Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[RedCoyote]

1) how did you start playing mafia?
2) Are you better as scum, or town? Why?
3) What are your thoughts on the current setup?

1) It's been 3 years since I saw a boing.boing post that got me curious. I looked for more information about it and stumbled onto a relatively new real-time mafia game called EpicMafia. Although I enjoyed it there, the community really moved in a direction that I wasn't comfortable with. Anyways, long story short, I play at MS now.
2) My record says scum. It's probably because it's generally easier to win as scum, all things considered.
3) It looks like fun. I've only saw my own role, but I'm looking forward to the game. I like the theme.

Vote: Crimp My Lucy

Vote: XScorpion

Can't chance being fooled by this guy again.

[RedCoyote]

I never thought I'd say this, but thank you, Fur!

Players have a nationality - I'm guessing people are either Soviet or American

Unvote

;

vote: DavidParker

[RedCoyote]

Excuse me?

Why are you "guessing" people are "either Soviet or American"? Are you not one of these sides? I figure that's pretty much implied except possibly for some third party role, as you pointed out. I don't think multiple countries/alliances are readily apparent nor something we should begin speculating on. Still, with your post, I don't like the way you phrased it, and it makes for a good, early vote.

RC mis-reading this was one thing, but at least he didn't suggest the game was US v Russia.

I'm not misreading anything. Why are you putting words into my mouth and blowing up over one vote? You seemed more collected the last time I played with you.

---

Rarely read the rules, i just concern myself with being polite. Im generally disinterested in set ups.

This is anti-town, but not necessarily scummy. I disagree with anyone who says otherwise.

---

Anyway, if PoisonIvy had received a town PM, she'd know that the win condition is not "You win when the Soviets are dead."

Actually, this is a pretty good point. Hm.

Why would you even feel the need to mention this?

This is another good point. Ivy seems to be digging herself into a bit of a hole.

---

Legitimate suspicions aren't enough for him to vote DP or Ivy, but a completely random vote is okay? This does not compute.

I like this point as well.

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3 - The one I really hate. This game looks like scum probably has a decent ammount of information since it appears both US and Soviet can be town aligned. If that is true there are quite a few ways for scum faction(s) to exist, if someone answers this with high accuracy, it can be a big point to scum in thinking they are a power role, since they are a second tier setup role. To explain the tier things, you have Scum-Town Power-VT in how much they know about the setup. Usually scum roles heavily suggest what town roles are around, town roles can usually make a decent guess at the setup, VT is in the dark. There are SO many ways this question can benifit scum, and so few it can benifit town.

Okay, I see where you're coming from. That's valid. Do you think Fur cooked this question up for this purpose or are you reading too much into it?

[RedCoyote]

I don't see how RQS is detrimental if people answer casually, and don't give away their roles. Is it my fault for asking questions, and for trying to steer away from the senseless RVS? It has already forced a few bandwagons as opposed to random voting/FoS, although that is still somewhat going on.

This is how I felt about the question, but Llama had a completely different perspective on it which I can just as easily see.

vote: pi

I feel like you almost slip this in rather than voting Llama, which you spent a bigger chunk of your post talking about.

---

My PM doesn't explicitly state whether or not there are town aligned players of different nationalities, either. Moreover, I don't see why other role PMs should be any different since the rules regarding nationality and alignment are in the first post, or so, and they are clearly different concepts - something David doesn't seem to quite grasp, by his use of 'probably'. My feeling then, is that David is bullshitting in grand style.

You put this much better than I could, imo. I agree 100%.

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I am getting annoyed that you are basically OMGUSing what I said because I attacked you with conviction. Other people are apparently not scummy because they sounded very unsure of themselves, while when I say "fur is scum" you say im scum for it. That is what is not making sense, and where the comment came from.

I really like this point, and it seems accurate when I think about it.

I'm finding myself enjoying reading this game more than posting in it at the moment, heh.

---

I disagree quite strongly. I have dp marked as town.

I don't like how you just throw this in there without elaborating on it. Why is he town to you?

Come on, seriously.

I don't like this either. If this is scoffing, it's certainly a confusing way to do it. What's wrong with margaret's comment? Bad post, Admiral.

---

I'm having second thoughts about the PI wagon -- it's taken off a little too quickly for my tastes. I still think PI seems scummy, but in the past my scum reads have been pretty terrible, so I'm going to play this one by the numbers.

Furcolow is steadily becoming more and more scummy to me: the "meta" appraisal of PI, the whole RQS deal... and this.

This is how I feel about the situation. I'm not ready to write off Ivy, but I really have no issue with either Llama or margaret's attacks on Fur. I feel like Fur can't get his footing in the argument and is coming across as sloppy.

[RedCoyote]

Well, I find him scummy but he's buddying me pretty hard so I'm okay not voting him for now.

David, this is horribly scummy. Do you really mean this?

You find him scummy but you don't want to vote him because he's buddying to you?

[RedCoyote]

Oh, okay. I was worried for a second, but now I get it.

Unvote

;

vote: ThAdmiral

I know what I like and what I don't like. I do not like this guy's posts at all. They're incredibly vague and reeking of inside information.

[RedCoyote]

Need to get back into this. I'm so thankful that, despite the amount of players, the game isn't moving too fast.

[RedCoyote]

Okay, I just died in one of my games. Tomorrow I'll be ready to go. I need to catch up on a little reading for school right now.

[RedCoyote]

Okay, everyone. I'm going back to page 7, so this may wind up to be somewhat of a wall.

Spoiler: You've got to click it, so just do it and get it over with. :right:

Reading him in iso, I find it pretty likely that he is scum. I don't like all the little suggestions that he is town.

Little suggestions by whom? bvoigt or others?

---

By claiming i "want" to be investigated. When what i said was that i had no qualms about being investigated if someone with the ability felt uneasy about my presence. It is not a INVESTIGATAE ME NOW. But the individuals choice.

I didn't like it when you first said it, and I don't like your clarification either. This looks like backtracking to me. I just do not understand the mentality behind "Investigate me, then you'll see I'm innocent!" It almost screams Godfather to me.

---

I don't particularly object to a ThAdmiral wagon right now, but I'd like to see what exactly people are finding so scummy about him before I buy in. What vague posts or hints at inside information has he made?

He calls David "marked as town" without having mentioned him at any time prior in response to someone suggesting otherwise. When I asked him about it, he said it was because of his "goodposting" without any references as to why, what, or how. At a couple of points he implies that he's feeling strongly about Fur as town-aligned, but later drops that in favor of Fur slipping on daytalk for the scum. He just makes these very short little blurbs about whatever is going through his mind, but it's really rubbing me the wrong way. It's like he's trying to give out as little as possible so he can back away from any position at anytime. His position on Fur 7 pages into the game went from town, to scum, back to town. This isn't necessarily scummy, but it might be when you're just tacking onto others.

---

I would just like to point out Furcolow is abstaining from my wagon.
Ive seen him play as town and he is one who bounds ahead regardless of anyones welfare but his own. Ive not seen this side to him and we have only played together as towns.

Point well taken.

---

Yay, more softclaiming! Because that's what we asked for! And ATE to top it off like a cherry on a sundae!

I actually agree with this, Ghost. I wouldn't put it by Fur to think that this is acceptable, though, so I have a hard time punishing him for it.

---

I like BotS' post 193. So far so good with him.

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Not liking him defending Rat (very heavily, too). And I also don't like that we're almost 10 pages in and he doesn't even have a vote down. Aside from defending Rat, his ISO consists of IoA and questions that go nowhere. Do not like.

Thanks for replacing in, Pie. I like this opening post. This is a wagon you can really sink your teeth into. I didn't realize that Ghost hadn't voted yet.

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The vast majority of those people, town or scum, are using the same reasons to be on it. Since both are VI's, there are numerous ways to get onto the wagons without looking scummy. I've been spending the majority of this game trying to find who the scum are on both wagons. No doubt, most of, if not all, of the scum are on one wagon or the other by now.

I don't like this post. I don't like the concept of trying to figure out who scum are without using your vote. That's the number one tool at our disposal right now. I mean, why not vote? No one is asking you to throw it around willy nilly, just use it effectively.

---

ThAdmiral's post 209 is okay. I'm feeling a little better about him in general.

This game is really flowing well and I'm glad I'm in it. I really like a lot of the posts people are making.

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David's post 234 is essentially how I feel about Llama's plea. I get where he's coming from on jmj, it's just a shame that jmj has kind of lurked his way out of suspicion. I'm not prepared to vote rat on just that quote though. It may be a part of something bigger, but I'll hold off on that for now. The only thing that really strikes me as odd is that this causes David to vote rat. It seems a little weak for just this one sentence to really trigger his vote, and I'd like him to elaborate more on this.

---

I'm sorry guys, I'm going to have to replace out. Bed rest until some indefinite point in February (argh!). I wouldn't have signed up if I'd known. I'll look forward to calling you all liars, cheats and backstabbers at some other point in the future.

Sorry to see you go, jvw. I was looking forward to playing with you.

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Scott's post 243 is a good addition to what Llama has begun to scratch at. I see some really valid points here.

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There are a) too many people slipping off the radar and b) there were far too many people on my wagon for them all to be innocent. It gained rapid velocity because of my own speculation on the set up.

You can't do wagon analysis on a player that hasn't flipped yet, Ivy. I mean, I'm open to any argument involving lame sheeping onto your wagon, but I'm not going to sit here and say that it's a scum-driven wagon with any certainty.

---

It gained rapid velocity because in all honesty you are probably still scum PI.

Then why are you voting rat? I don't like this comment at all.

---

GW in iso:

0- pre-game questions
1- meta discussion of setup
2- re: pre-game questions
3- re: pre-game questions
4- meta discussion of setup
5- meta discussion of setup
6- asks why he is being voted
7- re: pre-game questions
8- re: pre-game questions
9- commenting on a wagon
10- commenting on a wagon
11- commenting on a wagon
12- explains why he isnt' voting
13- commenting on a wagon
14- commenting on a wagon/self-defense
15- asks why he is being voted

This about settles it. There are plenty of good votes today, I think, but Ghost may be the flip I most want to see.

---

HELLO TOWN RC!

Hello, Nacho! I like your post, even though I don't agree with all of it. What makes you think margaret is scum? ThAdmiral mentioned this as well. I just do not see it. She's one of my top town picks at the moment. Then again, I've had a surprising amount of praise for everyone this game. A lot of cases are making sense to me right now and a lot of good points.

---

I looked up a little bit extra before getting distracted (Wikipedia; start in one place, end up in anime no matter what), so I've got some ideas of what to expect. Granted, you said it was fine, I was responding more to those who had a problem with what I said.

That's all well and good, but why are you still not voting after all this? Are you just being stubborn about it? I can't imagine a pro-town reason behind this position you've clearly taken against using your vote as a scumhunting tool.

---

Something about this seems a little off to me. Does Llama know something about the setup that I don't? Is he defending GW indirectly?

No, I think he's being pretty direct about it. I suppose he just puts more stock in setup speculation than those voting Ghost do.

Or, you know, he's scum, but I'm not feeling that at the moment.

---

I'm not lying. I realize you haven't posted anywhere since that comment. But you have quite a bit of volume around the time of that comment elsewhere, but not in this game. I also find it pretty interesting how quickly you responded to this. Monitoring the thread much?

Unvote
Vote: LynchMePls

Are you prepared to go all-in and say that LynchMePls is lying about his inactivity for reasons of illness/disinterest? This seems like very poor rationale to vote on without really opening both barrels on LynchMePls. There's no way you'd be able to convince me he is active lurking in any sinster way when his vote is already firmly planted on the highest wagon. I mean, using active lurking on the first day of a 24-person game? Really? I just can't stress enough how lame the vote comes across as.

---

vote: jmj3000

for promising but not delivering.

Quit throwing your vote around over stupid things. You've got this once-in-a-lifetime position of being seen by me as probably town, don't screw it up.

There are far too many players for a Scumscale, but the best wagons at the moment are now Ghost, rat, and Ivy. The acceptable runners-up are David and jmj. You can make points about others, but I see the most promise in lynching one of these folks at the moment. A notable missing person from this group is ThAdmiral, who I now think I was a bit quick to judge. I'm not completely sold on him, but I've liked some of his more recent posts better than I liked his earlier stuff.

Ghost absolutely has to be feigning ignorance as to why he's being suspected. There's just no way someone can be both that in tune to the votes he's getting while refusing to take any real action in opining on the guilt/innocence of others. What strikes me as particularly odd is how he's actually raised a decent point about Fur earlier, but he completely failed to follow up on it. There's no content where there should be content. His setup speculation is just that. Speculation. Bordering on pointless. We all know there is no urgency to stop others from misreading the game in someway. Maybe there was for a brief moment during the first few pages, but that has long sense passed. If the Ivy wagon is so bad, then you pressure it, you don't just occasionally whine about it and hope it goes away. That's what scum would do, I suspect. There is just no reason for Ghost to be as mum as he's currently being.

rat has been largely tripping over his own tail, as it were. He's making a lot of peculiar comments about his past experience and seems completely fixated on the Fur/Ivy situation. Granted, this has been an important piece of the game, but there are many other branches that have sprung both directly from this and on their own. To top it off, he complains that no one is paying attention to the other people in this game. Yeah, and it starts with the man in the mirror, rat. Why don't you practice what you preach? The one thing I'll give rat, though, is how he has the real ability to climb out of this little hole he's kind of gotten himself into. He hasn't made a lot of posts, and he should try to rectify this as best he can.

Rounding out the list is everyone's favorite... Ivy. She's said so many questionable things about investigations, her role PM, her positions on other players... It's hard to tell how genuine any of this is. Just like stereotypes don't become stereotypes unless there is some truth to them, Ivy doesn't become the highest vote getter by chance. There are probably scum on her wagon, sure, but that doesn't mean that a solid majority of town-aligned players looked over the game so far and decided that Ivy would probably be the best place for their vote. That still means something, right or wrong. I don't think the arguments for Ivy as town outweigh the slip-ups she's made in this game thus far. By contrast, a player like Fur, I think, is more likely to be town here.

Ghost is easily my favorite of the three suspects though.

Unvote

;

vote: GhostWriter

[RedCoyote]

Since both Americans and Russians are good/bad, why would scum need fake claims? How in ANY way could a name claim help town?

Some historical figures were more known for favoring (I don't mean favoring as in liking, but favoring as opposed to other options) war & conflict over peace. If a player were to claim, say, President Johnson, General MacArthur, Joseph Stalin, Dean Acheson, or Kim Il-sung, I'd be more inclined to see them as scum over, say, President Reagan or Mikhail Gorbachev.

---

I feel like a Lowell flip will give us a little insight about GW, plus I think Lowell is more likely overall to be scum.

I appreciate the fact that you liked my post, but this disappoints me somewhat. I feel like your Lowell vote is already kind of lame to begin with (I can think of at least 5 better candidates as I did in my previous post). This sentence in particular makes me feel weird about you. I don't like that you're justifing, even partially, your vote on the basis of how much information it gives you about Ghost. That comment just feels kind of forced in there, like you don't really mean it.

---

Vote: InflatablePie

because he vote-hops like crazy.

Firstly, if anyone is really guilty of this, I think it's Fur. Secondly, I've like both rat and Ghost for scum right now. Thirdly, even if I concede that Pie's vote hopping is suspect (which I do not), do you really think Pie is the best place for your vote right now?

It could be a playstyle thing, but I find it suspicious how every teeny thing causes him to change his vote. It feels like IP puts no thought into his votes whatsoever.

That's a reasonable point of view, I just don't see it that way I guess. I'd rather see someone use their vote too much than too little.

---

Reading him in iso makes me think he's trying to hard to be seen as a verified townie. And I don't like how he's completely ignored my vote.

Okay, I got you. I kind of see that. Seems a little too passive for a vote at this point in the game. Anything that he's said, like, position-wise that you found to be scummy?

[RedCoyote]

We've got too many candidates and not enough votes. Now that I'm actually keeping abreast of the game, I'm finding it painstakingly slow.

Mod

, can we get a vote count, please? I'd really like to see the top candidates at the moment. I suspect it's still Ivy, and possibly Ghost or Fur. Additionally, we could probably use a round of prods. I'll round up the activity. Give me a minute.

[RedCoyote]

1

Beasts of the Sea (Last Post: 3 days ago) (Last Vote: 9 days ago)

2 InflatablePie (Last Post: Yesterday) (Last Vote: 2 days ago)
3 RedCoyote (Last Post: Now) (Last Vote: Yesterday)
4 EGL (Last Post: 14 hours ago) (Last Vote: 6 days ago)
5 pappums rat (Last Post: 3 hours ago) (Last Vote: 6 days ago)
6 DavidParker (Last Post: 12 hours ago) (Last Vote: 5 days ago)
7 LynchMePls (Last Post: 12 hours ago)

(Last Vote: 10 days ago)

8 ThAdmiral (Last Post: Yesterday) (Last Vote: 6 days ago)
9 Artem (Last Post: Yesterday) (Last Vote: Yesterday)
10 Furcolow (Last Post: 23 hours ago) (Last Vote: 23 hours ago)
11 Lowell (Last Post: 22 hours ago) (Last Vote: 5 days ago)

12 XScorpion (Last Post: 3 days ago) (Last Vote: 10 days ago)

13 smargaret (Last Post: 2 days ago) (Last Vote: 3 days ago)
14 Scott Brosius (Last Post: 13 hours ago) (Last Vote: 13 hours ago)

15 Fuzzyman has not posted or voted yet

16 PoisonIvy (Last Post: 4 days ago) (Last Vote: 10 days ago)

17 gonnano (Last Post: Yesterday) (Last Vote: 3 days ago)
18 bvoigt (Last Post: Yesterday)

(Last Vote: 10 days ago)

19 Stephoscope (Last Post: Yesterday) (Last Vote: 7 days ago)
20 LlamaFluff (Last Post: 4 hours ago) (Last Vote: 4 days ago)
21 Nachomamma8 (Last Post: 2 days ago) (Last Vote: 8 days ago)
22 jmj3000 (Last Post: 2 days ago)

(Last Vote: 10 days ago)

23 Ghostwriter (Last Post: 2 days ago)

has no recorded vote

24 Sathrois (Last Post: 6 days ago) (Last Vote: 9 days ago)

Mod

, could we get a prod on Fuzzy, Sathrois, and Ivy, please?

Things that are bolded are people I want to hear from. I'd like a new post from Sathrois, Ivy, Fuzzy, and BotS. I'd like Sathrois, Ghost, jmj, bvoigt, Fuzzy, XScorp, LynchMePls, and BotS to justify their votes (or lack thereof) at this point. Most of these people voted once during the beginning of the game and haven't moved it. Ivy's vote in particular is kind of a sketchy one because it appears she began the game by voting Lowell on an RVS basis, but has apparently decided to park it there in spite of being arguably the number one topic of the game's discussion so far.

[RedCoyote]

Look, don't misunderstand. I'm not saying Ivy is a bad lynch. I think you'd be foolish to write Ivy off as an acceptable lynch right now based on her performance. She's made far too many potential slip-ups. I'm just saying I generally don't like it when people vote one person and never move it.

In this case, however, it's somewhat justified. I still don't think you should just coast on the vote though, because, honestly, the only suspect I know from LynchMePls and XScorp, for instance, is Ivy. At the very least I can say that Ivy has been talking about a great variety of people. When you don't move your vote, you tend to get pigeonholed like that, at least in my eyes.

Then again, Ivy hasn't moved her vote either it seems.

...eh, you know, I don't know why I'm bothering. She's not even here defending herself. This really isn't a bad D1 lynch.

Unvote

;

vote: PoisonIvy

(8 of 13)

[RedCoyote]

Thank you, Sotty! <3

Also, SNOW DAY!!! My heart goes out to you have have to be outside in extra cold weather, but down here in Texas when we get one inch of snow everything closes.

So now the university is closed for the day and I have nothing to do all day except stay warm. I think I'll break into that Rocky Blu-ray collection I got for Christmas...

[RedCoyote]

Remember that we only have the one lynch, gentlemen.

[RedCoyote]

Why is Fuzzy roleclaiming at this point? "I am not Soviet or American, but I assure you I am town-sided!"

Well, I should hope so. Because, you know, otherwise we were all just going to assume you'd claim scum.

I hope you have good reason for shoving that bit of information out there out of nowhere for the entire game to see it, Fuzzy. I'd like to hear it now.

I think this recent switch to ThAdmiral is beyond silly. I mean, I just pressured LynchMePls over having his vote on Ivy for an extended period of time, he defends it by lecturing me on how sure he is that Ivy is scum, I agree (and even switch my vote to Ivy because LynchMePls made me realize I had no good reason not to vote her at this point), and then he starts vote hopping? What the hell? Explain yourself, my friend. What has Ivy done recently that has made her seem less likely to be scum now, not two days after you got through telling me you were sure she was scum?

[RedCoyote]

Feysal, you're replacing rat, right?

[RedCoyote]

Nevermind, I just scrolled up and confirmed that.

[RedCoyote]

Sotty, Stephoscope could probably use a prod soon as well, please.

[RedCoyote]

The game is being pulled in far too many directions. 11 different people currently have votes on them. This is unacceptable. We're going to need to consolidate. We can start with eliminating silly, unattainable prospects like Lowell, Pie, bvoigt, and XScorp. None of these players will be lynched today if I have anything to say about it.

[RedCoyote]

Hypothetical Scenario: LynchMePls, Amrun, and ThAdmiral are the last three alive on D6. Amrun is voting ThAdmiral, and ThAdmiral is voting him back. With everything that you've gathered up until this point, what's your move, LMP?

[RedCoyote]

Look, LMP, I've asked you twice to tell me why you dropped Amrun from your radar completely after you had previously fought pretty hard for his lynching. I even came up with a funky little story to make it seem fun. You're dodging this, and it's really starting to get on my nerves.

[RedCoyote]

Unofficial but up-to-date VC of the three biggest wagons

Amrun - 5 - XScorpion, Beasts of the Sea, RedCoyote, Furcolow, bvoigt
ThAdmiral - 6 - Nachomamma8, EGL, LynchMePls, LlamaFluff, smargaret, GhostWriter, Anrum
jmj3000 - 5 - DavidParker, Scott Brosius, Lowell, Artem, Pie, gonnano

Llama is right. I've been shirking on my duties as resident nagger here. I still feel like ThAdmiral wagon has formed out of nowhere. Yeah, he has a crappy posting style. I was suckered into voting him for it earlier too, but I don't really see scum here. Anyways, it's looking more and more likely that one of these people are going to taste the noose. If you're not on one of these wagons, you're not doing something right. These three are very diverse candidates, and if, for some reason, you think they're all town, then you better have a damn good reason.

Steph's replacement, ThAdmiral, Feysal, jmj's replacement, Fuzzy, and Sathoris need to stop being useless. Fuzzy and Sathoris especially have been huge disappointments so far. Get a real vote down. Feysal, you came into this game too late to be a leader today. You might get your chance tomorrow, but Fur is not getting lynched. I'd be willing to gamble on jmj, even though I'd prefer Amrun. ThAdmiral is not a great choice, honestly. There are far better. Still, we need a claim, and to many of us, the claim will probably be something we need to digest. It's pretty much unanimously agreed upon that this setup is not just US vs USSR. There are personalities and war and peace implications.

Everyone else needs to get their compromise gloves on, because two of the wagons are going to have to concede. We cannot expect there to be much more than 3 additional votes, so we need to talk about this

now

. Realistically we're probably going to have 19 votes to work with, so 13 of those 19 need to come together on one of these three names.

[RedCoyote]

I am ABSOLUTELY not dodging it. I answered your little sceneario. What is the problem? Also, how has Amrun "dropped from my my radar"?

That answer was so absurd that I had hoped you wouldn't bring it back up. Dropped from your radar as in I asked you why you were voting Ivy and you got all huffy about it. You claimed that Ivy was the worst and convinced me of that fact. Then I go to bed at night, content with the fact that me and LMP were going to force this town to lynch Ivy, hand-in-hand. My dream turned into a nightmare when, the next day, you completely threw Ivy off your list and went after ThAdmiral.

I think, when Amrun flips scum (even if it's not today), you're going to have some explaining to do. I just want you to know I'm not going to forget what you did today.

[RedCoyote]

That he's probably okay.

[RedCoyote]

Sure, joke around. It's not going to be so funny when that's what actually ends up happening, Fur.

[RedCoyote]

Poison Ivy is scum. Why exactly do I have to justify my vote anyways? Because I made it a long time ago? You yourself said the game is slow. Nothing has changed my opinion on who should be lynched.

jmj wagon is a go people. Lots of people are all basically nodding in agreement, without actually voting.

Vote: jmj

Just finished re-read/skim. ThAd is also scum. I'd be perfectly happy to lynch him as well. I'll post a case if people need it, but it's pretty obvious.

Our lynch today should be one of jmj or ThAd. Any other wagons that form (or get sudden boosts from nowhere) in the interim without REALLY good justification are going to look to me like counter wagons.

I'm willing to give jmj a reprieve if he actually re-engages with this game. For now, I feel much better about:

Unvote
Vote: ThAdmiral

This is the weird progression of LMP's posts I've kind of been fixated on the past few days. Ivy is definitely scum, to Ivy is leaning scum, to the Ivy wagon should be dismantled in favor of jmj or ThAdmiral. jmj wagon is a go, to jmj is his top scum pick (post 386), to jmj is just a lurker.

I just do not feel comfortable with LMP's moves at all.

---

Unvote

;

vote: mothrax

One player is defending themselves and the other player isn't. If anything, I'd rather take a player who talks to D2 than a player who doesn't just out of pure utility.

[RedCoyote]

No, I do not. I see no reason why Ivy completely dropped off your radar after that show of confidence.

But, whatever. You won. I wasn't here to fight you over it, and everyone here thinks you're onto something with ThAdmiral.

[RedCoyote]

- Why the hell is PI/PI's Replacement still alive? Scumsliped on like page three... "I wouldn't mind being investigated" just reeks of a godfather or investi-immune scum bragging.

You're preaching to the choir. LMP doesn't want to admit to it, but he completely derailed what was a solid wagon on Ivy. Now all these people are voting ThAdmiral, and I don't know what they're not getting from him. I'm reading his responding posts, and I just don't sense anything particularly suspicious here. Maybe you don't go for the argument that she slipped up during the opening pages. You know, that's fine, that's a really setup-heavy argument. It's debatable. You can't really ignore the fact that Ivy was bragging about how she'd be "willing to be investigated" in an attempt to make herself sound townie. It just sounds off.

Unvote

;

vote: Amrun

Don't confuse Artem for Amrun, guys.

[RedCoyote]

Well, Fur, if you can lead the town off of ThAdmiral then I'd be most appreciated. As it stands, I mostly agree with margaret. But if it ends up working out in our favor, then I won't argue with results.

[RedCoyote]

It's debatable, guys. First of all, we're really still playing outguess the Mod when we say that "war is necessary" roles are scum and "peace at all costs" roles are town. Someone made a good point about JFK. Sen. McCarthy is not particularly known for his foreign policy positions. As I recall, he was extremely critical of the Truman administration, and President Eisenhower didn't much care for him either. I'd have to check my facts, but I don't even really remember him being a vocal proponent of the Korean War.

Eh, sorry to miss out on all the fireworks anyways.

Unvote

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vote: mothrax

[RedCoyote]

Artem is on target about McCarthy. Really guys, get off Amrun, please. Especially with Llama's potential power, I really don't want to risk wasting our lynch here.

[RedCoyote]

Wait, Llama, you have a Vig kill as well? Are you a JOAT of some sort?

[RedCoyote]

Yeah, even without the Governor, I do not really like this lynch anymore. McCarthy, as has been said over and over, was not big on foreign policy.

[RedCoyote]

FoS: RC

for such an obvious rolefish on the last page, to the point where I'm not even sure if I should FoS because that's just plain stupid to do as scum, but there you go.

When a player mentions that he has a power, all bets are off. If Llama had implied that he had another power, then that would be rolefishing to press him, but not when he outright admits he has a Vig shot.

[RedCoyote]

LMP, I originally had good vibes about EGL. I'm so-so on him right now. He seems panicky and like he's going in multiple directions.

Really I just want a lynch now, though.

[RedCoyote]

Yes, McArthur was a war hero, that doesn't mean he's automatically town though. He has a very colorful history, including a feud with his boss, the Commander-in-Chief, President Truman.

Absolutely agree with getting rid of Bunny.

Unvote

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vote: Bunnylover

I was intending on giving a better post when the next day started, but it looks like this is going to drag out to the very last second. I'll try to get a wall post up before the day ends if that's the case.

[RedCoyote]

ThAdmiral, I actually did bring up Fuzzy's claim in a very negative way (Post 441), but because he wasn't here to respond, it kind of got shuffled underneath the fold.

[RedCoyote]

Lol, your role name is Ernesto Guevara? As in Che? Commie scum.

Confirm vote: Bunnylover

[RedCoyote]

Good job to the winning team.

Thank you for stepping up to take over modding duties, Sotty.