The StarCraft II thread

[AGar]

AGar.777

I play 1v1 atm. Once I read up some good 2s strategy (and undo the fucking around I did in my placement matches) I'll play 2s. 3s and 4s are garbage.

[AGar]

RC, you should include gateways in there.

Also either I'm retarded or Shanba's account info is off.

[AGar]

It's Socke... There's an "e" at the end of that.

/nerdrant

(I frequent TL, for those wondering where the hell that came from).

I need to start playing again soon.

[AGar]

/in before idra's next tantrum.

Spoiler: Semi Rant

Ugh, I hate people like this.

I've known Idra for about a year and a half, coming up on two years now. I ran a money league back in early '09 that lured some of the better Brood War players in, including Idra, Strelok, Artosis, LzGamer, Machine, Yayba, Draco, and NonY (except Machine, Lz and NonY didn't qualify ). I will fight anyone to the death who dares dispute Idra's professionalism and actual manner. Yes, he can be a bit abrasive in certain games, and he has his moments. But his job for over two years now has been winning. Anything less to him is considered a failure. Rather than just assuming he was entitled to enter my league, he started things off by contacting me and asking if it was kosher. He then put up with extremely laggy connections with one player through multiple series. He was willing to work around our time schedules that we laid out, and patient with what he needed to do. He made a request that his replays from the ladder not be released if not necessary, but was willing to cope with it had I deemed it necessary. Aside from one small, contained incident, he was all pro in my dealings with him there. I then met him personally at WCG USA that October. Again, complete professionalism at it's finest. Willing to deal with anything reasonable and working with my requests. Completely mannered guy.

[AGar]

I then met him personally at WCG USA that October.

Omfg dude! WCG rocks! I went to WCG in 2004 when they had it in San Francisco. The Counter-Strike was intense! I don't believe they were playing Starcraft though, only WC3 Frozen Throne. Still though, it was awesome to see so many pro gamers and watch such high level competition.

Also, my friend won a free Audigy 2 ZS sound card and we all got free T-shirts, just because one of the staff overheard him yell "Motherboard audio SUCKS!!!". Yesssss, score.

StarCraft has been a part of WCG since the beginning of WCG. They were playing in 04. JulyZerg might've won gold that year, have to check.

E: Damn, wrong. XellOs. Perfect Terran. Seo Ji Hoon!

[AGar]

2011, they'll announce their circuit's schedule in January.

I'm going to try and go to several for coverage, for SC2 obv.

And RC - yeah, most likely. SC has always been one of the cornerstones of WCG.

[AGar]

Meadowlands was absent this past year, unfortunately.

[AGar]

HD and Husky should burn in the fiery pits of hell. ASAP.

[AGar]

Also whaddya think of this assessment:
Top Koreans > Top foreigners = mid level koreans > Mid level foreigners = mediocre koreans > mediocre foreigners

Are we talking about current represented skill or potential?

[AGar]

HD is leet, just thought I'd add

Yeah, that absolute lack of game knowledge that he spews is totally wicked.

-_-

Shanba, based on current performances, yes. The top koreans are better than the top foreigners who are then on par with mid-level koreans, and so on and so forth.

But in terms of potential, I'd say there are a lot of foreign players who, if in the right environment, have the ability to do greater things than most Koreans. The problem is two-fold:

1) The Korean culture is very xenophobic, thus leading to isolation often when foreign players travel to Korea, where the true tests are. Read about IdrA's or ret's experiences with eSTRO when they were Brood War progamers. The TL-oGs house recently is more of a success, and results are showing, obviously, with the performances of Liquid players. However, in the past, it has been very difficult for a foreign player to adapt into a scenario where he could be successful due to the social barriers.

2) Koreans look at SC as a potential job if they're good. An escape from poverty or a chance at a better life. Kind of how a kid in America looks at baseball or basketball or football. Foreigners for the most part always pick it up because it's a game. And it's fun. And hey, it'd be a cool way to make a living. But most of your guys traveling over there have a way to survive and live probably comfortably if they don't succeed. They're smart kids, they're young, and they have other opportunities outside of what they're doing.

[AGar]

I just played a 2 and a half hour game against someone.

I mean I couldve beaten him with brute force much earlier and shit, but I was watching a movie often times.

It was hilarious.

Also he was #1 in his division with like 2400 pts, and im like 30something with like 50 points but I WAS SLIGHTLY FAVORED.

although tbf I did win.

ITS JUST SO CONFUSING..??!??!!! I'll upload shit tomorrow.

It's something to do with Blizz's background hidden MMR that "favors" people.

Gamma: How much is the season ticket for GSL?

[AGar]

I'll probably buy for the next season, and the GSTL2.

[AGar]

foxer4lyf btw

I want flash to hurry up and have his sc1 contract expire so he can make the switch

Apparently he's having wrist issues - wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't make the switch ever.

Now Jaedong on the other hand... Oh man, if the Tyrant made the switch, I'd be so stoked.

[AGar]

So I've been messing around with other races since it can't demote me with the ladder about to end, and have discovered that I am terrrrrible at zerg.
Anyone play zerg and have some advice for spending minerals faster? I've been massing speedlings with my extra larva but it would probably be better to get a few extra queens and take risky expansions for the extra gas, maybe even get another hatch or two in my main/natural. Any suggestions?

Honestly if you want to absorb knowledge on Zerg macro, watch IdrA replays/his stream/VODs. He'll be the best point of information, the guy plays straight macro.

[AGar]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=208343

I'm just perusing this now, but this is a massive resource for anyone out there.

[AGar]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 48&start=0

[AGar]

I'm going to exploit my connections with the pros to get lessons for cheaps so I can crush you all at The Reckoning.

Or I'll just pester them on MSN until they tell me to fuck off.

One of these is more likely.

[AGar]

I think that honor belongs to me, tyvm. At least, for now it does.

[AGar]

[1] Well, to be fair, it's another full-length campaign (the same size as Wings of Liberty),[2] plus a bunch of multiplayer mods with new ladders for the [3] new units and buildings (lurkers, apparently). [4] I don't mind paying full price for it, especially since we won't even see it until Q1/Q2 2012.

[1] - Disagree. 20 missions are slated for HotS. WoL had 29. Brood War had 30 missions just as SC Vanilla did, but was roughly 1/2 the price. Paying full price for this is Blizzard testing their luck.
[2] - Doesn't make it a new game, these are just upgrades to B.net 2.0 that they could phase in without a new game (and probably should, to be fair).
[3] - Yes, but lurkers aren't confirmed afaik for HotS multiplayer, which is where it matters most to add/subtract units. Again, BW had 6 new units - 2 per race.
[4] - The time it takes Blizz to develop it shouldn't factor in.

---

I saw the TL coverage of the HotS event. I'm severely underwhelmed by what I've seen so far. I dunno, I'm anticipating the beta to see what we'll get out of it. Should be interesting, to say the least.

However, I think I'm gonna start playing again soon-ish. Once life figures itself out. Because I need to have that constant feeling of how terribad I am in my life again.

[AGar]

I have no idea where this idea that HotS will be a full priced game came from. Blizzard has stated multiple times that both expansions will be priced as expansions.

Mainly because initially Blizzard had hinted that you'd be paying the full retail price for a brand new game on all 3 games since the split was announced. Only recently have they stated "We will be pricing HotS and the other Protoss lame-o x-pac as expansions."

I'll buy it no matter what, but the justifications that were being used for full-price were wrong, imo.

Lurkers are confirmed not coming back, they never mentioned the defiler though so my wild pipe dream lives on.

Are they? Damn. That would be sick to see lurkers back.

[AGar]

I have no idea where this idea that HotS will be a full priced game came from. Blizzard has stated multiple times that both expansions will be priced as expansions.

Mainly because initially Blizzard had hinted that you'd be paying the full retail price for a brand new game on all 3 games since the split was announced. Only recently have they stated "We will be pricing HotS and the other Protoss lame-o x-pac as expansions."

I'll buy it no matter what, but the justifications that were being used for full-price were wrong, imo.

Except this is false. From the moment they announced that SCII would be a trilogy, it has been stated that the HotS and LotV will both be priced as expansions. They never initially hinted that you would be paying full retail price for all 3 games.

EDIT: http://www.starcraft-source.com/article ... ew/?id=261

They'll be priced appropriately to the content. Right now, the plans are to do something along the lines of a full single player campaign and some additional features to the multi-player side.

It'll obviously use the same engine; so that, to me, is an expansion price point.

If we decided to put in 3 new races and a bunch of new technology and features, maybe that would be a stand-alone product.

But right now, we're looking at much more of an expansion-like feature set.

This all from August, 2009.

Eh whatever. I know I wasn't the only one in the community under that impression, and I specifically remember talking to some friends about whether we'd drop $180 on it or not, and we all pretty much agreed we would solely because it was SC2.

[AGar]

I thought I totally /inned for that "We so bad" tournament.

[AGar]

I thought I totally /inned for that "We so bad" tournament.

You did, you're on the list.

Shwing.

And the format looks good.

E: If you want any side help, uhh.. gimme a yell and such.

[AGar]

Consider that several players may have relatively little concept of how to adapt their playstyle based on the map. So I don't think you can go very wrong with just a varied list of map styles.

This just amplifies the idea that JDodge has seemed to broadcast with the map pool - it'll be cool, fun and they're well known.

Also, is it worth considering Bo3 to at least try to lessen cheese for pool play, or is that just too many games... (and at this exact moment I'm thinking to myself I'm using way too many brain cells on a bronze/silver tournament).

Generally even a higher level tournament can get away with Bo1s for group play, although Bo3 is more appreciated in the non-Korean scene's players due to a high frequency of cheesy/all-in/odd "sniper" builds.

[AGar]

ABR... just do your placement matches ffs.

Also, I got wicked bored earlier.

[AGar]

But but... mine has a Friday reference...

[AGar]

Also, people (who aren't on WoW and therefore don't yet have it) should just add my RealID - NW.Thrash.Unreal@gmail.com

Then you'll be able to hound me while I'm not doing anything on WoW.

Or it's AGar.777

[AGar]

I have an idea...

[AGar]

Role distribution then using some of the trigger commands in the map editor I assume.

I'm actually a bit miffed I never thought of something similar in BW.

[AGar]

how do you go into a final ace match, for 15 grand, and think to yourself "man, I'm gonna six pool"

Quite simply.

"Man, I suck and he's good. I'm gonna six pool."

[AGar]

2 Things:

1. TaKe's Homestory Cup III looks epic as fuck. I wish I lived in Germany just to be at the bar he lives above.
2. Is anyone else doing Fantasy GSTL on TL? I figured we could make a MS group if anyone is.

[AGar]

Hey look, two good players and two mediocre-but-popular-because-they-try-and-emulate-Idra's-attitude type players.

[AGar]

@AGar : I fail to see where are the good players in those four ... (Vibe, DDE ?)

ViBE and dde aren't garbage like CrunCher and Destiny.

Starting a serious discussion : What do you think of the invasion of koreans in the western big events (like NASL Open) ? Is it good for the scene or will they deprive western players from valuable source of income ?
Keep in mind that only a few top NA/EU players are payed to train / make enough money of tournaments to make a living out of it.

1. You're wrong when you say that "only a few top NA/EU players are payed to train" Most top teams have the resources to pay their players decent salaries, and when the houses are formed, that alleviates some of the expenses.

2. Western players who have the income provided from their teams are not focusing enough on their gaming to be complaining about Korean's entering the fray. Look at Huk and Jinro. They aren't doing a weekly podcast that takes up two hours that could be spent practicing. And they aren't helping produce weekly shows. And they aren't casting some tournament on a weekly basis. What they are doing (well, Jinro's slumping right now) is destroying face in most tournaments they enter. Idra admits to only practicing really a few hours a day, because his mechanics are so incredibly refined from his 2 years in BW progaming houses where he was practicing for almost 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. And when he was doing that, he was raping face. Now? He's arguably still one of the best outside Korea, but the results don't show as much. The scene isn't fractured like it was in BW.

[AGar]

1. You're wrong when you say that "only a few top NA/EU players are payed to train" Most top teams have the resources to pay their players decent salaries, and when the houses are formed, that alleviates some of the expenses.

In France only MoMaN is paid to play starcraft 2 (and he is not the best player >>), insolence, Darkforce, Xlord aren't paid either. Grubby and ToD (former members of 4K) are still without teams and thus not paid. So far I know, EG fnatic, mouz, dignitas and TL (maybe coL now) have the resources to pay players on their roster a decent salary. Idra refused a scholarship to study physics to play starcraft ... he will probably regret it.

EG, FnaticMSI, mousesports, ESC, TL, compLexity, sixjax, dignitas - just to name a few offhand that I know are paying something to their players.

IdrA is making a comfortable living with EG, and will for a decent amount of time. Who knows what he'll do after this, but I doubt he's going to be miserably poor off after his tenure in progaming ends.

Grubby has his own team right now, "Team Grubby" and SteelSeries is sponsoring him, which means he's probably getting enough to live on. He doesn't have to pay the excess that some of the larger organizations need to in order to sustain his team, so he's set.

White-Ra's salary is above average for Ukraine (this is pre-Duckload/Thermaltake) and he was living comfortably on that.

My guess is mTw also probably makes enough, at least some of their players. I don't know their roster offhand.

And houses are a korean concept, it's not really applicable outside, mostly because anyone with a ego would refuse to spend a miserable life playing 12 hours getting crushed by teammates until they can manage to qualify for a tournament ... that's also a reason why players like MC switched over to SC2.

This is relevant how? In NA, NASL is running a season that lasts roughly 15 weeks (let's just say 4 months). MLG appears once every two months. Other LANs are appearing regularly, all with significant prize pools. Every player (well, most every player) that played at DreamHack probably didn't pay much, if anything, to get there and only had minimal expenses. This means you have numerous opportunities to make decent money, even outside of Korea. Living in a house with other progamers (You could fit 6 in a 3 BR house, 9 if you really want to push it and the players are dedicated to this) alleviates some living expenses and gives you extremely valuable resources. And if this is your job and your living, be willing to put 40 solid hours into it, maybe even more. If I had the talent and was getting paid for this, I'd sure as hell be putting in the time. There isn't a single player outside of Korea who has any good reason to have an ego about themselves right now, and none of them should be bitching about "Koreans invading the scene." Work for it, dammit.

cruncher and destiny aren't garbage

They're decent players. But the only reason they're relevant to anyone is because they try and emulate IdrA's borderline unprofessionalism and rudeness. Cruncher's biggest claim to fame is a mediocre run in TSL3, beating IdrA (significant) and Mondragon (insignificant T_T). And the IdrA games can be more attributed to "IdrA, stop being an arrogant ass all the time," than CrunCher exhibiting a lot of talent. Destiny hasn't done anything worth noting yet.

[AGar]

Updated the master table. Several people have noted playing/having accounts but haven't given up the goods. List at the bottom.

Mafiascum Name	Starcraft II Name	Starcraft II ID	Non-NA Server
AGar	AGar	#777
Albert B. Rampage	Rampage	#295
Claus	PatoArmado	#451
DeathRowKitty	GhostFrog	#104
DTMaster	DTMaster	#595
Fate	Fate	#257
Flameaxe	Buhbuhbam	#884
Gammagooey	Gamma	#853
Iecerint	Iecerint	#713
JDodge	hallucinogen	#324
kiwieagle	kiwithefruit	#504
Llamarble	llamarble	#198
Moratorium	moratorium	#246
Morthas	Morthas	#861	EU
Papa Zito	PapaZito	#836
pickemgenius	pickemgenius	#577
Quagmire	ChipperPear	#134
scotmany12	ejcraw	#253
SaintKerrigan	StKerrigan	#662
Nuwen	Nuwen	#294
Shanba	Shanba	#743	EU
TheButtonMen	TheButtonMen	#659
TheGunslinger	Marksman	#977
VisMaior	legallyBlind	#469	EU
xRECKONERx	reckonerX	#447
Zyrconium	Zyrconium	#398	EU

KoC
Cyberbob
Gandalf
DeathNote
bv (?)
moospiker
Tanstalas
UltimaAvalon

[AGar]

If SC2Ranks wasn't shitting itself, we can make a custom "division."

E: It works, making the division now. Link soon.

[AGar]

http://sc2ranks.com/c/9911/mafiascum/

Everyone is in there, but if you haven't played your placement matches, you won't show up yet.

[AGar]

Updated the table.

[AGar]

Yeah NA has been down for the day. Ladder locks and other stuff I assume.

[AGar]

BTW, for Season 3, does anyone want to work on 2s? I'm actually going to try and get good at this game for some reason.

Partner race preference is Z > P >>>>>> T. I'm looking to play T.

[AGar]

My goal is to advance past Bronze. Hopefully.

[AGar]

I'd be down for that.

[AGar]

For a mouse, I have the Steelseries Kinzu. I got it for like $20 when Newegg had a deal on it but it's still pretty cheap normally. Really good though.

If I ever get the cash to build a gaming tower and some peripherals (lolyearite) I'm going to get the 7G. Pricy, but I've used one before and it's wicked slick.

[AGar]

Kinzu is wired. Check Newegg, they might have it cheap.

[AGar]

it's not the stage...

- It's Day[9]'s microphone not leveled to where he's constantly saturating the mic as he yells into it
- It's the main camera appearing to be operated by Micheal J. Fox, no one thought to invest in a tripod.
- It's Tasteless having to tell the observer every five minutes to look at something important happening
- It's the crazy awkward interviews
- It's the audio being mis-balanced where for the first half day your right speaker was twice the volume of your left
- It's "hey is your mic on? I don't think my mic's on"
- It's the plywood booths that look like they were made in shop class, which are too small (I thought Sheth was going to die in there).
- It's not setting players to busy and Alive having to stop a match because people on the internet were messaging him telling him what the opponent was doing
- It's the projectors apparently being misaligned and so the shots up on the screens for the audience were crooked
- It's the 30 minute gaps between matches
- It's the players not being ready despite those gaps and the announcers having to fill waaaayyy too much time

At the end of the day, it's a bunch of starcraft matches. If you want to see a bunch of starcraft matches, great, here's a bunch right here. But there's a bajillion tournaments now, I can see tons of quality matches between quality players. The inbetween stuff is actually more important to me now, I want to see the good hype and the quality production. And knowing that new viewers will maybe come watch the NASL, think "what's this rinkydink circus show", and be turned off from watching any other events, it sucks, I'd rather this just not exist. It's an embarrassment. GSL is awesome. Dreamhack was awesome. MLG has taken huge leaps and is now awesome. Hell, Homestory 3, a tournament run in an APARTMENT ABOVE A BAR, was head and shoulders far beyond awesome.

NASL is some kids who suckered someone into investing into "that e-sports thing" for the prize pool, and not knowing how to put a production together, much less a live final.

Players are well beyond capable of turning on DND. The administrators shouldn't have to hold their hands, and where is Blizzard's "major tournament LAN copy" that's been promised? Same for them not being ready, these players are all grownups. The booths are a result of not having unlimited funding. They aren't cheap, and as far as I know, WCG USA

still

doesn't have them. Did you buy a pass? Do you have the pocket cash to run one of these things better? Because not for nothing, these things aren't cheap to put together. The venue, the equipment - it all costs a LOT of money.

GSL has sponsors that literally put hundreds of thousands of dollars into pre-designed infrastructure (that GSL studio? That's been up for roughly 3 and a half years now, and was constructed by people who had been in the industry for as long as 8 years prior). Dreamhack and MLG have been around the block for a very long time (and still have duds, hello Dallas). Homestory 3? That had ESL's backing written ALL over it.

NASL is being run by, believe it or not, people who actually do know what they're doing. Xeris has been around the block so many times, and run so many successful tournaments, that this is literally just a small nick on his resume, assuming it isn't fixed up for the rest of the weekend (which a lot of the things that CAN be fixed will be). This production is far from perfect, but it's the first time these guys have done something this big

without

major corporate backing like the rest of the leagues that you cited have. Mistakes will be made, and things won't be perfect.

I have experience running moderate sized events in BW. THINGS WILL HAPPEN. It's not a "Well maybe we'll get lucky and have the perfect storm." No. Shit happens. Did you SEE MLG Dallas? GSL spent 3 seasons running a wonked format before fixing it up. OSL, arguably the premier Brood War league in Korea, auto-lossed a player because they typed an extra p while requesting a pause (ppp instead of pp) - because they couldn't see their screen I believe. WCG USA - an event that has been running for 10 years now I believe - is still one of the poorest and most terribly run events in all of esports. If I had a nickel for every time an major tournament - online or off - had some unexpected problem arise, then I'd be filthy fucking rich. TSL is probably the ONLY SCBW/SC2 tournament that I can think of that had a nearly flawless first run.

So until you start running premier level leagues with 0 flaws, lay off the people who have been doing it for over half a decade and do most of this purely out of their love for the game and suggesting that it'd be better off not existing.

[AGar]

No, my reaction is "I've been in their situation, chill or run your own event."

Everyone jumping down their throats about shit is ridiculous. Yes, they made some big mistakes. No, I haven't seen you do fuckall for the SC2 community.

Your big thing is "Well MLG and Dreamhack are soooo much better." MLG has been around since 2002. DreamHack? It started in 1994. MLG has sponsorship from major American corporations who are in day-to-day life. Dr. Pepper, Sony, Stride, Bic - these are all massive corporations with money to throw around like candy. Who does NASL have? Some mystery investor and iBuyPower.com.

It's really really easy to throw this stuff at them from the comfort of your own living room. It's a whole different ballgame to be in the hotseat and have something catastrophic go wrong, and have to deal with that kind of pressure.

[AGar]

Saying "I haven't seen you do better" is an illegitimate excuse if not just because we as fans still have the right to judge on that basis

I'm not saying he can't criticize. In fact, I even said there were some huge mistakes in that production.

What I was saying was he has no right to suggest they should just pack it in and he would "rather this just not exist," if he's not doing anything himself.

Some of those issues are obvious flaws - and the biggest was the sound, yes. Something tells me they have some amateur who had a soundboard in his basement running it, because I do know - and am shocked slightly that they'd be this foolish - that NASL turned down people who volunteered to do some of the more technical jobs (like the sound) for free.

The players not being ready is just a matter of them being like "Look, either you're fucking ready on time or your DQ'd. Plain and simple."

NASL had it's flaws, and the first season was not what most people expected. I expected a lot better from them, especially given the people that they have on board. But anyone suggesting that we'd be better off without a major tournament or league existing because of an initial bad run is a

fucking idiot.

[AGar]

I'm biased, but yes I disagree. I've seen people who watched BW tournaments that had absolute shit quality production and still get pulled in, so I don't think it's as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be.

[AGar]

I'm biased, but yes I disagree. I've seen people who watched BW tournaments that had absolute shit quality production and still get pulled in, so I don't think it's as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be.

are you aware of the difference in viewing numbers between brood war and sc2?

No not at all

I'm also aware that people are mire likely to be intrigued by good games than bells and whistles.

[AGar]

God.

He hates you.

[AGar]

Except I was going for a forge expand and there is no ramp in Shattered Temple. I would have lost against any kind of early pressure, and I'm not even talking about early pool

Being able to pull off a good forge FE or a 3 Gate Expand for PvZ on any map is something I need to be able to do.

If you're playing to improve, you will also realize when a build just isn't going to work on a map, and putting yourself in a position to lose to

any

early pressure is generally not a good idea to do. I get you're trying to improve your mechanics yadda yadda, but yeah. Not a good idea.

[AGar]

Sooo are we gonna do the whole

1) Play our placement matches at a similar time
2) Start a small group for serious practice

things?

[AGar]

I'm free sporadically with my time. For placement matches, I'm free tomorrow save for 5 PM - 830 PM EDT, and Wednesday any time before 10 PM EDT. After that, idk. Again, job issues may free up my time this week. We shall see.

[AGar]

Last I knew, it was the 19th... did they push it back?

[AGar]

Aight, well I guess I'll just practice up this week. Dunno my schedule for next week yet. Hm.

Also still looking to do 2s semi-seriously, if anyone's interested?

[AGar]

You'd be playing Terran, no?

[AGar]

Maybe go for Terran/Random hehehe.

[AGar]

I'll be hitting you up soon.

[AGar]

[AGar]

It really depends. He's said before he's aiming to try and improve his mechanics, so winrate isn't everything right now.

[AGar]

I hate you.

[AGar]

I still hate you.

[AGar]

HEY RECKONER REMEMBER WHEN I SENT YOU AN IM SAYING I WAS GONNA NAP AND THEN NAPPED.

I WOKE UP THIS MORNING

seriously, i hadn't slept since I grabbed a few hours during the afternoon sunday. and i'm fucking terrible too. this whole agar playing zerg thing is going to be interesting

[AGar]

I hate you.

No hearts.

And yeah... it should be hilarious when we do this Reck, I won't lie.

[AGar]

Try looking into a speedling expand if you need better map control.

[AGar]

It could just be that he wants to lose strategically so that he can stay in Bronze and achieve the fastest possible wins/time ratio because he wants the Dark Voice avatar.

No, I'm not like that. It's just Protoss == Forcefields. A force field in the ramp = 6 lings trapped or 1 roach trapped. Which one is better ? That's why I am doing a 7RR rather than speedling. I can tech and expand during the first zealot kill

Why are your 6 speedlings getting trapped up your ramp?

If you're doing a speedling expand, you should have 1 ling at his choke and the rest of yours nearby so that if he tries to push, you can stop droning and start producing lings while you bring in your control group of initial lings to flank his forces. Or are you getting cheesed here? In which case, scouting.

The only things I can think of here is either a) you're misunderstanding what to be doing if you're doing a speedling expand (those lings shouldn't be left at home) or b) you're getting lolfacerolled on maps with close spawning positions, in which case, that's going to happen at the low levels, and until you feel comfortable enough to vary your build orders in that matchup to the point where you have a build for the larger maps and a build prepared for smaller maps.

[AGar]

Well.. yeah.

[AGar]

DOES ANYONE STILL PLAY BROODWAR.

I would if there was anyone else to play with

[AGar]

I was forever D- on Iccup lol.

Unfortunately, I'm on a mac, so I can't play with Chaos/Icc launchers and I can only access US East/West I think.

[AGar]

Proleague/OSL/MSL
Broodwar
Anyone follow?
Cj vs. Kt starts really soooon

I do.

(-_-) forever.

[AGar]

I'll still watch the VODs and read the hype pieces but other than that, its meh to me now.

[AGar]

Or you could just make marines.

[AGar]

I guess I'm in the minority being glad that Metalopolis is gone. From a viewer perspective I'm sick of the map pools not rotating, partially because ladder maps don't rotation with any frequency that is decent.

[AGar]

Metalopolis has a serious balance problem (close position), plus it's one of the oldest map and honestly not the most fun to play at all.

Slag Pits, Scrap Station and Delta Quadrant had to be removed. They are all utterly stupid.

Anyone with half a brain was using Metalopolis 1.1 which was fixed to prevent close spawning positions.

Metalopolis was the first Python-like map of SC2. Moderately balanced across lower tiers and the lower echelons of serious competitors, and it produced macro games out the asshole. The map is designed inherently for longer economical games as opposed to innovative and clever strategies.

[AGar]

I'd much rather they brought back Blue Storm yo.

[AGar]

With close spawns removed, Zerg could potentially hold 5 very easy bases without even getting the high yield if they spawn close-by-air with their opponent. If they're half-decent at expanding their creep, they can control half of the map with minimal effort and lots of speed with which to defend their bases. Add in that they can fairly easily get a gold base and you have a 6-base Zerg that can be REALLY fucking scary.

[AGar]

Liquid picks up Sheth... there must be something there that I'm not seeing. Hm.

AGar's Predictions for Anaheim.

- DRG puts up 2 wins max in his group. Nerves get the better of him here. Huk 3, maybe 4. NaNi takes it.
- Sheth bombs his group.
- Machine shocks the hell out of everyone, top 3 in his group.
- Tyler bows out early.
- Alicia - in LB before 4th round of upper bracket play, eliminated within 2 rounds of that.
- IdrA top 2.

[AGar]

Idra is going to have benefitted most from EG's boot-camping. His mechanics are drilled into his head from 14-hour practice sessions in the CJ house for a year. Ideally, he would have focused on working out new strategies and analyzing holes in his other aspects of play (scouting, timings, unit compositions). Whereas the rest of the team is going to have to still hone in on mechanics moreso than he will while also working out things like this.

[AGar]

Machine.
PRACTICE MACHINE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpM0wPKBOro

I don't get how Machine couldn't know that Carmac speaks a excellent english. This guy has a pretty important position in the ESL It's a requirement for his job.
Or it's just a setup and that's not funny

Carmac's baby is IEM. Machine didn't make the cut for IEM last year. Not surprising at all.

[AGar]

Sooo MVP and Bomber invited to Raleigh.

MMA probably won't get an invite again, (it'll likely be 2 Code A/Code B players now). Hopefully SlayerS can send him out - he's seeded 2nd in MLG now.

MVP getting invited bumps Sheth into the pools now, since MVP was the 8th seeded player after Anaheim. coL will probably try and send DRG, try and get him more points for NCs, since right now he has to fight through the Open Bracket.

Pools looking good so far:

Group A

[P] NaNiWa
[T] SjoW
[P] Huk
[Z] Sheth
[T] Bomber^

Group B

[T] MMA
[T] SeleCT
[P] iNcontroL
[T] BoxeR
[T] MVP^

Group C

[Z] IdrA
[Z] Ret
[Z] HayprO
[P] Socke
Korean Invite #3

Group D

[Z] SLush
[P] KiWiKaKi
[Z] LosirA*
[T] TLO
Korean Invite #4

* - Guessing he probably won't come out, seeing as IM didn't send him out to Anaheim.
^ - Guessing their approximate pool placement.

If LosirA doesn't show, that would move mOoNan into group play, and put BoxeR into IdrA's group again.

P-Edit: Otolia, the system is to protect the top players who consistently come out to MLG. You need to stop looking at MLG as just 6 separate tournaments and start looking at it as a circuit, culminating in the NCs in November. MLG needs to build "stars" of their league in order to make it marketable, and they don't actually benefit long-term by all of these Koreans coming out for 1-2 events. Also, the Koreans coming out in rotations screws up the way the system is intended to work, as these players might actually be putting up respectable results OR the foreign players who make an impact might actually be making deep enough runs from the Open Bracket to actually get a chunk of rank points. The problem is several players had outstanding performances at Dallas, and then come Columbus, the league exchange program came into play, delaying the amount of time it would take for any of them to actually fall.

[AGar]

Also, Ret will probably refuse a Code A spot as well, he's already tried his hand at it.

[AGar]

I thought no Losire in Anaheim because of GSL.

Oh, I didn't think of that. Hmmm.

I think the brackets should be more like the up/down matches, where the people who do worst in their pools are forced to play open bracket, etc. Because I just don't like the system where you can not win a match in pool play and yet still get auto-seeded into pools for the next tournament.

There is no "right" solution. The Koreans sweeping the top spots mean that players only gain/lose 30ish points on each other usually. The pools wouldn't be

that

different if the Koreans weren't playing, but they'd be moving. Also, the system works better when there are more events, as the changes are more frequent. Assuming that Sundance gets his 100,000 subscriptions (I had made an awesome post that apparently didn't process on TL, but it boils down to - trade in some old fucking games and buy a gold subscription dammit, for ESPORTS), he's said something along the lines of 24 live events. Even if 10-12 of them are in an NA circuit, that still gives a lot more events for movement to happen and the pool system all of the sudden serves the purpose it's fully intended to.

[AGar]

MMA is ranked second in rank points right now. Unless MLG isn't telling anyone that - but they don't have the Rank Points published anywhere.

[AGar]

I want to, but there's no way I can justify dropping the cash and work time just to spectate an event. If I was still with an esports news site, I'd totally be there.

[AGar]

I GUESS SO.

(I'll also be at Providence unless things go terribly, terribly wrong).

[AGar]

What site?

And do they need a coverage writer maybe by chance please?

[AGar]

Hahahahahaha really? That's awesome.

[AGar]

Kinetic, what site are you writing for that you're trying to get a press pass for Orlando?

[AGar]

Not 'big' organizations, as I could've secured one last season for the site I wrote for. They generally (and all ESPORTS events usually) require you to be with a website that at least updates content regularly, however, and hence my assumption that you were with a site.

@Raleigh Scummers: How close are you guys to the Raleigh venue/could I potentially maybe borrow a couch for a few days?

[AGar]

Hmm. Awesome, gonna make the decision next week.

[AGar]

Generally the series was awesome. Game 3 was ridiculously good too.

[AGar]

The grand final is going to be epic as hell.

[AGar]

NaNiWa's attitude as a competitor is what so many more people in this damn scene need.

"There can only be one champion."

That hunger, that desire - that's something more players need.

[AGar]

Idra isn't the same in my opinion. Idra is seemingly satisfied with his performances up until recently. Naniwa isn't satisfied until he's #1. Idra also has a habit of not staying games he feels are out of his reach, which he admitted as being a fault, but comes from his BW training where games were much less open to comebacks by the time he was fully enthralled in the CJ team life.

[AGar]

Latin American Invitational is now, CatZ vs. KT.Kapoch. JP/Day[9] casting.

[AGar]

Watch

Reason vs. Capoch G2 on Shakuras Plateau

if you want a lesson on what not to do against Zerg as Protoss.

[AGar]

Because it still needed to be done, and the NA one is Friday-Saturday.

[AGar]

[quote="AGar"]Updated the master table. Several people have noted playing/having accounts but haven't given up the goods. List at the bottom.

Mafiascum Name	Starcraft II Name	Starcraft II ID	Non-NA Server
AGar	AGar	#777
Albert B. Rampage	Rampage	#295
Claus	PatoArmado	#451
DeathRowKitty	GhostFrog	#104
DTMaster	DTMaster	#595
Fate	Fate	#257
Flameaxe	Buhbuhbam	#884
Gammagooey	Gamma	#853
Iecerint	Iecerint	#713
JDodge	hallucinogen	#324
Kinetic	Kinetic	#917
kiwieagle	kiwithefruit	#504
Knight of Cydonia	Mentlegen	#664
Llamarble	llamarble	#198
Moratorium	moratorium	#246
Morthas	Morthas	#861	EU
Papa Zito	PapaZito	#836
pickemgenius	pickemgenius	#577
Quagmire	ChipperPear	#134
scotmany12	ejcraw	#253
SaintKerrigan	StKerrigan	#662
Nuwen	Nuwen	#294
Shanba	Shanba	#743	EU
TheButtonMen	TheButtonMen	#659
TheGunslinger	Marksman	#977
TOGTFO	Iowa	588
VisMaior	legallyBlind	#469	EU
xRECKONERx	reckonerX	#447
Zyrconium	Zyrconium	#398	EU

I'll update the SC2Ranks page some time eventually.

Also, new keyboard comes tomorrow wheeee.

[AGar]

Woah. Koreans withdrew from NASL. Wow.

[AGar]

N, unfortunately. Money didn't work out the way I had planned.

MVP isn't going btw.

[AGar]

Yeah. Think it has to do with Code S maybe.

[AGar]

The HuK acquisition is apparently extremely likely. First off, HuK's contract is inside the 2-month window with TL I believe, assuming they lock down on 1-year contracts. EG's likely acquiring him via a transfer fee.

But I reeeeealllly doubt this is the only thing they're going after.

The Korea house is unlikely - they tried that. Plus, they just got the house in Arizona, which they've set up and gotten finalized, I doubt they're just going to back out on that now.

Also, we're inside the 5 hour mark.

[AGar]

Huk to EG.

IdrA, HuK & Puma to Korea sekrit locashunzzz.

I am slightly disappointed that this is it.

[AGar]

Yeah, there's gotta be more to this.

[AGar]

P. Sure that is Reck, yeah.

[AGar]

hahahahaha that was hilarious.

[AGar]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=262907

- I don't care that I'm terrible.
- I don't care that I have work that night at 10 PM and would have to sacrifice sleep
- I don't care that I'd likely have to tether my phone to my computer for a usable internet connection.

WE NEED TO GET A TEAM TOGETHER.

THE TEAM:

1. AGar (T)
2. Gamma (P)
3. DRK (Z)
4. xRECKONERx (T)
5.* Kinetic (P)

[AGar]

Vent? I can run Vent + SC2 on my macbook. And no offense to TL, but I have a Vent server and this'd be the perfect reason to use it.

[AGar]

WELL YOUR AVATAR IS A BANELING SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW.

[AGar]

WHAT IS THIS TALK OF HAVING FUN WITH STARCRAFT II

4v4 TL Open.
SATURDAY.
NOON EST.

WE NEED 1.

[AGar]

Kinetic, I'll add you as a backup in case one of us needs to drop for whatever reason.

[AGar]

6 POOL.
You make 6 pools, right?

RIGHT?

[AGar]

SK TERRAN.
ALL DAY.
ERR DAY.

[AGar]

Eraser trick was baller as shit and you know it.

[AGar]

Exactly!

[AGar]

Trololol kill your own units to use me is best.

[AGar]

Pm me those links son.

[AGar]

Huzzah thanks buttons.

[AGar]

The only way I'll accept Lurkers being brought back is if I can use the HP Lurkers trick again.

[AGar]

I just idra gg'ed a won game...wow.
NAPTIME

You are one step closer to being a professional.

[AGar]

I'll 7 Rax.
AGar can rush to Thors.
DRK can 6 pool.
Gamma can

cannon rush

proxy gate.

Sound good?

I like this.

[AGar]

WHERE ARE YOU GAIIIISS (Starts in 40 minutes).

[AGar]

I'll upload the replay lol give me a sec.

14cc in 4v4 is not viable.

[AGar]

i can't find you guys in the bracket

my TL handle is vx70GTOJudgexv, but yeah.

[AGar]

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/12900

[AGar]

I lost track of everything going on lol.

[AGar]

lolol yeah. well.. I was making mules.

[AGar]

Negatory. I might potentially be at IEM however. TBD still.

[AGar]

No, it is. Thorzain has been living in Korea for a month or so now.

[AGar]

Otolia, you have no clue about anything when it comes to how this industry works. Just saying.

[AGar]

Otolia, you have no clue about anything when it comes to how this industry works. Just saying.

Maybe, but from where I stand it doesn't please me. And I have the rights to be vocal about it. It is also a reason I choose a pure science university instead of an engineering school. On a side note, the relation to money in France is as bad (maybe even worse) as the relation to sex in the US.

The fact of the matter is, coL provides better support globally as opposed to [M] and by waiting for an announcement to be prepared by [M] (who is likely to be apathetic themselves in regards to the situation since they are losing a player), they simply force themselves to delay getting the most out of their player. {Side-note: MLG provides more than just prize pool. It is a major sponsorship boost to say that your players will potentially be viewed in their uniforms by hundreds of thousands of people spanning the globe.}

First, while mouz is a fine team, and I remember them from the WC3 days, CoL is a major market international team. Some people don't feel the CoL/MVP deal is a big deal, but it is. Not to mention CoL is in more games than just SC2 and that brings stability. mouz just doesn't have that.

mouz have players in CS, CSS, PES, Fifa, SC2 and one irrelevant game (lol) and better SC2 players
coL have HoN, LoL (no comment), SC2, Halo ( ) and two irrelevant game.

Col has a partnership with MVP, has been around for 8+ years, has major sponsorship support in Creative & Qpad namely, has a dedicated staff in jlake (who at points was pretty much putting himself into bankruptcy in order to run his team iirc) and keeping their rosters in games like HoN, LoL (the bigger market game atm) and Halo (which is still a big deal in MLG) gives them the ability to KEEP sponsors on board.

Mouz is a good team, and has decent-ish support, but still seems to think this is Brood War with the minimal support their players seem to get.

[AGar]

JLake was the lawyer I believe.

Also, Millenium is playing with fire here.

Col is one of the teams that will bash their face in with that legally binding contract, and yeah..

Stephano and Mill are fucked.

[AGar]

Kinetic since you're a law student, I'm going to throw this post your way to see if you may know the answer or not:

The last issue here is enforceability. If the contract is deemed legal by the Texan judge (which is very likely), and the French judge deems it an illegal employment contract (which is also very likely), then the contract will be null on French soil. What can be done if, and when, Stephano sets foot in the US, is another matter.

Since you seem to be one of the very few here with a basic idea what they are talking about (sorry about the borderline insult, but wtf why does everyone feels he is qualified to talk legal when obviously 99% of the users here have never, ever studied law in the details required to comprehend the situation in questions?):

Do you know if there are any bilateral agreements between France and the US regarding the enforcement of employment contracts? Because, even though I agree with you on the principal matter, if such agreements exist, those could possibly overrule the fact that French courts would have to apply French Law. In other words, if a bilateral agreement states that France has to enforce certain (!) US-court-decisions, then it doesn't matter at all if the contract violates French employment Law. All that the French court was allowed to verify in this case would be if the US decision is indeed a valid one (not forged/etc.).

[AGar]

lololol that sounds like a great time. what're you talking about?

[AGar]

I'll update the table when I get home.

[AGar]

Spoiler: Arena of Legends Spoiler

Holy shit MKP won something.

Also lol @ the people bitching about MKP being a one-trick pony relying on timing attacks... They're gonna fucking cry when fOrGG starts ripping people apart.

[AGar]

IPL has begun. I thought Stephano would choke but he beat HuK 2-0, and is now playing aLive.

Edit : Well, we now have the confirmation that marines are good against mass lings. I never thought Stephano would try this ladder strategy on aLive he lost to during the#2 qualifier.

Honestly, I could see a few players bombing/fucking around on the pool stages to avoid stronger players in the actual elimination bracket. It's something well known as a Korean tactic in WCG to play either foolish strategies or all-in repeatedly to avoid playing fellow Koreans earlier than the quarterfinals and/or semifinals of the bracket.

[AGar]

Apparently I missed a shitstorm with IPL yesterday.

[AGar]

Wow... the IdrA thing isn't all that shocking. Kind of a junk format by IPL to be honest.

[AGar]

I saw. I so want to see those games.

[AGar]

People need to learn the definition of choking. Losing to a 3-time Code-S finalist isn't exactly choking. IdrA winning would've been an upset if anything.

[AGar]

Dude. Kong line.

(Also, if you think TLO is still good, you're really just off in your judgments of a lot of players in this tournament).

[AGar]

Sundance is moving the schedule around so IdrA-BoxeR will be on main stage.

[AGar]

Oh my god boxer....

[AGar]

Sweeping your pool, including 2-0 wins against Boxer and TLO, then losing to MKP, who hasn't exactly been on fire recently, coming off the back of a win at IEM Guangzhou... I dunno, man.

beating losira, trickster, mma, and drg to win AoL counts as not being on fire recently?

wat

Kong line.

[AGar]

Actually, I regret nothing. He still made a mistake long-term. Also, I don't see why everyone loves this kid, he's literally playing for a year and then bouncing, as I've seen from interviews and articles. Congratulations, money that just directly exits the scene. Worst thing that happens to esports right there.

[AGar]

I saw. I also shit on someone in the TL thread who said BW had shitty graphics lol.

[AGar]

What do you mean by money existing the scene ?

First off, teams all take a cut of the prize money from their players. It's how they remain profitable and run their organizations.

To some extent, money made by players returns to the scene in the form of them making a living off of it, spending it on entry to larger tournaments like MLG or IPL qualifiers, spending it on travel to tournaments. It doesn't directly go back into the tournament organizers' pockets, but they continue to appear at events

because

they won the money, and if they keep winning, they keep showing up. This in turn lures in sponsors who say "Oh wow, IdrA, Stephano, MMA, BoxeR? These guys will ALL be at your tournament? Ok, here's some cash." (dramatization, but some of the idea behind it essentially). People watch these players. Stephano has HUGE pull. He can pull in viewers easily. So he has great value to organizers as long as he keeps winning. But his money that he wins will not continue his career, or be spent on things related to his career. He will disappear soon, and along with him goes all the return value on that money he won.

As a former tournament organizer who was straining to get sponsorships in the BW days to lure in players, I do hold a grudge to some extent, as he is basically wasting all of their time. His slot will be empty while some other player could be making a name for himself long-term that could help generally grow esports.

Unrelated, IdrA really needs a week or two off here, his jetlag is his undoing.

[AGar]

Idra declined a physics scholarship... and you think that's an insult? That is a horrible way to look at it. He pursued his dream instead of something he wanted to do as a back up and as a result, someone who wanted a scholarship but wouldn't have gotten one instead got a scholarship in physics. They don't just disappear you know...

From my point of view : Physics >> Everything else. That's a completely personal appreciation and is more based on feelings than real arguments.

Think of it this way: Because Greg declined the scholarship, another student more passionate about physics and more likely to be committed to it got a chance to study the field he probably wanted rather than someone like Greg (and I mean this next bit as no sleight to him) taking the scholarship, not putting 100% into it while also trying to maintain a presence as a progamer (he was already putting a decent amount into it when he was first heading to eSTRO, and likely would've continued to balance the two lifestyles in college) and likely either burnt out of the program or not gotten the most out of the scholarship.

Also, RPI isn't some 'WONDEROUS' university... It's not like he rejected MIT or something.

[AGar]

Really.. I can't even afford to finish out my education after 2 years and am saddled paying back $29,000 in Student Loans without any degree to show... we all have monies problems.

[AGar]

You have to admit that it's a little bit annoying to see that someone who could be sustained to study for a real job choose an entertainment career instead.

IdrA makes more in a month than I make in 3 months BEFORE you factor in tournament winnings or the value of his equipment that he's consistently loaded up with. I'm pretty sure he's got a "real job" lined up for a nice while, and - given the way things look, optimistically - will be able to sustain himself in an acceptable manner for a long period of time after he hangs up the mouse and keyboard.

E: And this is my last post for the weekend. Off I go to get belligerently drunk.

[AGar]

God that series was amazing. Iris was one of the few Terrans that could hang with Ma Bonjwa at his prime. Watch G1-G4 if you haven't yet. (And thanks for the Korean link lol)

[AGar]

More people should get BW

(I'm also down for SC2 whenever, just hit me up on AIM)

[AGar]

Drunk SC2 is the best SC2.

[AGar]

afaik WCG korea doesnt count as a starleague so MKP could win it and still be part of the kong line (I think)

Yes.

[AGar]

I thought it was a joke that he's completely fallen off the map.

[AGar]

<3 HiyA. I really want to see him end up on a BW team, not transition to SC2.

Also, fOrGG. Wow.

[AGar]

Yep.

But.

BW4Lyfe.

[AGar]

How is forGG any different from one of the many goods terrans out there ?

I don't think you understand. A player who just picked up the game inside of the past 3-4 months just demolished a player who not only has been active in the scene for over a year now, and is considered one of the better Protoss players out there. And he got dismantled. With near perfect mechanics and execution.

And fOrGG, while an MSL champion, is one of the lesser BW pros.

Pretty much everyone should be very afraid.

[AGar]

Remember, the first recognized "bonjwa" Boxer, didn't arrive until about 2001-2002, about 3 years after SC and BW had been first put on sale. The scene had plenty of time to develop before a clear "favorite" showed itself. I don't believe it will take that long for an SC2 bonjwa, but to expect one before Legacy is dropped would be rather premature.

1. BoxeR was not known as "bonjwa" during his reign. Bonjwa started and ended with MJY, and was retroactively applied to BoxeR, NaDa and oov. Even now, Flash is simply referred to as God Young Ho, and not bonjwa, although he displays a dominance that parallels theirs.
2. BW's pro-scene only started in late 99, and BoxeR was a force in early 2001, if you only look at OSL/MSL.
3. BW's pro-scene started from scratch. The SC2 pro-scene is somewhat of a carryover from BW in many ways, and has much of the infrastructure and overarching concepts (macro, multitasking) coming over pre-developed.

Second, the "limit" on "hard-skill" is lower in SC2, allowing more strategic play to surface. Because of this, players from BW who were so good because their hard skills were so far ahead of everyone else won't be as far ahead. That isn't to say those aspects aren't important, hell Fin(forGG) vs Sage shows that we still haven't quite met that limit yet. But everyone, from the top pros to the lowest Bronze player admits that SC2 is "easier" than SC1. Just change rally points in SC2 compared to SC1.

hird, SC2 requires slightly different skill sets and rewards different skills. If SC1 were 60% practiced skills and 40% strategy (numbers out my ass) than SC2 is more like 60% strategy and 40% practiced skill. Players who did well in SC1 will still do well in SC2, but there is room for new players who have talents more aligned to SC2 to rise up.

There will be cookie-cutter pros that do not hold up as well, as their mechanics will not overpower. But to think that most of the top tier pros are going to fail because it is 60/40 instead of 40/60 is foolish. The top players (basically Top 8-16 in MSL/OSL) execute on a strategic level far above the rest of the field, who rely solely on mechanics. If anything, this will only benefit these players. A player like Flash, or Bisu, or Jaedong, or even someone lesser-known like Calm or Mind, will prevail even moreso because they have to focus less time on honing absolute 100% perfect mechanics and can spend more time focusing on strategic improvements. But eventually - like BW - SC2 will hit a point of climax, where the metagame will no longer make great shifts and mechanics will carry you most of the way, with only minute on the fly decision making being a difference maker, and not overcoming sheer mechanical prowess.

[AGar]

Agreed on the Terran OP explanation.

Agreeing to disagree on points regarding BW pros.

[AGar]

Also, Fantasy sucks.

[AGar]

No he won't.

He's a pure gimmick player who relied all too heavily on Oov and had no real upside of his own. He won't even be able to coast on his mechanics, because they're bad inherently.

[AGar]

Ftfy, bonjaw was a term invented much later when Savior was large, in charge and slaughtering everything that moved. It was then retroactively given to certain past pro's.

Already gotcha covered there. But yeah.

Domination is when your team puts on showmatches JUST to flaunt around that "Hey, we have the baddest motherfucker in the game right now. Send anyone you have, they won't beat him."

[AGar]

Of course!

[AGar]

Tbm hit it on the head - any team would get shit on for something like this. Millennium only gets it worse because they have a track record of shit like this

[AGar]

Seriously. EG used to field Colbi (a low-Masters level Terran in SC2 and like... a C level Terran in BW) if they were down a man so as to not come up short on lineups.

It is a commitment, and whether HD or CatsPajamas knew about it beforehand is irrelevant - they have 7 players on their roster, and the fact that one was sleeping and the other "didn't want to play" and Mill makes NO attempt to make them commit, then not only should those players be blackballed, but Mill should be taking a pr shellacking as well. Could you imagine what would happen if IdrA just decided he didn't feel like playing in an event his team signed up for?

PS 2 : If the Millenium team was that irresponsible and unprofessional they wouldn't have held 4 invitational monthly cup with top EU each time. That should be a mark of respect from the player itself that everyone should understand.

Congrats, they did something right. For all the shit EG got about a situation that actually got blown WAY out of proportion because Milkis likes to get randomly butthurt - look at the amount of shit they do for the community, and do it right.

PS 3 : And yes that's a soft spot of mine because they are doing a lot of thing you can't see for the development of eSports in France that you never heard of. And that is eclipsing all the small accident that happens around

eSports is a global deal. Developing it strictly in one country is pointless, as it does nothing for the overall big picture. This is why the LXP is a step in the right direction, why co-ordination between MLG and IEM needs to happen next year to avoid things like the Orlando-New York clash. Why organizers need to start brainstorming to avoid ridiculous schedules for top players (China-NJ-Orlando-France in a 4 week period is ridiculous for any player, and clusterfucks like this should be avoided in the future, especially when months like July and August went fairly underpopulated in terms of major events).

[AGar]

Fact: When I catch IPL Team Arena, I expect each team to field 5 players and to be able to watch a full series to it's conclusion.
Fact: Millenium still had two players on their roster - presumably under contract. Meaning they should've done everything in their power to force one of these two players to play. Since, y'know, that's what they get paid to do.
Fact: Millenium fielded 4 players then called it in.

[AGar]

I don't think it's unprofessional because StarCraft itself isn't there yet

So because you don't think it's professional, teams shouldn't strive to become professional about it? Rather, it's ok for them to perpetuate the cycle of unprofessionalism because "we're not there yet"?

You do realize we would never meet our full potential if we were to do that, right?

Look at CombatEx. He is stepping up to be more professional.

Wow...

---

Otolia, I'm going to give you some advice from a seasoned vet of this scene who made his fair share of blunders.

Let your emotional attachment dwindle. Unless you are personally being affronted, let your emotions regarding the team and the organization go. Wipe them clean from your memory, and take an objective look at what you're actually seeing.

If you do this, you can go places in the scene. If you can't, you're doomed to failure.

[AGar]

[AGar]

Holy shit Leenock.

[AGar]

I'm pulling for Nani, honestly. Would love to see a White Dude crush it again.

[AGar]

So. Proleague. Starts in less than 12 hours.

[AGar]

I put Jaehoon on my anti-team. So he's bound to have a moderately successful season.

But I hope he gets his face roasted in.

[AGar]

1) Play the campaign, if for nothing else to get a feel for the UI/unit control/etc
2) When you go to multi, use a significant amount of your practice matches to try and get a feel for each race.
3) Prepare to qq.

[AGar]

Fairly recent FB conversation with a friend regarding IdrA. Kinda shocking with the stat, but not all that really.

Friend

idra sucks after losing the first game in a BO3
he's like 0-15 if he loses the first game in a BO3
or something ridiculously terrible

AGar

shit really?

Friend

yeah
idk how he's that terrible

AGar

well some of the stats are pre-Alex Garfield pep talking him where there was a completely valid strategy of "gay him out in Game 1 to put him on tilt
and then you'd almost guarantee you could win the series"

[AGar]

Honestly, that stat is really just a bit misleading.

I'm sure that after losing the first game, among

everyone

the win rate is probably something like

80%

. Is Idra's a bit higher? Maybe. But it isn't so far out of whack imho. I think people are taking way too much from it.

It was more of just a laughing type deal. And yes, Idra is past the whole "Tilt Greg, GG" phase, but I'm sure that stat was mostly from the months prior to October where he hit his stride again.

[AGar]

I will KILL anyone who spoils for me. I'm at work right now, can't catch the games live.

[AGar]

ODT kicks off this weekend.

Groups look pretty balanced.

Also...

HIYA.

[AGar]

I just played BW.

Very difficult when you can't hotkey buildings and units. -.-

[AGar]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=328541

I suddenly hate Stephano a bit less.

[AGar]

I hate him less than I did five minutes ago.

[AGar]

I hate him less than I did five minutes ago.

because he's making enough money that he'd have to be an idiot to stop right now?

doesn't change whether or not he cares about ESPORTS AND FRIENDSHIP AND BUNNIES AND ALL THAT SHIT, just means that he'd rather continue to have a large stream of income right now

No, not exactly.

I've accepted the fact that he's only in this for as long as it's profitable, and moved past that. It was the blatant disrespect for tournament organizers that had pissed me off (ONOG was the biggie, but I've heard grumblings from other organizers I know about him) + the seeming arrogance. However, the video I linked showed me he's not exactly the douche I thought him to be, and this shows me that he's at least semi-serious about this year - going to Korea is a huge investment, and I'm not sure how many people realize it. It's a sacrifice, going into that atmosphere, being essentially isolated like that.

I've always respected Jinro for sticking it out as long as he has thus far. If you're not enjoying the success of someone like Huk, it can be a lonely place over there. Yeah, Tastosis is over there, and a few others are, but you're living in a house where you aren't able to easily communicate with the other players. I remember this being a huge roadblock for Idra when he was with e-STRO, he wasn't welcomed into the house warmly from what we all had heard. Ret had a similar issue, being essentially blackballed at the e-STRO house because they thought he was leaking replays to people I believe was the story. It's not all fun and happiness over there, it's a difficult and challenging scenario. So anyone who at least makes the venture gains a decent amount of respect in my book, and anyone who toughs it out gains that much more.

[AGar]

Guys!

HolyshitMVP.

[AGar]

We're talking about the same people who are using

that word

for SC2 players winning a tournament that - up until fairly recently - was occurring pretty much monthly.

*TWITCH*

[AGar]

Also

New Kong Line Starting? Or is this just another Stork.

[AGar]

If you have a spare hour, listen into this. Gives an awesome perspective on IdrA beyond just his rage and everything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... LsAbIiRVOk

[AGar]

So how about Blizz and MLG...

[AGar]

Ok, MLG decided to not be retarded. Good for them!

Anyways, I really want Tarson to qualify for TSL4 so I can just shout TARSON HOLDS! every game he plays.

I'd also like to see the big guns of EG actually, y'know,

attempt

to qualify.

[AGar]

Huk is in todays bracket. IdrA, JYP, PuMa and DeMu haven't even attempted yet.

[AGar]

Nerchio got in.

All of them are "good enough."

[AGar]

Not to mention that TSL is still one of the marquis events and regardless of whether you think you are "good enough" or not, if you're making a living out of this, you need to be trying to qualify. 2 of the 3 winners of TSL essentially launched their careers off of it, the lone exception being NonY in TSL2.

[AGar]

This is sad, but this is the first time I've ever watched HSC, and now I know why everyone loves it.

[AGar]

Yes, how dare someone who has those kind of mechanics and has a track record of success break their slump and 3-0 a group. The travesty.

Seriously, do you actually take your head out of your ass before you post or do you just keep it in there so you can deny acknowledging the world isn't flat every time you say something.

[AGar]

IEM Ghangzhou was in 2011.

Keep swinging.

[AGar]

Code S has only had 8 champions, so why do you really care about any one else in that case?

[AGar]

You cited a teamleague and two BW leagues in your "majors" which you'd count as considering a player worthwhile if they won.

Ignoring IPL, IEM and DH shows you're just trying to be a whiny bitch about IdrA actually doing well.

[AGar]

Except OSL is now a SC2 league, Proleague will be switching over fully after this season, and both of them are considerably more important to the scene than IPL, IEM or DH.
The fact that IdrA does well at those tournaments should tell you a lot about the level of competition and the seriousness with which the few top-tier players who do attend treat them.

IPL 4 had half of Code S.

Keep striking out chief.

[AGar]

My point.










Your (Your head) ass.

[AGar]

Yup
IdrA definitely out of his slump

Good to see him beating giants of the SC2 scene like... er... Bling and ClouD, and managing to take a game off that Korean colossus Sleep...

For someone who doesn't care about the tournament, you're awfully on top of it.