Open 250 - Pie E7 - Game Over! Scum Win

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Post Post #5  (isolation #0)  » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:02 am

/confirm
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Post Post #6  (isolation #1)  » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:04 am

Also, congrats on the baby, ckd!

Waiting for Sottyrulez to get here so I can vote them :)
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Post Post #9  (isolation #2)  » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:20 am

@jason - yeah, I really like the story arc for the Gaius Baltar character in the show and I was watching it at the time that i signed up for my mafia account :P
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Post Post #12  (isolation #3)  » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:19 am

jasonT1981 wrote:Love the show, just finished season 2... Baltar is an epic character

OK, One more confirm and game will start.

Aw, you're lucky just going through it for the first time. The ending of the series was kind of meh for me, but Season 3 is nothing but epic.
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Post Post #16  (isolation #4)  » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:41 pm

Vote: Vi

God, that is satisfying.

Unvote, Vote: Sottyrulez

Obv scum going to try and bus itself. Kill it with fire.
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Post Post #23  (isolation #5)  » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:37 pm

SK wrote:I also said later that I'd likely do one more game before I left the site. Well, here's that game.

You'll be back...they always come back.

Hey Sottyrulez, who will be posting predominately for you guys or will it be even? Are you going to sign your posts or no?
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Post Post #26  (isolation #6)  » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:32 am

Signing posts isn't absolutely necessary. I always forget to do it when I hydra until approximately 0.000001 seconds after I hit the submit button. I was just curious.
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Post Post #27  (isolation #7)  » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:35 am

@Equinox - how would you self describe your playstyle? If you could daykill anyone from the start of this game with no repercussions, who would it be? Do you prefer chocolate or vanilla ice cream?
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Post Post #51  (isolation #8)  » Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:08 pm

Mass claim is probably a worthwhile idea today since we're screwed anyhow. I don't see much of a downside other than hoping against hope that the doc would have a successful protect tonight, and I'd rather increase our chances of lynching scum than I would gamble on that at the moment.

Then again, we could also lynch ckd out of stupidity and play the game again with a reroll if we're wrong. :P

Ckd, links to said games where that move worked please.
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Post Post #56  (isolation #9)  » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:35 pm

It's not wifom because you stated the reason you did it was because you had successfully done it before. I want links.

ckd wrote:VP are you saying you have never seen anyone fake hammer before? What was stupid about my play? I did not know the mod would except a vote on a player that wasnt in the game (why i deliberately mispelled name).

1) I don't remember seeing it any games I've played other than broken [b] tags maybe. Certainly not like how you did it. It was stupid because look where we are now. Call me old fashioned, but you could have let us get at least some information out of the day instead of putting us at an immediate disadvantage. The fact that you didn't read the rules prior to trying your "trick" also makes it stupid, as most mods these days accept misspellings of names as long as it's clear who you intended to vote. I mean, even if I look at your own rules set from Dark Goma Mafia, I don't see anything about needing to spell names correctly. So, ultimately I don't see why you assumed your move would work here.

ckd wrote:why would you want to take a loss on a game without trying?
Even though I count my wins and losses in my wiki, I generally don't care too much about that ratio other than as a self-assessment tool to see if I need improvement in certain areas and as a record for posterity. Losing a game like this isn't going to hurt my feelings too much. That being said, it was mostly a joke, as indicated by the :P
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Post Post #63  (isolation #10)  » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:03 pm

Well, ckd is claiming precedence as his reasoning for doing it, which is what I'm asking him to prove. The idea of fake voting is not something new, I just don't necessarily believe what he's saying as his reasoning. And screwed was hyperbole of course, but we're certainly in a very poor position game wise at the moment.

@ckd - I don't recall calling you scum at all. I'm simply trying to find out your reasoning. Did something I said make you think I'm calling you scum?
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Post Post #66  (isolation #11)  » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:40 pm

I think you have to go to the archive or something. IIrc, you have to access the archive folder (mafiascum.net/archive/) and then put the game link in the url to find anything.

I can see that you misspelled the name. I get the vibe that you really meant to hammer, but again, that's what I'm trying to figure out here. Also, not believing you doesn't necessarily equate to thinking you're scum. That's the most likely conclusion, but not the only one.
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Post Post #69  (isolation #12)  » Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:53 pm

Yer, it's kind of poo. I mean, you could iso all of your posts if you know what game you're looking for and that might help you find it faster, but if you're just searching in general it's not very user friendly. If you can just tell me the game, I'm sure I could find it (maybe).
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Post Post #78  (isolation #13)  » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:22 am

Please explain why you didn't wait for the mod to reply before the vote. Why did you assume it would be fine when 95% of mods (yourself included) allow misspelled names when voting as long as intention is clear?
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Post Post #81  (isolation #14)  » Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:22 pm

Your reasoning and logic behind doing it are slightly ridiculous, you must admit.

That being said, I'm not certain you are scum. nopoint really bothers me right now actually. But first thing's first, let's get this mass claim going and improve our odds slightly. I'd prefer nopoint claiming first actually.
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Post Post #84  (isolation #15)  » Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:52 pm

Vi and nopoint, let's hear your votes on who should claim first.
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Post Post #86  (isolation #16)  » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:18 pm

sottyrulez is a hydra between Sotty7 and Zachrulez
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Post Post #100  (isolation #17)  » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:48 am

I'm VT. CKD is town.

I think the scum are sottyrulez and nopoint.
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Post Post #102  (isolation #18)  » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:55 am

lol, I hope you don't think I'm that arrogant.

My biggest thing about Sottyrulez and nopoint is their general level of hesitance. I know we haven't had much discussion this game, but they don't seem to have said much at all. nopoint in particular.
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Post Post #106  (isolation #19)  » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:35 pm

ckd wrote: the fact that nopoint thought there was a GF in the game, makes me think he is not the lynch today.

meh. I don't really find that all that persuasive, but I see where you're coming from.

no point wrote:I have been busy with life. Latching on to arguments like this to propel your mislynch aren't you?

You and everybody else. Not really an excuse to post no content whatsoever. Also, if I was scum trying to propel a mislynch, I would have just counter claimed ckd. It would have taken approximately -0 effort to get a mislynch on him had he been counter claimed.

no point wrote:My read on Vi is pretty town so that leaves VP and Sotty.

what is your "pretty town" read of Vi based on?
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Post Post #109  (isolation #20)  » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:24 pm

I've been trying. Vi has been trying. Granted it's not as much as a normal game, but why the excuse making?
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Post Post #112  (isolation #21)  » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:47 pm

sottyrulez wrote:Also in recent experience I've been in 2 mafia games where scum have done something that doesn't make sense to get town cred. Bussing both their scumbuddies on day 1 and 2 (and the kicker on day 2 was that the scum could have hammered a townie.) and more recently in a newbie game where the mafia goon hammered the mafia roleblocker before it was certain what setup was in play (and he also was in a position to hammer a townie.)

Were either of these scum in a position to win the game. If not, then I don't even see how this evidence is related.

sottyrulez wrote:Entertains the notion of simply lynching CKD.

On a scale of 1-10, how serious do you think I was being?

sottyrulez wrote:You were heavily implying that he was scum during post 56, talking about CKD's own rule set not fitting in with his play. Now it looks like you were trying to make CKD look as bad as possible without committing yourself either way.

I was actually playing the game trying to figure out if he was scum or not, yes. Where were you at?

sottyrulez wrote:See a lurker lynch also takes relatively little effort as well.

lol. so your argument is that because I was stating suspicions of people in the game, I was being scummy? Vi was a town read and I didn't really have a good read on your slot because you've been pretty innocuous this game. Thankfully, ckd being clear makes this much easier and I can see you scrambling now for an out.

sottyrulez wrote:Defending self with CKD's argument, and the defense is WIFOM. Plus as pointed out earlier, a lurker lynch also requires little effort.

It was a weak argument the first time, repeating it doesn't add weight to it.

Let me ask your hydra, what motivation do you think I would have had for not CCing ckd at that point? Who would you have believed more easily was the real doctor?

---preview edit----

sottyrulez wrote:How is it an excuse when it's exactly what happened? The game has to be open and we have to be around to actually post.

As for today, you're trying to vilify us for "not trying" during massclaim. I mean really? When you massclaim, you don't actually do anything until everyone has claimed.

As I acknowledged in my post, I'm well aware that the game hasn't been open much. That being said, what you did post on Day 1 was just random vote and answering a question from me. No effort to start the discussion. Now, perhaps you didn't look at the game at all that Sunday, but my point is that in the few posts you did have you weren't exactly spurring the game on. I can only go on what I see. I asked questions. Vi asked questions. Ckd is confirmed town. What other conclusion can I draw from the evidence I have?

(Also, is this Zach or Sotty posting...I am curious this time)
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Post Post #116  (isolation #22)  » Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:37 am

I'm not going to respond to your unnecessarily huge post point by point; however, I will give you succinct responses.

1) The things you are giving town points to Vi for are missing the point. I would fully expect Vi-scum to have the same logical thought process. Determining Vi's alignment is more about trying to get the general feeling of the cases she's pushing rather than looking at the words she's writing. Trust me, I've seen her play enough to know this.

2) You joining Sotty in calling me scum for attempting to figure out ckd's alignment after his hammer is not surprising. I like how you are both saying that I'm scummy for questioning him when he pulled a move that would have highly benefited scum AND I'm scummy for not arriving at the conclusion that he's scum quick enough. That makes no logical sense. I'm damned if I do or damned if I don't in both of your eyes. How convenient.

nopoint wrote:Continues to frame me and Sotty for tiny reasoning such as we don't post enough. Are you happy now?

This is rich. I'm framing you now? Poor you. How exactly are you two being framed? Was what I said untrue?

3) I have joked with people in this game because I know Vi, Sottyrulez and ckd reasonably well. What is scummy about that again? Additionally, it's just a game and because the situation is dire for town doesn't mean I have to go into serious mode. I've doing plenty of the work today, so don't worry your scummy little head. You'll get your lynch sooner or later.

4) Your logic as to why I would not claim doc is pretty heavy fail.
nopoint wrote:People will start noticing that everyone is okay with your lynch one way or another and start becoming suspicious of this easy lynch.

Wrong. If someone WAS scum with ckd, they would almost certainly bus him in that situation.
nopoint wrote:If VP claims Doc, that will be what everyone suspects VP to do if he was scum. Whereas there is NO INCENTIVE for you to claim doc if you were scum ( that would be pulling yourself further into a quagmire). Thus, it's really WIFOM-ic whether we would lynch you over VP if he claimed Doc.
Double wrong. Why would everyone expect that I'm scum in that situation? You're starting at a conclusion and working backward. Additionally, what do you mean there's no incentive for ckd to claim doc in that situation? Claiming power as hypo-scum that quick hammered on Day 1 is about the only way you're going to have a shot at staving off a lynch at that point. That's pretty huge incentive. VP-scum also would have huge incentive to counterclaim, which both you and Sotty seem to want to deny.



Vi, yooooohoooooooo. You're the missing piece of the puzzle here.
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Post Post #119  (isolation #23)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:37 am

I think I've made my arguments, but I'll repeat: Sottyrulez, nopoint, Vi.

That's my order as of right now. Having my little tiffs with Sottyrulez and nopoint was helpful in solidifying this. How hesitant are you about nopoint's "Godfather" remark, ckd? You have me a bit worried at the moment, so I may be willing to put him to the back burner for now. That leaves Sottyrulez as the obvious lynch today, imo.

I think the main argument for Sottyrulez's lynch is that 1) they have been less proactive than either of them typically are as town 2) the arguments they are reaching for to paint me in a negative light are quite illogical. While I'm certainly not clear of anything, the fact that the first conclusion they come to is "VP-scum who's showing off" simply doesn't jive with a town mentality in my experience.
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Post Post #122  (isolation #24)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:10 am

I think I need to you be more specific in your question, Vi. You want to know my thought process while questioning him? Or why I decided he was probably town at the end of the discussion? Or something else I'm not seeing?
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Post Post #127  (isolation #25)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:01 pm

Alright this is going to be a mega post since I'm the center of the universe super nova black hole sun etc. etc.

Vi's mind-read questions wrote:You want to know my thought process while questioning him? Or why I decided he was probably town at the end of the discussion? Or something else I'm not seeing?

1) My thought process basically started off on the day like 'well, the scumminess of ckd's hammer is obvious, but is it TOO obvious to actually be coming from scum.' Post 51 I make my joke about a reroll because I'm frustrated with what he did if he's town. I then ask him to back up what he said about doing that move before, because sometimes scum like to say 'oh yeah, I've done that before...METADON'TLYNCHME' without actually having a good meta to back it up. He then tries to squirm out of giving links because it's "wifom," which is a BS excuse in my book and I state so in post 56. I then decided to do some work on my own to check out what ckd's thoughts are on fake voting by looking at his modded games. I don't see a rule explicitly stating names need to be correct for votes, but ultimately I wasn't really feeling this as conclusive evidence damning him. I decided to push it anyhow to see what his response would be.

Reading his post 57, I did sort of believe his "I sent the mod a PM telling him not to count it, but then he did it anyhow". Additionally, he did appear to be genuinely looking for his games even though he was failing at finding them. There was even an MD thread he created, which I saw later. This shows genuine town effort and not coasting scum. Ckd then posts the game he was thinking about, but it's not really the same scenario. This again makes me question whether he is scum or town trying this. Post 78 is me pushing him again to see which way he bends. I was also under the impression before that he had asked the mod before voting. In post 80 he reveals that he voted first, which is more believable than what I thought he did (ie ask, grow impatient waiting and vote anyway). Ckd was consistent while I was questioning him and stood by what he claimed his reasoning to be even though I felt more than one hole in his logic had been pointed out. This again is a town mentality, as I'd expect scum in that situation to change their story to sound more plausible.

Additionally, during my exchange with ckd we had nopoint chime in (post 74) with no actual line of questioning or trying to figure out anything. He just said that he didn't believe ckd. This is, of course, the world famous godfather post, but it stank and continues to stink to me for the sheer sideline wagon pushing mentality of it. So, with my questioning of ckd finished at that moment before massclaim, I felt confident enough to look elsewhere.

2) I guess this is answered by number one. Combination of him genuinely trying to explain himself and sticking with a ridiculous story when I would expect scum to backtrack.

3) I don't know what else I'm not seeing. you'll have to tell me.




nopoint wrote:Can you provide your meta on Vi and Sotty while you're at it because I've never played with her or in fact any of the people still remaining.

No. Giving out my meta reads for no reason kind of defeats the purpose of me having meta reads on people. I think what I gave is sufficient. If you want a town or scum meta read of Vi, she has a very extensively annotated wiki.

No, I don't expect you to come to a conclusion. Even I'm not in any type of real conclusion at that time and now. However, I do expect you to take a stance. You couldn't have figured out CKD's probable alignment if you don't take a stance and pressure your target. To me, it sounded more like you were equivocating yourself out of commitment before the doctor has claimed.

In case you forgot, you did take a stance. You said you didn't believe him at all. Following your own logic, why didn't you ever pressure ckd if you didn't believe him? Also, please explain how I was equivocating myself out of commitment by asking questions in earnest and essentially leading the questioning of ckd's motives for his hammer?

What you said was not untrue. However, it is greatly inconsistent. After CKD's hammer, you have made a lot of points against him but are still "trying to figure out his alignment". On the other hand, you called me and Shotty scum with such a small reason as we are inactive ( Note both situations are in LYLO ).

Still don't get how I'm "framing" you two. Or what you mean by inconsistent. Inconsistent compared to what?

3> I didn't say it was scummy. What do you imply by I will get my lynch sooner or later?

I assumed you were since you were calling many silly things scummy in that post. I'm implying you're scum and you'll be lynched as such.

4> Again, discussing this is WIFOM-ic. It can easily be twisted around either way so I'd gladly see it as a null-tell.

No, you're using WIFOM as an excuse. Large amounts of this game are WIFOM, it doesn't mean they should be ignored. I provided logical reasoning why I would not do it. What you have failed to provide is logical reasoning as to why I would do it. I would actually like answers to my questions instead of you copping out of it as WIFOM.


Sottyrulez wrote:Scum won both games.

That's not what I asked. I asked if the scum were imminently in a position to win the game when it occured. First, I don't know why you were being vague about Gonzo....though I guess I can say because it firmly does not apply to this situation. Sotty did not intend to bus both days to get town cred and you very well know that. It was a mistake. I find it dubious that you are pushing this as evidence supporting your case. I haven't read the newbie game, but I have a sneaking suspicion that was an equally dumb move by a newbie who didn't understand the situation rather than being strategic about town cred.

Excellent deflection. (Yes I know what I did there.)

I was being serious. I know you're busy and what not, but in fairness, so am I. I mean, that excuse only gets so much mileage in my book.

An out how? If we are so “innocuous” like you say, what would we need an out for?

An out for looking so scummy.

We refuse to believe you are cleared just because it would have been easier for scum to have counterclaimed CKD. Especially with this player list. The fact you seemed to leave yourself open for CKD being town when everyone else thought he was scum twigs our scumdar too. You seemed to know he was town and after he claimed doc you rolled with it.

Nobody said I was cleared. I just said it was unlikely that I as scum would have motivation for doing that given ckd's play. The player list is irrelevant. Additionally:
VP wrote:Who would you have believed more easily was the real doctor?


Also, why does it matter now who is posting? Earlier you said it didn't matter but now it does? Do you find one of us easier to discredit than the other?

I have theories. Theories that have nothing to do with discrediting. Feel free to answer.

Then you keep trying to qualify the point by saying “I acknowledged day wasn't that long BUT...” It's a BS point. We know it, you know it, yet you keep banging that drum. Why?

It's not a BS point. I can only go on what you post in thread. I find that lacking. I'm stating so. How is that BS?
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Post Post #129  (isolation #26)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:28 pm

Vi wrote:VP Baltar: What were you trying to accomplish with your D1 questioning of Equinox? Did you know her before this game began?
No, I haven't played with her before...which was exactly what I was trying to accomplish. I didn't really need to get a feel for you or Sottyrulez or CKD because I have played with you guys plenty. Equinox was where I decided to start with the unfamiliars....it's a shame I didn't get very far.

Now a question for you (and nopoint and Sottyrulez): Why should I believe you're town at this point?
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Post Post #130  (isolation #27)  » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:30 pm

EBWOP:

Vi wrote:Oh thanks :igmeou:

:D Anything I can do to help.
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Post Post #134  (isolation #28)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:08 am

Ok, Vi, who would you rather lynch today npau or sottyrulez?
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Post Post #138  (isolation #29)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:23 pm

sottyrulez wrote:Just to hear these theories I'm gonna answer.

The initial spam posts of our case on you were made by Zach. The subsequent follow up that you just replied to was by me (Sotty). I thought it was pretty obvious honestly, but then I don't think you have played a ton of games with Zach.

I sort of felt that way, but I wanted to clarify. My theory is that you guys as scum would have Sotty posting predominantly because Zach really does not like to be scum. Additionally, Zach is probably more susceptible to pressure as scum, as he gets frustrated more easily. The fact that you both posted does not support this theory and may or may not add weight to my next point.

This is largely directed at ckd, but anyone else may consider as they see fit. I'm currently thinking we should lynch nopoint today. I asked Vi who she would prefer to lynch for a very specific reasoning, that being to lynch the opposite person she chose. Now if my town read on Vi is correct, it doesn't really matter who we lynch out of sotty and nopoint first. Big Whoop. However, if my read of Vi is wrong, that means that she is partners with one of them. Therefore, I asked her nonchalantly what her lynch preference was knowing that Vi-scum in that situation, this close to the votes happening, would not want to direct the town toward her partner. She has chosen sottyrulez as her preferred lynch. Soooo, if my logic is correct and she would be trying to win the thing straight away, we ought to be lynching nopoint right about now. I'm sure Vi-scum would be tricksy enough to cut me off at the pass with this line of questioning if she had seen it coming, but I also don't think I was very direct when asking...idk. I'd like your thoughts.

I was also thinking about nopoint's godfather comment some more (going running early in the morning does wonders for your thought processes btw), and do you think it's possible he typed godfather when he meant roleblocker? I mean, he does have enough experience to know the difference, so that makes me a bit doubtful, but maybe he wasn't thinking straight. Just a thought.
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Post Post #140  (isolation #30)  » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:46 pm

well, It's certainly not a 100% town read. Why would Vi-scum in that situation suggest a lynch on her buddy though?
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Post Post #143  (isolation #31)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:36 am

curiouskarmadog wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:well, It's certainly not a 100% town read. Why would Vi-scum in that situation suggest a lynch on her buddy though?


really? why not? a suggestion is not a vote.

I just feel that we're closing in on a vote and that vibe was there when I asked. It's hard for me to see why Vi would push anything in the direction of a buddy at that point when she could nudge toward a townie and win the game outright.
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Post Post #145  (isolation #32)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:56 am

Not sure why you'd think sotty is likely to be my partner if I was scum, I've pretty much led the way in both the npau and sotty directions. That being said, you certainly have to see how the above logic makes sense from my perspective. And from your perspective it shouldn't really matter since you believe me to be town anyhow. :?
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Post Post #147  (isolation #33)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:21 am

On the other hand, maybe we should just lynch Sotty. For some reason I completely missed that they IGNORED MY ENTIRE POST TO THEM W/ QUESTIONS



nopoint wrote:Can you get more manipulative than this?

You should see me play as scum.

1> It is not bandwagon if it has no votes

Don't see how this is relevant, but by wagon I was clearly meaning the momentum of a ckd=scum mentality.

2> Sideline pushing?? I was clear in my stance and my intention to pressure. You were the one who was "sideline pushing" and your equivocation of "what went through your mind" are so equivocative I find it fabricated ( Note: The brain thinks simple).

You obviously don't understand the concept of sideline pushing. You were putting your support there for no discernible reason. That is sideline pushing. You were piggybacking off of the actual scumhunting I was doing and now you're trying to take credit for it. A town person should not be certain of anything in this game without attempting to find motivations first. I think it's pretty clear you were not interested in that as much as you were interested in a ckd lynch ftw.

Ho ho, the reason why I did not talk much about my godfather post is so scum-metality player would try to make it look bad. I was thinking straight and really thought CKD was the godfather. Supposed there is really a godfather and a role blocker. The godfather would be the one committing to such gambit because the scummy hammer will attract investigation from the cop ( which shows town and thus greatly benefits the scum team ).

This completely misses the point. You were thinking straight by proclaiming there was a role in the game that is not present? Ok.

1> Thanks for proving myself to be consistent which my belief that townie takes stance.
2> No, most of what you've said were wishy washy.

1)Pro-tip: scum take stances too. It says nothing about alignment.
2) I disagree. (this is useful)

1> A one-liner post containing a serious question doesn't spell out nonchalant.

:?
2> Vi, an experienced player as we all know, would have noticed such an obvious ploy. That makes me doubt your intention of making such ploy.

:? :?

there is absolutely no reason to believe Vi would prefer Sotty-lynch if he was scum with me. You completely failed to address the likelihood of scum bussing for town-cred. Your logic is failed logic, because an experienced player would have a tendency towards convoluted reasoning rather than straight forward reasoning.

What the fuck does a player need townie-cred for when they can win the game? Additionally, in case you missed it, I'm an experienced player and I can tell you that convoluted reasoning is not a favored play method. Winning is the ultimate goal. Every day that the scum have to survive a lynch is not beneficial to their win condition. Particularly in this game where we have such little information to go on and scum have such an outright chance to win today. In absolutely no way does it make sense for a scum player to want to prolong this game by bussing their partner today.

I really find it astounding that people are finding your illogical argument making to be coming from town, but whatever.

WIFOM is based on the question would you do it or would you not. This question is subjective as you can simply do it to make others think you wouldn't or don't do it to make others think you would. The case of you not claiming doc clearly applies. Thus, it should be a null-tell.

Very few scum decisions in my experience come down to trying to out WIFOM the town. Perhaps in NKs at times, but generally during the day it comes down to "what is going to best further my win-con at this point in time." That's not WIFOM, that's just smart play.

VP, between Vi and Sotty, who do you think is scummier ( non-subjective ) to what others' reasoning or lynch preference? Or do you even have an opinion at all?
I don't understand your question. Rephrase. If you're generally asking who I think is scummier, it's Sotty by far.


preview edit:

I suppose I have gone after nopoint slightly more, but that's also partially because I find that I have to string Sottyrulez out more on their own. Nopoint is reacting and posting big walls (almost strictly about me mind you), so that is no effort. Sotty is probably a tougher nut to crack, so it involves more observation. Needless to say, I don't care for how either of them have approached today. I get a survivalist vibe from both, which I expect from scum.
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Post Post #149  (isolation #34)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:42 am

I'm not sure I'm understanding your questions correctly, but the only real reason Vi ended on that lynch yesterday was because you hammered so quickly...and I was leaning your way too until you claimed. I find both of those things to be reasonable from a town perspective. It's time to look at the forest and not the trees in this case.
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Post Post #152  (isolation #35)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:18 am

Alright, so my conclusion is that ckd is not willing to vote npau at this point. I don't think I'm willing to vote Vi at this point. The answer seems rather obvious then who needs to die. I think I'm ready to vote if you are ckd.
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Post Post #159  (isolation #36)  » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:47 pm

Sottyrulez wrote:Why is CKD's positions on who he's not willing to vote for important to you? His alignment doesn't make him any more likely to be right than anyone else.

Well, I know he may not be more right (I disagree with him about nopoint), but the difference between him and anyone else in the game is that I can at least trust what he's saying as his honest opinion. That counts for a lot.

You seem more interested in going after who appears more likely to be lynched than actually pushing a case for who you think is truly scum.

What? I've been saying pretty clearly all day who I think is scum and who my preferred lynches are.

Perhaps you can tell me why you would expect a survivalist vibe from scum when a town lynch today will result in a scum win and a scum lynch won't?

Your point there is just wrong.

I don't know what the ol' book of scumtells is or what scumtell you're referring to exactly, but when I said survivalist vibe I mean that you're trying to skate through the day without being lynched (which by definition would mean that a town gets lynched and you'd win). You're not doing anything to find scum. You're playing defense and hoping to make it out alive. Don't see what was unclear about that.

You realize you barely asked us any questions in that post? I see three questions. We answered one, we had already answered the question about the doc, The other question was more you pushing your BS argument asking how it was crap when we had already detailed WHY it was in our last post.

But hey, it's funny how you only bring this up now to make us look “worse” as you swing with CKD's wind. Pretty weak.

You didn't answer the doc question at all. You dodged it before, therefore I asked you again. Additionally you didn't address anything I said about your scum game examples being irrelevant to this situation....which I suspect is because you don't want to argue that point. You essentially glanced over the entire post to talk about my posting theory for you two.
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Post Post #163  (isolation #37)  » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:41 am

I think I'm done responding to the WIFOM machine.

Vote: Sottyrulez

Hell be damned if I'm wrong (but I doubt I am).
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Post Post #165  (isolation #38)  » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:12 am

I've yet to see those responses from you...so the irony is lost on me.
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Post Post #167  (isolation #39)  » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:45 pm

yeah, I've been stalking this thread all day to see if Vi and nopoint try to quick hammer. Plan to continue most of the night too. Got my tab open with an unvote in case they try it.
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Post Post #172  (isolation #40)  » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:57 am

Well, that seals it. Sotty is scum 100% for sure. ckd and Vi, take care of bidness plz.

@nopoint - The Bell Tolls for Thee next.
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Post Post #173  (isolation #41)  » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:03 am

Also, it should be clear by now that I wasn't really stalking the thread last night. Just a threat :D Though today is Friday, so you never know if I really will be today.

Anyhow, I think it somewhat weird that neither Vi or no point voted last night. Why's that guys?
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Post Post #175  (isolation #42)  » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:20 am

sigh.

I am not 100% certain Vi is not scum. What I am certain of is that Sottyrulez IS scum. If Sotty and I were both town, Vi and no point could have come in here and lynched either one of us last night without a problem ftw. Concurrent with this conclusion, I KNOW I AM NOT SCUM. Ergo, Sotty has to be scum or we would have lost the game already. Tomorrow I am going to have to determine which of Vi and nopoint are scum, but that's an issue I'll deal with tomorrow. Today we lynch guaranteed scum.
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Post Post #177  (isolation #43)  » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:49 am

ckd wrote:how exactly would vi have lynched either of you...lets say vi is scum with sotty...he would vote you then what?...wait and hope for nopoint to do the same? no I imagine Viscum with sottyscum would have waited till I or nopoint would have voted, to keep his cards close to his chest.

You're missing my point. Ignore Vi for a moment. The fact that neither Sottyrulez or I were lynched last night even though you, Vi and nopoint posted means that one of Sottyrulez or I HAS to be scum. If the hydra and I were both town, then the last two scum (Vi and nopoint in this scenario) could have simply both placed a vote on either Sottyrulez or I and won the game. The fact that this did not happen shows without a doubt that Vi and nopoint are not working in collaboration (ie scum). Therefore, from my perspective (and yours if you think I'm town), Sottyrulez is guaranteed scum. This is the person we have to lynch today because we will absolutely hit scum.

Tomorrow will undoubtedly be lylo with me, nopoint and Vi. That is when I will have to be worried about Vi and wool and eyes, etc. Right now, however, the choice has been made very simple.

ckd wrote:who is sotty's partner VP? both vi and nopoint checked, so given your math, nopoint isnt likely scum either.

No, the fact that they posted doesn't make either of them anymore town. All it does is make Sottyrulez more likely scum. See above.

I had considered your point about them waiting to be on together, but even that is unnecessary. Vi could have easily voted Sottyrulez last night when she came on. Everyone has basically been expecting this and it would not have appeared out of the ordinary for her to do so. Nopoint mostly seems to be on late at night when no one else is really around, so once that vote was there, he could have came in leisurely and hammered without anything to stop him (this was why I made my thread stalking threat). This didn't happen though and it mostly likely was not because of my threat so much as it is they are not scum together.

@Vi - why did you ask me what you should do?
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Post Post #180  (isolation #44)  » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:26 am

Vi attempting to quick hammer me would make her obvious scum. I give Vi enough credit to not be dumb. Bonus question: what is your point? I would pick apart your argument, but it kind of seems like wasted breath at this point. However, just for the lulz:

What is the difference between wifom scum and actual scum?
What does nopoint's proposed voting have to do with anything?
If Vi is leaving her options open, why did she say I was town? Or does "leaving your options open" really mean "willing to vote for Sottyrulez"?
How does anything you even said above result in the conclusion the team is Vi and VP?

Ckd, you're going to have to vote Sotty to make this happen because her hypo-buddy nopoint has already ruled out bussing at this point. Mistake on his part, but we need all of the town to ban together for this one.
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Post Post #185  (isolation #45)  » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:30 pm

Vi wrote:f I had voted sottyrulez like I wanted to, then DOHOHO I'm trying to work the quicklynch. If not, I'm scummy for sitting on my hands (as evidenced by the first two quotes). So I asked what you wanted me to do, since neither voting nor not voting were acceptable outcomes.

Oh no, that's not really how I intended it to sound. I realize that neither of you have that much internets, so I was just saying if I caught you guys coordinating ("I'm ready to vote as soon as I hear from npau" etc. etc.), I would have unvoted. As it is, Sottyrulez is ready to burn. I knew I should have stuck with satisfying wagon Day 1.
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Post Post #186  (isolation #46)  » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:38 pm

@ckd - please make your case for Vi-scum and npau-town before you hammer today. I'm going to want your thoughts to review for tomorrow, so be as thorough as possible.
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Post Post #190  (isolation #47)  » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:35 pm

ckd, if you lose this game, I am going to be pissed. Take your vote off of Vi for now before she gets quick hammered by Sottyrulez and npau. Read what I have stated about Sottyrulez. Regardless of what you think about Vi, Sotty is guaranteed scum. GUARANTEED. That doesn't happen often in the game of mafia. They are the only lynch today that makes any kind of sense.

If you think I'm missing something, take your vote off and explain what I'm missing. As I see it now, my logic is air tight and you're going to cost us this game.
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Post Post #194  (isolation #48)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:26 am

ckd wrote:who are the players that represent sotty again?

Sotty7 and Zachrulez

Seriously though, ckd, I'm fine with you having issues with Vi and I am listening to your arguments. But Sotty has to be scum. Don't let your gut stop you from lynching caught scum. Sometimes you have to play with your head in this game too.

nopoint wrote:Don't be hypocritical VP. If you had any pangs to as Sotty might be town you wouldn't have voted him in the first place. If you are town which you clearly are not, the fact that you went ahead to vote Sotty would speak for itself already. You are currently just filling your posts with AtE.

Why are you even putting those two posts next to one another? They are not related at all. I'm not having doubts about sotty at all. Learn to read what I am writing. She is scum and I really do not believe you are this stupid.

nopoint wrote:I haven't ruled out Sotty scum or else I'd just have placed my vote on either you or Vi today. However, VP's hysterical defense for Vi confirms my VP/Vi scum resolution.
Vote:VP Baltar
CKD, vote him and win the game for us. VP can only be scum with Vi.

LOL

nopoint wrote:VP's point is entirely based on the fact that he is town, which should be invalid for you and terribly invalid for me. It's like saying something but saying nothing at all.

You've yet to actually present any valid evidence as to why I'm scum. After I shot down all of your arguments, you simply ignored those points. You're fucking right my argument is based on the fact I'm town because I AM TOWN. I couldn't be anymore town in this game. I'm doing most of the work and leading 95% of the discussion. I didn't CC ckd when I could have easily. How much more evidence short of a freaking cop investigation do you think is necessary? There is no way you are legitimately this dense.
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Post Post #195  (isolation #49)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:28 am

great. gg scum.
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Post Post #196  (isolation #50)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:30 am

Who was your partner Vi because I can't even tell through the terrible tunnel vision that was on me from both Sotty and nopoint?
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Post Post #198  (isolation #51)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:40 am

: /

It's sad when the scum makes more logical sense than the town. I really fail to see why I was tunneled on so hard and none of the evidence in thread pointed to me being scum. If nopoint is your buddy though and it took him that long to vote for someone, well that is just bad then.
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Post Post #201  (isolation #52)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:38 am

or you could have voted for guaranteed scum Sotty.
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Post Post #210  (isolation #53)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:48 am

I'm not going to bitch. We all make mistakes. I think the important lesson from this game is to not get so caught up in arguing with someone that you miss the bigger picture of the game.

I mean, in some sense, your tunnelling was giving me weird town vibes just for how persistent you were, but I was 99% certain Sotty was scum and you buddying them wasn't doing you any favors. Also, the way to catch Sotty or Zach is to simply look at their contribution to the game. They were on the ropes from the minute I accused them and then just pretty much played defensively the entire time. Both of them are proactive as town players. It was a strong indicator of their alignment even before the line in the sand was drawn (which completely sealed it).
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Post Post #218  (isolation #54)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:53 am

curiouskarmadog wrote:well, lets say we hit Sottyscum today, most likely would have still lost...it didnt sould like VP thought Vi was scum.

I was certainly leaning toward nopoint as a buddy, but there is no way it was a guaranteed lynch. Every day is a chance to reevaluate your stances, assumptions and suspicions. Especially in lylo, all bets are off.
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Post Post #223  (isolation #55)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:37 am

Vi wrote:I really would rather not see VP Baltar tomorrow though - he's lost to both of us before and will take great care to make sure it doesn't happen again.

:( I just can't win no matter how hard I try.
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Post Post #229  (isolation #56)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:57 am

Vi wrote:I didn't particularly LIKE being manipulated in that quickhammer "trap"

:( What was wrong with that? You didn't feel it was a fair play to make?

Vi wrote:he kept saying things that made me cringe a little

que?

Vi wrote:VP Baltar ask ckd for his Vi-case in engrossing detail was difficult because I'm fairly sure VPB's motivation for asking for it stemmed partly from his (however justified) lack of confidence in being able to read me based on previous games.

Yes, exactly. As much as I was against lynching you today, tomorrow would have been a completely different story because you're adept enough at appearing town. As I said earlier, reading you is sort of like reading tea leaves. You can't really look at the words you're saying because they'll appear town. It's more about feel in relation to whoever else is alive. Then again, maybe you've just played with me too much and know how to sound reasonable in particular to me. :P

Also, I do agree with you that this setup favors town, so kudos to you guys on that.

Sotty wrote:We also tried to manipulate Zach's scum meta to make us look townie. That is why I pushed him to make the case on VP in the manner he did. That almost worked as well.

Ha! I knew it! I was really hoping to catch just you posting the whole time because that's a dead sign of Zach scum.
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Post Post #237  (isolation #57)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:52 am

Vi wrote:It was KIND of a fair play to make considering the difference in me and npau's access times, but expecting me to vote when you said it would be a scummy sign wasn't fair.

It was more of a deterrent to keep either of you from voting while I was asleep. Apparently it worked!

Vi wrote:At times it felt like you were saying things that you couldn't get away with if you weren't obvTown. Watch this exchange again for an example.
YOU: So sotty and npau are both scum because you're Town. Who do you want to lynch first?
ME: It doesn't matter. sotty, I guess.
YOU: So we're lynching npau! If you're scum, you're more likely to be scum with the person you didn't name.
ME: Um. What? When did I become scum? And considering I picked sotty because they're more likely to be scum IF you are, it sounds like you just charmed your way into not lynching your partner

Yeah, once I think I'm town enough, I'll abuse the hell out of it. I think it scares the scum a lot more than playing the uncertainty game. Even though that tactic in particular was wrong (should have factored in YOUR love of bussing too :P) I think the logic behind it was sound for a player that was aiming to win D2.

Additionally:
You need to visit my reality more often. I'm wrong a lot less.
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Post Post #242  (isolation #58)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:20 am

For what it's worth, coming out and admitting the mistake at the start of the day was really the best move that could be made. What else is there really to say other than "I fucked up, sorry." Once I saw you doing all your searching, I honestly was starting to believe that you thought there had been a precedence for it. Had you been counterclaimed by Sotty, I probably would have believed you. Had Vi counterclaimed, I'm not so sure. At least you sounded honest though.
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Post Post #250  (isolation #59)  » Sat Oct 02, 2010 2:42 pm

@Equinox - breadcrumbing like that always scares me. Occasionally scum miss it (as here), but if someone takes the time to go through the posts, it's relatively easy to find crumbs like that. I would rather leave several vague breadcrumbs than one big breadcrumb like that. Then again, I'm paranoid like that.
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Post Post #274  (isolation #60)  » Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:10 pm

Vi wrote:
Now we have to do it, if only to keep SaintKerrigan playing mafia :D
I just had an evil thought for how to keep him playing here INDEFINITELY. :twisted:

Ah, so this is my purgatory. Perpetually losing to Vi and Sottyrulez. Sigh.
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Post Post #280  (isolation #61)  » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:10 pm

@Vi - you'll probably feel better if you just tell me your alignment at the start of the next game.

Also, I call hammer on SK. Page 2 lulz!
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Post Post #293  (isolation #62)  » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:06 am

I'll play if everyone else is in. I'm going to be gone for the next few days, but feel free to start the game without me and I'll catch up.
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