NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Wraith]

It's fucking hilarious: "Oh all he's doing is flailing he must be scum. What are those, WoT scumhunting posts? Maybe I'll read th-oh wait Wraith wrote them. That's a paradox, he's scum, he can't scumhunt. They don't exist."

[Robbnva]

Wow, amazing. My two WoTs were COMPLETELY ignored. Especially by my primary suspects and wagoneers.

@dana: If Xite was my scumpartner and bussing me then laying off all of a sudden was the stupidest decision, ever. My bus was in the bag, Xite's major town cred was assured...Oh wait. I'm town, Xite's town, and you're being an idiot. Open your eyes, read my damn WoTs, and tell me what you think.

I ignore your WOTs cause I don't care what you have to say about me.

I do have 1 question, what is wrong with a pro-town person thinking that a person is scummy if they try to make a huge case to show everyone that he is scum, when he actually isn't

I know what i am and if somebody tries to convince everyone I am something I am not, of course that person gets top of my FOS list.

[Wraith]

This is what I'm talking about. Every single thing I do is scum in their eyes. I'll take a leaf from your book.

Why are you avoiding the questions? Have something to hide?

[Wraith]

EBWOP: And let's not forget to mention the "I play based on OMGUS" at the end there

[Gorrad]

I don't like commenting on a WoT attack on a specific player until they make a counterpost.

[Wraith]

Well, he refuses to make a counterpost, so what we have here is a perfect circle of excuse and counter-excuse.

[Bunnylover]

Wow, amazing. My two WoTs were COMPLETELY ignored. Especially by my primary suspects and wagoneers.

@dana: If Xite was my scumpartner and bussing me then laying off all of a sudden was the stupidest decision, ever. My bus was in the bag, Xite's major town cred was assured...Oh wait. I'm town, Xite's town, and you're being an idiot. Open your eyes, read my damn WoTs, and tell me what you think.

I ignore your WOTs cause I don't care what you have to say about me.

I do have 1 question, what is wrong with a pro-town person thinking that a person is scummy if they try to make a huge case to show everyone that he is scum, when he actually isn't

I know what i am and if somebody tries to convince everyone I am something I am not, of course that person gets top of my FOS list.

But he made two.
One on you and one on Mysterio.
Whats your reasoning for ignoring the post on Mysterio?

[Flameaxe]

Gonna double check activity now.

Following get a prod: @.@, ConfidAnon. Talking to Eek because I know his situation already, so a sudo-prod there.

[UltimaAvalon]

Eek is in this game?

[Gorrad]

No.

[Flameaxe]

Cough, first post.

[Gorrad]

Yes.

[singersigner]

CA was just prodded in another game of mine, too.

I've been busy with band all day today, and it's the first home game tomorrow, so I might have time to post better content mid-afternoon, otherwise I'll be gone all day tomorrow, too. Expect something for sure on Sunday.

[hiphop]

2) Robbn is a poor player. Poor town or poor scum, either way pings people's scumdars. Wraith is not a bad player, I believe. I believe he is a remarkably scummy player.

2.Where do you get you info on wraith? Up to this post How can you justify that Wraith is not a poor player?

@Kise, yes I see what wickedest did there. He's once again avoiding the main wagons for obvious townie points and somehow thinks Wraith is town. First of all, he never explains why he thinks Wraith is town. Furthermore, his fake scumhunting seems to originate from a scum perspective. As a townie, avoiding bandwagons because it might make you look scummy shouldn't even cross your mind. You say my vote on Wraith makes me look scummy?

I don't care[/b]. I'm voting for Wraith because I think he's scum and I support his lynch, I'm not interested in gaining townie points by avoiding wagons. Which looks a lot like what wickedest is doing. He then places a vote on Flinter who has absolutely NO CHANCE of being lynched. It is essentially a throw away vote.

Not making sense. How can you say that scum avoid bw's? There are 7 people either not voting or are the only person on the bw. Are all of them scum? How can you pick one person out of the pack?

@hiphop: Do you still want me to answer that "question" of yours.... (?_?)
Also, how in the world did you expect people to know you were randomly voting Wraith at the top of the game? You carried a serious tone so there's nothing for anyone else to detect randomness behind it. People have had this argument many a time in MD, but I personally don't believe that every game has a set stage that requires everyone to be random. In your case, I think it was just convenient for you to throw down the excuse that your D1 vote was random so you could lazily avoid explaining that wack bandwagon request.

Are you serious? Fine then, I will show how stupid this response is. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Every single post I posted from my wraith vote till you asked me why we should join his wagon.Here is wraith's only post, shall I go on?

I'm glad he likes attention, but I still dont' see wraith as scum. I'd like to see a little more action on the poro wagon, instead of just letting it die down while we all pretend to have opinions on wraith.

Poro is v/la until tomorrow and has been technically all week, I don't know about you, but I want a few more posts from him before I decide on whether to vote him or not.

good, why don't you add your case on your mystery player and what you got from the wagon yesterday to it?

Fine. The mystery player was rob. I had a gut read that Rob was scum based on the current information. However to me, I found nothing in his posts that would indicate to me that he was the best candinate for scum, so i dropped it. I have done it before. Just ask Wicked. In the last game we played i said i was going to put a case on him, this was based off the current day, but after reading his iso, I found that he was indeed town.

And as for the bw - Is it possible to you that sometimes people vote others because the bw's need support? Well that is what it was. The day was going to fast for me, to go find someone else, especially since it would take 13 to lynch. I expediated that process. If you find me scum for that, then vote me. It makes no difference to me.

Do you want him at LyLo? Because I sure as hell don't.

why are you talking about lylo? Things can happen from now till then. Or is it that you are expecting to be in lylo? Because every scum that lives to endgame goes through lylo or mylo.

If kise had a vote on him I would join them, however

vote Mysteria

[xRECKONERx]

blah blah blah prod
blah blah blah out of town this weekend

[Gorrad]

A bad player tries and fails. He's not trying either way. Therefore, he's not bad. He's just scum.

[Xite91]

LOOK AT THE WAY YOU TRY TO DESCRIBE YOURSELF IN THE FIRST PART! ARE YOU SERIOUS?
I don't care where the heck your vote is right now. If all it took was a reading of Wraith's iso to make you flip-flop on him AGAIN, then there's something wrong with you. I find it much more likely that you are just his scumbuddy.
And I laughed at you trying to make everything revolve around wraith in the second part. You couldn't relate hiphop to it, so you just had to say, "oh, he's playing it safe". And strangely enough, Robbnva is VOTING for Wraith right now, so I'm pretty sure he's pushing his wagon, aren't you?

Uhm...yeah? why is that scummy?
read it, then you will see. I already said this. Alright, get enough people to lynch him and when he flips town (as he probably will) try to come after me with that logic.
Uhm, that's what it looked like to me, you asked why it was ironic, I said why. That is all. Uhm, ok? And he's really not, he's just sitting on the most likely wagon. Wagon someone else, watch the magic.

I'm voting for wraith cause I have not seen any reason not to. I voted cause I thought his actions and words were scummy and have not seen any proof that he isn't scum or a convincing argument from anyone

I'm not pushing a wagon cause I'm not telling people or strong arming people to vote wraith

Do you not see this??? This post is him saying, it's the largest wagon, but I won't push it because I don't believe in it.

I think all of this is scummy but I am going to sleep on it, I may be changing my vote in the morning.

I don't like how people broadcast that they may or may nor be as confident in their vote as they want us to think they are. Vote when you feel necessary, stick with it, and stop giving us this bullshit crap about how you "may or may not" feel the same way in the future. No shit, Shirlock. We all "may or may not" change our votes depending on reactions, future scummy/town behavior, etc. Oy vey...

It's a way for him to change his vote if someone else gets wagoned.

As for the posting fluff, a little here and there isn't bad. Look at my interactions with the mod. Holy shit, we posted fluff back and forth! But too much fluff or fluff at an inappropriate time is scummy, although I don't feel that that was. Although this;

Posting fluff
posting fluff



I don't need mommy telling me how to play or what I should or should not post.

was a bit much.

We really need a deadline. This game has become stagnant.

You mean because the lead wagon keeps getting derailed, by the lead promoter.

Sorry if I decided my scumdar was off? I got it working again though. now, add to the game or gtfo

Also, are you people all so stuck in your mindsets, so tunneled on your one or two top suspects,t hat you're not even prepared to listen to alternative cases? I remember a similar reaction when I first made my case on hiphop yesterday and evryone totally ignored it until I jumped up and down and demanded response, and now I'm getting the same thing with my prozac case. Even if you disagree, that kind of info is better than ignoring it totally.

I agree, just look at why anyone is saying I'm scummy.
Also, I saw your case on prozac, and I'd like to see some more posts from him.

That's what I got from two pages of Robb's ISO. I'm not even done yet. But right now I'm tired, especially since I had to do this damn thing twice, so I'll finish later.

Exactly. I had the same problem,

it's just too obvious that he (robbie) is scum if people would just read him in ISO

Anyways, I'll read your mysterio case later cuz I still have a lot to do.

dana: I seem to recall that you are already workign on the assumption that Wraith is scum. Does that mean that you think Xite is bussing?

WAS
Xite was bussing Wraith, imo. He's (she's?) not voting him anymore. It's not 100%, but it's more likely not, and as likely as anything can be at this point.

Again, if Wraith is so obvscum, get him lynched, and then if he flips scum, get me lynched.

I ignore your WOTs cause I don't care what you have to say about me.

I do have 1 question, what is wrong with a pro-town person thinking that a person is scummy if they try to make a huge case to show everyone that he is scum, when he actually isn't

I know what i am and if somebody tries to convince everyone I am something I am not, of course that person gets top of my FOS list.

Holy fucking shit how do people not know you're scum yet?

I don't like commenting on a WoT attack on a specific player until they make a counterpost.

Do you read the thread? Try reading robbie's last post.

[Xite91]

EBWOP by robbie's last post I meant the one I quoted of him.

[Xite91]

@Wraith - I like your case on mystie, except for a few flaws. In a game this large, scum will not be that easily connected to each of their scum partners.
Another thing is that certain players, if scum is not apparent, should always be the lynch because of the MyLo/LyLo factor. They become a distraction and usually end up the mislynch that causes the loss. Honestly, him saying that was probably one of the towniest things I've seen from him this game.
There were a few small things as well, but I forgot what they were and I'm too tired to do a reread cuz it will all blend together, but for the most part I do still like the case just not enough for me to be positive he's scum just yet. Also, seriously, robbie's the lynch today.

[Lowell]

A little more attention to the Poro wagon would be appreciated.

[Xite91]

Also, I saw your case on prozac, and I'd like to see some more posts from him.

read.

[Robbnva]

@xite - I am not pushing a wagon cause pushing wagons are scummy. I post my vote and I am keeping it there, I thought about changing my vote but when I realized that the biggest point I had against hip-hop was based on a comment that was later corrected to make more sense, that vote was worthless.

I am not joining bandwagons just to join them. The only time I took my vote of wraith is when you ran your scummy gambit and once I learned it was fake I went back. That is not scummy that is sticking with my convictions.

where you seem to have bussed your partner and now trying to find somebody else to throw under the bus.

the fact that try and twist my words is funny because you basically said that I said i will join any wagon, which just isn't true.

IMO pushing others to vote for someone (which you have done almost all game) is more scummier than voting for somebody and not waivering on it (which you have waiverd on wraith)

[Robbnva]

Mysterio

(First half is copy-paste because I'm lazy)

In his third post, Mysterio makes a terrible, seemingly random vote against JDodge for scumhunting.

In his fifth, he puts a vote on the growing dana wagon for "failing to prove Furc is scum." This is just him grabbing at a reason to slip onto the wagon. Someone "failing to make a case against someone" is not worth a vote alone. He also claims that dana's reply was worthless, even though the reply referred him to dana's reasons for voting Furc.

He goes on to make several posts defending his flimsy reason for wagoning.

In his Post 11 he votes Frank for tunneling the claimed cop. Let's keep in mind that CA also stated Frank was scummy for tunneling the claimed cop (and later claimed that such insistence was a towntell) but didn't vote for him. Scum trying to keep their options open.

His later posts on Day 1 are him defending Prozac, who is another player that has been jumping around bandwagons all game.

In his Post 17, first one for Day 2, he immeidately jumps on the closest, most popular wagon, me, for "anti-town actions" that he fails to explain. Let's go back a day and remember that he originally voted dana for "failing to explain" his own reasons for suspecting Furcolow. Contradictions, opportunistic voting. Similar arguments to CA, defending Prozac. In his latest post he states how he suspected me in Post 444, but in that post he fails to state why he finds me suspicious. He has never stated why he finds me suspicious and is wagoning based on the cases of his scumbuddies.

In his Post 19, he continues to push my lynch even after I was "daykilled" by Xite. At that point most people (including myself) believed the daykill was genuine. Evidence of Mysterio tunneling the easy target without even considering any other options. Here's a meta-insert from me: Most scum I've seen, especially SSPs, typically tunnel one target at a time, only switching off when the wagon on the target is falling apart or an easier target appears. I've found it rather rare to have scum that do their fake scumhunting on multiple targets, probably because that can get rather risky when you have to fabricate evidence.

I'm starting to wonder why he believes there is "NO" chance of a flinter lynch. He uses wicked's vote on flinter against him as a "throw-away vote." To me, this is scum fabricating flimsy evidence against an obviously townie player.

In his post 25 he suggests that scum derailed my wagon. This is highly unlikely. For one, the wagon is weaker, but it's still strong enough to still carry the day. Secondly, if I was scum, it would be incredibly stupid for my supposed scumbuddies to bail me out at that point. A bus on me would have made the votecount analysis cloudy, because a poor vote reason among many is good cover. In fact, I would have subtly encouraged a bus on me via my own posting of gallons of WIFOM in an attempt to lay down a smokescreen for my scumbuddies to slip on. I attempted this is Mini 1026 but unfortunately one of my teammates didn't catch on and the wagon derailed onto our DSP which was disastrous.

In Posts 26 and 27 he pushes the idea of a Wraith/Flinter scumteam. These are the opening moves of setting up the next mislynch. He is confident that I am scum. What I can't understand, though, is that he knows I'm town, so when I flip town, wouldn't that put a big wrench in your plans. Here's a thought: Mysterio knows he's a dead man. If I'm lynched, I flip town and he dies Day 3. He's trying for one final effort to push my wagon over the edge, taking at least one town down with him. Let's also consider that only 5 or so (of his) posts ago, he was strongly convinced of flinter's towniness. There is the possibility that this is scum trying to distance himself from a partner before being lynched.

Also in Post 27, while he entertains the possibility that flinter is scum, he refuses to vote for her. Fencesitting much? And then he goes on to state that I am a scummy distraction and shouldn't be in LyLo even if I was town. Wanting to lynch someone who could possibly be town = scummy.

Like I've said, I'm probably 90% certain that Mysterio is scum. I believe my vote is still on CA, so:

Unvote Vote: Mysterio

I already said earlier I thought mysterio could be scum, I even voted him when Xite ran his scummy gambit, but the fact that you are pushing Mysterio now makes want to look into Mysterio some more cause if you are scummy which I think you are, you pushing mysterio now could be just an attempt to get the bandwagon off of you.

The fact that you even admitted you played up the overexageration to people voting you so they will actually unvote me is really the iciing on the cake, it was a gambit you ran and has not worked like you thought it would. (and than the cherry on top was telling the cop to investigate you, I have done this all the time when I was scum, especially when I was the GF. It is an attempt to make the cop think you really are innocent and than they won't investigate you. I know this cause every time I have used that the cop never investigated me the next night so I am not buying this either.)

as for your WOT on me, I am not even going to waste my time responding to yet another one on me. I have responded to 2 and anything you have to say about me is discredited because like Xite said, we are allowed to discredit people's opinions so I discredit the opinions of scum.

[Robbnva]

Right now my list of Scum are Wraith and Xite. I still think Mysterio is scum but the fact that Wraith is trying to attack him it could mean they are possibly different scum groups

[Wraith]

Sorry if I was really snappy last night, had a bad day and having my work ignored really didn't help.

Anyways, back to business. Xite, considering this is a large game I'm thinking there's a 4-man mafia at least. One is dead, of course, and because of that I'm fairly positive there's an SK. I'm discounting the possibility of a second mafia because nhammen's flip was simply "mafia goon" and not "red mafia goon" or something. At the moment, my belief on the scumteam is this:

nhammen/Mysterio/Robbnva/Prozac

nhammen was very much a DSP, so we're really lucky the SK chose to kill him. Robbnva and Mysterio are very much SSPs, because they're attempting to keep to the background while trying to keep a mislynch wagon going by discrediting the target piecemeal. Prozac is a tougher call, but my theory ties into your belief that scum would not be so easy to spot together in a large game. I believe Prozac is a mafia power role attempting to distance himself from a failing wagon and flailing scum partners, which is smart. If Prozac isn't the last partner, I'd be somewhat surprised, and after Prozac I'd have to bet on Gorrad as a second DSP.

For now, though, we need to lynch Mysterio. Mysterio's very likely scumflip will give us a lot of needed info and probably change the tune of some buddied townies, which I'm more inclined to believe Gorrad is.

Mod, vote count and deadline please.