NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)

[Shanba]

Vote: Porochaz

Even better. Check out Benmage's 15 and 20. Plus my case from yesterday. Wraith is still a poor lynch.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Porochaz

That is the connection. Poro flipflops with his Wraith read.

I'm comfortable with this lynch.

[Porochaz]

I am currently planning to vote wraith at deadline. If someone could summarise the case on Mysterio Id like to hear it.

I think this is a good place to start; I've read through most of the thread, but I certainly haven't memorized everything, so I'm just going to start asking questions. If I'm missing certain information from the past, please be kind and let me know.

I'm with wraith on this one; this post is deliberately a 180 from your earlier reads on him. Please explain: How did it change and when did you decide a deadline vote on him was a good idea?

It just seems a bit flip-floppy to just change that without a reason. I find Wraith just as scummy as the next guy (loads of AtE, anti-town attitude, basically giving up when a case is presented against him, etc), but you're not too far off.

My 180 on him wasn't really a total 180 but by the stage of nearing deadline, I felt his continuation of Kise's weird Godfather thing and I felt he was just sheeping, my initial opinion of him which I still cant link to was my basis for believing he was town. The reasons why the majority voted for him and the reasons why you find him scummy are not the reasons why I voted for him. However coming down to deadline it was a choice between Mysterio or him, and to be honest I couldn't see the mysterio case at all and I had some problems with Wraith therefore easy choice.

@Shanba, I saw your case and I thought it was okay, but those benmage iso's are poor. What did you do, just search for mention of Benmages mentions of me and note them down without reading?

[Porochaz]

Shame you couldnt just wait a few seconds for my answer...

[DemonHybrid]

That doesn't change my vote. Benmage very clearly defended you and the sudden Wraith suspicion might have been opportunity a-knockin.

I DO NOT like Wraith's play this game with the AtE and self voting, but we're not supposed to be voting for anti-townliness, we're supposed to be voting to kill scum.

Is it in Wraith's meta to do stuff like that?

[evilpacman18]

Quick question: Where do I find saved drafts of posts? I can only find PM drafts. I'ma be pissed if I lost everything I typed so far.

[evilpacman18]

Actually nevermind, it was still on my clipboard. I'm up to Page 10. Dana is obvscum. I don't even care how well he makes up for it in between then and now.

VOTE: danakillsu

Be back tonight.

[Shanba]

Actually, no, prozac. Oddly enough I was looking at Benmage's iso last night. Basically he pushed hard against Frank and then posted a whole lot of "will catch up later" posts. But strangely, despite having almost no time to contribute at all, he finds the time to defend you - twice. He posts like one post of substance at all that day, and it's to defend you. 15 is nowhere near as significant as 20, obviously.

[Porochaz]

I dont know ep

Also I looked deeper into those 2 iso'd posts.

Suspicion:Benmage 15,
Why?: Post in question is about frank OMGUSing me
Why it has absolutely no value in a case against me?: Frank admitted he was omgusing me when he votes me. There is no defending there, more just saying what frank already admitted to

Suspicion: Benmage 20,
Why? Post in question is questioning Shanba's vote on me.
Why it has no value in a case against me? Because at that point Shanba had given virtually no reason beyond "exploring a different avenue". Whilst it might look minorly defensive to some, its still a valid question about Shanba didn't explain the vote.

In other news Im reading through Shanbas case and I dont like it as much as I first thought.

[Porochaz]

Prozac's response to bunnylover struck me as odd, because bunnylover was hardly the only player in the game to have been doing the same tells he commented on. I'd already noticed hiphop and wanted to put him under some pressure, and forming a wagon is better at doing that than an isolated vote, so I tried to coerce prozac into voting with me - and sure enough, he obliges. But then he unvotes and votes frank barely much after with the excuse that hiphop had started to contribute. I still don't see hiphop's contribution there as particularly useful - though his most recent piece of contribution has eased my worries about him somewhat - but the weird thing is that he doesnt go back to bunnylover. Presumably he moved over to hiphop only because bunnylover was worse - so what has changed between the vote for bunnylover and the vote for frank? As far as I can tell, nothing - or at least, nothing that prozac ever explains. I know he was already suspicious of Frank, so I'm not too worried about the Frank vote in particular, it's just I can't follow his thought process on the bunnylover - hiphop - Frank series of votes. Has bunnylover started contributing? I don't think so. When I can't follow someone's thought processes, that often means the cases they are making are in bad faith.

I will vote for the person I find most suspicious at the time, I actually have very little problem with this part of the case. Its understandable, but you will understand that I will vote for the person who I find scummiest at the time. My votes on hiphop and bunny were essentially the same thing. Except I didnt notice hiphop until you said something. Then Frank was Frank. I moved back onto hiphop afterwards.

Similarly, his reaction to the DP cop claim was off. To me, I fairly strongly believed at that point that DP was a townie fakeclaiming given singer's post. It was that or actually cop. I've seen townies pull that (idiotic) gambit before, where they strongly believe a player is fakeclaiming and counterclaim to get them lynched, and I've also seen power roles counterclaim. But I've almost never seen scum counterclaim a power role on day 1. Prozac's been around the block, he knows that too - so why is he implying in his posts that he thinks DP is scum? Again, I can't really follow his thought processes.

Now this I disagree with, and I resent the "round the block" notion. Ive seen scum especially noob scum counterclaim before to get rid of a power role in sacrifice from themselves especially if they fall under pressure which DP did by wanting to lynch the claimed cop. Now that might sound a bit contradictory here. But if you read through the posts on page 25 I think the fact that we knew he was basically fakeclaiming was enough.

And then he revotes hiphop today. The problem I have with this is that yesterday the implication behind his posts is that the reason he switched from hiphop to frank was not because frank started looking scummier but because hiphop started looking townier. But then he revotes him again today. What's the deal?

Townier =/= town. There were people who looked worse than him, and then there wasn't.

[Gorrad]

Shanba, I don't see your case, to be honest. Frank played poorly, and everyone was on his case. That's why we lynched him. I see iso 15 as more an attack on him than a defense of Porochaz. As for 20, are you seriously saying that's defense? You decided to put a vote on someone with no case whatsoever. I don't see how reacting to that adversely is scummy or defending of Poro at all.

You've been tunneling on Porochaz for ages, with what I see as a sequence of poor cases. Today's kill is going to be Wraith, and I'll tell you why. Because, IF Wraith is town, no mafia in their right mind would NK him. He's a scummy claimed vanilla who has come very close to lynch. And if our mysterious second killer was going to do the honor, he would have last night. The only way Wraith is going to die is by lynch, and if we put it off we're only delaying the inevitable.

So sure. Robb's scummy. Maybe Porochaz as well. But either of them could could still be, for one reason or another, killed off at night. There is no good move today that I can see that isn't a Wraith lynch.

[Wickedestjr]

-AH!

[Flameaxe]

-AH!

Finally, someone who reads and follows my rules! +1 to Wickedestjr.

[Shanba]

Holy crap did I just get accused of tunneling by the guy who has done nothing else for the last day and a bit but tunnel on wraith?

Let me put this simply. Wraith is a terrible lynch. Frankly I'm simply astonished that you are so convinced by it - I literally cannot understand your viepoint. Like, at all. Frank was not a great lynch either. Both are simply players playing badly. Prozac is a player comitting scumtells. This is a

clear and obvious difference

. And you're a good player, so what in the name of Woden's Beard is going on?

He's a scummy claimed vanilla who has come very close to lynch. And if our mysterious second killer was going to do the honor, he would have last night. The only way Wraith is going to die is by lynch, and if we put it off we're only delaying the inevitable.

And this? Clear bullshit. We should lynch him because scum won't kill him? Seriously? Are you even listening to yourself any more? ARGH this game.

Prozac, particularly in regards to the second of Benmage's iso things that I am referencing - I don't realy care how weak or strong the written case was against you at that point. What I care about is the fact that a scumbag, who up to that point in time had contributed very very little, decided to take the time out of his day to protect you? WHY DID HE CARE ABOUT MY CASE OR LACK OF CASE ON YOU? He had no horse he was pushing instead, it's just gratuitous defence. I mean, as scum, it's so much easier to squash cases on your buddies before they get big and scary. If he's just trying to play the concerned townie, why isn't he posting about any of the other stuff that's going on that day?

On to the case itself: What you have stated with regards to the frank/hiphop/bunnylurker thing is not what you stated at the time. You stated that hiphop had improved. That doesn't mean that Frank has gotten worse no matter how you try and spin it. What did Frank do between those votes that made you switch back from hiphop to Frank and not back form hiphop to bunnylover?

On the DP thing - one, we did not know for a fact that he was lying right then. In fact, the only reason it became likely that he was lying was because singersigner had said that he lies as VT - which implies that the increase in probability that he is lying came from the possibility that he was a lying VT, not a lying scumbag. I literally cannot see a reason why you would just assume that not only is DP lying in that situation, but that, moreover, he's lying scum!

I also don't really see how, from your perspective, you wouldn't have bunnylover overtaking hiphop again. Nor can I see why you did 0 legwork in looking for other lurkers at all, this game.

[Xite91]

Wickedestjr - Mason - Killed Night Two

The second death was not as much wicked as it was...magical.

Benmage - Mafia Roleblocker - Killed Night Two

I say we just no kill every day and let mafia/other prs kill themselves off /joking

So I have a question, if mafia had a role blocker what would the reason be they did not block Dana? Dana the cop and the only outed PR would have to be mafia's play night 1, yet Dana got a result. This just strikes me as odd

unvote

just need to figure things out.

Because there's obviously more than one pr and mafia would attack someone more likely to cause a problem? I mean, they're counting on people to do exactly what you're doing so that they can have town get rid of the cop. I'm still not too sure that dana is a cop, because if there' only one scumgroup then he would definitely know that he would get an inno on me. That being said I think I know who's killing scum, don't worry I won't tell

You've been tunneling on Porochaz for ages, with what I see as a sequence of poor cases. Today's kill is going to be Wraith, and I'll tell you why. Because, IF Wraith is town, no mafia in their right mind would NK him. He's a scummy claimed vanilla who has come very close to lynch. And if our mysterious second killer was going to do the honor, he would have last night. The only way Wraith is going to die is by lynch, and if we put it off we're only delaying the inevitable.

So... you're trying to get wraith killed because.... he won't die any other way? How does that say he's scum?

Major FoS: Gorrad

Also,

Vote; Robbie

It

was

obvious I was going to do that right?

[Xite91]

@Shanba, I have to read 1538 later, but the only real scum feeling I get from him is a gut one based on how he talks... I really can't vote him for that just yet

[Bunnylover]

@Xite: I think you misunderstood him. I believe he was saying, people are going to constantly be voting against Wraith, which will allow scum to have a bigger chance of lynching someone else they want gone. If we continue to allow Wraith to live, he is going to continue be a thorn in our side, until someone find out his role.

[Lowell]

vote poro

. I was so hoping to be still alive and able to do this. I don't like the coasting at all yesterday.

[Wraith]

Wicked was so obvtown I'm surprised he wasn't killed earlier.

I'm starting to get serious scumcop vibes from dana.

More later.

[Shanba]

Unfortunately, he's hardly the only one to have coasted this game.

Lots of things flooding my mind now. UA, today you need to add something. I don't care if you have gut suspicions that you can't quite crystallise, you need to add something concrete to proceedings. Robbnva, remind me where we have any evidence of a roleblocker at all? End of yesterday replacements (Antihero, MME and the like): please tell me you caught up overnight?

[Robbnva]

Unfortunately, he's hardly the only one to have coasted this game.

Lots of things flooding my mind now. UA, today you need to add something. I don't care if you have gut suspicions that you can't quite crystallise, you need to add something concrete to proceedings.

Robbnva, remind me where we have any evidence of a roleblocker at all?

End of yesterday replacements (Antihero, MME and the like): please tell me you caught up overnight?

seriously did you not read who was killed last night? Mafia roleblocker was killed.

this is why I think dana could be scum cop or not a cop at all. I was just in another game on this site where the cop was mafia cop and everyone trusted him.

if I was mafia roleblocker dana would have been blocked, period end of story.
the fact dana got a result is fishy.

[Shanba]

Unfortunately, he's hardly the only one to have coasted this game.

Lots of things flooding my mind now. UA, today you need to add something. I don't care if you have gut suspicions that you can't quite crystallise, you need to add something concrete to proceedings.

Robbnva, remind me where we have any evidence of a roleblocker at all?

End of yesterday replacements (Antihero, MME and the like): please tell me you caught up overnight?

seriously did you not read who was killed last night? Mafia roleblocker was killed.

this is why I think dana could be scum cop or not a cop at all. I was just in another game on this site where the cop was mafia cop and everyone trusted him.

if I was mafia roleblocker dana would have been blocked, period end of story.
the fact dana got a result is fishy.

:egg on face: My bad.

[Wraith]

Okay, I had my suspicions of dana as Day 2 dragged on, mostly revolving around the fact that he never really had a reason for voting me beyond what everyone else said, and avoided the question TWICE when I put it to him. This post is what pushed me over the edge:

Inno on Xite was my result. I didn't investigate Wraith because I figured it would be too obvious and scum might be able to affect it somehow (like a lawyer or framer). So I wish to lynch Wraith like we should have yesterday. vote: Wraith

Let me get this straight: you didn't want to investigate me (and therefore prove my innocence) because you thought a scum framer could frame me? And then you want to lynch me anyway despite thinking the MAFIA would frame me?

Vote: danakillsu

[Robbnva]

Okay, I had my suspicions of dana as Day 2 dragged on, mostly revolving around the fact that he never really had a reason for voting me beyond what everyone else said, and avoided the question TWICE when I put it to him. This post is what pushed me over the edge:

Inno on Xite was my result. I didn't investigate Wraith because I figured it would be too obvious and scum might be able to affect it somehow (like a lawyer or framer). So I wish to lynch Wraith like we should have yesterday. vote: Wraith

Let me get this straight: you didn't want to investigate me (and therefore prove my innocence) because you thought a scum framer could frame me? And then you want to lynch me anyway despite thinking the MAFIA would frame me?

Vote: danakillsu

I actually like this logic, however because it is coming from you I am reluctant to do this but since I was the one who originally pointed out the role-blocking I am comfortable doing this

Vote dana

[Gorrad]

Holy crap did I just get accused of tunneling by the guy who has done nothing else for the last day and a bit but tunnel on wraith?

Let me put this simply. Wraith is a terrible lynch. Frankly I'm simply astonished that you are so convinced by it - I literally cannot understand your viepoint. Like, at all. Frank was not a great lynch either. Both are simply players playing badly. Prozac is a player comitting scumtells. This is a

clear and obvious difference

. And you're a good player, so what in the name of Woden's Beard is going on?

He's a scummy claimed vanilla who has come very close to lynch. And if our mysterious second killer was going to do the honor, he would have last night. The only way Wraith is going to die is by lynch, and if we put it off we're only delaying the inevitable.

And this? Clear bullshit. We should lynch him because scum won't kill him? Seriously? Are you even listening to yourself any more? ARGH this game.

1) Yes. You're tunneling. I'm doing some as well, sure, but I'm also looking hard at Robb.

2) I don't see these scumtells. I honestly don't. I see Wraith, who has actively detracted from the town since D1. If he was bad town, he'd be like Mysterio (and yes, Frank) and trying to contribute.

3) Bunny has it right. As long as he is not lynched, he's going to be a scummy distraction. He's going to continue to be a detriment to the town. There is no way short of cop confirmation that he will be cleared. If he's not lynched today, he'll be a distraction tomorrow. Repeat ad nauseum. Way to misrepresent me, dude.