Mars 2/Mini 243 - We Didn't Start the Fire, Game Over

[Tamuz]

not shabby

vote: BJ

Because I don't want him dead, he is a laugh and a half

[Tamuz]

Yeah, when you vote for someone, others are less likely to vote for them next for fear of being accused of jumping onto bandwagons so soon

Reverse psychology

[Tamuz]

unvote: BJ
Vote: Stark

Quick to attack a man when he is gone, eh?

And I still want BJ around, don't think me not voting for him gives you permission to kill him

[Tamuz]

*rolls eyes* I'm Harry Truman, first name in the song. When I die, avenge me.

My god! Its... brilliant!
Yet, I iammars wouldn't be so simple to post 7(!) names, leaving 5, so 4 Mafia and 1 SK, giving the 7 names of the innocent. Just because you can quote a name in that song has no impact on your innocent. I might as well claim as Walt Disney for all the good your RC just did.
Oh, by the way, I might just be ol' Walt

[Tamuz]

This is my first as well, but 5 bad to 7 good with two killing groups seems like reasonable numbers if I was a mod and making a game. Not saying I know those would be the numbers, but they make sense... and really I'm just expressing a great deal of disinterest/trust in that RC. It says nothing.

[Tamuz]

Cops can be protected, cops can't really...

[Tamuz]

Stark gets two votes now Iammars?

[Tamuz]

I say we lynch BJ if Bamboo ends up dead. And I think that's a lynch, though I might be wrong.

huh?

[Tamuz]

Vote Stark

I kept my vote on him yesterday throughout the run-up for a reason. I still think he is our kingpin

[Tamuz]

Question: Can I see a link to a game where BJ, using his special BJness lived to an endgame and helped the town by his progressive ways?

And, does Iammars special little We need a Bus mean anything to anybody? I feel it could be important, not that I really know
To stark: Yeah, BJ did push for a quick lynch, but look at everyone who followed him now pointing fingers madly at their prophetic misdoer of yesterday when they themselves are to blame...

To Bloojay/BJ: Yeah bloojay, you were on that bandwagon without very pretty logic yet now you are using that against BJ. Uh-uh, I don't trust that. And don't even try to pull a "BJ was claiming cop with a guilty investigation". If you really thought that, then I'm sure the mafia would have as well, or the doc and we would have a different night result. So des neh?

[Tamuz]

Iammars already yelled at me for trying to outguess him.

And BJ, do you mean you have never, in all your games lived to the end of a game. or even beyond 3 quarters of the days 'n nights? I'd really like some hard data of your past games to contrast with the "BJ is worthless" statements, because, although I don't trust you as per mafia, I think your stratagy must have some validity to it at some point or you would give up

[Tamuz]

im sticking with the vote... its hard for me to beleive that Truman has no abilities.

I AGREE WITH BABYJ we need to kill someone. hes claiming Truman with no other abilities. i think hes 2 away from a lynch. there is a possiblity that hes holding somthing aobut his role back. but if he is hes hurting the town.

No one made you vote along with the Bamboomancer wagon, and for someone who felt strongly enough to vote bamboo based on the above quote .. I definately think you're scum trying to use BJ as the scapegoat.

Unvote: LyingBrian

.. and ...

Vote: rajrhcpfreak

Why single out Rajr then? there are 3-4players who should be voted by your logic

unvote:stark vote:This is not me

I still like a start lynch, but I'll take this to the bank. Pata?

[Tamuz]

cause i have 2 votes on me and someone asked if anyones ability has anything to do with their role,i have kinda....

I think this one needs a killing. No absolutely founded in text reasons, but he seems fishy for me, and a copier. And we all know people who copy are most likely scums trying to act like an innocent to use that as a sticking point of their innocence. *ehemm* apprentice *ehemm*

[Tamuz]

Would BJ claim mason as scum without support?

Honestly, that would be a plain shoddy scum plain that I wouldn't expect of BJ.

Brian, funny that you are pushing for exactly the thing that has caused suspicion to fall upon Nai (?) trying to get info.

[Tamuz]

unvote: This is not me
vote: Lying brian

he is a hypocrite, and I'd vote hypocrites before liars and annoying people, since they are scumtastic

[Tamuz]

I'm happy with my vote eespecially with the latestcirumstances, and that LB's only response to my earlier accusation made no sense at all to me. The situations really aren't different as the game's situations are the same and no hard evidence is there on either hand... so exact same situation with different names.

If I could double vote, I would triple vote LB

[Tamuz]

I'm happy with my vote eespecially with the latestcirumstances, and that LB's only response to my earlier accusation made no sense at all to me. The situations really aren't different as the game's situations are the same and no hard evidence is there on either hand... so exact same situation with different names.

If I could double vote, I would triple vote LB

if you can start a bandwagon and get me to 5 votes, then i'll explain the numerous differences between the two situations, but w/ 2 votes, i'm just too lazy to do the work.

Read, I'm really not going to expound because it will bring up interesting questions that will bring suspicions upon me.

Does nobody else see this, in all seriousness?

[Tamuz]

And your attacks? (aka your voting)
That is more what I was focused on rather than your request for information. Which brings up another thing; false representation. You lie to advance your case. You say there are numerous things, yet you only say one and expect me to be happy with that. Pah

And another thing to notice ladies and gentlemen, Bryan has said multiple times that he is new at this, which seems to me to be a way of trying to break hiimself away from responsability.

[Tamuz]

I'm confused here .. Are BabyJesus, Bloojay, and Nai all claiming to be fellow masons?

I am equally confused about that situation Nanook, but I prefer to stay above the much and in the clear for as long as I can...

[Tamuz]

Bloojay, you're saying you'd rather kill a confirmed townie and die yourself than unvote and try another person? What's wrong with this picture... The only group I can see that this helps is Mafia.

Confirmed to you.

I can make the exact same arguement for myself if you ever had the notion to try killing me? I'm a proven innocent (to myself) so why would you ever kill a proven innocent, that would only help an innocent. But I'm all for trying, say, Lying Bryan... oh wait I have been doing that for a while and still am.

[Tamuz]

well there you have it ladies and gentlemen, he is touchy because I have fingered him as a mafia, so, because he has no real rebuttle based on facts he attacks my dignity, I need say no more.

I didn't spell it incorrectly, I just spelled it in my own way. Improving upon an original, and you could still tell I was talking about you, mm hmm.

[Tamuz]

Nai, that is my damn point. Are YOU willing to risk your life, or BJ's (actually, I'm sure you'd risk his) to prove the other one of you innocent. On top of that there is always the chance of a good and bad pair and somebody lying about their role PM's specification that their partner is innocent. I'm saying that my hypothetical situation is just as useless as your current situation with BJ. It tells US (being the rest of the town) nothing, although it might tell you something.

I don't 'got' your talking.

[Tamuz]

There isn't anyone coming forwards to prove Bloojay's claim.

Yet. You came out , I'd suppose, because BJ was in danger of being lynched. Whereas Bloo isn't in as big of a danger as BJ was when you claimed.

[Tamuz]

unvote

well i guess we shoud wait for BabyJesus to tell us what we need to do...

I'm pretty sure lynching a confirmed "mason" is not the play....

Shouldn't it be "confirmed" rather than "mason"?

[Tamuz]

vote: bloojay

this day has to end some time & no one has stepped up to confirm bloojay as a mason, so he has the best chance of lying... if he's telling the truth, we still have 2 masons, and an easy lynch tomorrow...

seriously, this guy is scum.

Seriously, I know

It's that time Again!!! Vote Count:
LB- 1 (Tamuz)

And Brian, maybe, unlike BJ, bloojay hasn't been in enough trouble for his buddies to come out and support him. If you don't have to, don't out yourself. Or is that something that you haven't learned because you are still new at this?

[Tamuz]

If you were part of that 4 Nai, would you trust all 5 are innocent by word of mouth?
No way in hell I would or do

[Tamuz]

i know i'm being eager, and i know that

what i said was scummy

, it was half-

intentional

, half-frustration. sometimes i think PBuG is my long-lost twin!

i can guarantee that my run-up is not a good move for the town! interpret that however you want!

I'll interperet that entire quoted bit, especially the bolded part as a confession. Thats how I want to do it, M'kay!

[Tamuz]

Would Nanook the wolf like to come out and post? I'd like him to...

[Tamuz]

Well I suppose constant support just isn't good enough for you guys, now is it?
Yes I am one of the 3 masons in the Bloojay/Tamuzi/??? mason group. I really didn't want to come out, for the reason BJ mentions, as well as I really don't like having to fall back on mod based knowledge rather than what you pick up in thread. (as in mafia hunting & convincing abilities vs basic reading skills). Although I would have prefered for the other in our group to have claimed [it] didn't and I've been left to the responsability because I can't see such an innocent go down.

Now, for the towns sake, would you mind getting your grimey votes off of bloojay.

Cubsfan, what is it that tamed your suspicions of Stark? If I wasn't so resolute in LB I would be voting for stark myself since he has done nothing to assauge my suspicion in him.

[Tamuz]

care to explain your role?

Whats to explain? We are a threeparte mason group, do you want me to give you a biography of my birth as well?

I almost feel like babyJ, except I'm not the one under the gun

[Tamuz]

Just so the future voter knows, the next vote will kill LB, if it is for him.

[Tamuz]

second, i don't trust the BabyJesus/Nai & bloojay/Tamuz/??? mason groups. too many "confirmed" townies. also, am i the only one who noticed Tamuz was trying to hint that he was a "cop", then when he saw my bandwagon was not gaining any steam, decided to come out as a "mason" to lynch me?

I was never hinting cop. From the beggining I have had basis for my attack on you, both textual and feeling. I was trying to hint that I was bloojay's mason, but nobody picked anything up and unvoted so I was forced to claim. I'm not going to let bloo, a confirmed innocent

to me

to die by not stepping up to the plate. Just as Nai did for BJ. With 48 hours I was just hoping I didn't step up to late. The thought of lynching you did not cross my mind, only protecting one I knew shouldn't be killed.

And if you thought I was a cop fingering you why did you ignore me so much?

Do you think that I would have waited so long for a drastic move to get you lynched? I've been calm and protective for the day (except towards you and stark to who I've been aggressive). I still don't know what really to think of the BJ and Nai pair, but I don't think BJ is innocent, and bloo doesn't think they are innocent so that is almost good enough for me. Only to be expanded tommorow.

[Tamuz]

Tamuz, you mis-spelled your own name in your coming out post.

I write my name both as Tamuz and Tamuzi, I'm actually more partial to Tamuzi and so I wrote it like that. Not that I would really be anal about anyone calling me either name or something spawning off of it, as long as I can tell which is which

Pata... you just flew up to #3 on my suspicions list.

oky now i complitly belive lyingbrian beacause i havnt a person as a role either,i have a group of persons too,like you have mafia,but i am not saying what i have....

Not only do I know that your english is better than this (you even capitilized your 'I's on IRC, but that point is also bolshy. So you have a similar titled role and that makes him innocent because you are? Or are you implying that you too are a group of people, a mafia and you believe that he is mafia, because your group is mafia? That may be a stretch, or a twist, but it does display the irrelivancy/falliciousness of such logic.

Neither Iammars, nor any other experienced mod would make a game completely breakable by similarities in names so your point is moot, in fact it is suspect rather than beneficial. (and don't go citing my WOT, I'm not too experienced, and I overthought some assumptions, as well as it is bad form to discuss running games)[/quote]

[Tamuz]

The logic in that was that mods don't often name mafia guys in themed mafia to mafia.So it was risky claim from claiming a group of people what isn't that common and beacause i have a group of people to,i tend to belive him.

Cite me

Any

other game with a character named mafia in general, townie or Scum and I may believe you just for your hard work. Mafia isn't a very oftenly used name, unless a mod is bored and just calls all his scum mafia

Iammars wouldn't make the group so breakable so that all groups are innocent. You are pretty much doing a WIFOM right now, but the way I percieve it you aren't taking it to far. You say that Iammars names a character mafia, to make us think he is mafia. But if Iammars wants us to think he is mafia, then he won't be. Sounds good and pretty. Thanks Iammars for the clue. Innocent, I say, innocent!

Personally, I think such a WIFOM should just be ignored, replace Mafia with Joe Schmoe so you don't confuse yourself. WIFOM'ing will just take you down a road of blind believe or eternal doubt, neither which are good for decisions

and thinking about it LyingBrian (spelled right that time, eh?) took one of the three happy scum claims. You have your mason scum, your doc scum, and your vig scum. Doc scums often out themself, mason scum need a support, which will out two scum, and vig scums can prove by killing--which just happens to be the mafias strong suit. I dun like it LyingBrian.

[Tamuz]

WIFOM is Wine In Front of Me. See the princess bride. (A smart man would but the poison in front of him because that would make me think a smart man would never have the poison nearest to him. So I'll move the poison, but that would be what you want me to do, so I'm not going to take the cup in front of you because you would want me to take that one. However, you would put the poison closest to me having me think that)

As you see, endless circles of logic. Which is why I believe you just shouldn't consider the name Mafia as evidence either way

[Tamuz]

Ok maybe the name doesent tell anything,but i still think lyingbrian is innocent....

Why? You've accepted my every rebuttle to your support of LyingBrian, yet you still support him. I'd just like to understand why you trust the man. You can't be hinting that you & LB are yet another mason group and thats why you are so resolutely sure of his innocence .

[Tamuz]

time to

vote stark

an explaination would be nice, comrade. note though, that cubsfan was a

paranoid

cop. did you noticed how he kept his vote on me for a while? also

vote: TINM

he, i think, is the best option at the moment

so I need to explain my single vote on you, but you don't need to explain hopping a bandwagon?

nice.

I'm voting you for your action yesterday, nothin to do with cubsfan. Yesterday I felt the two scummiest people were you and LB. One down, one to go in my book.

ditto

vote:Stark

Pata, you are my #2

[Tamuz]

I don't trust pata atm, his claim is too simple, nobody can come out and disprove him since he roleblocked a dead person

[Tamuz]

probably gone for thanksgiving. but....i think raj and nanook are the only ones who haven't claimed. i'll check real quick.

...
...
...

nope, he hasn't.

unvote, vote Raj.

in retrospect, has made very odd and scummy switches throughout the game.

Bloo/Tamuz - who is the 3rd member of your mason group?

well, i guess it wouldn't hurt....lemme think on that more, though.

like we don't all know its Nanook....

Then why ask?

[Tamuz]

I just speak what I see. Not meant as anything more than a fact.

Now I remember. Sorry, brain is atrophying while playing 3 mafia games, modding a fourth, and getting ready to mod one here. I just need to start taking notes, that's all.

I still would like to see TINM dead, just for bad plays and illogical comments.

Well bloo me and ??? could just be doing an amazing ploy. You really don't know how dumb I could be, eh?

Despite recent developements, I still think stark is our kingpin. I was spot on about Lying Bryan, I have the same feeling with Stark. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Stark has RC'ed...My vote stays

[Tamuz]

Bloojay group seems scummy to me beacause they just are 3 people and there is another manson and 1 of the mansons is obviously lying and 3 players fit better into mafia, but after the Iammars not answering to no kill question i started to tink that the 2 person manson +nightkillblocker could be mafia too....

Nightblocker... like *cough* YOU. And Pata, please learn the term Mason. Manson isn't a real word... just last names, or rather scary people.

Nai, I was saying that as a set-up to express distrust in the BJ/You mason group. I'm not to sure about how dumb you could be, just as you are with me. Therefore, I feel I cannot trust neither you nor BJ.

Iunno, I can't meta-game with this little experience

[Tamuz]

my idea= lynch rajr beacause he a) has used up all his abilities and b) he would be in the 2nd group of scummys and c) he might be in the 3th goup of scummies or you could lynch me,but then i couldnt block nanook,who i think is godfather beacause the 1st scummy group reavealed him the latest.

Not to mention you did half confess you were mafia, see This:

i started to tink that the 2 person manson +nightkillblocker could be mafia too....

Nightblocker... like *cough* YOU.

Stark or TINM, I'm impartial, From previous days I like Stark as a vote, from today I like Pata

[Tamuz]

unvote: Stark
vote: This is not me

[Tamuz]

Is that the best you can come up with, Bloojay? "Kill them or you'll have our deaths on your conscience"?

Well, its more like a loss at the hands of someone with information that he knows is right.

Where's your third mason member to speak up, saying he's in the mason party?

If you haven't noticed, he's been not posting in all of his games. I guess he's away for something. Perhaps a prod, Iammars?

Lemme ask you 2 (Nai and BJ) a question....what happened to you guy's suspicions of Stark? Did they just disappear after last night? He's posted, and you guys haven't seen him to be NEARLY as scummy as you have on previous days.

because I don't think Stark and raj are the only two scum left....I think there's 3 left. And if they ARE, we still have one miss left. If you three are the scum, we have no misses. Either way, we need to test your little group.

et tu BJ. I don't think you are scum from your play, but looking at it logically, I know my mason group is not mafia because Iammars has told me so. I don't know if you two are mafia or not. For all I know it is stark and raj. Really, unless you have investigations to go off of, all you can use is your role and your belief in this thread. I believe Raj to be innocent, I also know Bloo and Nan to be innocent, unless there is an off chance of one of the two being a mafia defector (which may explain Nanook's lurking) But I truely doubt that. So, as I see it the mafia is BJ + Nai + (possibly) stark assuming on a 3 person mafia. If you can make such an assumption. Personally, stark is my favorite because I have believed him to be bad from the day we killed LB. I got the same feeling from Stark that I did from LB, and note LB was BAD (and I was the first to stick him with reason).

In short, I would vote stark on feeling, but on logic and trust of my mafia-mate Bloo, I will

vote: BJ

. I trust your group not at all

[Tamuz]

Well, its more like a loss at the hands of someone with information that he knows is right.

Wait... Doesn't this sound like what I've been saying? That I KNOW that BJ is clean, so I'm going after the most possible other scum groups? Hmm. Interesting. But recall this: BJ said he had a "mason" friend first. Then I backed him up. You ONLY started saying you were masons BECAUSE we claimed, and you wanted to attack us. You had no credibility, so you HAD to claim. Unless BJ and I are real ball-sy mafia members (claiming mason first?), you are just scum that made a bad play. Your mafia buddies had two choices: Back you up or let you crash and burn. However, you somehow convinced them to back you up with this. Thus, we get our three man mason group.

Doesn't make any sense in the logical mind. In any case, Raj's move gained us a night. Your group needs to be tested. I'm willing to be lynched tomarrow if I'm wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong.

It doesn't matter whether you think you are wrong or not, the fact is bloo is innocent, and you guys just lynched an innocent. Anyways, are we supposed to talk during twilight?

[Tamuz]

Well, looking at the numbers, unless we have an lying sk or vig who just haven't killed yet. (yeah, 100% doubt) then we have two mafia. This fits in perfectly with the 2 mafia mason group, or our two non-masons are our guilty couple. Raj has cleared himself though, which would get rid of that idea. So, BJ and Nai seem to be our scum , comments?
I will withold a vote for now for fear that there may be something I've overlooked and scum will get a speed lynch off of it.

[Tamuz]

does it matter? One today, one tommorow

vote: BJ

[Tamuz]

I never saw this

http://s14.invisionfree.com/Iammafia/index.php?c=2

Nor did I know my name was Watergate the whole game . That is the only thing I can say about this Iammars, more easily understandable Role PMs.

Raj, well done. Way to lurk alot it worked. And pretty RC, I still can't believe it worked.

LB. See you in 161

BJ. I wanted to keep you alive, but Stark chose not to let you live until the endgame. I really wanted to have a game for you to quote where you are innocent & live to the endgame, but you didn't get it

[Tamuz]

but dont ever use those stupid boards ever agian. that was the reason we didnt ahve a night one choice.... i dont think tamuz ever posted in it...

I was so confused, I didn't even know my role unti night 1 when you told me what it was

[Tamuz]

Just realized we were talking about a different game