Mafia 44: Generic - Abandoned!

[BrianMcQueso]

random vote: Jedi

for unretiring for the bazillionth time.

[BrianMcQueso]

unvote: JediKnight
vote: Don Gaetano

I've got no problem with testing our "cop" this early, and if Don doesn't come up scum, Strykker's got some explaining to do.

I'm not too pleased with Don Gaetano's defense, it seems as though he already knows he's been found and is trying to pass it off as sanity. If you actually believe he's an insane/paranoid cop, Gaetano, you wouldn't be voting for him.

[BrianMcQueso]

Don't take this the wrong way, Don, but I'm not sure there's anything you could claim that would make me not want to lynch you. The correct play here should be to test the cop, unless Strykker's been pulling our leg, or if you've got some fantabulously amazing role.

[BrianMcQueso]

Strykker, I'm curious. Why did you single out VitaminK out of all the people on the bandwagon?

1. VitaminR jumps on a bandwagon without even thinking to question what I'm talking about.

[BrianMcQueso]

P.S.

unvote: Don Gaetano

[BrianMcQueso]

LAL doesn't apply here. He may* be an idiot, but he didn't lie. We (mostly me) said he was a cop, he didn't.

*read: "is"

[BrianMcQueso]

I don't think armlx is acting that suspicious, and I don't think Don Gaetanos responce was weird, I can imagine myself acting in the same way. I pretty much have no idea whos bad at this point.

I feel the same way. However (and this is the point I always have to bring up eventually),

we are on Day One

.

Nothing

gets done Day 1.

Ever.

Well, at least nothing beneficial. We could bandwagon until we reveal all our power roles to the scum, but that's probably (read: definitely) not a good idea.

While their behavior may or may not be normal, it's a starter of discussion. I'm not quite sure we should let it drop so easy.

vote: StrykkerVerde

VitaminP was the first on the wagon, but he wasn't the only one. Admittedly, I joined in too. But nevertheless, the fact is that you singled him out, and tried to cast suspicion on him while ignoring everyone else who followed you. Suspicious behavior.

[BrianMcQueso]

This better not be a posting restriction.

You're one to talk, alphabet boy.

If you're going to attack Strykker, do it for the right reason please. I.e. not because of LAL (he didn't lie), but because he's attacking people for bandwagonning and not others who did the same thing. If you think that is a good enough reason to vote, go ahead.

That's what I'm doing... unless you weren't referring to me when you said that.

Also, it's Vitamin&. &.

Whatever you say, VitaminZ.

[BrianMcQueso]

Got away with it? You got a bullet between the eyes, from what I remember. In fact, I believe that bullet was from

me

. Your "posting restriction" is what made us shoot at you, because we believed you were powerful for having such a nasty restriction. Doesn't seem as brilliant now as it did when you first schemed it up, eh?

For everyone who's lost and confused, we're referring to Bizarre Mafia, where Iammars had a fake posting restriction that "required" every post to have the entire alphabet in it. He was scum, and so was I. It's a good read.

[BrianMcQueso]

In case you haven't noticed, Vitamin£, it's intentional

[BrianMcQueso]

I'd bet money it's just a miscount.

I think the whole Fritzler wagon is stupid. Yes, it'd be nice if everyone made majestic, scientific analysises that were full of useful information towards our finding-scum process, but, I've said it before and I'll say it again, This Is Day One. We don't have 20 pages worth of information to look over. We don't have three lynches worth of voting patterns to find voting trends. All we have is random votes and simple bandwagons. It's Day One, baby!

I'm not sure what you're exactly expecting out of Fritzler and why he's being singled out when none of us really have anything majorly significant to say. If anything, at least he's checked in. I'm not much of a fan of lurker hunts (as I think dealing with lurkers is the mod's job), but it's a more obvious first step then running up a guy who's at least still listening and commenting to the town's activities.

Well when StrykkerVerde likens me to a sheep, I think I need to post something.

I agree.

[BrianMcQueso]

You know, we could just lynch Don Gaetano and see if my random guessing was right.

I can't understand you at all, man. First you almost screw over the town with this acting-like-a-cop stupidity, then you decide to revive the random bandwagon for no reason other than you want to see if your stupidity works?

I think the whole LyingBrian bandwagon is stupid. He may not be the biggest contributor right now, but there are people lurking far worse. Also, he hasn't been trying to lead the town astray with CrapLogic™. Vote on Strykker stands.

Also, I'd just like to say for the record right now that I have no idea what's going on here:

3 StrykkerVerde - (BrianMcQueso, Don Gaetano, ????)

[BrianMcQueso]

unvote: StrykkerVerde

I'll give him a chance to prove himself, it's simple enough. We've still got a noose with his name on it waiting for him tomorrow if he's lying.

Oh, and I don't think we should have Strykker tell us who's coming to his little party tonight. If he does, the Mafia is more likely to take a shot at them, methinks. Let's hope for Strykker's sake that the people he invites aren't dead tomorrow by "coincidence".

And just because you're provable doesn't mean you should act like an idiot. Just because Dranko does it doesn't make it cool.

On a seperate note, the ??? vote didn't appear until a later vote count. It would appear somebody has a secret vote, and not that myself or Don has a double vote tagged onto one of us. Somebody out there wanted Strykker lynched, and it makes me believe in his innocence a bit more.

[BrianMcQueso]

I was talking about a completely different question-mark based secret vote, one so secret that it wouldn't even appear on the vote counts... one

so

secret that even the moderator wouldn't know about it.

[BrianMcQueso]

Falcone: If a pro-town player had the option of a secret vote, I would like to think they would come forward. Of course, this would make them a bigger target to the mafia... but a secret vote is something sleazy... I'd expect it to lie in the hands of an anti-town player, something like a Mafia Godfather, or maybe a Serial Killer. Honestly, I'm not sure, it could be pro-town, but abilities like that just seem scummy to me.

[BrianMcQueso]

LyingBrian: True, but if Strykker is scum and gets two scum buddies to join in with him, then if Strykker dies, we get a three-for-one coupon (ka-ching 2+2=5). It's a big risk, and I doubt the Mafia would want to take it.

Strykker's ability doesn't necessarily guarantee his innocence (it could be a bonus ability of a mafia member... though unlikely), but I think it's reasonable to give him a chance.

[BrianMcQueso]

I don't believe Darquiel is lurking on purpose (those were Dranko's words, and they're being taken out of context). He prodded her as normal, and she's not posting for any number of reasons. Nevertheless, I vote

replace Darquiel

, because even if she's legitimately away, it slows down the game*

Chamber: Why voting for LyingBrian? If we're abandoning the Strykker bandwagon and you have a good reason for being suspicious of someone else, it's a good way to start back up discussion again (and common courtesy) if you list your reasons along with your vote.

*A player's abscence doesn't really slow down the game, but the lurker hunt with no discussion other than "Where is soandso?" always is just a waste of time.

[BrianMcQueso]

That's great how our deadline is set towards a time when so few scummers will be on. I hate to bandwagon, but I'd rather see some kind of lynch today rather than no lynch. Sorry, Twomz. If it makes you feel any better, I seriously doubt we'll be able to lynch anyone under these circumstances.

vote: Twomz

Brian's access will be limited until the 26th. I'll try to check in a bit, but I can't promise anything.

[BrianMcQueso]

The *groan* was at Fritzler's horrible pun. "Oh, snap", and the guy's name is "snap", get it?

No, I don't.

I'm curious as to Naubol's attitude towards Falcone. While being shot at doesn't confirm you innocent, it does increase your standing a little bit. A townie is more likely to be shot at than a mafia. If there are two killing groups, a townie can be shot at by either group. A mafioso can only be shot at by the enemy group.

And even though he voted for Twomz way early in the vote, (third), he still voted.

Yeah, there were ten of us on that lynch. One person can't single-handed lynch someone (well, except me, because I'm ridiculously awesome like that), it takes half of us. It seems silly to single him out like that.

[BrianMcQueso]

I got it the first time on Day 1, but it amuses me to see people try to explain groingrabbingly obvious jokes.

[BrianMcQueso]

I'm under the impression that Strykker can't choose if he invites pro-towns or not... if he invited someone that didn't show up, that'd make him some sort of supercop. This doesn't confirm the three of them as innocent, it just proves Strykker was telling the truth about being able to invite people.

If they're a cult, then they've got some balls linking themselves together publicly. Besides, Strykker will be able to invite two different people tonight, further confirming him (because for some reason you're still doubting him). That's some cult if he can recruit two people each night.

I hate to admit it, but it looks like he's innocent, Fritzler.

[BrianMcQueso]

Dranko, do you realize that if the day ends on the deadline day you've set, Day two will have lasted 12 days? That seems really short to me. I think if you're impatient for activity you should send out prods instead of punishing those who

are

active.

Looking back over the Twomz lynch yesterday, Fritzler's behavior made me feel funny. His attitude once Twomz had been lynched (but not before day closed) wasn't very protownly. If I had checked in and realized we had lynched a doctor, my reaction would probably be more like Falcone's
than http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=214]Fritzler's[/url]. "You're lynched. Bye buddy." Isn't the remorseful response I'd expect out of a realization that we lynched a valuable power role.

Gotta hate an unproductive mason session.

Well, it did confirm Strykker's innocence. Also, Strykker had no way of knowing whether his two drinking buddies were pro-town. If I had a mason partner I knew was innocent, then I would be more willing to share my inner thoughts about the game with them. I wouldn't have the same security with two strangers.

[BrianMcQueso]

I take back/clarify some of what I've said earler; Strykker's role doesn't actually confirm him innocent, but I at this point Il have no suspicion of him whatsoever because of last night's actions. He confirmed that he has the ability that he claimed he did, and while it is

possible

that an anti-town role would have an extra power like that, I find it amazingly unlikely.

I also forgot to do this last post.

vote: Fritzler

[BrianMcQueso]

*stands away from Fritzler, who may or may not be struck by lightning at any moment*

[BrianMcQueso]

Another quick bandwagon?

I'm not really feeling this one, but I'm not too opposed to it, either. I'd still rather "snap" Fritzler's neck, but at least let's give this one a chance to claim, yea?

[BrianMcQueso]

P.S. Remind me to read all the pages, including the part where Armlx claims, before saying "let's give him a chance to claim".

[BrianMcQueso]

The way armlx worded his claim makes me almost sure he's telling the truth. I'd prefer not to say any more than that. I really am almost certain he's innocent.

I'm getting good vibes from this. I'd like to pretend I know what's going on, but I don't. I'm just going to trust Falcone/armlx on this one.

Still happy with my Fritzler vote, though.

[BrianMcQueso]

People On The Armlx Wagon: Logicticus, Don Gaetano, Chamber, Fritzler, Falcone, Shamrock, Snap

People On The Snap Wagon: Falcone, Chamber, Fritzler, Armlx

Now, this tells me two things. Firstly, we've only got a small portion of the town actually playing, no matter what extent their contribution is. Secondly, we've got the same group of people blindly jumping on both wagons. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't hastily jumping bandwagons while providing little to no explanation why a textbook scummy behavior? Why is this practice acceptable?

FoS: people who would rather jump wagons all day instead of having to think

[BrianMcQueso]

Voting Fritzler for bandwagoning is not really very productive, because he does it in every single game he's in, regardless of his alignment, and aside from that, I just don't see what he did wrong. He was on the Twomz bandwagon, but as I said before, it would have been more remarkable if he hadn't been, and I'm more suspicious of the people who voted for Twomz after the deadline was set.

Just because he always does it doesn't make it right. His behavior isn't helping the town. And neither does...

I wasn't going to defend myself, just claim, but uh, just extend what Falcone said.

Fritzler, I stated a mild accusation against you. I'm not convinced you're scum by any margin. I'm not joking in saying that I find you suspicious. I put my accusation out there not to get a claim out of you, but so that you would defend yourself against it so that I could get a better feel to whether you're pro-town or not. Your claim, regardless of what it is, wouldn't help me too much in figuring out what side you're on. I'm not asking you to reveal your role, I'm asking you to contribute to the discussion. You know,

play the game

.

This is what's going on in almost all the games on this board, and I'm really getting tired of it. It's no longer "See who looks suspicious, and lynch based on behavior", it's "Bandwagon until we get a claim, decide if we like it, and either lynch or move on to another claim." There's more to this game than what our roles say.

People who are also voting for Fritzler: take a moment and think about why you're doing so. While I appreciate the sign that you believe in what I'm saying, if you're just following me because it's easy or you want someone to claim that isn't yourself, then you're in the same boat he is.

[/soapbox]

[BrianMcQueso]

Damn BMQ making me post, who do you think you are, mith?

I wish.

I don't think you're joking, I've played with you enough to know when you're serious (at least mildly). I'm glad to know its mild and you still <3 me. And if you really want, I'll try and defend myself, and "play the game." W/E

The "joking" part was actually addressed to Falcone's comment (post 302). I still love ya, Fritz, I just wish people would talk more.

I'll tell you, the funnest part of a game for me is uncovering the setup, and our role.

I really enjoy that part of the game, too. But when it's the

only

part of the game, that's when I don't like it as much. Not as much as I like oats.

Damn right get off of that soap box, you think you're better then everyone just because you don't have a gorilla sized wang?

I'm damn proud I don't have a gorilla-sized wang.

Honestly, I didn't believe him. Also, I've seen defenses many times blah blah blah etc.

Thanks, that's the kind of posting I'm looking for. 8)

[BrianMcQueso]

I don't think we'll be able to lynch anyone, regardless of anything else, by tomorrow. I'm not even sure what else we can do to even be... productive. Quick deadline, no prods? Yeah, ok.

[BrianMcQueso]

unvote: Fritzler

[BrianMcQueso]

Jedi, I understand what you're getting at. You guys are throwing me a surprise party! ^_^

I, for one, entirely believe Snap's role. Dranko was a mason cop in Duckburg Mafia. I'd see it as likely that he'd add a similar role to this game. [/metagaming]

vote: TSAGod

I wouldn't vote for claimed masons this early, and I wouldn't vote for claimed cops this early. You're doing both. They're both somewhat-confirmable roles, and they both hold a lot of pro-town power.

[BrianMcQueso]

Yep...you guessed it. I gave you a FISH!

Yeah, like they'll have any idea what that's in reference to.

Or was it this?

[BrianMcQueso]

First off, I'm not you. Second off, masons are confirmable by determining who the partner is, but if you're part of a mafia, you can find somebody to be part of the team easily. And you don't really need to say anything if the other dies and turns up as scum other than "it never said we were protown." Thirdly, missing two nightchoices in a row sucks, and as a cop, all you have to say is "x is innocent," and then you can be naive if anybody gets nightkilled and turns up scum. Everything can be easily faked with the help of a mafia.

A masonry claim, this early in the game, is just flat out stupid for the Mafia. Masons are more likely to be shot at by enemy killing groups because masons are usually confirmed innocents. If either "mason" dies and is revealed as mafia, I can't think of a single thing the other one could try to say to us that would stop us from lynching them. I don't think the scum would hand the town a two-for-one coupon on a silver platter like that.

If anti-town roles were going to fake a cop claim, they'd pack investigations along with it. Fake guilty investigations on people they'd want to lynch, fake innocent investigations on townies they'd like to have on their side, that kind of thing. Not having an investigation draws attention to itself, which the mafia doesn't want. Why would a mafioso choose "I don't have an investigation" over the much safer lie "(Name) is innocent"?

All in all, a mason-cop is one of the roles most likely be nightkilled. Why would anyone want to

pretend

to be that?

[BrianMcQueso]

I'd

hope

that we'd get alignment on death, but you raise a valid point. Usually if the mod isn't going to reveal alignment on death they'd say so... but then again Dranko is kinda funkular like that. I could see the Mailman being a Serial Killer, for instance.

[BrianMcQueso]

Whatever the mechanics of the cop side of his role - Snap is claiming here to be a mason in a group of 2. One revealed mason and one hidden mason is actually better for the town than two revealed masons - it presents the mafia with a dilemma. Do they kill the claimed mason, confirm the masonry's presence and give an unknown player a simple way to clear themselves, or do they keep the claimed mason alive hoping that the second mason will be forced out to support the first?

You're right... except for one small thing. If the Mafia kills the revealed mason without knowing the identity of the concealed mason, the Mafia can later counterclaim to be the hidden mason.

The thing is (and this is directed toward Chamber), if Snap is lying, he will probably be revealed without being lynched when he's killed tonight, assuming a doctor doesn't protect him. Whether Snap is telling the truth or not, other killing groups would still take a shot at him, thinking he's a cop. Masons never live long, and if Snap continues to live for a while, then we'll take another look at him.

In the end, you're still pushing way too hard to lynch a claimed cop (on Day 2!) which is Just. Plain. Dumb.

vote: chamber

[BrianMcQueso]

I'd like to tweak that last part to "lynch a claimed cop or get him to reveal another cop". Either way, it's still foolish.

[BrianMcQueso]

Man, I hate vigilantes.

[BrianMcQueso]

Man, I hate vigilantes.

Let me rephrase.

Man, I hate vigilantes because not only are they a pro-town role that can screw over the town, but because it's a relatively safe claim for a killing group to claim because they can also kill who they claim they're going to kill. Day vigilantes are a notable exception because anti-town roles are (almost) never given day-kill privileges and thus a day vigilante can confirm their inncocence.

[BrianMcQueso]

I've seen day-vig scum (Looney Tunes Mafia).

Hmm, thanks for bringing that one up.

[BrianMcQueso]

If there are two kills tonight, we need to take another look at him of course.

I'd gather, based on past experience, that there would be more than one killing group in a game this size. While our recent history would suggest otherwise, I think it'd be wiser to chalk that up to a lucky doctor or roleblocking than only one killing group.

Of course, now that I've said that, there's only going to end up being one killing group just so I look like a fool.

[BrianMcQueso]

I got yo back, Bigg Dranks.

Vote Count:

3 Snap - (armlx, chamber, TSAGod)
2 Fritzler - (TSAGod, JediKnight)
1 VitaminR - (Don Gaetano)
1 Falcone - (Blackberry)
6 Chamber - (VitaminR, Sineish, BrianMcQueso, Shamrock, Snap, Fritzler)

[BrianMcQueso]

...did you send out prods, Dranko? Or is this one of those things where you said you did but you didn't. Because yeah.

[BrianMcQueso]

Let me ask for some clarification:

You're claim a cop variant.
You don't get to choose who you investigate.
What do you mean by "follow"?

[BrianMcQueso]

You're claim a cop variant.

P.S. Bow down to my superior grammar.

[BrianMcQueso]

Peculiar. So, do we test the cop-ish type of investigation? Or do we deem it unreliable and move on with lynching Chamber? I'm content to do either... or both.

[BrianMcQueso]

I like the you FOS me cause I FOS'd you...nice touch...

I didn't FOS you.

... and you (jedi) didn't FOS me

That's his point.

[BrianMcQueso]

(I don't know what I'm talking about.)

[BrianMcQueso]

Reading back, this caught my eye:

I actually think we shouldn't lynch VitaminR today, let's wait and see what happens tonight.

Back in my day, we lynched the scum. I'm not exactly sure how waiting another night helps you, Don... or any of us (well, I could see how it helps VitaminR).

[BrianMcQueso]

I do trust Brian...cause I have my reasons. My role also knows, or thinks that he knows apparently but could have forgotten some key details, that there are a set of mason cops. Be advised...I am not one of the two mason cops. But that makes me trust Snap. And makes me want to smack him in the head for neglecting to turn in his choice if he is indeed who he says he is. Strykkerverde is mostly confirmed for now because he was able to do what he set out to do.

Just re-posting this for my own sake.

Yesterday, we also had something going down regarding Vitamin getting tracked or something. Should we pick up on that now? (Looks like Fritzler already has.)

vote: VitaminR

[BrianMcQueso]

However, looks like the best move is to string the scum up.

Thank you, Ariel, for that brilliant flash of insight.

[BrianMcQueso]

Ouch.

Well, now that I've got nothing left to lose, I'll claim. I'm a Day Vigilante. I've got two bullets, and two ways to fire them. The first way is by posting in-thread that I kill someone. This method of killing does not end the day. The second way is by PMing the mod. This method DOES end the day. Obviously, I haven't used either one yet.

I've hinted at my role a little bit in past posts, but at this point, it doesn't really matter if you believe me or not, because I'm going to go out with a bang.

Town, consider us to have three lynches available to us today. Once someone gets close to lynch, I'll shoot them and we can continue without Mafia kills. I've got two bullets, you've got one piece of rope. Let's get three bad guys, yeah? 8)

[BrianMcQueso]

No, I can use either kill method for each kill. I could end the game twice (in theory) or I could daykill twice, or one of each.

[BrianMcQueso]

Fritzler, I can post in-thread and kill twice. Or I can PM the mod twice. Or I can do one of each.

...I'm not sure how I can explain it any simpler.

[BrianMcQueso]

ps sorry i didn't talk to you last night strykker Sad

Oh, so

that's

how you found out my role. I'm glad Strykker, whom I trusted, would willingly blab that information to anyone, especially if he couldn't be sure they were pro-town.

[BrianMcQueso]

Oh.

[BrianMcQueso]

I'm with Fritzler on this one. We haven't lost any other townies, and nobody asked you to claim.

*aims*

[BrianMcQueso]

If you guys really think I should shoot edion, vote for him. I'd rather use these shots democratically than... well, whatever would motivate Fritzler. Besides, this way, if we end up with dead innocents, we can look at who wanted them dead besides me (since I'm about to be confirmed innocent by the end of this day anyway).

[BrianMcQueso]

i therefore shut my own mouth for the remander of the game beyond constructive observation and vote.

I think education is the best solution here. Edion, I'm willing to consider sparing you, for now, on two conditions. Firstly, do you understand why we are pressuring you in the first place? Explain to me why we want to kill you. Secondly, do you understand why the above quote is neither helpful to the game nor beneficial to your case that you're an innocent townie?

[BrianMcQueso]

Also, I'd appreciate it if someone else claimed vanilla townie, but that's probably asking too much.

[BrianMcQueso]

oh, and something tells me to vote: no lynch, but i'm not sure what...

So, I give the town the opportunity for three lynches without a scum kill in between, and you'd rather have zero?

A claim is a valuable piece of information. While it's noble to want to help the town, it also helps the scum. Now that they know you aren't a cop or doctor, it makes it easier for them to find the power roles. Role information should generally be kept secret unless you are about to die (from being lynched.... or in my case) or that you have information that would immensely benefit the town (a cop investigation that turned up guilty, or you roleblocked someone and there was no deaths, etc.) You claimed vanilla townie, which is a highly suspicious claim because it's the easiest for a scum to fake, and you did it when nobody asked you to. Sorry man, but none of this adds up into you being townly.

KILL: edion0

[BrianMcQueso]

DO IT

[BrianMcQueso]

Por que?

[BrianMcQueso]

Because you were sooo good on the last one.

[BrianMcQueso]

Good job, Fritzler.

P.S. I am away for weekend until Monday.

[BrianMcQueso]

Man, I can't believe I missed out on so much.

[BrianMcQueso]

Perhaps we do have a half-doctor... however, I think talking about it can help the scum figure out who it is. On the other hand, if it's a half-killer, they can easily just play dumb and pretend they know nothing about it, which wouldn't really help us either. While I appreciate the motion to build up discussion, I don't think this is the right path to go down.

[BrianMcQueso]

That's just my opinion, obviously. If other people want to discuss it, I'll join in, but with my life ticking away, I've got bigger fish to fry.

[BrianMcQueso]

Thanks.

By the way, I'd like to remind the town that we've had one scum death so far. Those aren't exactly wonderful odds for us.

[BrianMcQueso]

Something about this whole Shamrock thing doesn't seem right. The cop claim is fairly unbelieveable, and take a look at how this bandwagon started-- over his inactivity. This really doesn't seem to add up in my book.

Look, town, we're really on the ropes now. We can't afford to mislynch so easily. This is over something so little. All of you have just posted "Yeah, vote shamrock, whatever" without thinking, explaining, or anything. If you're really bent on wanting him dead, then explain to me why. I feel like the Mafia is playing us like a fiddle right now.

[BrianMcQueso]

You know what's scummy?

LynchAllLiars

[BrianMcQueso]

kill: Dukester

Another learning experience. Don't lie to the town.

HECK, you didnt' even vote for me at first... you beat around the bush by saying stuff like well how come you were only suspicious at first and crap like that.

When someone suspects you, that doesn't automatically make the person who suspects you scum. Shamrock understands this. Just because you suspected him doesn't mean he has to suspect you back. Also, in larger games like this one, there's the issue of cop sanity, that is, cops can't be 100% sure their results are correct (more information about this can be found in the Wiki under Cop).

But seriously, if Dukester isn't scum, we're in deep shit.

[BrianMcQueso]

vote: Dukester

[BrianMcQueso]

It's that kind of attitude that was the biggest contributing factor to my desire to kill you.

[BrianMcQueso]

A thought: if my second shot wounds but doesn't kill, could it be half-protection? There is no mention in my role of my shots being anything other than lethal. Perhaps it's a doctor protection that permanently sets up this "wounded" barrier instead?

[BrianMcQueso]

Dukester will likely die at the end of the day. Still, I'm not sure how many casualties you guys can afford to lose since you're losing another innocent as well (me). Lynching him is the same as no lynching at this point, and this way we're already almost there.

You guys need some serious crossfire tonight. If the scum start killing each other, you might have a chance.

It was a pleasure shooting you all, but I think this will be my last post of the game, unless something incredible develops.

Go town!

[BrianMcQueso]

I've grown tired of living.

[BrianMcQueso]

We do it because we've probably had enough deaths today. Lynching either myself or Dukester is essentially the same as no-lynching. However, I have realized (and Shamrock probably has to) that at this point it's simply easier to lynch Dukester than to try to start some other plan that will have exactly the same result.

Fritzler: Again, why Ariel?
Blackberry: Why are you defending Dukester and attacking Shamrock when it is widely believed that Dukester is scum? If Duke does turn up scum, I advise the town to look at Berry. It doesn't prove his guilt, but it's suspicious.

P.S. Why am I, a soon-to-be-dead-man who has given up on today, still posting more than most players in this game?

[BrianMcQueso]

Just think about this: Would a mafia member really make the mistake of fake role-claiming to try and kill a townie?

Yes. They would.

I think you're all frikkin crazy. I fully believe Shamrock to be innocent, and the scum is having such an easy time pulling all of your strings.

[BrianMcQueso]

"because of his recent behavior"

Please elaborate-- this is the same line that I've seen scum use to get townies lynched. Players, unwilling to go back and actually look for any behavior, oftentimes take the word that there was "suspicious behavior" and just lynch blindly.

[BrianMcQueso]

The burden is on shamrock to prove that he is not mafia.

That is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Guilty until proven innocent, eh? I'm glad I shot you. It's this kind of faulty reasoning that's misleading the town. Tell me why Shamrock is mafia; he

can't

defend himself if you're

not giving him anything to defend against

.

EDIT: I know I'm not suppose to edit my posts, but the formatting was all wrong. Sorry 'bout that.

[BrianMcQueso]

Dukester, I'm not sure how I'm not explaining this clearly. Shamrock isn't defending himself because you haven't accused him of anything other than not defending himself. You're running in circles!

Three other people are voting for him because they are blindly following you. But if you have no reason to your bandwagon, then they have no reason to follow. The ends don't justify the means.

You are the scummiest player I have ever met. You accuse him of something he can't defend himself against because it has no substance. You use circular logic and don't address the points. And, for some reason, other people follow you. Perhaps it's because they're your scum buddies? You know you're a dead man, so you're trying to drag him down with you, and you're becoming frustrated that some people (myself) aren't buying into your sleaze.

[BrianMcQueso]

Not lynching you is the same as lynching you. *waits for deadline*

I'll be gone all day tomorrow, for the record. And I'll be dead by in-game tomorrow. So, uh, goodbye.