Open 276- Friends and Enemies Mafia (OVER)

[parknourie]

@ Andrius - So many...it hurts. Well, once he was my scum partner and kinda saved the day, and I do respect his cruel methods for victory, but those are my experiences with him in the past right? Also, he's not my partner anymore, I don't need/want him.

[Nobody Special]

Checking in -- very very busy today; real stuff tomorrow. Promise.

[Nachomamma8]

You seem pretty hellbent on this policy lynch - I'm kind of surprised you're this serious about it. My question to you is, what was your purpose of entering a game with me? If you dislike how I play, and were going to come in and post this about me, and chase my lynch regardless of alignment, isn't that a little sadistic?

I was invited to play, and I like playing with a players on the list. I wasn't going to not in just because I saw someone with a anti-town playstyle on the list. There was also a chance I could pull Mafia, which would've meant your playstyle wouldn't have been a problem at all.

~ You make me sound like a VI who is an awfully toxic influence on games. I think you're being unfair, as in my recent games I've been exceedingly accurate. If you would like to read up my other games, they're all catalogued neatly in my wiki - feel free to have a look. Otherwise I can provide some more commentary on my other games if you still think I am awful.

Your accuracy doesn't change the fact you detract from games.

Another mechanic based game (at least initially). We gave the scum the Janitor and I got myself lynched Day 1 to waste the Janitor's shot on a townie. In my closing post analysing the game, I correctly identified 3/4 scum in a 20p game, based on behavioural tells and some wagon analysis.

It's this sort of play that you deserve to be policy-lynched for. Your self-hammer in this game extremely arrogant, first of all. You were in no position to decide that you were smarter than the rest of the town and the janitor was going to break the game if it wasn't taken out early. But no, you decided to give the scum two free kills in order to neutralize one of their scum roles. You refused to fight the well-deserved lynch on yourself so you could get a personal agenda completed that should've been set aside for the game.

But, I have to admit that I am impressed with PYP4 and the Scummies Invitational, so I'll drop talk of a policy lynch for now. I can only hope we can see play similar to what's displayed in those games other like Pick Your Poison, Mini 1007, or Mini 918.

Unvote

[Nachomamma8]

Anyway, this whole Hoopla wagon gained a whole lot of speed really fast, and I'm not sure I like how it looks. I agree with Fate that Hoopla should have defended herself earlier than she did, but I'm not complaining now that there was a decent post on her part. I'm going to have to give this topic another read-over tomorrow, when I'm not so tired, but it looks like there was surprisingly little content for fifty posts (or maybe I'm spoiled by the newbie games I played).

What happened to this? It's two days later, and I don't see posts.

Hoopla doesn't sound like a VI.

So I really don't know what Nacho is talking about. On this moment, I can see only one reason to propose a policy lynch: to make sure we won't that Hoopla seriously.

The bolded implies you didn't do any research yourself. If not, you're just making assumptions and giving a Hoopla a free pass because she has a good grasp over basic grammar and spelling.

Further, my suspicion goes mostly to park. Nacho's call for a policy lynch was odd, but Parks following was worse. He said it was his first one, and one would suspect that park would have read really well if the player was actually a VI before supporting his first policy lynch. Hoopla provided some games where is really isn't a VI, so we can assume that Park wasn't very troubled by supporting a policy lynch for the first time. He didn't check at all if Hoopla was a VI. It seemed very opportunistic to me.

And yet, your vote remains on me. Is there any reason for this?

Vote: Andrius

[Hoopla]

Nacho, just so I can guage some perspective on this, rank my antitownness in comparison to some other supposedly controversial players;

Fate
Adel
Albert B Rampage
Battle Mage
DrippingGoofball
Ellibereth
charter
drmyshottyizsik

[Hoopla]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Andrius

...while I'm here.

[Fate]

Hoopla I like being number one on lists.

You put me on the top just to buddy me didn't you?

I see right through your psychological subtle mindgames.

[Fate]

Though am I glad the Andrius wagon is taking off quite well.

[andrew94]

nacho , may i ask, why were you talking to flinter/abel, then voted andrius?

@park, you said 'im not your partner anymore'. this means your mafia right?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nacho, just so I can guage some perspective on this, rank my antitownness in comparison to some other supposedly controversial players;

Fate
Adel
Albert B Rampage
Battle Mage
DrippingGoofball
Ellibereth
charter
drmyshottyizsik

lolwut

I am a good guy now. And Nacho didn't know me when I was naughty

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: Vote: Andrius

[Fate]

Classic.

[parknourie]

nacho , may i ask, why were you talking to flinter/abel, then voted andrius?

@park, you said 'im not your partner anymore'. this means your mafia right?

No it means I'm free from being a partner with you. Dreadful job, that.

[Nachomamma8]

Fate
DrippingGoofball
Albert B Rampage
Ellibereth
Battle Mage
charter
drmyshottyizsik
Hoopla

I suppose this will take some explanation, then.
Charter and shotty have the only playstyles on this list I would regard as inherrently anti-town, but they don't damage the game itself. They're more of hard-to-read players that do dumb things. They're also less anti-town than you because they do predictably stupid things and thus people are prepared for those things. From you? Not so much, and it hurts games pretty badly.

[Hoopla]

Well, that should be enough for everyone else to see that Nacho doesn't know what he's talking about - but lets not let this become a focal point of the game. Hey, at least he is voting for Andrius.

[Nachomamma8]

What would an acceptable arrangement of the names be in order for me to know what I'm talking about?

[Hoopla]

Nacho, if I didn't know any better, I'd think you were flirting with me from all this forced attention. Lets actually take a deeper look at your argument;

When Hoopla plays, she doesn't play the game of mafia; she posts meaningless numbers and stuff about wagons and COASTS the entire time.

I've provided several examples of games (and can provide even more) where I've either not used said methods or it has been a circumstancial factor in my analysis and scumhunting. The games where I have used wagon analysis, and "number-based" methods I've shown myself to be accurate, completely justifying that method of scumhunting.

The next part of your policy post, you state this;

She is a very large detriment to whatever faction she finds herself on, and since chances dictate her being on the town side, we have to take care of this lynch before she begins her coasting and it's already far too late.

To which ABR asks evidence for. You respond with Mini 1015, where I replaced in as scum;

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... la&start=0

This game emplifies Hoopla's play perfectly. She is the master of walling the town with meaningless fluffposts. She will do this regardless of alignment, and she will not contribute to the game in any way. She will avoid from doing so with condensending tones and sarcasm. Notice how she responds to my policy proposal in the first place. "Kids say the darndest things", "Nacho and his silly fantasies"... :/. So it begins.

I don't drown the town with walls - I work hard on trying to keep the game at equal levels of participation, probing lurkers, and trying to quell spammers. In that particular game, I only had one post that could be classified as a wall, and it was due to replacing into a 36 page game. Besides, it's not like you haven't had games where you've walled (1, 2) or even relied on wagon analysis (here).

You state I will wall with fluff posts regardless of alignment, but you've given one example of one catch-up post from a game as scum. How about you find some wall posts as town - hard mode: wall posts as town where I wasn't successful in catching scum in (seeing as one of the conditions was them being meaningless, if they exist at all).

~~

Your accuracy doesn't change the fact you detract from games.

Nacho, how many games have you played with Hoopla? Do you want this lynch to go through, or are you trying to gauge reactions?

I've only played a few games with Hoopla, but I've seen what she does to games. And yes, I want this lynch to go through.

This sort of stuff makes your opinion look very weak, as it's completely dependent on scare tactics. The only town games you've cited where you could debate I've had an anti-town effect have been the two you've quoted; Pick Your Poison and Mini 918.

The reason for each of these games being questionable isn't due to walling with meaningless numbers and data (your original argument) - it is due to poor gambits. Mini 918 I fakeclaimed as Day-Vigilante and got myself lynched, and in Pick Your Poison, I think my actions were justified, but you obviously disagree. These are the only examples of town play you've cited of mine you have a problem with, which is why I asked for you to rank those players, as players like Fate, DGB and ABR have a far richer history of failed or questionable gambits, yet you don't deem their play antitown. You even gambit youself sometimes - Mini 1044 was a very big risk fakeclaiming Day Vig.

Your argument has shifted from "meaningless data" to failed gambits - so which is it? Because Mini 918 is the only town game of mine that I think you have a case on. If you want to berate me for poor play there, then so be it, but I'd be careful because you don't exactly have the most stellar record yourself.

As for the original question;

What would an acceptable arrangement of the names be in order for me to know what I'm talking about?

Putting myself below drmyshottyizsik completely invalidates your opinion. He is a chronic lurker, spammer, flaker, fakeclaimer, claimer of roles in situations that are bad to so, poor sport, an out and out VI and has self hammered as town in LYLO - though, you've done that last one too, so maybe that's why you sympathise with him? Who knows.

[Hoopla]

Also, why did you exclude Adel from that list?

[Nachomamma8]

I've never played with Adel before, and I only ranked players based on my experiences with them.

I'm also going to bed soon, so I'll respond to #91 when I have more time.

[Andrius]

@ parknourie: "cruel methods for victory"? You mean he's not just another VI? He was scum in a game of mine and didn't fare so well. (IIRC he self-hammered D1, but I'm not sure)

HELLO NOBODY SPECIAL. NICE TO SEE YOU.

nacho , may i ask, why were you talking to flinter/abel, then voted andrius?

Where exactly are you going with this?

@park, you said 'im not your partner anymore'. this means your mafia right?

If this was a softclaim I will castrate you. /not really

ABR is doublevoter? Don't get Nacho and ABR voting me but Fate usually has a plan so yeah.

Nacho, if I didn't know any better, I'd think you were flirting with me from all this forced attention.

Yo Dafish. What do you think of Fate? You ever played with him before?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

This Nacho/Hoopla argument is really, really dumb.

[andrew94]

yea because you fared really well in my game when you were scum. YEA.

[Dafish]

Yo Dafish. What do you think of Fate? You ever played with him before?

Never played with him before. Normally, the intense emotion that is signified by capslawking alot makes me read town, but not on Fate, he seems to do it too often. Initially, I was put off by his incessant latching-on to Nacho, but his willingness to be abrasive and unfriendly with DDD made me rethink that. I also like how he always seems to be going somewhere with his actions... where he is going I'm not sure yet, but for now I'm hopeful. I'll be watching though.

This Nacho/Hoopla argument is really, really dumb.

Dumb in the sense that the argument is useless or dumb in that you can't get any reads from it? Does this mean you want them to stop arguing? Or is there a clear answer to the argument that you wish to share?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

This Nacho/Hoopla argument is really, really dumb.

Dumb in the sense that the argument is useless or dumb in that you can't get any reads from it? Does this mean you want them to stop arguing? Or is there a clear answer to the argument that you wish to share?

Yes.

[Elmo]

Also, I've noticed that the people who point out the scumminess of the last half of my name fail to acknowledge the inherent towniness in the first half. Scum purposely avoiding information to throw us off track?

Well, if you're half trustworthy and half treacherous, that's still fairly scummy - maybe worse than if you constantly acted evil, since people would know what to expect? You didn't answer the question, though.

I agree with Fate that Hoopla should have defended herself earlier than she did

I'm going to echo flinter's sentiments, here - where do you think Fate said this? Why do you agree with this?

I'm trying and failing to see a basis for this Hoopla thing. I'm not sure why a scum game is being linked as the example for her town play; she seemed fine to me in PYP4.