Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[hitogoroshi]

Welcome everyone. A few people I know (glad to be playing with Spy and VP), a lot of new faces for me.

I have a question for everyone: What is your Stars Aligned experience? That is, have you played in both 1 and 2, just one of them, or is this your first?

Personally, this is my first Stars Aligned game.

I would appreciate if someone who has played in at least one previous Stars Aligned game would weigh in on the merits of noise-claiming versus not. We know that people who didn't hear noise today won't die tonight, but it also gives the cultists information and I'm not entirely convinced it's in our favor to claim noise. If a player heard noise and WASN'T targeted by cultists, cultists know they were either warded or stalked (or warded someone else.) The benefit to town seems smaller than this, and so I'm leaning towards saying we shouldn't claim noise.

[hitogoroshi]

hitorogoshi, since you're the one arguing we shouldn't noise-claim, what possible benefit do you think the cult would glean from knowing who was warded on N0?

If you know that someone was warded, you know that someone thinks they're worth protecting even knowing they might be scum. Actually though, the biggest isn't knowing who was warded, it's that they get a good idea who was

stalked

.

Skill is subjective to a degree, but I think if we all divided the playerlist into "great players" and "not great players", we'd have considerable overlap. If a not-great player hears noise but was not targeted by Craft Fetish, it's less likely they were warded and more likely they were stalked.

For the record, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't noise claim. I'm just pointing out that there ARE negatives to noiseclaiming. There are positives as well, and they could well outweigh the bad stuff. That's why I'd like to hear from someone who's played Stars Aligned before. But with ReaperCharlie's first post being "I HEARD NOISE", I'm worried that people think there are no negatives.

I warded El Goosuki
MoI pushing policy lynch D1 when it should be RVS is suspicious, but he's just mad I got him lynched in ReaperCharlie's mini theme 1000.
I did not hear noise last night.

If you warded, you would have heard noise. Lynch all liars.

Vote: Furcolow

[hitogoroshi]

Your action will fail if someone targets you with Ward.

If someone had warded you, you still would have heard noise.

Preview-edit: Oh, but that was a ruleset error. Cheerfully withdrawn!

Unvote

[hitogoroshi]

The cult does gain some information from noise claiming, but so does the town (ie protection targets etc.) Last game we claimed from the start and I don't really feel it was a huge detriment to the town. Later in the game, I think the information helped to pick out potential murderers easier, which the town last game learned the hard way is critically important. I'm pro noise claiming personally because the more info the better I feel.

Fair enough. You're a good player and if you've played SA before, I'll defer to your judgment.

I heard noise last night.

[hitogoroshi]

Anyways caught Fate as cult because I didn't hear noise.

I see where you're coming from with this but I don't agree. I don't know what the history between you and Fate is but I certainly wouldn't say it's a 100% chance he'd murder you as an investigator. Just because you apparently felt compelled to stalk Fate based off of your mutual history doesn't mean Fate was similarly unable to put aside personal feelings for the good of the town. Also, if Fate is certainly out for your blood as an investigator, why wouldn't he Craft your Fetish as cult?

Also, I'll go ahead and say I didn't ward. I was actually kinda tempted to ward VP but with no way of knowing his alignment I didn't want to risk that 1/4th chance of throwing my action down the drain.

vote: fate
i only know my role, so i need to preserve my role

Could you expand on this? I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.

[hitogoroshi]

She would've if she was investigator. Fate has no allegiance to PTW. Fate would gladly lynch me or kill me (as town) if I was modconfirmed as town. Thats how awesome (sarcasm) she is. She probably did something else the cult wanted from her.

This is where you lose me. Why would Fate have no allegiance to PTW

as town

, but not as cult? Even if the cult refused to participate in the ritual on you, Fate could still just go Craft Fetish > Pass Fetish every two turns if she's as spiteful as you say.

<>

Fate: Capslock is like a vintage wine. It's awesome to have around on special occasions, but if you drink it 24/7 you're not cultured, you're just drunk.

I HEARD NOISE LAST NIGHT AND I DID NOT WARD.

1. WAHT DOES THIS MEAN?

You were targeted by at least one instance of Stalk, Craft Fetish, or Ward. On subsequent nights this list expands to include Resuscitate, Investigate, and Pass Fetish.

2. SOMEONE CLARIFY THE CULTKILL FOR ME, I THOUGHT THEY COULD RITUAL KILL SOMEONE N0?

No. They need a Fetish of the target to kill them, and they start with no Fetishes.

3. WHAT IS THE PURPOSES OF FETISHES? JUST TO MAKE TOWN INSANE?

As said above, Fetishes are also needed for the nk.

I just realized something.

Mod: Can Craft Fetish be used on the same investigator more than once a night?

<>

I don't know his role, and I know I'm good, hence I'm going to wagon someone to preserve myself and save my own neck. However, BenMage just claimed he stalked fate, so...

Furc, you're pretty much a confirmed townie if El Goosuki heard noise. Self-preservation wagons as town are dubious in the best of times, but for you especially it's just silly. Just take a breather and try to focus on finding scum. (I see from your preview you unvoted. Good on you.)

You also seem to be posting an awful lot. You don't even need to worry about looking town at this point. Maybe just try posting once a day with your thoughts and scumreads? In a giant game like this, if too many people spam the thread people will ragequit just looking at the page number.

[hitogoroshi]

Because, I don't believe in your foolproof meta.

Awesome. Second cult caught.

Well then you may as well call me third cult, because I too think that "Fate-town would be as petty as I am currently being" isn't exactly a foolproof case.

Furc: I did in fact miss that El had heard noise. Sup confirmed townie.

Fate: It's too late for ward, someone with a resuscitation kit can counter his kill, though.

Benmage: You're not confirmed town. You could be scum who used Craft Fetish on Fate.

Mod: Sorry for asking another question, but it says "Your action will fail if someone targets you with Ward" in the side-effects of Ward. As written, this is a general roleblock, but it's placement under side effects suggests that you meant this to apply ONLY to people using ward (that is, that Wards only roleblock other Wards.) Which is it?

[hitogoroshi]

I asked him to not play in this game. As one person behind the computer screen to another. To try and enjoy this, because it should be epic. But he couldn't rise to the occasion. Luckily he's cult this game. And there is an easy solution.

"Rising to the occasion" is replacing out YOURSELF if you don't like a player, not trying to beat them out of a game you want to play.

Fate: I agree Benmage acted pretty clownish here but it doesn't make your ragespam any less spammy.

Ben: Making them lose an action, lose a res. kit, confirming you as town (unless they decide not to perform the ritual) AND letting us lynch someone else today - that's a pretty sweet deal for the low, low price of one insanity. Seems to me that the biggest reason to oppose that is "I actually used Craft Fetish and not Stalk." Savvy?

[hitogoroshi]

Dear everyone: yes, Benmage and Fate's tiff is a slog to read and not relevant to the game. You know what else is a slog to read and not relevant to the game? Your post complaining that the thing we all know is a slog to read, is a slog to read. You don't need to "check in" by whinging about how many posts there are to read, and you don't need to write a post just to say "well that was stupid", . We'll know you're here when you post content.

A lot of people are saying Furc isn't confirmed. Read the very beginning of the game. I called him out for warding and not hearing noise, and Percy responded by fixing the ruleset to show that warding was not intended to make you hear noise in SAIII. The posts were more-or-less simultaneous, and it's extremely unlikely this was any sort of crazy master plan (it would have had to be furc lying about warding, AND making an objective mistake about it making noise, and having the two luckily cancel out.) He's not 100% confirmed, since scum can use the ward action too, but it's a small enough chance that I'm willing to call it nil. We're NOT calling him confirmed just because el goonski heard noise. We're calling him confirmed because an error in the written ruleset makes his use of ward almost mod-confirmed.

@aurorusvox"If he crafted a fetish on Fate, even if Fate died, how would we know it was a murder and not a Ritual that had taken place?"

kills have flavor......................

Wait. Are you saying when someone dies, we'lll know if it was a murderer or the ritual?

....hah. hahaha. BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHA.

The power. THE POWER!

also, rc, consider protecting wickedestjr (or anyone who acquired res kit)/QUOTE]

It seems to me that the best course of action would be compiling a list of everyone who heard noise and wasn't warded, and having the townies reccusicate targets from that list without announcing it in thread. Can anyone think of a problem with this plan?

Andrius, spamming the thread to complain about spam just makes you look like a child.

I have a problem. I NEED Benmage to carry out his kill tonight otherwise he drowns us in WIFOM stew. Do not want. On the other hand, am very much leaning Town on Fate. HALP.

I'm in the same boat as you. What's ethical (not punishing Fate for Ben's arbitrary vendetta) is not the same as what's best for town (having a confirmed kill go through.) Now that I know kills are flavored, I might be able to jury-rig an everyone wins happy time scenario. I have three hours stuck in this computer lab (gogo gadget sinecure) so I'll weigh in again after giving my other games some lovin'.

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: Messed up a quote tag:

also, rc, consider protecting wickedestjr (or anyone who acquired res kit)

It seems to me that the best course of action would be compiling a list of everyone who heard noise and wasn't warded, and having the townies reccusicate targets from that list without announcing it in thread. Can anyone think of a problem with this plan?

Andrius, spamming the thread to complain about spam just makes you look like a child.

I have a problem. I NEED Benmage to carry out his kill tonight otherwise he drowns us in WIFOM stew. Do not want. On the other hand, am very much leaning Town on Fate. HALP.

I'm in the same boat as you. What's ethical (not punishing Fate for Ben's arbitrary vendetta) is not the same as what's best for town (having a confirmed kill go through.) Now that I know kills are flavored, I might be able to jury-rig an everyone wins happy time scenario. I have three hours stuck in this computer lab (gogo gadget sinecure) so I'll weigh in again after giving my other games some lovin'.

(yes Zach, you are completely within your rights to give me shit for that)

[hitogoroshi]

See, this is what I'm talking about, guys. Do we need a post saying "man, it's gonna suck reading 10 pages of crap"? Do we need a post saying "HAHA, it IS going to be that much of a pain to read"? Do we need a post

laughing at that post?

? This is pumping up the post count needlessly just as much as Fate/Benmage did. If you have a joke you absolutely have to tell, or a complaint you absolutely have to gripe about, make yourself write a post full of content then put the joke at the front. Then everyone wins.

For the record, I am depressingly aware of the hypocrisy of making this post without content, telling you guys to stop posting without content. But three of you have managed to throw down content-less posts since 15 minutes ago when I posted my initial plea not to do that, so I feel that maybe I should get this out as soon as possible.

Mod: A player is targeted by Resuscitate, Murder, and The Ritual. What's their death flavor?

[hitogoroshi]

No flavor on resuscitate.

Murder is Murdered
Ritual is Destroyed by an Unspeakable being.

Right, but my question isn't "what are the individual flavors?". In essence, I'm asking if the player is murdered (because the resuscitate fails, and the murder is first) or if they are consumed by the ritual (because resuscitate "pairs off" with the murder, and then the ritual goes through.) The rules as written would have the player murdered, but the rules as intended seem to lean towards it being a ritual kill.

Furc: Right, I'm not disavowing your content. But realize people look at the post count before reading the thread, and if the post count is high they are less encouraged to post and more encouraged to replace out. As a double offense, people are also less likely to replace in to a game with a high post count (this is somewhat mitigated by Stars Aligned being the bees knees.) Just because you're a townie guy with townie posts doesn't mean it's okay for some of your posts to be anti-town.

[hitogoroshi]

Mod: Can Craft Fetish be used on the same investigator more than once a night?

No.

If they want to replace out of SA3 they shouldn't be here in the first place. I don't find laughter to be anti-town.
Are you claiming laughter is anti-town?

Not at all. I love joking and laughing, makes the game much easier to go through. But you'll notice my .gif of dancing glee was NOT posted immediately after Percy's ruling was posted. I saved it for when I had enough stuff to respond to to justify a post. I'm simply asking that everyone else follow a similar standard so the post number/page count doesn't scare people away. Spyrex was in Caught in the Crossfire with me, he can confirm how much overposting can be a problem in large games.

Also,

note to the mod: Please do not take my constant questioning as a sign that your rules are poorly written. In every case, your answer has been the sensible answer. It's just that years of board gaming has taught me to look at the absolute literal interpretations of rules over the sensible ones, and so I always need to ask for clarification even when the answer seems obvious.

Also, I have a proposal: Noone is to select the mutilation insanity (at least not until much later in the game if you are forced to), upon penalty of lynching. This is to stop any murderers using the "oh thats just me being emo" excuse if they are caught out with blood on their clothes.

I agree with this. While I don't think we need to make a town approved sanity list, it is VERY important we make a town-forbidden sanity list.

Hito's Proposal for Forbidden Sanities

• Hallucination - You always hear Noises each Night regardless of actions taken.
  This would deny the town information which is always a raw deal. It also makes it so scum can neatly sidestep noise-based inquires.
  
• Suicidal - You require one less vote to lynch. This is not reflected in vote counts and does not affect Sadism.
  As TNM said earlier, this could put us in LYLO a day early. It's too late for Benmage not to take it but I don't want anyone else doing it.
  
• Sadism - You may only place your votes on players who are one or two votes away from a lynch.
  Scum would love nothing more then to only vote on wagons that are probably sure things. Hell, if I was scum, I'd fake having Sadism
  even if I didn't take it.
  We allow Sadism into the game and pretty much all normal vote-based scumhunting goes out the window. I'll be policy lynching anyone who takes Sadism regardless of what the town thinks.
  
• Denial - Your Insanity Count does not increase tonight, but it will automatically increase by one on each of the following two Nights.
  This allows people to explain away -1 insanity discrepancies (no man, I just took denial) and +1 insanity discrepancies (no man, took denial two days ago.)
  
• Mutilation - You always appear Bloody for the purposes of the Investigate action.
  Again, what TNM said. If you're bloody, this is not an acceptable reason why.

Anyone have any other insanities they think should be forbidden, or reasons why one on my list should be allowed?

[hitogoroshi]

Sadism doesn't bother me but I think a lot can be said with words (If I was a Sadist I'd defintely a.) make it known and b.) make it apparent what wagon I would be voting for at all times) but yea I see both sides.

You know how scum love to FOS their buddies because they can express fake suspicion without having to worry about the consequences? Imagine someone walking in to a game saying "Yeah, I can only FOS or hammer. Doctors orders. Got my prescription right here." Feel the terrible seething hatred in your gut towards that player. That's what happens when we allow Sadism.

I'm saying if I am right and AV gets lynched AND is scum...

DONT KILL FATE DOUBLE PLUS.

Remember we don't get flips on people until their grave is robbed.

Still torn on the fate/benmage thing. On the one hand, it's incredibly unfair to have fate killed for the vendatta Benmage brought in, and it would be great to defuse the whole situation and have them both survive. On the other...

As my ignorance of the issue shows, nowhere in the rules does it state that kills have flavor. Benmage has professed to not reading either of the previous Stars Aligned games. If you didn't know kills had flavor, it would be excellent to Craft Fetish n0, claim Stalk, then Participate in the Ritual n1 and call it a murder. You become a "confirmed townie", and people will latch on to a murder that happened n1 and assume that was the ritual. Let's assume you started this plan by Crafting a Fetish and claiming a Stalk. Then you learn that kills have flavor. Shit! If you go through with the ritual, you're shown to be lying. You can't murder them because you never stalked. Your only chance is to do something else and fake a Resuscitation - those are pretty slim odds for you. If I was scum in that situation, I'd be really goddamn keen to bury the hatchet and not have to put my fake Stalk to the test.

On reflection, not sure how likely that is, though. It's a pretty involved plan for someone with no SA experience to pull out of their ass n0. He could have gotten the idea from a scumbuddy in the quicktopic, but in all likelihood at least one of the people in the topic have at least READ a SA game before and could give the advice to refrain from this sort of plan.

So yeah, actually, I think that we should keep Benmage and Fate alive and that Ben should not follow through on his stalk.

[hitogoroshi]

Ben's suggestion that InvestiFate would have targetted him for a night action but CultiFate would not have is a serious logical gap. In the 438 posts the two of them have made, has this been discussed?

Yep, way back in post 81:

She would've if she was investigator. Fate has no allegiance to PTW. Fate would gladly lynch me or kill me (as town) if I was modconfirmed as town. Thats how awesome (sarcasm) she is. She probably did something else the cult wanted from her.

This is where you lose me. Why would Fate have no allegiance to PTW

as town

, but not as cult? Even if the cult refused to participate in the ritual on you, Fate could still just go Craft Fetish > Pass Fetish every two turns if she's as spiteful as you say.

As an aside, please quote posts you are replying to even if it's the post directly above you. Try to make your posts as ISO-friendly as possible, because this is gonna be a long, long game.

[hitogoroshi]

Seacore, you're focusing on Benmage on what has become a fairly stale issue (my understanding is that Benmage realizes the mistake in his position and no longer intends to follow through on the Fate stalk - please correct me if I'm wrong) and ignoring pretty much everything else. Benmage v. Fate was a distraction that we finally seem to have smoothed over. You trying to keep it alive is annoying enough on it's own. Throw in the fact that you're tunneling Benmage and ignoring basicially the rest of the thread, and that you've literally just said "I think you're scum, but if my arguments for why you're scum don't work, it's a policy lynch," and I am a seriously unhappy hito. Yes, Benmage acted childishly coming in here - and now that's he's showing signs of contrition and maturity, you desperately scrabbling to secure the mislynch is giving me bad vibes.

VOTE: Seacore

[hitogoroshi]

Once again, Furc is in the right but still posts too damn much about it.

I go to the super ice cream fun store. Twenty seven flavors of ice cream! Yum. I decide that I want the Double Chocolate Hyperbanana ice cream - it's my favorite - and I tell the ice cream man at the counter such. However, woe is me, that is not actually a flavor of ice cream at the store! They used to have it, but they decided to add in some SuperStrawberry and you can't get the regular stuff anymore. So technically I've ordered nonexistant ice cream. But guess what? There is NO other ice cream in the store with EITHER Double Chococlate OR Hyperbanana. Double Chocolate Hyperbanana did used to be a flavor, too. So it's a technical error, because I should have looked at the menu and ordered Double Chocolate Hyperbanana SuperStrawberry, but there's

no ambiguity

, is there?

That's what I thought. Now unvote Furc and play the damn game.

[hitogoroshi]

Limited time right now so I'll just hit the most important highlights.

First: Totally my bad missing that it says kills will be flavored in the Q&A. Eliminates basically my entire vestigial doubt on Benmage.

Using the same situation, would you not expect the ice cream man to clarify with the customer whether they still wanted the ice cream now that it included SuperStrawberry? This is the same concept as the lack of Percy's clarification regarding the name switch.

Not if the ice cream man said he would accept unambiguous orders as-is. Yes, coming in with no prior knowledge, I'd expect the mod to ask for clarification - but Percy made sure to EXPLICITLY point out that he would NOT ask for clarification if the intent was clear. It's a fair point that most people would ask for clarification, but the mod took pains to point out that he is following a different approach. Everyone seems to be saying that the post I linked is what confirms Furc as town, which is silly. The digression regarding technical errors with clear intent is clearly what's important here.

Regarding the Fate and Benmage plan: I really, really hate to point this out, because the smart money is on both Fate and Ben being town and a believed role-confirm would put it all to rest. But sadly, Fate's plan doesn't work. If Ben is scum with no insanities, he can just launder for the insanity before commune comes up. It proves nothing - you're going to get a "strictly more insanities" result regardless of what his alignment is.

I propose something far more radical. Look at the circumstance of the thread

and treat each other as tentatively cleared entirely because of the in-thread events.

Buddy up, or at least just start ignoring each other, and scumhunt without looking at the other. Fate seems to agree that Ben is town - Ben, can you agree that Fate's reaction in-thread strongly points towards him being town? There will be plenty of time in subsequent days to re-evaluate the reads on each of you, when there's actually wagons and such to analyze. I'm not asking you to treat each other confirmed forever, but by day one standards of information, can you agree that the whole thing is seriously unlikely to be a scum ploy?

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP:

Everyone seems to be saying that the post I linked is what confirms Furc as

as scum, not town

, which is silly. The digression regarding technical errors with clear intent is clearly what's important here.

[hitogoroshi]

As far as I know, I'm caught up. It's absurdly easy to miss a point in this game, though, and if you think I missed something I probably did. I think we, as a town, should adopt the policy of having all questions directed at other players be presented as such:

Player name:

blah blah blah and what do you think about herp derp?

And if someone misses it, just re-quote. Don't assume someone is deliberately ignoring a point because in this game it's way more likely you missed it in the huge mass of posts.

Hito, your little whatever is flawed. What if I'm allergic to strawberry? What happens if they give it to me without asking?

What happens if you get brainfreeze from warding too many people?? I know the answer to that one: you don't, because

that is not how analogies work

. The analogy was simply an easy-to-understand way of saying "When a small, unique subset becomes part of a larger whole, requesting the subset can and should be unambiguously interpreted as requesting the whole; there is nothing else it can mean." Saying that sentence would have not made sense to everyone. Hence, Double Chocolate Hyperbanana SuperStrawberry.

Lets look at this, since Furcolow has specifically stated that Percy responded to a Furcolow PM, a proovable lie.

Find me the quote. "Percy responding to Furcolow's PM" does not need to be specifically in that time span. Makes plenty of sense that he'd patch the rules error right away when he saw it, and Furcolow's PM could well have been regarding the change in targets instead. And even if it was, nothing stopping Percy from finding the error and writing a response before Furcolow's PM.

Now, the interesting part here is how quickly Furcolow comes up with a possible explanation for not hearing noises. Only a minute to search the rules for the relevant passage, then post about it. And the idea that having your ward fail due to another ward on you would cause you not to hear noises is the best part. This idea is so peculiar that it almost seems like it was prepared in advance.

Ah yes, when Furcolow realized there was a discrepancy he immediately responded with some irrelevant point that would only support his position if he was rush posting without really thinking -

almost like it was prepared in advance.

Is furcolow's wagon still the biggest? How many food analogies will it take to get you guys to stop wagoning the confirmed town?

Fate:

You continue saying Seacore is town but haven't really given a reason why beyond saying you "read his posts more closely." Please enlighten me as to why Seacore is town.

Town Alliance of Awesome
Plum
ReaperCharlie
hitorogoshi

RC and Hito, suggestions for other members? I like to keep my Townreads working like a well-oiled machine <3

Furcolow.

Also I vote that we are The Brofessionals in honor of Furcolow. You don't need to feel slighted, Plum, because Bro is a state of mind and not gender-specific.

Maybe Spyrex can be a bro too. I think I like his points on AV but I have literally zero operating knowledge of AV because I can't remember a single point he (? just guessing with no listed gender) made. I'll need to ISO spy and AV (day and a half and I have to resort to ISO's, hot damn) and try to find my position in the conflict. Also since there seems to be some brahgnotive dissonance on whether the most apbroriate wagon is Baby Spice or Seacore, I'll try to run a comparison between the two. Before the fact I feel that Seacore's tunneling and "if you're not scummy, this is a policy lynch" trumps Baby Spice going after a point that maybe a townie could believe in, but there's never any harm in listening to my bros.

[hitogoroshi]

Sorry for the separate post but I forgot to include this in my main post:

We are NOT using a rez kit just to confirm Benmage as town. Fate said it best:

ASSVOROUX:

REZ KITS SHOULD NOT BE WASTED ON TOWN ON TOWN VIOLENCE. THIS ENCOURAGES INSANITY OF BOTH KINDS

WHAT THE HELL

Sunk costs are an economic fallacy. Ben wasted his N0 action, but that doesn't mean he should waste his N1 action and a rez kit just to confirm himself and make use of his stalk. You can deal with having to prove your alignment by behavior in-thread like the rest of us, with the added bonus that you get a huge head start because your actions are super unlikely from a scum viewpoint. Sure it could be scum WIFOM, which means you will still have to contribute some content to prove your good intentions. It's not worth burning a rez kit and some night actions just to absolve you of this responsibility.

[hitogoroshi]

OK, fair enough. It's an explanation, at least; although I think Benmage fetishing Fate and claiming it as a stalk remains a real possibility. Why do you think it's not?

Fate, Destroyed by an Unspeakable Being N1

Regarding hitogoroshi's insanities disapporval list:
It's a very good list. Those are insanities that as town, I do not want to take nor do I want the rest of the town to take either. I also would favor the ban of choosing Distractions. Some people have a habit of semi-frequently changing votes. If they have this insanity and desired to vote that player they really want to lynch, but can't because they unvoted that player already, it prevents them from being able to pressure their top suspect and force them to vote if they are absolutely confident or maybe not at al. If everyone but two players had this insanity and could not make a majority for a lynch, we would get a no lynch even without requesting it or reaching deadline and we don't want that to happen. I would definently be in favor of making this a forbidden insaity. Severe restrictions, although not complete ban, of the necrophillia insanity would also be a good idea as we should restrict that to 1-4 people max that we can trust to rob graves nightly.

I think I agree re: Distraction. Necrophilia is self limiting (you want to be the only necrophiliac in town so you don't get insanities without loot) so people should be able to police themselves.

[hitogoroshi]

As far as I know, graverobbing as a roleblock is still possible, and something that should be put to use to deal with murderers.

Free Action: You may choose Rob Grave and another Night Action.

I want exactlly one town necrophiliac to ensure cult doesn't get grave dust or equipment. If the rest of the town pledges not to graverob, we either get Furcolow having sweet equipments OR we make cult take extra insanities just to block him (they still don't get anything).

Furcolow

, think you'd be up for the job? We'd of course plan out additional graverobs for the other graves, but I only want one necrophiliac. The catch is that you obviously wouldn't want solist, but we could probably give you special permission to grab voting-based insanities since you have nothing to prove.

I find it highly unlikely that he stalked.

- Furc played in SA II, and in SA II, when warding, you hear a noise regardless of whether anyone visits you
- If Furc lied about Warding (i.e. if he stalked someone) then he would have claimed to have heard a noise, since as far as he would have known, he SHOULD have heard a noise
- Thus, I do not believe he is lying about Warding

- If he warded, then it is very unlikely that he is going murder route
- Occult Book wasted

This is my position in a nutshell. Nicely done, AV.

[hitogoroshi]

I haven't finished my Seacore v. Babyspice and Spyrex v. AV things yet - and likely won't for a few more hours - but I have something I need to say right away.

Bad: Scummy player selected to rob grave, scum get corpse dust and equipment if we're

right

for the cheap cost of one insanity.
Good: Two townies players rob grave, no one gets anything as long as we're right on one of the two, two insanities.
Great: Townie we're sure of robs grave. Cultists not only get nothing, they have to take an insanity on the chin or else we get equipment, one insanity.

The problem with "Great" is that it's terrible if we're wrong on the townie. Furcolow doesn't want to do it, so I guess the question is, is there anyone besides him we feel safe calling "town" and making our graverobber? If not, it's not a huge deal, we can just have two people bounce the grave.

---

I still don't want Benmage to go through with the murder. If he and Fate were both under intense suspicion, it might be worth it. But they're both pretty likely town. Risking the death of one pretty likely town (with losing a Rez kit being our BEST case scenario) just to make another pretty likely town a confirmed town? I don't buy it. It's not worth either losing a townie or blowing a protect just to get the equivalent of a single investigation on a likely town slot.

[hitogoroshi]

I think I'm just going to say this every post:

Furcolow is town.
Ben and fate are both likely enough town that risking resources, actions, and potential deaths to clear one is silly.
Ben should not follow through with the stalk.

--

Makes sense. But this post gives me the willies. Bad willies.

It sounds like hito is fishing, trying to say "lets pick a really TOWN townie... wink wink ME derp"
But he doesn't actually SAY it outright, meaning he's waiting for somebody else to suggest that he do it.

This is mostly accurate, sans the "wink wink...me" part. If I'm the one forwarding the plan that we find a really townie townie to grave rob, then obviously I can't suggest

anyone

, unless they are absolutely confirmed. Hence, furcolow. When he refused it (and no hard feelings, I can see why you wouldn't want to) I was left with a really good plan but it would simply be unfair for the town to take my plan AND my suggested candidate on faith. That's why I didn't suggest myself - because it would have been too much for everyone to take on good intentions, and then the plan itself would be unfairly impugned.

So yes, I was fishing for a volunteer, but I don't care whether it's me or one of my town reads. I have no problem with you grave robbing, RC. You're a brofessional, after all.

---

In the case of Seacore v. Baby Spice:

Seacore hasn't gotten better since my initial vote. He's spent literally the entire game switching between tunneling Benmage and tunneling Furcolow. Not only that, but he's not even tunneling them for scumreads. Regarding Ben, he says that he'd be a good lynch just for being anti-town. And regarding Furcolow, he focuses exclusviely on his belief that Furcolow is mod-confirmed scum. In both cases, he posts as little opinion as possible. He's given virtually no reads and no input on the rest of the players and events in this game.

Baby Spice is actually pretty similar. Lots of tunneling on Furcolow for the belief that he's mod-confirmed scum. Very little interaction with the rest of the players in the thread.

Both pretty equivalent in terms of lack-of-anything, but I have to give the vote to Baby Spice because she still is voting Furcolow (???). Both of you, we're looking for scum, not just people you can accuse for objective reasons without giving your thoughts on anything.

UNVOTE: Seacore
VOTE: Baby Spice

---

Honestly, Spyrex, I'm not seeing your suspicion on AV. I'm getting a bad Caught In the Crossfire flashback here. That being said, you look pretty solidly town right now. In your next post, please either switch your vote from AV or really, really sell me the idea AV is scum.

---

I'm gathering some of the disparate information in this thread for secret hito reasons. If anyone has time, I'd appreciate people going in my spoiler-blocks and fact checking my info/give feedback on my thoughts. If you don't find anything wrong, bad, or missing, let me know that too.

Spoiler: Players who Could Potentially Die Tonight

Fate
hitogoroshi
kunkstar7
Lost Butterfly
rewq455
Seacore
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr
xvart

Spoiler: Forbidden Insanities for N1

Hallucination
Suicidal
Sadism
Denial
Mutilation
Distraction
Necrophilia

Spoiler: Things to Claim in First D2 Post

Whether or not you heard noise
Whether or not you warded, and if so, who?
If you

successfully

Resuscitated (as in, the target died and you brought them back), and if so, who
Whether or not you gained insanities, and if so, what you chose

[hitogoroshi]

Coaching isn't really a tell in a game where scum daytalk...

[hitogoroshi]

Hito, you being the one to suggest not posting useless posts, I advise you to not try to teach a retard actual scum/town tells.

Furcolow is an investigator. If he's wrongly accusing you of being scum, it's not out of malicious intent. You can politely explain why he's wrong without resorting to insults. I can appreciate aggression as one of many tools to gather information, and I can appreciate snapping back at someone when you think their accusations come from them being scum, but neither is applicable here. There's no need to be rude.

[hitogoroshi]

Bit curious about this Seacore wagon, now. What's the purpose? We've got 8 days to go, there's no information you guys particularly seem to be looking for from him, and yet you're happy to take much of the pressure off other suspects who haven't talked so much - like Bowser, <redacted> and <redacted>, for example.

Attention: Trilobite and hitogoroshi

, very interested in your votes in this regard.

Firstly, I feel like my vote on Seacore was for fairly clear reasons. Seacore's tunneling on Benmage left a seriously bad taste in my mouth, and seemed a little too focused on "We caught you doing an anti-town thing, you are now beyond redemption, stop denying us our free (mis)lynch."

Secondly:

Mod: I've been voting for Baby Spice as of 769.

Thanks, I've fixed the vote counts to reflect this. ~Mod

---

What the hell is with all of the "LOL SCUM WITH SEACORE" garbage, Fate?

---

a.) I still have a hate-on for AV despite all you tsk, tskers.

Just going to re-quote myself here:

Honestly, Spyrex, I'm not seeing your suspicion on AV. I'm getting a bad Caught In the Crossfire flashback here. That being said, you look pretty solidly town right now. In your next post, please either switch your vote from AV or really, really sell me the idea AV is scum.

---

What is it with hydra's not keeping up with the game? Triglav has been surprisingly low-impact, El Goosuki and Bowser have been non-entities. That being said, I still don't feel like us just wagoning the lurkers is a strong D1 play here. I normally have an intense love of early eugenic lynching, but the town size here makes it infeasible. There will always been a player who's not keeping up: I'm worried that a few townies are letting scum blend in as they hop from safe vote to safe vote. Yes, Bowser needs to get his ass in here and post, but three days from now when we're looking at the vote counts it's not going to do one iota of good to say "X voted for the lurker, the other lurker, and then a third lurker." We can call out non-contributors in our posts; I'd prefer votes be for reasons that are a little more extant.

---

Why are we wagoning Seacore over Baby Spice? Seacore has at least finally given us other suspects. Baby Spice is still voting for Furc, for heavens sake.

---

Posting these lists one more time. I want a little more fact-checking and opinions before I do anything more definite with them.

Spoiler: Players who Could Potentially Die Tonight

Fate
hitogoroshi
kunkstar7
Lost Butterfly
rewq455
Seacore
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr
xvart

Spoiler: Forbidden Insanities for N1

Hallucination
Suicidal
Sadism
Denial
Mutilation
Distraction
Necrophilia

Spoiler: Things to Claim in First D2 Post

Whether or not you heard noise
Whether or not you warded, and if so, who?
If you

successfully

Resuscitated (as in, the target died and you brought them back), and if so, who
Whether or not you gained insanities, and if so, what you chose

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: I assumed Seacore had a vote down when I wrote that. But I went back and checked and he doesn't? Seacore, your 958 was a perfect place to vote and I'm curious why you didn't. You've been getting a good deal of (justified) flak for not voting, and you respond by saying that you're going to stop defending yourself and start reading. Then you list your scum reads but don't vote for any of them. What gives?

(Acknowledging the Baby Spice ninja, but I have to get to class. I'll respond later today.)

[hitogoroshi]

Percy has posted multiple times after my spoilered text. Presumably if he had a problem with it (and I can't imagine why he would) he would have mentioned such already.

Though I just thought of something:

People playing from their phones/E-readers

: do push-button spoiler tags work alright for you?

---

My next post will either have more on why I'm voting Baby Spice or a revote. If my memory is correct, there's a huge disparity between her "Furc-is-lying" posts and her post where she unvoted him. My memory is absurdly shitty, though, so I'll re-check and report back here.

---

Furcolow:

A lot of your case on LB seems to associative tells - that LB is scum defending scumbuddy x, or parroting scumbuddy y. How much of your case on LB is associative, and if your answer is in the realm of "most", what lynches could we use to "check" LB? I have a good deal of respect for Faraday's play (and I've actually been scum with him before, which should help my reading of him) and if your case on LB is a two-for-one scumpairing I'd probably rather lynch the other potential buddy first.

---

Also.

Spyrex

, meet me at Camera 3.

...Spy. Yo. Buddy. So your first post was a vote on AV. As the game progressed, it seemed to me to be a pretty stale vote you weren't really justified. So I figured, well, I'll bring it up in thread, and either I'll see some sexy new justifications for voting AV or you'll put your vote somewhere else. Win/win.

You didn't respond to that post but mentioned your continued hate-on for AV despite the tsk,tsk'ers. Well, okay, it's easy to miss a point in this monster game, so I'll re-quote it.

You didn't respond to that one, either. But you did move your vote...to RC. The last thing you said about RC was:

<3

I'll admit I had some worries reaper (which I'll get to) but they're gone now. GOD.

So you've got these reasons to sit on your AV vote, but they're not strong enough to stop you from switching to vote someone you've last stated as being a town read with the worries "gone"? Really need your help figuring this one out.

[hitogoroshi]

I think you'll find that's completely unacceptable.

Whether people believe you are town, investigator or whatever, enough people agree that your declaration of your night action so far has been unclear and hardly dependable.

On top of this, you want to not tell us what your insanity is? That is definitely unacceptable. You will openly declare which one it is, so we can track it.

What's unacceptable about the confirmed townie robbing graves? That's awesome and wonderful. Seacore, it really sounds like you're trying to call up a deep well of suspicion on Furc that doesn't exist. I don't like the weaselly "enough people agree that your declaration of your night action so far has been unclear and hardly dependable." Which people where? You're extremely careful to distance yourself from these views. "Hey, I'm fine with you robbing graves, but

I think you'll find

that

enough people agree...

". If you STILL want to call Furc cult or murderer, do so. If you don't, don't try to strong-arm him out of helping the town with vague references to some fierce

other

.

That being said, Furc, I am curious why you don't want to claim insanities. I'm cool with not getting insanities from you (and only you) but I'd at least like a reason.

I have stupidly little time on my hands right now. I have a midterm I'm probably pulling an all-nighter to finish, other games I need to get to, and tests I have to study for. As such, I don't have the time to push a full case on BabySpice at the moment but I can, as promised, state why I'm leaving my vote.

It's this quote that threw me:

So AV you're saying that Furc is too much a VI to properly research a fake ward claim so he really warded?

Vi over maliciousness?

There could be something in that, and it could explain a lot of Furcolow's posts.

(Also, it's VI. Vi is the opposite of VI)

Firstly, while AV's post 663 did come after BabySpice left for Bloodbowl, my 301 came well before. Secondly, and more damning, "too much of a VI to properly research a fake ward claim" is completely backwards. The issue at hand was that

both past experience AND proper research into the pre-amended ruleset would have told Furcolow that warding would produce noise. For him to report that he did not heard noise basicially proves that he warded and was telling the truth.

It feels like a couple of cultists were on the Furc wagon with BabySpice when she left for Bloodbowl. Some investigators (myself included) tirelessly argue for Furc to the point that the wagon can't be pushed anymore. All others exeunt. BabySpice comes back on a lonely wagon with a QT presumably calling for a Furcolow exodus. She wants to get off the wagon, and she makes a post to that effect. But she doesn't understand why Furc is clear in the first place, so her reason is pitiful and feels artificial. Sotty caught on to that as well.

To summarize my point: someone as dedicated to the "Furcolow lied" narrative as BabySpice would probably only be convinced by the actual truth. Her rationale "too VI to fake a ward claim" is incorrect, and given her previous vehemence, feels like a cop-out to get off an unpopular wagon.

[hitogoroshi]

No, I won't let the cultists track my insanities
sorry

This doesn't really seem like a problem, though. About the only insanity that the cult could use against you if they knew about it is Marked, and you shouldn't be taking that anyway.

[hitogoroshi]

Furcolow, you're thinking of suicidal, first off. :p

Secondly, you're not getting lynched in this thread unless the entire town comes to the conclusion that you're going to go murderer. I don't believe that (what kind of murderer wards N0?) but transparency regarding your insanities will help appease the haters.

As for equipment weaknesses, I think a fair compromise is not having to claim the equipment. You claim solist, but stay mum on what you have. Or you claim taboo, but stay mum on what you taboo. Etc.

(By the way, if you plan to grave rob every night, my advice for insanity order goes something like this. Necrophilia first, then Twitchy, then (assuming you got some equipment) Taboo equipment you don't want, then Solist and keep something you do want. Throw in Compulsion and maybe Hallcination/Mutilation (I suspect that as the days advance we'll be lifting the ban on those insanities) and you've got a solid game plan cult can't take advantage of.)

[hitogoroshi]

Oh, I missed that Rob Grave doesn't work with Solist. I thought that if you had no equipment grave robbing would work. Yeah, scratch that recommendation. You could probably get special permission for some of the other insanities if it came to that. Not paranoid, though - that's the only one that can really be gamed by scum.

Also, how the FUCK did no one mention Paranoid for my forbidden insanities list. I just thought of it and that shit is terrible.

[hitogoroshi]

Only the section under "Hear Noise" was changed, but that doesn't matter. "Hear Noise" stated that you hear noise when you ward, and "Ward" does NOT explicitly deny that warding makes noise. It says absolutely nothing about whether or not warding makes noise. Because of this, the positive statement "You hear noise when you ward" is what applies. That's how rulesets work. In SAII, warding caused noise, and the ruleset as written at the start of the game confirmed that interpretation.

[hitogoroshi]

Welcome to the Investigator’s Reference, a guide to help you make the right decisions and get your information out in a way that’s easily readable for your fellow investigators. Because there are actions that would benefit cultists and murderers if they could get away with them,

ignorance of the law is no excuse

, so make sure you read it thoroughly!

Spoiler: What action should I take tonight?

This is a terrible night to take

Cower

or

Launder

. Because you’re not bloody, both of these will give you an insanity with no benefit. Remember, you must claim every action that gives you an insanity, so if you neglect to send in a night action and end up cowering, you must claim it in your first post or you will be lynched!

This is a decent night to

Search

for equipment.

This is a good night to

Ward

someone. If they did not hear noise last night, this will ensure their survival through at least Day Three. If they did hear noise last night, warding won’t prevent a murder or ritual, but it will prevent additional Stalk or Craft Fetish uses.

Do not take the

Rob Grave

option. The town will be selecting their graverobber or graverobbers in thread, and interfering will only get you a needless insanity. This is NOT a valid excuse for having a higher-than-expected insanity count, so don’t do it!

This is an excellent night to choose the

Resuscitate

option. The following players heard noise and were not warded:

Fate
hitogoroshi
kunkstar7
Lost Butterfly
rewq455
Seacore
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr
xvart

Chose your town-reads from that list and protect one, preferably randomly to make it more difficult for the scum to plan their nk. Remember too that the scum have access to the

Greater Ritual

, so don’t worry about choosing a target because “someone else might pick them too.” Stacking Resuscitates can be useful. Regardless of your decision, do NOT announce it in thread before we go to night.

Do not chose to

Investigate.

Investigate resolves before both Murder and The Ritual, so the only people will be bloody are those who got an insanity N0 and choose mutilation – an extremely unlikely prospect.

Do not chose

Stalk

or

Murder

. While stalking and murderering can confirm a town, it’s best to do it on a later day when the murderer wincon is virtually impossible to achieve for someone starting out. All plans regarding stalking and murdering while remaining an Investigator should be mentioned in thread.

If we discover a player who murdered and attempt to conceal such from the town, we will assume they are aiming for the murderer win condition and lynch them.

Do not be that player.

This is a poor night to use

Commune.

It will catch someone who stalked N0, but it will only catch a Cultist who crafted three fetishes n0, which likely none of them did. In addition, it will give you an insanity, meaning that you will NOT be able to find Cultists who are tied with you for insanities. If you wait a night to Commune, you will also catch any Cultists who Participated in the Ritual, while still being able to find murderers. Only Commune tonight if you have a strong reason to believe that your target has stalked N0 and is aiming for the Murderer win condition.

Spoiler: What happens if I get an Insanity?

Insanities happen. Maybe you were killed and resuscitated, maybe you got passed a fetish of yourself. Here are the insanities you are

forbidden

from taking N1:

Hallucination
Suicidal
Sadism
Denial
Mutilation
Distraction
Necrophilia
Paranoid

Having any of these insanities will be treated as a Cultist/Murderer claim.

Remember, you will be claiming any actions that gave you insanities, so

Twitchy

is a solid first insanity for you to take. Twitchy is only detrimental to those who wish to conceal their insanities – you have nothing to hide.

This list will likely be amended as the days pass. Voice ideas for insanity amendments in thread - but do it BEFORE night falls.

Spoiler: What should be included in my first post of the day?

For your first post, copy and paste this code:

Code: Select all

[area=CD2]Username:
Did you Hear Noise?
Did you Ward? If so, who?
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?
List all of the insanities you currently have:
Did you [b]successfully[/b] resuscitate? If so, who?
Were you murdered?
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)
Twitch?[/area]

Which will give you this:

CD2

Username:
Did you Hear Noise?
Did you Ward? If so, who?
Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?
List all of the insanities you currently have:
Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?
Were you murdered?
Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)
Twitch?

Fill this out and include it in your first post of the day.

A few notes. The "CD2" means "Claims Day 2", and it is there to make it easier to find these posts using ctrl+f. Your username should be written exactly. A successful use of resuscitate is defined as one that leaves you bloody. If your target is targeted by multiple kill actions and dies, it was still a "successful" use because you blocked a kill. The "twitch?" is there as a friendly reminder for those who took the Twitchy insanity. A reminder on the rules of Twitchy:

Twitchy - If you heard Noise the Night before, you are Bloody, gained an Insanity the Night before, or any combination of these, your first post in the thread for the Day must contain *twitch* or *twitches*.

Do not post *twitch* or *twitches* in your first post if you do not have the twitchy insanity or do not meet the prerequisites.

Yes, you can *twitch* even without the insanity, but all it does is create needless ambiguity about whether you have more insanities than claimed or not. This guide was written so we can lynch people who give us these kinds of dilemmas instead of having to play the "are they cult, murderer, or just trying to be cute?" game.

If you have any ideas for changes, let me know. If you can't open spoiler tags ever (only negative result I heard was from Furpants, and I dearly hope he's not ONLY playing this from his Blackberry) let me know and I can repost this not in spoilers.

Reads and such coming from me tonight hopefully, though I have other games to get to first. Exciting preview: I can understand BabySpice's point of view (A lack of mention still doesn't trump a specific affirmation, but I can see why she would think that nothing written in "side-effects" would be definitive [even though it's not :<]) so I'll be looking in to other wagons. RC is my bro but I'm getting a serious smell of fake-scum-dignity from 1225 so I'm going to give the case on him a careful look. Getting a pretty powerful town read off of Trilobite (Sotty seems a little too involved to be scum). Curious what Plum thinks about the case on RC.

[hitogoroshi]

HITO. WHY DO I NOT SHOW UP IN THIS LIST WHEN I JUST CLARIFIED I HEARD NOISE AND DIDNT WARD?

Whoops, sorry! (Only not that sorry because you kind of invited that on yourself by "crumbing" [???] your results instead of just saying them like everyone else.) This has been sitting on my desktop for a few days so I did not think to edit in that recent development.

If there are enough little bits I need to change, I'll post a revised guide before night falls. If it's just that - rez kit havers, remember to include Andrius, but I'm not gonna repost the whole song-and-dance just for that.

Also, someone needs to rez hitogoroshi.

This is important. He may have more plush Cthulhu pictures!

This is truth. Also, if point out errors or bad judgment calls in the guide,

any revised guide editions will be accompanied by new pictures to clearly mark that they need to be re-read

, so suggest pro-town fixes and receive cool new pictures!

(Also, if I die, someone else should pick up the mantle of writing the Investigator's Reference.)

[hitogoroshi]

"Hey guys I think AV is actually a taco"

"uhh no, tacos are incapable of communicating via written english"

"YOUR DEFENSE OF AV IS NOTED"

(it looks just as petty when you do it, don't threaten people for doing your homework)

Anyway I'll go ahead and

unvote

now, but won't revote until I can give this game a bit of time to figure out which wagon I like the most.

No one but Furcolow graverobs tonight.

Also I don't see why people want to keep their insanities secret. Making people pin themselves down on insanity number and identity means we can catch a murderer/cultist with a single out-of-place insanity. If we just do number, they'll obviously claim whatever insanity we find evidence of as the one they took, even if they're hiding more we didn't find. What are you honestly worried about the cult knowing in terms of your insanities?

[hitogoroshi]

Regarding the RC Wagon

I think the accusation from Triglav re: not answering questions is pretty irrelevant. The hyped "contradiction" seemed to be pretty small-potatoes and innocuous. I can see why it'd seem bigger to Triglav than it really was in terms of the game-at-large. Reaper's ISO 77, by contrast, smells super scum, and his subsequent bi-polar hop strikes me as a quick topic coached "RC you numbnuts, you'll get lynched in a heartbeat doing the defeatist thing, just try to contribute your way out of suspicion." Reaper's ISO 88 on Bowser has an air of "But he's not even posting, this wagon isn't faaaaaaiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrrr" that I interpret as a scumtell (townies tend to care more about "right or wrong", while scum look for reasons their wagon is "unfair".) His "well GAWSH the scum can x?" posts are harder for me to interpret - it really seems like a meta thing whether you like to indulge in those sorts of WIFOM gambles as scum or not. Would appreciate someone with RC experience weighing in on the matter.

Overall, RC's certainly dropped from "Brofessional Elite" to "maybe cult". My problem is that the scummy things he's doing DON'T seem to be what sparked the wagon. To be honest, someone hopping on Triglav's point to lynch RC doesn't seem entirely sincere, while votes for his "oh-woe-is-me-I-am-a-doomed-townie" post really resound with me.

Here's a little thing for you guys. Start at post 1000 and scroll down. That is a pathetic fart of a wagon. There's no way in goddamn hell I'd want to support that. And now we have a RC wagon I kinda support, and the whole thing gives me the willies.

I'll need to look at the wagon in context to make a really good judgment. I realize that that doesn't tell you guys much, so I'll outline what I'm looking for. If the RC wagon swelled off of this piddly base, I've got some serious bad vibes, it's probably scum driven on town-RC. If it swelled instead off of his more worrying posts, there's a good chance that this little thing switched into a strong pressure wagon and got us a scum. Or, to summarize - an RC wagon makes sense in hindsight, but I'm not quite sure if it made sense when it was made or if the scum just set up an arbitrary wagon and got a lucky, scummy looking reaction out of him.

Preview edit: "Unannounced/unforeseen V/LA" wat

Also, I'm working on a story draft for creative writing (~20 pages). I always have time to read threads, but my posting is gonna be at this same not-so-great level for a few days. If there is something I simply must address, be kind and give me a nice bold

@hito

on it's own line.

Preview edit 2 electric booglalo:

Raging misanthopy getting you down? Neighbours calling the cops every time you make a phone-call to your loved ones? Mumbling winos in bus shelters shuffling away from you as you approach? Try new Passive Aggression (tm)!

Mmm... subtle hints of misquoting followed with the rich aftertaste of flail. Pick up your MoI sampler pack of Passive Aggression (tm) today!

While this is kind of a hypocritical way for Furpants to complain about passive aggression... :p There is passive aggression all over this town and it's getting pretty annoying. Call people scum or call them town, but don't just throw down "YOUR X IS NOTED" or "OH NICE Y THERE" or "WE WANT TO ROBS Z's GRAVE." that just leads to uncertainty, bad feelings, and food analogies

[hitogoroshi]

@Fate:

It's undeniable that there is a level of self-preservation in your case on Benmage. Separate the elements of personal survival from it. I don't want to know how good you think it is that he dies - I want to know how likely you think he is to be cult. Give me both an absolute value, and a value relative to ReaperCharlie. Don't lie.

[hitogoroshi]

YES I do think Benmage will flip cult Hito.

What about Reaper?

[hitogoroshi]

My stances on Reaper have been made clear. In contrast to Benmage I think that Ben's motivations are far more cult-like than Reaper's. I was just producing a wagon counter to Reaper's for all those unhappy with that wagon.

I want everyone in the town to play a game. It's called "Read Fate's ISO pages five and six." Look at that ReaperCharlie hate. There's wagons, there's ragecaps, the works. Then look at his case on Benmage. Whoops! That's not actually a thing! Because he says FUCK ALL about Benmage, and his posts before that suggest that he thinks Benmage is an investigator (particularly his fears that Benmage will still murder him tonight).

The ReaperCharlie case was starting to look delicious. I figured I owed it to him to at least do an involved wagon analysis to assuage my doubts about it's dubious beginnings before I voted for him. I was about to dig in - and suddenly here's Fate with the switcheroo. He's selling us bullshit and telling us it's ice cream cake. But I went to Dairy Queen and wouldn't you know it, they don't have any Benmage Cult there. And the really goddamn weird thing is, Fate had just spent two pages of ISO telling us about this great RC Cult cake that actually WAS cake.

So I was thinking - why?

The answer sounds a little insane, but hear me out. I think RC and Fate are scumbuddies.

ISO 94, Fate pings RC. He hits a lot of people on that list. Scuffles with RC a bit, and then votes in ISO 101. I especially love the line "well if you're gonna make it VIABLE", or, as I chose to interpret it, "well if you're gonna HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE FOR MY FAKE SUSPICION."

How many times has Reaper said "I LOVE THIS POST" to people? I bet every single one (sans one or two, NOPOINT'S in particular felt forced as NOPOINT didn't really make ag reat first impression) of his early ones are CONFTOWN on a ReaperScumFlip.

For posterity.

ISO 123, Fate hops over to Plum because of history involving another game that he thinks will look plausible. Unfortunately, we call him out on it and in ISO 127 he's back on.

And Fate plays the part well. So well, in fact, that when he first switched to Benmage I figured a Fate scumflip would confirm Reaper as town. But then I realized that a.) that's exactly the effect Fate knows a strong case like this would have and b.) that still doesn't explain why he switched.

Let's look at that beautiful switch, shall we?

Here's Fate's last post on Reaper, ISO 148. He's still on the Reaper wagon as hard as ever. It's currently sitting at L-5. But then, something happens. Something

magicial.

Furpants_Tom's 1446.

That right there is a delicious, wonderful post. That's the post that put me firmly in the Reaper-is-cult camp. And it put him to L-4. About a page later, Wraith puts him to L-3.

This wagon is out of Fate's control, now. And if Fate was being truthful about his suspicion on RC, that'd be awesome! This day has gone on far too long (Fate expressed a desire to finish D1 in less than 50 pages) and look, that guy you spent dozens of posts calling for the lynch of is getting lynched. This is NOT awesome if Fate and RC are scumbuddies, though, because then Fate no longer has control over the wagon. He's gotta hit the brakes or this bus is gonna go all the way.

Guess which one happens?

Unvote
Vote: Benmage

I will have a rally-esque post tonight on why this is the best move. What kind of rally?

The Rally to Restore Sanity

It will be epic.

It will be awe-inspiring.

And most of all, it will be convincing.


RC nay-sayers look out, the real alternate viable is coming tonight to a forum near you.

Peace, I'm on my way to the actual rally to prepare the mood.

Poor Fate. You're going to the rally, so you don't have the time to push this counter-wagon! As a compromise, he makes sure to immediately unvote and loudly proclaim that a counter-wagon is coming. This pretty much stops the RC wagon in it's tracks. Here's the thing, though -

why the hemorrhaging fuck

are you looking to create a viable alternative to the RC wagon? If you think the people wagoning RC are town, then the people on the sidelines have a lot of scum in their ranks. Why exactly are you appealing to THEM?

A lot of people (myself included, before this Benmage fiasco) had Fate on their townlists. If Benmage didn't murder him, well golly gee, Fate had a decent chance of making it to endgame. That would be why he tried to disarm the knife pointing at his heart with 1516. I don't understand why everyone thinks that 1516 is a good case. It's bringing up a bunch of old shit from the days when Fate's read was "Ben is a town clown." The same posts that first lead Fate to believe he had to stop Benmage murdering him suddenly read cult. It tries too hard.

But I mean...ReaperCharlie? Who the hell is that guy? He's gone - and golly gee, what a good time to not show up so Fate can tactfully ignore your existence as long as possible. But hey, no one is talking about RC, so GAWSH I guess we gotta lynch Benmage now huh?

No. We are hopping the fuck back on the ReaperCharlie wagon. Fate, if you're actually a townie, you're coming with. Your Benmage case is skeevy as hell and Ben is much, much less likely cult than RC. The fact that as town you'd have to not see this makes me think the chance is kinda slim, but there you go.

Let's roll, kids.

Vote:ReaperCharlie

[hitogoroshi]

God. Every time I want to sit here and catch up another 3 pages are added and I'm like "fuck".

So I'm posting what I have (which goes to like... page 50-something) and catching up on the new stuff later. Shit you guys post alot.

The game would be 1/25th of a page shorter if you didn't feel the need to keep us informed on how big the game is. You can just put this note on the top of the page of what you have.

PREVIEW EDIT: Hito's got some mad skillz. Yes. I'm usually pretty wary of associative tells before any flips have happened though. I want to think about it properly, not just skim that chunk of stuff in the preview window but good grief I think you're onto something there. BUT in that case the safer bet I'd almost want to say is on Fate, given that his switch from RC to Benmage implicates him more strongly than RC because he's the one with the not-fitting behavior there

and[/]i] the self-preservation thing as far as I can see stands even if RC isn't his buddy.

Yeah, but we don't have someone ready to murder RC, now do we~

I figure it's fairly obvious that with my fate-town read gone, so to is my opposition to Ben following through. I think if we control a couple of variables we can make the murder happy great success for glory of investigators, but I'm not quite done looking in to that.

[hitogoroshi]

Hito, you have COMPLETELY missed the point of at least two pages worth of posts.

From what I can tell, you're arguing the point that we should lynch Benmage for what amounts to an anti-town ethics violation. That's silly.

The Benmage cult case is similarly silly.

If you have some point you wish to bring up against me, then bring it up. Don't just say "OH LAWL HITO DON'T GET IT" and then submit the post. I've said it before: I am utterly sick of this town's passive-aggressive sniping. If there are weaknesses in my case, address them instead of simply whining and alluding to their existence.

I do not think Fate is town. I want to hear why Fate-town disarmed the awesome RC wagon for this terrible Benmage one. Don't say "town fate wanted to not be murdered by town-Benmage" because I made sure to discount that possibility before proceeding.

[hitogoroshi]

@hito: I've played enough game's that I'd consider myself experienced. Benmage would have been lynched by PAGE TWELVE if the town were half-sane.

What did I just say about passive-aggressive sniping? You're ignoring my point and resorting to an appeal to authority that

you don't even have.

We're in a game with Plum, Spyrex, VP, Triglav, Trilobite, etc., and you're just insulting all of us while throwing out unfitting analogies. Speaking as both the High King of Analogies and someone cognizant of how good some of these players are, this displeases me.

Benmage is not some lurking virus. He clearly doesn't want to go murderer, and even if he does, he won't be able to. The main opposistion to Benmage murdering is if you think Fate is townie. I used to think that, so I opposed it; now I do not think that, so I do not. If you wish to argue to the contrary, feel free to do so, but cut out the bad analogies and insults without substantiation.

Why would Fate run up the bus and then abandon it? Further, considering Ben's amazing attitude this game a Fate-ran bus doesn't do any good because Ben's made it abundantly clear that he's killing Fate regardless. If anything, in a Fate-scum scenario here I'd say RC is town.

He ran it up and abandoned it because it was a bus, and why bus when you can mislynch a townie and save your cult-buddies a rez kit instead? I suppose it's vaguely possible that Fate was hopping from one mislynch to another that saved his team a rez kit, but it was such an absurdly awkward switch that the stakes seem too high for just "from one misylnch to another, slightly better mislynch." More importantly, let's suppose he got Benmage now and RC tomorrow. If RC flipped scum, that'd damn near 'confirm' Fate, and there'd be no Benmage to murder him. That's another plausible explanation I can see for the switch.

Hito: I'd like you to repost your Night 1 cheat sheet.

Can you also add, that over rezing Fate is a great idea. As it'll potentially neutralise cult's kill as well, or at the very least, keep them guessing?

I will repost the Investigator's Reference in a bit here (with the Andrius change - speak up if you have any idea for other changes.) However, I think it might be better if Benmage murders Fate and NO ONE rezzes. The only way the cult can stop the "fate was murdered" message would be to Rez Fate themselves. cult using a rez kit > townies using rez kits.

[hitogoroshi]

What if we give you a clear shot with no townies rezzing?

[hitogoroshi]

Show me the logical progression where my cult buddies don't protect me N0,

Obviously they didn't. Mayhap some of your in-thread anger towards Benmage is directed at your scumbuddies who dropped the ball? I don't see it at all hard to believe that no one on your scumteam took Benmage seriously enough to divert from the usual cult actions.

show me WHY if I am suddenly abadoning my "RC bus" did I choose BENMAGE, someone who most everyone has thought as town up until this point.

He was lurking, he's unpopular, you clearly were able to write a giant wall about him, and the case was clearly convincing to quite a few people.

The motivation behind my actions is clear, I want to live and the only way to guarantee that is to get Benmage to promise not to kill, or lynch him. Yes self-preservation, but self-preservation of someone who is widely regarded as TOWN and competent is not a bad thing.

This is completely true, which is why I posted this:

@Fate: It's undeniable that there is a level of self-preservation in your case on Benmage. Separate the elements of personal survival from it. I don't want to know how good you think it is that he dies - I want to know how likely you think he is to be cult. Give me both an absolute value, and a value relative to ReaperCharlie. Don't lie.

I gave you a chance to take this out. You instead replied that Benmage looked scummier than RC. You can't scramble for this escape now, because I made sure to check this blind spot before I started.

TLDR: If ANYONE is bussing RC it is now Hito, because he is drawing direct lines from me to RC and assuming RC will flip scum. I mean seriously, did the almighty TOWNHITOGOD even ONCE say "but if RC flips scum, don't shoot Ben." No. He doesn't, he's drawing lines when he SHOULDN'T be because the "connection" I have made to his scumbuddy is so clear.

Bwahahaha. Yes, I think the odds that RC will flip scum are very good. Remember that great case you were pushing like a couple of days ago? The one Furpants made even sweeter? Am I now scummy for believing this case?

And let me get this straight - now you're saying

I'm

bussing RC? cool story bro

Note how even in "RC town" scenarios he paints me as scum, trying so desperately to get myself saved. Like I said his response to my "why would I go to such lengths to save a rezkit for my cult buddies" will determine a lot. I just don't like his post-and hence his excuse-to jump on the RC wagon one bit at all.

What I actually said was:

I suppose it's vaguely possible that Fate was hopping from one mislynch to another that saved his team a rez kit, but it was such an absurdly awkward switch that the stakes seem too high for just "from one misylnch to another, slightly better mislynch.

I don't really believe you'd go to such lengths to save a rezkit for your buddies. That's the point. I think that the only explanation for your hop from RC to Benmage is that the former was a bus. I was addressing that hypothetical because Spyrex said he thought you scum-RC town would make more sense in that scenario. I disagreed, but I still proffered up what *could* be an explanation for you scum-RC town. I don't think it's a likely one, and nor do I think that you being a townie and wanting to disarm this amazing wagon you set up makes sense. That's why I believe you and RC are scumbuddies.

Note that's what I say "enough to lose his town read" NOT "Benmage take the shot tonight kill him." Not once did Hito say "if RC flips scum, Ben should take the shot, no townies should rez."

We don't learn RC's flip until D2. Murder has to be done the night after the stalk. I guess that's a moot point, though, since Ben is apparently not following through on the stalk. I think it would be better for him to Murder, but it only takes a single townie rez to cock up the whole thing.

[hitogoroshi]

Hey guys, please post/repost your stuff this way:

Code: Select all

[area=CD2]
[b]Username:[/b] 
[b]Did you Hear Noise?[/b]
[b]Did you Ward? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?[/b]
[b]List all of the insanities you currently have:[/b]
[b]Did you [u]successfully[/u] resuscitate? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Were you murdered?[/b]
[b]Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)[/b]
[b]Twitch?[/b]
[/area]

so it's easier for us to find in the future.

CD2

Username:

hitogoroshi

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

Yes, Trilobite

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

No

List all of the insanities you currently have:

None

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No

Twitch?

No

---

Warded Trilobite because they're three strong players that I have a fairly good town read on.

My case on Fate was driven by the need to explain his drastic switch on ReaperCharlie. If that switch was driven by out of game information that RC is town, then sadly they're probably both investigators. I don't understand a.) why he didn't just replace out when learning that and b.) why he didn't understand that his switch looked scummy to people without his out of game info, but there you go. They're probably both town, and if it's a choice to dispatch *or* lynch I'd much rather lynch.

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: Oh, should have scrolled up in my preview, looks like it's unlimited free dispatches barring a disagreement from Percy. Jawesome. Let me think about if we want to double dispatch and deal with three corpses.

[hitogoroshi]

El Goosuki heard noise. xvart is not bloody.

:s I wrote that Investigator's Reference for a reason. Of course he wasn't bloody. Investigate resolves before Murder and The Ritual. NO ONE was bloody. That was a wasted action.

Everyone in your next post, answer the following questions:

1) Do you think dispatching one or both of Fate and RC is a good idea today?
2) If yes, who do you think we should dispatch?
3) If no, do you never want to dispatch them or just not today?

Dispatch RC. He could have been lying in his QT. ONLY a townie would suddenly give up a wagon 'learning' someone was town (scum would already know). So dispatch/rob grave on RC should cover our blind spot. About the only situation where this fails is if Fate was scum trying to trick RC into believing he was town by changing his opinion off of the in-QT towntell. If Fate was gaming the out of game information THAT hard - well. I'll dispatch as soon as Percy confirms it's separate from our lynch.

Furcolow should rob RC's grave and get the shiny, shiny rez kit he probably has. We can designate two pairs to bounce the graves of our lynch today and LB.

To minimize potential cult interference, we should have people volunteer OTHERS to bounce graves. I know it kinda sucks to hear "I chose you to get an insanitiy!" but it makes it much more difficult for cult to get dust without cultists nominating cultists in-thread (which carries it's own risks).

VP, you should be one of the four people bouncing graves tonight.

Since I know I'm being targeted by the cult and am probably being targeted by Benmage, I'd appreciate a pair of rezzes when night comes.

Cult can only Craft one Fetish of you a night (remember my dancing .gif) and they can't pass and craft on the same night. You're safe from the cult tonight.

[hitogoroshi]

Furc, xvart warded El Goosuki.

I'd be okay with Wicked submitting Launder and Rob Grave on RC (if he doesn't launder he can't get the kit.) Scum could have planned the kill/res on a buddy but that seems pretty unlikely to me.

[hitogoroshi]

I'd be okay with Wicked submitting Launder and Rob Grave on RC (if he doesn't launder he can't get the kit.) Scum could have planned the kill/res on a buddy but that seems pretty unlikely to me.

EBWOP: Actually, let's hold off on that until all of the claims come in. If multiple people were successfully rez'd it makes Wicked being town much less certain.

[hitogoroshi]

Sorry for the delay there. Was laid low by a combination of sickness and tests. (Also, I finally started reading A Song of Ice and Fire...I'm sure Faraday and Seacore can understand that timesink. :p)

Benmage should follow through on his stalk.

Am curious why ElG apparently didn't read my guide. The idea behind posting a picture in the thread and making it stupidly obvious that a guide is here is so we can avoid the WIFOM game of "oh, I just didn't notice x". This would appear at first glance to be one of those, but do scum really get a large benefit by lying about an investigate? Or is this more likely to be a legit mistake? I'll need to think on it.

Everyone on the Benmage wagon:

seriously, there is like zero chance Benmage is cult. Move your vote please?

Random thought for everyone: let's say you knew you were the target of Benmage's stalk. What would be your reaction?

Plum is still town, Spyrex is still town, VP is looking a lot better now than his low-impact D1. I like his 2066 and I am totally willing to sheep it until I get my head back in the game.

BAAAAAAAAAAAAA

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

[hitogoroshi]

Hehe, A Game of Thrones is bloody addictive. I like the later books more, but the first was probably the hardest to put down. If you read fast enough, you'll be ready for our next game.

Yeah, first was the hardest to put down. I read that bastard in two sittings and missed quite a bit of sleep for it. Clash of Kings took a little longer, but I saw the end in sight and finished it around seven this morning. Time to read Storm of Swords for your theme game~

Yeah, AV's plan is the only true way to test that because no investigator should be bloody other than rezzers or potential murderers. We know the former and the latter aren't going to claim to be bloody. Of course, the problem is that right now Wicked is one of the best people to grave rob and therefore wouldn't have an action available to launder. We could replace him in the grave robbing with another pro-town person or put me back in there, but that is theoretically riskier for the town.

Wicked can do one grave rob and launder. It seems to be that the townie looking people we're choosing to grave rob would be better off doing one rob and an action, while the people we're relegating to bouncing graves because they look scummy should do double. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[hitogoroshi]

Sorry for the intense lurking. I've hit a relative lull in my schedule so I'll try to catch my shit up.

First thoughts: MoI seems have an intense "sneer" feel in his posts. He's not giving off the vibe of "geez, you guys are on the wrong track" as much as "HAHA, your case is PITIFUL." I tend to call this a pretty strong scumtell, but it's also one that's very meta-dependant (i.e, some players sneer against all cases against them all the time regardless of alignment.) Would appreciate someone with meta knowledge of MoI to weigh in on this one.

El G's vote on Nico is super-skeevy. It seems an awful lot like "shit, who's lurking harder than us? That's the only person we can vote in good faith!"

Someone (wicked or fur, forget which) wanted me to weigh on kunkstar. I literally have nothing in my head about him - his positions, his actions, etc. I'll have to ISO him to get a read; thanks for pointing out this blind spot.

[hitogoroshi]

I'm down with grave robbing. Sign me up, subscribe me to the newsletter, etc.

El G, Nico has lurked a shitton, but you don't get free townie brownies just for pointing it out and jumping up and down. If he continues to lurk, murdering would be better anyway - I'd prefer lynch wagons be on active players for more reasoning then "HE DIDN'T POST MUCH, DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE". I hate lurkers as much as you, but saying "lookit the lurker lookit the lurker lookit the lurker lookit lookit" is about as content-less as actually lurking.

@Seacore:

What do you have against lynching MoI?

[hitogoroshi]

Man, it's the damndest thing. I always go "Shit, I'm behind in Stars Aligned!" and then I go to the thread and it's dozens of pages of procedural bullshit. Thankfully I'm still super-happy with the MoI wagon but I don't want the same slog tomorrow because our whimsywagon might not hit scum then.

(the phrase 'whimsywagon' is not to denigrate VP et. al for their stalwart wagoning efforts)

I'll roll with plan A.

I like this bit from Plum 2265:

Not make waves? Hm? Does it count if I happily watch people add their votes on to you on top of my own? And are you finally outright accusing me of being scummy?

I've had enough of your stupidity here. I happen to know that you're not stupid, but acting like you are isn't winning you any points. Kinda like what SpyreX said about the acting scummy on purpose thing . . . the fact that your play went down this path, intentionally or not. Is not license for you to sit back, self-vote, call your wagon an easy one and toast yourself. While calling other people stupid. In other words, cheers.

Would appreciate nice clean area tags with VP's recommendations for night actions and our final designations for grave robbers. I'll make a shiny new Investigator's Reference for everyone to read. (that includes you ElG)

[hitogoroshi]

I don't quite catch what you're saying here. What is the "slog" currently?

Slog is best defined here as: posts that no one will care about on future days. Aruging about graverobbing and such, that has no real bearing on who's scum and who's town and won't be worth re-read on future days.

I do intend to compile a final guide that everyone must follow, but I'd first like you and Seacore (and Feysal apparently) to post your thoughts in an easy to spot area tag so I'm absolutely sure that I'm not missing something from you while compiling.

[hitogoroshi]

*dashes in before percy*



Welcome to the Investigator’s Reference, a guide to help you make the right decisions and get your information out in a way that’s easily readable for your fellow investigators. Because there are actions that would benefit cultists and murderers if they could get away with them,

ignorance of the law is no excuse

, so make sure you read it thoroughly!

Spoiler: What action should I take tonight?

This is a terrible night to take

Cower

or

Launder

. Because you’re not bloody, both of these will give you an insanity with no benefit. Remember, you must claim every action that gives you an insanity, so if you neglect to send in a night action and end up cowering, you must claim it in your first post or you will be lynched!

This is a mediocre night to

Search

for equipment. It's better to use equipment rather than search for it, especially because rez kits might get lost by you turning bloody if you sit on them too long.

This is a good night to

Ward

someone. These are the players who don't currently have a fetish and are thus the best ward targets:

Those Without Fetishes

Andrius
Benmage
El Goosuki
Iecerint
Nicodemus
nopointinactingup
Seacore
Triglav
Trilobite
Wraith

Do not take the

Rob Grave

option. The town will be selecting their graverobber or graverobbers in thread, and interfering will only get you a needless insanity. This is NOT a valid excuse for having a higher-than-expected insanity count, so don’t do it!

This is an excellent night to choose the

Resuscitate

option. The following players are in danger of being killed:

At Risk Townies

AurorusVox
Baby Spice
Feysal
Furcolow
Furpants_Tom
hitogoroshi
kunkstar7
Plum
SpyreX
totallynotmafia
VasudeVa
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr
xvart

Chose your town-reads from that list and protect one, preferably randomly to make it more difficult for the scum to plan their nk. Remember too that the scum have access to the

Greater Ritual

, so don’t worry about choosing a target because “someone else might pick them too.” Stacking Resuscitates can be useful. Regardless of your decision, do NOT announce it in thread before we go to night.

Investigation

is a useful choice. While launder resolves before investigation, murderers and cultbags would love to get away with not wasting an action on laundering. Punish them for it! Note that Nopoint, Feysal, and wicked have claimed being bloody in thread - don't investigate them.

Do not chose

Stalk

or

Murder

. While stalking and murderering can confirm a town, it’s best to do it on a later day when the murderer wincon is virtually impossible to achieve for someone starting out. All plans regarding stalking and murdering while remaining an Investigator should be mentioned in thread.

If we discover a player who murdered and attempt to conceal such from the town, we will assume they are aiming for the murderer win condition and lynch them.

Do not be that player.

This is a good night to use

Commune.

However, make sure to pick someone who SHOULD have less insanities then you. Here is the list of the claimed insanities that will be present at the time of N2 communes:

Insanities

Andrius (1)
Benmage (2)
Seacore (1)
Wickedestjr (1)
Wraith (1)
Also note that grave rob and murder resolve before commune, resulting in additional insanities. With the current plan:
Benmage (4, plus one from grave rob, another from murder)
El Goosuki (2)
hitogoroshi (1)
kunkstar7 (2)
VP Baltar (1)
Wickedestjr (2, plus one from grave rob)

Spoiler: What happens if I get an Insanity?

Insanities happen. Maybe you were killed and resuscitated, maybe you got passed a fetish of yourself. Here are the insanities you are

forbidden

from taking N2:

Unacceptable Insanities

Hallucination
Suicidal
Sadism
Denial
Mutilation
Distraction
Necrophilia
Paranoid

Having any of these insanities will be treated as a Cultist/Murderer claim.

In addition, here are some insanities you are encouraged to take:

Acceptable Insanities

Twitchy
Taboo
Solist
Obsession

Remember, you will be claiming any actions that gave you insanities, so

Twitchy

is a solid first insanity for you to take. Twitchy is only detrimental to those who wish to conceal their insanities – you have nothing to hide.

This list will likely be amended as the days pass. Voice ideas for insanity amendments in thread - but do it BEFORE night falls.

Spoiler: Who's robbing which graves?

The final graverobbing targets are these. It's exactly what VP said; I'd rather not replace ElG with Baby Spice, despite her being the higher wagon on numbers.

ElG. if you don't rob these graves, we're lynching you. Savvy?

Grave Robbers

RC = VP, Kunk
Fate = Benmage, El G
LB = Wicked, El G
MoI = Hito, Kunk

Spoiler: What should be included in my first post of the day?

For your first post, copy and paste this code:

Code: Select all

[area=CD3]
[b]Username:[/b]
[b]Did you Hear Noise?[/b]
[b]Did you Ward? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?[/b]
[b]List all of the insanities you currently have:[/b]
[b]Did you [u]successfully[/u] resuscitate? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Were you murdered?[/b]
[b]Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)[/b]
[b]Twitch?[/b]
[/area]

Which will give you this:

CD3

Username:

Did you Hear Noise?

Did you Ward? If so, who?

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

Were you murdered?

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Twitch?

Fill this out and include it in your first post of the day.

A few notes. The "CD3" means "Claims Day 3", and it is there to make it easier to find these posts using ctrl+f. Your username should be written exactly. A successful use of resuscitate is defined as one that leaves you bloody. If your target is targeted by multiple kill actions and dies, it was still a "successful" use because you blocked a kill. The "twitch?" is there as a friendly reminder for those who took the Twitchy insanity. A reminder on the rules of Twitchy:

Twitchy - If you heard Noise the Night before, you are Bloody, gained an Insanity the Night before, or any combination of these, your first post in the thread for the Day must contain *twitch* or *twitches*.

Do not post *twitch* or *twitches* in your first post if you do not have the twitchy insanity or do not meet the prerequisites.

Yes, you can *twitch* even without the insanity, but all it does is create needless ambiguity about whether you have more insanities than claimed or not. This guide was written so we can lynch people who give us these kinds of dilemmas instead of having to play the "are they cult, murderer, or just trying to be cute?" game.

This was a rush job, if someone wants to quick check for errors that'd be much appreciated.

[hitogoroshi]

I put in ElG for a few specific reasons. One of them is this:

I'd rather El Goosuki, that wagon only died because of the deadline, it was still a more significant wagon than Baby Spice.

More importantly, ElG is suspicious mostly for what they DIDN'T do. Players we're info light on are better ones to lock down. If you find someone is scummy for dropping scumtells, they may continue dropping scumtells. Players you suspect because they're not dropping info have a high chance of not dropping info. The later is more dangerous.

Thirdly - the town obviously has a desire to pressure both ElG and BS. Mechanisms can be gamed by scum. To townies, there's not a big difference between ElG robbing or BS, because they both got significant wagons. To cult - pow! Screwed up your wagon-gaming!

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: Also I copied the list directly from VP 2672, and to be honest I trust his judgment more than pretty much anyone else here.

[hitogoroshi]

CD3

Username:

hitogoroshi

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, one from grave robbing.

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

Yes. Nicodemus was not bloody.

Twitch?

*twitch*

[hitogoroshi]

Let the claims roll in and lynch ElG. I refuse to let this much WIFOM get in the game.

We have two graves. I nominate Trilobite as one of tonight's four robbers.

I'll work on the new reference.

[hitogoroshi]

We should probably also claim whether we are bloody. I'm not, not any more.

That's a good point. While your insanity claims adequately cover whether or not you're bloody (and I like not having a bloody space for that reason), it's true that there's no "Did you Launder?" field, which there should be.

[hitogoroshi]

Yo xvart, remember this?

Do not chose Stalk or Murder. While stalking and murderering can confirm a town, it’s best to do it on a later day when the murderer wincon is virtually impossible to achieve for someone starting out. All plans regarding stalking and murdering while remaining an Investigator should be mentioned in thread.

Any reason you chose to go off on your own and do it?

[hitogoroshi]

Ben, they can do the Greater Ritual without any dust as long as at least 2/3'rds do it. Also, Fate's insanity is probably because he was passed a fetish of himself. Don't know why the cult would waste an action on that, but I'm fairly sure it's the only way he could have gotten it.

Preview edit:

Ben, the implied thing isn't that someone Rez'd Ice, it's that Furpants Rez'd someone else.

Preview edit edit: VP sniped me!

[hitogoroshi]

Ben you're thinking of it Ward style. Rez is the counterclockwise edition of Ward.

Mod: "the player who targeted you will not be notified of the failure", in the rules for Resuscitate, is ambiguous. Would the player be provided false info that they succeeded? Assuming they are told the target died, what exactly aren't they being notified of? Or is it as VP said, that you intended for it to be "and YOU will not be notified of the failure"?

[hitogoroshi]

Wicked, any particular reason you took a banned insanity?

[hitogoroshi]

I have some serious catching up to do.

I chose Suicidal, because I'm not expecting to get lynched before end game or survive that long for that insanity to do any harm.

ddsflksdflksdjfsdf

WE HAVE BANNED INSANITIES FOR A GODDAMN REASON

Wicked, as VP said, you're a severe endgame liability because you're an easier lynch. It bumps LYLO up a day. And scum daytalk so they can all get together and vote at one time. Sadly, with two suicidial people in the town I don't think we can even murder our way out of this one (we also lose a day with two dead townies.) At least Ben made his dumb decision RIGHT AWAY instead of after the reference was written. :/

[hitogoroshi]

I motion to remove the "(note these are both poor n1 choices.)" segment

I removed it in one spot from the reference proper, but yeah, I missed it in the code part. My bad. Will be fixed in tonights edition~

And yeah, I agree an ElG lynch is the way to go, but let's make sure we get every CD3 in first.

Ben, why exactly is Spy cult?

[hitogoroshi]

And? Spy would have been on my rez-list if I had a kit. That argument only really works for someone that has zero chance of being rezzed by a townie. Unless I'm missing something...?

[hitogoroshi]

No, we have quite a few people's CD3's left.

[hitogoroshi]

jeepers creepers lets wait until we hear the rezzers reasons huh?

[hitogoroshi]

In what butterflies acid dream is Spyrex confirmed cult

[hitogoroshi]

Scum could pass a fetish to soulless Fate. Waste of an action but they could hope no one figures it out and everyone gets all riled up/wasting time. Also soulless was still pretty ill-defined N1 iirc. I've said this before, so yes, you are missing something.

and why the HELL would that make Spyrex cult too?

[hitogoroshi]

Where does it say souless people can be passed fetishes?

Violating any of these rules will result in a punishment according to their severity, from a private or public rebuke up to and including a Soul Rip. Players who have their soul ripped from their bodies will spend eternity as a plaything for the gods, while their bodies remain as a shattered shadow of what once was. Their role becomes Soulless, and count as a Neutral Survivor for the purposes of other Win Conditions. They lose the ability to post publicly in the thread, to post in The Sanctum if they were a Cultist, and lose their Night Action.

They may still be targetted [sic] by other players' Night Actions.

During subsequent Days, living players may post Dispatch: Playername at any time, and if a majority of living players do so, the Soulless player immediately becomes Dead. A successful Rob Grave action will reveal the player's alignment just prior to the Soul Rip. Soul Rips may be accompanied by a change in phase, at the discretion of the Moderator.

You're right that Spyrex is scum if Ben is, though. It'd be an absurd gambit for scum-BM to pull on a townie.

[hitogoroshi]

I'm also wishing I went the murderer route, there are so many poor decisions on town's part it's pathetic. The good news is that 3 (2/3 * 7?) scum are bloody thanks to the greater ritual. Or alternatively, whoever has claimed they rezzed Tom is a cultist themselves, was that Ice? I can't remember.

We've already stated that the most likely interpretation is NOT a greater ritual, but that Furpants had rezzed someone else that night. One sentence after you insult the town-at-large, no less. classy.

Depending on what happens with Spyrex here, El G definitely should be the lynch today. Publically declaring they should be murdered is not going to work for a number of reasons. 1) you need to assign a murderer to them, which the cult can just kill. If you don't do this, you'll either have no one stalking or you'll have multiple targets stalking. 2) The cult can just ward El G to prevent the stalk tonight 3) The cult can just rezz El G even if they do let the stalk go through.

This is truth. Though I'd add that I smell scum all over the Spyrex wagon. Look at ElG's 2852:

OK, so SpyreX is confirmed cult, and we're town but we deserve to die more.

Choices, choices.

-DGB

From woe is me hopeless bleak despair to THAT little gift-wrapped pile of scummy. If ElG flips cult, I think there's pretty strong odds that Spyrex is town.

[hitogoroshi]

oh man I hate that post so very much.

Percy forgot to tell me, so I had to remind him and wait for him to respond with the result. Andrius isn't bloody.

sounds awfully suspect. I could very easily see you mentioning such in your first post (waiting on results from Percy or something like that) or even not posting at all until the results come in (that's what I'd do.) I simply can't imagine posting "yes" without an explanation as to why you have no result.

Wicked also had a insanity infraction if what he says is truth.

Why?

You gained an insanity so you needed to twitch. [kindatinfoil]Unless you never gained that insanity because your cultbuddy ElG got the dust and you didn't graverob at all. That explains your sloppy pick of suicidal; you didn't pick an insanity at night but just rattled one off in the claim post[/kindatinfoil]

Just ftr, I copied the questions from Feysal's post.

Why? If you look at the claim posts, almost everyone had the "(these are poor n1 choices)" because they were copying either directly from the reference or from the player above them. This sounds an awful lot like you just looked backwards for someone else who didn't have the "if so, who and what result?".

If cult decide to never kill me, I'll be a confirmed townie that survives to the end.

You're not a confirmed townie.Scum could have ritualed and rezzed one of their own. Costly and unlikely, sure. But you're getting awfully aggressive with this confirmed status and it's starting to feel to me like the bravado of a scum who "knows" he's surviving to the end.

Also, you're missing the point on suicidal. If you really are a townie, you make LYLO happen a day earlier because the scum can daytalk gang-up and all vote you at once.

Who still needs to claim if they rezzed SpyreX or not? I'm inclined to believe that Benmage actually tried to kill SpyreX and I wouldn't be very surprised if SpyreX was cult

And it ends with the Spyrex wagon I am hating more and more. Why wouldn't you be very surprised if Spyrex was cult?

[hitogoroshi]

Err, yeah, forgot the cultists can't craft fetishes of each other.

There are actually two scenarios where Wicked could be scum:

1.) If wicked heard noise and it wasn't claimed in thread, scum KNOW it's a stalk. So it's not as unlikely as you're billing it to be. In that case we still have one murderer running around. If wicked is scum, at least one of feysal/nopoint is scum with him (otherwise they wouldn't have withheld ritual kill.)

2.) Wicked, feysal, and nopoint could all be incredibly ballsy cult together. This is super-unlikely but not impossible. Since one scum needed to chain to wicked anyway, another could join in and try to win off of the big lie principle.

[hitogoroshi]

I thought it was established that I was nearly confirmed town. Sorry. I also don't see how I am being so aggressive with that stance. How often do I say I'm confirmed town for no good reason or to defend myself? Not at all I don't think. I think you are seriously overexaggerating.

Regarding me almost dying, I think that means I'm confirmed not-cult unless somebody else claims to have been protected from a kill.

From what I understand, we only need two grave robbers to rob four graves tonight to confirm that cult don't acquire any corpse dust as long as we think Furcolow and I are confirmed town (neither of us are 100% confirmed, but we are both pretty close to confirmed town).

The two people rezzing me is noteworthy. Nopoint being the first person to claim the rez before I even claimed that I had been rezzed means he is probably another confirmed town (he might be a good grave robber too and possibly a better choice than Furcolow. nopoint, what do you think of grave robbing?). Feysal claiming to have rezzed me could be him covering up for his blood if he is a cultist or murderer. There's nothing to confirm that, but I'm keeping an eye on him.

About a week ago I realized something which I have kept forgetting to mention. Since if a murderer was trying to murder me they would've done it last night and because the cult wasted their fetish of me in their attempt to kill me, this means that even though I'm confirmed town, it is almost impossible for me to die tonight. People with rez kits need to keep this in mind tonight. However, it would be a good idea for people to ward me to prevent me from dying the night after as well.

I don't know if you noticed, but I'm nearly confirmed town.

Still behind. I skimmed the thread and noticed Seacore's grave rob plan. I still think Furcolow should grave rob. The whole point is to have us do it, because we're both nearly confirmed town. Nobody else is confirmed town.

If cult decide to never kill me, I'll be a confirmed townie that survives to the end.

[hitogoroshi]

Furc, please stop with the VP hate. VP's been doing a shitload to get the town together. If he's scum, he's playing the long game, "be so helpful no one believes I'm scum", and that's looking increasingly less likely.

Xvart. Let's assume you kill Furcolow tonight. What do you think he's flipping, and how many insanities do you think he will have?

[hitogoroshi]

And for that matter:

Furcolow, do you think Xvart is more likely cultist or investigator? Would appreciate your thoughts on the %chance of each.

[hitogoroshi]

He'll probably flip Investigator and I'm guessing his insanity count is what he says it is.

oh okay, so the worst possible motivation

You don't even think he's going murderer? You seriously just wanted to kill him because he annoys you. I'm gonna have to echo VP (WHAT ELSE IS NEW) and say this seems like a deliberately bad reason to "stalk" and back off. At the same time I don't want you to TEST this stupid claim, because investigators killing investigators is silly. Let me mull on the right response to this.

In the meantime, we have all but one of the CD3's, so:

Vote: El Goosuki

We're waiting on Spyrex until tomorrow at least. His wagon smells so counter-wagon it hurts. Scum would have known Spy was stalked (every other noise is claimed in-thread or cult I believe) and ElG's 'cower' could have been a deliberate plan, which means scum would have anticipated needing a counter-wagon today. Now if ElG flips TOWN then full steam ahead on Spywagon2010 (unless Nico claims the rez obviously.)

[hitogoroshi]

The more I think about it, the more I am believing this is a cute cult trick to get out of having performed a greater ritual

If you think Xvart is cult and not murderer, we could have you bet your life on it. I'd rather avoid investigators murdering investigators, but if you honestly think he's cult we could do that.

[hitogoroshi]

We're not playing the "too scummy to be scum" game. No, no, no.

Here is how the game works. If we don't lynch ElG today, ElG's not getting lynched. That's just how it happens. There will always be new scumtells and new cases and ElG will just sit in the back continuing to do fuck all. That is the point of the WIFOM game, "surely cult wouldn't do something SO worthless?" - because some people buy in to it. If the gambit fails, scum only lose ElG which isn't exactly a terrible loss, but if they win, they WIN. I'm not playing. I don't leave WIFOM daggers pointed at my back.

Also, seriously:

El Goosuki accepts its own lynch like a man and is willing to help along. Our insanity being suicidal should help things along.

VOTE: El Goosuki

and just three posts later:

OK, so SpyreX is confirmed cult, and we're town but we deserve to die more.

Choices, choices.

-DGB

We are not letting

that

getting away unlynched.

I'm especially unhappy with multiple people calling Spy "confirmed cult" or the ilk before all the CD3's rolled in - strikes me as scum who were just

so eager

to put their plan into motion. Costs a rez kit, sure, but gets a townie lynched and gets ElG pusedoconfirmed on the big lie/sunk costs trick.

[hitogoroshi]

Shit, I had forgotten about Furpants entirely!

But regardless, my main point of contention with Ben (besides my belief Spy is not "confirmed cult", for reasons besides the possible furpants rez) is this:

Lol no. Noone. AGAIN. NO ONE. Is saying not to kill El G today and therefore never kill him. No ONE is saying that. That is some absurd fabrication you have created. Everyone is saying they want him gone.

Obviously, no one is SAYING never kill ElG. But that's what happens. Someone will scumslip, or we'll have a new lead, and ElG can sit passively while we chase other people. That's why I'm so tunneled on an ElG lynch. It we let ElG get away with this, we let ElG get away with anything. If I could get a guaranteed murder on ElG, I'd do it myself and vote elsewhere. But a single ward would block me, so I'm mongering for a lynch.

Or, to think of it another way - I want to lynch ElG for the WIFOM and lack of information, as opposed to a normal lynch off of specific scumtells and voting patterns and all that. Lynching for failure to participate is best done early.

[hitogoroshi]

same way Spy was confirmed scum with something like half the cd3's in

[hitogoroshi]

L-2.

We need to get a couple of things straight before hammahtime. Have to pick graverobbers, and I need to update the reference. I'm a bit strapped for time, so I'd appreciate the danger/no danger lists from someone.

Also, Furc, curious as to your thoughts on this:

If you think Xvart is cult and not murderer, we could have you bet your life on it. I'd rather avoid investigators murdering investigators, but if you honestly think he's cult we could do that.

[hitogoroshi]

L-2.

We need to get a couple of things straight before hammahtime. Have to pick graverobbers, and I need to update the reference. I'm a bit strapped for time, so I'd appreciate the danger/no danger lists from someone.

Also, Furc, curious as to your thoughts on this:

If you think Xvart is cult and not murderer, we could have you bet your life on it. I'd rather avoid investigators murdering investigators, but if you honestly think he's cult we could do that.

i feel like if he's an investigator he shouldn't carry through with it, and if he's mafia he can't because he will be busy performing cultic rituals. I feel sacrificing a confirmed townie for another confirmed townie (if he was even successful in killing me) isn't that advantageous to the town.

Right, I completely agree, it's not worth it if he's town. What I'm saying is,

if you think he's cult

, we could dare him to go through with it. If he fails to murder you, we lynch him. Obviously it sucks if he's investigator. I'm just bringing this up because if you think xvart is cult we could put it to the test right here and now. (We would want to you rez in that case, so the murder would be guaranteed to work if xvart really sent it in.) It's your call, just want to make sure you're aware of the option.

[hitogoroshi]

I Thought you were good, Hitogoroshi

How the fuck can you take someones life for WIFOM?
Cult, you would know he's town and CAN do it
Cult, if he's cult he could still claim that someone rezzed ... or one of your cult could rez ME. when that person or you or xvart flipped cult it could even implicate me to idiots
town, if he's cult, this is the only good scenario
town, and he's town, ok we just lost a townie

what's the percentage of sucking on that? what is the percentage of you being town and him being cult? because you know i'm town. you'd also have to eliminate any opportunity that included ME being cult, so take out a fourth of those options... and since we've lost 4 investigators, it is more likely people are cult now... sup

You have a rez kit, you can make yourself un-rezzable tonight to stop cult shenanigans. I think there's a good chance xvart is cult and was curious to see if you agreed. If you're going to be pursuing an xvart-cult case tomorrow, it'd be better to force the issue tonight because we get free cult if we're right and, while you die if we're wrong, it also means we spend the day doing something besides mislynching xvart. So the deal is overwhelmingly in your favor IF xvart is your top cult suspect, because you're either right (in which case there's no risk in forcing him to follow through with the murder, and tomorrow is a nice short cult lynch) or you're wrong (in which case we don't waste a day on a mislynch of xvart). It's a bad deal IF you think there's a good chance xvart ISN'T cult, and intend to pursue other suspects. Savvy?

[hitogoroshi]

Here's a deal:
If El Goosuki flips some insanity count other than what they claim I'll go through with my kill.
If Furculow does not start behaving in a more town like manner I'll use my judgment and go through with the kill or not.

So, if someone out there with a rez kit wants to spare Furcolow then he/she might want to consider it, just in case.

THAT'S NOT HOW THIS FUCKING WORKS

You are NOT murdering Furcolow so you DON'T get to misdirect our rez kits and waste our actions.

Now, there's a chance that Furcolow will want to test your claim. In which case, you ARE murdering Furcolow, and can't claim "whoops cold feet" come tomorrow.

Either way, the one thing that DOESN'T come in to play here at all is your goddamn

judgment

. The only judgment call here is whether Furc is comfortable gambling his life against the odds you're scum (a deal I'd accept without hesitation after your latest post, but sadly you didn't stalk me.) Amibguity about night actions is EXACTLY what scum want the town to be full of, and if you're townie you're

still helping the goddamn scum with talk of "judgment" and "rez just in case".

Ben: We've already been over that song and dance. Obviously the "won't be notified" is to stop rez-confirming when the target wasn't attacked. Percy wouldn't send out a "you succeeded!" pm and then put a corpse in thread.

[hitogoroshi]

If xvart and i are both town, they can choose whether or not they want to rez me to make 2 kills for the price of one potentially.

Dude, if you rez, no rez attempts on you will work. So you'll be "murdered" even if cult targets you with ritual and five rez kits.

The only relevant scenarios are:

"Xvart kills me, we lose a confirmed town" (gain an confirmed town and a lynch)

and

"Xvart is copying benmage, and is cult, and is trying to be "confirmed"" (free cult lynch)

[hitogoroshi]

1) Clear up xvart's N3 action. Personally, I vote that if El G flips with excess insanities, he should go through with it.

No conditionals. For it to work Furc has to rez. So the ball is ultimately in his court. Furc, we're lynching ElG today. If you think xvart is cult, rez and call his bluff. I really think xvart is cult, so I really hope you do this >_<

2) Organise the grave rob

After mulling on it, I agree that none of our communers should be robbing graves. So VP shouldn't be doing it. I think spy should double up, and then trilobite/someone else for the other rob.

3) Post a Night action post for people to not ignore. Wicked, I'm looking in your direction.

Working on it right now.

If El G isn't bloody....then he didn't participate in the ritual, and this cower isnt a fakeclaim but this lynch is a huge policy lynch/mislynch.

What? Scum only need one person a day to do the ritual. Even a Greater Ritual doesn't take

everyone

.

[hitogoroshi]

So what was the purpose of cult claiming they performed "cower" last night again?

because

that's so stupid, no way cult would do that

. ElG could even triple-fetish to get the requisite insanities. And, as I've said before, if we didn't lynch ElG today ElG would be much harder if not impossible to lynch in the future due to various psychological hangups (overton window, sunk costs, big lie, etc.). It's a totally sensible gambit with your scummiest member to turn the scuminess up to absurd levels, since the worst that can happen is they get lynched (good chance of happening anyway) and the best that can happen is literally getting away with murder.

[hitogoroshi]

hito - The point is, at this juncture, you also don't want this thing to hang over the rest of the game as a smoke screen for the scum by continuously leaving this hanging over me if I do not kill. I offered a conditional way to go through with the kill, and if I am told do not kill then I don't want to deal with this the rest of the game. It may direct the rezzers, but I'm not convinced that some Investigator rezzers wouldn't have better targets to protect and wouldn't mind seeing a dead Furculow tomorrow. So leave it up to them.

Let me ask you this: if we had flipped one Cult already would you approve of killing him? Two? Never? You really want someone who early hammers when told not to and thinks short days are better in endgame?

Let me be crystal clear.

I do not believe it is a good idea to kill townies. He early hammers? Boo fuckin' hoo. The reason I want you to go through with the kill - the only reason - is because I am strongly convinced you are completely full of shit. You are delegating the responsibility to potential rezzers, which OH SO FORTUNATELY will explain tomorrow when you have another insanity and are bloody with a living Furcolow. Not only that, but your cultbuddies can wait and see if a townie rezzed Furc, and only have to claim a rez on him if no townies do. At this point, all I can do is hope with every fiber of my being that Furcolow agrees to rez tonight so we can have you "murder" and put the question to bed.

We're going with caskets of wine and tall tale to lynch El G....which magically was instantly accepted by many.

Over SpyreX obv cult....Oh wait, the dead guy must've saved him....omfg.

You want to talk about magic, how about ElG's (and anothers!) precognizance halfway through the CD3's that Spy would have no claimed rezzer and be "confirmed cult"?

And Seacore has it right, we absolutely need to hold night actions accountable.

[hitogoroshi]

sadly I am ubertired so shiny new reference will have to wait until tomorrow

posting guide to town while tired = factual errors = bad news bears

[hitogoroshi]

Real quick because I NEED TO MAKE SURE I AM RIGHT:

My post above regarding rez. Correct yes/no?

Yes.

If Iecerint is telling the truth about rezzing and not being bloody, we can be be 100% certain Furpants_Tom used Resuscitate last night.

I am more suspicious of hito and Seacore after reading the last few pages. Villifying Furco is senseless and cannot serve any purpose other than to set up a despair-based mislynch down the line.

the fuck are you talking about? I've been yelling at xvart, not Furc. The only reason I want xvart to go through is because I think he's lying to us. Sadly, it looks like we're tabling that plan. :/ Though I suppose the thread has shown that the idea "HERP DERPS LETS KILL A TOWNIE BECAUSE HE IS UNPREDICTABLE" is something a lot of people think is a good idea for some godawful reason.

You do realize that the murderer WC is 3 successful murders...I have 0. I already said I am laundering tonight and desire to be investigated.

Making sure we're clear - psychopathy happens after two murders, WHETHER OR NOT THEY SUCCEED. Just making sure you don't stalk anyone else. I know the murderer WC is successes, and you're not going to be able to win on it, but I just want to make sure you don't derp up and grab pyschopathy, since in my view you're pretty close to confirmed (unless Spyrex and you are cult-buddies in cahoots, which would make your subsequent push pretty odd.)

A good and wise man.

Although, PERSONALLY, if one of the wonder twins had to go first I'd go Ben but.

yo spy what happened to you last night

New reference inbound, stay tuned...

[hitogoroshi]

Welcome to the Investigator’s Reference, a guide to help you make the right decisions and get your information out in a way that’s easily readable for your fellow investigators. Because there are actions that would benefit cultists and murderers if they could get away with them,

ignorance of the law is no excuse

, so make sure you read it thoroughly! In particular,

pay special attention to the banned insanity list!

Spoiler: What action should I take tonight?

This is a terrible night to take

Cower

or

Launder

. Because you’re not bloody, both of these will give you an insanity with no benefit. Remember, you must claim every action that gives you an insanity, so if you neglect to send in a night action and end up cowering, you must claim it in your first post or you will be lynched!

This is a mediocre night to

Search

for equipment. It's better to use equipment rather than search for it, especially because rez kits might get lost by you turning bloody if you sit on them too long.

This is a mediocre night to

Ward

someone. There have been many chances for cult to craft fetishes, and the list of players who we know don't have fetishes crafted of them is very short:

Those Without Fetishes

Benmage
Iecerint

Do not take the

Rob Grave

option. The town will be selecting their graverobber or graverobbers in thread, and interfering will only get you a needless insanity. This is NOT a valid excuse for having a higher-than-expected insanity count, so don’t do it!

This is an excellent night to choose the

Resuscitate

option. The following players are in danger of being killed:

At Risk Townies

Andrius
AurorusVox
Baby Spice
El Goosuki
Feysal
Furcolow
hitorogoshi
kunkstar7
nopointinactingup
Plum
Seacore
SpyreX
totallynotmafia
Triglav
Trilobite
VasudeVa
VP Baltar
Wickedestjr
Wraith
xvart

Chose your town-reads from that list and protect one, preferably randomly to make it more difficult for the scum to plan their nk. Remember too that the scum have access to the

Greater Ritual

, so don’t worry about choosing a target because “someone else might pick them too.” Stacking Resuscitates can be useful. Regardless of your decision, do NOT announce it in thread before we go to night.

Investigation

is a useful choice. While launder resolves before investigation, murderers and cultbags would love to get away with not wasting an action on laundering. Punish them for it!

Do not chose

Stalk

or

Murder

. While stalking and murderering can confirm a town, it’s best to do it on a later day when the murderer wincon is virtually impossible to achieve for someone starting out. All plans regarding stalking and murdering while remaining an Investigator should be mentioned in thread.

If we discover a player who murdered and attempt to conceal such from the town, we will assume they are aiming for the murderer win condition and lynch them.

Don't be like xvart.

This is a good night to use

Commune.

However, make sure to pick someone who SHOULD have less insanities then you. Here is the list of the claimed insanities that will be present at the time of N3 communes:

Insanities

Andrius (2)
Benmage (4)
El Goosuki (1)
hitogoroshi (1)
kunkstar7 (2)
Seacore (2)
SpyreX (4)
Triglav (1)
Trilobite (1)
VP Baltar (2)
Wickedestjr (2)
Wraith (1)
xvart (1)

Spoiler: What happens if I get an Insanity?

Insanities happen. Maybe you were killed and resuscitated, maybe you got passed a fetish of yourself. Here are the insanities you are

forbidden

from taking N3:

Unacceptable Insanities

Hallucination
Suicidal
Sadism
Denial
Mutilation
Distraction
Necrophilia
Paranoid

Having any of these insanities will be treated as a Cultist/Murderer claim.

In addition, here are some insanities you are encouraged to take:

Acceptable Insanities

Twitchy
Taboo
Solist
Obsession

Remember, you will be claiming any actions that gave you insanities, so

Twitchy

is a solid first insanity for you to take. Twitchy is only detrimental to those who wish to conceal their insanities – you have nothing to hide.

This list will likely be amended as the days pass. Voice ideas for insanity amendments in thread - but do it BEFORE night falls.

Spoiler: Who's robbing which graves?

The final graverobbing targets are these.

Grave Robbers

Furpants: Spyrex, Trilobite
El_G: Spyrex, Seacore

Spoiler: What should be included in my first post of the day?

For your first post, copy and paste this code:

Code: Select all

[area=CD4]
[b]Username:[/b]
[b]Did you Hear Noise?[/b]
[b]Did you Ward? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?[/b]
[b]List all of the insanities you currently have:[/b]
[b]Did you [u]successfully[/u] resuscitate? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Were you murdered?[/b]
[b]Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?[/b]
[b]Are you bloody?[/b]
[b]Twitch?[/b]
[/area]

Which will give you this:

CD4

Username:

Did you Hear Noise?

Did you Ward? If so, who?

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

Were you murdered?

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Are you bloody?

Twitch?

Fill this out and include it in your first post of the day.

A few notes. The "CD4" means "Claims Day 4", and it is there to make it easier to find these posts using ctrl+f. Your username should be written exactly. A successful use of resuscitate is defined as one that leaves you bloody. If your target is targeted by multiple kill actions and dies, it was still a "successful" use because you blocked a kill. The "twitch?" is there as a friendly reminder for those who took the Twitchy insanity. A reminder on the rules of Twitchy:

Twitchy - If you heard Noise the Night before, you are Bloody, gained an Insanity the Night before, or any combination of these, your first post in the thread for the Day must contain *twitch* or *twitches*.

Do not post *twitch* or *twitches* in your first post if you do not have the twitchy insanity or do not meet the prerequisites.

Yes, you can *twitch* even without the insanity, but all it does is create needless ambiguity about whether you have more insanities than claimed or not. This guide was written so we can lynch people who give us these kinds of dilemmas instead of having to play the "are they cult, murderer, or just trying to be cute?" game.

[hitogoroshi]

Let me resist the urge to say I told you so. Overton's window is already in action. "I'm totally gonna send in a night action tonight!" For anyone else, this means nothing. But ElG has been so terrible that this is supposed to be a sign of renewed commitment. ElG started off so bad that they can improve from extremely anti-town to merely worthless.

That

is the reason for claiming a n2 cower and picking suicidal.

ElG's new content has been a one-sentence hop back on to a lurker-lynch. That wouldn't be acceptable from anyone. But ElG decided to hit rock-bottom so hard that "I'm gonna vote AND send in actions/take insanities that don't go against the blatantly obvious guide" is better than the status quo. We absolutely cannot - cannot - let cult get away with that.

[hitogoroshi]

i am willing to bet my life El G is town

Why?

[hitogoroshi]

xvart, Furc has already indicated he thinks you're an investigator.

[hitogoroshi]

CD4

Username:

hitogoroshi

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes.

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No.

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Was passed a fetish of myself, chose Solist.

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy, Solist

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No.

Were you murdered?

No.

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Plum was not bloody.

Are you bloody?

No.

Twitch?

*twitch*

Very interesting night. Very keen to hear from Seacore, Spyrex, and xvart.

[hitogoroshi]

Negative communes and negative investigates both still serve as positive information. Negative rez's do not, which is precisely why CD* doesn't have a spot to claim failed rez's.

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, warding the grave makes sense for cultspyXtowng and townspyXcultg. Ugh. I was hoping to get some insight on the Spy question.

With the ward as corroborating evidence, I think it's almost certain that Spyrex and ElG are opposite alignments. That being the case, I don't see why we need to lynch him unless they ward ElG's grave all the way until LYLO. If they do so, they're just taking on even more insanities they have to explain away. Unless I'm missing something...?

[hitogoroshi]

The chance that Spy is scum is certainty greater than the chance he's scum, but there is a non-zero chance he's town and a way we can test it.

"Zero leads" is really the watershed issue. A Spyrex lynch has a better chance of hitting cult than most other people. So he's equivalent to other strong cult reads, but a bit worse of a lynch than them in that we have a chance of learning he's town. Still, it's not worth keeping him around if we're not certain on who we lynch instead. If we have a big block of cultbags, we want to lynch Spy last, but I was forgetting that we don't really have a big block of cultbags. (I was thinking of our big block of morons.) On reflection I don't really have another strong cult read, so:

VOTE: Spyrex

I disagree with people that say we NEED a Spy lynch today, but if you're not voting for Spyrex it should be because you have a sexier wagon for us to hop on.

[hitogoroshi]

Really then, the only way SpyreX couldn't be cult as well is if the cult were trying to frame him, which is a pretty big stretch if they had no idea Spyrex was going to be murdered in the first place which I think was the case (somebody correct me if I'm wrong).

He heard noise. Assuming cult didn't target him that night, they know he was targeted by either stalk or a failed rez. In addition, reading Ben's posts made it fairly clear that Spyrex was a potential murder target. Framing him would be pretty useful if coupled with a ElG too-scummy-to-be-scum WIFOM psuedoclear attempt. This is why I wanted an ElG flip before a Spyrex lynch. That being said, I freely admit this isn't as likely as Spy cult - but it's not out of the question.

[hitogoroshi]

Unvote

.

I want to make sure Spyrex gets his chance to talk.

Also, I can't help but notice this wagon is swelling faster than "I picked suicidal, because

that's how I feel.

" Interested in VP's thoughts specifically on this. It's raising my hackles a bit.

[hitogoroshi]

Once again I am a busy hito, someone else compiling the indanger list would make me a happy smile hito. Reference should be updated sometime soonish.

ben and xvart are both obvious robbers. We should probably have them both double rob just because we've got four goddamn graves tonight. They can each nominate someone culty/murdery to double rob. So it'd be:

ElG: Benmage, Benmage's nom
Furc: Benmage, Xvart's nom
Wicked: Xvart, Benmage's nom
Spyrex: Xvart, xvart's nom

That plan look okay? Pair off badtimes people with confirmed towns people?

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: Forgot to mention my views on the Spy wagon. VP makes a good point that it would be a speedwagon regardless of Spy's alignment. I still have skeevy gut twinges but I also don't have a better lead and I'm not going to derail the Spy wagon just because I'm getting a rumbly in my tumbly. If I had a better case to chase down, maybe, but I don't. Pocketing the vote until the reference is written, but then it'll be back on (unless it'd be hammer, I guess we can save this one for VV.)

STILL BROS SPY :'(

@Ben: That plan guarantees that no cultbags get dust, and lets us lockdown two people we don't like. We DEFINITELY want you and xvart each nomming one person to lockdown. I guess if you want to also nom someone to sub you for one grave that's cool. Pick your best townread without books.

So both xvart and Ben should be doing:

Nominate Scumread to Double-Rob

Nominate Townread to Single-Rob

And the plan would be:

ElG: Benmage, xvart's scumnom
Furc: Benmage's townnom, Benmage's scumnom
Wicked: Xvart, Benmage's scumnom
Spyrex: Xvart's townnom, xvart's scumnom

[hitogoroshi]

don't know why I'd still be classified as someone to "dislike".

You misunderstand. The two people we dislike are your cultreads. You and xvart also being locked down is just what makes this the safest, but if you're comfortable proxying one rob to your townread in return for an action we'll follow your decision.

(though for the record I dislike the

shit

out of xvart for killing my bro in a trade-off I still maintain was not at all worth it)

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: Forgot to engage in shenanigans:

VOTE: Benmage

UNVOTE: Benmage

VOTE: hitogoroshi

UNVOTE: hitogoroshi

VOTE: Benmage

UNVOTE: Benmage

VOTE: hitogoroshi

UNVOTE: hitogoroshi

[hitogoroshi]

God

damn

you are a trooper Percy.

[hitogoroshi]

bluuuuuuh

On one hand, I want to join this Andrius wagon with goodtimes pals Trilobite and Seacore. On the other hand, I ISO'd Andrius - while his principle contributions for the last two days were "misunderstanding the murderer win condition" and "misunderstanding solist because of his mysterious conviction not to check his stupid plan with anyone else". On the other hand, while they don't have specifically scum motivations, his actions make no sense - why take obsession if you want to instantly drop it the next day? Why not bring up your plan to take Solist in thread instead of leaving it as a "surprise, I fail reading!" the next day? On the other hand, that ambiguity seems small potatoes compared to the dangerous Spyrex question we'd be sitting on another day. On the other hand, I still really feel like Spyrex is flipping town. On the other hand, my gut alone is a pretty poor defense against a WIFOM dagger in my back...



Benmage, Andrius is your tentative suggestion for proxy townrob. Why? If I'm missing something townie in the past Andrius has done it'll make me sit a lot easier on the Spy wagon.

[hitogoroshi]

So have I been removed from the Grave Rob plan completely so I don't need to nominate someone to scum rob with me?

I don't know where you got this idea. You need to nominate a townie to single-rob and scum to double-rob.

[hitogoroshi]

So, to be clear, we're good with


ELG: Benmage, AV
Furc: VPB, AV
Wicked: Seacore, Plum
SpyreX: Xvart, Plum

as the robs?

Also:

vote: Spyrex

I forgot I had unvoted when the wagon hyper-swelled. My gut still hates the wagon, but even Spy understands leaving him around is too much of a risk to drag around. I'm super-happy his wagon wasn't a quickwagon, because this day was MUCH better for wagon analysis than it would have been with a quicklynch. Updated reference should be tomorrow, so if you've got something you've gotta get done today, get on it.

I'm working on my own little theory for stalking. I'll have that soonish, still ironing out the kinks.

[hitogoroshi]

Okay, here is how stalking should go.

We nominate people that are under a fair bit of suspicion to stalk. but, we do not pick single targets. Instead, we vote on a communal "it would be fine if x was murdered" list. This is exceedingly important, because warding a target is super easy but warding a list-full is hard.

In the morning, they claim target and success/failure. On a failure, we judge the odds of a cult fake-claiming the 'stalk'. (NO townies should be warding anyone on the "would be fine if x was murdered" list.) On a success, full speed ahead! A rez kit is MUCH costlier than a ward.

Ben, I'll leave the prototype list in your hands. While the town can add/remove if it's an everyone vs. you situation, I much prefer if the lions share of the list is the confirmed townie's judgment. (and I've already made my thoughts clear re: xvarts "judgment".) Just list the name of everyone who, if you learned they were stalked tomorrow, you'd say "go ahead" and not "x isn't worth losing." (So both cultbags are useless null reads go here, anyone you wouldn't mind seeing dead.)

Ben and xvart, you also have the options of switching your proposed double-robber if you'd prefer the person you chose to be a N4 Stalker instead.

If you want to nominate someone to stalk tonight, post like so:

I nominate Herp Derp to be a n4 Stalker.

It also goes without saying that we take a few days to sort this shit out and don't lynch until the ducks are in a row and I post the new reference.

[hitogoroshi]

Also:

Mod: Would votes contained in

tags still count as normal?

If so I'll just put the vote sanity testing in CD5 and save us all a headache.

[hitogoroshi]

amendment to 3506, because it's a bit unclear

benmage: post initial list of allowable murder TARGETS

town-at-large: nominate potential STALKERS, and suggest amendments to Ben's list if needed

ben and xvart: switch rob targets if you'd rather have them as stalkers. General rule: "Good player, if they're town" = better stalker. "kind of a lump either way" = better double-robber.

Omg hito, you just gave a kid on Christmas Eve the key to the toy factory, I'm gonna have fun sleeping on this.

'Tis the spirit of the season!

[hitogoroshi]

Unless I'm missing something, Seacore, Benmage and I still tested ourselves for voting insanities when we voted ourselves. I don't see anything wrong with picking Benmage/Xvart (two people we should never ever wagon) as the paranoid wondertwins, and just have the first person to post vote everyone?

[hitogoroshi]

But yes, I think we should just head to night now. The graverob is done. Benmage can either post his list or not, at this point it's not a big deal.

What the fuck is this noise? Benmage's list is INSANELY important. Not to mention that townies besides Benmage can forward potential stalkers if they like.

Tonight, we cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. This needs to be very clearly understood by everyone; murder without foresight solves nothing. We need to designate our murderers, and we need to designate our targets that no one will ward. This is the biggest deal.

[hitogoroshi]

Doesn't change the fact that tonight is the night we stalk, so today is the day we plan the stalk. You could be ElG 2.0 and I'd still be pissed if you were hammered before our shit was sorted out.

[hitogoroshi]

However, tying it down TOO HARD (X stalks Y) is just inviting the cult to manipulate all the night actions just rite.

And you know that you silly goose.

That was exactly my problem with "X SHOULD STALK NICO", and the reason I wanted it done this way.

We're picking the murderers, and Ben is whipping up a big old list of targets. Big enough, crucially, that they can't all be warded. (I assume Benmage's possible-scum list will be a little bigger than the actual number of scum :p). Add in the fact that a ward target cannot ward someone else, and suddenly the cultbags have a golly-gash-darned

pickle

on their hands.

[hitogoroshi]

I've done some thought on it. We don't claim who we're stalking tonight, but we claim tomorrow, success or failure. Don't want to get in a huge in-depth discussion as to why because I don't want to let the cult in on my thought process.

Ben, I don't really want town to give up an action for no reason, and one rob alone is free. Mind if I (or some other townread of yours) take over one of your robs so we get one more town action in the mix? I understand that you've elected your townreads to stalk, but they can still rob AND stalk so townies aren't having not-free robs.

As for this list:

kunkstar7
Baby Spice
Feysal
Plum
Triglav
AurorusVox
totallynotmafia
Nicodemus(lurker)

I like it, with two caveats:

1. You mentioned it was an ordered list. My advice for the stalkers is - disregard the 'order'. I want cult to have NO idea who on that list is getting the stalk treatment. My advice is to remove anyone you're not super-happy about stalking and then roll a die for the rest.

2. I seem to remember Feysal being semi-confirmed from some thread happening? I'd appreciate someone with a sharper memory to confirm/deny this one.

Working on the updated reference, should be in your grubby hands Tuesday night sometime. (I have a Latin final in 14 hours to worry about first.)

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: Also, any chance we could add Andrius to that list? Still skeevy about him taking obsession and immediately trying to get rid of it (if you didn't want to use commune a bunch the fuck would you take obsession for) but that's a better vig than a lynch, I feel.

[hitogoroshi]

Ah yeah. With Wicked's townflip, I think Feysal is a fairly likely townie. Something to look in to in a few days, sure, but not on the same scale as the rest of that list.

Nominate Feysal to be removed from the list of potential stalk targets

.

(you can replace him with Andrius so the number stays the same )

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, I'd like Benmage's final weigh-in on stalkers and targets too (and I think he should add Andrius to the list, but it's ultimately his call).

Otherwise the reference is pretty much good to go! The Bloodline Champions Open Beta just started, so I'm happy the game will be in night while I'm playing that and going home for the holidays

[hitogoroshi]

Welcome to the Investigator’s Reference, a guide to help you make the right decisions and get your information out in a way that’s easily readable for your fellow investigators. Because there are actions that would benefit cultists and murderers if they could get away with them,

ignorance of the law is no excuse

, so make sure you read it thoroughly! In particular,

pay special attention to the banned insanity list, and the listings for Ward and Stalk/Murder!

Spoiler: What action should I take tonight?

This is a terrible night to take

Cower

or

Launder

(unless you're bloody). Both of these will give you an insanity with no benefit. Remember, you must claim every action that gives you an insanity, so if you neglect to send in a night action and end up cowering, you must claim it in your first post or you will be lynched!

This is a mediocre night to

Search

for equipment. It's better to use equipment rather than search for it, especially because rez kits might get lost by you turning bloody if you sit on them too long.

You should probably not ward tonight. Almost every player (Iecerint is an exception) has or could possibly have a fetish of themselves. If you do ward, it

CANNOT

be any player on this list:

Forbidden to Ward

kunkstar7
Baby Spice
Feysal
Plum
Triglav
AurorusVox
totallynotmafia
Nicodemus
Andrius

Warding any of the above players will be treated as a cult claim!

Do not take the

Rob Grave

option. The town will be selecting their graverobber or graverobbers in thread, and interfering will only get you a needless insanity. This is NOT a valid excuse for having a higher-than-expected insanity count, and it will most likely get you lynched, so don’t do it!

This is an excellent night to choose the

Resuscitate

option. Every player (with the exception of Iecerint) is potentially in danger. However, you should not be rezzing anyone on our "do not ward" list, so here are the townies not on that list:

Acceptable Resuscitation Targets

Benmage
hitorogoshi
Iecerint
Seacore
Trilobite
VasudeVa
VP Baltar
Wraith
xvart

Chose your town-reads from that list and protect one, preferably randomly to make it more difficult for the scum to plan their nk. Remember too that the scum have access to the

Greater Ritual

, so don’t worry about choosing a target because “someone else might pick them too.” Stacking Resuscitates can be useful. Regardless of your decision, do NOT announce it in thread before we go to night.

Investigation

is a useful choice. While launder resolves before investigation, murderers and cultbags would love to get away with not wasting an action on laundering. Punish them for it!

Do not chose

Stalk

or

Murder

, UNLESS you are a town approved stalker. The approved stalkers are:

Approved Stalkers

hitorogoshi
VP Baltar
Seacore
Iecerint
Wraith

All of these players

must

stalk, and

must

choose a target from the "forbidden to ward" list.

This is a good night to use

Commune.

However, make sure to pick someone who SHOULD have less insanities then you. Here is the list of the claimed insanities that will be present at the time of N4 communes:

Insanities

Andrius (3)
AurorusVox (2)
Baby Spice (1)
Benmage (6)
hitogoroshi (3)
Iecerint (1)
kunkstar7 (2)
Nicodemus (1)
Plum (2)
Seacore (3)
Triglav (1)
Trilobite (1)
VP Baltar (4)
Wraith (2)
xvart (4)

Spoiler: What happens if I get an Insanity?

Insanities happen. Maybe you were killed and resuscitated, maybe you got passed a fetish of yourself. Here are the insanities you are

forbidden

from taking N4:

Unacceptable Insanities

Hallucination (least bad unacceptable insanity - if you have to choose one from this list, pick this one)
Suicidal
Sadism
Denial
Mutilation
Distraction
Necrophilia
Paranoid

Having any of these insanities will be treated as a Cultist/Murderer claim, UNLESS you were forced by number to pick a banned insanity (in which case you must pick Hallucination). This exemption only applies to people who are taking their

fourth or greater

insanity.

In addition, here are some insanities you are encouraged to take:

Encouraged Insanities

Twitchy
Taboo
Solist
Obsession

Remember, you will be claiming any actions that gave you insanities, so

Twitchy

is a solid first insanity for you to take. Twitchy is only detrimental to those who wish to conceal their insanities – you have nothing to hide.

This list will likely be amended as the days pass. Voice ideas for insanity amendments in thread - but do it BEFORE night falls.

Spoiler: Who's robbing which graves?

The final graverobbing targets are these.

Grave Robbers

El G: Benmage, Plum
Furclow: Xvart, Plum
Wickedstjr: VPB, AV
SpyreX: Benmage, AV

Spoiler: What should be included in my first post of the day?

For your first post, copy and paste this code:

Code: Select all

[area=CD5]
[b]Username:[/b]
[b]Did you Hear Noise?[/b]
[b]Did you Ward? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?[/b]
[b]List all of the insanities you currently have:[/b]
[b]Did you [u]successfully[/u] resuscitate? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Were you murdered?[/b]
[b]Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?[/b]
[b]Are you bloody?[/b]
[b]Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?[/b]
[b]Twitch?[/b]
[b]Vote: [Self] [/b] <--- Replace this with your username!
[b]Unvote, Vote: Benmage[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Xvart[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Benmage[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Xvart[/b]
[b]Unvote[/b]

[/area]

Which will give you this:

CD5

Username:

Did you Hear Noise?

Did you Ward? If so, who?

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

Were you murdered?

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Are you bloody?

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?

Twitch?

Vote: [Self]

<--- Replace this with your username!

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

Fill this out and include it in your first post of the day.

A few notes. The "CD5" means "Claims Day 5", and it is there to make it easier to find these posts using ctrl+f. Your username should be written exactly. A successful use of resuscitate is defined as one that leaves you bloody. If your target is targeted by multiple kill actions and dies, it was still a "successful" use because you blocked a kill. The voting is to test for voting insanities - remember to replace [self] with your username as written. The "twitch?" is there as a friendly reminder for those who took the Twitchy insanity. A reminder on the rules of Twitchy:

Twitchy - If you heard Noise the Night before, you are Bloody, gained an Insanity the Night before, or any combination of these, your first post in the thread for the Day must contain *twitch* or *twitches*.

Do not post *twitch* or *twitches* in your first post if you do not have the twitchy insanity or do not meet the prerequisites.

Yes, you can *twitch* even without the insanity, but all it does is create needless ambiguity about whether you have more insanities than claimed or not. This guide was written so we can lynch people who give us these kinds of dilemmas instead of having to play the "are they cult, murderer, or just trying to be cute?" game.

[hitogoroshi]

ah shit, that's right!

Yeah I made it clear how I derived that list so people should be able to figure out the error is in the rez section, not the ward section. My bad brospeh. I had to completely change how the rez list worked and so I forgot to sub you out after making the new list.

[hitogoroshi]

Yeah, I kinda planned on having this insanity talk tomorrow. I want to make it clear once again that, in terms of tonight,

only players taking their fourth or greater insanity are allowed to pick a banned insanity, and they are only allowed to pick Hallucination from that list - all other insanities are banned, as normal.

Don't try to slip into a banned insanity you shouldn't be getting, because we WILL lynch you for it.

Tomorrow we''ll standardize the banned insanities into "Banned until you have X insanities".

Who do we have that's suicidal besides Ben? With dead Wicked and ElG I think it might just be him. Killing Ben isn't worth it, in my view.

[hitogoroshi]

CD5

Username:

hitogoroshi

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes.

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No.

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes: Obsession from stalking.

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy, Solist, Obession.

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No.

Were you murdered?

No.

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

No.

Are you bloody?

No.

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?

Yes, [redacted], [redacted]

Twitch?

*twitch*

Vote: hitogoroshi

<--- Replace this with your username!

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

Why exactly aren't we claiming who we stalked yet, Ben? It seems like the winning move. I'll defer to your judgment for now, but curious as to your thought process. As evidenced by the "on who, and was it successful" in CD5, I was under the impression we'd want to claim our stalks/results without delay.

And yes, you were right on Spy. This is why I give preference to my higher brain and not my gut - I still thought that was a bad lynch to the last, but letting cult get away with unconfirmed rez's is even worse. I'm also EXTREMELY angry that "I picked suicidal, because THAT'S HOW I FEEL" was a townie, but hey, it happens.

BabySpice, where the hell did you wrangle up your username as "Annachie"?

[hitogoroshi]

In fact Benmage. Why are you still alive? You just commited your second infraction on twitchy so why are you still alive?

Oh Lordy Lou this fucking game.

[hitogoroshi]

also I see Benmage's first infraction (CD4) in ISO, but was it ever mentioned in thread? Because if not I'm comfortable lynching Baby Spice on that alone.

[hitogoroshi]

Why would I mention it in the thread if I spotted one? An insanity infraction like that is most likely going to be committed for the second time by someone with something to hide, someone faking it.
A voting insanity gets mentioned because we can force the person to breach it, but mentioning something like *twitch* removes it as a hunting tool.

Vote: Baby Spice

Townie with a list like that would want to immediately call every infraction. If you think Benmage is lying about infractions, then you thought he was lying (by omission) yesterday. Why not bring it up then? Simple - because secretly you want him to commit infractioncide. You don't think he's lying, you know he's being negligent, but you just couldn't help but crow about it before the fact.

Benmage not mentioning his infraction in thread when not asked has a very simple reasoning behind it. What would he say? "BTW, I FUCKED UP. OKAY RESUME GAME." You not mentioning his infraction, on the other hand, is all kinds of conflicting with your behavior now.

PS: Ben, so does this:

Hrmmmm...I was thinking it wise not to claim who stalked who so cult couldn't kill our killers....but murder will resolve before ritual, so they can't kill one of ours first.

mean you're cool with stalkers claiming target/result as normal?

[hitogoroshi]

Sweet. I stalked Baby Spice, and it failed. So I'm super-

duper

happy with this lynch today.

You think the failed stalkers should re-stalk tonight? And if so, same list sans the dead/slated for death? Since this might be your last time in thread it's best to get out all the thoughts you can.

[hitogoroshi]

Six. 3 currently + rob + another stalk + another kill. I could still do it, though.

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: Ah crap forgot to quote what I was responding to and was ninja'd by Seacore.

That was responding to:

Yeah I would say stalk again...hito you should probably be a rob graver tonight too..i think you cann afford the insanities..that'd put you at 5 after the kill riight?

[hitogoroshi]

Hito, why did you wait before anouncing who you stalked? I can see no good reason for it.

Benmages reaction being so predictable, Hito, if I was cult, what cult team in their right mind would ward me? Seriously.

Neither did I, but Benmage said not to and I wanted to hear his reasoning. Because,

since you've apparently forgotten

, he is almost certainly confirmed town.

And oh hey, "cult would never x" WIFOM, we all know how much I love those arguements

[hitogoroshi]

Oh Benmage you beautiful bastard. If only we had thought about having the stalk targets ward last night! That makes so much more sense. Scum can't ward them for WIFOM, so a failed stalk gives us confirmed cult.

We should have our two most trustworthy stalkers (Ben's choice) hit Andrius and Nico, who we will ask to ward other players. Failed stalk = lynch. TNM can hit Ben, and Iece and Seacore scull the list like last night (unless Ben has two more people he'd rather have us hit guaranteed.) Andrius and Nico, if you're townies, the best thing you can do is make sure we don't waste a day on you guys.

I agree with Seacore that we should hold off on going to night until after Christmas. (between Christmas and New Years should probably be okay?) I'll start working on the Investigator's Reference. (If I had known the day would be so cut-and-dried I'd have saved the Christmas Cthulhu picture...hopefully I can find another.)

[hitogoroshi]

Ah, damn, I knew it was too easy...wards are counter-clockwise to Rez, so warding doesn't make you unwardable, a ward just makes YOUR ward fail. So actually scratch that plan. We should probably just cluster-bomb the people as normal.

(Also I'm inclined to say we should just lynch Nico tomorrow and not bother with ze killings.)

[hitogoroshi]

Since there is no guarantee hitogoroshi will be back in time, I'll get working on a new guide.

I'm here, I'm here...just busy with holiday shenanigans. Thanks for taking over the duty. That being said, I like that you can find every reference by ISO-ing me, so I think I'll repost that after I give it a once-over for errors. If I change anything, I'll note it red so there's no confusion.

[hitogoroshi]

Proposed changes to Feysals reference:

Benmage is the double-robber, changing the commune list accordingly.

Also, the big thing I wanted to do (was working on it already) is the definitive list of insanity thresholds. As we get more insane binomial banned/not banned insanities isn't quite so useful.

The number in brackets after the insanity is its

threshold

- you can take it as your X or greater insanity. So threshold 1 means you can take it whenever, threshold 4 means it's acceptable as insanity 4 or greater, etc. An X insanity is

strictly forbidden

and can never, ever be taken. If you have absolutely no insanities available at your threshold, you can continue moving up one threshold until one is available. Double check your work, because moving up a threshold when you did have an available insanity will be punishable by lynch. Remember, no matter what the situation,

the rule that you may never take an X insanity trumps all others.

Taboo - [1]
Hallucination - [4]
Compulsion - [1]
Suicidal - [X]
Distraction - [8]
Paranoid - [9]
Twitchy - [1]
Obsession - [1]
Sadism - [9]
Denial - [8]
Marked - [1]
Mutilation - [7]
Solist - [1]
Necrophilia - [x]

I'd like some feedback on the numbers because I didn't work out any endgame scenarios, so maybe one voting insanity is better than another or whatever.

[hitogoroshi]

That's because he was replaced by Nacho.

[hitogoroshi]

CD6

Username:

hitogoroshi

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Compulsion, from Stalk, and Taboo, from being passed a fetish.

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy, Solist, Taboo, Compulsion, Obession

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

No

Are you bloody? If so, why?

No

Did you Stalk? If so, who, and was it successful?

Yes, on Andrius, it was successful.

Twitch?

*twitch*

Vote: hitogoroshi

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: xvart

Unvote

VP and I are on the same level it seems. I also stalked Andrius because looking back he was one of the people calling out that spy had no rezzer long before we had all the claims. I guess the town can decide which one of us they'd rather see go through with the murder.

I decided to give up on ever investigating again because Lordy Lou I'm getting to be a loony over here.

Also, with BS, Spyrex, and Nico as cult, I think we can finally start re-reading looking for some juicy associative tells.

[hitogoroshi]

I'm busy packing to go back to college. Hopefully I can throw up the new reference before I leave. TNM claim your goddamn stalk target.

[hitogoroshi]

Still have shit for time. Sorry cats and kittens, but reference waits until Sunday from me. Packing/family dinner tonight, and tomorrow I take the drive from Minnesota to Nebraska and hurredly unpack before competing in a League of Legends tourney game.

My rapid fire thoughts:

• I really want Seacore to do the kill.
  
• I would like to test for suicidies after new reference is go and all our ducks are in a row.
  
• We should get some discussion on insanity thresholds. Here for your reference is Feysal's list:
  
  
  Spoiler: Feysals Threshold List

  Twitchy - [1]
  Taboo - [2]
  Compulsion - [2]
  Obsession - [2]
  Solist - [2]
  Hallucination - [4]
  Mutilation - [6]
  Marked - [7]
  Distraction - [8]
  Paranoid - [9]
  Sadism - [10]
  Denial - [10]
  Suicidal - [X]
  Necrophilia - [X]
  
  
  anyone have any proposed changes?
  
  
• I'm totally happy with a TNM lynch. VPB is an excellent 'stalk' target if you want your target to be rezzed by a townie. Greater ritual = you have a bloody townie (a real townie, too, not a scum faking a rez!) saying they rezzed, and VPB dies of a ritual kill. TNM looks confirmed when he isn't. It's a strong play for scum-TNM to make, and a VPB stalk makes very little sense from a townie perspective. That being said, my TNM vote waits until *after* we sniff out the suicidies.

[hitogoroshi]

Nico should be the first one we test for suicidal.

[hitogoroshi]

Hey Triglav, looking at your low insanity count made me think back to your CD*'s. Why have you only communed once?

[hitogoroshi]

(disclaimer, this is me pecking at the game in bits while packing, so maybe not as coherent as usual, but I feel this needs to be said before I go)

I've been liking Trilo most of this game but I've been thinking about it and their recent posts feel slimy to me. So we have VPB, the town read Trilo would jump off a cliff for, and TNM, who allegedly stalked him for some garbage reason. Trilo hasn't said anything about this, except that scum can't "set both up at the same time."

Let us go through my list of problems:

• If VPB is, in your mind, confirmed town or nearly such, why are you okay with TNM killing him? Even if TNM really is town and really will be murdering (doubtful), that's still a shit trade. VP has been the strongest, most consistently helpful player here and trading him to confirm TNM is terribad. TNM stalked off the list and should be eating a reference lynch ANYWAY. (I realize in my rapid-fire-thoughts I forgot to mention that reference enforcement and love of VP are two OTHER reasons I want TNM lynched. Those are obvious, I was most concerned with getting the not-obvious rez idea out. Rest assured I do still want to enforce the claims made in my reference.)
  
  
  
• And SPEAKING of that not-obvious rez idea I put out, hey! Look what happens if TNM is scum and VPB is town! VP dies to ritual and we lose an awesome player, and TNM can claim he murdered. If there's a rezzer, they'll confirm it and we don't know if it was a TNM murder or greater ritual giving the first kill. If there is no rezzer, is TNM lying about murdering or did cult rez to screw with us? We know fuckin NOTHING in either of those scenarios, and so I think it's pretty safe to say we will be in one of those scenarios. It's worth it if and only if you think there's a strong chance VP is scum, but I don't think that, and according to what you've said in thread you don't either. So why? Why is it worth losing VP to learn absolutely nothing?
  
  
  
• You're about to say "because then cult can't screw with Seacore's kill!". Yes they can. The only thing they can't do is ritual kill his target. They still could resuscitate or not. And anyway...
  
  
  
• You're forgetting about the Andrius kill, assuming you're taking the position of "more than one planned murder makes it impossible for cult to screw with them all." And anyway...
  
  
  
• If Seacore DID pull off his murder successfully, well, that's not so huge. He looked pretty townie anyway! It was only YOUR giant case thing that suddenly made Seacore look like the better choice instead of Iece. So you've got one guy you specifically advocated should stalk because he looks scummy, and you've got someone else stalking your strongest town read, and you're leaving it alone because
  

  If both players are town I like the odds of actually getting a solid confirm on at least one.

  ...but you don't think both players are town, do you? That wouldn't make any sense with what you've stated. So why is THAT the scenario you're planning around? Because if one of them is scum this is just a recipe to get VP killed without really answering our questions.

One thing I've deliberately avoided doing is drawing conclusions from all this. Spitballing, I can see quite a few things that'd explain this position - keeping scum-Iece out of the limelight by swapping him with town-Seacore, ensuring townie rezs get drawn off of VP (with the caveat that exactly one rogue townie rez or scum rez would help bolster scum-TNM's claim of murdering), getting a mislynch on town-Plum today, keeping us off of scum-Nico (yeah, there's the Seacore rez, but Nico is still looking awful from where I sit), etc. I don't want to rush a conclusion when I'm already up far later than I should be given the trip ahead of me. But I've seen this and I have to call it.

@VP and Ben: You guys are the only super strong town reads I have left. Am I tinfoiling here? Am I wrong about this slime? I mean I can accept the possibility - I was wrong about Spy. But TNM stalked off-list and we're very delicately dancing around it and I'm seeing all sorts of little bits that don't add up. And if I'm not wrong, what do you think this means? What's the reasoning behind this weird discrepancies?

And for that matter,

@TNM: Why the HELL did you stalk VP? You kind of gave an answer before, but not the kind of answer I was looking for. Let me start you off: "I decided to stalk VP, despite being explicitly forbidden from doing such, because..."

[hitogoroshi]

My five cults:

Nico
Andrius
TNM
two more from Kunk/Plum/Triglav/ - they are GO TEAM LURKER and I'd have to do some ISO-ing to rank my two favorites out of the list.

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: Two more from Kunk/Plum/Triglav/VV

[hitogoroshi]

I'm guessing plum dies hito and sea kill...more to come obv.

Let me know your final verdict on TNM, and who you want robbing, and I can whip up the new reference. I have a snow day tomorrow (and had one today; Nebraska has really low standards for calling snow days.) Ironically, this means LESS free time for me, not more, because with classes I only have ~5 hours of commitment a day whereas on snow days I play board games which run significantly longer. :p But it should only take a half hour or less to get this one updated.

I agree Andy's lack of understanding seemed a little genuine in that exchange. Regardless, it's not enough for me to want to stay my hand from the murder, although it makes me a little less confident I'm hitting scum. My gut also called spy town, so.

[hitogoroshi]

Don't like losing VP, and I disagree with how confirmed Nico is, but following absolute optimal play instead of weighing by my gut was the right move last time with Spy.

Thing is, I think VP is flipping town, AV is looking townier by the second, and I'm no longer 100% on Andrius. If we murder three townies tonight and have four stalks flying in the air tomorrow, we could be killing ourselves

hard

.

Still, I feel there's a good chance TNM is scum, so I'm okay with testing it, I guess. Though I've been wrong on the guess of "oh christ, please, no townie ever would think that's a good idea, right?", we can throw the dice once more.

I'd appreciate it if you posted the "stalk list" you think we should follow, Seacore.

[hitogoroshi]

We have 7 days to deadline. Gimmie a day or 2 max. I've just been busy. I'd like a crack at night actions. I've been tossing with the idea of assigning everyone something and seeing what happens.

Alright, I'll hold off on the reference until you have your say.

I think it's a little risky for us to rush suicidal testing with our pants down. I think what I'll do is put a codified, obvious procedure for testing suicidal in the reference today, but say not to use it until tomorrow when we have more time.

[hitogoroshi]

it just creates a cluster fuck that means we have to let TNM kill VPB.

To be fair, we never "allowed" TNM to stalk VP. It was an off-list stalk. About the only reason I'm not chomping at the bit for a TNM reference lynch is that I think his decisions mark him as scum, not a stupid townie (granted I've been burned by this line of thought re: xvart), and I don't think VP is going to be murdered.

[hitogoroshi]

Well, really what it implies is that Fate has screwed over the relevant townies . . .

FTFY

[hitogoroshi]

BENMAGE. If you do not explain why TNM is better than Plum w/in 24 hours I'm going to sheep someone else. Like Vas.

What exactly are you saying here?

And sure, I'll post the reference soonish. Tonight or tomorrow afternoon, we'll see. Not like we're in a terrible rush here. I'll vote Plum when the new reference. Though just to be safe, I would like Ben's official all-clear on Seacores action plan.

[hitogoroshi]

Right. What I'm curious about is this: Ben has given at least general agreement to Seacore's action plan. Presumably he does, in fact, support a Plum lynch, and was simply slow to update his vote. But instead of saying "Hey Ben, shouldn't you be switching to Plum? Or do you still think we should go for TNM?" you delivered an ultimatum and said that if it fails, you'll "sheep someone else". It feels like you should have said "or I'll vote Plum", and it's also weird that you assumed Ben was immutably for TNM instead of asking for clarification. You're walking on tiptoes and it's a little unnerving. And what the hell is with name-dropping Vas every post?

Also:

I'll vote Plum when the new reference.

I accidentally a word

[hitogoroshi]

He clearly said "ignore for now". The reason it looks incomplete and doesn't have all the information is because he didn't mean to post it.

Ben, still waiting on any finals concern from you. Everyone else, still waiting on any input re: Feysal's threshold list:

Spoiler: Feysals Threshold List

Twitchy - [1]
Taboo - [2]
Compulsion - [2]
Obsession - [2]
Solist - [2]
Hallucination - [4]
Mutilation - [6]
Marked - [7]
Distraction - [8]
Paranoid - [9]
Sadism - [10]
Denial - [10]
Suicidal - [X]
Necrophilia - [X]

[hitogoroshi]

Close, VP. Threshold list allows ties, so it's "this can only be chosen as your # or greater insanity."

[hitogoroshi]

I'll reference and vote plum (hammer?) in a couple of hours. Thanks for getting back to us Ben.

[hitogoroshi]

Welcome to the Investigator’s Reference, a guide to help you make the right decisions and get your information out in a way that’s easily readable for your fellow investigators. Because there are actions that would benefit cultists and murderers if they could get away with them,

ignorance of the law is no excuse

, so make sure you read it thoroughly! In particular,

pay special attention to the insanity threshold list, the listings for Ward and Stalk/Murder, and the brand new "Testing for Suicidial" section!

Spoiler: What action should I take tonight?

This is a terrible night to take

Cower

or

Launder

(unless you're bloody). Both of these will give you an insanity with no benefit. Remember, you must claim every action that gives you an insanity, so if you neglect to send in a night action and end up cowering, you must claim it in your first post or you will be lynched!

This is a mediocre night to

Search

for equipment. It's better to use equipment rather than search for it, especially because rez kits might get lost by you turning bloody if you sit on them too long.

You should probably not ward tonight. (VP is an exception - he

must

ward.) If you do ward, do not chose any of these players:

Forbidden to Ward

Nicodemus
Benmage
Nachomamma8
kunkstar7
Trilobite
xvart

Warding any of the above players will be treated as a cult claim!

Do not take the

Rob Grave

option. The town will be selecting their graverobber or graverobbers in thread, and interfering will only get you a needless insanity. This is NOT a valid excuse for having a higher-than-expected insanity count, and it will most likely get you lynched, so don’t do it!

This is an excellent night to choose the

Resuscitate

option.. However, you should not be rezzing anyone on our "do not ward" list, so here are the townies not on that list:

Acceptable Resuscitation Targets

hitogoroshi
Iecerint
Seacore
Trilobite
VasudeVa
Wraith

Chose your town-reads from that list and protect one, preferably randomly to make it more difficult for the scum to plan their nk. Remember too that the scum have access to the

Greater Ritual

, so don’t worry about choosing a target because “someone else might pick them too.” Stacking Resuscitates can be useful. Regardless of your decision, do NOT announce it in thread before we go to night.

Also,

AV MUST Rez Seacore, and Andrius MUST Rez me.

Investigation

is a useful choice. While launder resolves before investigation, murderers and cultbags would love to get away with not wasting an action on laundering. Punish them for it!

Do not chose

Stalk

or

Murder

, UNLESS you are a town approved stalker or murderer. The approved stalkers are:

Approved Stalkers

Iecerint
Triglav
VasudaVa
Feysal

All of these players

must

stalk, and

must

choose a target from the "forbidden to ward" list.

As for murders, these players

must

murder the players they stalked last night:

Approved Murderers

hitogoroshi
Seacore
totatllynotmafia

This is a good night to use

Commune.

However, make sure to pick someone who SHOULD have less insanities then you. Here is the list of the claimed insanities that will be present at the time of N6 communes:

Insanities

Andrius (4) - Twitchy (Fetish N1), Obsession (Commune N2), Solist (Commune N3), Hallucination (Commune N4)
AurorusVox (4) - Twitchy (Grave Rob N4), Taboo (Grave Rob N4), Solist (Stalk N5), Compulsion (Fetish N5)
Benmage (10) - Suicidal (Stalk N0), Obsession (Stalk N1), Twitchy (Grave Rob N2), Taboo (Murder N2), Solist (Fetish N4), Marked (Grave Rob N4), Mutilation (Grave Rob N4), Compulsion (Grave Rob N5), Necrophilia (Grave Rob N5), ? (Grave Rob N6)
Feysal (3) - Twitchy (Commune N4), Solist (Commune N5), ? (Stalk N6)
hitogoroshi (6) - Twitchy (Grave Rob N2), Solist (Fetish N3), Obsession (Stalk N4), Compulsion (Stalk N5), Taboo (Fetish N5), ? (Murder N6)
Iecerint (3) - Twitchy (Stalk N4), Taboo (Stalk N5), ? (Stalk N6)
kunkstar7 (2) - Twitchy (Grave Rob N2), Solist (Grave Rob N2)
Nachomamma8 (0) - None
Nicodemus (2) - Twitchy (Cower N3), Solist (Fetish N5)
Plum (2) - Twitchy (Grave Rob N4), Solist (Grave Rob N4)
Seacore (7) - Twitchy (Fetish N1), Solist (Grave Rob N3), Obsession (Fetish N4), Taboo (Stalk N4), Hallucination (Stalk N5), Mutilation (Resuscitated N5), ? (Murder N6)
totallynotmafia (2) - Twitchy (Stalk N5), ? (Murder N6)
Triglav (2) - Twitchy (Commune N2), ? (Stalk N6)
Trilobite (2) - Twitchy (Grave Rob N3), Taboo (Commune N4)
VP Baltar (5) - Twitchy (Grave Rob N2), Solist (Commune N2), Obsession (Grave Rob N4), Hallucination (Stalk N4), Compulsion (Stalk N5)
VasudeVa (2) - Twitchy (Fetish N4), ? (Stalk N6)
xvart (6) - Twitchy (Stalk N2), Solist (Fetish N3), Obsession (Murder N3), Suicidal (Grave Rob N4), Compulsion (Stalk N5)

Spoiler: What happens if I get an Insanity?

Insanities happen. Maybe you were killed and resuscitated, maybe you got passed a fetish of yourself. Here is the list of allowable insanity thresholds. Remember, the number is "this must be your Xth or greater insanity to take":

Insanity Thresholds

Twitchy - [1]
Taboo - [2]
Compulsion - [2]
Obsession - [2]
Solist - [2]
Hallucination - [4]
Mutilation - [6]
Marked - [7]
Distraction - [8]
Paranoid - [9]
Sadism - [10]
Denial - [10]
Suicidal - [X]
Necrophilia - [X]

If there are no legal insanities at your threshold, bump up one and check, rinse-repeat. Make sure to check your work, because we WILL lynch someone who takes a threshold-forbidden insanity.

Spoiler: Who's robbing which graves?

The final graverobbing targets are these.

Grave Robbers

Plum: Benmage

Spoiler: What should be included in my first post of the day?

For your first post, copy and paste this code:

Code: Select all

[area=CD7]
[b]Username:[/b]
[b]Did you Hear Noise?[/b]
[b]Did you Ward? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?[/b]
[b]List all of the insanities you currently have:[/b]
[b]Did you [u]successfully[/u] resuscitate? If so, who?[/b]
[b]Were you murdered?[/b]
[b]Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?[/b]
[b]Are you bloody?[/b]
[b]Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?[/b]
[b]Twitch?[/b]
[b]Vote: [Self] [/b] <--- Replace this with your username!
[b]Unvote, Vote: Benmage[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Xvart[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Benmage[/b]
[b]Unvote, Vote: Xvart[/b]
[b]Unvote[/b]

[/area]

Which will give you this:

CD7

Username:

Did you Hear Noise?

Did you Ward? If so, who?

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

Were you murdered?

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

Are you bloody?

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?

Twitch?

Vote: [Self]

<--- Replace this with your username!

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

Fill this out and include it in your first post of the day.

A few notes. The "CD7" means "Claims Day 7", and it is there to make it easier to find these posts using ctrl+f. Your username should be written exactly. A successful use of resuscitate is defined as one that leaves you bloody. If your target is targeted by multiple kill actions and dies, it was still a "successful" use because you blocked a kill. The voting is to test for voting insanities - remember to replace [self] with your username as written. The "twitch?" is there as a friendly reminder for those who took the Twitchy insanity. A reminder on the rules of Twitchy:

Twitchy - If you heard Noise the Night before, you are Bloody, gained an Insanity the Night before, or any combination of these, your first post in the thread for the Day must contain *twitch* or *twitches*.

Do not post *twitch* or *twitches* in your first post if you do not have the twitchy insanity or do not meet the prerequisites.

Yes, you can *twitch* even without the insanity, but all it does is create needless ambiguity about whether you have more insanities than claimed or not. This guide was written so we can lynch people who give us these kinds of dilemmas instead of having to play the "are they cult, murderer, or just trying to be cute?" game.

Spoiler: Testing for Suicidal

When someone is at L-1, generally, they're going down. So there's a strong cult incentive to take suicidal. Tomorrow, we punish them for it.

FIRST, though, wait for night actions to be planned. This delay hurt us last time, so tomorrow we should rush to get actions planned as quickly as possible. Once the all clear for testing has been given, start right away.

To begin a suicidal test, post this:

Begin Suicidal Test: X

Vote for them. Then, post where they are lynch wise, like this:

X is at L-Y

When a Suicidal test is done in this way, all players should immediately bandwagon the person being tested, until they are at L-3. All players must post the lynch threshold just like the first voter did (in big red letters.) When they are at L-3, stop voting.

If you see a player at L-3, post this:

X is at L-3. Voting in one hour.

and vote for them one hour later. If multiple people post that message, only the first to post casts the vote.

When they are at L-2, someone must post this:

X is at L-2. Voting in one hour.

And one hour later, vote for them,

then immediately unvote in the same post.

If multiple people post that message, only the first to post casts the vote. After voting/unvoting, you are then free to begin another suicidal test in the same post.

Here are all of the suicidal messages in a handy code tag for you:

Code: Select all

[b][size=150][color=#BF0000]Begin Suicidal Test: X[/color][/size][/b]
[b][size=150][color=#BF0000]X is at L-Y[/color][/size][/b]
[b][size=150][color=#BF0000]X is at L-3. Voting in one hour.[/color][/size][/b]
[b][size=150][color=#BF0000]X is at L-2. Voting in one hour.[/color][/size][/b]

[hitogoroshi]

I'ma go back on my word and give Nacho another day to get his shit together before I vote Plum. That little bit made me curious.

Also, TNM:

@Hito: you say I'm stupid, but put yourself in my position - you're being forced to stalk and if your stalk fails you will most likely be mislynched tomorrow because benmage will think it's because you're cult and can't stalk. Do you:

a) Stalk someone on the stalk list, knowing that they have a decent chance of being warded by cult and thus you have a decent chance of being lynched tomorrow

or

b) Stalk someone who's not on the stalk list (who you believe may be cult), as you know that the chances of them being warded are much slimmer and thus you have a much greater chance of being confirmed, successful confirmation being the only way you're not going to get lynched due to the ridiculous situation you've been put in?

Me blindly following instructions on who to stalk rather than actually taking into account what scum were likely to do imho would have been stupid.

How exactly were you "put into" a ridiculous situation? You are responsible for your own play. Andrius and AV, if town, understand that they failed to give us enough of a view on their alignment that now they have to die. Being townie is more that getting a town role PM. You are not entitled to a free confirm just because you look so terribly scummy. Don't you wonder why Benmage picked the towniest among us to murder at first? We aren't using murders to try to absolve our worst townies of the responsibility of playing well - we are using murderers to kill scummy people dead. For whatever reason (my memory fails me) you were allowed on to the stalker list. The leap that "Gee, I'm gonna murder someone the town at large DOESN'T think is scum, because that's more likely to cover my ass!" is not at all a merited one.

Ok cool.
/confirm I'm Rezing hito, who will subsequently slit my throat.
Good deal, huh hito?

If you are a townie, take solace in this - even if your net contributions to the town are "doing a bunch of scummy looking things and then get murdered", you're not even in the top three for worst townies this game.

Also, while I'm thinking about it, here's advice for hypothetical town Andrius. (If you're scum you were gambiting and I caught you; fairly self-explanatory.) Your biggest failure was the communing fiasco. You loudly trumpted your plan in thread, but curiously never shared it. That secrecy is what did you in, in the end. Even with an amazing talent for internalizing rulesets (and I think it's safe to say you fall below that mark), it's dangerous to run a plan with no one double-checking it. If you find yourself keeping a secret, ask yourself, "Is it vitally, crucially important that I obscure this from the town?" I think your persona as "The Baker" is giving you the penchant to keep your thoughts close to your chest, and so when they're wrong no one can tell you such.

@Seacore: That list has been fully weaved into the Reference as "X must Y" lines.

[hitogoroshi]

YOU CLEARLY JUST AREN'T WISHING HARD ENOUGH

[hitogoroshi]

Also Plum is only L-3? I'll stop waiting now. Nacho, you better hurry your ass up.

Vote: Plum

@Trilo: Ah bugger, totally missed you being on the stalkee list.

No one resuscitate Trilobite tonight.

[hitogoroshi]

Hmm, Seacore had Nico on his list before but it looks like he removed him later. I guess use your judgment on how confirmed Nico is?

And yeah, guess I counted Plum's votes wrong by one. Sorry. It was a rush count.

[hitogoroshi]

[hitogoroshi]

Hey now. I certainly don't want to denigrate Seacore, but give a brotha some credit. :p (Unless I'm misinterpreting which plan of Seacore's you're talking about.)

[hitogoroshi]

Come to think of it, I wonder if changing wincons after a single successful murder might solve the "murder to confirm" problems with this game. (We had two mod-killed townies, multiple townies cowering, townies killin' townies...town probably shouldn't have won this one, and the factor that let us do us can probably be thought of as an imbalance. >.>)

[hitogoroshi]

I admit I only followed it half-assed after I died, but stalking mechanics got VP (and he probably would have been totally safe without them - I had zero suspicion of him until the unclaimed rez, at which point he was 95% confirmed cult), unclaimed rez got Spyrex basicially entirely, ward got BS, general night action fuckery got Andrius killed before other lurkers, Feysal and Triglav both had night-action components to their cases I'm pretty sure. There wasn't a single culitst who wasn't at least partially implicated by something involving the stalk or murder actions, if memory serves right.

[hitogoroshi]

Oh god that QT. I'm going to use the "printer-friendly" version to read it in 400 post chunks.

[hitogoroshi]

Best Town decision of the game IMO? xvart murdering Furc. It cleared up a mislynch in the offing and confirmed him as non-scum.

I disagree with this. I don't think furcolow would have been mislynched (he certainly wouldn't have been until I was dead, at any rate). The one-shot vig is, in my mind, for killing scum, with the confirming as a bonus. No offense, xvart, but Furcolow was a terrible, terrible shot.

[hitogoroshi]

paging through the QT

Yo Spyrex, you're my boy and all, but stop bringing up this murderer plan thing. It's bad for us in a lot of ways.

I'm holding onto a shitstorm making it fall apart (because, I still think that would have been the right thing to do)

SUP SPY

[hitogoroshi]

oh by the way, Ben, you owe Fate an apology

---FATE---SOUL RIPPED DAY 1---FLIPPED INVESTIGATOR NIGHT 2
Night 0 - Search: Occult Books - Heard Noise

[hitogoroshi]

So, I saw Percy tonight.

As I told you longe ago, do not calle up That which you can not put downe; either from dead Saltes or out of ye Spheres beyond. Have ye Wordes for laying at all times readie, and stopp not to be sure when there is any Doubte of

Whom

ye have.