Mini 50 (Newer York Confidential) Game Over!

[JazzRed]

Well, I'm not a big fan of

completely

random votes. So I think I'll wait until more people post before I place my vote.

Anyways, about the deaths. It seems that Tigris was killed by a SK . Then that means that Polar Boy was killed by the Mafia (or at least it seems so, why would another killing role tear him up with a machine gun?). Yet, he was a mafia member himself. Very strange....

[JazzRed]

Fishbulb and gslamm, take a look at what mneme said:

Tigris (Lt. Niceguy, Cop): Killed by a lone assassin.
PolarBoy (Captain Happy, Crooked Cop): Pulverized in a machine-gun execution.

Lone assassin is the SK's kill (I assume). So then that means that PolarBoy was killed by the mafia. But then again, who knows?

Anyways, I will

Vote: gslamm

partly because something needs to happen and partly out of revenge.

[JazzRed]

jasonpingpong, voting no lynch is worse then killing a townie. That's because during the night, another person (or two) who are innocent are going to get killed. At least if we lynch someone we get some info. Because of your no lynch stance, I will

FOS: jasonpingpong

Also my vote will stand where it is at least until we hear again from gslamm. So I advise that people don't jump on the banwagon and get him lynched before then.

And to clarify what I implied in my other posts, I did not mean them as "Lone assassin definitely = SK" I was just trying to draw on what information we have.

[JazzRed]

Ok, I will start off by

Unvoting: gslamm

. I have no reason to suspect you and no, I don't think there is any need for a claim (seeing as now you know have 1 vote).

Now, for something a little more interesting... You want the name of another mafia? Well, here it is: the Symphony Mafia. They're the ones doing the killings. For now, I think it's best I not explain how I know this, but now you all know too.

Also, I will

Vote PBug

. He's been very...dodgy... Some of his posts have been off the wall and just plain confusing. He also seemed eager to start a banwagon against jasonpingpong for voting no lynch.

[JazzRed]

I'll explain how I know about the Symphony mafia. I'm a member of a mason group (who's win condition is that the town survives). That mason group is the Carnegie Mafia. I

KNOW

that the Carnegie mafia is

NOT

behind the killings. We're just living off the money we made while we were active.

Now, I also know that the Symphony Mafia is behind the killings. Since PBug has claimed Symphony Mafia, I am positive he is scum. I can also assume he is now pointing the finger at the Carnegie Mafia because he put 2 and 2 together and realized I must be a member. It undoubtedly mentioned us when he got his role.

This explains why I kept implying that the Carnegie Mafia member was killed by the mafia. And you can see by the descriptions that within all likelihood the Cop was killed by the SK and Carnegie member by the mafia.

So, I will keep my vote on PBug, and insist that you all do the same. And I will say this again - The Carnegie Mafia is a mason group on the side of the town. Nothing more, nothing less. Unfortunately, I have the feeling me saying this will likely get me killed or lynched.

[JazzRed]

This whole PBuG thing is confusing me big time. Since I am not a member of either mafia group, I'm not sure what is going on here. Sorry for not being much help, yet. Every time I come to this thread, I am left scratching my head.

Ok, let me break this down for eveyone:

- I started off by telling everyone that there was a Symphony Mafia and voted for PBuG
- PBuG (from what I can infer) scanned over my post and noticed my vote against him. He then role claimed Symphony Mafia Bodyguard
- PBuG then (once again, from what I can infer) posted right below his role claim after noticing I said that the Symphony Mafia was doing the killing.
- He then tries to get people to lynch me, pointing out the fact that I knew about the Symphony Mafia
- I post, explaining my knowledge of the Symphony Mafia.

Once again, although I'm a member of the Carnegie Mafia we do not kill, want the town to win, and are essentially a Mason group.

Get it now everyone? I hope so...

Also, I think PBuG's role

may

actually be Symphony Mafia Bodyguard. Could be a spin-off of the Doctor for the Mafia, protecting one of them from night kills (aka Vigilante). And my win condition is if the town survives, which makes me question PBuG even more because he said his win condition is to kill the murderers.

[JazzRed]

rite, how on earth can you have nothing more to say?!?! Two people just claimed and those people didn't just claim they claimed

Mafia!!

.

I will

FOS: rite

. I get the very, very strong feeling that you are scum due to the fact that you just avoid the whole Carnegie/Symphony Mafia debachle. As a matter of fact, that would be a vote if I wasn't so sure PBuG was scum (of some sort). How can you not have

any

opinion on this. My vote stays, but if I survive the night and rite hasn't said something

very

convincing then my vote will go to him tomorrow.

I may come to regret posting this later, but I'm a little hot-headed to see a post like rite's when 2 people claim Mafia. I mean

come on

say something about this...

[JazzRed]

rite, you've got a point. It's just frustrating to me that I've gone out on a limb and (as you've said) set myself up for getting killed during the night (anyone willing to place bets to whether I live to see day 2?) and people

still

make random votes without any reason for them. I'll

UnFOS: rite

for now. I was looking and still am hoping for people to come out with more definite opinions.

Consider this a plea: People please choose who to believe. Both myself and PBuG have said we belong to a mafia and we are both pointing fingers at the other persons mafia. To be honest, I think the best way to gather some information (and that is what Day 1 is usually about right?) is to lynch either myself or PBuG. Of course, I think you should lynch PBuG but at the very least make up your minds people.

[JazzRed]

PBug - I was expecting nothing less from you to be honest.

FinalFear - You finally post, voting for me, claiming it to be random. This right after rite says he'll jump on the bandwagon against either myself or PBuG. If PBuG turns out to be evil, I think you may be to. But I'm not even going to FOS you, that post is just a

little

suspicious. (Also, I'm not holding any of my thoughts in any more, I've resigned to my fate - I'll be dead in the morning).

rite - Although 3 votes may not be a bandwagon, I'd really like it if you voted for PBuG and turned it into one As for evidence - think about this:

Let's assume I'm scum. Why would I reveal myself just to kill a townie? A mafia (evil) mafia member for a townie is hardly advantageous for us.

Now let's assume I'm pro-town. I see the oppourtunity to sacrifice myself to get a (evil) mafia member. Of course I'm going to take that opportunity. I am after all for the towns survival.

[JazzRed]

Well, same with JazzRed...

Fair enough, I am the member of a "mafia" group but, as I've said, it's a mason group by another name. Besides, you're the one who is unsure about what you're mafia really does. Although you

may

not have anything with your mafia's kills, you are nonetheless, a member of a mafia I

KNOW

kills.

[JazzRed]

Yawn, even though it's not quite 9 p.m. here, I'm going to bed. I have to get up too early in the morning. It's the first day of school! Oh Joy I won't be on until late tomorrow... Anyways, I don't want the day to end before I say a few things:

I'll probably get killed during the night, so if the Doc wouldn't mind protecting me, it'd be much appreciated!

Make a decision, and lynch PBuG!

Also, in case I do die, here's who I suspect...

Most suspicious: PBuG - Derf! Why else would I be trying so hard for him to be lynched

Suspicious: FinalFear - Comes, posts a "random" vote against me, seems mafia like. After all, PBuG had voted for me and rite said he would join a bandwagon against who ever, so if PBuG is scum I'd bet so is FinalFear.

The only other people I have the slightest suspicion of: rite (because of that one post) and Fishbulb (Because he was eager not to cause conflict over the killings (take a look at the first page description of the killings and you can make up your mind about who did what)). I wouldn't vote for either of them but hey, if I die, at least you'll know everything I was thinking...

Everyone Else I have no suspicion of whatsoever. To wrap this up: lynch PBuG please and Doc protect me during the night if ya can.

[JazzRed]

Fishbulb, I understand. I'm just pointing out every little though I've had. I really don't think your evil or anything - I'm just saying... I didn't even FOS you...

Also, like I've said. I seriously think that I'll be dead via lynch or other death by the morning. Why bother to not say anything? Perhaps I'm pessimistic about all this, but I'm the only one who's come forward and said "I know something everyone else doesn't". I gotta go know, I see what's happening here later.

[JazzRed]

ROFL, I'm still alive. Then again, there was no mafia kill last night.

Now, I'll

Vote: FinalFear

. This is because he seems like the best choice. Asking about a doc, and that first post on day 1 is still on my mind.

Also, about Fishbulb - I wonder what exactly that post means (the reporters). If he was suspected, is it likely that he actually does? Perhaps Vigilante or nothing at all.

[JazzRed]

Arg, this is a sticky situation, that it is. We really shouldn't lynch a vig but I don't know that we have anything else to go on .... *sigh*...

Unvote: FinalFear

. He's either really good at faking a role or really is the vig. I suggest using your kill tonight FinalFear, because my guess is that if you really are the vig, the mafia will kill you. Then again, what do I know?

Seeing as how this day needs to get going, anyone have any other ideas?

[JazzRed]

FF: Who should we vig kill tonight? I still think thats a bad move. Shooting in the dark just to keep from losing a bullet is more likely to get a townie killed.

That's like saying we should all vote no lynch because our chances of killing a townie are higher than killing a member of a mafia. This is not to say the kill should be completely random, just that I think we should use it while we can.

[JazzRed]

Why should I get someone to confirm my claim? If I'm mafia, then I'd just get one of my mafia friends to say that they are my fellow mason? If its to prove that I really am a member of the mason group, why does it matter? It's pointless to have another innocent claim.

Also, I will

Vote: Riven

to get the ball rolling.

[JazzRed]

I guess I phrased what I was trying to say improperly. I didn't mean there wasn't another member, what I meant was, I see no reason to reveal him. If revealing the other member is the difference between getting lynched or not, I guess I will. My fellow mason was Jasonpingpong, which means that my fellow mason is Someone. I would quote the PM's (which we're allowed to do right?) but I'm too damn lazy. Someone (not just anyone, Someone), please confirm this because getting lynched = bad.

[JazzRed]

Coolbot, how do you know that Riven is innocent? It seems very suspicious to me that you just declare him innocent.... unless I missed something...

Also,

Vote: Night Stalker

. He doesn't post much and even when he does it isn't much of a post. Unfortunately, that's all I've got...

[JazzRed]

Here's my best effort to figure everything out...

I think in a game this size there would be 3 mafia. Along with them, we know that there is a SK (all the extra kills). One mafia member is dead (PBuG), so that means we can reasonably assume that there are 2 mafia and 1 SK left. I would also venture to say that there is probably a doctor, which would account for the mafia not killing last night.

Of those people left, I

know

that myself and Someone are innocent (whether or not you believe is another thing). Riven in the beginning confirmed the existence of the Symphony Mafia, which means I'm inclined to believe he's innocent. Coolbot says he knows he's innocent which leads me to believe that Coolbot and Riven are a mason group. That would explain how they knew about the Symphony Mafia (that's how I knew) and would also explain how they knew each other to be innocent. Then again, CoolBot could be the reporter or something....

That leaves Night Stalker, Fishbulb, gslamm, and FinalFear. From what we found out in the Newspaper report Fishbulb didn't do anything during the night. Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that he too is innocent. Now, if I'm right (2 mafia, 1 doc, 1 SK) then that means there can't be a Vig (remember, this is all conjecture). This also means that FinalFear's claim is false and is scum. This makes some sense because he is so reluctant to use his night kill. So, assuming he's mafia, he obviously can't come through on his claim and he then does his best to get people to stop pressuring him to make a kill.

So that means that the only people I haven't talked about yet are Night Stalker and gslamm. My guess would be that Night Stalker and gslamm are some mix of SK and Mafia.

DISCLAIMER:

This is PURE SPECULATION. I could be (and probably am) WAY off. Nothing like a post made because I'm bored that points the finger at 3 different people, eh . Anyways I will

FOS: gslamm and FinalFear

and

Confirm Vote: Night Stalker

. Also, I suggest pressuring FinalFear to use his kill tonight or else lynch him tomorrow.

Oh and BTW, Coolbot, I didn't name 2 other people in my mason group (there are only 2), I merely mentioned that my partner was Jasonpingpong and is now Someone.

[JazzRed]

Yes, gslamm, you're right, but that post wasn't really anything set in stone. I admit, calling someone innocent because of them mentioning the mafia after I said it is sketchy. However, its all we have to go on.

On FinalFear, I am still very suspicious of him. I personally do NOT believe his role claim. Why? Because we were pressuring him to make a kill, and he basically said he wouldn't do it.

Lastly, I will

UnFOS: gslamm

. My reason for FOSing you was crap and I think if you really were mafia, you wouldn't care enough about an FOS to post that.

[JazzRed]

Whoa err ok. Night Stalker says he's in the Symphony Mafia, but they aren't doing the killings and now gslamm says to lynch Riven. So...

Unvote: Night Stalker

- I'm still suspicious of you but what gslamm said is somewhat convincing.

Vote: Riven

I'm doing this solely on what gslamm said and if he's lying, its his head.

BTW, gslamm, what makes you so sure? That post seems like it came outta no where.

[JazzRed]

...Just checked my role and it says that the Symphony Mafia is most likely behind the killings. Now I'm all confused!

[JazzRed]

I didn't say Night Stalker was innocent. Just that I believe him temporarily.

Like JazzRed said. On my head be it. If Riven isn't a killer you'll probably think I am and lynch me.

Purely process of elimination. With 4 cops there has to be varying sanities. FinalFear not really being a cop, and possibly one of the dead cops had a different role named cop. Now add in a "Researcher" that has a cops ability ...

I'm convinced that Riven is scum of one sort or another.

Who's to say that some of the supposed cops aren't mafia? Anyways, I think I've got an idea that will leave the next day much clearer. Here it is:

We lynch Riven. If he's a townie, then FinalFear, kill gslamm. If he's scum, kill Night Stalker. That way, by then next day we will have a much better idea of everything. If anyone has any better/more efficient ideas, I'd be glad to hear em.

[JazzRed]

I think that my plan is the best way to go. Think about this:

gslamm said he is

sure

that Riven is scum. If he was just another townie, making a claim like is very dangerous because if it turns out that he accused the wrong person he will very likely be lynched. So that means he is either so sure Riven is scum that he is willing to risk his own head for it (in which case lynching Riven is the way to go) or he is scum trying to off a potentially dangerous townie. As part of this, we are guaranteed to get a mafia member.

Now on Night Stalker - he said he is a member of the Symphony mafia which means I think he is evil. The only reason I think FinalFear should off him if Riven is mafia is because I want to find out for sure if FinalFear is the Vigilante. So, if all goes as I think it would, we will have gotten rid of 1 mafia member and perhaps have identified another. The worst possible outcome (and the least likely) is that we have 2 dead townies but have a confirmed innocent. I think even the worst outcome is better than any other plan we have.

[JazzRed]

FinalFear, assuming we lynch Riven, I think you should kill Night Stalker if Riven's mafia, but if Riven's a townie kill gslamm. Because as gslamm said, its his head if Riven isn't scum.

[JazzRed]

Fine go ahead Night Stalker - throw my plan out the window. I guess this is turning out to be a lot more complex...

Let's assume (even though I don't believe it) that the Symphony Mafia isn't behind the killings. Then who is?!?! I really don't believe Night Stalker. Unless our mod is positively

evil

then I don't think we would have 2 mafia groups, both of whom are innocent. Especially considering that my role says that the Symphony Mafia is most likely behind the killings. I also doubt this because if PBuG was a pro-town doc, then how come there was no mafia kill last night? And since we're on this subject, how could there be another doc unless they are lying about their claim (very confusing...)

Now, obviously, someones (any body, not Someone) role claim is a lie. We have:

JazzRed: Carnegie Mafia mason
Someone: Carngie Mafia mason

FinalFear: Vigilante
Night Stalker: Symphony Mafia Vigilante
DEAD PBuG: Symphony Mafia Bodyguard (supposedly pro town)

gslamm: Cop
Fishbulb: Neighbor (pseudo cop)
Riven: Reporter (pseudo cop)
DEAD Tigris: Cop

Now, if Night Stalker is telling the truth, then I think FinalFear is bad. I'm also inclined to believe Riven because he is the only one who claimed reporter, and there has to be one of those (because of the report at the beginning of the day). Then that leads me back to gslamm.... And I also think Fishbulb's claim least likely of the bunch (though I'm not saying its not true - it probably is) so I really don't know. My hunch is that either Night Stalker or FinalFear is lying because IF the Symphony mafia has a vigilante, then why wouldn't FinalFear be a member? Lynching one of them is IMO the best way to go soo...

Unvote: whoever ... Vote: FinalFear

Why FinalFear? Because if he is a Vigilante, then we can be pretty sure that Night Stalker is evil and more importantly that the Symphony Mafia is who we are after.

[JazzRed]

I've changed my mind.

Unvote: FinalFear ... Vote: Night Stalker

Why the change? I re-read gslamm's post and he has a good point. There are a lot of holes in his claim and besides, the same logic I used to vote FinalFear can be used with Night Stalker, only in reverse.

[JazzRed]

I haven't claimed, though. I am a cop, if that helps.

lol, I feel stupid now. I was taking your role off of someone elses list and you kept mentioning background checks and such so w/e. O and thnx for cleaning that up. Anyways, what do you (everyone) think we should do. Really people, I don't think we need drag this day on any longer. After all, we have gotten everyone to claim.

[JazzRed]

Riven, if you look closely on the first page, you will see that the kill was not just from

a

machine gun but

several

machine guns. What I don't like about this whole no lynch is what if some of the "inspectors" are mafia who are just trying to get a free kill. As for why there was no kill last night, I don't know, but I do know I don't like the idea of no lynch.

[JazzRed]

Fishbulb, I think there is another flaw in your plan: You think the investigations will clear up the Carnegie v Symphony mafia issue, but wouldn't you likely get a "guilty" or "mafia" result whenever you investigate a member? I still don't see how no lynch gets us anywhere.

[JazzRed]

I'm still not liking the no lynch plan. Exactly what are the specific abilities all you investigators claim to have? I still have the feeling I'll come up evil as results of investigations....

Anyhow, I still see no way this no-lynch plan does any good. Especially if some of the inspectors aren't inspectors (I know I've said this before, but I still see no reason to believe otherwise).

[JazzRed]

What I said to Captain Happy? Not a word, seeing as how he was all dead and stuff . But ya, he was on our payroll, which made the first night deaths even worse. Not only did we lose a cop, we lost a crooked cop and I didn't even get to find out what he could do . Still not liking the No Lynch plan... Maybe lynch whoever hasn't posted the longest?

[JazzRed]

Vote: Night Stalker

There was still a mafia kill + your evil mafia = time to lynch you. Oh, and you're taking credit for the assassinations? Why would a vigilante kill night 1? Unless you're a hella stupid vig (who killed a cop!) there is no way you can explain making a kill night 1. Me thinks you got some explaining to do come Monday.

[JazzRed]

Why would a vigilante kill night 1? Unless you're a hella stupid vig (who killed a cop!) there is no way you can explain making a kill night 1.

He doesn't have to. That was Viarostultega, a newbie. We've already been over this. ...Not that I am exonerating Night Stalker.

You've got a point, but I still think Night Stalker's evil. Think about this - I'm in a pro-town mafia and all I can do is talk to my fellow member. Why would there be another pro town mafia that has a doctor and a vigilante? I don't believe it. And if they are pro-town anyone mind telling me who

is

doing the killings? Until someone proves that my vote stays with Night Stalker.

[JazzRed]

Really?? Well I checked you out last night.. and guess what.. it said you were with Coolbot... Care to explain?

If you made the report, how did you find out that he was with CoolBot? Well, seeing as how I have no reason to not believe you (and because you people are so reluctant to lynch Night Stalker) I will...

Unvote: Night Stalker and
Vote: gslamm

[JazzRed]

Here's something to keep in mind about the "You win if you survive the game" thing. My role didn't even have a win condition originally. Being an ex-mobster, I wasn't sure who my role wanted to win. I then PMed the mod and asked. His reply was that you win if the town survives. My point is that I don't think mneme made it a point to have all the pro-town roles have the same win condition (meaning they all weren't phrased the same way).

[JazzRed]

Night Stalker: By ex-mafia I meant more along the lines of "I don't kill anymore". My win condition does not require you to be dead - unless of course you are evil in which case it is (duh!).

Now, I'm willing to lynch FinalFear, Night Stalker, or gslamm as I'm very suspicious of all of them. I'm sure all of you can go and read 'bout why I think what I do so let's pick one and go with it.

[JazzRed]

Dear lord, this game was upside down. Evil cops, good mafia (one of which is better than the other). Sheesh. I guess the fact that my PM put the guilt on the Symphony mafia wasn't helpful, it was damaging. Definitely not a good setup for my first game . It was ingenious though. I tip my hat to you mneme!