Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Plum]

BOYS! GO TO YOUR ROOMS!

[Plum]

Guess who thinks that over eight pages between my lunchtime and my last period Physics class is way too many.

I’ve reviewed the player list. Of those players I am familiar with the player I feel is most likely going to be a potential problem long-term for the Investigators (regardless of alignment) is Furcolow. This is based on direct personal experience and the end of Stars Aligned II.

Honestly this is a yes, but thing (with the but including the fact that he did stalk my last scummate and other factors I feel about Furc in general).

Noise claiming: as per experience of replacing into SAII, probably won't hurt much and might help in the long run. Am probably supportive.

I just remembered that there's another juicy benefit to a Noise/No Noise and Ward Target claim, but I won't give it away until after a massclaim.

Color me interested.

Q: I'm a Cultist. What can I do on Night 0?
A: The first thing you should do is talk to your fellow Cultists in your quicktopic. On the first Night, you should be looking to perform Craft Fetish on multiple targets, as well as choosing Search to get Equipment that will help your side later on (such as a Resuscitation Kit)

funny that you searched for a resuscitation kit when it tells cultists to do that night 0, RC

Oh for goodness' sake, at this point we can't tell if it's null or what. Later in the game we might get a sense of how many Cultists did search for that sort of Equipment and which player who claim to have searched for Equipment Night 0 would be more suspicious. Basically, this may have worth, but not now, so keep it under your hat. Without context it's probably a nulltell.

His eagerness to confirm himself is noted.

That's pretty typical of Furc in general as far as I know. That you tarted off the game voting him for policy-based reasons I had as null (because it's as good a very very early vote as any, I suppose); that you continue to press certain issues which are inherent in his playstyle (which should be at least somewhat known to you if you read through SAII, no?) worries me.

Hey, RC! <3 - I've forgotten how much I enjoy playing with you. Was it just that short time in Thrillville? Plus helping hash out The Brave and the Beautiful a bit?

The way I figured, most of the players who heard noise will have been either stalked or crafted fetishes on, those who were warded will be a minority. Why would you blindly ward someone, with no idea of their alignment?

People who want to go Murderer will be stalking and Cult will be crafting Fetishes on strong players. The strong players, generally, have %75 chance of being Town in general, right? Ward is a good way to help minimize the chances of strong Townies being put in positions where they'll be killed or gaining Insanities. Ward is a pretty strong Night choice for Investigators, I think.

Also Furc needs to clear up the ward issue, but based on what he's told us, his target can confirm whether or not they heard noise.

Here's my problem with that - if he is Cult fake-claiming Ward all he has to do is claim to have Warded someone the Cult successfully crafted a fetish of. His claimed target is very likely to have heard noises. If they didn't its even a dumber gambit than I thought it might be. And with Daytalk Cult certainly can coordinate that even if Furc didn't Craft himself.

But if then the Cult can't pass a Fetish of that player or kill that player the next Night without exposing the lying claimed-Warder. It's not confirmatory, but it's a bit more risky for Cult to fake than you might think. EDIT: Feysal saw that too. Why didn't you, MoI?

I heard noise, which is kind of disconcerting. I think I'm probably a likely target to die early based on my performance last game...which would piss me the hell off since I've been looking forward to this game for awhile now.

Well, now that we know we can figure out how we want to approach the situation at any rate.

Bowser's vote is opportunistic and silly.

Vote: Bowser

True that.

Just saying, if furcolow is telling the truth about warding dripperith, then it makes sense as to why he was redirected to us.

Comments later.

I think I see why, yes.

While I'm hear:

No Noise, no Ward

. I liked Ward but didn't choose it for a specific reason, so.

I'm saying if someone wanted to say "I stalked ____", and then they perform the kill, they are confirmed town
I also said this could be bad if they decide to act pro-town, wait a night or two, and then stalk again when we don't expect it.
That is why I'm against that theory, though it could really benefit us to have confirmed town at all (why I'm not sure about my wagon)

I like this too, don't get me wrong. In general I think it's preferable if Townies who plan on staying that way wait a Night or preferably

two

before making the allowable one Stalk/one Murder - it minimizes the chances of temptation to go Murderer (because missing two Nights would make the wincon almost impossible) and increases the chances of kills hitting scum (more Days = more info to go on). There are multiple players I'd be interested in seeing do this.

SPYREX? FRIEND OF MY HEART? WE BOTH LOVE A GOOD VIG KILL, EVEN IF WE HAVE TO LIMIT OURSELVES TO ONLY ONE, NO? BONUS CONFIRMS YOU TOWN. PLEASE REMEMBER THIS AND GET BACK TO ME IN A COUPLE OF DAYS, 'KAY?

Hai guys.
Avatar and stuff coming.
We're actually (Elli/DGB/Katsu) not 2 of the 3 or whatever.
Yeah.
More later.

How big do they let Hydras grow these days?

Also, Anybody who took cower night 0 (for whatever reason) needs to claim so immediately.

Really...what a wasted statement. Claiming this is saying "hey I am a huge dumbass".

Nice to see who the big dumbasses are early, methinks.

Since when is Fate a girl? Yeah, I thought so.

Benmage, take the long view plz?

lol

I don't think fate reads rules

I did, it took awhile, and I don't remember all of it.

Are you implying there's no way I can stop Benmage from killing me?

Is there a way someone else can ward me?

Or Rez you.

Fate, your behavior is clearly anti-town.

Unvote; Vote: Fate

Benmage is town.

Preview Edit: Yeah. I love my vote now. More votes, please.

VOTE: Bowser

Seacore's "WHAT ME? CULT WITH FATE?" is off-putting, whereas Hito's "well you can count me as #3" is more relaxed and town.

Now we're talking.

I have a problem. I NEED Benmage to carry out his kill tonight otherwise he drowns us in WIFOM stew. Do not want. On the other hand, am very much leaning Town on Fate. HALP.

Mod: I believe Fate either needs to be replaced, or be given a severe warning. His posts are breaking the civility line a lot.

Furcolow, I can vote you right back. You are high on my scumlist.


1...2....3....4....5....6...7...8 times I got ninja'd.

Scum or idiot or both? And anyway Fate's play has been no more offensive that Benmage's, as far as I can tell. I'd have nearly confirmed Fate-Investigator is Bowser's scum, but I'm getting ahead of myself and indulging in something I generally forbid myself. Well, carry on.

"Rising to the occasion" is replacing out YOURSELF if you don't like a player, not trying to beat them out of a game you want to play.

QFT.

To everyone claiming that Fur is 100% cleared – you are deluding yourself.

El Gooski only confirms that he was targeted by some action. It does not guarantee that action was a Ward. It can just as easily be a Craft Fetish action.

You seem to have a fetish regarding Furc (pun intended, sorry, but the point stands).

Of course my opinion is best only I know myself to be town.

Err I hate phone posting...at work now....I only know my alignment, not others so I don't adhere usually to other influences....and yes I think highly of my abilities.

so you're claiming the majority is not going to be town? when you say that you "don't adhere to other influences", if the entire player list voted, it would be 75% town. It would also show us alignment based upon voting, and this issue is very polarizing so it would help us get information.

encouraging you all to vote on whether or not he should do the kill

... The rules never said how many people are scum

VOTE: Furcolow

Another idiot or scumbag, not even touching the question of how confirmed or note Furc is. Pretty sure the general ratio for these games is around that. This means nothing; it's lazy faked scumhunting as sin. And anyway as AV stated, it does state it, so.

Q) What are everyones' thoughts on everyone stalking and killing one person? I feel this could help the town.

EVERYONE? No. Multiple players, slightly later in the game, monitored with reasonable care? HELL YES. Take a Vig kill which confirms you as Investigator is a win/win once we're fairly sure the Murderer route is untenable for the player in question.

kills have flavor

Then I'm for testing Benmage's kill.

Kills have flavor even if Rezzed away, yeah? If so, count me in.

SpyreX - decentish point on AV. I be thinking. I dunno.

In other news, anybody who things I'm cult

with Fate just because I disbelieve Benmage has perfect meta

is a moron.

SEACORE IS SCUM. CULT. WHATEVER. HE NEEDS TO GO.

FATE I'M HERE MAN. I'M WITH YOU.

ANDRIUS, don't knock Furc. Furc can be golden.

this caps lock thing feels really unnatural from andrius.

He does it sometimes, but I've only ever seen him play as scum, really.

Unvote; Vote SEACORE.

MAYYYYYYBE.

SPYREX we need more goodness from you, less I dunno what. Fine analysis, but the spark of life needs fanning maybe.

tl;dr

Bowser wagon is about as good, maybe a bit better than Seacore wagon.

Furc is very prob-Town, RC is good, Fate seems good. Catfighting seems bad.

[Plum]

im happy with my vote on bowser
following plum is my new favorite mafia hobby
thanks for thinking of me as the most pro-town
if we form an alliance plum is in or i am out
i believe she has been the most pro-town so far, not myself
i haven't seen her as scum, yet, to my knowledge though.

plum, do you have a game as scum you would share with me?

Furc <3 <3 <3 I was scum in Stars Aligned II (replaced Sarag Day 2); I also replaced into The Town Council of Millicent, which I think is more representative, but I dunno. Those are two different sides of my scum meta spectrum I think.

i haven't seen her(Plum) as scum, yet, to my knowledge though.

Plum-scum hates being scum, therefore lurks. 8D.

Not strictly true, and there have been games I have been Town in and never really got into hence lower contributions during periods of the game. But this is a tendency, yes.

More later; I'm tired but am self-centered enough to post about me.

[Plum]

Oh Plum, there is a reason why I call Fate a she....but you'd probably not like it.

Fine, then don't share it. I'm happy enough being the only proper girl around here.

G-D, Andrius, enough with the all-caps. You're reminding me of scum-Andrius from Thrillville on that alone, ugh. Fate only uses it sometimes, and it's cuter when he does it. Take it off, pretty please. Even if you've got lots of adrenaline on.

//will not point out that i was neglected in Plum's WoT
///WoT = Wall of Text, not War on Terror, though <3 Sociopath

You just did. I won't neglect you now: you do not have a Townread. I usually can get Townreads on cool friends pretty quickly, so this is a bad sign (also a bad sign on SpyreX for the record).

As for furc, I still think he is cult, but the only thing holding me back is what Hito said about the rule discrepancy in the early game so I need to consider that in the grand scheme of things. In the meantime, his posting is so scummy, and his self proclaimed VI-town frustration does not match behavior I have observed. Plus what Percy said about matching names and targets, with a default action of Cower.

So your top scumpick is . . . ?

Ben is probably the scummiest player I've noticed on my first read but I'd rather see him prove his town credentials via him killing Fate than lynching him.

So we are going to start lynching people to prove they are town? That doesn't sound like a very good plan to me. If Fate is dead tomorrow we'll eventually be able to determine if he was a cult or investigator killed him.

You make no sense. You're arguing with AV but agreeing with him? This just looks like gratuitous dirt, which frankly is what all of your Post 347 feels like to me. Plus the fake-content Insanity discussion tacked on at the end, I dunno.

You know how scum love to FOS their buddies because they can express fake suspicion without having to worry about the consequences? Imagine someone walking in to a game saying "Yeah, I can only FOS or hammer. Doctors orders. Got my prescription right here." Feel the terrible seething hatred in your gut towards that player. That's what happens when we allow Sadism.

This person. Is a smart and good person. You have my word on that. Also, word to the wise, we do get kill flavor.

Ward seems a suboptimal scum action N0 from my understanding of the rules.

Enlarged for those hard of comprehension.

I feel that there's a suggestion of guilt around Benmage, I don't think he's necessarily Cult, but remember, being an Investigator does not make you "Town".

Ben's suggestion that InvestiFate would have targetted him for a night action but CultiFate would not have is a serious logical gap. In the 438 posts the two of them have made, has this been discussed?
Ben's attack on me for saying "I think your meta is stupid", he declares that I am definitely scum, this smacks of not caring who he paints as scum. Note, he didn't just say I was acting scummy, he declared me definitely scum.
Stalk Night 0 is not a town action. He wants us to trust that he won't kill again, and that he was taking an insanity point to murder another player before any tells on that player could be revealed and that that was a town action.

Personally, I think Benmage is an investigator who wants to go Murderer. At the very least he's an investigator, planning on staying an investigator, but is willing to spend two night actions on doing something that has a 75% chance of being anti-town.

Oh hi, scum. Benmage can be a pain, yes. Again, remember that misvigging in this game is mitigated by the high chance of being able to confirm who did it and that the player isn't Cult. This is . . . wishy-washy, tentatively putting in a word to help make Benmage a good future target of suspicion even if people don't feel like touching him today. Scum like to map out roads of potential mislynches. So yeah.

I have town Meta fate not PTw. You can drink all the wine about how shell act as scum. I suggested she's following the cult unit because she can't solo kill me

Either way, you've behaved incredibly anti-town and, assuming nobody digs themselves in deeper, I'd be happy to see you hang for it.

Anti-Town != scum. Nice plicy lynch in disguise thar. Sometimes I tolerate those who push policy lynches openly, if I have reason to believe that it's a nulltell for them. This is insidious.

So, even with the two assumptions, a) that you're not cult and b) that you wouldn't go murderer, we still have you doing something which is so incredibly anti-town. You rarely get a better reason to lynch somebody day 1.

Lol I prefer lynching anti-Town players whom I assume are Town over scum suspects or searching for players actually acting scummy lol.

Seacore, you're focusing on Benmage on what has become a fairly stale issue (my understanding is that Benmage realizes the mistake in his position and no longer intends to follow through on the Fate stalk - please correct me if I'm wrong) and ignoring pretty much everything else. Benmage v. Fate was a distraction that we finally seem to have smoothed over. You trying to keep it alive is annoying enough on it's own. Throw in the fact that you're tunneling Benmage and ignoring basicially the rest of the thread, and that you've literally just said "I think you're scum, but if my arguments for why you're scum don't work, it's a policy lynch," and I am a seriously unhappy hito. Yes, Benmage acted childishly coming in here - and now that's he's showing signs of contrition and maturity, you desperately scrabbling to secure the mislynch is giving me bad vibes.

VOTE: Seacore

^^ Goodposting.

REMEMBER, Benmage can, as far as I can recall, attempt to kill Fate and if Fate gets Rezzed and saved from a kill he'll know it. Even if scum have a Fetish of him and kill him over the Rez it'll. Damn I thought there was a way for it to come out in the wash, but I can't remember what it could be. I think it was we would get claimed Rezzes on Fate and see how they stacked up vs. how many kills we expected on him given Ben attempting to Murder. Basically, I think we can still turn this into a win-win, despite all of the rage.

I'll

Vote: SpyreX

because I'm still not really sure why he's so sure both Benmage and Fate are town.

Scumtell there in what way exactly?

There is no ambiguity in targeting a hydra which is the basis of a hydra in this game. The intention was quite as clear as seaching for a Forensics Kit onstead of Forensics Tools. Lost Butterfly, don't be an idiot and reverse the Townpoints Mina earned . . . too late.

I'm satisfied that Furcolow has been caught

Vote Furcolow

Nice job, scum.

GREAT town players find my playstyle effective, though crude, and generally keep me alive because I am so obvious due to meta

It's nice to know I've reached a point in my Mafia career where I'm considered a great player.

The next Epiphany is somewhat subjective but geared for anyone calling fate town
For if you reached the first Epiphany and believe fate to be town the next step is zomg benmage shouldn't kill fate.

No. As explained above, optimal play is at least one Investigator with a Rez kit targets Fate and you try to kill Fate. This is likely to help confirm you (because if you're Rezzed and saved from a kill your flavor will indicate that) while keeping probTown Fate alive.

However to attempt to be pushing my lynch already when I've been nothing but. Been forthright in my actions is opportunistic scum or poor town play. I basically said here's a huge magnifying glass observe my every move....if I was going for a tough wc there could be a ton better ways to go about this....because like it or not, I'm pretty smart, and pretty decent at these games.

Ahhhhhhhh, goodposting. TRUE THIS.

MEANING....

Andy is likely cult.

Oh yes. The rope.

*rummages in backpack*

I got it. But Seacore first, please?

Ba-a-A-A--a-aD pipl:

MagnaofIllusion
Fate
AuroraVox
BabySpice
Plum

Which head is posting this plz?

Voting and such in next post; I like to keep certain things distinct and that means not locked up in wallposts.

[Plum]

VOTE: Seacore

Am not impressed with Baby Spice either; if nice people really want to wagon him I'll look into it and would be unsurprised to find myself liking the idea a decent amount.

Town Alliance of Awesome

Plum
ReaperCharlie
hitorogoshi

RC and Hito, suggestions for other members? I like to keep my Townreads working like a well-oiled machine <3

REMEMBER, Benmage can, as far as I can recall, attempt to kill Fate and if Fate gets Rezzed and saved from a kill he'll know it. Even if scum have a Fetish of him and kill him over the Rez it'll. Damn I thought there was a way for it to come out in the wash, but I can't remember what it could be. I think it was we would get claimed Rezzes on Fate and see how they stacked up vs. how many kills we expected on him given Ben attempting to Murder. Basically, I think we can still turn this into a win-win, despite all of the rage.

[Plum]

Town Alliance of Awesome
Plum
ReaperCharlie
hitorogoshi

RC and Hito, suggestions for other members? I like to keep my Townreads working like a well-oiled machine <3

Furcolow.

Also I vote that we are The Brofessionals in honor of Furcolow. You don't need to feel slighted, Plum, because Bro is a state of mind and not gender-specific.

Maybe Spyrex can be a bro too. I think I like his points on AV but I have literally zero operating knowledge of AV because I can't remember a single point he (? just guessing with no listed gender) made. I'll need to ISO spy and AV (day and a half and I have to resort to ISO's, hot damn) and try to find my position in the conflict. Also since there seems to be some brahgnotive dissonance on whether the most apbroriate wagon is Baby Spice or Seacore, I'll try to run a comparison between the two. Before the fact I feel that Seacore's tunneling and "if you're not scummy, this is a policy lynch" trumps Baby Spice going after a point that maybe a townie could believe in, but there's never any harm in listening to my bros.

DUH Furc. Brainfreeze on my part. I wouldn't go without Furc in the brotherhood. And I'm happy to be a bro. Not sure about SpyreX being a bro which would be a first, just about. That said so much stuff in so little time in this threas means it's just as likely I'm missing some good stuff from him. I'd be okay either way. Oh wait - I could go for Fate and/or Benmage too, but it could just derail the point, so.

Sunk costs are an economic fallacy. Ben wasted his N0 action, but that doesn't mean he should waste his N1 action and a rez kit just to confirm himself and make use of his stalk. You can deal with having to prove your alignment by behavior in-thread like the rest of us, with the added bonus that you get a huge head start because your actions are super unlikely from a scum viewpoint. Sure it could be scum WIFOM, which means you will still have to contribute some content to prove your good intentions. It's not worth burning a rez kit and some night actions just to absolve you of this responsibility.

Hmph, fine. Still think that in this specific circumstance it'd be better, but you point is decent and sensible, so I won't argue. That said, if we don't trust Benmage not to kill Fate and we think Fate's Town, what then?

Quality work, beautiful to watch some of the most contested players in the game scramble to make it into the kool kids klub. Well trolled.

??????????

[Plum]

Plum. For the record, I always liked you. (well, a little bit).

I knew that, but I appreciate it being expressed in a way that doesn't make Papa Zito want me to Modkill you

Seacore is town because his crumb+motives are very clear to me. Can't say more without outing his claim, which I would like to avoid as there are much better targets out there today.

Hmmmmm? Quuue? I don't mean you should out any important information, but I have no clue what you're talking about and YEAH.

Also two people claimed to have Warded the same person. Guess what this could mean?

[Plum]

It

might

, but it's even more likely - again without looking back over certain things - that it's the flip side of what you're thinking. But we are thinking along the same lines, so we're great.

*half a cookie*

[Plum]

Also two people claimed to have Warded the same person. Guess what this could mean?

Your action will fail if someone targets you with Ward, and you will not be notified of the failure.

Unfortunately it proves nothing as it only fails if situations goes like:
Player A wards Player B.
Player B wards Player C.
Player B Fails ward.

Both are successful if:
Player A and B ward Player C.

It's nothing near confirmatory. But.

What I'm saying is, Ward is a pretty unlikely scum action N0. You follow?

[Plum]

I'm also starting to think, "Do you think Benmage, Fate, and Furcolow are all town, and not particularly likely to go murderer" should be this game's official litmus test of intelligence and/or innocence.

Wait, what do you think is the correct answer?

[Plum]

I'm also starting to think, "Do you think Benmage, Fate, and Furcolow are all town, and not particularly likely to go murderer" should be this game's official litmus test of intelligence and/or innocence.

Wait, what do you think is the correct answer?

I thought the obvious implication was "Yes." I can justify why I think this, if people are interested, but I've already wasted too much breath defending Furcolow.

Do you disagree?

No, I don't disagree. I was worried you might.

[Plum]

I'd like to line up lynches from whoever has the highest word count in this game, to whoever has the least.

Unfortunately that puts our basically confirmed Investigator Furcolow right at the top of the list

[Plum]

unvote;
vote: seacore

even if this guy is town, he will not help us
he obviously is incapable

But what's worrying me is that there's one or two people who DO think that there's really good reason to believe he's Town. I'm not seeing it, but. I want to know.

[Plum]

unvote;
vote: seacore

even if this guy is town, he will not help us
he obviously is incapable

Wow, just wow. What exactly have you brought to the game Furc? Your list of certain scum? Please wait until I'm lynched and revealed as somebody with 0 insanity points before you answer that.

Is this the person who wanted to lynch Benmage because if nothing else he was anti-Town and what better lynch could you expect Day 1?

Because all I'm saying is that's kinda rich, mister super-defensive I-have-zero-insanities (and excuse me? So you're Cult who got a Rez Kit last Night or something? What's zero insanities supposed to be proving, anyway?).

Hey Seacore: are you cult?

Let me quickly confer in my QT...


No, I'm an investigator.

That's a special response.

[Plum]

Uh, no, just seeing you as Investigator will be enough, thanks.

Response to RC's questions might've been just 'No, not Cult' - as opposed to joking around a bit; admittedly it's not much of a tell, hence the 'special' response to it.

Still v. rich coming from you. The question was rhetorical, so a literal response doesn't count for much.

[Plum]

Well if you FLIP Investigator no one's going to go 'HERP DERP HE MIGHT BE A MURDERER'. Before they go Psycho, Murderers can be reformed or even just be misguided Townies who eant to stay Investigator. And besides, what if someone wanted to go Murderer and took Denial last Night HUH Mister wiseguy? In conclusion, your premise is full of holes.

Sorry, but I'm going after Cult until we actually get people Murdering. Benmage doesn't count because claimed one-time Murdering Investigators make it almost impossible for them to win or do damage as Murderers if the Town doesn't fall over dead drunk.

Though you

can

[ only get an Insanity from Ward if you Ward someone who's dead, so that happens to be inapplicable.

[Plum]

I'm not saying you were, I'm saying that given your position on Benmage this was a bit . . . yeah:

unvote;
vote: seacore

even if this guy is town, he will not help us
he obviously is incapable

Wow, just wow. What exactly have you brought to the game Furc? Your list of certain scum? Please wait until I'm lynched and revealed as somebody with 0 insanity points before you answer that.

Lost Butterfly:

1. I need to reread SpyreX, but the immediate honing in on one single target in such a big Day 1 and the longish, long-thought seeming posts smacked more of scum that Town given SpyreX. That said it could be a function of something else, possibly the size/speed of the game. I'm not certain.

2. RC I have experience with from Thrillville Mafia. That said I could try later to figure out what's making it so clear, but for now I'll have to assume that various form s of meta have assimilated into my brain.

[Plum]

Seacore - what's your point regarding Furc, again?

[Plum]

Ah, I see the time paradox now.
My above post was in response to Furclow's 1:10 pm post

Question stands.

[Plum]

Seacore - what's your point regarding Furc, again?

Depends what you mean.

I find him scummy. I'm not satisfied by his claims. Lies, in my books, are always scummy, and if I ever catch somebody in one, I like to lynch them.

That being said, it is clear now that a majority of people are not willing to lynch Furc on Day 1 for this.
I accept that, I'm a realist, so now I'm moving on.

The only reason I have kept talking about Furc since my unvote has been pretty much to defend myself against the accusation that my attack on him was scummy. Which is tricky because it looks like I'm making a case that I'm not pushing for.

Then why are you arguing with him about whether his reads are correct or not? If you really believe he's lying, wouldn't the obvious explanation be 'it's all scum fabrications to me anyway' from your point of view? Granted I might be missing a few things between chronogate and sheer information overload of the thread (be doing a Baby Spice read tonight/when chronogate has been resolved, methinks).

Let me ask you something Furc.
Put on your "hypothetical hat"
What happens if you lynch me today, I reveal as investigator after a graverob.
D2 you decide to lynch LB, because hey, you can't be wrong twice can you? But then they reveal as investigator.

What would you be doing Day 3?
And will you admit your reads are wrong on that day?

[Plum]

Fate, I love you, but this is the same problem you had when you rabidly went for mith's throat the other night. A reason to want a certain player lynched beyond the actual game information (here, because of how our last game just panned out with you and me combined the realization that under certain circumstances I can fool almost an entire game as scum) contributes to confirmation bias. It's understandable that it happens, but it colors judgment in ways unrelated to actual scumminess of your target.

There are certain things you ought to be counting as 'questioning Seacore's play' or the equivalent thereof. Like so:

Seacore's "WHAT ME? CULT WITH FATE?" is off-putting, whereas Hito's "well you can count me as #3" is more relaxed and town.

Now we're talking.

Not to mention me calling him out on 'even if Benmage is an Investigator and planning on staying that way he's still a great Day 1 lynch because his play is so anti-Town' (when in fact it was not as anti-Town as he proposed and anti-Town Townread lynch is always suboptimal compared to a scum suspect lynch for obvious reasons. I found it contrived and thought it had a reasonable chance of being scum motivated. I found it . . .

questionable

even if I didn't phrase it as a question. You get my drift?

You're right that my play was focusing overmuch on Seacore, something I intend to remedy (but was related to the huge glut of information around. If I can find someone to focus on and feel out, well, at this point its more than I might otherwise be able to say).

Do I need to waste more breath on this, Fate?

[Plum]

...

Your joking response which you have apparently not commented on but saved a reference to for no purpose stated is also noted.

Seriously, this isn't a thing where you'll have more info later to judge whether it's a scumtell or not. If you find it mildly scummy or whatever, say so outright; that doesn't in and of itself bother me. If you don't, well, don't. It's distracting and provides nothing but extra filler, a possible note for something scum can twist to their ends later, and frankly I still associate you joking around with you being scum, but that's peripheral.

If you think it's scummy that I responded quickly, say so. Don't be afraid to comment. Be a man.

[Plum]

You expected this; does that mean you were expecting me to act like you as scum?

I don't mind having fun, honestly, but when you make an ambiguous statement about someone's actions and pass it off with a wink and leave the door open for it to be called a scumtell later, well, that sets some bells ringing, you see.

[Plum]

Again, you want to be right about someone no one else now suspects and you want to be right; and you know that I can look Town as scum - which in and of itself has no bearing on my alignment this game. Restate your case on me given my response and we'll work from there. I'm pretty confident you're Investigator and I'm interested in dealing with this, but if you go all broken heart rage it will be hard for anything useful to come out of our discussion.

SpyreX, what say you to Fate here?

Andrius, you're right, I haven't posted in a bit. Probably I'll be talking to Fate about it soon, but if I don't and you need it, give me a shout.

[Plum]

EXACTLY.

Anything for me, Fate?

[Plum]

WHY ARE YOU CONCERNED ON HAVING FURTHER TOWN ON TOWN ACTION PLUM?

HMMM?

HMMMMMMMMMMMM?

Because if it's not taken to the point that it hurts the game, Town on Town discussion aimed at figuring out which reads are right/wrong is good when there's a disagreement. Unless you meant something different.

While we're on the subject, I see you in Preview and know I need to reread RC but my Townread on him initially was pretty decent.

[Plum]

I meant why did you want me to have questions for you, when you have me read as town?

Almost like you wanted to "ease any crazy" concerns I might have.

EH YOU MANIPULATIVE WOMAN?

You already seemed to have issues with me and I couldn't tell if it was resolved on your end but I didn't think so, then you switched over to talking about SpyreX on something I agreed with and I couldn't tell whether/to what degree you still thought there were things we needed to discuss about me, so I asked. Not 'OH YOU HAVE CRAZY CONCERNS LET'S EASE THEM UP NOW' but 'YOU HAD CONCERNS AND I'M NOT SURE IF WE FINISHED THAT DISCUSSION OR NOT, SO HAVE WE OR WHAT?'.

[Plum]

On the Topic of Cult re the Furc Fiasco

– I’ve seen multiple people make statements that anyone who questioned Furc’s status as Investigator past Page 3 (or some other arbitrary point) and I disagree completely. Furc’s explanation for his actions and general play were scummy and obscuring regarding his alignment. I’m going to suggest what I always think in circumstances – you are more likely to find Cult hiding among those people who are steadfastly assured of Furc’s innocence immediately despite his play (even before rule changes and responses from Percy), since the Cult would know he is an Investigator. ReaperCharlie, VV and VP Baltar are players who come to mind immediately.

Yes and no. You'll be apt to find scum all along the continuum in that case. And hey, lemme ask, you call Furc's behavior scummy and then say that Cult know he's Investigator. So which is he, or what?

BECAUSE I AM AN EVILMASTERMIND THAT SCUM FEAR AND KILL N1.

*CACKLES*

NOW HURRY UP AND GET THIS WAGON OFF YOU SEACORE SO WE CAN MOVE ON TO SERIOUS BUSINESS.

I'm trying, but people seem to need more convincing. Maybe I should die and be revealled as town, then people will stop voting for me.

I'm going to move on to RC as well though, maybe a few more prods will actually get an answer to the question he's been dodging for a while.

UNVOTE: AV VOTE: RC

Another thing which doesn't make me reconsider my Seacore read. Vote on a wagon excused as vote for reactions (don't we teach people in Newbie games that if you say a vote is for reactions it loses it's effectiveness? Given that, why would Seacore say so if that was his intention?). And all of a sudden go to earnest defender/explainer of the wagon to SpyreX?

3) He asked a "confused" question about how cultists work that a) should have been easy to check by going to the OP and b)involved a level of ignorance that is unlikely. In short, he claimed to believe cultists could just do ritual like a normal mafia NK, that the fetish was unrelated. This doesn't explain why there was no night kill N0. It just doesn't add up.

Eh, this is a nulltell - or more accurately, unless we have more information we can't definitively say the ignorance was faked or scummy. The things I've seen people NOT fake are astounding. Please refer to zoroaster in /Invitational Pick Your Poison 5 for why I feel this, but. The best thing to do with this information is file it away in case we somehow get our hands on information which might shed light on it.

That said RC isn't being cooperative/behaving as he should for maximum pro-Town efficiency in response to the wagon on him.

I can see what you mean about ISO#38, but I disagree with your analysis of

why

ISO#46 is scummy. If his #46 has scummy motivations, I don't think it's what you're seeing, because he called Hito scummy for IMPLYING he wanted to volunteer rather than saying it explicitly himself, i.e. he's accusing Hito of trying to allow someone else to suggest it to avoid seeming suspicious. If it's scum motivated, then he's explicitly volunteering himself in order to not be accused of hypocrisy - he hasn't acted hypocritically.

I say "if it has" because I'm not sure how serious he was about putting himself forwards.

As for him being manipulative...now that you mention it, I'm worried that he got on board with my Baby Spice vote in order to manipulate me into thinking he was town. What I mean is, at the time, I was under a lot of pressure from SpyreX, and when RC said "this post is win" it made me pretty pleased that someone had seen something good that I had done and I hadn't considered that scum would do that (my thought being scum would fuel my mislynch). But if he's scum, then by that action alone, he definitely got me on his side until now.

You good, incisive, introspective Townie. We could use ten more like you. About VV's RC case I'm of two minds - on the one hand I agree with AV above, on the other I don't think that 'daring' to attack Hito is necessarily a good scum move, even (given that sticking with obvTown Hito is a good way to not rock the boat and to get associated with Hito in everyone's minds - there could be scum motivations thar too, of course, but not enough to go on as to which side of the spectrum it's coming from), on the other, yeah, it's weird and I'm not pleased he did that either. On the third hand, saying that VV was scummy for trying to cool down some of Furc's excessive spamming, no matter how obvTown Furc happen to be,

does

feel wrong.

Note to self: Don't forget to check back with Post1056.

MagnaofIllusion

please stop responding to anything about Furc being such a horrid VI that you wanted to off him immediately. Here's a question for you: why didn't you stalk him last Night, in that case, eh? In any case, you're wrong and I still find that initial play scummy. Thanks for reminding me.

ISO 4 – What in the hell are you trying to say here? Back there I posited that Furc could be passing of his own crafting of a Fetish on El Goo (which would cause El Goo to hear noise) as a Ward (which would also cause El Goo to hear noise). You attack that states the Ward would prevent a Fetish is factually correct but doesn’t even apply to my argument.

In which case Furc just threw away his team's ability to off El Goosuki or throw their slot an extra Insanity because they CANNOT use that Fetish without proving that Furc was lying Cult (because you can't craft a Fetish of someone you have a Fetish of, so any Fetish sent or used to Ritual El Goos would

have

to originate with Furc-Cult per this theory). BRILLIANT explanation there.

Plum - I figured she was town, but she is not taking control like i've seen her do as town

Some differences from the game you saw me in include the magnitude, speed, and density of this game, and also the fact that for part of last week I was concentrating on securing a scum win in a relatively stressful situation.

SpyreX, you worry me here.

RC is now being desperately anti-Town. Nice losing the mark of Townie there.

LB's catchup post is useless = bad news.

Trilo is also being stupid about Benmage even being a viable lynch from the trying-to-go-Murderer perspective. It's pretty clear that declaring you Stalked Night 1, and whom you stalked, is bad Murderer play and with relatively little Town power devoted to the project we can keep enough basic tabs on him to prevent this biting us in the back even if he would think to try anything funny.

Hey kunkstar7, what do you think of Plum?

Hell, what do

you

think of me???

Trilobyte’s 1085 is my exact problem with Seacore. Advocating lynching someone who MIGHT be a murderer 5 days from now doesn’t seem like a very solid tactic.

It's a handy way to push true mislynches now, though. And if you could get away with using this as your scumhunting technique as scum (which certainly makes it easier because you can hunt without implicating your buddies while still doing some sincere hunting or whatever, if that's the way you work) and without getting undue attention/receiving mixed, not negative, reviews for it . . . why not? It's

inherently

in scum's best interest to press lynches on Investigators, likely or not to go Murderer, right now. Anything that can be a front for that is a potential scum tactic.

I think you'll find that's completely unacceptable.

Whether people believe you are town, investigator or whatever, enough people agree that your declaration of your night action so far has been unclear and hardly dependable.

On top of this, you want to not tell us what your insanity is? That is definitely unacceptable. You will openly declare which one it is, so we can track it.

What's unacceptable about the confirmed townie robbing graves? That's awesome and wonderful. Seacore, it really sounds like you're trying to call up a deep well of suspicion on Furc that doesn't exist. I don't like the weaselly "enough people agree that your declaration of your night action so far has been unclear and hardly dependable." Which people where? You're extremely careful to distance yourself from these views. "Hey, I'm fine with you robbing graves, but

I think you'll find

that

enough people agree...

". If you STILL want to call Furc cult or murderer, do so. If you don't, don't try to strong-arm him out of helping the town with vague references to some fierce

other

.

That being said, Furc, I am curious why you don't want to claim insanities. I'm cool with not getting insanities from you (and only you) but I'd at least like a reason.

THIS RIGHT HERE YO.

I've been thinking about Baby Spice and xvart. My reason is that they both claimed to have warded MoI, and I consider the odds of them both lying to be minimal. Ward would be dangerous to false claim unless you knew your claimed target was warded by someone else.

Exactly. Doubt they both lied, of course (that's one person they can't kill or send a Fetish to this game unless they want to implicate two members of the Cult) but the odds of

one of them lying

is worth considering, especially given that Ward is not an action a scumbag is likely to take (especially on an Investigator, but claiming on a Cultbuddy might have other bad implications for them) - but they'd probably want to avoid all the claimed Warders from Night 0 being Investigators - makes for bad news if we get to the point of process of elimination, you see. That's just one big red mark all over xvart, given he claimed Ward on MoI afterwards, but I'm going to hold out for a little more info until I can make a full analysis of the situation there. It's not worth acting on Day 1 when we can say things with a lot more certainty in a Day or two from now.

(a) some cult not fake-claiming ward on their craft fetish target
(b) some cult claiming to have heard noise when they didn't
(c) some wannabe murderers on the loose

Mostly (a) - again, Cult almost certainly want to avoid claiming Ward on their targets of Craft Fetish. Augmented by a little bit of (b) and (c).

Curious what Plum thinks about the case on RC.

RC is playing too anti-Town for me and has been leaving a bad taste in my mouth, mostly for avoiding the questions aimed at him. The other arguments do little if anything for me; they're mostly nulltells as I see it. If I had a supercool alliance he'd be booted from it until he answered the questions properly and shaped up a little in the play-pro-Town department, then be kept on strict surveillance and scrutinized closely before being considered for reentry, if at all. In other words, I am unimpressed and he worries me - much the same way SpyreX worries me. But he's not among my top picks for scum.

This goes back to post #680 and the posts that follow. Plum mentioned two players warding the same target, but she was really vague about what she thought it meant. When asked whether it had something to do with Baby Spice, she said it was more likely to be the flip side. I've never seen her follow up on this, despite saying she would read on Baby Spice. Basically I wonder if she has been avoiding the subject. So, her early posts look very much town, but her continuing suspicion of Seacore looks bad. The thought of Baby Spice and Plum being cult together has crossed my mind. Baby Spice is definitely more suspicious, but if she turns out to be cult, Plum could well be another.

I meant that it had to do with Baby Spice and xvart claiming Ward on the same person - but that it implicated xvart a heck of a lot more because he claimed it miles after Baby Spice did. That's what I meant by the flip side.

... Apparently now you think that Seacore is town? And not just marginally town, but now a shining townie with a good case on somebody else? Someone you trust so thoroughly that you will now commence sheepage on his case without even doing your own ISO?

Oh READ, why don't you - AV was saying that surprisingly, despite his bad feelings towards Seacore, he found Seacore's summaries of &c. with your wagon enlightening. That's not scummy, having someone you suspect Day 1 say things you agree with despite your misgivings towards that player.

I keep confusing Trilobite and Triglav.

FOSes of any sort ping my scumdar. Soometimes it's meta null, but STILL dislike Furpants Tom going all 'well Imma do an ISO' on the RC wagon. Smells like something overcompensating on justification.

Feysal is scummy because he's churning out stuff without doing much . . . hunting. By page 55 he's still stuck on Baby Spice and me, for the mediocre reasons I addressed above - has nothing since then perturbed the fellow, or his he faking scumhunting? Hell, he doesn't vote for ages and ages, despite posting walls upon walls of text. Doesn't comment on the ongoing RC wagon even after it's summarized to him until he does an ISO quite a few posts later? This is just ringing alarm bells, you see.

After reading the inital reasons for the wagon on RC I'm 50/50 as to whether he is scum or just lazy town making himself an easy target.

50/50 is pretty decent odds, you know. You have better odds on anyone else, or what?

[Plum]

tl;dr

People to keep an eye on

SpyreX
ReaperCharlie

People who are scummy

Feysal
xvart
MagnaofIllusion (MAYBE)
Seacore

People who are Town

hitogoroshi
Fate
Benmage
AurorusVox
VasudeVa (MAYBE)

[Plum]

PLUM! You are still voting Seacore when you promised to not focus on him anymore, you scummy whore!

You have forfeited any claim you had (and make no mistake, you had it) to my sincere friendship.

[Plum]

After reading the inital reasons for the wagon on RC I'm 50/50 as to whether he is scum or just lazy town making himself an easy target.

50/50 is pretty decent odds, you know. You have better odds on anyone else, or what?

Are you trying to egg him on to vote Reaper here or what?

Let him reply and I'll explain (use your noodle - two heads are better than one - and you might not need to wait for an explanation).

[Plum]

Plummmm </3

I need more than what you're givin me in regards to me.

My problem with you here is that you're not giving me enough in regard to you. I mean, I know your feelings about sheeping as Town. It usually doesn't include you sheeping in this way.

Your AV attack rubbed me ze wrong way. Actually now that I think about it I find it reminds me vaguely of your attack on Rhinox in the earlier stages of /Invitational Pick Your Poison 5 . . . I never understood that one, and I was your scumbuddy. With daytalk. It feels . . . forced. This is admittedly colored a bit more now with my current Townread on AV, and I know the temptation of tunnelling in a game so huge it's hard to get a grip on, but compared to a lot of stuff in the thread I'd expect you to see that the arguments you had on AV were no better and in my humble worse than plenty of other scumhunting avenues - but no, you continue to harp on AV being all 'I think Furc is Town but I'm keeping in mind that he could go Murderer and some things he's said have rubbed me the wrong way so I'll keep an eye on him but am uninterested in voting him'. When there are people whose contradictory attitudes in this arena (like the numerous people who made awkward or no transitions between 'Furc is lying scum' to 'Furc is basically confirmed Town' or awkwardly agree with neither and may be trying to subtly discredit Furc OR the people who're all 'let's lynch this guy who's probably not Cult but might go Murderer and anyway what's better than a Day 1 lynch of a true Townie who's playing somewhat anti-Town' *cough*Seacore*cough*) are clearly as questionable, you harp on this one guy no one else sees a case on. It's the early business I can't put out of my head right now.

I'll admit I had some worries reaper (which I'll get to) but they're gone now. GOD.

Sounds just like me when I was scum (directed at you when you were my scumbuddy, but that's peripheral - it just hurts on a gut level - feels like taking extreme care to lampshade your reads while still leaving the possibility of jumping on RC later wide open. Nice job

not

getting to those worries on RC and jumping on the wagon with no thoughts of your own.

This all makes me doubt the premise that I'm dealing with Town-SpyreX. In a game with this much noise I'm not seeing everything, and I may well be wrong. But I

have doubts

.

[Plum]

Benmage

can we talk about you

not

killing Fate tonight, [/i]please[/i]? Just you and me?

Why in such a rush to get "confirmed"?? If you wait one more night and stalk someone scummy, and D2 DONT CLAIM WHO IT IS IN THREAD, you be that much more likely to get a successful murder off that can't be fucked with by the cult (as my kill can and will)/

Damn good idea this here is. Ben?

[Plum]

PLUM! You are still voting Seacore when you promised to not focus on him anymore, you scummy whore!

You have forfeited any claim you had (and make no mistake, you had it) to my sincere friendship.

This better be a joke because

I

was obvoiusly joking/satiring with the women hate.

That said you're still scummy since you just posted yet another case on why "Seacore b scumz yo"

First of all, there are lines I draw even regarding things said in jest. I am not interested in a friendship with anyone who doesn't realize that and why it is not right, welcome, or acceptable to refer to me as a 'whore' in any context. If you do understand what I'm saying and want to discuss this further, drop me a line and we can talk about it - probably outside the game and its context.

Second of all, if there's a concrete reason you can point of (as you've cryptically stated before now) that Seacore is Town, if at all possible I'd prefer you point it out. I don't think, barring anomalies like the Furc situation (and the questionable play of Benmage, depending on other factors - he's semi-confirmed, if that), that this game lends itself to confirmed Townies. Without context I cannot judge the quality of this point against my biggest suspicions.

[Plum]

Uh huh, and a would-be Murderer would announce that in thread, ensuring that we monitor his actions closely, for what reason exactly?

I'm still looking to lynch Cult, okay? I doubt even that Murderer is vaguely viable for Benmage now.

[Plum]

Dangit, that was meant to be @Wraith but I forgot to edit after seeing the new posts on preview.

[Plum]

Yeah but as time wears on we can keep tabs on him via Oocult Books and other means to ensure he doesn't go above one Stalk/one Murder without us knowing and being able to respond, you see?

[Plum]

SpyreX, I did not meta you, so don't fake-accuse me or dismiss me as having done so. The bad feelings about your play are there regardless. The tunneling on AV when there were plenty of other players questionable in comparable ways (If you like Seacore, fine, but as far as I can recall we had multiple players acting badly around the Furc issue - MoI continuously trying to discredit Furc, Baby Spice dancing around early with FOSes and such, then going back on his vote out of too-scummy-to-be-scum in a highly weird and counterintuitive fashion, multiple others) . . . and you tunnel on AV almost exclusively at first?

Plus the sheeping. I feel most comfortable with you when you lead the sheep.

I'm far from sure you're scum, but I haven't heard anything from you which makes me feel it's not right to have doubts about your Investigatorhood.

PREVIEW EDIT: Hito's got some mad skillz. Yes. I'm usually pretty wary of associative tells before any flips have happened though. I want to think about it properly, not just skim that chunk of stuff in the preview window but good grief I think you're onto something there. BUT in that case the safer bet I'd almost want to say is on Fate, given that his switch from RC to Benmage implicates him more strongly than RC because he's the one with the not-fitting behavior there

and[/]i] the self-preservation thing as far as I can see stands even if RC isn't his buddy.

[Plum]

PREVIEW EDIT: Hito's got some mad skillz. Yes. I'm usually pretty wary of associative tells before any flips have happened though. I want to think about it properly, not just skim that chunk of stuff in the preview window but good grief I think you're onto something there. BUT in that case the safer bet I'd almost want to say is on Fate, given that his switch from RC to Benmage implicates him more strongly than RC because he's the one with the not-fitting behavior there

and[/]i] the self-preservation thing as far as I can see stands even if RC isn't his buddy.

Yeah, but we don't have someone ready to murder RC, now do we~

Ohhhhhhhh yes.

I will be giving this a proper look through - my reservations on RC weren't as great as yours but your post above yeah. Please hold for a bit.

PREVIEW EDIT:

But you're missing the point: I'm not cool. I'm not good enough, clearly. If I were I wouldn't have been rejected on Saturday.

You don't need to excuse yourself with self pity. You're a cool friend in my book, okay? Please be able to take yes for an answer <3.

[Plum]

Please be able to take 'yes I think you're cool' when I imply that for an answer instead of talking about being rejected, Andrius.

[Plum]

...

Wraith. You fail. Please go to the back of the class and don't make me break out the dunce cap.

[Plum]

Wraith. Meet dunce cap.

Go to the corner for a time out.

[Plum]

Why a Modkill, pray?

[Plum]

Oh hell.

[Plum]

Dammit Wraith. I've tolerated you long enough. Please hold while I do the requisite:

CD2

Username:

Plum

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes.

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No.

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

No.

List all of the insanities you currently have:

N/A

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No.

Were you murdered?

No.

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

No.

Twitch?

I'll pass, thanks.

Before I get too involved, Plum, I want your opinion of Wraith right now. Scummy or town VI?

As it happens? I'd like to see the flips on Fate and RC for confirmation, but I'd strongly lean scum over VI. If it IS VI, the Fate playstyle has been taken too far, even by its imitators.

Rereading Wraith in ISO, why the hell does he declare Furc Town based on meta and not touch the Warded/didn't Ward/whatever discussion??? Sets up lynches in the event of an RC flip when he joins the wagon, latches onto Fate's sudden Banmage hate with a vengeance - a spammy vengeance which takes out hatred indiscriminately and without reading at such players as hitigoroshi. Going back and forth on 'both Benmage and Fate are probably Town', 'Benmage has to be killed so that he doesn't kill Fate tonight (despite the fact that given clause one this would result in a net loss of one Townie either way) 'Benmage is anti-Town with the personal vendetta &c.', and 'Benmage is so trying to go Murderer, we have to lynch him now like a virus! Spam!'. The last three are terribad; the last in it's horrid logic given what was explained to him about claiming Stalk Day 1; the penultimate is a symptom of the greater problem of lack of/halfhearted/back-burner'd Cult-hunting from him, the first of the three bad for the reasons indicated in the parentheses. OSCILLATING BETWEEN THEM in an attempt to get Benmage lynched or make it look legitimate??? Damn scummy. Thanks for asking. But basically this is colored most by the fact that of the whole RC/Fate/Benmage mess with the shifting wagins Wraith looked the MOST opportunistic and the LEAST interested in scumhunting for real. And why do you ask, VP, and what's your take on Wraith?

No cult kill last night? So it's likely that someone res'd successfully? Or cult wifom with aspirations of collecting successful res town points?

Last isn't applicable; people who get Murdered and Rezzed get flavor; if they wanted to waste a Rez kit and a kill on a Townie for cred not guaranteed (if someone else claims a Rez on the fellow it's down the drain, and there's no control over that).

Trilobite, are you serious. He stalked N0 out of spite for another player. He stalked N1 AGAIN and this time even REFUSES TO CLAIM HIS TARGET. HOW IN ANY WAY IS HIS PLAY PRO-TOWN, AND WHY ARE WE CONSIDERING KEEPING THIS UNSTABLE PLAYER ALIVE?

Because we

can

control him and it's Day 2. He's almost certainly not Cult. The earlier we lynch the first Cultist, the more easily we will be able to catch the scumteam.

Trilobite, are you serious. He stalked N0 out of spite for another player. He stalked N1 AGAIN and this time even REFUSES TO CLAIM HIS TARGET. HOW IN ANY WAY IS HIS PLAY PRO-TOWN, AND WHY ARE WE CONSIDERING KEEPING THIS UNSTABLE PLAYER ALIVE?

That was my first reaction. But after getting past my anger for the play he made, he's still a terrible lynch.

I don't think so, but that's probably self-preservation instincts. I strongly believe I am his target based upon that he desperately wants me dead, an assumption that is based on his OMGUS vote where he ignored incredibly obvious rules to call me a liar.

Why would his desperation to have you dead result in him voting you with OMGUS if he STALKED you last Night? He wouldn't be desperate - if he needed you dead, he could deal with lynching someone else because he could kill you tonight. In conclusion: Wat? No, I don't think so.

1) Do you think dispatching one or both of Fate and RC is a good idea today?
2) If yes, who do you think we should dispatch?
3) If no, do you never want to dispatch them or just not today?

1) Probably.
2) RC is a bit more critical than Fate; given the nature of the offenses for the Modkills he's very likely to be Town and it'd be more useful to have RC just to make sure so we can safely make some assumptions and analysis of the wagon on him without any taint of WIFOM.
3) It would probably be nice to Dispatch Fate sometime, maybe today. Depends how much Graverobbing we're willing to get ourselves into; I'm not yet sure of that myself.

On my reread of MoI yesterday I was finding his dismissal of the VV case to be excessively confrontational. When VV made his case I do agree that MoI is the type of player that you basically have to hunt by feel because he just snows you with words. Arrogantly dismissing that as nothing seems to be intentionally ignoring his own meta, which I'm sure he's well aware of.

This meta of MoI is true per my experience with him. The word-snowing always sounds logical; you have to use other criteria for analysis there.

Yes, Benmage. I didn't "receive" a fetish of myself last night, I had it all along! Somehow this caused me insanity! Wraith is scum! Somehow.

Come on; Ben admitted he made a mistake with Stalking causing Insanity for the Stalkee; obviously if you're Cult and gained an insanity in the course of your Cultish doings you may have covered it up by claiming to have received a Fetish of yourself.

Since I know I'm being targeted by the cult and am probably being targeted by Benmage, I'd appreciate a pair of rezzes when night comes.

If you just received a Fetish of yourself you're not in danger of being Ritual'd. Nice trying to redirect some Town resources for your own skin, though. Furthermore, a page or two later you prove you know getting a Fetish = immune from Cult Kill the next Night.

I may want Plum robbing too depending on some questions I have for her....

That's fine, but I'd like to hear the questions, mkay?

My primary incentive to stalk and kill is to kill a cult. The second added beneficial aspect is that it confirms me town. Understand AV? I want to kill c.u.l.t. with my k.i.l.l.

So why didn't you wait a Night and then Stalk? N0 you had no information to go on. Fate, whatever your thoughts on him after his actions N0, hadn't done anything by which you could judge him when you Stalked him. So - why?

Yeah, barring new leads, I'd be ok with a BenMage lynch. Probably he's an investigator, but by lynching him, we keep another investigator alive. Neutral at worst.

No, not even neutral at best. Lynch is our chance to kill scum (well, Murder too, but we shouldn't be trying that yet as Town). Benmage may have stalked Town or stalked scum (why so sure he stalked a Townie?). If we give it up, we wasted our best opportunity for the Day. If we lynch scum, we have one dead scum/one dead Town (let's suppose) at Ben's hands and one dead Town at scum's hands (we suppose). If we lynch probtown Benmage on purpose, we have one dead Investigator plus one dead Townie at Cult's hands. Chance at a lynched scumbag/one or two Town deaths >>>>>>> Almost certain lynch of a Townie/at least one Town death.

LYNCHING SOMEONE YOU THINK IS TOWN IS STUPID. YOU DON'T LYNCH A ONE-SHOT VIG MERELY BECAUSE YOU THINK HE'S A TERRIBLE SHOT. You may want to convince him to shoot elsewhere but no. Just NO.

Sigh, let's not spend another day talking about lynching a prob-investigator. There are several good scum suspects that can and should be pursued. Shutting down benmage with grave robs for tonight and probably one night in the future is going to do more than enough to make it impossible for him to win if he tries to go murderer.

Now this is thinking I like.

i am even against people claiming successful rezzes
read stars aligned 2
a fake rez claim really botched it for the town

I got DAMN lucky there. Without that obscene luck it would have backfired really hard. As it is I find it somewhat suspect that we have two claimed successful Wicked Rezzers. Question being - to both of them -

why Rez Wicked???

VOTE: Wraith

Dispatch: ReaperCharlie

I'll wait on choosing to Dispatch Fate; either way is probably okay so long as we can safely plan the graverobbing around it.

[Plum]

...

You disregard the fact that you directly asked for a pair of Rezzes to counteract not only Benmage (hypothetically) but also a Cult kill, which you invoked specifically. Whether or not you now claim to know better, I dislike the attempt to commandeer Town resources like that (and anyway if Benmage is killing you, why would Cult go after you? And why you specifically, anyway? The hell you're the most likely guy on Cult's offing list).

Benmage can be controlled tonight with graverobbing; if he doesn't, we will lynch him, and I'm sure you'll be happy. In the meantime you haven't responded to other things I've noted from you which make no sense.

[Plum]

And if it is you?

[Plum]

Plum, et al:

While I'm down with not lynching Ben because he's not cult I'm more than a little baffled at all of you (but ESPECIALLY you since we talked about this earlier) aren't saying its time for the first ACTUAL useful murder to happen. It's early but how are you not on the pain-train?

Which, of course, is of special interest considering while you CAN say Wraith 'wasn't scumhunting' he sure oozes town to me in that special Fate-way in wanting Benmage dead to rights once he said he was taking his ball and doing what he wants with it.

AND SPEAKING OF PAIN TRAIN

It might be time to think about culling some doom via useful and planned murders.

There has to be a way to do it right and I may need some help planning it out.

1. I'm sorry, but playing like Fate does not equal Town to me. If you read my case-thing, it's the fact that he was inconsistent and used scummy arguments to further his case and refused to listen to logic. He just screamed and followed Fate. It seemed like a ploy to catch Fate's coattails because everyone thought Fate was uber-Town partly for the reason you stated. There was too much opportunism and scum motivation for the way he said he wanted Benmage dead than Townieness. By far. In my humble.

2. Sure, we can plan out some Murders. I'd say we start with someone we're decently comfortable with; he/she popcorns to someone he's comfortable with, we get about - four? five? no more, as you-ll see below - players together. If you're chosen you have to play, I think - and there's the tricky part, making sure everyone is okay enough with this that there'll be sufficient pressure to follow through. Then each player in turn posts three players they're interested in Stalking. Then everyone who has Forensic Tools is ordered to use them on the pool of potential Stalkees. This will make it harder for Cult to successfully use Resuscitation against the eventual Murders. When Night comes, Stalkers stalk one player from their list, chosen at random (hopefully this will minimize chances of too many overlapping Stalk/Murder actions while keeping Cult from knowing who will be targeted and whether they can combat it with Ward while also ensuring decent chances that there are as many extra Murders as chosen players and we can start clearing.

G-d help me but suddenly I'm liking Seacore a hell of a lot .

[Plum]

SpyreX: A few days ago you were all 'Come

on

, Plum, why aren't you interested in some state-sanctioned Murders already!?' And I was like 'Okay sure, maybe. How about we do it like this' and I had a plan.

You did not respond.

</3

[Plum]

Nu SpyreX, what do you think of my plan regarding sanctioned Murders? I need you to read it and tell me what you think before we comb it for technical matters, y'know.

[Plum]

Random thought for everyone: let's say you knew you were the target of Benmage's stalk. What would be your reaction?

Surprise, given that he said he found me Townish (or at least logical) previously. Annoyance. And there is a degree to which I would want to discuss with the Town the pros and cons of trying to Rez me given that or discuss the idea with Benmage.

[Plum]

I know this is heresee to all the Plum fans out there but her contributions to the game so far don’t impress me as Obv-Town. Sorry, they don’t. Case in point – her contributions today pretty much consist of talking about some plan with Spyrex about targeted murders that is realistically going no-where and is just busy work masquerading as Town planning. Not even scum-hunting in the least. Don't let the fact that she's dear old Plum blind you.

What are you trying to say here? Are you actively susicious of me, or just don't find me obv-Town? If it's the latter, but you currently don't suspect me, why write this at all? If you

do

suspect me, why did you write this not as a case but as an admonition to anyone who finds me Townish? In either case I don't see a good reason for this to be formulated the way this is.

More on this after MoI responds.

[Plum]

Nice. You pop up suddenly when your name appears in a less than positive manner. And you don’t address the issues I addressed. I’ve been hammered for being only about self-preservation and here’s a perfect example. No comments about issues not aimed directly at you or scum-hunting?

You are definitely not obv-Town.

As for the rest of the questions? Sorry, you blew off my question regarding El Goo not once but twice. I don’t know why you should expect me to do you the courtesy you didn’t extend.

Yeah I pop up a bit more when my name is called out, and I don't feel the need to hide it. In such a large game, it tends to stand out and is often what I am most interested in responding to by the very fact of human narcissism.

On the contrary, my response was not aimed at self-preservation. Please. Whether or not people find me obvtown, a lynch or a Town-directed Murder on me is not on my radar at the moment (you think it is?), whatever you say about me. I certainly did have comments about issues not aimed directly at me/my scumhunting. Just because it's you talking about me doesn't mean I can't use your comments in a different context: namely, evaluating

your

relative scumminess.

I'm happy to report that your response is extremely scummy. "You are definitely not obv-Town" is a mindless, rhetorical repetition of something which I earlier implied to be a scummy statement. No one had been discussing my relative obvtownness of lack thereof to the best of my knowledge; if you're neutral on someone who's not being lauded as obvtown by everyone you don't spend so much time and effort trying to discredit the read. You don't make a case on me being likely scum, you just try to stir the pot and see if you can get any steam to boil up.

I certainly have scumhunted today; your implication that haven't is patently misleading and scummily so. I made a case on Wraith, I discussed a possible Town tactic with SpyreX in context of my ongoing evaluation of his relative scumminess (conclusion: Bit scummier than I'd thought previously, given the asking me to do it and then ignoring what I gave him for a bit; smacked somewhat of making a show of looking busy and trying to find strategies while not actually invested in the process). I've argued against lynches I thought were completely suboptimal (Benmage).

Frankly I don't see any Town motivation for the manner in which you suspected me. Had you made a case and made it clear I was one of your top suspects? We'd have a disagreement. Had you made a list of who's how scummy and put me in between scum and neutral, fine. Make a point of saying out of nowhere that I'm not obvtown when that has not been a factor in the discussion, as far as I can see, at all? You're just trying to muddy the waters. The holier-than-thou hypocritical tone of 'you blew off my questions so why should you expect me to answer yours' is at the very least as bad as what I've done there. I didn't mention the questions (frankly they slipped my mind as I skimmed and I didn't even remember what they were referring to, but from an uninformed perspective it's possible to think I blew them off on purpose and invited accusations over something trivial, which would imply I'm stupid, hut whatever). You noticed the questions but thought they were beneath you.

I'll humor your question, assuming this is it:

Nice thinking. Except for the fact, of course, that on ANY SUCCESSIVE NIGHT that El Goo hears a noise and is not warded a Fetish could be created. So once El Goo hears Noise and is not warded (or multiple wards claims are made) your theory goes Kablooie. So the Cult would have to be, I don’t know, patient enough to wait a few days and then could throw doubt on multiple Ward claims or exploit an unwarded noise. Or perhaps El Goo could be Cult. Glad you didn’t factor that into your BRILLIANT explanation. Any reason why that possibility slipped your mind?

Yeah, because I meant it to be implied: That is, it runs the risk of ElGoos being Warded every Night by a single specific player by Town decision or no one claiming Ward on ElGoos. And I think that when I said "in which case Furc just threw away his team's ability to off El Goosuki" I implied that this theory of scum-Furc was being based on ElGoos not being scum with him, and I don't think that's problematic because if scum were to gambit that recklessly they would be doing half their work for us. So, other factors? Yes. A scum-gambit of any worth with loopholes not easily closed or watched over by Town? Nope. I guess that's why it slipped my mind. Nice sarcasm though. Have you earned your merit badge yet?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

*cue accusations of OMGUS*

[Plum]

I don't not believe ElGoos is somewhat scummy and a decent lynch (that Night Action choice doesn't quite mkae it to the level of 'forgivable'). I'm somewhat more interested in other veins of scumhunting for varied reasons (other factors which could lead to this level of interest in the game, for example, might apply to ElGoos, but more importantly other players have struck me as scummier, even granting lurking as a scumtell given the tri-headed hydra).

[Plum]

It's in ten days. That's not awfully close.

[Plum]

Okay, I apologize for not being around much this week, really (NaNoWriMo is eating up a lot of my time and if it continues to be a major problem I will consider replacing out for the good of the game &c.)

Here’s the facts of the matter. I’m going to be dead today. I don’t really have the energy or will to put on a big, blustery show of why what amounts to a ‘Path of Least Resistance’ wagon on me is a bad Idea.

I’m not Cult. Cult knows this. Cult has every reason to cruise along with the flow of the tide and not make waves as I get wagonned. Is every Cult member going to do so? Nope … but some will. And you are a PRIME candidate for doing just that.

Not make waves? Hm? Does it count if I happily watch people add their votes on to you on top of my own? And are you finally outright accusing me of being scummy?

I've had enough of your stupidity here. I happen to know that you're not stupid, but acting like you are isn't winning you any points. Kinda like what SpyreX said about the acting scummy on purpose thing . . . the fact that your play went down this path, intentionally or not. Is not license for you to sit back, self-vote, call your wagon an easy one and toast yourself. While calling other people stupid. In other words, cheers.

If Plum is town how come she is voting Wraith? Is Wraith scum and Triglav missed the memo? Triglav is horribly lost in a miasma of lostness.

@Plum

^^^ address please

She was voting Wraith because she found him likely scum. She still does, actually. The memo would be somewhere in her ISO where she discusses him towards the beginning of Day 2. Please feel free to reference this post as well.

3) RC wagon rolls up at the end of the day and MoI is an eager beaver to jump on that. We get a fancy pants iso of RC in 1171. I don't know, but I always find these post by post isos to be kind of scummy because people seem to rarely ever give the person a fair shake when doing them. I mean, seriously go back and read MoI's PBPA of RC. Essentially 90 percent of RCs posts are called scummy or fluff. I find this quite over the top by any measure. I mean, maybe I'm wrong and RC will flip scum, but I just find this kind of rhetoric excessive and unlikely to come from town. That of course, is sort of ironic, since Magna seems fond of attacking RC, Vas and others for their rhetorical statements. Now before Magna comes in and says 'ZOMG VAS DID IT TO ME TOOOOO,' yes I realize he did. I think he was being over the top as well, but I also feel like you were winding him up with your antagonism from his original points on you. I still find it scummy regardless, but yours on RC is worse because nothing provoked it other than you trying to trump up your vote.

This whole point is carefully fabricated bullshit. Had you read my ISO you would have seen my questions and criticisms of RC’s play throughout the Day BEFORE the RC wagon formed. Since you didn’t here are the ISOs for you (8,17,18 ). Yet somehow you are attempting to portray my suspicion of RC as fabricated out of mid-air. Both incorrect and scumtastic.

I'd like to reference some scum meta of MoI's, if I may:

As far as I can tell, Magna's opinions have not evolved at all since his entrance to the game. Which could be fine, but then it seems that a lot of his big fancy-looking posts are just taking people he already suspects and rehashes them in an iso which only ever dissects things to find more scummy stuff.

If you can’t tell that my opinions have changed they you need to read more carefully. Or the move ate significant posts. Manho, based on my initial read through, was my second choice as scum. Based on my detailed ISO and his responses he’s moved well down the ladder in my opinion. And sorry if analyzing posts looking for scummy motivations isn’t what you consider scum-hunting. Strike that, I’m not sorry. If you don’t like how I scum hunt that’s your issue not mine.

So yeah, make of that what you will. I've also seen him heavily attack theoretically bad play (which is often not a sign of scumhood at all) when he's scum.

Pin NPAU as scum between him and Feysal, gievn the repeated question dodging (when asked a second time, and asked why he didn't respond to my initial question re: why he chose to Rez Wicked, he said to Furpants_Tom 'What are you trying to elicit from my response? And why not ask Feysal? Is it because ... I'm voting you?' So yeah, dodging justified by implied and illegitimate accusations of OMGUS makes for scummy guy).

Having read through Kunk's responses to Wicked's case and read Wicked's responses back, Kunk is maybe on the scum side of neutral for me; in this game at this stage that's frankly not saying much. I don't see that he's right at the bottom of the bad/lacking scumhunting pack. I am certainly interested in looking at any possible connections with MoI, but that's probably most effective

after

MoI dies. Which he must.

Wraith is scum, with kunkstar, for his IGMEOY but not vote in the last post.

Maybe not quite; I'd put this down as a Wraith-specific scumtell; we don't have enough information to determine what bearing it would have on Kunk's alignment.

Why do you think npau is the more likely cult?

Because Feysal had a properly thought out reason as to why he protected Wicked when initially asked. Npau had just entered the game, and had presumably just read through the whole thread - I'd assume he would be more likely to have a non-trivial, non-emotional reason for taking his night action; but it took 3 questions to get him to explain his reasoning. I realise that's weaksauce, which is why it's not yet enough to attract my vote; but it does put him ahead of Feysal on my scumometer.

Actually, this reminds me of when I was scum replacing in basically Night 1 of SAII. I got bloody Rezzing a Cult buddy of mine and wanted to claim a successful Rez. Having only skimmed most of the thread, I had to come up with some convoluted reason as to why I'd chosen to Rez the person I claimed I had. I'd assume that anyone without a good, sensible reason at hand is scummier than otherwise. Anyway, pin NPAU as scummy again.

SAII was bad only because Plum claimed to resuscitate, not to be the resuscitat-ee. Phate (I think it was Phate anyway) was basically confirmed town after he was saved. Really, it's the claimed rezzers that we have to watch closest.

THIS RIGHT HERE.

Wrath is still town and Plummen you need to look at the company you are keeping.

*checks the MoI wagon as of that post* No, actually, I don't think I do, thanks.

Could everybody not voting ElG please state why you don't believe they are scummy, when even they have admitted that they'd vote for themselves due to their behaviour?

Because as cult there would have been planning over night actions and such a useless action would have been thrown out the window. Basically why does a dumb move

have

to be scum motivated? I don't see it.

If ElG is scum, I'd doubt they actually

did

something that useless; it might be cover for all sorts of things, including cover for acting stupid and making scummy Night Action choices later in the game and excusing it with stupidity.

Dammit, being kicked off, but more later so yeah.

[Plum]

Sorry yar. Imma go with A.

Vote A - 5 votes
Vote B - 0 votes.

[Plum]

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

But Furc. Oh Furc. Furcolow.

[Plum]

CD3

Username:

Plum

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes.

Did you Ward? If so, who?

N/A

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

N/A

List all of the insanities you currently have:

N/A

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No.

Were you murdered?

No.

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result? (Note that these are both poor N1 choices.)

Twitch?

No, thanks.

[Plum]

Defensive reaction by scum-NPAU is defensive. I'd bet Town Feysal and Wicked, scum NPAU. Just sayin'. In fact I'd vote this right here right now except . . .

I missed whoever said what the first time around about SpyreX but assuming that we get in the last (?) claim and it doesn't come out in the wash, yes well bottle of WIFOM back at you mate string up the gallows please.

xvart
ElGoosuki
SpyreX
nopointactingup
Wraith?
BabySpice?

[Plum]

Hold up and I'll get back to you.

[Plum]

Run by me how many Insanities you're supposed to have if you're telling the truth &c.?

[Plum]

You'll get one if and when.

Just the bunch of people up to no good I could think of off the top of my head. All about damn scummy. Question marks are more questionably so/I need to do more research.

Is Cult with 0 Insanities that implausible? Because that post of NPAU's is really just screaming WRONGNESS to me.

[Plum]

So why doesn't a brother get a ?.

What happened to change your opinion on Wraith from scum ex machina to ?.

What is it that's got you in a dither with NP (I know what sure has my cackles raised but).

Re: Brother - Because I feel low odds that your rescuer will come at the last moment, Rapunzel. Never had a Townread on you this game which is close to a scumtell for you, protip.

Re: Wraith - Maybe he didn't deserve a ? but I haven't had time for reevaluation of him since Day 3; at least I've had new and scummy feelings on you and NPAU and xvart and ElG since the new Day dawned. Kinda like BS.

How could you even think about speculating Wicked-scum if you were his rezzer?? Unless you did not really rez Wicked that night.

Feysal had done an accurate evaluation of something not likely but possible to have happened. NPAU responded by voting him, accusing him of only thinking that because he didn't Rez Wicked and was scum. Because Feysal's evaluation was reasonable and clearly so, this feels super-defensive, like maybe it came from someone who himself didn't Rez Wicked and wouldn't dream of rocking the boat by suggesting even the slightest possibility of Wicked not being cleared. Feels horribly off.

[Plum]

Yes I've got new scummy feelings on you regarding the fact that you've got to be Rezzed or be lying and only Nico left to save you. Maybe maybe not, but I like the feeling of having called it and think my odds are good enough (given my reads on you all game) to warrant giving that a shot. It's painless and costs nothing. If xvart/VP Baltar have something to say after Nico claims, whatever he claims, I'm all ears. But yeah. I think probably I'm right. If I'm wrong you get your apology.

But, the biggest one, the BIGGEST one is the fact you're rolling with I'm not town enough over 'I cowered'.

Wait what.

Drop in the bucket compared to your play with the MoI wagon as well. Weird as all get out. In any case, that's all good and well on NPAU. Complementary cases/scumtells on one player are good not bad, so thanks for bringing that to my attention as well.

EBWOP: Okay, I get it.

[Plum]

I didn't say you should have wanted MoI lynched over ElG. That's not true as a point-blank statement. However.

Check sig. I'll try to get on but not sure how much it'll be.

HOWEVER:

1 and 2 aren’t true and furthermore are scum-tells. I’m far from the only person who has been abrasive in this game. And I did in purposely. I’m rather tired of getting killed very early in Large games when I am Town.

Antagonizing those players who are weak enough to rise to the bait was specifically designed to lower my NK threshold.

You may not like it but it certain isn’t indicative at all that I’m Cult.

What in the name of everything holy is this?

"I'm scummy on PURPOSE, yo" is garbage. In THIS setup with no PR's I have no words.

Ohh look ElG leaps after THIS?

Yeeehaw

This post filled me with all sorts of weird and scummy.

[Plum]

I'm sorry wait a minute. Wan't Feysal's theory that Wicked could, possibly, have gotten Murdered? While very very unlikely, doesn't that have everything line up?

Otherwise I'm just seeing someone throwing out accusations at me for no good reason. If Feysal were in any actual danger at this point you might have some sort of tell. But he's not, and you don't.

[Plum]

If you got a confirm from Triglav - a semi-confirm, a voucher of lesser Insanity, whatever - why

are

you getting defensive?

As for your point, wait what? I had been under the impression that Feysal's point was the Cult no-killed and two people ended up Rezzing him. In which case one of the two was prob-Cult. Not necessarily him of the two. Having said that I'll be going to sleep soon so we'll see how my brain settles out on the matter.

[Plum]

VOTE: El Goosuki

Good riddance.

[Plum]

CD4

Username:

Plum

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

No

List all of the insanities you currently have:

N/A

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

No

Are you bloody?

No

Twitch?

N/A

No, if I wanted murderer I'd have kept my mouth shut. But even if you think otherwise that ship would've sailed long ago:

A. I launder tonight.

B. I have 0 of my needed 3 kills.

This. Seriously. Andrius, you're smarted than this.

VOTE: SpyreX

This post filled me with all sorts of weird and scummy.

What?

He went "I was scummy on purpose to make sure I dont get NK'd".

That is retarded in the best of circumstances (see super cop). In this one, its flat out scummy. Which it was.

No, I agree that MoI's statement was extremely scummy. The fact that you knew that and said that but kept your vote on ElG for unvoting because of this is not an intuitive thought process, in my humble opinion. You used it as a bolster for your ElG case because . . . ? You didn't state that ElG was maybe bussing (in which case it would be a stronger tell on MoI anyway). If you'd argued that ElG was still scummier on the previous merits, maybe I'd have bought it. But the fact that you tried to turn something which was clearly flat out scummy into an excuse to keep your voe on ElG makes relatively little sense.

Unless you were bussing ElG. Cheers, mate.

[Plum]

[quote="SpyreX"[I didn't need to 'bolster' anything on ElG and soon when the deaths start really happening and ElG actually FLIPS SCUM I will be vindicated. (additionally, considering you've been going Ohh gee gosh I think SpyreX is scum since D1? this is super awesome).[/quote]

Considering the fact that I've been iffy on you since Day 1 in a very large game with a number of respectably suspicious people around as well? Sure as hell is super awesome.

[Plum]

Fine, TNM.

In which case WHO IS YOUR TOP SUSPECT AND WHY ARE YOU NOT VOTING HMMMM?

[Plum]

So your reservation is that you don't think there is a case on SpyreX, or that you don't approve of Ben's case on SpyreX?

[Plum]

Okay. So, do you have any of your own feelings regarding SpyreX?

Regarding not trusting Ben: What ulterior motivations do you suspect for him to be intentionally making a bad/false case on SpyreX?

[Plum]

UNVOTE: SpyreX
VOTE: Benmage
UNVOTE: Benmage
VOTE: hitogoroshi
UNVOTE: hitogoroshi
VOTE: Benmage
UNVOTE: Benmage
VOTE: hitogoroshi
UNVOTE: hitogoroshi
VOTE: SpyreX

[Plum]

Personally, I'd like Plum to stalk and murder Nico.

I thought you'd never ask. Was pretty disappointed when Stalking was explicitly UNSANCTIONED last Night. I'm up for this; anyone object to the idea in principle?

[Plum]

Teh Plume case:

1.) ReaperCharles in the "Town alliance of AWESOEM" very early in the game but then quickly disappeared here with very little mention.
2.) SpyreX in the keep an eye on list, but little mention of SpyreX before hand.
3.) Despite having SpyreX in the 'keep an eye on' list, she was still planning out murders with SpyreX here which is...odd.
4.) Random Spy vs. Plum moments that seemed to appear out of nowhere and wasn't even valid to any discussion at that time. These, by all means, do

not

look like genuine Townie interactions at all. Hell, they don't even look like scum-Town interactions.
5.) Appearing only when mentioned, opportunistically voting for MoI and El Goo[/quote]

1. I like Town alliances. That one didn't pan out, in part because RC started to garner a lot of suspicion and votes. In response to RC disappearing from my Townlist with 'very little mention' I direct you to this catchup post in which I discuss my new reservations in regards to RC. The TL'DR post was just that, a summary of the reads I came to as a result of my catchup reading. Take for example this paragraph:

You good, incisive, introspective Townie. We could use ten more like you. About VV's RC case I'm of two minds - on the one hand I agree with AV above, on the other I don't think that 'daring' to attack Hito is necessarily a good scum move, even (given that sticking with obvTown Hito is a good way to not rock the boat and to get associated with Hito in everyone's minds - there could be scum motivations thar too, of course, but not enough to go on as to which side of the spectrum it's coming from), on the other, yeah, it's weird and I'm not pleased he did that either. On the third hand, saying that VV was scummy for trying to cool down some of Furc's excessive spamming, no matter how obvTown Furc happen to be,

does

feel wrong.

Curious what Plum thinks about the case on RC.

RC is playing too anti-Town for me and has been leaving a bad taste in my mouth, mostly for avoiding the questions aimed at him. The other arguments do little if anything for me; they're mostly nulltells as I see it. If I had a supercool alliance he'd be booted from it until he answered the questions properly and shaped up a little in the play-pro-Town department, then be kept on strict surveillance and scrutinized closely before being considered for reentry, if at all. In other words, I am unimpressed and he worries me - much the same way SpyreX worries me. But he's not among my top picks for scum.

I think this qualifies as more than a 'little mention' of why I felt RC was worth keeping an eye on and did not deserve a place on my Townreads list.

2. I refer to these quotes from my ISO:

SPYREX we need more goodness from you, less I dunno what. Fine analysis, but the spark of life needs fanning maybe.

I usually can get Townreads on cool friends pretty quickly, so this is a bad sign (also a bad sign on SpyreX for the record).

Not sure about SpyreX being a bro which would be a first, just about. That said so much stuff in so little time in this threas means it's just as likely I'm missing some good stuff from him.

1. I need to reread SpyreX, but the immediate honing in on one single target in such a big Day 1 and the longish, long-thought seeming posts smacked more of scum that Town given SpyreX. That said it could be a function of something else, possibly the size/speed of the game. I'm not certain.

SpyreX, you worry me here.

RC is playing too anti-Town for me and has been leaving a bad taste in my mouth, mostly for avoiding the questions aimed at him. The other arguments do little if anything for me; they're mostly nulltells as I see it. If I had a supercool alliance he'd be booted from it until he answered the questions properly and shaped up a little in the play-pro-Town department, then be kept on strict surveillance and scrutinized closely before being considered for reentry, if at all. In other words, I am unimpressed and he worries me - much the same way SpyreX worries me. But he's not among my top picks for scum.

Oh look, I have similar reservations with both RC and SpyreX and they both end up on my 'Keep an Eye On' list. Well, I'm sure that means nothing about what I meant by 'Keep an Eye On'. It couldn't possibly be related, now could it?

I'll tell you that I talked about SpyreX a fair amount, and most of what I said, from fairly early points from my entry into the game, negative or at the very least wary (some of it wasn't). If you want links to me saying that when SpyreX isn't hitting all my obvtown SpyreX buttons that's a worry and a decent reason to be extra alert for scum-Spy I'm sure I could find them for you. I mentioned it in Pick Your Poison Five, if I recall.

3. Planning out Murders with a suspect (and remember I was looking out for Cult suspects way above Murderer suspects then) makes perfect sense - if I'm wrong about SpyreX, confirming him Stalking and Murdering once is an excellent way to prove myself wrong, net a confirmed Investigator, hopefully kill off scum and if not at least hit someone who's a good vigkill, well, I'm all for that. Extending that on a slightly larger scale? Even better. It's also a way to gauge how interested he is in seriously doing it, which would help me in figuring out his alignment. Given that I was keeping my eyes on him and had strong reservations about him but as yet had no strong evidence or time to garner any seriously in the immediate future, talking about state-sanctioned Murders with SpyreX made perfect sense to me.

4. Quote #1 you'll have to ask SpyreX about; I was merely responding to him. Quote #2 - I did find SpyreX's behavior in acknowledging MoI's statement that he was being scummy on purpose to lower his NK threshhold scummy while using it as a springboard to support his vote on the ElG wagon - the competing wagon - odd and very possibly scummy. I still do find this odd and scummy of SpyreX. It is compounded a little by gut from a fairly mild to a moderate scumtell in the act. Quote #3 is responding to SpyreX again. If we hit tomorrow and, as I hope we have a dead Cult SpyreX we can talk about this more. At this point a lot of the explaining for these random moments would seem to fall on SpyreX's shoulders, not mine.

5. With less time on my hands and with some degree of overload stemming from the game size, I was less engaged that I would have liked and, yes, had a tendency to get interested most when my name was mentioned. I think psychologically that that's well within the bounds of normalcy given those variables. I will argue that my MoI vote was not opportunistic; it was reasoned and based on behavior of MoI's that I found extremely scummy, especially at that time but also earlier in the game:

we had multiple players acting badly around the Furc issue - MoI continuously trying to discredit Furc

I'm happy to report that your response is extremely scummy. "You are definitely not obv-Town" is a mindless, rhetorical repetition of something which I earlier implied to be a scummy statement. No one had been discussing my relative obvtownness of lack thereof to the best of my knowledge; if you're neutral on someone who's not being lauded as obvtown by everyone you don't spend so much time and effort trying to discredit the read. You don't make a case on me being likely scum, you just try to stir the pot and see if you can get any steam to boil up.

I certainly have scumhunted today; your implication that haven't is patently misleading and scummily so. I made a case on Wraith, I discussed a possible Town tactic with SpyreX in context of my ongoing evaluation of his relative scumminess (conclusion: Bit scummier than I'd thought previously, given the asking me to do it and then ignoring what I gave him for a bit; smacked somewhat of making a show of looking busy and trying to find strategies while not actually invested in the process). I've argued against lynches I thought were completely suboptimal (Benmage).

Frankly I don't see any Town motivation for the manner in which you suspected me. Had you made a case and made it clear I was one of your top suspects? We'd have a disagreement. Had you made a list of who's how scummy and put me in between scum and neutral, fine. Make a point of saying out of nowhere that I'm not obvtown when that has not been a factor in the discussion, as far as I can see, at all? You're just trying to muddy the waters. The holier-than-thou hypocritical tone of 'you blew off my questions so why should you expect me to answer yours' is at the very least as bad as what I've done there. I didn't mention the questions (frankly they slipped my mind as I skimmed and I didn't even remember what they were referring to, but from an uninformed perspective it's possible to think I blew them off on purpose and invited accusations over something trivial, which would imply I'm stupid, hut whatever). You noticed the questions but thought they were beneath you.

If you want to argue that the last bit, which was a big chunk of the post in which I voted MoI was supporting an opportunistic vote, well, depending on what you consider opportunistic, I can't effectively argue against it. If I knew why you thought it was opportunistic I'd try, but in lieu of that I'll just point out that I had reasons to find MoI scummy, explained those reasons, and found that the MoI wagon of the moment was a good thing and something I was happy to join.

Regarding El Goosuki and my vote there:

I don't not believe ElGoos is somewhat scummy and a decent lynch (that Night Action choice doesn't quite mkae it to the level of 'forgivable'). I'm somewhat more interested in other veins of scumhunting for varied reasons (other factors which could lead to this level of interest in the game, for example, might apply to ElGoos, but more importantly other players have struck me as scummier, even granting lurking as a scumtell given the tri-headed hydra).

xvart
ElGoosuki
SpyreX
nopointactingup
Wraith?
BabySpice?

In response to Spy asking why I wasn't voting ElG, if I recall. Compounded by ElG's Cower claim, I thought ElG was very well deserving of the lynch I said in that lost was decent. Is it opportunistic to hammer someone you feel this was about?

In conclusion: Your case on me is flawed.

[Plum]

No. I'm going to read first. And by read, I mean do some wagon analysis.

Plum, who wrote that case on you?

VasudeVa. Tagfail thar.

Do as Seacore says ASAP please.

[Plum]

I'm willing to Double Rob if that's what we end up deciding. Would obviously much prefer to Stalk/Murder Nico, but if y'all put me down for Robbing that's what I'll be doing.

[Plum]

Remind me which graves I'll be robbing, please?

[Plum]

Final Rob Grave Plan:
El G: Benmage, Plum
Furclow: Xvart, Plum
Wickedstjr: VPB, AV
SpyreX: Benmage, AV

I agree.

[Plum]

CD5

Plum:

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes.

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No.

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

Yes, two Insanities. I took Twitchy and Soloist.

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy and Soloist.

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No.

Were you murdered?

No.

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

No.

Are you bloody?

No.

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?

No.

Twitch?

*twitch* *twitches*

Vote: Plum

<--- Replace this with your username!

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

[Plum]

@Plum - I like your new avatar.

Thank you! I changed in anticipation of Blackest Night Mafia, even though the character has only the most tenuous of connections . . .

Ah, that's right, forgot about that. Why weren't you a nominated stalker last night, then?

Because the second time you choose the Murder you automatically become a Murderer. So. It would be pointless for Ben to Stalk and counterproductive to boot.

Uh yeah, and Andrius? You Communed someone you knew to have more Insanities than you? Because . . . ?

Right, business is BS today, good job Stalkers.

[Plum]

...

If I could even get a response regarding my response to Vas' case on me I'd appreciate it. Because I'm getting a lot of throwaway comments I can't respond to without context. Granted a lot of Vas' stuff on me is associative stuff where I have no freaking clue why SpyreX said something to me, so I'm sorry, I don't know why Cult!Spy acted weird. Sorry. Frankly speaking I don't know why you find anything specifically associative - how do you think I, when I draw scum, generally interact with my buddies, anyway?

[Plum]

Oh bah, that's not, I think, how I suaully behave with scumbuddies (but would with unknown-alignment-acting-not-really-Town SpyreX).

I <3 you too, Vas, but you are wrong in this game.

[Plum]

- No. It's quite clear that BS needs death ASAP, Nico almost certainly does, and Andrius probably should be offed as well. BS was and is clearly today's play. Having said that, I am cropping up to ask if any defense of myself has been noted, given that that's also among the top five or so things/people being talked about and, yes, because I would prefer to defend myself rather than not doing so. Given whats going on, it's a reasonable point to bring up, I think.

[Plum]

Rrrrrrrr. And if I flip Town, that makes what of VV, xvart?

[Plum]

CD5

Username:

Plum

Did you Hear Noise?

Yes

Did you Ward? If so, who?

No

Did you gain Insanities, and if so, which ones and from what actions?

No

List all of the insanities you currently have:

Twitchy, Soloist

Did you

successfully

resuscitate? If so, who?

No

Were you murdered?

No

Did you Commune or Investigate? If so, who, and what result?

No

Are you bloody?

No

Did you Stalk? If so, on who, and was it successful?

No

Twitch?

*twitches*

Vote: Plum

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote, Vote: Benmage

Unvote, Vote: Xvart

Unvote

[Plum]

Everyone really needs to just start claiming what they did.

Plum who did you rez?

Hito.

[Plum]

/in before I actually get this prod.

In principle I'd prefer a Kunk lynch to a me lynch. In practice, if there is a plan laid out and you've already worked Kunk in, there's probably little benefit in me arguing that it should get changed up.

Andrius should die in a fire (<3) because he is definitely scum, cf. Communing Benmage (whom he knew to have a higher Insanity Count than him at the time) and netting that convenient little extra Insanity. If the plan gets him dead by tomorrow or nets other scumbags I'm down with it, but at least my one clear obvious scumpick must die. I am not impressed by musing about whether that he said recently says anything about his alignment; Andrius isn't stupid; he covered up an Insanity hoping to last as long as he could, and please just don't let it be much longer, mkay?

EDIT: Got the prod while typing this. Bah.

[Plum]

Oh boo on you, did that dropping the Rez kit thing ever ork out, hmm? I have a Rez kit as well, but it looks as if I'm to be hung, not slashed. I'll hold off voting once I see same people who're more likely to be Town confirming what we are going to be doing and if my fate today is sealed. If it is, and the plans that are finalized are contingent on my lynch, and they are generally good plans, I will accept my fate because not doing so would cause unnecessary chaos and such.

You netted an extra Insanity Communing Benmage when . . . yeah. Meanwhile I have my two Insanities exactly.

I don't do starcrossed, love.

[Plum]

Remind me when you decided I was scum, Andy?

(I think we're just dragging ourselves into an argument but it's late at night and I have a snow day tomorrow, so)

[Plum]

Yeah, I usually try not to do this in general, but sometimes I fail.

[Plum]

I meant lurking, not staying up late, but whatever

[Plum]

And Plum, I forgot that Starcrossed implied suicidal. I thought it was just dead.

Well, really what it implies is that fate has screwed over the relevant parties . . .

[Plum]

Do you approve of Plum drunkposting a selfhammer together with the threshold list?

[Plum]

I've never actually been drunk. Notwithstanding the fact that I played Drunk Mafia under the influence of very low-alcohol wine.

[Plum]

Drinking

to

get drunk is . . . no.

Then again, you'd be surprised how much %5 wine you can drink and barely get buzzed when drinking in context of one's religious holidays.

[Plum]

Plum is </3

?

Because I played poorly (which only benefited your scumteam)? Or because my last push was on you, you obvscum?

<3

[Plum]

Plum is </3

?

Because I played poorly (which only benefited your scumteam)? Or because my last push was on you, you obvscum?

<3

No, because we were parted; doomed lovers until the end. Again. </3

*sigh*

MY LOVE FOR NACHO DID NOT LEAD TO NACHO-LYNCH. OR IECERINT. MUST TRY HARDER TO FAKE-BUDDY NEXT TIME.

SpyreX has a lot to teach you, young Padawan >_<