Open 256~Fire and Ice Mafia Over!

[Zed]

/confirmining. I'll go catch up now

[Zed]

In a hurry right now so I'm making it quick.

So, multiple people thought shotty was scum. He wasn't, but it happens.

i thought his slot was likely scum. i voted him. he thought he was hammered and said "gg i'm town". i weighed the chances of it being the truth or a gambit. i went with it being a gambit and decide to leave my vote on to see where it went.

This makes no sense. If he thought you hammered, why would he fake reveal? The mod is going to confirm his status anyway, it makes no sense to lie about it.

jesse seems more town than don. I'm leaning more town than scum on robo.

'kay, I'll be back later.

[Zed]

please pay attention. if he knew he wasn't hammered, he could have taken the oppurtunity to say "gg i'm town" making others think he didn't realize he hadn't been hammered and thus thought he was truly hammered, which in fact, he wasn't, and was well aware of. see? it happens all the time.

I pay plenty of attention. Just because you think he was aware that you hadn't really hammered, doesn't mean he really was. Not everyone has the same thought process of you and remembers the same things that you do, or the things that you did. You clearly can not comprehend that. Just because you know what you did, doesn't mean shotty did. It doesn't mean he looked at the vote count before posting. It doesn't mean anything. But what you said still does not make sense to me, and you saying I do not pay attention is not helping me think you are innocent. That whole post screams lynch me, I don't like when people like me imo.

DJ's severely testing my patience.

You should have seen this post before I made it nice.

[Zed]

don, I get what you are saying. The trouble is you aren't getting that there are other possibilities.

[Zed]

All I' saying, don, is that I don't understand why you didn't unvote for real after your fake hammer on shotty.

[Zed]

don't bring it up if you don't feel like sharing robo.

[Zed]

Just because someone seems scummy to you doesn't mean they see. scummy to anyone else.

share pls

[Zed]

Sorry, I've been busy. Catching up and posting tomorrow

[Zed]

Sorry guys, didn't realize it had been that long. Doing a reread in a little, I'll be posting some thoughts

[Zed]

So, I reread. It isn't very complete because I don't have a lot of time tonight. But the basic thing I'm thinking is, I have no idea what to think about anyone. I'm finding it difficult to get a read on anyone, and maybe it is just because I replaced it (this is my first one, and the game feels very different to me). I do have time when I'm on the bus in the morning, usually, so I'll be reading again and looking at more detail if I get the chance.

[Zed]

Okay. I'm in high school. It is the end of the marking period, which means ridiculous amounts of work. Sorry I've been busy, and catching up when I can? Because that *clearly* makes me scum. mhm.

d_j, trying to go for someone who might not have the time to defend themself? That seems awfully scummy.

was it when he was completely misunderstanding and misrepresenting my statements?

No. I did not misunderstand, or misrepresnt you. What you did makes no sense to me. I would not have done the same thing if I were ni your position. I CAN SEE WHY YOU DID WHAT YOU DID, but I do not think it was good play. I, honestly, think it was scummy. You are now frequently misrepresenting other players, and that is scummy. You are scummy. Oh, and, I'me a she. Gonna make that my sig now.

To me, jesse is logical. He makes sense. d_j is misrepping what he said, and he is defending himself in a way that makes complete sense. I do not find him suspicious.

Personally, I think Zed's a much better choice for lynch; DJ's post earlier confirmed that Zed has contributed nothing thus far. DJ is at least keeping the game moving. I'll be able to check in tomorrow around 2pm EDT, and if there's a shift to a player I think more likely to turn up scum (i.e. Zed), I will probably switch my vote then.

If I am a better choice for a lynch, then why are you voting for dj? Also, you put him at L-1

(if his vote counts, can we get mod confirmation on that?)

And I wasn't here for it, but the wagon on Katsuki was ridiculous. dj started it, if you don't remember.

preview: oh hi mallow. thanks for hammering

[Zed]

well, crap.

and hi scott.

[Zed]

I don't think the doctor should claim. A 1/3 chance is better than a 0/3 chance, and it just sounds like you are trying to fish out the doctor.

The doctor doesn't have any extra information anyway, nothing they say should have more impact on the townies than what anyone else says. A townie shouldn't even be positive about a doctor's claim, beacuse there is still the chance that one of the scum teams would take a gamble.

[Zed]

Did you know that this is an actual scumtell? That I myself have literally seen in action? I'm pretty sure Tar created a page of his scumtells and its on there. Its real. And you just used it. Saying something like, "oh man, that sucks" or "well, crap" is often used by scum. IGMEOY

Yeah? Did you know pointing out terrible scum tell is a scum tell? Bet you didn't. Oh wait, oops, I just did it, too! /sarcasm

Did you also notice that I had the most recent post with content? There was nothing else for me to say than 'crap, we just lynched an innocent'

Oh, and also docs are useless.

I have to half agree, and half disagree with this.

Doctor is a hard role to play. It is unlikely that an innocent can successfully block a ban. It is a bit of a talent, if you ask me. But some people are very good doctors, and can successfully block multiple bans in a game. I've seen it go both ways, but it really depends on who the doctor is, and how skilled they are with that role.

4. Zed/Jed

Who is Jed?

[Zed]

Hey Robo, do you just read like every other word in my post? Did you notice my clear sarcasm tag? Or my use of past tense with the word 'had' in my more serious response?

Since you are just really adding to how pissed off I am right now, I will make things even clearer, because I'm not explaining this again.

When I said "oh crap", I HAD the LAST post with content. There was NOTHING new for me to discuss, because I was the LAST person to discuss anything. I had even already talked about how I felt about dj, so the only thing new was his status. And that was the a "well, crap" kind of thing to happen. How can me saying that be scummy IF THAT AND THE BAN OF TWO ROLELESS INNOECENTS WAS THE ONLY THING NEW?

And now, you're picking at things that don't make sense. It looks like you are just trying to appear to be scumhunting, and I don't like it.

[Zed]

instead of yelling your head off.

Caps were for emphasis.

Looking through the thread again, the only two people still alive that Lowell mentioned is Robo and Jesse. Lowell has been saying that Jesse is town since his second post or so, and Robo was town his second post, scum his third, and town his forth. Then we get to his final post and they're a scum team.

Lowell was also mentioned very little throughtout the thread. A skim of the thread shows Robo mentioning him, Morthrax quoting him, and directly questioning him. Mallow also agrees with Lowell, and Jesse disagrees. Jesse also directly questions Lowell, and votes him. Then Scott starts the wagon, and Lowell is the center of attention.

I find it worrying that Lowell went through most of the game without being mentioned a whole lot. I can see how it happened, because of his playstyle (I kept forgetting he was playing myself), but worrying nonetheless. This makes me want to look at some other quiet players, the ones who have stayed out of the way for the most part. I plan on doing that the next chance I get, but for now I have to do some stuff.

Also, is it lylo for the town?

[Zed]

I never said, or suggested, that I was one of the more talkative players. I don't know where you are getting that from.

[Zed]

I did not accuse anyone of being scum. I did not say I am not quiet. Lowell was argueably the quietest player and he flipped. I feel that that is enough for me to look at quieter players. I do no need to look at myself because I obviously know my status. If anyone wishes to do so, go ahead. I see the logic in it.

And buddying of mallow and scott noted.

[Zed]

Maybe buddying isn't the right word, but it is the only way I can think of to describe what I see. But I find it odd that you both say basically the same thing in every post right now.

I feel as if there's probably one quiet player per team and one loud player per team. That's just kind of throwing a guess out there but it makes sense to me. I think there's probably only one lurker scum left and the other two are more likely louder players. So I think the players who are suggesting we start picking off the quieter players are most likely scum.

Did I suggest we start picking off the quiet players? No. Please to be reading.

Does it worry anyone else that Lowell was almost completely off the radar until scott came up and said "hey, look at this guy's voting record! it looks suspicious..." Because it worries me.

I feel that Zed is most likely Lowell's partner.

Can you back this up at all? Because it feels like to me, you're just saying that to lok helpful, because you know who Lowell's partner is. (That would mean you.)

[Zed]

I had a town read on you until you voted me for weak reasoning.

[Zed]

jesse, I find it suspicious if someone votes for anyone with bad reasoning. Your voting me, so I notice it faster. But if you were voting for anyone with your reasoning just being a misrepresentation of words, then yeah, I would still be saying something.

mallow, I don't think I was off the radar.

[Zed]

jesse, you are misunderstanding what I said. You're voting me for one reason, which is the misunderstanding. I said that.

mallow, I was

busy

. Maybe you always have time to catch up, but I don't. If I had the time, I would have posted something worth while. I probably should have said I was going to be more or less V/LA at the time, but I didn't think it would take me that long to do everything I had to. I have also been much more present in the thread since then.

If you would like to discuss my activitty issues after the game, I will be more than happy to do so. Maybe then you won't be a jerk about it.

[Zed]

I did not suggest that we should start picking off the quiet players. You said I said that.

[Zed]

I'm not floundering. I'm perfectly capable of defending myself. I've played... ten games of mafia so far? Somewhere around that. And I've been lynched once, even if there are others voting for me in other rounds. So yeah, I think I've proven to myself that I'm capable of defending myself when being thought of as suspicious.

I think I was around once when there was a hammer vote, and I think I was against it, I don't remember. I also don't like to vote more than once a round if I have to, it's just how I play.

And if you would stop giving me stiupid things to respond to, I could spend time I wanted to use to make a case on someone instead of discussing my play.

[Zed]

Picking up my prod.

Posting tomorrow.

[Zed]

CommieX/Vren/curiouskarmadog

Commie said a few that caught my attention. She voted for jmurph, who we now know to be innocent. Vren has mentioned Jesse and Robo's realationship, calling it weird. Rereading the posts, I see where she got that from. Town read here, they both seem to be scumhunting.

I find it odd that Robo went from being one of the most vocal players, to being barely present. He said something has to happen earlier... but he hasn't done anything toDay.

Reading mallow in ISO, he hasn't made a case yet. He also voted for scott after scott made his case on Lowell, and only moved to hammer Lowell when Robo pointed out the flaws in his defense of Lowell. So, I'm seeing Lowell's scum buddy here.

vote: mallow

Yes, I feel good enough about this to put mallow at L-1.

[Zed]

That response... worries me. All you're saying is "she's crazy, I really did do it!" And I think that if anyone looked at you in ISO they would see what I'm seeing.

I reread you in ISO at least four times, I reread everyone at least twice. I compared you to posts by others at the same time to make sure I was corect.

I'll even go back and break it down for you. You voted for Robo for overeagerness. You piggybacked on Lowell's case on mothrax. You just said. "I agree. His bipolar decisions make me think he is scum." That was later explained to be misrepresentation and you never talked about it again. Then you just wanted to question CSL. Then you voted for DJ even though you didn't think he was scum. Trying to set yourself up for FoI when he flipped innocent and trying to look helpful at the same time? Voted for scott because he thought the doc should claim. I don't find that vote worthy, even though I disagree with it. You're pointed at for low participation and you just say "Me? But what about CSL!!!" You then leave an FoS on scott and robo, two of Lowell's attackers. You say Lowell must be innocent because the two people who are scummy to you are attacking him. This is crap, and when Robo calls you out on it you agree and hammer Lowell. That is two you hammered with innocent thoughts, because you never gave any indication that Lowell moved up on your scum list in the thread. Then you attack me for being quiet and say I was under the radar. But I could have sworn you replaced in at some point, because I had forgotten you were playing. Then you let Robo do all the talking against Vren. You added one word to the whole post, the rest was a quote.

I feel even more confident now that I got that out.

[Zed]

There are no cross kills.

Mallow, I know you started from the beginning, I checked awhile ago. But you were under the radar. I had no idea you were playing, because you didn't contribute anything that stuck out in my mind.

Now that I'm on a computer I will happily show you where he said what.

Voted Robo for overeagerness.

Piggybacked on Lowell's case of Mothrax.

Mothrax explains that it is a misrepresntation, and Mallow addresses it, but it isn't brought up again.

Wants to question CSL here.

Votes DJ even though he doesn't think he is scum. Why do that?

Votes Scott because he wants doc to claim. Note that this is after he presents his case on Lowell.

Points at CSL for inactivity.

Has an FoS on Scott and Robo, two of Lowell's accusers, one for weak reasoning and one from day one for overeagerness.

Robo says Mallow's reasoning for not voting Lowell is crap, and Mallow follows that with a vote on Lowell, without saying that he thinks Lowell is scum.

Not linking the rest because it's recent, and I'm sick of url tags...

[Zed]

Oh wait, crosskills =/= same kill. My bad.

[Zed]

[quote"curiouskarmadog"]only one kill???
[/quote]

Did you forget about the doctor?

I personally, don't find either of your cases to be very convincing, and I don't plan on looking at scott of robo myself after it.

[Zed]

only one kill???

Did you forget about the doctor?

I personally, don't find either of your cases to be very convincing, and I don't plan on looking at scott of robo myself after it.

out of my whole post THAT is the only thing worth mentioning?.....can you go over your case for mallow for me again?...why is he scummer than robo?

Yes, that is all I found. All you did was summerize the thread for us, you hardly voiced any opinions. That doesn't really help.

Why should I go over my case against mallow again? I did it three times on the last page. One of them even has links. Go read them yourself.

And I don't find Robo that scummy right now.

[Zed]

"why should I go over my case"? arent you trying to convince us that you think X is scummy? bonus scum points for that statement. you should be chomping at the bit to convince people that someone "who you supposedly think is scummy" is indeed scummy, but I ask you to do it again and you give me shit? maybe I had a reason for asking for it....shouldnt you be scum hunting?..instead of saying.."here is the link to my case of why i think mallow is scummy, I would really like you stance on this today"..you say "go read them yourself"

I dont believe you really think mallow is scum....

for that,

unvote, vote zed.

Thats bull and you know it. But I do apologize for my rudeness, even if I don't find it uncalled for. But I explained my case three times. I did a light outline first. Mallow said that's bull, and I went into detail. I commented on nearly all of his posts in ISO from my phone. Robo said, show me instead of telling me. So I did, I gave links. And still no one commented. Mallow can't even be bothered defending himself, did anyone notice that? Do you know how frustrating that is? And then for someone to ask me to go over it for a fourth time, with not even a whole page between? Thats ridiculous.There is no reason why you can't click the little page numbers and read it yourself.

also that puts

her

at -1

Please to be reading.

Also, I am the doctor. I was hoping to keep that quiet, but I don't trust scott enough not to claim.

And note that mallow was at L-1 for awhile with no claim.

[Zed]

EDWOP: I was also phone posting when I said to go read it yourself. But if I could have linked, I probably would have followed by a snarky comment of some sort.

[Zed]

Busy couple of days.

But really mallow, after I said you haven't hada one case of your own, you vote again without providing one?

[Zed]

what CKD and Robo said about Jesse's post.

Now can we lynch mallow please?

[Zed]

Bah, meant to preview.

I'm really confused about how Jesse has a 100% town read on Scott, when after his latest post, I'm getting scum.

My read at the moment is that Robo is the other town member (assuming Zed's claim). Mallow, CKD, JS would then be my preferred lynches in order with a strong preference for mallow.

I feel like he's trying to hard to make us think he is town here. We know you think you're town, why do you have to mention it?

[Zed]

Why don't you want to lynch Mallow?

[Zed]

Its the day of the deadline and you're trying to start a new wagon? I find that scummy. Don't you think it would be more useful to not miss the lynch?

[Zed]

The Mallow lynch has been around all day. He has more votes then Jesse, and if Robo would have been helpful he would have put mallow at L-1 the night before the deadline. I'm willing to lynch Jesse, I find his latest post scummy, but I find Mallow much more suspicous and would rather see a lynch there.

[Zed]

Well, I really thought Mallow was ice with Lowell, but I guess not....

Planning on looking through posts tomorrow when I have the time.

[Zed]

I want to hear from Zed.

Uhh... what exactly do you want to hear?

So, Robo, want to explain why you chose not to put Mallow at L-1 the night before the deadline, or do I have to hold that against you? Because I'm not accepting that you just found Jesse scummier at the moment. Especially after this post

Deadline is looming near, I'm thinking about voting Mallow.

I don't have a case on him so it feels not right to vote him. I actually had my eye on Vren and her replacement. If it comes down to it I'll throw the hammer on.

and this, even closer to the deadline

I'm up for a Mallow lynch. Though I would really appreciate some answers.

I know you said you didn't have a case on Mallow, but you also said you were willing to vote there twice. so what changed, exactly?

I also think CKD earns another look, in light of Mallow's flip because of what Vren was so adamant about:

Reads:
Robo: Fire scum
Mallow: Ice Scum

This can be read as scum trying to distance in case his scum partner was lynched. Like a "if I was Mallow's scum partner, why would I say he was ice when he was really fire?!" kind of thing. But I'm not completely ruling out Robo from this read either.

I'll get to this hopefully tomorrow, I've been staring at a computer too long today.

And I haven't forgotten CKD's.. hesitiation? I guess in voting for Mallow near the deadline, and being the only one voting for Jesse even though he pointed out in the same post that our deadline is tomorrow.

[Zed]

But what exactly do you want to hear? Any questions you have or something like that?

[Zed]

3. Zed I want to know what made you believe Mallow was Ice with Lowell when Mallow's actions, to me, nearly confirmed that he the opposing scum faction.

Mallow hesitated with his hammer on Lowell. He found terrible reasons not to vote for him. Mallow mentioned Lowell once or twice the whole game. Lowell only mentioned Mallow in passing. Calling Lowell "Lolwell", I thought that was odd.

And my whole case wasn't based on Mallow and Lowell looking like scum partners, Mallow had suspicious behavior on his own.

[Zed]

I know this has been answered already, but me telling who I have protected so far isn't really helpful. Besides, hopefully tonight I won't have to protect anyone, because they'll only be one scum left and I'll be dead.

I think we should take our time with this day, and not rush a hammer. Let everyone look at all the players, no matter how sure you are that so-and-so is scum. We have a week, so let's use it.

Just a heads up, I won't be able to look at any players until Friday night or Saturday. I'll be posting between now and then, but I don't have time to do rereads until then.

[Zed]

Oh and Robo, I was quoting you when I questioned you. I thought that was clear since I was addressing you.

[Zed]

Well Jesse took the words right out of my mouth, Robo. At this point I would think I'm near confirmed to everyone.

Going to look at players hopefully tonight. I expect to pay special attention to Robo since he has recently had some anti-town thought (wanting to know who I protected, etc, I'll go in detail wit my thoughts later)

[Zed]

In my defense, I wasn't thinking antitownly about the protections. I just had the idea we could actually catch scum with it. But was wrong. We all make mistakes.

The problem is that it could show the pattern which I choose who I protect with. I haven't been successful yet, and if there is a chance that I'll be able to protect someone tonight, then it is more likely that I'll fail again if the scum knows how I decide.

Robo wanting to know about who you protected is not so much anti-town and just pro-scum (there is a difference)...

Maybe to you there is a difference, but to me anyone who does something pro-scum is anti-town.

here is my issue at this point...I am not scum..there are 2 scum between Robo, Jesse, and SB...jesse is claiming that SB is 100% town....that simply can not be OR Jesse is scum and knows SB is town (somehow) and is trying to buy a bud...it appears to be working..cause SB's vote is on me....lets say Robo is scum....we lynch him....mafia most likley will pop off you (zed)...that leaves me with SB and jesse (who would also "like" my lynch).....town is going to lose.

You telling me you aren't sscum makes me even more suspicious of you. There is no way the scum knows who the town is, or who the other scum is. They can have hunches, sure, but they can't be completely positive. And at this point, I'm not concerned about what happens tomorrow. That doesn't help me catch scum today, and at the moment, that is all that should be on anyone's mind. Why are you thinking ahead?

that is how it is going to play out going down the robo lynch...zed, I hope you see that or at least see the possibility...I am down right begging you to hammer jesse.....

Why would I hammer anyone right now if in one of my most recent posts, I explained why we should take our time? You're trying to rush the day, and that isn't helping.

if you wont, please....consider taking me out today instead....it will be 1v1v2(town)...our only hope will be that mafia either both try offing you..or they hit each other...that is a better chance of us winning than lynching robo today and leaving me alone with jesse and SB tomorrow...

Why would you point out that "our only hope" would be if the scum both tried to ban me? I find that to be anti-town.

After this I trust you the least out of everyone left.

[Zed]

The deadline is tomorrow, and I'm honestly sick of this game.

So here we go, just gonna hammer.

Vote: Jesse

Sorry if I'm wrong everyone, but here's why:

CKD's freaking out reads more as nervous townie to me right now. He reminds me of a player I've encountered in the past that, instead of responding calmly, freaked out when he was one of the last town members. It reads to me as someone who wasn't prepared for any pressure, because they didn't think they'd be pressured because there is no reason for them to be pressured.

Again, sorry if I'm wrong. But if I am, then I guess we should have started catching scum earlier.

[Zed]

Yay

[Zed]

No, you really don't want to see who I was protecting. I would have made a great cop >.>

[Zed]

I really thought Robo was the obvious choice for the last day. CKD should have been 75% cleared after the emotion he showed fighting with Jesse. Scott should have been just about confirmed, because he pushed too hard for a lynch on Lowell the whole time. Robo was a little over confident when telling Mallow to vote for Lowell, but anyone can get like that.

Does anyone else think its funny we all targetted Scott the same night? heehee

[Zed]

aw, thanks Jesse. It's nice to be recognized