The I don't play anymore thread
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Vi Professor Paragon
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tealdeer The idiocy isn't going to stop because that's what baseline Mafia just tends to be.
Besides, it's far more effective to learn for oneself how to play Mafia than to try to "teach" them anything.Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.- Mr. Flay
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Mr. Flay Metatron
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Also, anytime the site DOES "level up" in finding scum, scum also level up. It's always going to be an arms race, and I flat don't believe that the site is "dumb" right now. Are there quirky players? Absolutely. Are there BAD players? Definitely...and always have been. "Stimpy" ring a bell for anybody??
I do think we've had the perennial "all the quirky players have joined all the games they can over the summer" problem, but that's cyclical.Retired as of October 2014.- Oso
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Oso Goon
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"Murder she wrote"
What I think JDodge, Vi and some others have been talking about is "Murder She Wrote". Everyone wants to be a detective and are certain their pet theories of what is happening in any given game is right. It's hard to blast people out of their notions when they think they are right. I know I am that way and I've come up with some whoppers over time.
Instinctive (Gut) players can make intuitive leaps that can be amazing at times and also right. But I'd go so far as to say that 'Gut' players are wrong most of the time unless they use other methods to either validate or invalidate their guts reads. Or their reasoning skills are good enough that the 'gut' read is showing them something that they just haven't found the evidence to back up yet. This is pretty much how I'd classify more than half the players I play with, scum-hunting without a net.
Then there are the numbers crunchers (I fall into that category somewhat). People who try and use past set ups (mini-normal forum is a good example) to predict what is happening in their particular game based on what claims are known at the time. Minimal scum-hunting at this point. Player reads take a back seat to guessing the setup. Only scum hunting done at that point is to determine which players are acting the least scummy if they have (near)identical claims or make a claim that would unbalance the perceived set-up.
Logical players. Rely too much, in my opinion, on traditional tells. One type of player where an "Appeal to Authority" might actually work. Scum hunting consists of finding logical cracks in players play and is a pretty good way of finding them. I've found that the more a player adheres religiously to that style, the harder it is to get them off their reads. Even if the person they are focusing on is obvtown who is using crap logic out of ignorance rather than out of any nefarious design.
And there are many more.
Point to this? I agree with Flay. For an Internet Forum, Mafia Scum is pretty 'smart' as far as the people who come here goes. I've only run into a single forum on a site that compares to the level of education and smartness that I have seen here. (I've visited a lot of them over the years).
The problem you run into with chuckleheads, bad players, ect, ect, is way lower on this site than I've seen on others. Part of the 'dumbing down' I've seen is all on my side. In a game it easy to become dismissive of a person who seems to be working at cross-purposes to you when you both are town and you both know there is almost 100% chance you are town. Some of the disinterest over time could be logged off to a smattering of bad players and VIs but maybe some of that has to do with burn-out, real life and a run of games that just frustrate the hell out of you because you are playing with people who use play styles so different, it's hard to enjoy a game with them in it even if you know you are on the same side but neither is going to give an inch in 'the way they play the game'. Especially if they (or you[and when I say you, I mean me ]) are not really willing to work with the theories and reads the others have because they, for whatever reason, have to right. It's frustrating as hell.My Uncle always use'ta say, 'You can't get no blood from a turnip.' .... He'd say the same thing about gettin' it from a stone, too.
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I never said nothin' back to him. You don't want mess with no freak that's searchin' around that hard for blood.- Super Smash Bros. Fan
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Super Smash Bros. Fan Mafia Scum
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TheLonging Mafia Scum
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I'm just constantly challenging myself to change my playstyle in every game I'm in, as town and scum. I wanna find something that works for BOTH and yet I can easily blend them together. The first time I played mafia I was lurker, and yet I was fairly decent at scumhunting (iirc). When I tried getting more involved I somehow took a dip in my scumhunting ability. It's hard to reinvent myself all the time to help me be better, which is why I think I like modding a whole lot betterShow0-1 at MS.net (0-0 offsite)Town:
0-0 at MS.net (0-0 offsite)Scum:
0-0 at MS.net (0-0 offsite)3rd Party:
Overall: 0-0 at MS.net (0-0 offsite)
Thestatusquo - and that, ladies and gentlemen, was trolling.
cyberbob - it doesn't count if you're insecure enough about it to have to openly pat yourself on the back- jimfinn
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jimfinn Goon
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Fawful much?Vi wrote:
Rounding out the pizza pie is a corollary to the first general rule - common wisdom and popular ideas about finding scum usually don't work; in fact they tend to be counterproductive for the team as a whole.
Adding the delicious pepperonis on top of this thin crust of your doomWelcome to The Minigame Race! A fun challenge of your skills at many, many games. Challenge 1: 9 players remainhttp://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15354- yabbaguy
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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Overusing clichés much?
That's one thing that irks me. I hate this damned stupid cliché that is going around that makes me want to scream at you lot through the internet.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
Town: 10-21 | Mafia: 3-4 | Other: 0-1
yGDB(meta + commentary)
- On reruns at Sens-O-Tape!- Vi
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Vi Professor Paragon
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It would be really awesome if anyone knew what you were talking about, because it looks like you're mindlessly lashing out at me right now.yabbaguy wrote:Overusing clichés much?
That's one thing that irks me. I hate this damned stupid cliché that is going around that makes me want to scream at you lot through the internet.Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.- Kataphraktoi
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Kataphraktoi Townie
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Is this a two person party or can anyone join? *mindlessly lashes VI*Vi wrote:
It would be really awesome if anyone knew what you were talking about, because it looks like you're mindlessly lashing out at me right now.yabbaguy wrote:Overusing clichés much?
That's one thing that irks me. I hate this damned stupid cliché that is going around that makes me want to scream at you lot through the internet.
Actually i hate you a lot less with the new avatar so carry on
My career was over before it began. [/wittyism]- yabbaguy
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yabbaguy (O)ptimized
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omg ur misrepping me!!!!
No, I was talking about jimfinn being the millionth-in-line using the "____ much saying" that quite a few are using to make a point.yabbaguy ~ Winning without actually winning.
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yGDB(meta + commentary)
- On reruns at Sens-O-Tape!- Vi
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Vi Professor Paragon
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Kataphraktoi wrote:VIEverything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.- CSL
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CSL Jack of All Trades
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Kata, don't confuse VI with Vi.
VI = Village Idiot. NOT Vi.Show"I can't kill my own best friend, especially when I can't do shit at all!" - Tragedy
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V/LA from Mafia on weekends. Sorry!- JDodge
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JDodge Accept it
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As much as I thank you for the lecture, I see no reason whatsoever to torture myself by reading through pages upon pages of crap in order to see my side lose because they refused to pull their heads out of their asses.yabbaguy wrote:
Am I an idiot?JDodge wrote:I tried a comeback over the past couple of days. Can't take the sheer amount of idiocy present in the site meta at the moment.
Besides- if people are being dumb, it's your job (partially) to get back in the games and show them "no you dunces, you've gotta do it [this way]". Even if you get lynched for being a contrarian and a loudmouth, if your side goes on to lose, it's point proven. That's how you do it.That is not a satisfying conclusion to a game, that is a great way to waste time on pointlessly frustrating pursuits.
I could rant about how there is no such thing as a playstyle that sucks ad nauseum, but I'll skip to the actual point and say that the issue is more a general lack of common sense.UK wrote:Part of the idiocy I've noticed is people refuse to change their styles even when they're proven to suck.
That's probably why JDodge is throwing up his hands at this point.
useless indoctrinationVi wrote:For what it's worth, there ARE "How to be a good Townie" and "How to find scum and get them lynched" articles on the wiki. People may or may not read them, and may or may not forego what's said in them because they believe they have a better way to go about things.
Oso is also completely and utterly wrong particularly:
because mafia is a game of competing motivations and personalities, not chessOso wrote:Scum hunting consists of finding logical cracks in players play and is a pretty good way of finding them.- Vi
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Vi Professor Paragon
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What about playstyles that either can't work or are not utilized effectively enough by the players themselves to work (due to a lack of common sense)?JDodge wrote:
I could rant about how there is no such thing as a playstyle that sucks ad nauseum, but I'll skip to the actual point and say that the issue is more a general lack of common sense.UK wrote:Part of the idiocy I've noticed is people refuse to change their styles even when they're proven to suck.
That's probably why JDodge is throwing up his hands at this point.
I think it would be practical to know what everyone's expectations are before someone starts trying to get away with breaking them. At the very least learn how not to get lynched and how to get someone else lynched.
useless indoctrinationVi wrote:For what it's worth, there ARE "How to be a good Townie" and "How to find scum and get them lynched" articles on the wiki. People may or may not read them, and may or may not forego what's said in them because they believe they have a better way to go about things.
I see what you're saying and I agree with most of what you're getting at, etc.Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.- UncertainKitten
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UncertainKitten Maid In Japan
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That's more what I meant when I said your style sucks.Vi wrote:What about playstyles that either can't work or are not utilized effectively enough by the players themselves to work (due to a lack of common sense)?"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
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Internet Mafiais probably never going to happen. You all probably knew that.- animorpherv1
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animorpherv1 Honey Trap
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JDodge Accept it
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The problem still lies with the lack of common sense, so I really fail to see your point.Vi wrote:
What about playstyles that either can't work or are not utilized effectively enough by the players themselves to work (due to a lack of common sense)?JDodge wrote:
I could rant about how there is no such thing as a playstyle that sucks ad nauseum, but I'll skip to the actual point and say that the issue is more a general lack of common sense.UK wrote:Part of the idiocy I've noticed is people refuse to change their styles even when they're proven to suck.
That's probably why JDodge is throwing up his hands at this point.
The idea that we should have expectations beyond people have a general level of functioning sense going into a game is a bit daft and naive, really. I take issue with the idea that the townie's goal is to not get lynched (the townie's survival is meaningless if you can lynch a scum because of their loss. Survivalism =/= effective town play, because it makes you unwilling to make the necessary waves to push through lynches on your main suspects), or that their goal is to get someone else lynched (vanilla townie goal should be to draw the scum's NK, cop goal should be to survive long enough to reveal effectively, doc should be surviving, etc.). I disagree that either are skills that need to be learned or can be learned from a guide, but that's a discussion for another time (and one of the theory essay-thingies that I have currently stuck in writing hell).Vi wrote:
I think it would be practical to know what everyone's expectations are before someone starts trying to get away with breaking them. At the very least learn how not to get lynched and how to get someone else lynched.
useless indoctrinationVi wrote:For what it's worth, there ARE "How to be a good Townie" and "How to find scum and get them lynched" articles on the wiki. People may or may not read them, and may or may not forego what's said in them because they believe they have a better way to go about things.
I see what you're saying and I agree with most of what you're getting at, etc.- Vi
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Vi Professor Paragon
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Notice that this does not readAt the very least learnhownot to get lynched andhowto get someone else lynched.
nor does it readAt the very least learn not to get lynched and to get someone else lynched.
The more polite words we use for people who are unable to avoid getting lynched in ordinary situations and/or cannot voluntarily endanger their suspects are usually based on the American English root "suck".At the very least learnwhennot to get lynched andwhento get someone else lynched.Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.- mykonian
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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This is true now.CSL wrote:After the games I'm in are over, I'm only going to mod.Show"I can't kill my own best friend, especially when I can't do shit at all!" - Tragedy
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Kmd4390 I lost a bet.
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SaintKerrigan Brings Out The Flavour
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Why the hell did I watch that? Here I am innocently lurking an MD thread looking for new ways to catch scum and then I go 'Oh my! Vi posted a link! I should click it!' and then boom I get blasted in the faise with some weird screamo-rap shit which made my face go static for a full four minutes.Vi wrote:Kataphraktoi wrote:VI
I hate you Vi. I want my four minutes back. D=<.Call me Vas, ;D A little less active than I used to be due to IRL. Hoping to be back up to speed soon-ish!- RayFrost
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CSL Jack of All Trades
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LVasudeVa wrote:
Why the hell did I watch that? Here I am innocently lurking an MD thread looking for new ways to catch scum and then I go 'Oh my! Vi posted a link! I should click it!' and then boom I get blasted in the faise with some weird screamo-rap shit which made my face go static for a full four minutes.Vi wrote:Kataphraktoi wrote:VI
I hate you Vi. I want my four minutes back. D=<.
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LShow"I can't kill my own best friend, especially when I can't do shit at all!" - Tragedy
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V/LA from Mafia on weekends. Sorry! - CSL
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