Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Sathoris]

hi guys
so, a few questions for you all:
1) how did you start playing mafia?
2) Are you better as scum, or town? Why?
3) What are your thoughts on the current setup?

1) I started playing mafia on a WoW forum board, when they stopped I moved to a Diablo forum board untill I discovered MS.net a few months ago and finally joined a game.
2) Scum. I tend to play aggresivly and that got me lynched a couple of times when I was the cop or the doc.
3) I usually only play in themed games because I like those setups and I'm glad I was in time to join this one. The theme sounds really interesting. Can't really say more because I only know my role and I have no clue what others might have. Well some clue maybe given it's set in the Cold War

[Sathoris]

Hey Sathoris! Glad to see you kept the avatar you used during my game, that avatar is awesome.

Vote: Sathoris

because he is crazy good at playing SK Sheriff with a jailkeeping ability and dayshots. Trust me on this one.

1)same diablo forum Sathoris is mentioning. Read the wiki here for some ideas, and then started playing here.
2)My record indicates scum. I feel like it is easier to ACT town than to BE town. This probably says something crazy f*cked up about me psychologically.
3)This question bothers me. I'm unclear what about the setup other than our own roles you are referring to. If it's just our own roles, this question is dangerously close to massive role fishing.

@Furc: What did you expect question 1 to add to the game? What did you expect from question 3?

Vote: LynchMePls

for not using the name I would've recognized.

I like question 1 as it lets me learn something about you guys and perhaps question 3 was intented as a sneaky way of tricking someone into divulging something? Already PoisonIvy is being circled because of her answer of question 3.

[Sathoris]

Unvote

random day one vote.

I read through some games and knew what to expect but you guys do vote for someone quickly. I'll probably have to get used to the long day phase and no lynch lock.

I'm surpised so many of you piled on PI just because of her initial response to the questions. You only know your role and the town's win condition but you don't know what other roles are distributed to townies. Perhaps you did just skim through the role name and assumed a certain setup.

Frankly I find the question more scumworthy than the answer. The mafia have a basic knowledge of their roles but can't know what roles are available to the townies. Besides one suspicious answer and that person get's cornered.

Vote: Furcolow

[Sathoris]

Perhaps

PoisonIvy

did just skim through the role name and assumed a certain setup.

edit: important typo

[Sathoris]

Any groups with the ability to talk at night may for so for another 24 hours.[/b][/size]

Mafia could daytalk for 24 hours into day one it seems.

[Sathoris]

also, my wagon STARTER is off my wagon
everyone else on my wagon, besides smargaret and scott, are bandwagoning sheep.

the rekindling of my wagon is likely scum-motivated
smargaret actually asked me a few questions, so i have to dismiss her
brosius has played with me before, and didn't particularly leave a good taste in my mouth - i guess that was mutual.

admiral/sathoris, however, are sheep
so is the 3rd person who just voted me

llamafluff, what made you come off my wagon, since you started it?
don't you want to be implicated as WHY I DIED whenever I flip town-aligned?

Just because the first person who voted for you decided against it doesn't mean the others are/were just following him. I'm a kind of player who always has a vote on the player he finds the most suspicious. You're not being wagon'd till you get lynched. You're suspicious to several people and they outed that suspicion by voting. Don't act all hurt and claiming powerful abilities to get the people who voted for you to be discredited.

You only reinforced my vote on you.

[Sathoris]

Where did I claim any powerful ability? I am not claiming anything, even up until my lynch.
Sorry if you misconstrued something I said.
Go ahead, lynch me. I'm in too many games at the moment, anyways, and I don't really have any good suspects.

Not in those words, but along the same lines:

I do not want to have to claim, but my survival is good for the town.

Antagonising players into lynching you isn't very pro-town either.

[Sathoris]

I fail to see the importance of the daytalk 'slip-up'. Everyone could read that any group with the ability to talk could do so for 24 hours. Not just mafia but a mason group aswell, if there is any. It's hardly vote worthy material.

[Sathoris]

Unvote

random day one vote.

Why did you feel the need to quantify your unvote as it being a random vote? This is just strange to me.

Why did you feel the need to bring up something trivial?

Furcolow is obv town in my eyes

Oh well if you say so... Anything more on that?

[Sathoris]

I'm sorry for my absence. I forgot to notify that I was a bit busy over the week. I'm also finding it a bit hard to break into this game. I'm not used to 3 week day phases, but I'll just have to try harder.

Expect a post explaining my (new) vote when I'm caught up.

[Sathoris]

also believe PI should be replaced

No prod first, just replaced without consideration? Why the rush? We've still got over 2 weeks left.

[Sathoris]

It's cause he replaced rat and he had his vote on furc.

Unvote

Not entirely content, but wasted as it is.

[Sathoris]

I'm sorry for the inactivity. I've been feeling sick the last week or so and spend 3 days resting in bed. Will read up on what I missed when I can.

[Sathoris]

Feeling a lot better now and I've got time to catch up a bit. I'll place my vote on the wagon I agree with the most and hopefully get a grip on the game once day 2 begins.

[Sathoris]

Of the two wagon's I mistrust Amrun the most. ThAd seems to eager to avoid a lynch on himself, as would anybody, but it doesn't seem toodesperate. Amrun felt he had to claim to get not lynched and messed it up a bit. The claim appears manufactured to me, going from memory to contruct a role only to later remember the inaccuracies. I'd look at my role PM again before I'd fully claim.

VOTE:

Amrun

[Sathoris]

852 disappoints me a lot Sathoris. Are you scum?

No, just getting back from being sick and getting a vote in on what I feel now before I do a more in depth read to catch up.

[Sathoris]

I don't like this, either. The mistakes in the claim made it seem far from "manufactured" to me.

Well, I've been fooled by someone claiming from memory and then changing small things back as he read his PM again.

[Sathoris]

I don't like this, either. The mistakes in the claim made it seem far from "manufactured" to me.

Well, I've been fooled by someone claiming from memory and then changing small things back as he read his PM again.

If they're scum, how would they fakeclaim from memory?

That's the thing, they don't. But by changing some things later they make you believe they were. Hence, I distrust it.

[Sathoris]

It's surprising how many of you switched to Bunny just because of one posts that conflicts with a post a predecessor made. We've had more than 3 weeks of daytime where everyone made at least several scumtells and some individuals made a buttload more.

I'm sticking with my vote on Amrun. PoisonIvy made several scumtells and came under pressure and didn't react all that well. Amrun replaced her and also came under pressure and was forced to claim which didn't absolve her. In fact the claim added more suspicion. Two players with one role making several scumtells which imo rules out any possibility of miscommunication.

I'm looking into the EGL/Gonnano votes because frankly I've been missing that side of the disucssion.

[Sathoris]

ThAd is town. Why are you voting confirmed town?

Unvote, Vote: LMP

Cause you only confirmed him as town and you just made a rather ambigious statement.

[Sathoris]

I can't believe Bunny is being wagon'd so quickly. Please note the people switching so quickly after bunny gets flipped.

[Sathoris]

I really think all those wikipedia bits about characters mean nothing. First line of the game:

A deeply flawed historical mafia event.

[Sathoris]

OK, I lied.
I'm not a veteran. Can you imagine why I would fakeclaim that? I'm so mad right now. Do you all want me to claim? I don't believe it is in the best interest of the town for me to really claim. The person I claimed is truth, but the role is not. My alignment is town.

Why did you claim the first time anyway? You didnt need to claim to avoid a lynch, if I remember correctly you weren't close to a lynch.

You've been acting like this all dayphase, squirmy.

[Sathoris]

My thoughts exactly. I have no idea why he's in the game.

Only thing I can think of is that is book, the Master and Margarita, is a promiment soviet satire and is aimed at the suffocatingly bureaucratic social order of the SU.

So in a way he can be considered as involved in the Cold War. It is a stretch though.

[Sathoris]

vote: furcolow

LAL

I'm not buying this

VOTE: Furcolow

[Sathoris]

vote: furcolow

LAL

I'm not buying this

VOTE: Furcolow

What makes selfvoting a scumtell?

It's far from a towntell. Invoking sympathy never works.

[Sathoris]

I think I'm most comfortable voting for Amrun. Reasons from yesterday+bragging about the night results.

VOTE: Amrun

What bragging?

[Sathoris]

ThAd's post 1260 quotes me quoting Amrun and linking to the wiki. Scroll up.

You do realize being suprised about the amount of night kills doesn't have to be gloating. I had my ideas about the game setup but frankly I didnt expect three night kills either.

Also don't interpret this as a defence of Amrun. I still think she's suspicious and I still don't trust her roleclaim, but adding gloating to your reasons for voting seems a bit presumptious.

[Sathoris]

It's far from a towntell. Invoking sympathy never works.

It's pretty much null to me. With all that's been going on, I think you should be able to find a better reason to vote someone than that.

A drop in the bucket.

[Sathoris]

And yet that's the only thing on Furc I saw you mention.

I've been suspicious of him the whole game. If you read my posts in D1 then you'll find they're mostly about Furculow. I didn't want to unvote him but I was the only one left and I felt my vote would be more useful on someone else.

Now that Furculow is once again being voted I'm happy to place my vote back on him.

[Sathoris]

I'm disliking the 'whatever' by furculow, that's two times now. I was a bit worried he might be a jester during the first day. And now he just makes it so easy for us to lynch him. He's making powers up then lying about it and not caring. I've just got a nasty feeling he's playing right into our hands and it's more beneficial for him.

UNVOTE: Furculow

For now, don't want to wagon him too quickly.

-Are jesters common in these sort of games?-

I saw LMP answer this already, but since I've played with Sathoris more, I'll add my own opinion. In the games I've played with Sathoris he has usually been quite aggressive, and the last time I noted him being cautious he was a cult leader. Those games were much faster than this one so it makes sense that his play would be somewhat different, but I do see cause for suspicion.

If Sathoris was used to faster games, I would think he'd be more likely to play the opposite of how he is right now...as in, be

more

active and aggressive than the typical MS player.

I am usually a lot more belligerent, as I said in my first post here. And yes I am used to 'shorter' games. These games however move a lot faster than the ones I'm used to. Over time I'll probably adapt and join the fast paced action. Right now I'm still finding it a bit hard to mingle in. I don't know any of you people's meta games, or anything for that matter. That said I have been in this game for over a month so I'll post my list of who I think are most likely town and scum.

Town

Feysal
nachomma8
InflatablePie
Bvoigt
Amrun
Scott Brosius
Xscorpion
Artem
Beasts of the Sea
Gonanno
ThAdmiral
LynchMePls
EGL
Smargaret
Mothrax
Lowell
Stephoscope
DavidParker
Furculow

Scum

Why are you waiting for an explanation? I've clearly stated I have no intention of giving one.

Then why did you go through the trouble of semi vouching for ThAd's role if you're not going to explain it and your nameclaim has nothing to do with ThAd's?

Vote: Furcolow

He's been the obvious lynch since the beginning of today.

Yet you hardly provide any reasons.

Does anyone have any possibly-valid reasons why Furcolow's not busted?

Why don't you look into your own vote on furc and provide us reasons why he is busted.

[Sathoris]

Sathoris - yesterday, you were on Amrun/PI straight through the end of the day. You listed reasons that had nothing to do with being McCarthy for voting her.

Why is she suddenly a townread?

I was on Furculow most of the day, I only switched away from him to focus on the two most likely lynches at the time: ThAd and Amrun. As I explained in my voting post #852 I went for Amrun because I didn't trust his claim that much.

When suddenly Bunny got wagon'd in no time whatsoever I brought up that the reason Bunny was being lynched was ridiculous and that my preferred lynch then, amrun together with PI, made a lot more scumtells which can't be based on miscommunication, in comparison to Bunny's lynch. Post #1042

I never had Amrun on my top list as scum, just as my top possible lynch of D1. Events during D2 such as Che coming out as town and DP/Furc acting so scummy doesn't make Amrun a lynch target for me anymore and pushed her up the town list. Admittedly he is a bit high. The middle bit is more random then the top ~4 on both ends. Though I still stand by it.

[Sathoris]

Jester speculation is useless. Furc needs to be our lynch today. Sathoris' increased participation after being called out for it is noted.

Heh fair enough, I'll take that suspicion for finally breaking into the game.

Can we lynch me if Amrun ISNT Scum? Because considering me vs poisonivy on d1 would really clear me, and they CLAIMED SILENCER, are you all fucking kidding me?
terrible fucking players

Why would Amrun coming up as town make you the best lynch? You're not connected in any way, or are you? Comparing you vs PI on D1 I'd pick you as my lynch target any day. You're again acting shifty, posting three times in a row with caps, calling us terrible players, claiming a power role.

Besides, you're saying Amrun is a better lynch than you because he claimed silencer? While you fakeclaimed, weaseled your way out of it and now claim a big power role to scare us off?

[Sathoris]

A more closer look at your posts, furc, suggests you didn't even find Amrun scummy anymore at the end of Day1. Even though she already claimed silencer, which is your reason for voting her now.

#934

Actually, I'm not so sure about Amrun.

#932

Actually, I'm not at all certain that Amrun is scum

The only time you bring up Amrun since then is about supposedly gloating and then you're back on amrun because all of a sudden you don't believe the town silencer role anymore.

#1277

unvote

Would someone quote where Amrun was supposedly gloating? I view that as a scumslip.

#1326

town...silencer... yeah, right

vote: amrun

[Sathoris]

While I agree DP is scummy. I thought the general concensus was that there'd be 2 scum teams? DP could be in a different team and not know Furc is scum aswell. It does look like he's saying what LMP translated but that doesn't make Furc town.

And could you please answer my question DP.

Why are you waiting for an explanation? I've clearly stated I have no intention of giving one.

Then why did you go through the trouble of semi vouching for ThAd's role if you're not going to explain it and your nameclaim has nothing to do with ThAd's?

[Sathoris]

There's no town-benefit to a full-claim at this point.

Also I knew fully well what I was posting. Voting me because of that post is comical at best.

Did you see me cast a vote? Getting nervous there?

[Sathoris]

The question I ask and pose on you all now is this: If I was scum, would I simply not care? Because I don't. This is just a silly wagon based upon someone who is likely scum picking up on a "slip" I made/chink in my armor as I have been trying to WIFOM and protect myself. I am not used to being a medic/doctor....

Your case is built on a lot more then a simple "slip". You've been lying and talking nonsense all game. Whatever your role, you're playing seriously anti-town.

Sathoris, why are you so convinced there are multiple teams... ?
I doubt there are.

General concensus. Besides, from the night kills I reckon the US/Allies are in a bunker and the Soviet/Allies are in a bunker. People getting killed are the victim of a mafia attack. People being pulled out of a bunker are a victim of a third parth not involved in the busines of the people stuck in bunkers.

You rather think there are 2 vigilantes and 1 scum team? Most, if not all, of the 'game over' games I looked through of this size had 2 mafia teams.

But this is distracting from the choice at hand. You and Dp are definately acting anti-town. However your early play could be partly attributed to a doc role acting suspicious and trying to avoid a night kill. But there are a lot of inconsistencies. I'll think about who to vote for a while.

[Sathoris]

@sathoris' 1382- why do I care how many scumteams there are?

I don't know why you would or wouldn't care. Except that ignoring information we have to find out who's scum isn't very pro-town. If you continue to follow the game without caring how many scum there are then you're not going to be optimal in scumhunting. So if you're town I hope you start to care. If not, well that tells me something..

I'm not convinced DP is scum, but he did post a lot of one liners like this one

Now I feel like you're just mocking us and taking advantage of the mislynch scare about you. I only unvoted you because I was afraid you might be wagond too quickly but since that is not the case anymore.

VOTE: Furculow

[Sathoris]

Well, Sathoris, I am very suspicious of you since you PMed me a week ago

Haha, cause I Pmed you happy birthday when I noticed the cake next to your name? Damnit, what was I thinking being nice...

[Sathoris]

Because I'm new here and I like to be friendly to people. Seriously why is this even coming up in this game. I've been playing with you and iPie from a month or so now so I though I'd wish you a happy birthday. Dont worry though, I won't do the same for you next year, furc.

Besides your reasoning is completely off. I've been against you all game. I have no motives to get on your good side in this game.

[Sathoris]

If I knew furculow would blow this way out of proportion I wouldn't have bothered. Strictly business here then. This has derailed the game long enough. Your attempt of trying to blow something up to shift attention from yourself has been noted furculow..

[Sathoris]

None of the stuff XScorpion votes over is actually scummy.

Furc was caught lying
FURC WAS LYING
WHY IS HE STILL ALIVE
WTF PEOPLE

I share this sentiment.

Also I'm dissapointed in bvoigt. How can you have DP on your town list and find Artem's replacement vote more in the area of unsure than DP's entire gameplay. And I think I've explained my timely vote on Furc under the self voting quote.

[Sathoris]

You thought that when I was linking my scum meta?
I really need to get into a better game. This game has gone to shit, and I'm just a townie, why did CallMeLiam ask me to play then flake?

And now it's just a townie..

People please vote this guy, it's getting ridiculous he's still alive now.

[Sathoris]

Amrun

- 11 - VP Baltar, bvoigt,

Nachomamma8

, smargaret, Furcolow,

Debonair Danny DiPietro

, LynchMePls

Bunnylover

- 13 -

LlamaFluff

,

Amrun

,

RedCoyote

, bvoigt, smargaret, Lowell,

Nachomamma8

If there isn't scum in that group I will eat my hat. Nay, I will eat everybody's hats.

Both trains are based on 1 supposed slip and got hammered very quickly. Smarg is the on more or less the same position in both trains. Given previous interactions she's likely scum. Given our failure to lynch someone who's been lying repeatedly and given us enough reasons to lynch him, I'm going for a more realistic lynch.

VOTE: Smarg

[Sathoris]

Furc, things change.

Feysal is likely town. Sathoris, you're overlooking that we found the scum in the first seven on the Amrun wagon - it was VPB.

He started it yeah, you followed in the same quick way you did as on Bunny.

[Sathoris]

Did sathoris really post to tell me at least one of seven people on his list is scum? why? Even after it was explained I don't get what the vote analysis was supposed to prove. Other than quasi-logic to justify bandwagonny.

fos sath

THIS is how you bandwagon.

unvote, vote smarg

I posted it because smarg's vote was alarmingly the same as on the bunny wagon.

[Sathoris]

Going to be V/LA untill late sunday afternoon.

Unvoting based on a peaceful sounding name is ridiculious.

[Sathoris]

perhaps we should doctor her neighbor

assuming we have one

Didn't you claim doctor?

I'm sorry but you so need to be lynched today. UNVOTE: Smarg VOTE: Furcolow

[Sathoris]

Unvote
Vote: Gonanno

Full disclosure: This game is really boring me. There have been an insane number of replacements though, so I'm going to try to hang in there.

I'm having the same feeling.

[Sathoris]

Sorry for my absence, I've already had to replace out of one game but things are livening up on the time front. I'll get back on this game asap!

[Sathoris]

Why would he claim the neighbour when votes on smarg were dropping and he was under no suspicion. It would only draw suspicion onto himself because smarg isn't sure wether his neighbour has the same wincon as he does.

[Sathoris]

Hate to be feysalling but I'm not sure where to place my vote.

I know for a fact that smargaret is Willy Brandt, West German neighbor, and she knows similarly who I am. While I'm at it, I can also reveal two clues I left to my role and nationality. The major one was in post #462, my second one in the game. Take the first letter of each sentence, paragraph by paragraph, and you get AUFERSTANDEN AUS RUINEN, the name and first verse of the East German anthem, which I rather like.


The key here is that I implied Bunnylover would be either Cuban or Soviet, not both. At the time, from my own role, I thought that Soviet townies would not have a nationality other than Soviet. My role has no mention of me being East German anywhere. It was not until VP Baltar flipped Vietnamese Soviet that I learned otherwise

Why would you leave such an elaborate clue that only you can find out. (Obviousy to reference back to as you're doing now) At the time when you knew your role never mentioned you as East German. Why not leave a soviet clue hidden somewhere?

[Sathoris]

Not voting - 4 - Feysal, Enigma, Sathoris, PeregrineV

THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING IT WRONG. VOTE PLEASE.

PeregrineV replaced DP, right? I'm fine with that wagon too.

I'm probably gonna vote Feysal, but you think I might hear his defence first before I vote him?

[Sathoris]

I think Sathoris said it also, but I'd like to hear Feysal respond to my questions, smargarets questions, and any others people might have. I think it makes the most sense to hear what he has to say, then vote how we want.

And I think sitting around with our thumbs up our butts letting one player bottleneck the whole game is anti-town.

If no answers are given I'm sure we get enough people to vote for Feysal before the day ends. I just like to hear feysal's defence first. He's always giving his last thoughts when he's needed and I'd feel wrong hammering him before I hear them.

[Sathoris]

Same principle. If I vote for him I vote to lynch him, which I don't want untill he says something.

[Sathoris]

I'll probably vote Feysal today because I've seen him been catching up somewhere else twice in the time he hasn't even acknoleged being needed here. It's not pro-town by any stretch of the imagination. I think his motives were pure earlier on, but he's reluctant to follow up on that. I haven't seen feysal near lynch as mafia before and I've never seen this side to him before. 1+1=2

Smarg, I didn't say that reason applied to every vote. I just meant it for this vote. I'd feel uncomfortable voting for feysal just to put pressure on him to post because there's plenty of that.

[Sathoris]

What's bad with some initial raw data? I'm happy someone is making the effort to provide something to talk about. People, including me, have been coasting and it can only hurt the town. And if PV will continue then that's even better. To label it scummy seems a bit rash.

[Sathoris]

While that may be true for now he also mentioned his desire to follow up with different data and give his analysis. Seeing as we've got plenty of time left this dayphase there's no need to condemn him so soon.

[Sathoris]

Well poisoned was the Soviet scum telltale wasn't it. Intentional, I'm not so sure. Scott didn't appear that scum or townie. I think the last soviet scum took a shot in the dark and happen to hit a US mafia.

While typing this. Why are some people thinking it could be 8v2? We already have one vig odd night vig down so one even night vig left. One kill from the vig (removed from bunker) one kill from the soviet (Poisoned) and one from the US team (Assassinated)

VOTE: PeregrineV

How do you think we might be in a 8v2 situation unless you know something else?

[Sathoris]

Oh right, the games I started mafia on didn't always allow kills when you got NK'ed

UNVOTE: Peregri

I'm usually in favor of massclaiming. If we're 8v2 then we should. If we're 6v1v3 it might be. Odds says we should so I'm in favor.

[Sathoris]

His 1352 eluding to a single scum team (and so many damn town reads) honestly awe me.
Let's play some easter egg hunter found in this spoiler here.

Please point me to the sentence where you think I'm eluding to a single scum team.

[Sathoris]

And frankly, I have no idea what we are still facing. You seem pretty sure it's not 8v2. Can you please elaborate?

If mafia only had 3 members then there would be 6 mafia in total out of 24. There are two vigs, odd and even night vigs. If I were to host a game with that setup I'd merge the two scumteam into one to avoid crosskills and give them a better chance. Now since we know there are two scumteams I'd be more likely there are 4 players in each group. We've already had 4 crosskills.

Ofcourse I'm new here and I'm still rather unfamilair of standard setups, but for balance purposes I think it's 6v3v1

[Sathoris]

I don't call 19 people town. As I say in my post after this one.

The middle bit is more random then the top ~4 on both ends. Though I still stand by it.

The method I used just incorperates everyone in the game but the top3-4 more accurately represent my feelings on their allignement.

[Sathoris]

True. I haven't got time to properly make a case on my suspects. I'll try and do that this week when things have settled down.

I don't like the apparent free card Lowell is getting. He's not taking advantage of it, but rather draws our attention to the attempt. I like it.
Furculow's lived past the hairy days and isn't on anyone's lynch list anymore. He did keep us going sometime ago when things were quiet and he couldve so easily just kept quiet aswell.

The Fonz is trying to run the town more and more with large postings and commenting and anything he can get his hands. I'm not sure he's always like that, but I'm not comfortable with it. Especially since Jmj and mothrax were quite the opposite but all got the same role.
Then again you're doing something similar.
I had bvoigt as town for a long time but a day ago or so he started to drop on my townie list, can't remember exactly why anymore. I think I posted something about it earlier. Also I find it strange he first questions wether we would benefit from a name claim but then suggest a nationality claim. Why would that be better bvoight?

But that's just some thoughts that came to me. I can't say who I want to lynch today because I would need to catch up on my suspect a bit beforehand.

[Sathoris]

"The Fonz is trying to run the town more and more with large postings and commenting and anything he can get his hands"

Should be

The fonz is trying to run the town more and more with large posting and he's commenting on everything he can get his hands on.

[Sathoris]

Cuban I can understand, but I still fail to understand why you would think of American as a threat to peace. Remember in this world, America is glorified as the protector of peace and common sense would dictate that America be the protagonist in this game.

When can we start getting move votes on this fella guys?

Cold War Mafia

A deeply flawed historical mafia event.

Don't assume anything based on nationalities and names. Scott turned out to be J Edgar Hoover. Someone you would classify as 'the protector of peace and common sense'.

[Sathoris]

Che flipping town cuban roleblocker raised a few eyebrows.

[Sathoris]

One, you're sheeping Enigma here. Two, let me rephrase that without the spin you put on it: "Fonz is creating content, giving opinions and reads, and trying to convince other people of them."

I'll respond to BoTS separately.

That's your side of the coin.

[Sathoris]

@smargaret- I'm sorry you feel that way. I will try to be more like you.

You promised analyis aswell. But your latest post was just the same, plus you added a (useless) question.

[Sathoris]

Enigma just claimed Lyndon Johnson

vote: Enigma

LBJ isn't out of place here, unless there's something I'm missing?

[Sathoris]

Heh, well I'm going on a holiday from sunday till friday, but I'll check in at least two times so I won't be absent for longer than 48 hours.

Do I need to popcorn.
I'll popcorn to Sathoris. KGO

If this is what people want I'll nationality claim before I leave.

[Sathoris]

Right, nationality claim: Albanian

Next: Bvoigt

[Sathoris]

Sorry for only replying now. More shut off here than I though and only just managed to find a place with internet connection but it shuts down in 8 minutes.

Enigma is not my preferred lynch at the moment, I'd rather see Bvoigt lynched than Enigma at the moment so I'll put my vote on him for now.
VOTE: Bvoight

I'll be back friday afternoon with full inet access.

[Sathoris]

@Sathoris- Can you provide your thoughts on the final breakdown of scum remaining and list where you believe each player to be?

1

Beasts of the Sea

- We know there are european nationalities in this game, I doubt the british are the sole representative. I believe he's french, but that doesn't absolve him from being USA scum. If a vietnamese was in the Soviet scum team than a british or french guy can certainly be so aswell.

US Scum

4

Enigma

- We've got six confirmed dead US townies. With a probably 4 extra as scum that leaves 1 US townie left and as I think that belongs to ThAd I'm gonna say

US Scum

6

PeregrineV

- Posted his voting tables but the promises analysis hasn't been delivered. Claimed soviet, which is suspicious in it's own.

Soviet scum

8

ThAdmiral

- Appeared town in my eyes since his first claim.

US townie

10

Furcolow

- Lying all throughout the whole game. Now he's claiming doctor again. I don't buy it. I'm with the Fonz on this one. Lynch the liars.

Soviet scum

11

Lowell

- Soviet claim again isn't telling us a lot but since there is only one contender for a soviet scum and he's been playing town in my eyes he's lowest on that list, so

Soviet townie

13

smargaret

- Depending on the nationality of the last Soviet scum this could be an interesting lynch. If the last soviet scum flipped a nationality different than soviet. (i.e. Vietnamese or Chinese) Then we can assume the US scum have two US players and two of different nationalities aswell. Smarg and BotS then stand out. But the whole neighbour thing makes me uncertain whether she would be US scum.

West German Townie

18

bvoigt

- I don't think he's soviet and I don't think he's Soviet scum either.

US Scum

22

The Fonz

- He's on the right track

Polish townie

I have two Soviet scum even though there only is one spot left. (If any, but I think so) My heart tells me it's furcolow because he's been lying all the time and my brain says PeregrineV.

[Sathoris]

I am, in fact, a doctor

No you're not. I'm still fine with a lynch on you, you can't seem to stop lying.

perhaps we should doctor her neighbor

assuming we have one

[Sathoris]

I actually have my vote on Bvoight now but I'm going to UNVOTE: Bvoigt and VOTE: Engima because we're nearing the day's deadline and after I've made my post and organized my thoughts I think he's a better lynch.

It's tricky to have a priority between furc, PV and Enigma, but I think I have it like this: 1) Engima 2) Furc, 3) PV

[Sathoris]

@Sathoris- Can you provide your thoughts on the final breakdown of scum remaining and list where you believe each player to be?

1

Beasts of the Sea

- We know there are european nationalities in this game, I doubt the british are the sole representative. I believe he's french, but that doesn't absolve him from being USA scum. If a vietnamese was in the Soviet scum team than a british or french guy can certainly be so aswell.

US Scum

4

Enigma

- We've got six confirmed dead US townies. With a probably 4 extra as scum that leaves 1 US townie left and as I think that belongs to ThAd I'm gonna say

US Scum

6

PeregrineV

- Posted his voting tables but the promises analysis hasn't been delivered. Claimed soviet, which is suspicious in it's own.

Soviet scum

8

ThAdmiral

- Appeared town in my eyes since his first claim.

US townie

10

Furcolow

- Lying all throughout the whole game. Now he's claiming doctor again. I don't buy it. I'm with the Fonz on this one. Lynch the liars.

Soviet scum

11

Lowell

- Soviet claim again isn't telling us a lot but since there is only one contender for a soviet scum and he's been playing town in my eyes he's lowest on that list, so

Soviet townie

13

smargaret

- Depending on the nationality of the last Soviet scum this could be an interesting lynch. If the last soviet scum flipped a nationality different than soviet. (i.e. Vietnamese or Chinese) Then we can assume the US scum have two US players and two of different nationalities aswell. Smarg and BotS then stand out. But the whole neighbour thing makes me uncertain whether she would be US scum.

West German Townie

18

bvoigt

- I don't think he's soviet and I don't think he's Soviet scum either.

US Scum

22

The Fonz

- He's on the right track

Polish townie

I have two Soviet scum even though there only is one spot left. (If any, but I think so) My heart tells me it's furcolow because he's been lying all the time and my brain says PeregrineV.

@Sathoris- Here, almost all your reads are setup based. It's supposed to be one tool. Can you supply any supporting evidence (links would be best, but even summaries of why helps)

in addition

to the setup answer.
Furcolow is the only one you mentioned because of his playstyle.

You asked to give us reads with the remaining slots for mafia. By power of deduction I can't name 3 people Soviet Scum. If I think one person is more likely to fill that slot I'm not going to waste my time naming someone else scum aswell when I clearly think someone else already has that role.

True enough I did base the remaining scum of off nationality claims, but what other tools do I have to judge a player besides their playing style. I didn't blindly trust every nationality claim, only the ones I believed to be true. which coincedentally matched their playing style. You see I can only judge players from this game. I don't know if Jmj and mothrax always play the way they do or if it's because of their role. I do know Fonz is playing like I saw him play somewhere else where he was town. So I can only go off of that.

Besides I'm not going to make a case on every person one day short of the deadline when the upcoming lynch might change some stuff. I promise I'll back up me reads with some posts which I think back up my reads, if I live through the night.

[Sathoris]

@Sathoris- we are kind of looking for 1 or no soviet scum and 2 or 3 us scum.
But, good try.

That's what my list gives you. I don't see your problem with me basing some of my reads on the availability of scum roles.

[Sathoris]

@Sathoris- we are kind of looking for 1 or no soviet scum and 2 or 3 us scum.
But, good try.

That's what my list gives you. I don't see your problem with me basing some of my reads on the availability of scum roles.

No, I was being slightly sarcastic. What I meant was that there was only 1, if any slot, slot left for Soviet Scum. I found three people suspicious. Obviously not all can be soviet scum so I went with my top two and gave the other a free pass because he wasn't as high as the other two.

Then you probably meant US here?

You asked to give us reads with the remaining slots for mafia. By power of deduction I can't name 3 people Soviet Scum.

And even so I can name three people US scum, which I did

I can't see what you're on about. My posts with my reads was simple enough.

[Sathoris]

Fonz when you talked with PeregrineV about actually researching Kadar in relation to nationality it made me relate to you on a personal level, because I have investigated who is likely to be scum in relation to who we have had flip.

That is also a reason for my voting of Enigma.

I don't like this one bit. What are you trying to accomplish here?

[Sathoris]

Fail qouting in my first post, first paragraph should refer to second quote.

[Sathoris]

Surprised to see furc flip town. He's been claiming doc, but he clearly wasn't. Seems a bit strange to claim a power role when you're just a townie. But that means one of my suspects for soviet scum is dead so it only leaves one: PV. (Seen those vote analysis somewhere yet?)

Also he's been going after BotS more or less on his own last dayphase and gave up when nobody followed him. If he's the last Soviet Scum he'll be attempting to kill off the US scum first so not to lose when the town are dead. I think he went after BotS during the night when he though Beasts was scum during the day.

Soviet scum: PV
Us Scum: Enigma and Bvoigt or Lowell.
Town: Thad, Fonz

US shouldn't be scared to claim their own nationality as they have been underrepresented anyway. Which makes me think at least one of the claimed US is town. Which is ThAd in my eyes. The other US scum might not have the US nationality as Beasts didn't have either. Though Beats had De Gualle, which is safe enough. But what if the other US scum has a european nationality aswell, but not as peaceful as De Gaulle. Too dangerous to pick a country out of the Soviet Union because there's only going to be one of those anyway and you could be counterclaimed. A Soviet claim is safe because you can hide inanonymity.

I think we should nameclaim sooner rather than later. There is are at least two scum in the claimed Soviets.

[Sathoris]

Me claiming first doesn't really change anything. My name must be known by now if you know my nationality and the period this game is in. I'd rather see PV claim first, or enigma. They're both almost guaranteed scum.

But I suggest we let the majority decides who claims first.

The claim logic strongly suggests Sathoris

What claim logic?

[Sathoris]

Just like PV's vote tables. Data but no analysis. Your conclusion of these wagons is?

[Sathoris]

That wagon didn't end up in a lynch though. The wagon in which smarg was actually lynched is:

smargaret - 6 -

ThAdmiral, The Fonz, bvoigt, Enigma, Lowell, PeregrineV

I'll claim first if we use popcorn claims. PV goes after me.

[Sathoris]

Ehm, replace PV with Enigma in my last sentence.

[Sathoris]

Enver Hoxha, Albanian Townie.

Engima next.

[Sathoris]

Oh yeah, somehow I thought he only nameclaimed. PV in that case

[Sathoris]

Yeah.. PV that's no fullclaim, just a name.

And there's no problem with the vig claiming. We're probably not going to lynch the vig and tonight is probably the last time he can use his shot. We've already had a mafia RB, I doubt the soviets have one too.

Besides if one doesn't fullclaim we'll know he's hiding something and if he's the vig he might be mislynched. Plus it gives the mafia a nice chance to avoid fullclaiming. So I say again.

Full claim please PV and pass the popcorn.

[Sathoris]

What does it matter? All it does is give the mafia here a chance to not claim.

[Sathoris]

He said DP claimed soviet townie. All DP did was claim "Russian town-aligned player.

Just want to be sure. PV is just vanilla townie then?

[Sathoris]

Enigma and PV are guarenteed scum, I can't see a scenario where they're not.

@Sathoris- Can you tell us why you are not the remaining Soviet scum player?

Stuff like this. How am I going to prove I'm not a Soviet scum? I could tell you I had no interaction with any of them. But you could read that as distancing. I could say I did have interaction with them and it would be bussing. Same can be said with any votes on them.

Besides if I get suspected of being mafia it's of being US scum. You're trying to find a scapegoat for the soviet scum spot. You've got better luck fixating on Engima, cause if you're not it, he is.

VOTE: PV

[Sathoris]

Hmm, my post turned out all wrong.

PV is the only one reading me as Soviet Scum. I'm pretty sure he's the last Soviet scum and he knows it. The only way to pin the last Soviet scum would be on me. I'm already being suspected of scum and I'm the best bet to accuse of Soviet Scum. Out of Enigma, Lowell and me, Enigma claimed american and is high on the list for US scum, Lowell is up in the air but more likely than Bvoigt of being US scum. The only one left is me.

He's playing exactly as the last Soviet scum would. After his interaction with Bots he realised he could well be US scum and he wasn't going to get lynched so he gave up and hit him overnight. Accusing me of Soviet scum and hitting Enigma or Lowell tonight, with the vig taking out the other scum he's the last one standing. That's the best possible scenatio for him.

And what I meant with the bit you're quoting is that others and you have me pegged as US scum if I'm scum. It's a lot less likely I'm actually Soviet scum, if I were scum. But there are only two US scum. Lowell and PV could then be US scum with Enigma Soviet. Not out of the realm of impossibility, but then I would be doing what PV's trying to do. Push for unlikely scum scenarios.

[Sathoris]

OK, the thing I noted that I was holding back. When PeregrineV linked DavidParker's claim, which itself linked the wikipedia page on Mikhail Bulgakov, I went and read that article: I had thought I had done so at the time, but I guess I only scanned it. Anyway, the important fact arising from that is that Bulgakov was not, in fact, alive at any point during the Cold War- he died in 1940, before the USSR even entered WWII.

What are the odds on there being only one person in the game not alive in the Cold War and it's claim is held by a suspected scum.

[Sathoris]

Why?
And. Why. Is. Thad. Voting. Sathoris?

Since we're ignoring PV cause we can't afford a misskill from the vig it's between you and me from Fonz' pov. But thAd is among the possibilities aswell. It's all about minimizing suspects for bvoigt to kill tonight.

VOTE: Enigma

Actually greater than the odds of Feysal being town and Smarg both being town and having Feysal's rolename listed differently in the two role pms. But still not very likely.

That was due to mod error I reckon. This certainly can't be.

[Sathoris]

VOTE: Sathoris

Trying to decide exactly what I want to do. The VCA is convincing, but my theory makes Enigma town....

Which theory?

[Sathoris]

VOTE: Sathoris

Trying to decide exactly what I want to do. The VCA is convincing, but my theory makes Enigma town....

Which theory?

Yesterday, I was thinking that since we had 10 capitalists and 14 communists, 2 of the 3 US mafia were lying about their nationalities. So with Beasts' flip, that gives me town reads on Enigma and ThAd.

You'd rather place your trust in the game setup, which is unconfirmed if it even has even numbers of capitalists and cummunists, than in game play and analysis?

[Sathoris]

Do you mind if I ask what kind of scum read you have on me. I'd be happy to alleviate some of your concerns.

[Sathoris]

Here are a few things I've noticed about Sathoris. Fonz, I'll look into their links later.

Of the two wagon's I mistrust Amrun the most. ThAd seems to eager to avoid a lynch on himself, as would anybody, but it doesn't seem toodesperate. Amrun felt he had to claim to get not lynched and messed it up a bit. The claim appears manufactured to me, going from memory to contruct a role only to later remember the inaccuracies. I'd look at my role PM again before I'd fully claim.

VOTE:

Amrun

This reason feels forced. Why would a "manufactured" claim have several inconsistencies?

Well as I mentioned in a post after that one I said that, on the board where I played prior to joining mafiascum, someone made a very convincing claim. He claimed a sleepless shopkeeper and later changed it to sleepless shopkeep after "looking at his PM again". Now I know this isn't like that, but as this was my frst game here I thought back of that and acted on it.

If you look back at my post you see we already had a small discussion on why I thought it seemed manifactured.

I'm surpised so many of you piled on PI just because of her initial response to the questions. You only know your role and the town's win condition but you don't know what other roles are distributed to townies. Perhaps you did just skim through the role name and assumed a certain setup.

Frankly I find the question more scumworthy than the answer. The mafia have a basic knowledge of their roles but can't know what roles are available to the townies. Besides one suspicious answer and that person get's cornered.

Vote: Furcolow

I'm sticking with my vote on Amrun. PoisonIvy made several scumtells and came under pressure and didn't react all that well. Amrun replaced her and also came under pressure and was forced to claim which didn't absolve her. In fact the claim added more suspicion. Two players with one role making several scumtells which imo rules out any possibility of miscommunication.

These two quotes contradict each other. Early in the game, Sathoris didn't seem to buy the case on PoisonIvy, but then he changed his tune and claimed she made several scumtells.

True enough I thought the early pressure on PI was unfair. She was solely under pressure because of her take on the game setup. But when she was under pressure she reacted. Calling her wagon a farce and then dissapearing. (Ofc she hasn't posted anywhere anymore, but at the time I couldn't know that) Amrum also said PI dissapeared because she couldn't take the heat.

My first post you quoted was

before

PI made those 'tells' so I said what I said because being under pressure for guessing the game setup wrongly is hardly vote worthy.

Now my second post came after Amrun replaced in. She also said PI made several mistakes. Not quite apologising for her preddecesor, but acknoledging nonetheless. And well as I said, the claim coupled with more scummy play that can't be miscommunication anymore for one role made me put my vote there.

vote: furcolow

LAL

I'm not buying this

VOTE: Furcolow

As I've mentioned, selfvoting is a nulltell. Voting someone because of it seems like a policy vote rather than real scumhunting.

Well at that time it somewhat morphed into a policy lynch. I'm maintained my suspicion on furc throughout the entire game and this was the first vote of the day to put my vote back on him. And you might call it a nulltell, but I can't see the reason for town to vote for themselves. At least the mafia might get some sympathy out of it.

The Fonz is trying to run the town more and more with large postings and commenting and anything he can get his hands. I'm not sure he's always like that, but I'm not comfortable with it. Especially since Jmj and mothrax were quite the opposite but all got the same role.
Then again you're doing something similar.

22

The Fonz

- He's on the right track

Polish townie

Here's another contradictory read. Sathoris, what made you change your mind between these posts?

Mind you my first post was before the nameclaim and the Fonz put in a lot of work since then. Before that he was more or less focussed on smarg and pushing for his lynch. Hence my statement of him trying to sway us unto his plan. But as I said the nameclaiming business really changed my view on him. Reads change.

[Sathoris]

Focusing is good yeah, but you were nearly lasering in on him. That he had to be lynched because he put himself in a 1-1 situation. I didn't agree at the time. But I never said it was scummy. I said I wasn't comfortable with it. You had (in my view) a faulty case on smarg and you commented on lots of stuff, but never swaying from your goal of lynching smarg.

[Sathoris]

Thing is, I was unsure and uncomfortable with you being all over the place. During the nameclaiming stage I got convinced of your townie status and your posts helped a lot.

[Sathoris]

But this policy lynch wasn't for something like lying, or rolefishing, which helps scum and hurts town. This was for an action that hurts both town and scum. And that is why I don't see it as real scumhunting.

It hurts town more. You viewed it as a nulltell. But others, like me, saw it as an act to get sympathy. Sympythay towards a scum players helps scum.

Could you please show me the scumtells she made after that first post?

PI's first post?

Hey guise! lets just hang me and the rest of ye guise can have fun disecting my farce of a wagon.

Ya know, actual substance. What people are doing are hanging back and delaying the inevitable.

Ive given my thoughts and opinions and as it is not good enough and i am the only wagon with so many "haters" then by all accounts my flipping should shed light on many varies of peoples.

And leaving after:

Then hang me Parker.

Vigs however, please hold your fire.

Because I, as others, thought she couldn't take the heat.

[Sathoris]

You know what? I might as well just claim. Yuri Gagarin, Soviet Even-Night Vigilante. I killed Nacho and Steph. This shows that the game has at least some flavor symmetry, FWIW...one vig is an American astronaut, the other is a Soviet astronaut.

I saw this in the voting patterns, when I was looking the living players votes. The person you most voted for was the vig target the following night. I almost came out and said it, but then remembered the whole odd/even day thing.

This more or less confirms peregrine as town in my mind. Surely he would have killed the vig if he was scum.

You know it's easy to say you knew who the vig was after he already claimed. Who would be the last soviet scum in your view?

[Sathoris]

Well you can look at any one post of anyone and find something wrong with it to pounce on. And if you're making this decision based on that post alone than I can't help you.

[Sathoris]

This was my first game here. I had trouble adapting to the long day deadlines and the amount of posts. I mentioned this a few times earlier in the game. And if you have other other points then name them. I've explained my view on the things you already brought up.

I'll try and find some more evidence of why you should vote enigma tomorrow if work allows me, or if PV doesn't lock anyone by then.

[Sathoris]

Well, as per 2529, the last soviets are Lowell, Peregrine, bvoigt, Sathoris (albania), and TheFonz (poland).

I know me and bvoigt, leaving Lowell, Sathoris & TheFonz.

However, we also have 2 american scum left, as only two have been lynched so far.

The only American claims are Enigma & ThAd.

Since ThAd is town, that leaves Enigma as one of the last two American scum.

Which means, one of the "Soviets" is lying.

I pick Lowell to be lying, leaving Sathoris and Fonz.

TheFonz's play has seemed to be town, so that leaves Sathoris as the last Soviet.

I believe you may well be right, except that I'm the soviet townie and you're the soviet mafia

[Sathoris]

I'm willing to vote for Enigma.

Good, cause I'd rather a have townie decide my fate than a soviet mafia.

[Sathoris]

Well played Fonz, I was utterly convinced PV was the last Soviet. But when you killed ThAd it became clear PV would never kill the one guy believing him. I feel we played well with the tools we were given. Neither one of us got himself lynched.

I had a blast playing here and I thought the playerbase was great aswell. Thanks for picking up the mod dutys when it mattered Sotty!

[Sathoris]

Honestly I forgot about the wincon and when I did I didn't think it would include US townies. But even if we did take out BV we wouldn't never got to fulfill our wincon because by doing so it would have to 1v1v0 anyway and we'd already won.

I figured it could either end up in a 2v1v1 situation, at which point scum could be lynched. But BV self voted and it ended there. A scum lynch would guarantee the rivalscum a win, hence eliminating support for PV which we thought was soviet scum. A no lynch would be as uncertain as in a 1v1v1 night, which we ended up in anyway.

With a chance for a lynch I figured we'd be best of with a townie who didn't think PV was town.

My assessment perhaps didn't feel fair knowing what you knew. But what we thought it was the only explanation.

[Sathoris]

If we went for PV who we thought scum it would end up 2v1 and Lowell would've been lynched anyway. Or 2v0v0 if PV killed Lowell.

Our only chance was to kill a townie PV wouldn't kill and hope the crosskills the next night work out in our favor. But PV already fingered Lowell. So we could't really got out of that either.

Whether we believed PV was scum, whoever we killed it would be out of our hands. If the soviet was BP we'd lose anyway.

I don't see a point in the game where we really screwed up. Except for lynching you, but I doubt enough people would've gone for it.