Bad Idea Mafia - Game Over

[Yosarian2]

All right...that was a really bad day 1. We got absoultly no information at all. Fritzler, what if Vismaior had been a cop? Or what if a cop had gotten an innocent investigation on him? You should have AT LEAST given him a chance to claim before you shot him.

My suggestions, for everyone:

1. Don't shoot anyone until everyone, or almost everyone, posts at least once. AFter all, what if a cop got a guilty result on someone, and wants to share it?

2. Don't shoot anyone unless they have at least 5 or 6 people FOSing them. This should give them a chance to defend themselves, should give people a chance to defend them or attack them, and it should give us a chance to make kind of a psudo-voting record to help us figure out who scum is. It should also make it harder for the godfather to blow people away with impunity.

[Yosarian2]

What's this? The day is 2 hours old and no-one has been shot yet?

You should have AT LEAST given him a chance to claim before you shot him.

Why? there's only 1 claim that makes any strategic sense for anyone - townie.

Um, no, there ARE 3 cops, remember? Wouldn't it be better for a cop to claim cop and share his results rather then get randomally shot by a townie? And if we don't have some kind of FOS rules, how would a person know if they were in danger of being killed or not?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favour of Fritzler's trigger happy behaviour, but I don't think we ought to constrain people by FOS rules either.

Why not?

Like I said, the idea behind the FOS rules is to make people say who they're suspicious of, and to see who they defend. The way day 1 went, we got no information about ANYONE except for Fritzer. Whereas, if several people has disccused if VisMaior was a good day 1 kill or not, we would have gotten some info on all of them, just like we do in a "normal" mafia game.

Besides, I think we can safely say that Fritzler is a townie. Even he isn't mad enough to pull something like this when godfather.

(shrug) You're probably right, although we're getting into wine in front of me terratory here. You notice I didn't FOS fritzler, though. However, if we leave it so that that kind of "show up and shoot someone at random without asking for anyone's opinion" behavior is allowed, it will make it really easy for the godfather to kill at will, possibly multiple times in the game, without getting much attention; wheras that won't happen like that if we go by the FOS rules I suggested.

[Yosarian2]

Vote: Yosarian2

funsucker

You already cost us an entire day of discussion and information. I was going to suggest this stratagy day 1, but we didn't GET a day 1, at all, because of you. Instead, the scum got two night kills with a random being killed in between. If the town keeps doing stuff like that, we're not going to win, because we're not going to have any way to figure out who the scum are.

[Yosarian2]

If you weren't prepared for at least semi-random daykills, you shouldn't have signed up for this game, Yosarian2. I don't mind what Fritzler did, of course we shouldn't do it every day, but eh, the day one kill would have probably gotten a townie anyway.

(shrug) I think this is going to be a really interesting game, for a lot of reasons. I also intend to play to win, which was why I suggested that FOS stratagy.

You're right, that the town usually dosn't hit scum day 1. However, the town often gets enough info on day 1 so that they've got a better chance day 2. We got nothing day 1.

We don't have to go with my plan, if no one else wants to, but random kills without any discussion first are very, very bad for us; they're actually a lot worse then random vig kills would be in a normal game, because here they not only cost us a good guy, they also cost us an entire day which lowers our chances of finding scum in the long run by a lot. With the set-up the way it is, it is possible for a single townie who kills randomally and plays badly enough to completly destroy any chance of the town winning by killing several townies and at the same time making it impossible for us to find scum on those days. This isn't like the duels in BJ's wild west mafia, where the town had duels as well as the normal lynches; the kills are our only possible way to kill scum, and we only get one a day, we've got to use them wisely.

Now This is not me's suggestion seems good to me, although it could backfire in a big way. It does have the added benefit of limiting the GF's power as he'd kill only once, so his idea is something we should certainly take into account.

We should discuss and stuff and then when there's a feeling of general consensus we'll ask someone to make the kill.

I do agree with this. One of the useful facts we have is that goons can't kill, so we might as well use that to try test people when we have someone who looks suspicious.

[Yosarian2]

Really...with no voting, this game is pretty much a game of chance, and a FOS of vote system will pretty much do nothing, as not everybody will go for it.

Why do you assume that? If a stratagy will help the town, then why wouldn't all pro-town people go along with it?

I mean, there might be some extreme situation where you would be so sure person X was scum you'd be willing to ignore the system and kill someone anyway, but if you do that on your own without getting approval from the town first, you had BETTER be right.

[Yosarian2]

(Comes into head, shakes head)

If we are going to have this little discussion every day, I have no idea how we're ever going to figure out who the godfather is, except possibly through blind luck. In fact, we didn't even wait long enough to see if a cop was going to finger a goon today or not.

[Yosarian2]

(nods)
We really need to have discussion. We have pleanty of ways to find goons, between the cops and the fact that they can't kill, but we have no idea of how to find the godfather except through posting. And the Godfather is the real danger to us, I think. If he's smart, he might have already gotten himself confirmed as "not a goon" by either killing or getting himself investigated; if he hasn't by now, he probably will soon, especally if we continue the "make person A kill person B to "confirm" both of them as not goons" stratagy. For that reason, if anyone does another pointless speedkill of a townie today, I'm going to be VERY suspicious of you being the godfather and trying to "confirm" yourself as not a goon.

Heck, at this point, if the only way to restore some sanity to the town's stratagy here is to kill off some of the uber-trigger happy people, I'm willing to do it, especally as I suspect one of the people who's already killed might be the godfather.

[Yosarian2]

...and WIFOM, Yosarian. WIFOM.

Not WIFOM at all. It's simply that we've been using the statagy of "let's make one of the "unconfirmed" kill another", and so if your primary goal is to not be killed (which would be the Godfather's primary goal right now) then the logical thing to do would be to quickly get yourself "confirmed" as a non-goon, probably by killing someone.

It's not a matter of WIFOM; it's a matter of figuring out what the logical move of the other side would be.

[Yosarian2]

But then, as the town, it is better to kill those who have already killed, since according to your logic they've already killed. So if they haven't killed yet, they aren't likely until they can get a goon.

(shrug) It's possible my post may have changed the path of the game so that it's no longer the best stratagy for the Godfather to roam the streets blowing away random townies. If so, then, good.

Still, at this point, we really need to be thinking about how to find the godfather. That has to be our main goal. He's the threat. We could be at 10 people with only 3 scum, and he could kill during the day, nightkill, kill 24 hours into the day, nightkill, and win, and the only chance the town would have would be that brief 24 hour period for a townie to figure it out and kill him, and only if a townie who has never killed happens to log on in that brief window of time and figure it out correctly. Killing a goon only helps the town a little; it buys the town another day before we hit "kill right or lose", but that's about it. On the other hand, if we kill the godfather, I think we're almost sure to win.

Right now, because of his eagerness to "confim" himself as not a goon yesterday with a quick kill of a townie, the person I'm most suspicious of for Godfather-ness is Ranger of the North.

fos:Ranger of the north

[Yosarian2]

I must say I don't completly understand the CES bandwagon. All I've seen so far was Fritzer talking about how CES "smelled" like scum. Care to be a little more specific, Fritzer?

[Yosarian2]

I'm more along the lines of just do whatever you want. You can forget the please don't kill me part. If you want to kill me go ahead. I'm going to play this game the way I want. I recognize that it will probably get me killed, but I'm going to enjoy it more. You want to look for the godfather? Day 1, Fritzler kills the first post. That, to me, is who is most likely the godfather. The reason I killed was because it was clear to me that my opinion wasn't going to be taken seriously by the (then) 2 most active players until I had. I felt that it was better for the more active players to make kills because then cops wouldn't waste investigations on them. I still think I'm right, and that I was right to make a kill when I did, if you disagree, feel free to shoot me.

Interesting. You think Fritzler is most likely to be Godfather? If so, why did you not mention your suspicion until just now?

[Yosarian2]

Interesting. You think Fritzler is most likely to be Godfather? If so, why did you not mention your suspicion until just now?

I had assumed that we were going to be going after the goons first, and I was planning to put in my suspicions whenever we started going after the godfather.

Is that why? Because it looks like your're just trying to divert attention away from yourself by suggesting Fritzler as Godfather, right after I accused you, with your claim that you were suspicious of him all along but didn't SAY until I accused you.

For the record, while I am suspicious of everyone at this point, I'm not especally suspicious of Fritzler; he's been overly bloodthirsty in every game I've played with him, and I'm was not surprised to see his 2 minute long day 1. He would have done that no matter what his alignment is, I think.

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, great game. Well played, ibaesha.

This was definatly a great idea, mod, from a game-play and mechanics point of view, and I would like to see this type of mafia game run again. Perhaps with some kind of daytime role-blocker ability too, next time?

[Yosarian2]

Speedy - you said you didn't want the game to end as quickest on the draw...

All iba had to do was show up and shoot.

Just a point to be made; no more, no less.

(shrug) The problem is, if there wasn't a "scum wins if they get 50% of the population" rule, then the goons would be almost completly irrelevent in this kind of game.