Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[q21]

Vote: I Am Innocent

Because the name makes me think he's trying to hide something...

Parama - Hot potato being essentially a timer you can pass around that does something untoward to the person holding it when the timer runs out?

[q21]

giving the antitown roles to the most antitown player is like giving the Joker a tank. (it isn't though.)

Yes it is.

You give the scummiest player roles that can hurt the town, and he's GOING TO USE THEM TO HURT THE TOWN. Very simple. Yes, it means we can get rid of all of them in one fell swoop, but that's assuming that NONE of the scum got a roleblock, a doctor, a redirector, or anything of that ilk, which I find unlikely.

I do think that getting rid of anti-town roles, including the treestump, is a good idea (obviously); however, I definitely feel it's too risky to attach all the anti-town roles to one player who we find scummy. It might work if we give it to a person who we can agree is NOT mafia, because they wouldn't use it on the town. Of course, that opens up a whole other host of issues. However, I think we should deal with those anti-town roles later; we need to start off with just plain old scumhunting. I can't think of a reason to do anything differently than we would in a normal mafia game, barring some pretty interesting role stuff.

PREVIEW EDIT: I like Magna's idea, with the cycle of confirmation. It seems intelligent, certainly.

No. I was thinking about this but then realized that scum would have no time to use their ability. After Night 1 ends, they'd have the ability passed to them. Day 2, we lynch the player. Problem solved, ability is out of play as the player is now dead, N2 never commenced for him, so he could never use his abilities, excluding the possibility of them being day abilities. (We probably shouldn't pass those on.) Therefore, we SHOULD pass it onto a scummy player, then lynch him the next day.

You're not paying attention. You know how I know you're not paying attention? The whole discussion about getting rid of anti town roles was started by the only anti town role we know anything about so far... a role which makes the person holding it unlynchable.

Hello everyone.

Based on my initial readthrough the idea of passing antitown roles to someone scummy seems like a fairly good idea. Parama's hot potato thing is ...rather interesting.

Also, my role says something about a virus being unleashed. Should I fullclaim?

Also

Vote: Quadz08

. Early scummy vibes from him on that terrible "scumslip" catch, not to mention one on a claimed fairly powerful PR.

You're also not paying attention. Your point here is nullified by the fact when you made this post Parama had, quite publicly, announced that he no longer had the role anyway, having passed the bomb to muh. Not to mention the fact that having a role, even a powerful townie one, isn't evidence of towniness in this game from what I can tell. I think you're either trying to defend Parama (a theory which may become more viable after we see a potential muh flip) or you're trying to force suspicion on quadz.

I also have an issue with your jump to wrathchild. When you vote quadz is looks like you're taking that vote fairly seriously, then you vote wrathchild for not revoting after he unvoted. It's a weak reason for a vote anyway and an even moreso as a reason to change your vote. Especially with nothing from quadz in between to explain a potential lessening of suspicion. My thought is that you didn't like that your quadz vote had gotten attention from MoI..

Unvote, Vote diddin.

[q21]

Comments from a quick readup from my last post.

You're not paying attention. You know how I know you're not paying attention? The whole discussion about getting rid of anti town roles was started by the only anti town role we know anything about so far... a role which makes the person holding it unlynchable.

I never agreed that the stump was anti-town. It isn't important enough to worry about until the end, as lylo isn't going to happen for quite a long time, now is it? But thanks for being a pompous ass. It's not as if there might be any other anti-town abilities floating about. And once again, why are we even discussing this? Have we not agreed to MoI's plan?

True, you didn't specify the stump as one of the antitown roles you were talking about, but you didn't exclude it either and given that the stump is where that line of conversation began I think it was perfectly valid of me to take the view that you were including it in your definition of anti town roles. Also, pompous assery is a talent of mine.

You're also not paying attention. Your point here is nullified by the fact when you made this post Parama had, quite publicly, announced that he no longer had the role anyway, having passed the bomb to muh. Not to mention the fact that having a role, even a powerful townie one, isn't evidence of towniness in this game from what I can tell. I think you're either trying to defend Parama (a theory which may become more viable after we see a potential muh flip) or you're trying to force suspicion on quadz.

Uhh.
What difference does it make if Parama had passed it? The ability still came from him. Therefore, I see no problem with him referring to it as Parama's ability. Null point.

The point what that diddin was attacking quaddz for his attack on Parama because Parama had a supposedly powerful town role, except that Parama no longer had that role, therefore that reason for diddin's attack was contrived.

I'm not a fan of the back and forth WIFOM between quadz and Parama at the end of page 6/beginning of page 7. Firstly, wifom is useless in general and secondly, that argument seems a little disingenuous.

Diddin's "catch" of WraithChild is horrible.

If Prama was town then I find it hard to believe that town ALSO has a daykill and him asking if its ok if he shot WC seems pretty fishy.

So is Prama scum or is Diddin scum? Or are they both town?

I myself get major scum vibes from CKD.

unvote;vote:CKD

So, says nothing about CKD until he has some mysterious scum vibes and then votes him. Scummy. Not helped by the fact that your explanations are hypocritical.

VOTE: pops

themanhimself

would you consider revoting pops with me? you voted him in #125...
I also see EtherealCookie as scum, someone you voted in I believe #185... I could get behind you on this, but I am much more worried about pops as he is really active

Firstly, I agree with most of what you say about pops in #199. I have 2 issues though.

1. Why wait until this post to actually make the vote?
2. The rest of this post is buddying which I find a little scummy.

Parama is just as likely as anyone else to be town. I'm not sure if diddin is scum but I really don't trust him with the dayvig ability right now, I say we see who gets it tomorrow and go off of that. In fact, why don't we vote on who it should go to tomorrow and then if it doesn't go to that person then we have a good scumlink, if it does go to that person then we have it in the hands of someone that most people don't believe is scum. I think Saint is being a little bit over the top but I'll keep that on the back burner for now. I can't tell if wrathchild is just scummy or new but either way he's not being super-helpful. I say we VOTE: Implosion and see what happens. If he's telling the truth then it's null, if he's lying then we either lynched a lying townie or some scum so I don't see a losing scenario there.

This seems like your advocating, essentially, a no lynch Day 1. Which is scummy. This view is, however, ameliorated by the fact that from your later posts it seems that you were genuinely unaware that a majority vote on implosion will supposedly lead to a no lynch. I do not like that you're still voting implosion, though, (essentially voting no lynch).

Okay, have come to a conclusion:
Scum are using me as a target to defend and attack others with. Would it surprise you if I said I've been doing some dumb stuff on purpose?
Wouldn't be shocked if 2 scum are defending me and a third is attacking me.

I would like to know who you think those scums are. Just saying that you think there are some scums interacting with you really isn't enough.

@WrathChild

Hi guys, I'm new here, so forgive me if I don't know the meta or joke-phase protocol, so..

And yet you jumped into a Large Theme Game... Did you even read the Newbie Guide?

HoS

In the midst of what I feel are generally good comments from you is this... its horrible and makes me doubt the sincerity of anything good you've said. Its just such a reach that not viewing you as scummy for it would be, at best, labelling it too scummy to be scum and, at worst, breathtakingly moronic on my part.

Unvote

I still think diddin is scummy, but I'm going to be leaving for a camp in the middle of nowhere first thing tomorrow and don't want my vote sitting on any wagon while I am completely unable to monitor it.

I will be V/LA until Jan 3.

After that I will be read up and should be able to post more regularly as all the christmas distractions will be over. Until then, here are my views/reads so far.

Scum reads: diddin. themanhimself. Nero Cain.

The tree stump role needs to be gotten rid of, of this there can be no doubt. We can't lynch it. We can't rely an any plan to kill it overnight on the basis of a doc/roleblocker/redirector/etc and the fact that we don't even know if there is a town controlled nightkill. I think that we need to take care of it while we have a dayvig and we know where the stump role is because tomorrow (or some other day in the future) we may no longer have a dayvig and might for some reason be unable to find the tree stump. I therefore support diddin killing implosion for all that I don't particularly think that implosion himself is scum.

[q21]

Right, technically I'm back, but I'm 9 pages behind and getting really tired. Rather than read up through bleary eyes and try to make sense of the game I'm going to leave it until tomorrow and then reread the entire thing. Then post like I know what I'm talking about.

[q21]

-Breaking my original post up into pieces because for some reason the site won't let me post the whole thing. I think that means its too long... sorry.


Right, so I've read through the games 22 pages from scratch and biggest feeling at this moment is that my eyes are about to fall out of my head, giving my brain a chance to make a daring break from freedom through the suddenly open eyeballs. BUT! But I am now fully caught up and see no reason why I shouldn't be able to stay that way. Here are my thoughts for the game so far and as someone who dislikes (okay, HATE might be a more accurate word) textwalls I will try to keep this concise, but I make no promises.

The first thing that caught my attention on rereading was this post of diddin's from way back when, which I have, in fact already commented on in this game but I saw something I missed the first time around.

Hello everyone.

Based on my initial readthrough the idea of passing antitown roles to someone scummy seems like a fairly good idea. Parama's hot potato thing is ...rather interesting.

Also, my role says something about a virus being unleashed. Should I fullclaim?

Also

Vote: Quadz08

. Early scummy vibes from him on that terrible "scumslip" catch, not to mention one on a claimed fairly powerful PR.

At the beginning of this post diddin describes Parama's role as "...rather interesting" which to my mind reads as him viewing the role negatively. Later in the post he calls it a fairly powerful town role which seems somewhat at odds to me. All things considered though this is just more fuel on the fire... I already thought diddin was scummy and I don't want to lynch him in the hope that we might be able to preserve his role.


The next thing that I considered while reading was the the explosion of muh. I see Parama as being at no fault whatsoever for that. He had no way of knowing he'd be killing a valuable power role. He passed the bomb early enough that muh had plenty of time to pass it again. The scummy way to play that role would be to keep it until just before its deadline and then nail some unsuspecting sod. I think the bomb incident is a null tell on Parama at most and as such I became suspicious of those who when after him once muh's flip had been announced on account of it seeming scummily opportunistic. Those people are namely Ethereal Cookie (who was seemingly continuing an attack) and Powerox who votes with this post almost immediately after the flip:

With muh flipping town

VOTE: Parama

I'm going to believe muh on that one

Which is incredibly weak given the nature if muh's play. The fact that Powerox revotes Parama at a later stage with this is just as bad or even worse:

powerrox please lay a vote down

[Bad joke]Shouldn't I hammer someone instead?[/Bad joke]

Then I'm going back to my VOTE: Parama that I had before AntB that got modkilled

Lateralus however has given me a very weird vibe since he jumped in this game. Does anyone second that?

No, not yet at least. I've played with him before and he played like this.

-~-~

Also, I don't see how Helgast is scummy

The way he says it like he somehow had a valid reason for voting Parama originally is scummy. He's using his own previous weak vote on Parama as precedent to justify his current vote. He's trying to present this vote as solid when it is in fact build on a foundation made of straw. While there isn't anything else in his posts as genuinely scummy as these two votes I find that there is also nothing that even remotely resemble a redeeming quality in any of his posts.

As for EC, the fact that he hasn't voted for anyone but Parama all game is a little off-putting. He's been updating his justification for that vote and while I feel that his justifications are largely wrong I get it at least shows that he's trying. Thing is, it could be trying to find scum, or it could be trying to look like he's scumhunting. I wouldn't oppose his vigging and would probably support his lynch. I realise that this probably amounts to fence sitting on EC, but there are others I'm more interested in and would rather commit myself to those than take a cast iron stance on EC.

[q21]

-Part 2

Another topic to weigh in on is Wrathchild. Personally I've read his "I understand why you want to vig/lynch me so go ahead" posts as appeals to emotion every time he's made them. I can appreciate that he's had limited time to post (hell, I've had zero chance to post for over a weak) but he's spent the posts he has had either in those appeals to emotion I've mentioned or trying to forge himself a defence rather than trying to help the town at all. If he doesn't pick up his actually contribution to town winning this game he's in the next day or so then I'm all for vigging him.

The tree stump role needs to be gotten rid of, of this there can be no doubt. We can't lynch it. We can't rely an any plan to kill it overnight on the basis of a doc/roleblocker/redirector/etc and the fact that we don't even know if there is a town controlled nightkill. I think that we need to take care of it while we have a dayvig and we know where the stump role is because tomorrow (or some other day in the future) we may no longer have a dayvig and might for some reason be unable to find the tree stump. I therefore support diddin killing implosion for all that I don't particularly think that implosion himself is scum.

The fact that its essentially a voteless role

IS

a bummer and would deff be harmful to the town in end game but unkillable could be useful. So advocating getting rid of a role that couldn't be killed doesn't seem exactly pro-town to me.

++++assuming that implosion is telling the truth he's unkillable therefore Diddin's kill would not work. You JUST got done blastin' TMM for wanting a "no lynch" but you want a "no kill".

I did blast themanhimself for wanting a no lynch, which he deserved. I did not, at any time, advocate a "no-kill" on account of implosion having claimed to be unlynchable not unkillable. Point refuted.

What do you think of tmh?

I haven't got any really scummy vibes from him but I don't like how Q21 blasted him for wanting a "no lynch" while he himself wanted a "no kill". So it made me think TMH might be town if Q21 flips scum.

Again, this based on a falsehood. He isn't directly calling me scum via that falsehood, but he is, obliquely at least, suggesting it.
And to preempt this question being redirected to me - as I will admit it rightly should be given my last two comments.

assuming that implosion is telling the truth he's unkillable therefore Diddin's kill would not work.

Not so. I believe that implosion has declared unlynchable, not unkillable.

Yeah yeah yeah. So I missed it. He clarified it. Why are you making it out into a big deal? And why are you not worried about CHK and I AM who supposedly missed it as well?

It was not something that was said and you failed to see, therefore stating that you missed it is incorrect. What you did was create, either consciously or subconsciously, the idea of implosion being unkillable by extrapolating inaccurately from what he did say. And then using that to imply that I am scummy.
As for I Am Innocent and chkflip, yes they both misunderstood the role, but not in the same manner you did - there misunderstanding is actually understandable as it is based on the way a treestump role often works. Also, they didn't use that misunderstanding to insinuate that someone else was scummy, which I feel you have done. I bringing up IAI and CHK I get the impression that you are trying to group yourself with other plays who you know are generally viewed as more townie than yourself in order to make your error seem less that is truly is.

Even if you give passes to URoE, LynchMePls, and Snake (URoE hasn't and probably won't confirm, the other two have said they'll be V/LA for a couple more days yet), we've still got ten players here who are making posts and not throwing down a vote. What gives? WC, Helghast, quadz, chkflip, Magna, q21, theman, ckd, Power... I'm looking at y'all. By the way, of this group, Helghast is the only one who hasn't ever cast a vote (and he still hasn't even after I called him out for it earlier), but, if you throw out RVS, I don't think Magna, chkflip, and WC have made an "actual" vote yet either.

I must pint out that I take exception to this, I was V/LA and had announced such in thread, quite clearly.



Right, anything else I might say at this point would be parroting and I seem to have left my parrot suit in my other pants... also this post is getting long enough as is. I think that with 9 days left until what is at the moment a tentative deadline I feel comfortable in voting who I feel most strongly is scum rather than voting on one of the more established bandwagons, therefore:

Vote Powerrox93

Other scum reads at the moment: Nero Cain. diddin. Less so, themanhimself and EC.

Since I think it would be remiss not to comment on the leading bandwagon of the moment: On my reread of the thread I kept seeing people pointing at Helgast as scummy without actually seeing a lot in the way of scumminess from him. It would be nice if he posts more in the way of reads and his reticence to vote is a little vexing but just as likely (if not moreso) to be a playstyle issue as a scumtell. Personally I think we, as a town would do better to lynch someone genuinely scummy (like Powerrox) that some who's only real fault is that they aren't playing particularly townie manner rather than that they're playing scummily.

[q21]

Looking back it isn't that long... I don't know what the problem was.

[q21]

lateralus - at the moment my feeling is that the next person to die should be powerrox, regardless of the manner. If diddin is going to force a choice between helgast and WC, then WC.

[q21]

I must pint out that I take exception to this, I was V/LA and had announced such in thread, quite clearly.

I didn't realize that. I don't go back to check on V/LA's usually. For what it's worth, I like these two posts of yours with one caveat... Why did you not talk about Helghast at all? You addressed almost everything besides that.

Question: Did you read my posts OR did you skim read my post? I ask because:

Since I think it would be remiss not to comment on the leading bandwagon of the moment: On my reread of the thread I kept seeing people pointing at Helgast as scummy without actually seeing a lot in the way of scumminess from him. It would be nice if he posts more in the way of reads and his reticence to vote is a little vexing but just as likely (if not moreso) to be a playstyle issue as a scumtell. Personally I think we, as a town would do better to lynch someone genuinely scummy (like Powerrox) that some who's only real fault is that they aren't playing particularly townie manner rather than that they're playing scummily.

Also, Powerrox's posts since my vote for him are scummy. He completely ignores my vote and the question asked of him by Magna and instead wastes his time with inane statements of Helgast's innocence. I mean, sure I don't find Helgast particularly scummy either, but simply saying you don't think he's scummy over and over again isn't going to achieve anything. Neither do I see anything to warrant such ardent defence of Helgast. Also, you've said that you want someone to explain why he's scummy, implying that you feel no case has been made against him... but before that you said that you didn't agree with the case against him.

[q21]

Disagree SC. Powerrox isn't better at all. He's scummier. Helghast is under suspicion for, as far as I can tell, not doing anything. Power is scummy for making scummy votes and posts. In my view doing scummy things is scummier than not doing anything.

[q21]

You mean you don't see it as in you don't agree with the case brought against him, or you don't see it as in the attacks aren't valid whatsoever?

I don't agree with the case brought against him.

@Mod:

Was UnofficialRulerOfEveryone supposed to be replaced?

-snip-

Literally every one of his posts after this is "Could someone state the actual case on Helghast?" which no one ever did and we ended up with a misvig. I don't see asking for a case to be distancing from a mislynch at all, he said he didn't see him as scummy but opened up the opportunity for someone to change his mind several times and no one did.

The nested quote from power kinda breaks the argument that he was looking for a case to be presented. He said that he didn't agree with the case, which means that in his mind a case was indeed presented. It, in fact, makes his later posts about wanting someone to put up a case contradictory and scummy.

And even without his actions around the vig, he's scummy. You, yourself admitted in the post I've quoted sections of above that power's Parama votes were scummy. What you don't seem to have done is look at those two votes together. His second Parama vote uses the first as justification. Justifying a vote with a previous, scummy vote compounds the scumminess hugely. He's scum, and you're either blind, or defending a buddy. Your no lynch comment supports the second opinion and I may yet be tempted to vote for you.

How many times did we agree I was shooting people with a lot of votes (hint: not EC)? How many times did I say I didn't want someone else to claim and potentially out a stronger power role? It's like I'm talking to someone and whenever I make a point they stick their fingers in their ear and go LALALALALALA YOU'RE WRONG YOU'RE WRONG

How many time? Never. We never agreed that you were shooting people with alot of votes. You actually never mentioned votes when limiting who you wanted shot. Ever. The first time you mentioned that you weren't going to shoot anyone outside Helghast or WC (ISO 20) they were on 3 and 2 votes respectively, EC was on... also 2. When you said it again (ISO 29) the only change in that situation was that Helghast had gotten 1 more vote.

[q21]

@IAI: How about you post your own content instead of just QFTing posts you agree with?

I also already said I didn't want to force another claim. I already had two popular candidates for vigging who claimed (I believe WC and Helghast had both claimed at the time. Feel free to correct me) no power. I did not want to risk outing a powerful town PR. I don't know how many times I've explained it.

Straight after your vig happened when asked why you limited you targets to WC and Helghast you said it was because we'd decided to only use your vig on people with lots of votes. We hadn't. You had, in fact, never mentioned votes with regard to your vig. Why did you bring them up then?

[q21]

Right, so it's gotten to the point in the day where I'm happy to just go:

MOAR POWERROX VOTES PLEASE!

And be done with it.

[q21]

I passed my ability on.
MoI passed his ability to me. It is clear what ability he had.

Explain how this is possible if MoI died which should have happened before any ability cycling went on.



TMH passed his power to diddin it seems, therefore they cannot be scum together. Both, though, are scummy, but there is the potential to clear (at least mostly) one by lynching the other. TMH is currently in possession of a very protown power, for all that he gave it to himself, and diddin is in possession of a proscum power. Therefore I'm going to start the day with a diddin vote.

Vote diddin

[q21]

Question - Does the potato go off after a set number of posts in the day or after a certain player has held if for a set number of posts?


Parama - You're calling me scum for my post count? I was very busy around Christmas and entirely out of access for more than a week after Christmas, which I duly announced in thread beforehand. Since returning I've averaged more than a posts a day and have spent those posts contributing to the game.

[q21]

Oh yeah thanks for reminding me, q21.
EVERYONE CLAIMS WHO THEY PASSED THEIR POWER TO LAST NIGHT.

This is stupid, Parama. If we do this the scum gets a nice neat list of all the people to kill if they want to get rid of a power.

[q21]

And we get a nice neat list of people who cannot be scum together~

We get a much similar list if people say on day 3 who they passed to last night without helping the scum take powers out of the game.

[q21]

Sorry for the disappearance. I had a suddenly and unexpectedly spectacular weekend.

First order of business: I had an ability. I passed it.

@IAI 991; Treestumping tmh tomorrow is a good idea. It could both get rid of the treestump and (bonus) assuming tmh is scum (which I am about 99% sure of)

it can confirm curiouskarmadog's alignment; if he fails to treestump tmh, he's mafia. If the treestump dies with tmh, he's town.

What do people think about this plan?

-snip-

Other miscellaneous question: should tmh claim who he passed the busdriving ability to and/or whoever has the ability claim that they have it? Not only is it an incredibly antitown ability, but this could lead to yet another confirmed townie. In fact, can anyone think of

any

pro-town reason for the busdriving ability to exist, or should it be passed to tmh tonight as well?

I like the put forward here, especially since tmh already claimed who he passed his ability to... diddin. Doing this could actually get us a decent set of confirmation data. Its actually enough that I'm willing to relent in my desire to see diddin swing for the moment.

Unvote

So, where to put my vote now. Based on current interest, Darla's name comes to the fore. So I looked her up a bit. Her first post is basically an apology for not posting anything meaningful by reason of computer fail and ends with this:

ANYWAYS. Again, with the delays, apologies and a post is being typed up now with my actual content.

That post that was apparently being typed up never materialised. Instead we got excuses.

Her votes this game:
Helghast - Already at 5 votes. Didn't add much of anything herself.
Power - Already at 6. Again didn't add anything.
Bunny - Already at 2 votes. Not as much of a bandwagon hop as her previous, but given the sudden interest that had surrounded Bunny's misunderstanding of cycling (and I do read it as a misunderstanding rather than a scumslip) and given the fact that she couldn't really vote the leading wagon since it was her own... And again, added nothing.

Three poor votes make up the entirety of her vote history and while reading through her doctor explanation thing I saw this (bolding is mine):

I protected the person I felt was most at risk of a kill and who had been contributing a lot to the town. I missed it, maybe, who knows. we could have more than one PR with kill ability (or more than 2 - whatever) I am not going to ANSWER FOR NOT PROTECTING THE PERSON WHO DIEDDDDD!!11 and let that be used as evidence against me. there were 20 something choices my odds of

picking the right person to kill

werent that great but I did the best with what I could - and then passed the power along to someone I felt comfortable with and got a strong town read on.

(still on phone reading page 40 now, will comment on 41 in a sec)

Given the rest of her play my thought here was simple. Scumslip.

Vote DarlaBlueEyes

[q21]

IAI - Diddin did state in thread if I remember correctly.

[q21]

IAI - Diddin did state in thread if I remember correctly.

Yes that was the criteria for D1, but a bomb every day to activate the vig was not something I expected, or would have N1. Did you?

Given that we cycle the roles around I expect that each role I pass to someone will be exactly the same as when I had it, therefore I expect each role to work identically each day/night.

[q21]

RC - what you seem to be missing is that theman actually passed his ability to diddin. Sure, it makes perfect sense for scum to be able to target other scum with an ability, but they can't pass that ability to another scum. They can't be scum of the same faction.

The one problem that occurs to me is that we had two kills last night. Unless someone comes forward with a vig claim we could be letting a SK or second faction a free walk.

PREVIEW EDIT: I encourage her to put some ketchup on that bomb and chow down.

[q21]

nhamen's ridiculously long post

And what is it exactly I'm missing?
I'd like to claim #3, for the record, but I am not claiming my recipient.
Also, why do you have interest in me yet interest for people who are interested in lynching my slot and it flipping town? Just the sheer ignorance of imagining a town flip seems ridiculous. Let's imagine a scum one.

I disagree with my hydra's read on you recently. Your posting feels pretty pro-town. Is that how you play as scum? If you're that good as scum, I would consider lynching you based upon your unreadability.

I don't get the last sentence of your first paragraph... I read it and reread it and it still doesn't make much sense. As for the second paragraph... are you really trying to construct a too townie argument againt nhamen? Because that's what it looks like.

@nhamm: Thanks for reminding me of that question, I missed it lol.
@Pops: I think its because I believe Saint is scum, while on DBE I don't believe it yet. Would I cry if DBE dies, no I wouldn't.
@I am Innocent: 3) Someone Else.

I'd like reasoning for this
Are you familiar with my play?
Do you realize I go the extra mile as town?
Are you familiar with my vehement scum-meta and easy-readability?

I am by far NOT a policy lynch, and you WILL NOT gain any traction on this.
I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY I'M POSTING THIS!

I do not remember anyone saying anything about a policy lynch of you, certainly I don't see it in the post you've quoted here. So far as I can see it the policy lynch point here is a blatant strawman. All scummy. I now list Saint as people I think are scum.

Someone tell me what's wrong with this picture.
*Parama is being called Extremely Town by everyone. (okay, what's wrong other than that)
*DBE claims to have passed the Doctor to Parama.
*Parama wants to die Today, specifically by the Virus.

She said she protected Parama, not that she passed her ability to Parama.

Preview Edit: Ninja'd by LMP on the last point... but screw it.

[q21]

She never at any point intended to eat the virus.

QFT.


Maybe this time it'll go off on her.

[q21]

And now we wait for the mod for the flip.

[q21]

I like the fact that you point out that you haven't voted. Aren't votes the most powerful tool townies have? Don't they lead to VC analysis? Wouldn't scum want to be left off of VC analysis? (credit goes to MoI for teaching me these things in Secret Invasion Mafia).

Vote I am Innocent

A quick scan through IAI's ISO show's 5 votes made throughout the course of the game. Given how easy it is to check this out I don't like how happily you seemed to have jumped on it. You obviously misread something by IAI if you thought he said he hadn't voted. I'd expect a townie to check that out first, I'd expect a scum to jump on it in eagerness to press another point against your chosen target.

[q21]

Now at Page 30. Current standings:

SCUM

*RC
*q21 - Was kind enough to commit a personal scumtell. He only seems to show up to keep pushing the drama around; I'm looking for his posts as they come and each time I'm like "is that it?". He also managed to take E-Cookie from his top scumspect to his fifth behind four of my Town reads in 546.
*4 Other people.
*EtherealCookie/nhammen - nhammen's catchup post wasn't convincing but not really damning either. I don't like dropping E-Cookie so low but the people above need to get called out.

I show up when I can and when I post I generally try to contribute. If that results in pushing a few people's buttons and, as you call it, pushing the drama around, so be it.
I NEVER at an point in this game have had EtherealCookie as my "top scumspect". Never. In my last post before going V/LA (263) I didn't even suspect him enough to list him as a scumread. In 546/547 I do list him as a scumread, albeit a lesser one - if anything, that's a promotion up my scumlist, not dropping him down it.
But even if I did do exactly what you said I did, dropping EC down my scum list in favour of other suspects, lets have a look at what you've just done. Oh, you've just dropped EC (replaced by nhammen) from position 1 to position 7... demoting him down your scumlist in favour of other suspects... even further down than I allegedly did. Not only have you misrepped me with regard to my EC suspicion, you're a hypocrite too.

[q21]

I show up when I can and when I post I generally try to contribute. If that results in pushing a few people's buttons and, as you call it, pushing the drama around, so be it.
I NEVER at an point in this game have had EtherealCookie as my "top scumspect". Never. In my last post before going V/LA (263) I didn't even suspect him enough to list him as a scumread. In 546/547 I do list him as a scumread, albeit a lesser one - if anything, that's a promotion up my scumlist, not dropping him down it.
But even if I did do exactly what you said I did, dropping EC down my scum list in favour of other suspects, lets have a look at what you've just done. Oh, you've just dropped EC (replaced by nhammen) from position 1 to position 7... demoting him down your scumlist in favour of other suspects... even further down than I allegedly did. Not only have you misrepped me with regard to my EC suspicion, you're a hypocrite too.

This argument is retarded for reasons that should be obvious, but.
1) Again, you only show up when it's personally convenient - either to maintain the status quo or to defend yourself in this case. Nothing pro-Town about it.
2) Oh dear, I dropped EC down.

CLEARLY

the entire thought is invalid... When hypocrisy becomes a scumtell, let me know.
*I'll grant that at best your suspicion of EC was waffling. I misread the level of your EC hate because calling out EC was the major reason I liked your first real post.

The argument is not retarded.
1) In this instance I posted a defence, true, but to label all my posting as either defending myself or trying to preserve the status quo is a blatant misrepresentation. Point in case: Back at the beginning of January when very few people had so much as mentioned Powerrox and certainly no one had voted him in any seriousness I made a case for his lynch and placed the first vote on what became the lynch of the day. If that is posting to maintain the status quo then you have a very warped definition of status quo.

2) Hypocrisy (not to forget the misrepping that went with it, btw) is a scumtell. So here's me letting you know. And before you ask, here's why: Hypocrisy is a special case of the application of a double standard. You condemn someone for an action that you yourself have committed. The idea of condemning someone for their actions is that you believe those actions are more likely to come from scum than from town (this is the definition of a scumtell); thing is, how can you - if you are actually town - honestly condemn someone for doing something you are also guilty of. You have a proof positive example of a townie (yourself) committing exactly the same act which makes that act, at the very least, a nulltell. If, on the other hand, you're scum you lack that proof positive example of a townie committing the act in question and you would have no interest in such an example even if you did - making you much more likely to make the hypocritical accusation. Hence it is a scumtell.

*Look at the people who you put in front of EC.

Vote Powerrox93

Other scum reads at the moment: Nero Cain. diddin. Less so, themanhimself and EC.

I'm willing to bet every last one of these are Town.

And I'd eat my had if you don't end up losing that bet.

There are other things I don't like about Saint's play.

His sudden willingness to vote AntB back during day 1 coming out of nowhere was scummy.

His construction of a too townie argument against nhamen was scummy.

His strawman argument against Bunny was scummy.
-Both of the above two were mentioned earlier by myself in 1216. (another post that was neither defending myself or preserving the status quo)

I also and a little suspicious of Saint's interaction with TMH. Some highlights of those interactions: In 207 he tries to co-opt TMH into voting with him. In 703 he votes him. From 1418 ViSaint has TMH listed among the lynchproof, yet in 1462 FurcSaint makes this comment.

I am not fully convinced TMH is scum, but he surely isn't the town-slot that I believed he was earlier on in the game.

Here Saint seems to be leaning on the scumside of the alignment fence he's sitting on with regard to TMH. To me this looks like scumbuddy interaction with TMH - experienced Vi is calling TMH town despite a preponderance of scumminess, newer Furc is vacillating on the TMH. In the absence of a flip on either this point is the weakest, but given that I strongly read TMH as scum - as in, I'd be personally banging in the nails at his crucifixion if I didn't think we owed it to ourselves to at least try and keep the dayvig power and attempt to take both him and the stump out tomorrow - I think it's at least a little valid. Hint: TMH is the reason I most think you'll lose that little bet.

Vote Saint

[q21]

1) In this instance I posted a defence, true, but to label all my posting as either defending myself or trying to preserve the status quo is a blatant misrepresentation. Point in case: Back at the beginning of January when very few people had so much as mentioned Powerrox and certainly no one had voted him in any seriousness I made a case for his lynch and placed the first vote on what became the lynch of the day. If that is posting to maintain the status quo then you have a very warped definition of status quo.

Could you provide another example? Leading a lynch on a village idiot isn't exactly a claim to fame.

I actually mentioned one in the post you're quoting here. It was to do with two irrefutably scummy things you've done, accusations which, interestingly enough, you have neglected to respond to. Just for good measure I placed the first vote on a diddin miniwagon early on day 1, granted I wasn't wading into entirely unsupported territory, but also certainly wasn't just posting to maintain the status quo.

thing is, how can you - if you are actually town - honestly condemn someone for doing something you are also guilty of.

Not everyone plays perfect games. Also, motivation.

Interestingly the motivation that you ascribed to me for (supposedly) dropping EC down my scumlist was identical to the motivation you had for doing so - just, you disagreed with my reads of the people I put above him, which is you're right for all that I think you're wrong. In fact your motivation for misrepping me with regard to my level of suspicion on EC was so that you could hypocritically accuse me; which is a genuinely scummy motivation.

You have a proof positive example

of a townie (yourself)

committing exactly the same act which makes that act, at the very least, a nulltell.

Why thank you~

*Sigh* You probably realise this, but just in case: The "yourself" in that sentence refers to any townie contemplating potentially making a hypocritical accusation. Not you specifically.

His sudden willingness to vote AntB back during day 1 coming out of nowhere was scummy.

Being willing to vote someone without saying why

with no threat of a lynch

is a scummy move now? Without looking back through the QT I'm not sure if I was the one who gave him the idea that AntB was scummy, but I can certainly vouch for encouraging him here.

Being willing to vote someone without giving even the slightest hint of a reason has always been scummy. As for being able to vouch for Furc: There is no vouching for each other in a hydra, you're both equally responsible for everything that the hydra says or does.

experienced Vi is calling TMH town despite a preponderance of scumminess

And I was even kind enough to say why. Oh, you're not going to bother with that, are you?

I don't buy the why you presented and am more inclined to view it as an attempt to convince others to drop their perfectly valid suspicions.

[q21]

And you didn't mention the conflict of motivation, so I will for you.

You're voting me in no small part because you think TMH is scum and I'm defending him. That's nice. Now when I flip Town, what will that say about TMH? Nothing at all. If you lynched TMH and he flipped Town, you would see that I certainly DON'T have the scum motivation to defend him as a partner - and considering that he's lynchbait, probably none whatsoever regardless. So why vote me?

You're misrepping me, yet again. I actually said that the point about you're interaction with TMH was the weakest of the reasons for voting you. That aside, the point you make here would be entirely valid in a normal game - and were this a normal game without the role cycling mechanic I would be gladly voting TMH, but that isn't the case. TMH has the dayvig ability, and that ability is the only way we know of for sure to get rid of the treestump, and we do need to get rid of the treestump.

I'm not going to get into the other points mentioned in this post again. I've made the points and defended them, you've refuted twice; I now call on the town to read and decide. Hint: The right decision is that Saint's scum.

An open question to everyone: how valuable do you consider the dayvig to actually be? Would you be willing to try the following or some version of it:
We give diddin a list of a few people, and he randomly busdrives the dayvig to one of them(so that in case he's scum, he can't use it elsewhere, and to minimize chances of dayvig winding up in the void). ckd passes the stump to tmh. Either shoot him or organize a group of people to spam during times that he isn't online.

Actually, that might be a decent way to control the virus kill... pass it to someone then spam while they're sleeping... it's devious yet could work.

I consider the dayvig very valuable because, as stated above, I think it's the only way we know we have to get rid of the treestump. Of course, if there's a nightvig they could just shoot ckd and be done with it. The more I think about it the less I like the idea of sending the treestump to TMH, because if we do loose the dayvig we'd be forced to let him live until day 4, of course the problem with that is that by dealing with the stump separate from TMH we could be leaving it too late to actually do anything about it.
I do like you're idea with regard to diddin redirecting the dayvig pass to one of a group of people - I suggest you and SC be on that list, not sure who else.

@pops - I tend to read hypocrisy as a scumtell to some degree all the time, though it is weaker in some cases (such as the example you give) than others. In the case in point with Saint I'm confident its genuinely scummy. Further discussion on whether its a scumtell is, I think, mafia discussion.

Agree with SC that CKD, treestump or not, needs to put forward more than one scumread.

[q21]

Honestly? I don't have a clue who to vote FOR. I haven't the foggiest idea of who's scum, except for thinking TMH and diddin are scummy, and as described above, voting for them isn't a good idea.

So, other than those two no other scum read? Not even partial or slightly leaning scum scumreads? Really?

Of course, if there's a nightvig they could just shoot ckd and be done with it. The more I think about it the less I like the idea of sending the treestump to TMH, because if we do loose the dayvig we'd be forced to let him live until day 4, of course the problem with that is that by dealing with the stump separate from TMH we could be leaving it too late to actually do anything about it.

The obvious solution, q, is to rid ourselves of theman right now. Listen, even those that don't support lynching him admit that we'll probably lose the dayvig ability. I have seen nothing but whispers that imply that the Virus or the dayvig abilities are coming back, so I have no real reason to believe they will again.

So then how do we deal with the treestump? If we lynch TMH now we get rid of the only way that we know exists to get rid of it. Yes, chances are that it'll get taken out/voided but there's also a chance that it won't and I think we need to keep TMH alive for today based on that chance to deal with the treestump tomorrow.

[q21]

I want everyone on record on the following two questions before we get to N2.

1) If TMH survives to D3, and assuming the day vig makes it to D3, should TMH be killed D3 (either voluntarily by holding the virus, or forced through the day vig)?

2) If TMH survives D2, should CKD pass the tree stump to TMH N2?

1) YES
2) This one I'm not so sure of anymore. If we're still assuming the dayvig makes it to day 3, then yes. But that assumption is dangerous here because if the dayvig doesn't make it we're forced to give scum TMH another day.

I have scumreads on Nero Cain, Bunny, and Saint still. I could have my vote on any one of the three, but it wouldn't mean anything, and I don't really think any of them is scummier than another. If it's gonna be an issue for me to not my have my vote somewhere, I'll throw it on one of the three of them.

It would mean something if you voted Saint, since then there would be 2 people voting for that particular scum.

[q21]

q21 - The chance of you lynching me Today without pulling your entire scum team with you is nil. You may as well not bother.

I realise my chance of lynching you is small and since I have no scum team to help I have to push for the lynch I most believe in at this time. Yours. With a week still to deadline I feel perfectly comfortable pushing the lynch I'd most like to see happen, later I may be forced to reconsider, but for now... MOAR SAINT VOTES PLEASE!


DGB - We're lynching Saint, the rest of the town just doesn't realise it yet.

[q21]

q21 - Refresh me again on why you want me lynched. The OTH take-home version of it was "I'm out to get you".

You have misrepped me and then hypocritically called me scummy based on that misrepresentation. Your comment about my posting was also a misrepresentation. Its not so much that you're out to get me, but that you did it scummily.
Also, SaintFurc has been scummy which you want to dismiss as Furc being Furc. I'm more keep on the explanation of Furc being scum.
Lastly, I find your defence of TMH disingenuous.

[q21]

unvote Vote: quadz08

dat bigger wagon

Also, tmh lied about the redirector ability. It's standard. Mod-confirmed, an ability is only non-standard if the ability PM explicitly says so.

When you say bigger wagon I assume you mean bigger than WC based on your post before this vote:

^Quadz is so scum.

Him or WC, decisions, decisions...

Except that WC was the bigger wagon with 4 votes to quadz 3... and you were already voting WC so you just shrunk that wagon.

In short, for all that I think quadz has been a little scummy, I don't like this vote one bit.

So then how do we deal with the treestump? If we lynch TMH now we get rid of the only way that we know exists to get rid of it. Yes, chances are that it'll get taken out/voided but there's also a chance that it won't and I think we need to keep TMH alive for today based on that chance to deal with the treestump tomorrow.

I don't think that's feasible. We're putting too much to chance. ckd can flip it to someone like a Bunny or LynchMePls who right now I'm only so-so on (haven't really felt big town/scum vibes from either of them) and take them out. Of course if theman were to flip town, diddin would be the obvious choice.

So tell me, if we do lynch TMH today and CKD does flip the stump to someone else (bunny/LMP as you suggest) the question remains: How do we "take it out" as you so succinctly put it?

*If you're detecting a hint of sarcasm here, then your sarcasmometer is working just fine. Despite that, if you can give a valid, genuine answer to this then I'd be happy to vote TMH with you.

[q21]

So then how do we deal with the treestump? If we lynch TMH now we get rid of the only way that we know exists to get rid of it. Yes, chances are that it'll get taken out/voided but there's also a chance that it won't and I think we need to keep TMH alive for today based on that chance to deal with the treestump tomorrow.

I don't think that's feasible. We're putting too much to chance. ckd can flip it to someone like a Bunny or LynchMePls who right now I'm only so-so on (haven't really felt big town/scum vibes from either of them) and take them out. Of course if theman were to flip town, diddin would be the obvious choice.

So tell me, if we do lynch TMH today and CKD does flip the stump to someone else (bunny/LMP as you suggest) the question remains: How do we "take it out" as you so succinctly put it?

*If you're detecting a hint of sarcasm here, then your sarcasmometer is working just fine. Despite that, if you can give a valid, genuine answer to this then I'd be happy to vote TMH with you.

An answer please RC, since you're apparently around.

[q21]

Since I've already done so FurcSaint, I'm just going to quote myself.

nhamen's ridiculously long post

And what is it exactly I'm missing?
I'd like to claim #3, for the record, but I am not claiming my recipient.
Also, why do you have interest in me yet interest for people who are interested in lynching my slot and it flipping town? Just the sheer ignorance of imagining a town flip seems ridiculous. Let's imagine a scum one.

I disagree with my hydra's read on you recently. Your posting feels pretty pro-town. Is that how you play as scum? If you're that good as scum, I would consider lynching you based upon your unreadability.

I don't get the last sentence of your first paragraph... I read it and reread it and it still doesn't make much sense. As for the second paragraph... are you really trying to construct a too townie argument againt nhamen? Because that's what it looks like.

@nhamm: Thanks for reminding me of that question, I missed it lol.
@Pops: I think its because I believe Saint is scum, while on DBE I don't believe it yet. Would I cry if DBE dies, no I wouldn't.
@I am Innocent: 3) Someone Else.

I'd like reasoning for this
Are you familiar with my play?
Do you realize I go the extra mile as town?
Are you familiar with my vehement scum-meta and easy-readability?

I am by far NOT a policy lynch, and you WILL NOT gain any traction on this.
I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHY I'M POSTING THIS!

I do not remember anyone saying anything about a policy lynch of you, certainly I don't see it in the post you've quoted here. So far as I can see it the policy lynch point here is a blatant strawman. All scummy. I now list Saint as people I think are scum.

Someone tell me what's wrong with this picture.
*Parama is being called Extremely Town by everyone. (okay, what's wrong other than that)
*DBE claims to have passed the Doctor to Parama.
*Parama wants to die Today, specifically by the Virus.

She said she protected Parama, not that she passed her ability to Parama.

Preview Edit: Ninja'd by LMP on the last point... but screw it.

[q21]

is there a reason you walled my OBV-townness off the thread, Q21?

What obvtowness?

[q21]

So the entire Day 1 Nero doesn't look twice at me. Then I ask a question regarding the Darla Lynch and all of a sudden I'm Obvscum and I'm scumbuddies with my #1 Scumspect. This is definately a weak attack on me by Nero and reminds me of LMP's tactics as well.

Its just the way I scum hunt or at least try to. If I don't like the post I'll point it out and depending on how scummy it is (which is subjective mind you) then I'll start thinkin' that player is scummy. I think it was you, if not I apologize, but I see absolutely no pro-towness in TMH and you made some comments defending TMH.

What are your thoughts on Saint, considering how much they've been defending TMH?

is there a reason you walled my OBV-townness off the thread, Q21?

What obvtowness?

you must not know who i am....

Furcolow, by all accounts. Still not seeing any protowness.

I'm not clear on the cyclic bizniss part of the rules. Can anyone explain? Assume an IQ of less than 20.

Each night after you use any ability you have, such as doctor or busdriver, you have to choose another player in the game to pass that ability to (called cycling). You lose that ability and the next morning whoever you chose to pass it to is informed that they have gained the ability and may use it accordingly as they see fit and then choose someone else to pass it to themselves. The one caveat is that scum cannot pass abilities to scum of the same faction.
And your IQ's at least 30 DGB.

[q21]

So. IAI, I've debunked one entirely associative case on me (which was first mentioned by you) so you're bringing another?

[q21]

So. IAI, I've debunked one entirely associative case on me (which was first mentioned by you) so you're bringing another?

Is this your defense?

How about starting with who do you think TMH's scum partners are, assuming he is scum of course?

I don't need a defence because basing an entire case on associative tells before either player's alignment is known is, well, desperate is what comes to mind - for all that even I agree that TMH is most likely scum.

@ViSaint (1700) - Up until that point I'd been undecided on Saint. Those two posts were a tipping point to me thinking Saint scum, your own misreps made me decide to go ahead and make the case.

That said, I'm beginning to admit that my vote on Saint probably won't go anywhere and that it needs to end up on TMH, WC or quadz as its now getting too close to deadline to stir up something brand new. I've already explained that I'm not voting themanhimself today. I was undecided on WrathChild until his latest stream of posts. Basically he was attacking the wagon that was taking the heat off of him - not something I've ever seen scum do. Scum will support the wagon that's taking pressure off them, not attack it. WC is likely town for my money. This leaves quadz.

Casting my mind back to just recently, I didn't like quadz not knowing who to vote for post, which when I questioned him on he suddenly had a list of scumreads to present. I agree with ViSaint (1700) that his claim that no one was commenting on Saint's TMH is town position is hugely infounded. Looking only a little further back: His bringing up MoI's plan, claiming to think it's a good idea but not following through on it on grounds that he wasn't sure it's what people wanted is weak especially given how many people said they were for it on Day 1 - last ditch attempt by scum to keep the town from getting what could be valuable information, possibly.

Given the context of the game at the moment, I think that's more than enough to go ahead and change my vote without needing to look to much deeper.

Unvote, Vote Quadz

[q21]

And I know there's a vote count just above me there, but just so that there can be no claims of unawareness.

THAT WOULD BE L-2.

[q21]

I passed to implosion night 1. I had an ability night 2 which I passed.

Vote TheManHimself

I've been planning to do this at the beginning of day 3 for pretty close to all of day 2; I've seen nothing yet to convince me otherwise. Nero could maybe be scum, but TMH is more likely in my opinion.

[q21]

IAI (1905) - I get why you'd suspect CKD more if TMH flips scum... I don't get why you would specifically sent CKD the stump if TMH flips town.

RedCoyote did not dare speak Nero Cain's name. They are scumpalz 4 shure.

If the virus and daykill are whipedout then...idk it seems like the game could be unbalanced without a mafia kill and he's said some pretty questionable things about it (the kill).

Can you elaborate on this, please? To me, this sounds like you have information about scumkills that I didn't get in my role PM...

Oh hai liar scum.

Wait. So you go through RC's 56 posts and find the one, solitary time where he makes any sort of comment to you (still doesn't mention you're name, btw) and use that to refute the point that he didn't interact with you. Right, is it just me or is that an unnaturally desperate attempt at defence?

[q21]

My Top 3 right now
TMH
CKD
q21

Nero Cain feels like the easy target today, the DBE/Powerox/Helghast of prior days.

Would like to see everyone's Top 3 suspects please. Also please chime in if I should or should not send the TreeStump to the next scummiest player after TMH, being that TMH is the likely lynch today.

I'm not sure I follow you on the Nero is the easy target point, given that none of your top three are pushing for Nero at the moment. Do you also suspect Saint or DBE?

If TMH flips scum, do not send the stump to CKD - or whoever else is next scummiest - because we would like to be able to lynch that person. Taking the nest scummiest player off the list of those we can lynch seems counterproductive.

Scumz
TheManHimself
Saint is still a point of interest for me
Nero Cain (could be overtaken by CKD depending on TMH's flip)

[q21]

None yet.

SC and LMP have yet to post for the day though, I think.

[q21]

HEY LOOK!!! I'm touched guys, I get to be the scum attempted mislynch for today.

TMH
Saint
q21
CKD
DGB
Wrath

These guys are all tied up together. But that's getting ahead of ourselves. Lets lynch TMH.

Wait. So you go through RC's 56 posts and find the one, solitary time where he makes any sort of comment to you (still doesn't mention you're name, btw) and use that to refute the point that he didn't interact with you. Right, is it just me or is that an unnaturally desperate attempt at defence?

All it takes is one. I mean if you want to be literal and anal about it yea he didn't mention my name which is doesn't make that much sense b/c DGB point was that HE didn't interact with me therefore we are scum together. Which I then prove is a lie 'cause RC tried to say I was scummy. So my question to you is why are you desperately defending DGB?

vote:TMH

The point is that one line out of 56 posts (many of which were textwalls) is still pretty decent proof that for some reason RC didin't want to interact with you.
And if my goal was to defend DGB I'd just point to her night killing a scum... jussayin.

[q21]

unvote: nero cain;
vote: q21

I might pull this vote off, Vi might pull this vote off, but I really implore you all to join me on this.
Not only would his flipping of scum confirm us, scum will have to waste a night kill on us. NK on Furcolow is pro-town.

So you're voting me because you want to confirm yourself? Seems overly selfserving to me, but its okay, when I flip town everyone will see you for the scum you are... wait, no they won't cause you'll just point out that me flipping town doesn't mean you can't be town. You're enticing people with the promise of a scumlynch AND and a confirmed townie, interesting way to sell a mislynch.

Nero Cain's flailing defence in 1949 is achieving rather the opposite effect to what a defence should. With not a single vote placed against him (granted there was 1, but its gone now) I don't quite understand why a townie would be flailing this hard.

[q21]

I passed to implosion on night 2.

Vote CKD

Oh wait, I can't do that. Thanks IAI... I'd be contemplating CKD (obviously) or Saint if I had a vote.

[q21]

*Therefore the Dayvig ability SHOULD be in the Void.

I've got you up to here... well at least insomuch as the fact that at some point the dayvig must have been in the void.

*Moreover, we can assume that the scum WANTED the Dayvig passed to the Void, given the claim and what most likely happened.
*With that in mind, if the scum had the chance to make it so that the Dayvig could return to the game, they would pass it up - they wanted it out of the game for a reason.
*That scum motivation PLUS the contradiction of what we know should be true leads to my conclusion that

WrathChild is scum lying about the Dayvig not being in the Void.

*This line of thought ALSO leads to a conclusion that whoever currently has the Void Collector ability was the kill target last Night.

This bit confuses me a little. I guess the confusion comes in where I agree that scum would want the dayvig to stay in the void and would therefore pass up the chance to retrieve it... but how do we know the scum ever had te chance to retrieve it. The retriever could have been with a townie yesterday and that townie could have taken the dayvig and Wrath's statement that it isn't in the void is perfectly reasonable. Did I somehow miss something here.
I think part of the confusion arises from my townread of Wrath which comes from his rather aggressive attack on the wagon that was taking pressure OFF him day 2 (the quadz wagon).

[q21]

flipping q21, if he flips scum, would clear both us and implosion (assuming he isn't lying about implosion)
if you think about it, q21 knows that if he flips we are clear. it is logical for him to want us gone from this game before him, and before we can see that the ties between us can confirm a few people through cycling mechanics.

And for exactly the same reason it is prefectly logical for you to want me dead before you flip.

q21 is uncharacteristically quiet. I think he's laying back waiting to go last, also, READ MY SIG etc. He needs a lynching.

I'm quiet because I'm bored because I can't vote because IAI passed me the treestump. Also means you can't lynch me today.

Everyone please officially claim if you Purged Nero Cain or not last night.

I did not Purge Nero Cain Night 3

That's all very nice, except if the ability was randomized in the hands of scum, all they have to do is deny having got it, and I have a target on me. Plus, it was a suspicious

TOWNIE

that was shot last night, so I could look bad for having attacked Nero Cain, too.

If you'll excuse me for potentially being wrong about game mechanics...

Nobody claimed the chkflip kill either. If whoever gets this extra kill is indeed randomized per Night, there is no downside whatsoever to that person claiming now as well.

My memory isn't perfect, but it is telling me that I think popz claimed the night 1 kill... not going to go trawl through his posts to check, he can confirm it himself... or tell me I'm a moron.

The case on ckd, as far as I care to be concerned, is that he failed to pass the Tree Stump to themanhimself-scum (which scum conveniently couldn't do), and it just so happened to land on the person driving the Town.

Was CKD under attack himself when he was going after TMH and defending DBE? Scum under attack does tend to bus more.

CKD was unlycnhable at the time, if I recall correctly.


I had no abilities N3/D3 and did not purge Nero Cain.

[q21]

Because I just found out that implosion=SCoug.

Wait... what?

[q21]

I'm quiet because I'm bored because I can't vote because IAI passed me the treestump. Also means you can't lynch me today.

Are you going to treestump yourself if a majority asks for it?

huh?

[q21]

I'm quiet because I'm bored because I can't vote because IAI passed me the treestump. Also means you can't lynch me today.

Are you going to treestump yourself if a majority asks for it?

huh?

Does the treestump role allow you to suicide, but continue to talk after death? That's what treestumps normally do.

The treestump in this game says that my votes don't count and I can't be lynched. If the majority of the town votes for me the day will end in a no lynch.

[q21]

Has everyone claimed with regard to killing Nero Cain last night? And has anyone claimed the chkflip kill?

I'm starting to get the impression that that kill hasn't moved and for all that DGB killed a scum I'm starting to view that role as SK rather than vig being passed around. I'd thought pops killed chkflip and passed to DBG, that was the impression I got, it seems I was wrong. I can especially see DGBSK killing Nero at given that, at the end of day 3 Nero was at the top of her scumputer list.

[q21]

Catching up…

Was right about TMH, and am I shocked that IAI is back to attacking me again?...no.

Though his lack of vote today (right out of the gate) looks townish..the q21 attack out of no where, looks quite fucking interesting though…where did that come from? Looks like scum knew the wagon was going to start on me and wanted to get on it early without drawing too much attention.

Big FOS for q21.

At the moment, I am not liking CKD post at all.

as my second scum suspect yesterday after tmh, this doesnt surprise me in the least....maybe you want to go into it a little more...what didnt you like...my suspicion about TMH?..my suspicion in you?....maybe the fact I have been busy?

Can we lynch him? Seriously, he didn't pass the stump to TMH, he failed the plan after I posted it in giant can't-miss letters... I honestly think the only reason he's saying he has an ability so that we don't lynch him, whether or not he actually has an ability.

VOTE: CKD

---

HOLY FUCKING SHIT?...ummmm....you know i have an ability(tells you what I got)....so you need to explain this vote?

---I did not nor have not purged anyone---

Top scum suspects?.....Bunnylover, Q21 (for random vote out of the gate for no fucking reason), and Implosion (also I obvious didn’t read your “plan”, please explain to me how claiming is scummy?...this is a weak vote to get onto a hot wagon).

Vote pending on answered questions.

also I want to reread the events of yesterday again.....

While I do think you're scummy CKD, at least for not passing the stump to TMH, the reason for the timing of my vote and the fact that I didn't bother to supply reams or reasoning is that I was making a vote to prove that I can't vote today.

*ignoring it completely and continuing as if it weren't there, because it's completely indefensible[/i][/color]

Because you can't lynch me today anyway, on account of the ability I've been passed. And if you can convince a lot of players of what you are trying to convince them of, it's going to make it doubly useful.

I'm the only one today who's role makes me literally unlynchable. Even if you have a very protown power we have to weigh the value of that against someone who is looking increasingly like a SK. And now we learn that apparently dead powers aren't 100% gone anyway... which you knew when you made this post.

But other ones, we might as well come out on. Saint/Furc already said he was a roleblocker, so we might as well fill the blanks with that.

...Really?

Well, you couldn't have guessed it on your own, so yes. I initially thought the Roleblock stopped the kill N3, but that didn't mesh with LMP claiming it, so.

Saint blocked DarlaBlueEyes N1. (Yes, I know.)

they aren't launched back into the game, the way the void thing sounds like it works. You use them from outside the game. Cept the virus which seems like a passive thing gets converted into more like a virus launcher where you pick someone to infect. That's why I tried to conceal the role for a while, tree stump might work the same way.

As I thought.
In addition, the contradiction between your claim and Goofball's is neatly resolved by assuming that once offered, the roles are gone for good.
But that doesn't explain how LMP was able to stop the kill, again.

The contradiction isn't sorted out quite that easily, Saint, since both pops and DGB were apparently offered the double vote.


implosion - should I claim my day 1 role... I get the impression that that's the role you're suggesting is kept quiet.

[q21]

Now I understand.
Pops actually makes a point. If DGB did kill scum the second night, then obviously he/she knows who shot N3, so why haven't they come out or DGB announce who they are.

DGB claimed not to have actually targeted her passes (actually exact comment was that she didn't pass an ability at all)? Then she wouldn't know who her abilities supposedly went to. So when the night 3 kill comes in and no one else claims it (as has happened) she has an excuse for not being able to point a finger at the killer.

I thought it was obvious. Yes, I had a role but did not pass it on. However, I did kill RedCoyote, who scored high in the scumputer.

Claims not to have passed at all. Also saw this while looking for the above post.

Each night after you use any ability you have, such as doctor or busdriver, you have to choose another player in the game to pass that ability to (called cycling). You lose that ability and the next morning whoever you chose to pass it to is informed that they have gained the ability and may use it accordingly as they see fit and then choose someone else to pass it to themselves. The one caveat is that scum cannot pass abilities to scum of the same faction.

Can someone get passed more than one ability?

This question seemed innocuous at the time, but given that we now know she had 2 abilities it becomes suspect since if you have two abilities surely its obvious you can be passed two abilities. Unless one of your abilities is one that never passes - then you'd have to check, because if you can't be passed two abilities then letting slip later in the game that you had two abilities marks you out as different, ie. scum. Or SK as is probably more likely.

In other news, Q21 is looking like "scum giving up."

Oh lolz, how so?

[q21]

q21 makes a good point about dgb-sk,but somehow sk hunting doesn't make me feel better about his alignment.

I've already stated who I think should be good lynches for today: Saint and CKD. I've spent ages in this game pointing out why Saint is scum. CKD is mostly scum for the failed pass to TMH and I think he would make the better lynch because of the number and identities of the people who would be confirmed by his scumflip. However I can't vote so pushing either one feels like I'm wasting my time. Making a newer point about someone feels like actually doing something even though I can't vote based on it.

[q21]

#5 Can we please get take a look at the uber-suspicious Purge ability. Didn't DGB claim it cycled? So... should the person who held it before and after him be safe to come forward?

You're, like, six pages behind the times here. But you pretty much hit on why Goofball IS the best lynch Today.
There's no reason for her to hit q21 when she can hit, say, someone who's suspicious of her and just keep not getting lynched.

But I am suspicious of her and she can get town points for killing me because it seems everyone wants her to.

I've already stated who I think should be good lynches for today: Saint and CKD. I've spent ages in this game pointing out why Saint is scum.

ITT, q21 claims tunnel vision.

Nothing wrong with tunnel vision when you're tunneling on scum.

Roleblock:
Starts off with Saint, who Roleblocks DBE (Doctoring Parama), saint passes it to q21 who has NOT claimed a target for N2, but passed it to Implossion who blocked NC night 3 who died via purge with no abilities.

q21 needs to claim a target for N2

I targeted TMH himself night 2. I figured the scum might well get their scummiest player to make the kill rather than risk exposing a townier player to something like a tracker. It seems I was wrong.

Purge:
The million dollar question. N1 chk was purged, N2 RC was purged, N3 NC was purged. No one was claimed the purge ability other than DGB, of course after he nailed scum. Now the interesting thing is if you read DGB's ISO #29-#36 it is pretty obvious who DGB wants dead. ISO #25 seems to be sidestepping the issue of passing. In his ISO #95 DGB claims to have had nothing N3, but I think it is pretty obvious he killed Nero. The missing nail in this coffin is if anyone sent him the purge ability after N1.

However, if DGB's ability is noncycling it makes the Vanilla/Ability numbers work out perfectly from Day 1.

I am pretty certain that DGB's ability is noncycling and he is a liar. Chances are he is SK.

BUT... If we want to eliminate the stump we need the NK from DGB... BUT... as long as the stump is in play DGB will continue to flaunt a free pass. I don't know the risk/reward ratio for leaving DGB alive.

Well done for arriving at the same conclusion as the rest of us, finally. But be careful, apparently this type point is scummy.

@IAI - Yes you spoke a lot day 3 despite the stump, but most of it was role and mechanics based a topic on which I am not in a position to add anything new. Well, not true actually, but what I could add is probably best left not said for the moment.

[q21]

I am relocating for work in the next week and am therefore going to be busy until I leave and unlikely to have personal access to the internet for a while after I arrive. As such I have decided to ask for replacement from all my currently ongoing games. Having to move this quickly is a little unexpected and I apologise to the mods and players I will be leaving, I know how much it sucks to have to go searching for replacements.

I hereby officially request replacement from this game.

Sorry again,
q21