Mini 1036 - DEFCON Mafia - Over

[Enigma]

Hello all!

[Enigma]

Lucky I choose Fail Safe ability.

Activate Failsafe

DIE SCUM.

[Enigma]

^Hello fellow Aussie. Nice to see some other's on the site.

Anyways before the end of Defcon 4, do we all think everyone should have some discussion as to how we should all choose our options.

The high value investigative abilities serve town alot better, all the townies should choose Espionage (and maybe Eavesdrop) as a first priority at least. Protective abilities too maybe?
Given it's random it's much more beneficial that if everyone (from town at least if you don't wanna be a selfish rat) picks the above for their first option so it's more likely that these roles end in the hand of a townie. Whatever you choose for your following options can be up to your playstyle.

Thoughts?

[Enigma]

And just to be clear: If you're going to nuke someone, you'd better be sure. Launching isn't evidence that supports you being NATO, it's evidence supporting you wanting everyone to die. 8:3:1 is tough enough without townies nuking each other...

Why would you think this would be a NATO thing at all? Town have no idea who scum are, whereas scum know who isn't sum and know their nukes will always hit the right target. It's far from a town agenda.

BTW: There is a free demo on the net of this game, everyone should at least have a quick look at that sometime if you haven't

[Enigma]

The scum have a luxury in this instance because they can spread out their first preferences so they don't clash on ideal abilities for their team. And any good second preferences are going to be picked already as someone else's first preference so it is very likely that several people are going to result in being defaulted to a silo which is a double edged sword for townies.

Scum know that they have the luxury in the gamble for getting better abilities and will want to protect it.

So just keep that in mind when making your choices. Any useful second/third preferences have most likely already been taken. It's going to be a gamble to get all the most beneficial abilities.

On the side, I hate RVS but now I can see why it is so necessary.

[Enigma]

Can you clarify on how the random process will work, in particular for choices that aren't the first option.

(The choices are resolved simultaneously be choice tier with a focus on first choice maximization. I will begin by attempting to award each player their first choice. Once all possible first choices have been awarded, I will move on to the second choice echelon and attempt to award a second choice to each player who did not receive a first choice. This will continue, so on and so forth, until each player has received an ability. --AGM)

[Enigma]

I was actually seeking clarification on how people are awarded their subsequent option in the event of a clash with someone else also on their subsequent options.

As a result, to confirm the validity of saying "I got option #6, this must mean option #1-5 were taken by other players".

[Enigma]

I'm still undecided as to how to approach this.

12 players, 10 abilities, some of them completely useless to town/scum/both.

Still a toss up as to how I want to gamble. Which is why I just need a bit of clarification on how subsequent options are divided.

[Enigma]

Nahh let's all twiddle our thumbs until Defcon 3 so we can begin RVS and not use the extra week we had for beneficial non-RVS discussion.

[Enigma]

What abilities do you think are useless to both? Most can get town info or foil scum plans in some way.

Eavesdrop: This can easily be worked around. Scum have had 1 week to formulate ways of communicating in their quicktopic which won't reveal anything useful.
And personally if I was scum I would spam something that would incriminate a townie (etc etc) 10 times and hope it would get intercepted. A whole case of WIFOM. Useless.

Radar: A crap version of a tracker. Rather useless.

Fighter: Very circumstantial evidence. A deterrence to fake claiming but can easily be worked around.

[Enigma]

That was just a preliminary skim read on the first day. Since then I have actually read through all the rest and given each role a bit of thought. In particular the thought of sending out messages with the intention that they are intercepted which I didn't realize on my first read.

Ehh I thought Stealth Bombers are the regular night kill ability available from Defcon 2. Not exactly sure what you mean?
Question: Can Stealth Bombers be tracked by the independent faction since it is a shared ability.

[Enigma]

Well, not really sure what you want by good discussion, but I'm pretty sure we can all agree that when/if we claim, we should claim abilities we have as well as how/when we used them. Though a silo is going to be the equivalent of VT and at least two players will have it.

I agree with this but what I meant as the pointless discussion was the 'Game Mechanics Discussion' the 'Likelihood of not getting your X choice discussion' and the 'What abilities are pointless discussion'. We're almost into DEFCON 3 and should be beginning scumhunting now, not having pointless discussions that take up the majority if not all of players posts. Pointless discussion is fine. Pointless discussion taking up most of the focus of players is not.

@Everyone to help get on track- Who is your top FoS and why?

Mine would be Enigma for basically starting all three of the previously mentioned discussions either directly or indirectly.

I'm suspicious for trying to encourage so people can begin scum hunting? I would like to have seen you begin scum hunting had I not done any of the above, let's head to RVS now shall we 1 week into the game?

Papa Zito, why am I suss?

[Enigma]

@PZ
Are you emphasizing that bit or are you calling me suss because of that.
I believe above is a valid thought and it's reasonable for any a town player to bring up so that others are aware of a potentially broken ability before they pick it. Don't exactly see how that is a feasible scum tell.
Please try again later.

[Enigma]

Your reasoning actually gives me scummy bad vibes PZ.

Scum would want to encourage people to pick a broken ability because thats one less power role on the opposite team and they can even use this role to their advantage. Pointing this out is actually very contrary to the scum's agenda.
It is not in town's best interest to discredit a logic that is beneficial to town.

Unless someone wants to provide further input and discussion regarding my interpretation of the roles and how they are inaccurate, I'm going to assume that everyone agrees to some degree with my views.

[Enigma]

Actually I have one important mechanic question that my tired eyes refuse to fix:

@Mod: does the defcon level reset at the start of a day?

I already asked this:
Defcon level decreases at the beginning of each day phase.

[Enigma]

Can we all just twiddle our thumbs and stop hating until we can start voting. Let's be friends while it lasts!

In all seriousness though, I know it's pointless discussion but I really don't know how fruitful scumhunting will be until everyone gets a chance to put their vote where their mouth is.

[Enigma]

My little idea for me failed miserably. I sent in 10 preferences and got my 2nd one.

[Enigma]

are you thinking doom or are you still following your deluded logic? I said I missed my first choice. think about it a bit mate.

[Enigma]

Wow Doom. I was hesitant to call you stupid before double checking the game rules because last time I did I got forcefully replaced out.
But since ...

Doombunny, are you stupid? Seriously? Have you even made an effort to read and understand the game rules or do you just plan on being as clueless as you are for the entire game?
HOW COULD I HAVE GOTTEN THE SUB AS MY SECOND CHOICE??

It is not possible, you already have people saying they choose sub as their first option. It is one week into the game and you still have zero idea on how game mechanics work? EVEN AFTER YOU SUBMITTED YOUR OWN CHOICES?!?
Your efforts at scum hunting are pathetic and all are doing is jumping on any opportunity to make it look like you are trying to scum hunt.

VOTE: Doombunny

[Enigma]

No what's scummy is scum who sit back during those phases and don't contribute anything in the thread while yakking away in the QT, and just nitpick little points to their interest to make it look like they are trying to scum hunt but not give themselves the opportunity to split up.

[Enigma]

I'm not claiming to have done scum hunting because I know I will struggle with the limited posts and poor activity in this thread.

[Enigma]

Enigma, do you think Doombunny is scummy for misunderstanding game mechanics?

I think hes scummy for making rash judgments without taking the time to understand the game mechanics first.

[Enigma]

It's my interpretation that 1 week into the game, any townie who is serious about reaching their win condition would have taken the time themselves to fully understand the game mechanics.
Failing to do so brings up the argument that scum skim because they are already well informed and don't need the little details to get a understanding of a situation.

[Enigma]

^wot?

[Enigma]

Convenient how you don't acknowledge the posts on the previous page by Faraday on the previous page Zhero at all and as a result you take Elscouta a bit out of context.

[Enigma]

So it looks like we have done good, we have 2

confirmed

townies now, based on the fact that they failed to read the opening posts properly.

So let me get this right.
My argument, that skimming through posts is a scum tell is declared as a null read then a few pages down the track it is used to pro claim townies.
I'm really not in favor of such definitive calls this early, saying someone gives you a town feel is fine but we are less than 10 pages into this game.
Stupidity and ignorance are easy to feign regardless if you are scum or town.

Scummy response. Feeling pressured?

Your first point is silly, claiming town reads at random is a nulltell. Buddiyng is a scumtell, but Faraday's post doesn't really read as such. Also, I'm pretty sure his reasoning is obvious.

Faraday's reasoning? You mean #146-#150? Obvious? What am I missing out in those posts that you are seeing?

[Enigma]

It isn't meant to be sincere. For those who don't notice it's sarcastic.

Stop bread crumbing your role.

[Enigma]

Firstly Eavesdropper is crap and I already mentioned why.

On reading you in ISO.
Your bread crumb trail is obvious. It doesn't take a genius to to guess what you have now.

Now I'm just trying to debate whether is the a ploy or you are actually so naive.
No insult intended for lack of a better word.

[Enigma]

No Faraday's meta is consistent (to a degree) with his other games. Checked before.

[Enigma]

Maybe I should make my sarcasm alot more blunt.
Confirmed townie is BS. I'm not calling anyone confirmed unless it's stipulated by the mod. Confirmed status is what make town lose during LYLO. It's a fucking illusion and does more harm to town than good.

@Hind
I looked at his ISO to see if I could get a feel to see whether his breadcrumbing was sincere or not. I'm still no convinced on this matter. What's wrong with looking at someone's ISO? Is that supposedly scummy?

@Faraday
My opinions on Elscouta. Well based on my above reasoning, I do agree with him to some degree.
All this so called "blah is confirmed" when we have only had a few days of serious talk is making me uncomfortable. I've been waiting on this issue because I wanna see those if those people who are attacking him actually believe in their logic (which I disagree with), or are just looking for a bandwagon to jump on.
I'm not going to defend his argument because I want to see how he defends himself.

Just because one disagrees with another's logic doesn't mean the other is scum.
It is their logic and it is not for another to dictate the beliefs someone else holds.
There are better scum tells than just "I don't agree to this persons thoughts".

[Enigma]

Just realised. Andrius could be feigning ignorance to the rules. He seems to understand the DEFCON issue in that first post, but then seems to misunderstand it in the second. Something to bare in mind about the whole "ability picking" issue. Faraday, what do you make of that, seeing as Andrius' ignorance of the rules was your main reason for finding him townie?

QFT.

That and his

continuous

breadcrumbing (bread-crumbing is an effort, not a habit) really sends off bad vibes to me. There is no need to hint and hint what your role is.

The ignorance card is a easy choice to play as scum.

Your bread crumb trail is obvious. It doesn't take a genius to to guess what you have now.

Now I'm just trying to debate whether is the a ploy or you are actually so naive.

^What do other people think? (Yer I know my proof reading sucks but you get the jist)

This is exactly why I dislike people calling someone else confirmed town. It is just so easy to fake.

[Enigma]

Vote: Enigma

Welcome to the Jungle.

And watch out people. The Stealth Bomber comes out in DEFCON 2.

I'll reread the thread soonish. If it doesn't happen between classes today it will be tomorrow.

That's a nice surprise change in meta. Why weren't your trying to scum hunt/vote yesterday? You conveniently voted in RVS and didn't move your vote. Did your scum buddies tell you to pick up your game over night?
Your ISO is mainly fluff, you really don't attack anyone or pursue any leads and contains alot of game theory talk.
What all of a sudden has made you suspicious of me? And why that list of people in particular?
^Answer my questions and I'll answer yours.

A few things I didn't get to say before the thread was closed.
-Fantastic catchup post.
-I think day phase ended a bit early. Town could have benefited a bit more from the serious discussion of Defcon 3. Don't like the people who advocated the lynch either.

Btw did anyone notice the thread was unlocked all day yesterday?

(I opened it because I was going to write and post the daybreak scene, but then a friend dropped my room and asked if I wanted to discuss a ~200 page reading assignment ... that I realized I had forgotten to do. So I had to skip mafia and read that instead. Oops. --AGM)

PS: This is last week until midterms here. *Hyperventilates*
So if I disappear for a few days before the end of the week it's probably cos I drowned in a waterfall of text books.
And if I disappear on the weekend it's probably because I passed out somewhere in town.

[Enigma]

@Andrius <- This guy is clueless. Not everyone is as stupid as you...

[Enigma]

Uhhh, no I didn't. I HAVE A BRAIN.
There are alot of active abilities, and scum has to do a little guess work.

Firstly no. I don't think you have a brain. If you do it's being put to pretty pathetic use.

There are 3 scum. They know what abilities they have. They very likely know what abilities they didn't get (due to preferences), hence what abilities town will have.
They will already have a pretty good idea of what PR's town has.
Meanwhile town will still be the uninformed. And even then they can make a very accurate guess as to what you have based on your playstyle today.

You really need to stop for a minute and get a grasp on the mechanics of this game and think about all the possibilities that can occur.

What you are implying is that you used an active ability (or special ops if I have it)?
1. The doc in this game is dead.
2. You are claiming espionage on day 1 when the above is true?
3. The rest don't confirm anything.

Geee, thanks for breadcrumbing more than you already have idiot.

[Enigma]

Usually I like to see more of a fight over two competing bandwagons, but I felt that Elscouta had seriously made a tactical error in his approach to the game (I'll try to get players to claim their powers and attack them if they refuse). I could totally see something like that in a scum QT. Although he was blunt about it, in retrospect, I guess, it was subtle in its own way. I was likely making a mountain out of a molehill, as Elscouta must've honestly thought that his ideas were productive for the town. It turns out we're just on fundamentally different sides of that issue.

Stop making up reasons for why you prematurely hammered with only one week of real discussion.

RedCoyote, your catchup post was excellent. Hammer away.

^Don't like this at all.

[Enigma]

Nope I expressed that I didn't support his wagon and gave reasons as to why. I don't really care for your town points.

Confirmed townie is BS. I'm not calling anyone confirmed unless it's stipulated by the mod. Confirmed status is what make town lose during LYLO. It's a fucking illusion and does more harm to town than good.

My opinions on Elscouta. Well based on my above reasoning, I do agree with him to some degree.
All this so called "blah is confirmed" when we have only had a few days of serious talk is making me uncomfortable. I've been waiting on this issue because I wanna see those if those people who are attacking him actually believe in their logic (which I disagree with), or are just looking for a bandwagon to jump on.
I'm not going to defend his argument because I want to see how he defends himself.

Just because one disagrees with another's logic doesn't mean the other is scum.
It is their logic and it is not for another to dictate the beliefs someone else holds.
There are better scum tells than just "I don't agree to this persons thoughts".

So no, by your argument, I'm not going to conform to seem pro town unless I actually believe in that view, which I don't.

[Enigma]

Your tactic:
Sure it has it's pros. But then this is a 12 player game. There is a SK on the loose!
Most 12 player games only have 2 factions with limited night kill abilities.
Probability dictates that town is most likely to suffer the most with 2 opposing factions which both have access to night kills after today. And for all we know the sub is most likely in scums hands. That's going to hurt town in upcoming days.

The question:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2500899
Doesn't that post imply I don't think he's scum and why? I always seem to make the mistake of making assumptions.
(I agree with his opinion that confirmed townie status is BS) + (I think calling someone scum for disagreeing with their logic is BS) = ????

Let me give you a hint.
???? = Not scummy. I admit his stubbornness made the situation worse but the reasoning wasn't solid enough for me to suspect he was scum. So no, I wasn't going to vote for him.

[Enigma]

1. Even though at L-1 didn't think he would be lynched only half way through the day.
2. I thought he would claim something and would slow down the process and to question him further.
3. I tried to bring up another discussion to take heat of Escoluta, no one cared much.
4. You hammered before I could respond and I didn't know you would?
5. Escoluta dug himself into a hole.

I already said why I didn't think he was scum. The fact that multiple continued to TUNNEL him and ignore all arguments really didn't help the case.
Not ONE PERSON responded to my argument as to why I didn't think he was scummy. ZERO, ZILCH, NADA.
And because of your hammer I didn't have the time to beat the dead horse.

Honestly I think what I posted in response to Faraday was reasonable. Surprised to me to see everyone completely ignored it and wouldn't stop for a second to consider other possibilities and continued to accuse him.
Which is why I'm even more convinced now that the majority of scum were on the Escoluta wagon.

[Enigma]

I really CBF having to read through the bullshit posts by Andrius.

That and I am offended he told me to grow a brain. I have known exactly what you had since the beginning of the day. You made it fucking obvious. LIKE REALLY FUCKING OBVIOUS.

You are just wasting everyone's time now and distracting everyone from scum hunting where they have to waste their time guessing your not so cryptic posts.
I'm sure the scum already have a much better idea of what abilities are present as I discussed earlier, so it will be no surprise to them.

Andrius has the radar ability. Last night he tracked me. So obviously I have an active ability too.
I know I'm not scum, so you can't obviously be Espionage.
So no if you had brains you would know that it your result does not even suggest that I could be scum.
Further more you are ruining this for the town team because you are forcing town PRs to expose themselves without a doc.

Town would not be stupid enough to do that as I doesn't benefit town AT ALL.
VOTE: Andrius

Also I can not believe you thought i was scum out of FAVOR TEXT???? WOW!

[Enigma]

Let's do this my way:
There are 6 abilities. I have one. That makes 5. Battleship is gone. That makes 4. I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING WHEN I DO IT. I'M NOT A COMPLETE DUMBASS LIKE YOU GUYS ASSUME I AM. Some of you have played/watched me play before, and I am not useless/stupid.

Please tell me I was wrong about all of the above.
If I am I will gladly shut up with my arrogant attitude for the rest of the game and sulk in the corner until I am nightkilled.

[Enigma]

On second thoughts, if he was scum he would just night kill me instead of risking himself by

breadcumbing

practically telling everyone what his role is.
Which leads me back to my next idea, he's probably just a confused little soul.

[Enigma]

Socio happens to get online before me and decides to change votes to me for no reason whatsoever before I can its suddenly OMGUS?

Don't worry, I won't hold that against you. <3

^That and one vote is all you have to contribute so far for this day phase?

[Enigma]

2 people = twice as much posting.

Still waiting to see him respond in this thread.
How cruel of him to leave us hanging with his half arsed claim.

[Enigma]

I don't know who "he" is because I'm not sure who is posting but,
Andrius has posted all over the site during the past 24 hours and I've seen him browsing this forum.
So I would assume he is purposely lurking.

Discussion is at a bottleneck because of the above. And it's going to hurt town.

[Enigma]

This is pretty defensive, and I don't think you're conceding enough to our (Percy, me, and Zhero) similar point of views on the subject. This, coupled with the major disconnect between you and I on the town getting it's lynch in before the mafia had their nightkill situated, really puts us at odds. I don't know if it's scummy yet, but I do suspect there will be friction between us for the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately what I posted is true and it is horribly suss that no one even stopped to acknowledge a counter argument and continued to tunnel Escoulta. I don't see the disconnect and don't see why it's scummy.
I expressed that I would have preferred if the hammer hadn't occurred so early, I listed the reasons why and linked where I previously defended Escoulta argument, then pointed out an argument stating why I though there were multiple scum on the Escoulata lynch.
No one shares all the same one opinions. Doesn't necessary imply it is scummy. In fact I would go to say conformity is much more scummy.

Jeez, I miss one day and there are already covert paramilitary operations influx.

If this is the truth, and since it's coming straight from the horse's mouth I'm inclined to believe it, then now we have a bit of information. I don't know (actually I do know, it's not) if it's worth the cost of giving the scum this information, but at least we know now that Andrius and Enigma are in no way aligned together. It's probably likely at this point that one of them is scum, although Enigma's only sin was using the ability he choose at the beginning of the game, just as Andrius did.

It boggles my mind that Andrius would automatically assume a Radar result to be scum. I cannot think of any logical reason for pushing through with it other than just not thinking long-term. In other words, I tend to agree much more with your post 301.

It's the only logical explanation from my PoV. I'm tried of his half arsed claim and it's a waste of time and distraction to town trying to comprehend what is going on in his mind.

IMO, scum would have already had a good idea of what Andrius is referring to. So it's no new information to them. They know I'm not scum so cop would not have turned up a positive result. We all know Andrius doesn't have eavesdrop so there is no way he found some inside information. Fighter is a useless accusation with no basis for argument (atm). Radar is the only investigative ability left.

You say you think that one of us is likely to be scum. Yet you agree with my posts about Andrius being a confused person. Earlier you say I might be scummy? Are you implying I'm scum? Make up your mind and take a stance so there is no misunderstanding.

[Enigma]

Regarding my backflip about Eavesdrop which so many people seem to want to review over and over again.
Early game in this thread was rather pathetic. Seemed everyone just wanted to confirm then AFK until preferences could be made and voting could begin.
I tried to initiate discussion multiple times. If I was scum I was have just shut up and watch discussion stagnate.
Eavesdrop is a good ability at first glance, I'm sure most people recognized that. If I was scum I most likely would have shut up about the counter measures to that and hope some stupid townie fell for it. Instead I warned everyone about it, which does not at all contribute to the scum agenda.
So no, to all you people thinking that is a scumtell, go find something substantial, think about it, and come back with your arguement.
^Which appears I pointed out already doubling back to see what 85/86 were.

About the Andrius issue.
Honestly I'm going to say I wasn't convinced he was confirmed scum. I had to vote him to pressure him to clear up the mess he started.
Firstly his breadcumbing is obvious. Whether I pointed it out or not, people would have noticed. Comeon, not everyone is as stupid as you give them credit for.

Don't fucking blame me for chucking all this shit at him. He started this mess the moment he got the urge to expose me based on his investigation. And now I have to clean up the crap he started.
What should I have done, ignore the whole issue and hope it would go away? No. The result would just be a cesspool of shit thrown against me if I had approached it any other way.
Do you not see the way he tried to insinuate I was scum at the beginning of the day with his "cop" claim. So no, I'm not going to get myself lynched because of the retarded actions he did.
As far as I'm concerned I took the best approach to the issue and pointed out the facts. Otherwise the only result would be mindless bickering and second guessing in completely the wrong direction and me getting even more annoyed at Andrius than I already am.

Town PR's are supposed to stay quite until they have substantial evidence which will benefit the town when they come out. His idiotic and stupid actions has royally fucked 2 town (I do think he's town and I've mentioned why) PR's. I'm not willing to accept any blame for all this shit that he has caused.

I wasn't tunneling him for days on end. Get your facts right. I called out his breadcrumbing and tried to generate discussion regarding that, near the end of day 1. I'm not claiming his investigation clears me. I'm saying it's fucking retarded to insinuate I am scum to everyone else without providing reasons, and it is still shameful to assume I am scum based on the fact I have an active ability.

Percy is obvTown. Faraday is probably Town. Aurorous, probTown.

^This is retarded and unsubstantiated. Town lists are stupid and baseless unless you are told by the mod and you didn't even discuss why they are town.

So it seems you have avoided these pertaining issues.

Why did Andrius softclaim on me and what did he hope to achieve with his result?
Why would you force a PR whose alignment could very well be town to reveal himself? How does this support the town agenda? STUPIDITY is not an excuse.

This is my usual meta, get used to it. No I'm not that angry atm IRL. It's how I express myself in an argument over the interwebz.
Maybe excessive with the insults but you get the point, that and I'm so glad I'm out of a game where I can call someone stupid without being patronized and blacklisted by some nazi mod.
If the person I have insulted think it is excessive, just say so and I will direct any narcissistic comments towards you much more subtly. However I feel this case is substantiated based on the previous post directed at me.

Unvote

[Enigma]

How did he not force me out?

He came out and voted me, when asked why he claimed it was role related information. Which conventionally only he has access to.
Now if I didn't know any better I would think he just claimed a cop guilty on me. But both me and you know it's not the case.
Tell me, how am I to defend myself without exposing the PR's.

Is this going to be a dual role effort or is it just going to be you posting?

Also, what is it with him thinking I'm scum based on the flavor text? Honestly???

[Enigma]

@Zhero
I'm not ready to give a comprehensive list with reasons yet here's just a few.

Zhero: For tunneling me the entire game and completely ignoring all other aspects of the game. ZERO comment on the Escoulta lynch. Just check your ISO.

And conveniently I don't know how he managed to do it. These are all my next suspects perfectly summed up. Just needed you in there.

Sociopath
SpyreX
Percy

One more question for Andrius.
Why that list of people in particular?

[Enigma]

I'm not ready to give a comprehensive list with reasons yet here's just a few.

[Enigma]

Geh.
I'm tried of trying to breadcrumb but not to at the same time. Woudn't be in this position if it wasn't for Andrius. cbf.

VOTE: Zhero
For role fishing. I'm purposely trying not to divulge any more information about what my role is. It's already a very small list to choose from, and with no doc I'm very likely screwed due to having a PR.
Obviously if Andrius has radar, what pinged me to his ability, it is that list. Obviously I used my ability on one of those people...

[Enigma]

No, you don't have the luxury to state what is justifiable.

It doesn't concern you because you haven't been interested in anything else apart from me being scummy.
Your ENTIRE ISO relates directly to me from Defcon 4. Barely any mention of anyone else.
You have a total of TWO posts outside of RVS that doesn't have my name in it. You've made 16 posts out of RVS. 14 of them relate to me. That's pretty pathetic.

Why's that? Afraid of having any connections to your scum buddies when you flip scum?
Why did you not make a single comment about the Escoulta lynch?
You say I don't mention it in your case against me ... you have got to be fucking kidding me. Look at your god damn ISO.

No we aren't all power roles and secondly half of them are useless to town. So I already am an obvious target ever since Andrius called me out.
I'm crumbing because idiots like you are trying to role fish.

And no you've asked me twice about my suspects and I promptly answered the 2nd time. I missed the first one because I, as well as everyone else was a bit preoccupied with the Andrius issue.
Stop trying to make a case out of nothing.

[Enigma]

Also I just read your entire case again, it's pretty bad lol. It's Defcon 2 and you are still drooling half your points of Defcon 4 and 5.

You said I have posted so many times yet that's the best case you can offer against me? LAWL!
I have already provided arguments to all the accusations you made against me, yet you have refused to acknowledge them preferring to base your scum claims of RVS at this stage in the game.

More Zhero votes please. This guy is badddddd!

[Enigma]

Meh: After the mess I caused I would be up for linking preference lists today.

I would suggest though, posting preference lists but not actually stating what you got to make it harder for scum to lie during popcorn.

[Enigma]

Scum can lie about their preference list to incriminate a townie and no one will know for certain? Becomes a whole mess of WIFOM against probability.

I'm going to sit on the idea over night too tired to think right now.

Why are we claiming again? To out the sub? Or to get the town investigative roles killed for a trade off to out one liar?
Sure we will know who has what abilities, doesn't confirm their alignment at all. Town PR's become redundant to a degree.

[Enigma]

I have already claimed for him twice... Wow tunnel syndrome much? Read.

[Enigma]

Hehhh

The problem here is WIFOM.
Now I believe that scum would be lest inclined to try and send fake messages after my warning and discussion over the matter. However doesn't mean that it won't happen.

The part about if this post is dropped makes it seem even less legit.

However it refers to a method as to how to communicate roles. I think I would be a reasonable task to go back through the thread to see if people have made fluff statements in a way to try identify what they are talking about.

I think a few things would be beneficial right now.
1. If anyone was stupid enough to get eavesdrop and you feel it's necessary to claim because you don't feel this message has been doctored by being sent multiple times then claim.

Also it's midterm break here so I'm going to be spending alot of my time having alcohol induced fun.

[Enigma]

Firstly I would prefer if my target remained unrevealed.
I've already given a good idea of the results, I said it was one of the people on the list Andy posted.
That's enough information already, and I don't see what outing who the exact target was will help achieve just yet apart from pressure on me to reveal what ability I have and what result I returned.

Spyrex's insistent behavior regarding Calicifer makes me feel uncomfortable and I'm not really sure exactly what it is he hopes to gain from it.
I have a feeling that Spyrex doesn't like having his name on the list of people I potentially targeted and he want's closure to make sure he wasn't the one targeted.

Unvote

VOTE: Spyrex

[Enigma]

What do you mean when you say claim?
I already said I would prefer if my target wasn't revealed because it gives the scum an even greater likelihood that they will correctly guess my ability.

[Enigma]

...
Gee fucking Gee

Unvote

VOTE: Percy

[Enigma]

Mafia is a game of deductive reasoning.
Maybe you should try using some deductive reasoning instead of deductive everything be spelled out in front of you.

I'll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with flavor text.

[Enigma]

EBWOP: Demanding that everything be spelled out in front of you.

[Enigma]

/popcorn

[Enigma]

Percy, I received a

result

which I believe is quite likely to be incriminating. Do you have an idea why that might be?

[Enigma]

Are all investigative roles supposed to claim on Day 2? I must have missed that memo.

Still waiting on the response from Percy.

[Enigma]

Yes, I'm fighter, and by process of elimination I thought that Percy had sub.

Why the hell do you think I would go out of my way to use a Vignere Cipher.
Lucky for me I actually have a basic knowledge on ciphers. And if I was going to use a cipher, I would choose one maths based rather than the classic systems,
It's harder to crack,
Personal preference with what I'm more familiar with.

First I don't type in all caps, I like to keep the integrity of my capslock key.

Secondly,

OK. YOU HAVE A GOOD POINT. I WASN'T SURE JUST HOW MANY PEOPLE STUDIED CRYPTOGRAPHY SINCE I TOOK AN INTEREST IN IT AT LIKE AGE 13, LOL. ANYWAYS, YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT METHOD WAS IMPRACTICAL SO I GUESS IT'S SAFE TO KEEP THIS ONE. ARE YOU GOING TO HAMMER ELSCOUTA? HE IS SUCH AN EASY TARGET THAT IT MAKES ME LOL.

Are the scum fuckign retarded. Unfortunately I actually know a bit about cryptography, (just a pity I'm not going coding and cryptography until next year). You don't fuckign use a Cesar cipher if you want encrypt stuff. It's a fucking joke of a cipher, one of the most obvious ones to realize by eye and easiest to crack.
And no I'm not dumb enough to complain about the complexity of the cipher because my mind has been skull fucked by encryptions 10 billion times harder than this stuff.

We'll encrypt our messages using Md5 encryption. Keep that in mind. You four know how to use this type of encryption, I'll assume. Here's the message. Repond to confirm.

I can not believe someone said the first message is MD5. Do you even know what MD5 is??? I'll give you a hint, it looks NOTHING like that message. They say you FOUR, I'm not sure what that means.

Not sure why "scum" are using both types of decryption, very inefficient. I also don't like the fact they are using different Caesar values, especially more inefficient for decoding for rookies who choose to use the Caesar cipher. I think it's a miracle that Percy managed to figure out all the Caesar constants tbh. Convenient hey?

Before I'm going to believe your claim I want to know exactly when these messages were received.
Why would they be FUCKING GIVING OUT THE CIPHER KEY in Defcon 3 when they could have done so earlier in say Defcon 4 and not face the risk of it getting revealed.
And by what sheer coincidence do you happen to be able to come across the cipher key they use for the rest of the day.

Answer me this too:
1. How did you recognize it was the Caesar cipher. It seems like you actually know a BASIC bit about cryptography to be able to fabricate this (if you did, I just think it's very unlikely that it is real based on the content of the messages). And you just managed to guess the Caesar value too?

soundsgoodtomezalsozjustsoyouknowzwhenwedecrpyusingthissquaretoo
zthetextisgoingtobesquishedtogetherandzeverytimetherezsanewlinez
illrsomeonehitsenterwewillhavetodecryptthatpaRTSEPARATELYJUSTAHE DSUP

2. What decryption site did YOU use for this. Firstly I find it hard to believe they didn't share a decryption site. Secondly, spaces are being converted which shouldn't happen in an alphabet cipher.

I tried to rolefish Eavesdrop in the post your linked Percy, that is correct. Needed to confirm you had sub.

So my final point is, I am doubting the integrity of these messages and Percy's claim as Eavesdrop.

[Enigma]

Final question. Was Eavesdropper first on your preference list Percy?

[Enigma]

I still think there is a chance that Percy is actually scum sub and he pulled up this whole eavesdrop charade because there are just too many inconsistencies.

What do you think about the leaked message Percy? Because I don't think the leaked message fits in well with what you have described. At all.

ZHERO USE THE METHOD IN POST 18. IT ISN'T THAT HARD. IF THIS POST IS FUCKING DROPPED I'M GOING TO BE PISSED BUT YOU ARE BEING A DUMBASS SO IT'S NOT REALLY A BIG LOSS. SERIOUSLY, IT ISN'T THAT HARD. IT'S BEEN TWO WEEKS, FIGURE IT OUT AND TELL US YOUR POWER.

[Enigma]

It's easy to use for me because I have an understanding of cryptography. I can recognize the hints which suggests it may be a Caesar cipher.

It's one of the most commonly used cipher and easiest to break using brute force. Scum could have easily used a cipher which could not have been broken.

And also for the 4th message, what bothers me is that it says cbf using encryption. How much of a coincidence is that? Do they say I cbf using encryption every time they don't post in code?
And ALSO encryption using a website applet takes about 10 seconds. Honestly how can you not spend 10 seconds copy pasting that stuff into an applet???

I'm becoming more and more satisfied that Percy is lying.

BTW if we are going to assume Percy is telling the truth then it must mean that the leaked message is true because they could have only forced the leak message out by force (IE: spamming it). Vice versa is Percy is lying.

[Enigma]

There are ONLY 25 different possible combination that can be used. Figuring out a Caesar cipher with DIFFERENT caesar values requires you to sit there and try the 25 different possible combination.

Now with scum not identifying which Caesar values they are using it would also require scum to sit there and try all 25 combination for every single post. Keep in mind that the Caesar value changes for each post, it's like the equivalent of using a new cipher code every time you post in code. Which is VERY inconvenient for scum because they need to try 25 different combinations every time they want to read a message.

[Enigma]

We have half a week left on the deadline.
People need to make up their minds about this Percy issue ASAP because if you aren't convinced by this (I don't see how you can't but I'm waiting on Percy's response) we need to decide who is best to lynch next.

[Enigma]

What story do you want to stick to? Recognising the Caesar cipher is easy, because punctuation is intact. And using an applet like this one means you can just cycle through the constants from 1 to 25 and find the right one.

As for the vigenere cipher, I had a lot of difficult decoding it, as I said. I don't know what site they're using. I used this.

HAHAHHAHAHA
*stops to breath*
HAHAHHAHAHAH

For someone who is so smart you just failed miserably.
Your vigenere decoder, it decodes keeping the case constant. Your translations are from upper case to lower case, their translation remains at uppercase.
It also doesn't split text up into multiple lines.
Let me guess ... you decided to write down the entire mumble jumble then retype it into the post using lower case letters. LOLOLOL.
Those 2 sites also happen to be the first on google if you search for a decoder. Interesting fact.

Can we lynch this scum already.

The Caesar codes are just cryptograms, you could even crack them without a program. It makes them horrible for communication since it's only a few minutes work to break one, but they'd have to do that few minutes for every single post.

The weird part is the Vigenere stuff. Why would they bother posting in a code they're not certain the Eavesdropper could crack?

But yeah, I don't think any meaningful conclusions can be made here.

Heaps of meaningful conclusions come from here... Honestly with such a small percentage, how does Percy just manage to come across the Vigenere codeword which he can use for later codes??? The convenience of that just amazes me.

[Enigma]

I didn't necessary make the conclusion that you were sub. I made the conclusion you were scum. Let's look at the list of role abilities.

Submarine: A submerged nuclear submarines can survive for months without surfacing and can creep incredibly close to enemy shores without being detected. {On the first day of DEFCON 1, you may launch a nuclear weapon without revealing yourself as the aggressor. For the rest of the game, you may launch nuclear weapons as though you possessed a missile silo in nuclear launch mode.}

Eavesdrop: A crucial part of the Allies’ success during WWII was its ability to crack into German communications. It worked then. Why wouldn’t it work now? {In DEFCON 3 or below, every time a member of an opposing faction communicates with another member of its faction privately during the night, there is a 5% chance the message will be intercepted and its contents PM’d to you. During the day, this possibility increases to 30%.}

Air base: Capable of deploying a wide variety of response aircraft within seconds and fortified to the brink, any infrastructure surrounding the air base becomes incredibly difficult to penetrate. {You are immune to non-nuclear activated abilities except the Stealth Bomber.}

Fail Safe: Courtesy of Dr Strangelove or: How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb {If you are targeted by a player with a nuclear launch, you automatically launch a nuclear weapon targeting the player targeting you. Your launch cannot be recalled or prevented}.

Firstly, he can't be Air Base because I would have received a null result.

Now consider, I spent heaps long saying how crap Eavesdrop was, Percy never suggested otherwise that it was better or disputed any of my arguing. It's also an easy claim, because hopefully I drilled it into everyone's mind about how crap Eavesdrop was noone would have tried to pick it. I also tried to rolefish when the Zhero message came up and nothing really happened so I was more confident that he really wasn't Eavesdrop. Also he posted thisabout the Zhero message. Now timestamps got nuked so I can't compare when this was posted to the leaked messages, if someone want's to do that for me I it would be so appreciated. So I assumed noone as town had picked Eavesdrop leaving me with the last 2 options. Scum could still have picked it to limit information flow, possibly as a secondary choice.

Percy said he didn't have sub, so if he got this option, he most obviously lied outright and is probably scum.

Now onto fail safe. Percy isn't stupid. Fail safe is massive fail for town, because it's unpredictable and can very likely end up hurting town more than scum if you are on town since you have no control over it. It's alot better for scum since scum aren't going to be nuking each other.

Based on the above is why I deduced Percy was scum. All the defensive abilities are suited to scum, not town.

[Enigma]

That.. is actually pretty weird. Why would you convert the text but not add the spaces back in?

Because he is lying?

[Enigma]

No I'm saying Eavesdrop isn't pro town because scum should be smart enough to make sure it won't disadvantage them. And also town has no way of knowing if the messages are genuine and it just becomes a mess of WIFOM. There are much better options for a second preference than Eavesdrop for a pro town player.

All you morons that taking the leaked messages to heart are just as stupid a scum who would be idiotic enough to say such incriminating things in messages that can be leaked.

I stand by my point that I still believe Percy is scum, or maybe SK. And Percy is more than capable of creating some crazy busing play to trick all you naive idiots if Doombunny flips scum.

The messages are inconsistent with the game thus far, and the mental abilities of the players in the game. Anyone smart enough can make up some story which complements their earlier play, it doesn't necessarily mean its true.
Also, Eavesdrop is one of the safer claims as scum because as a result of my denouncing of the ability, it is likely (read not certain) that most townies would not have chosen that ability. And it's convenient that they can fabricate an entire plot simply because they know exactly what is happening in the game.

@Percy
I don't want to answer your question because it's trivial and stupid and proves nothing in regards to the game. Lovely to see how you manipulate that into being scummy.
But just to satisfy your curiosity, I would have used a Hill Cipher. Something simple and easy to understand, and personal preference really.

I actually did try your tool ... that's how I know it keeps the case constant (HURRDHURR). It's not difficult at all, copy paste text, type in code word, copy paste result out. Simplicity. There is zero need to use pen and paper. Your just lucky that town are too dumb to have any understanding of cryptography and are too lazy to try some of the basics out themselves. That or they are just your scum buddies feigning ignorance.

@Hinduragi
If you fail to see why that is scummy (herrpaderrpa because for all you know it could just be a fake claim and he made up all those messages to trick gullible people like you) then I pity you.

[Enigma]

I'm sure you find alot of things interesting such as butterflies, walks on the beach and choc chip cookies.

I voted for DB because I didn't support the Escoulta wagon and it was obvious that the narrow minded group of people who voted for him weren't going to rest until he was dead.
It's MY (<-keyword) Percy case, not yours. So I will keep it alive as long as I still continue to find him scummy, which is not for you to decide. Kthx.

Here let's find out DB's alignment since you think it's going to be a scumflip as you just stated above.
VOTE: Doombunny

[Enigma]

OMGAWSH HE JUST HAMMERZD ZOMG HE MUST BE SCUM NUKE HIM PLXZORS

[Enigma]

Nps mate. Does it make you nervous?

[Enigma]

Not at all, just piques that eternal interest of mine.

[Enigma]

My hand wasn't forced silly ... I did it by my own free will.
It's not like all you ignorant people would actually do more than: "Ohh I agree Percy's story is inconsistent and very convenient but I still think he's town".

RedCoyote ... you sir are a fucking genius. I never knew I was responsible for my own actions. I always thought someone else was responsible for what I did. Thanks for enlightening me buddy.
Please tell me where I explicitly claim that I voted because my hand was forced?

Having someone lynched is a team effort, 6 people contributed to the vote not just one and you contributed to that so stfu. And if I were you I would go google the definition of a few days because your understanding of it is horribly wrong.
He would have been lynched regardless, I just cbf waiting for the day to end and having to read another idiot ignore my Percy case to hammer doombunny. Ironic how we're still waiting huh?

Idiots with your mentality are probably just scum making an excuse so you can say "Ohh I nuked Enigma because I found him scummy for hammering ... HERPADERPADERRRPPPPPP!! "

[Enigma]

Both but more the former rather than the latter.

There's like 10 billion things directed at me so I kinda pick and choose depending on my mood!

[Enigma]

Have there been any inconsistencies in my stories thus far to suggest that everything I'm telling is a lie?

[Enigma]

AGM ... Mac user .....

(Yes, indeed I am! --AGM)

[Enigma]

Elscoulta is town? What?? He was lynched day 1?

Who did you check night 1?

[Enigma]

Mass role claim?

Me first: Claim Fighter.

[Enigma]

Claim: Fighter

Popcorn to Zhero now. Your turn.

[Enigma]

Popcorn means you choose you gets to claim next.

Since you didn't, I will popcorn for ya!

Sociopath next! GOGO

[Enigma]

Calcifer
Enigma
Faraday
Hinduragi
Percy
RedCoyote
SocioPath
SpyreX
Zhero

9 Alive, 6:3

I'm going to take my pick of scum, if Spyrex is right to be RedCoyote, then out of Zhero, Sociopath, Percy.

Feeling townish for Faraday and Calcifer.
If I find that Spyrex bussed RC, I shall be immensely annoyed.

But I see no reason why RC isn't scum, no use coming out with a fake cop result.

Worse Case Scenario: Spyrex is lying.
I'm just afraid the scum will mass fire nukes before the mod closes the thread, for all we know scum have already subbed nuked us so it is 5:3 now.
If there is one more scum with nuke, that's 4:3. Nightkill/Mislynch: Town lose.

@Mod: Does the sub get to fire another nuke publicily today if it has already fired?

(

(No. The Sub's only ability is to mask the origins of the first launch made by its owner. --AGM)

I actually think RedCoyote needs to be nuked right this instant.

[Enigma]

Spyrex scum with Espionage: False result on Red.

We mislynch red,
Sub nuke fired,
Night kill,
They win the game.

Hrmmmm.... would explain Spyrex wants the day over so quickly.

[Enigma]

Claim please RC

[Enigma]

I'm overthinking everything and I'm so god damn confused right now :S

[Enigma]

NUKE PERCYYY LYNCH REDCYOTE! KGOOOO

[Enigma]

SOMEONE NUKE PERCY QUICK WHAT ARE YOU ALL WAITING FOR??!??

[Enigma]

...

[Enigma]

Percy Zhero RedCoyote
Kthx.

[Enigma]

DONT FUCKN HAMMER RED UNTIL SOMEONE NUKES PERCY WTF.

[Enigma]

Percy obvious scum now.
Your entire fabrication of the scum messages fell on your arse now bhahaha.
Thx for hammering before someone nuked you and covering it up with walls of text.

Don't know what Faraday ain't claiming nothing important left on role list. Scratch him of pro-town list now.

[Enigma]

It might just be because PERCY IS SCUM HERPPADERPAA.

The person who nukes Percy will gain infinite town points from until the day I die!

[Enigma]

My check was inconclusive, the person I checked didn't lie as they have already claimed. AFAIK.

[Enigma]

Eavesdrop....

[Enigma]

I would be keen if you played a large theme with it.

I would suggest though only one first preference, no list, then the rest get defaulted to silo.
And maybe make ABM a bit more attractive somehow.

PS: Percy I was wrong about you my bad. Sorry?
But I warned you all about Eavesdrop and it's your fault you were to arrogant to listen.

[Enigma]

Hah! I tend to have that effect on people sometimes when I get to emotionally involved in a game (means I'm having fun! if I'm all cheerful I'm probably faking it because I'm losing interest).

From someone's sig in a recent newbie game.. He's probably just a bit upset that I won

The reward for the most Arrogant Prick of a Player that I've played with so far goes to: Enigma

[Enigma]

Ohh btw I did my fighter check on Hindugari ...

Hrrmmm .. should followed through with my gut feeling earlier.