Open 250 - Pie E7 - Game Over! Scum Win

[sottyrulez]

Vote: Vi

God, that is satisfying.

Unvote, Vote: Sottyrulez

Obv scum going to try and bus itself. Kill it with fire.

Vote: Saintkerrigan

Cause he said he was going to quit playing mafia and he's a LIAR.

[sottyrulez]

Hey Sottyrulez, who will be posting predominately for you guys or will it be even? Are you going to sign your posts or no?

I will imagine the posting will be even between myself and Zach. We're a hive mind when we hydra, keeping things as simple as possible. If we both have different opinions we'll talk it over before coming up with a direction to go in thread. By the time that happens it tends not to be important who makes the actual post.

We can sign the posts if that's what you all want.

-Sotty.

[sottyrulez]

Putting CKD's hammer to one side for a moment lets talk about massclaim.

Seeing the cop flip puts a spanner in the works because massclaim does nothing but outs the doc to be killed with no pro of getting a cop result. However, if the doc claims and we no counter we get a confirmed townie and a 50/50 chance of lynching scum out of the remaining four players.

If the doc claims and scum counters for the attempted quick win, it is also a 50/50 chance at lynching scum.

We think that it would be better to go for the 50% chance of lynching scum rather than a 40%. After the stupidly quick day that was yesterday, every little bit helps.

Thoughts?

[sottyrulez]

also, no one is answering my question how to look up old games...VP any clue how?..do games only go back to 2008?

Try this. I used it to complete my wiki, finding games all the way back from when I first joined.

As for the hammer, it looks purely intentional to me. Almost as if you saw the lynch-1 vote and wanted to take a crack to see if you hit power. You provide the town with no information and hope to WIFOM your way out of it like you are now. On top of that you say “Vi is never wrong” as if attempting to place blame at her feet while hammering. Yet another out for you.

Really I think you are pulling a gambit here and trying to get us to look past you simply because you miss spelled the name. I don't buy it. If you did PM the mod, why didn't you wait to see if he would or would not accept the vote?

I think you're scum trying for a quick win.

[sottyrulez]

The game does give you some creditability, but the sticking point for me is why didn't you wait to hear back from the mod? From your explanation in your last post, it sounds like you PM'ed the mod first and made sure it was okay first, before trying your gambit. Why not this time round?

I just see too much motive for scum wanting a quick day to try and hit power and screw the town over all in one go.

[sottyrulez]

We think CKD should be claiming first.

[sottyrulez]

Townie.

CKD next.

[sottyrulez]

I don't buy CKD's town gambit at all. No mod would allow voting tricks like that. I think there are more incentives for scum to have made a quick hammer like that in this game, where there is a godfather, thus CKD is likely godfather.

As for mass claiming, I don't see any reason not to. If we mislynch today a doctor wouldn't help either way so I say the doctor comes out and claim.

Well after this post, I can't really see nopoint being scum, and CKD is cleared as the uncountered doctor, so the scum would have to be Vi and VP Baltar.

[sottyrulez]

lol, I hope you don't think I'm that arrogant.

My biggest thing about Sottyrulez and nopoint is their general level of hesitance. I know we haven't had much discussion this game, but they don't seem to have said much at all. nopoint in particular.

This is weak. Day 1 ended on page 2, and day 2 up to this point has been about mass claiming, so there really hasn't been any real opportunity to get any kind of footing in the game outside of any of that.

[sottyrulez]

sweet god, I did not see that coming at all...well, now that I am cleared, we are going to actually scum hunt...

I cant see VPscum, not counter claiming doc....it was pretty much a slam dunk that I was going to be lynched and a doc claim from him would have sealed the deal...unless he just wanted to extend this out and demostrate his scum skills....

going to reread (all 5 pages.)

This is also WIFOM.

Also in recent experience I've been in 2 mafia games where scum have done something that doesn't make sense to get town cred. Bussing both their scumbuddies on day 1 and 2 (and the kicker on day 2 was that the scum could have hammered a townie.) and more recently in a newbie game where the mafia goon hammered the mafia roleblocker before it was certain what setup was in play (and he also was in a position to hammer a townie.)

So I don't buy that VP is clear because he could have more easily countered the doctor. (Especially because for all he knows the town could have decided that that CKD was too easy of an answer.)

There's also a few quotes from VP that bother me.

Mass claim is probably a worthwhile idea today since we're screwed anyhow. I don't see much of a downside other than hoping against hope that the doc would have a successful protect tonight, and I'd rather increase our chances of lynching scum than I would gamble on that at the moment.

Then again, we could also lynch ckd out of stupidity and play the game again with a reroll if we're wrong.

Ckd, links to said games where that move worked please.

Entertains the notion of simply lynching CKD.

Well, ckd is claiming precedence as his reasoning for doing it, which is what I'm asking him to prove. The idea of fake voting is not something new, I just don't necessarily believe what he's saying as his reasoning. And screwed was hyperbole of course, but we're certainly in a very poor position game wise at the moment.

@ckd - I don't recall calling you scum at all. I'm simply trying to find out your reasoning. Did something I said make you think I'm calling you scum?

Seems like you're backing off here a bit after fanning the flames on CKD. You were heavily implying that he was scum during post 56, talking about CKD's own rule set not fitting in with his play. Now it looks like you were trying to make CKD look as bad as possible without committing yourself either way.

Your reasoning and logic behind doing it are slightly ridiculous, you must admit.

That being said, I'm not certain you are scum. nopoint really bothers me right now actually. But first thing's first, let's get this mass claim going and improve our odds slightly. I'd prefer nopoint claiming first actually.

See a lurker lynch also takes relatively little effort as well.

I have been busy with life. Latching on to arguments like this to propel your mislynch aren't you?

You and everybody else. Not really an excuse to post no content whatsoever. Also, if I was scum trying to propel a mislynch, I would have just counter claimed ckd. It would have taken approximately -0 effort to get a mislynch on him had he been counter claimed.

Defending self with CKD's argument, and the defense is WIFOM. Plus as pointed out earlier, a lurker lynch also requires little effort.

[sottyrulez]

I've been trying. Vi has been trying. Granted it's not as much as a normal game, but why the excuse making?

How is it an excuse when it's exactly what happened? The game has to be open and we have to be around to actually post.

As for today, you're trying to vilify us for "not trying" during massclaim. I mean really? When you massclaim, you don't actually do anything until everyone has claimed.

[sottyrulez]

Were either of these scum in a position to win the game. If not, then I don't even see how this evidence is related.

Scum won both games.

On a scale of 1-10, how serious do you think I was being?

I'd say five. By that you worded in such a way that allows you to dismiss it as a joke or roll with it if the town wanted too.

I was actually playing the game trying to figure out if he was scum or not, yes. Where were you at?

Excellent deflection. (Yes I know what I did there.)

lol. so your argument is that because I was stating suspicions of people in the game, I was being scummy?

Err no. Try again.

Vi was a town read and I didn't really have a good read on your slot because you've been pretty innocuous this game. Thankfully, ckd being clear makes this much easier and I can see you scrambling now for an out.

An out how? If we are so “innocuous” like you say, what would we need an out for?

Let me ask your hydra, what motivation do you think I would have had for not CCing ckd at that point? Who would you have believed more easily was the real doctor?

It comes down to WIFOM. We refuse to believe you are cleared just because it would have been easier for scum to have counterclaimed CKD. Especially with this player list. The fact you seemed to leave yourself open for CKD being town when everyone else thought he was scum twigs our scumdar too. You seemed to know he was town and after he claimed doc you rolled with it.

We don't think that you pushing on “lurkers” after is a coincidence, especially the nopoint push. Combine this with your weak attack on us and all together it spells scum to us.

Also, why does it matter now who is posting? Earlier you said it didn't matter but now it does? Do you find one of us easier to discredit than the other?

As I acknowledged in my post, I'm well aware that the game hasn't been open much. That being said, what you did post on Day 1 was just random vote and answering a question from me. No effort to start the discussion. Now, perhaps you didn't look at the game at all that Sunday, but my point is that in the few posts you did have you weren't exactly spurring the game on. I can only go on what I see. I asked questions. Vi asked questions. Ckd is confirmed town. What other conclusion can I draw from the evidence I have?

If you look over both of our metas it will show that on weekends our posting goes down considerably. Just like this weekend. Now that the football season has started Sundays are going to be even worse, we literally spend all the day either watching the games or doing other family stuff. The fact the whole of day one lasted over Saturday and Sunday is why we basically missed it. The fact you are trying to make this scummy is pretty outstanding. It would be one thing if the day lasted a little while longer and we lurked. But that just isn't true.

Then you keep trying to qualify the point by saying “I acknowledged day wasn't that long BUT...” It's a BS point. We know it, you know it, yet you keep banging that drum. Why?

= = = = =

In other news, Vi doesn't seem to be doing

anything

. Post 117 was what exactly? A conclusion that VP is likely town but zero pressure to the left over scum picks. That isn't Vi like at all. Her follow up posts are also lacking any kind of real push unless she is backing out of her VP town mind set.

It is looking very much like the scum are VP and Vi.

[sottyrulez]

I have theories. Theories that have nothing to do with discrediting. Feel free to answer.

Just to hear these theories I'm gonna answer.

The initial spam posts of our case on you were made by Zach. The subsequent follow up that you just replied to was by me (Sotty). I thought it was pretty obvious honestly, but then I don't think you have played a ton of games with Zach.

At this point we are just about ready to place our vote, we're mostly going around in circles here. Waiting on more input from nopoint before we leap as well as VP's answer to the above.

[sottyrulez]

Why is CKD's positions on who he's not willing to vote for important to you? His alignment doesn't make him any more likely to be right than anyone else.

You seem more interested in going after who appears more likely to be lynched than actually pushing a case for who you think is truly scum.

[sottyrulez]

preview edit:

I suppose I have gone after nopoint slightly more, but that's also partially because I find that I have to string Sottyrulez out more on their own. Nopoint is reacting and posting big walls (almost strictly about me mind you), so that is no effort. Sotty is probably a tougher nut to crack, so it involves more observation. Needless to say, I don't care for how either of them have approached today. I get a survivalist vibe from both, which I expect from scum.

Right out of the ol book of scumtells. Perhaps you can tell me why you would expect a survivalist vibe from scum when a town lynch today will result in a scum win and a scum lynch won't?

Your point there is just wrong.

[sottyrulez]

EBWOP: when a town lynch today will result in a scum win and a scum lynch won't? (A scum lynch won't result in a town win today.)

Added to clarify point.

[sottyrulez]

On the other hand, maybe we should just lynch Sotty. For some reason I completely missed that they IGNORED MY ENTIRE POST TO THEM W/ QUESTIONS

You realize you barely asked us any questions in that post? I see three questions. We answered one, we had already answered the question about the doc, The other question was more you pushing your BS argument asking how it was crap when we had already detailed WHY it was in our last post.

But hey, it's funny how you only bring this up now to make us look “worse” as you swing with CKD's wind. Pretty weak.

[sottyrulez]

I think I'm done responding to the WIFOM machine.

So ironic.

Vote: VP

[sottyrulez]

The lack of the quick hammer just proves VP is WIFOMscum.

We know CKD is cleared so that leaves Vi and nopoint.

Nopoint has said he isn't voting for anyone other than Vi, or VP. He has been pretty clear about that.

Vi has done nothing but fence sit and not fully commit herself. Saying she would vote for us because it is the “satisfying option” is weak. She is leaving her options open.

It's pretty clear the team is Vi+VP.

[sottyrulez]

VP, I can't help but notice that in all your argument about the possibility of us being quick hammered, you ignore the possibility of you yourself being quickhammered.