Open 250 - Pie E7 - Game Over! Scum Win

[Vi]

@VP Baltar: That's actually a good answer.

Also, I approve of this abuse of the smiley.

1) like the lynch he was on yesterday?...
2) like how he was leaning before the massclaim?

1) L-1 on page 2 was not intended to be a big deal (albeit a badly needed conversation starter). Only morons who can't read obvious L-1 warnings or opportunistic scum would make L-1 a big deal by hammering.
2) Given that you demonstrated that you were not a moron who can't read obvious L-1 warnings, and coupling that with your implausibly bad excuses for hammering, you plunged into obvious scum territory.
THIS IS WHY I'VE BEEN WANTING TO SLAP THE SCREAM OFF OF YOUR AVATAR SINCE THE MOMENT YOU BECAME A CONFIRMED TOWNIE and why I want you to SHUT UP. You can't semideliberately play like the VI plague and then claim poor, pitiful you were framed.

Cut by VP Baltar--Well, that.

[jasonT1981]

Vote Count 1 Day 2

No one Voting

With 5 Alive, It takes 3 to Lynch.

oh, and I am back

[VP Baltar]

Alright, so my conclusion is that ckd is not willing to vote npau at this point. I don't think I'm willing to vote Vi at this point. The answer seems rather obvious then who needs to die. I think I'm ready to vote if you are ckd.

[sottyrulez]

Why is CKD's positions on who he's not willing to vote for important to you? His alignment doesn't make him any more likely to be right than anyone else.

You seem more interested in going after who appears more likely to be lynched than actually pushing a case for who you think is truly scum.

[sottyrulez]

preview edit:

I suppose I have gone after nopoint slightly more, but that's also partially because I find that I have to string Sottyrulez out more on their own. Nopoint is reacting and posting big walls (almost strictly about me mind you), so that is no effort. Sotty is probably a tougher nut to crack, so it involves more observation. Needless to say, I don't care for how either of them have approached today. I get a survivalist vibe from both, which I expect from scum.

Right out of the ol book of scumtells. Perhaps you can tell me why you would expect a survivalist vibe from scum when a town lynch today will result in a scum win and a scum lynch won't?

Your point there is just wrong.

[sottyrulez]

EBWOP: when a town lynch today will result in a scum win and a scum lynch won't? (A scum lynch won't result in a town win today.)

Added to clarify point.

[sottyrulez]

On the other hand, maybe we should just lynch Sotty. For some reason I completely missed that they IGNORED MY ENTIRE POST TO THEM W/ QUESTIONS

You realize you barely asked us any questions in that post? I see three questions. We answered one, we had already answered the question about the doc, The other question was more you pushing your BS argument asking how it was crap when we had already detailed WHY it was in our last post.

But hey, it's funny how you only bring this up now to make us look “worse” as you swing with CKD's wind. Pretty weak.

[curiouskarmadog]

@VP Baltar: That's actually a good answer.

Also, I approve of this abuse of the smiley.

1) like the lynch he was on yesterday?...
2) like how he was leaning before the massclaim?

1) L-1 on page 2 was not intended to be a big deal (albeit a badly needed conversation starter). Only morons who can't read obvious L-1 warnings or opportunistic scum would make L-1 a big deal by hammering.
2) Given that you demonstrated that you were not a moron who can't read obvious L-1 warnings, and coupling that with your implausibly bad excuses for hammering, you plunged into obvious scum territory.
THIS IS WHY I'VE BEEN WANTING TO SLAP THE SCREAM OFF OF YOUR AVATAR SINCE THE MOMENT YOU BECAME A CONFIRMED TOWNIE and why I want you to SHUT UP. You can't semideliberately play like the VI plague and then claim poor, pitiful you were framed.

Cut by VP Baltar--Well, that.

hey man, I am just commenting on VP commenting on "why would VIscum do X", i am saying that you are not that towny looking, and I understand the only reason I am alive today is because of the claim...I get it...and AGAIN, my play yesterday was a VI type of play...I really was scum hunting...I wanted to see who would attack me (especially those actually on the wagon) for my vote pre flip (that wasnt suppose to happen)..not to mention it would have really gotten conversation started on page 2...anyway, it is what it is.

[curiouskarmadog]

I am probably ready to vote...but then again maybe not..

sotty you are complaining about lack of questions, but are there any questions you need answered/..your thoughts on the game and who is scum?

[VP Baltar]

Why is CKD's positions on who he's not willing to vote for important to you? His alignment doesn't make him any more likely to be right than anyone else.

Well, I know he may not be more right (I disagree with him about nopoint), but the difference between him and anyone else in the game is that I can at least trust what he's saying as his honest opinion. That counts for a lot.

You seem more interested in going after who appears more likely to be lynched than actually pushing a case for who you think is truly scum.

What? I've been saying pretty clearly all day who I think is scum and who my preferred lynches are.

Perhaps you can tell me why you would expect a survivalist vibe from scum when a town lynch today will result in a scum win and a scum lynch won't?

Your point there is just wrong.

I don't know what the ol' book of scumtells is or what scumtell you're referring to exactly, but when I said survivalist vibe I mean that you're trying to skate through the day without being lynched (which by definition would mean that a town gets lynched and you'd win). You're not doing anything to find scum. You're playing defense and hoping to make it out alive. Don't see what was unclear about that.

You realize you barely asked us any questions in that post? I see three questions. We answered one, we had already answered the question about the doc, The other question was more you pushing your BS argument asking how it was crap when we had already detailed WHY it was in our last post.

But hey, it's funny how you only bring this up now to make us look “worse” as you swing with CKD's wind. Pretty weak.

You didn't answer the doc question at all. You dodged it before, therefore I asked you again. Additionally you didn't address anything I said about your scum game examples being irrelevant to this situation....which I suspect is because you don't want to argue that point. You essentially glanced over the entire post to talk about my posting theory for you two.

[Vi]

Alright, so my conclusion is that ckd is not willing to vote npau at this point. I don't think I'm willing to vote Vi at this point. The answer seems rather obvious then who needs to die. I think I'm ready to vote if you are ckd.

Likewise. At this point if VP Baltar is scum my jaw will drop.

[nopointinactingup]

I'll come to a conclusion at this point.

The scum team is VP Baltar and Vi.

1st scum found. Why VP Baltar is scum?

1> My ISO on him reveals persistent insinuations and soft accusation on CKD without actually taking a firm stance.
2> His inconsistent behavior in regards to his evidenceful but wishy washy stance on CKD when claims are muddy vs his irrational yet firm stance on me and Sotty when CKD is revealed to be doctor.
3> CKD post #80 suggests Sotty to pick the first pop corn claim but VP Baltar jumped in on post #81 and asked for my claim first --> Possible attempt to jump on the best claim position. Think about it, the mere fact that he claims last would earn him town cred in your eyes whether he counterclaimed or not so DON'T consider it a town-tell.

2nd scum Vi found via connection with VP Baltar

1> Soft backing VP's possible claim plan

Vi and nopoint, let's hear your votes on who should claim first.

npau, I guess.

2> Constantly backing VP with WIFOM and soft defense ( not resolute defense ).

Then ckd asked me why I brought it up before VP Baltar claimed, and over the weekend I realized there was another side to it.

VPB-scum would have had a very easy time counterclaiming ckd for the win (although he likely didn't need my input to determine how likely people would have been to believe him). Alternatively, VPB-scum could NOT counterclaim and attack me along ckd's lines

. He didn't do either. This leads me to believe he's more likely Town.

WIFOM

*The reason is that

he was "busy with life". Not "the game has only gone on so long"

. It's a semantic difference but it sounds like he was avoiding the thread.
*He immediately and reactively attacks you. It's rhetoric, and not the good kind. Plus I'm not sure how one can "latch onto" one's own argument, but whatever.

sottyrulez did something similar with "This is weak.", although FWIW they at least acknowledged the time constraint. In addition,

See a lurker lynch also takes relatively little effort as well.

This was addressed to you. But if I'm your top Town read and the other two are "lurkers", etc.

Basically, they've overreacted heavily to the main "threat" in the game.

That's what stands out most to me. It also eases my decision to trust you >.>

If you are so inclined on believing in WIFOM wouldn't you agree that if me and Sotty were partners, we would go for you instead of VP, whom CKD believes?

With that said, I regret to inform myself that I didn't think this through.

And if you're going to be lynched anyway, why not expose the Doctor along the way?

This would have been ckd's scum motivation for claiming Doctor. There really WASN'T any chance of a turnabout in the case of ckd-Town/VPB-scum both claiming Doctor, because even claiming Doctor was scummy for ckd. I would have thrown a vote down for him.

So ultimately I have to agree that the move makes no sense for VPB-scum,

even if it means agreeing with the piteous one.

WIFOM reasoning, though he addressed this already.

And from your perspective it shouldn't really matter since you believe me to be town anyhow.

More likely than not. But then if you think I'm more likely than not Town, it shouldn't matter to you for the same reason.

Of course, if we're both Town this is a stupid thing to disagree over.

@VP Baltar:

That's actually a good answer.

Also, I approve of this abuse of the smiley.

gives no reasoning as to why it is a good answer.

Alright, so my conclusion is that ckd is not willing to vote npau at this point. I don't think I'm willing to vote Vi at this point. The answer seems rather obvious then who needs to die. I think I'm ready to vote if you are ckd.

Likewise.

At this point if VP Baltar is scum my jaw will drop.

Note that Vi's reasonings are because he thinks VP's town, Npau and Sotty has to be scum. That is a typical scum reasoning to avoid scrunity. In addition, though he posted a lot of soft defense implying VP is town, his only real reasoning for it is the WIFOM that VP would have counterclaimed if he was scum.
No reasoning for why that post indicate VP-town.

Note: They are very dismissive of my godfather post in order not to commit.

the fact that nopoint thought there was a GF in the game, makes me think he is not the lynch today.

meh. I don't really find that all that persuasive, but I see where you're coming from.

I'm not sure about whether npau's Godfather post is indicative of alignment. As scum I wouldn't deliberately be ignorant of an Open setup, but I wouldn't accidentally be ignorant of an Open setup as Town either, so I don't really know what to do with it.

CKD, it's up to you now to win the game for us. I encourage you to reread in a more objective manner and you will find that VP is likely scum and that Vi has an undeniable connection with him. I'm ONLY willing to vote either VP or Vi today.

[Vi]

Re: choosing npau to claim first - At the time I had the same sentiment you did - "Why can't the Doctor just claim outright?" I didn't really have a preference and have seen attempts at massclaiming take entire weeks (in one-week deadline BaM setups no less ) so I chose whichever name would get it to go faster after hyperskimming who had been named already. Nothing personal.

Re: WIFOM - WIFOM is not scummy. WIFOM is me taking a situation that isn't absolutely indicative of alignment (like, say, almost anything in Mafia) and making my best judgment about it. The arguments against my conclusions are not only improbable, but even when I've considered them they've been blasted away by VPB.

Re: Going for me instead of VPB - At first VP Baltar was the only one threatening you due to my weekend getaway and my concentration on him. I only showed up on the radar when I finally committed to VP Baltar's side.

Re: "That's a good answer" - I'm a hypercritical person with anxiety issues. If there was cause for doubt after VP Baltar's response, I would not have said it was a good answer. Obviously you disagree - like all the times you've called WIFOM - but I have no understanding of why.

Re: Godfather comment - I have committed to saying that it's null.

Re: No reason to believe VP Baltar is Town except for the lack of counterclaim - The lack of counterclaim is a fairly big swing, but you're overlooking how I've been questioning VP Baltar both before and after I decided to say he's probobvTown - fairly constantly post-massclaim. The only answer he gave me that I thought was dubious involved his questioning of Equinox. Or is believing anything anyone says more WIFOM?

Re: Connection with VP Baltar and only wanting to lynch sotty/you because you're not VP Baltar - Well, yes. It's called "process of elimination". I even outlined this immediately after the massclaim:

Now for THE MECHANISM, or this game's trump card. (...)

For the (uncounterclaimed) Doctor,

[the chance of voting scum at random]

is indeed 50/50.
For everyone else - say, ME for instance(...)--the chance is actually

two in three

of finding scum. If I can find a secure Townie, as far as I'm concerned the game may as well be over.

[VP Baltar]

I think I'm done responding to the WIFOM machine.

Vote: Sottyrulez

Hell be damned if I'm wrong (but I doubt I am).

[sottyrulez]

I think I'm done responding to the WIFOM machine.

So ironic.

Vote: VP

[VP Baltar]

I've yet to see those responses from you...so the irony is lost on me.

[curiouskarmadog]

line

sand

drawn

[VP Baltar]

yeah, I've been stalking this thread all day to see if Vi and nopoint try to quick hammer. Plan to continue most of the night too. Got my tab open with an unvote in case they try it.

[Vi]

yeah, I've been stalking this thread all day to see if Vi and nopoint try to quick hammer. Plan to continue most of the night too. Got my tab open with an unvote in case they try it.

It's hard for me to quick-anything with my schedule. That aside, your confidence in me is... not that reassuring at all

What would you like for me to do, VPB?

[curiouskarmadog]

if for some reason you two are scum together..and you are trying to see when each other will post...I will be pissed...I dont think that is the case....but man...pissed.

also stalking the thread to see who votes when....I can say that cause i am cleared I guess, but interested in no points vote.

[nopointinactingup]

It's hard for me to quick-anything with my schedule. That aside, your confidence in me is... not that reassuring at all

What would you like for me to do, VPB?

Same with me. I'm also very concerned with VP's confidence in Vi based on thin air.
The only point where VP Baltar said anything about Vi is town is
-->

This is largely directed at ckd, but anyone else may consider as they see fit. I'm currently thinking we should lynch nopoint today. I asked Vi who she would prefer to lynch for a very specific reasoning, that being to lynch the opposite person she chose.

Which is not at all convincing.

[nopointinactingup]

Forgot this

yeah, I've been stalking this thread all day to see if Vi and nopoint try to quick hammer. Plan to continue most of the night too. Got my tab open with an unvote in case they try it.

And why are you telling us this? If you're not doing it in discreet, there's no point in doing it at all. So that posts make me think you are once again softly town-cred hunting.

[VP Baltar]

Well, that seals it. Sotty is scum 100% for sure. ckd and Vi, take care of bidness plz.

@nopoint - The Bell Tolls for Thee next.

[VP Baltar]

Also, it should be clear by now that I wasn't really stalking the thread last night. Just a threat Though today is Friday, so you never know if I really will be today.

Anyhow, I think it somewhat weird that neither Vi or no point voted last night. Why's that guys?

[curiouskarmadog]

here is my problem, I can see sotty as scum.......but really only with Vi....

my gut (which still lingers with this) is worried that VP is still scum, but really I only see it with Vi...(I agree with nopoint that I have no clue why VP is certain Vi is not scum)

the common factor there, is Vi, so it should only make sense that I vote Vi.

Vote Vi