NY 118 - BBM's Large Normal Mafia (Game!)


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Post Post #2450 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:37 am

Post by flinter »

evilpacman18 wrote:Can you do that with math? Just outline the scenario you're imagining where a no lynch now helps town win.

The rest of this post assumes there's 2 mafia.

Luckiest scenario: with 1 scum left after DH dies, they take each other out.
Town can't win without a certain amount of luck. If they don't take each other out then either the remaining mafia player will have to eliminate the SK while the SK eliminates a town member or the SK eliminates the mafia player while the mafia player eliminates a town member. Frankly, one of those three scenarios happening is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more likely than both of them taking out town players. So I don't see where your no lynch would help because it would leave us with 2 scum, 1 SK, and 3 town at the end of the day and then either

2 scum, 2 town,

1 scum, 1 SK, 2 town,

or 1 scum, 3 town after the night. If that remaining scum isn't DH, there's a big chance town could mislynch for the lose.
The problem I have with explaining is that "luck" implies that scum make a mistake. I'd rather keep information to a minimum for that reason. If the SK can't be killed, and we lynch DH, we either end up with 1-1-1 lost, as the SK can't be killed, or if the SK makes the mistake of killing the mafia (as explained before), in a simple lylo with the SK. The SK isn't stupid, so he'll kill a vanilla as most of the reads are already in the open.

If you try to do the maths for the No-lynch scenario, you'll see that randomly the town wins more often, but it has also the advantage that the SK has to shoot for antitown players (he loses if the scum are still alive tomorrow)
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Post Post #2451 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:37 am

Post by EtherDent »

evilpacman18 wrote:uh wait I'm confused. Who's Yosarian?
Sorry, wrong account.

And, yeah, we're a hydra of Ether and Yosarian2. It says so right in our sig.
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Post Post #2452 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:38 am

Post by evilpacman18 »

Antihero wrote:@EPM: Etherdent is a yos/ether hydra.
now define hydra.
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Post Post #2453 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:39 am

Post by Wraith »

@flinter: I did the math. Based on YOUR assumptions, scum will win most of the time if we No Lynch. Are you saying you no longer thinkg there are two scum left?

@pacman: Hydra is when two players create a joint account where they both know the passwor and play together.
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Post Post #2454 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:43 am

Post by flinter »

That's almost every possibility. If your assumptions are correct, town has very very little hope of winning no matter what. If my assumptions are correct, town has high chance of winning no matter what. No Lynch is simply the worst possible option, and town would only win on sheer dumb luck.
Lynching with my assumptions is walking into a knife. We'd lose.
No-lyncing with your assumptions is giving up the game, We'd lose too.

Are your assumptions more likely then mine? Do you seriously believe that on 24 players, only 4 of them were mafia? That is a small group, seen that they didn't have terrific power. I doubt it, Wraith.

EDIT: Wraith, you assume that the SK isn't bulletproof. Then we should lynch, I know that. I no-lynch because I think the SK is bulletproof (which means kingmaker situations can't be won by town, and crosskills are seriously limited). In a 24 player game, with a 5 player mafia, a BP SK is quite a normal role.
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Post Post #2455 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:44 am

Post by evilpacman18 »

Since we're lynching DH today, we can ignore all the options that aren't lynch scum. Thanks for that post Wraith, that's what I was looking for.
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Post Post #2456 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:45 am

Post by evilpacman18 »

flinter: what reason do you have to believe the SK is bulletproof? There's no evidence of that whatsoever since every night has had two kills.
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Post Post #2457 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:53 am

Post by flinter »

evilpacman18 wrote:flinter: what reason do you have to believe the SK is bulletproof? There's no evidence of that whatsoever since every night has had two kills.
it is an existing role. And for the SK it is 1 against 23. I expect him to have some advantages. Further, from the mod point of view, a BP SK neatly solves possible kingmaker scenario's.

But alright, I can't convince you.
vote Demon
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Post Post #2458 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:55 am

Post by Wraith »

I don't think the SK is bulletproof, this is a normal.
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Post Post #2459 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:06 am

Post by evilpacman18 »

aaaaaaand... back to L-1.
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Post Post #2460 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:59 am

Post by evilpacman18 »

Alright, somebody hammer. It's the best we can do. We all have our opinions and we all know our wincons and have a much better idea of what we'll need to do to achieve theme. For me and my town mates, the best thing to do is figure out what happens tonight and work off it. We already know we'll need some luck. We've already put our opinions out. Not much more to do I don't think. Ether, wanna do the honors?
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Post Post #2461 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:03 am

Post by EtherDent »

I was talking with Ether briefly just now, while she was at school. I was thinking about just hammering, but she wanted us to wait until she got home and had a chance to look at the thread first.

We also both agreed that antihero seems like a better lynch then DH, but if there's 2 mafia members, then DH is probably scum as well. Wrath, Evilpac, I think the two of you are probably the other two townies here; do you have any opinions on antihero?

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Post Post #2462 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:04 am

Post by EtherDent »

Also, if Antihero posts and dosn't hammer, then that pretty much confirms him as not SK, or at least confirms him as not bulletproof SK, and I think that's useful info to know. Antihero, are you around?
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Post Post #2463 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:11 am

Post by Antihero »

VOTE: DemonHybrid

Alright, while I'm dropping the hammer, I might as well drop the act.

Yes, I'm the SK. (And Wraith is right, I ambulletproof; so if you try to kill me, scum, I promise you
will
fail)

If DH doesn't flip scum, I will a) be surprised and b) kill EtherDent tonight.
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Post Post #2464 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:23 am

Post by flinter »

lol, you have to kill EtherDent anyway anti. Otherwise we'll lynch you tomorrow. You have to end it tonight now you have claimed :P
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Post Post #2465 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:28 am

Post by Antihero »

Well tomorrow, the town is choosing who gets to win: me or mafia (assuming scum don't endgame us all first).

Actually, my gut isn't really liking Wraith either right now (or EPM for that matter, but JDodge makes up for that I think).

FTR, all my NKs (besides Gorrad) have been attempts at crosskills. :( Sorry about Kise, but it
did
out dana as scum. I just NKed Gorrad because I was trying to be nice to flameaxe and save him the trouble of finding a replacement.
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Post Post #2466 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:30 am

Post by DemonHybrid »

Bah..
This account is no longer being used.

You want this one.
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Post Post #2467 (ISO) » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:33 am

Post by Flameaxe »

Votecount 7.4

DemonHybrid [4] (Wraith, Flinter, Evilpacman, Antihero)

Flinter [1] (Demonhybrid)

Not Voting [1] (EtherDent)

With 6 alive, it will take 4 votes to lynch a player, and 3 votes to no lynch.

DemonHybrid - Mafia Goon - Lynched Day Seven
. Welcome to night seven. Get those actions in, and maybe we'll have another quick night. :D
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Post Post #2468 (ISO) » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:05 am

Post by Flameaxe »

Day Eight!

Evilpacman - Mafia Godfather - Killed Night Seven
.

That leaves four alive, so 3 votes are needed to lynch, and 2 votes are needed to no lynch.
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Post Post #2469 (ISO) » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:06 am

Post by Antihero »

Wow.

I'm a complete failure.

GG town. VOTE: Antihero
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Post Post #2470 (ISO) » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:19 am

Post by EtherDent »

Ahahahahahahahahaha.

vote: Antihero


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Post Post #2471 (ISO) » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:19 am

Post by EtherDent »

Wow, that's awesome. if you had killed a townie, antihero, I would have assumed you were the last scum and lynched you today and lost. man, we lucked out.

Vote:Antihero


Really well played, evilpacman.
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Post Post #2472 (ISO) » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:20 am

Post by EtherDent »

Whopps, just simulposted with myself, hehe.
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Post Post #2473 (ISO) » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:33 am

Post by flinter »

Antihero wrote:Wow.

I'm a complete failure.

GG town. VOTE: Antihero
:( You aren't a complete failure. It was mostly PoE that we could find you... and EvilPacman did play a good game. But thank you for not killing me, I do appreciate it.

sorry, because I didn't think town deserved the win anymore
vote Antihero
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Post Post #2474 (ISO) » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:36 am

Post by flinter »

EtherDent wrote:Wow, that's awesome. if you had killed a townie, antihero, I would have assumed you were the last scum and lynched you today and lost. man, we lucked out.

Vote:Antihero


Really well played, evilpacman.
Thank you for replacing in. Is there a particular reward for jumping into a 99 page game, or could I maybe help you in another way?
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