Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[EGL]

VOTE: Vote: RedCoyote for being Red... as in Communist.

***Mod: Fixed them tags ***

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What was wrong with my tags?

*** Mod: You opened a vote: tag but closed a bold tag. ***

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My pm from mod stating my role also made it rather clear, as it was a town pm, that there is probably town-aligned players of different nationalities (ie: people of other nationalities who only want peace, which makes sense thematically)

I find it interesting you explicitly state the PM you got was a town PM. It seems like subliminal messaging or something.

Anyway, my role PM didn't explicitly state that there are town aligned players of different nationalities. Town role PMs could be different in that some might explicitly state this and some might not.

I do find you have a point though on PoisonIvy thinking that it's America vs. Soviets due to the town win condition saying to eliminate threats against peace.

I'm going to maintain differing levels of skepticism that either of you have received pro-town roles, with a higher level of skepticism toward PoisinIvy than you. I would, however, like to point out I didn't like your three short posts in response to RedCoyote voting for you. They seemed defensive.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PoisonIvy

FoS: DavidParker

[EGL]

NO MORE ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS

I am completely serious about that, I have no idea how many times I have to reitterate it.

You don't get to dictate these things, you know.

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@GhostWriter, LlamaFluff will get it when he sees it.

I think he makes a good argument about question three though and I do believe that speculation of the setup so early on D1 benefits anti-town roles the most by far. The first two questions though, to get things going, I don't see anything wrong if people want to answer them.

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How do you hate all ice cream??? Is it because you think it's being fluoridated??? I KNOW YOUR ROLE! It's COLONEL JACK RIPPER! Just kidding.

The "You don't get to dictate these things, you know," was a quote of a bunch of Shattered Viewpoint's posts from your Last Will II. I thought you'd remember that as it drew some discussion when it happened.

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Llama, what's your take on the PoisonIvy situation?

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Oh I just saw DavidParker's answer to my post about him and PoisonIvy!

Why were you being defensive so early, after just one vote?

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@DP: My role PM didn't really have that strong implication that there were other nationalities who wanted peace. It was pretty brief. I'm not saying it isn't true, just that there wasn't much there to give a strong implication of it from what I had.

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Llama, what do you think of the people pushing against PoisonIvy? Any opinion on the wagoners?

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For me, PoisonIvy hasn't adequately accounted for the fact she thought the game was Americans vs. Soviets as opposed to a town who wants to eliminate all threats to peace which is in the pro-town win condition.

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I would have thought it was more to do with him not reading the rest of your post but anyway... Does a nonsensical vote during RVS/RQS really merit being defensive unless you're trying to hide something?

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Are you sure there couldn't be an all Soviet mafia? Game Specifics number 4 is listed as a POSSIBLE mafia win condition.

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That question was directed to GhostWriter. Also, it doesn't have to be "Only mafia would think X." The point is "no pro-town would think X." That would account for mafia/third party threats to peace.

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3.) Having played a cold war game on golivewire, im going to guess that a) its USA vs. Soviets/Russians. And there is a miller in our midts. FYI its not me.

@PoisonIvy, I clearly read your post. You did say Americans(USA) vs. Soviets/Russians.

Anyway I'm going to

unvote

for now and

vote: ThaDmiral

. Apologies if the casing is wrong there. I didn't really like his reasoning on the Furc daytalking scum situation. I think it was a stretch since the information was apparently available to everybody per a post by the mod.

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Get better, JVW.

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Vote hopping isn't a scumtell IMO.

Especially early in D1

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Why is ThAd still alive?

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UNVOTE:
[vote: AmRun]

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I messed up the tags.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AmRun

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And Furc, I think you've confused me with someone else. I wasn't buddying up to LlamaFluff.

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Actually, I'd like to see Llama lynched today due to his recent play, if it's not too late to do so.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LlamaFluff

Tag fixed ~ Mod

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@Mod

please fix my unvote tag. Sorry I'm still used to the bolding stuff.

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@AmRun, with Llama trying to halt your wagon the way he did I'm pretty sure you're a scumpair. And as scummy as your predecessor was, I'd rather go to the root of the problem (i.e. Llama for his behavior).

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@Gonnaro, didn't AmRun replace PI? PI wanted to be investigated, said there was a miller in the game, and it wasn't her.

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No. It's more about the means you used.

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And that I think AmRun might be scum. I'm not too interested in tales of ThAd scum these days. You seem to be too insistent that we don't lynch AmRun. It suggests you're somehow paired together. Either as neighbors or scum. And I picked the one I thought most likely.

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I'll go back into my cave now.

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@Gonnano, that doesn't account for PI saying there IS a miller in this game, but that it isn't her.

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Oh I see. "And there is a miller in our midts." was written as a standalone so I thought that's what it was. But it was supposed to go with, "I'm going to guess that A) its USA vs. Soviets/Russians." Is that it?

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EGL: your attempt at making town think you're not trying to slip uunder the radar with very little content has failed. Or at least it should have.

I'm pretty sure I acknowledged that I haven't posted much this game by saying I'd go back to the cave. So how am I trying to do this?

And my posts may be small, and far between, but they're at least little chunks of meat with no fluff. I offered my analysis on LlamaFluff/you. Speaking of, can you two discuss this game together outside of the thread?

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Well I'm just saying, I had read it originally as a statement of fact, "There is a miller in our midst." Then she said it wasn't her (she did seem sure about this) and wanted to be investigated.

[EGL]

Anyway, if you and Llama can't discuss outside the thread and you are town, then you might want to think about why he's so confident that you are town.

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How is a vote fluff?

Also, how do you account then, if you're not scumbuddies or masons and if he's town, that he is so sure you're town to do such a thing?

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@Furc, I gave reasons for voting PI (my second post I believe) that I didn't like her thinking it was USA vs. Soviets and getting the town win con wrong and then later ThAd that I thought his reasoning was bad on one of the votes he made. And if you want to talk about me being on big wagons, the ThAd wagon was smaller than the PI wagon when I switched. And I think I was one of the first couple of votes on it. I'd have to go back to check to be sure.

Also, my sudden reappearance was due to a prod from the moderator. I don't know what you guys want me to do, just replace out? I mean when the mod prods me I need to check in or get replaced. If you're going to complain for me posting when I do post then let me know and I can let someone else play.

I'm not too happy with the way AmRun, Llama, and Furc have been trying to misrepresent me. I've cited reasons for all my votes except the return to the AmRun wagon which I thought would have been obvious considering I had been on the PI wagon before she claimed McArthur then switched it to McArthy who led a witchhunt in the USA for communists. Her defenses of herself and Llama have been WIFOM at best. "Why would scum go out on such a limb?" "Why would scum buddy so hard?" "Why would scum do X?" And it really makes me think there's some sort of pairing of the two.

My top choices are Llama and AmRun. I'm still not liking Llama faking a governor ability. I'd expect it from Battle Mage Town but that's about it.

[EGL]

Yes. It's terrible then. It's a very drastic means to avoid lynching someone. (I said this)

IF she is town then there are two ways for you to know this on D1: you're neighbored or you're scum and know she's not in the scum group. (I said this)

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I happen to believe though that you might be a scum pairing. (I said this)

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Can you explain to me why fake claiming a governor ability is an acceptable thing to do?

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Also can you answer the question do you guys just want me to replace out instead of responding to being prodded or trying to be active? Maybe you don't like my name or my Dalek avatar and you'd prefer someone else?

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I'm not ignoring that. It's part of my reasoning/argument.

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@AmRun

PI got the win con wrong early in the day. That's why I was on the PI wagon earlier. You replaced PI and claimed McArthur then switched to McArthy.

I don't think governors are always masons or scum. I've said this quite clearly I thought: I think people who know the alignment of others on D1 are masons or scum.

How am I questioning the foundation of the governor role?

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I'm questioning how is he sure enough you're town to fake an ability.

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And I'm questioning him faking the ability. If we had a governor couldn't his faking the ability draw the governor out to challenge him? It's reckless play at the best.

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@ Furc: I've found and read your case on me in your ISO. My first time reading it.

The vote on Red Coyote was RVS and I was trying to be clever. Funny enough you question that but love McArthy as town.

I forget which number I was on the PI wagon but I gave a reason: She thought the game setup was Americans vs. Soviets. This reason matches a later post that someone said there's no soviet mafia and I said that number four in the Game Specifics said there could be win con to match that. I thought perhaps PI's speculation on the game setup was a slip that gave us some information.

I was number 2 on the ThAd wagon while the PI wagon was still strong. So... If you want to count that as me being on the top wagons because it took off later... Then I don't know what to tell you. But I did give a reason for it. Whether or not you think it's sufficient is something we can debate. I won't have you saying I don't provide reasons though.

Then yeah I disappeared for a while. You seemed to single me out while I was gone for a policy lynch though instead of going for some of the other inactives. Hypocritical? Definitely!

"Why isn't ThAd dead yet?" I was responding to a prod.

I gave reasons for my llama fluff vote, just not in the same post.

Quoting ShatteredViewpoint is probably more likely to be buddying toward him but he's not in this game. Agreeing with an argument on a question in RQS is agreeing with an argument in RQS. It was a perfect opportunity for the ShatteredViewpoint quote anyway and I couldn't resist.

Anything else I'm missing except me showing up when prodded?

Oh, I also gave reasons for the FoS on DP, who at that point wasn't "probably town" yet. It was page one or two, wasn't it?

You're clearly getting some things wrong anyway.

Also I never criticized ThAd for being a wagon jumper. But if I had, wouldn't that have been a reason for voting him? But you said I didn't give a reason. Hmm.

[EGL]

@Bunnylover, I don't think anyone had questions for Fuzzyman, but I'm not exactly an authority on all that has transpired here.

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Oh I'd been meaning to bring this up. I noticed a few people saying they wanted to lynch me but not voting for me. At least Furc voted for me.

AmRun, Lowell, and anyone else who said they wanted to lynch me, why didn't you put votes on me?

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I thought McArthur was one of the WWII heroes as far as generals go.

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What is IIRC again?

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Thanks.

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@AmRun: I'm processing it.

@ThAd. I actually meant to address that. I thought it would have been obvious with AmRun and Llama as the new top two. Perhaps I should open up a twitter account and link it to this game.

I contributed at the beginning and then yeah I had disappeared for a bit. It's frustrating when people are complaining about you posting and trying to actually get back into the game after you get your second prod. Really frustrating when you look back and see the same people didn't like it you were away either. At that point it's just a kind of what are you supposed to do.

And ThAd, if you're not voting for me and want me lynched then you probably should vote for me instead of waiting around to see if a wagon on me happens like AmRun and LlamaFluff and Lowell. Lowell seems to have completely forgotten about me. AmRun tried to push for a wagon on me without voting me and I think Llama did, too. I'm not entirely sure if he said he wanted an EGL lynch or not and will need to reread. I remember Lowell mentioning it in one of his short posts.

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@LMP: DP did have a poor reaction to one RVS vote on him early in the day. I'll have to read his ISO to see what he's been up to, though. I don't really care much for him saying ThAd is confirmed town.

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52 and 87 in DP's ISO.

52 he explains to Furc it's not about scum-motivated and town-motivated wagons because there could be a scum wagon on scum and a town wagon on town.

87 he votes Bunny because he sees "more pro-town players on the Bunny wagon and more scummy players on the gonnano wagon."

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I know Che Guevara was big on guerrilla warfare and I've seen the shirts. That's about it. What hand did he play in nuclear war?

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What information do we get from a Bunny flip?

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I thought silencers meant that the person could NOT contribute the next day.

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unvote vote: AmRun

One of my top two. I still dislike the McCarthy+Silencer claims. I dislike the early slip from her predecessor in the game setup. And I think there's more to learn from her flip than Bunny's flip.

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@Gonnanno, if he was trying to get rid of communism doesn't that make him as suspect as Che Guevara for flavor? The thing is that I don't think involvement in military conflicts and unpopular foreign policy is adequate to make someone scum in this game, for whatever reason.

[EGL]

@Amrun, at least I'm not calling you Artem. I thought I saw your name spelled with the capital R before. My apologies. I mess up ThAd's casing sometimes, too, I think.

And yeah Gonnano what you just said doesn't make sense. Please explain.

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@Amrun I forgot you had pointed out that she was saying she GUESSES about US vs. Soviets. But still, why would she guess that if her wincon said she won when all threats to peace were gone?

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@Amrun I missed the part where Bunny is 100% for sure scum.

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unvote
Vote: Bunnylover

Hammer.

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I want to make sure we get some kind of flip and info today.

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Your question said if she's 100% scum why vote for you. I missed where it's 100% she's scum. Anyway I've hammered now.

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I think the character/flavor stuff needs to halt for right now. It's a pretty useless debate so far.

[EGL]

Bunnylover - 10 - LlamaFluff, Amrun, RedCoyote, bvoigt, smargaret, Lowell, Nachomamma8, Stephoscope, DavidParker, Furcolow

+ InflatablePie

+ Gon

+ me

13. Unless I missed someone moving off.

[EGL]

That's interesting, unless it just doesn't show in the VC. Someone asked Amrun about that yesterday and Amrun said she didn't know how it would work.

@IP and LMP, can you furnish reasons for voting for DP today? Is it based on his play yesterday?

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@ Amrun stop parroting LMP.

@LMP You just voted without saying anything. I was hoping you'd have, you know, elaborated a bit more on a case about him.

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@Amrun, in my experience things usually change quite a bit day phase to phase. And if he had elaborated his case it could have kept it fresh in everyone's minds.

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I'm pretty sure I've seen Lowell lurk as town before. Doesn't he always lurk?

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On the good side "if one exists"?

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https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ding_Mafia Read at the bottom about gloating.

Holy crap!! Three dead?!

What does "removed from the bunker" mean?

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@ThAd: I haven't voted at all yet because I'm having great difficulty choosing between Furcscum, Amrunscum, and the possibility of DPscum. Although DPscum isn't as strong of a feeling as Furc and Amrun for me.

[EGL]

I think I'm most comfortable voting for Amrun. Reasons from yesterday+bragging about the night results.

VOTE: Amrun

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ThAd's post 1260 quotes me quoting Amrun and linking to the wiki. Scroll up.

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https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ding_Mafia Read at the bottom about gloating.

Holy crap!! Three dead?!

What does "removed from the bunker" mean?

Actually here you go.

[EGL]

If you don't have a PR why did you claim bullet proof?

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@Sath, odd night vig does seem to imply two vig roles, with the other probably being an even night vig. Doesn't that also imply two scum teams though?

Furc asking about game setup with the first post of the game could make sense if he was doc or scum. As doc he'd want to ID power roles to protect them. As scum he'd want to ID power roles to kill them. Yeah? I'm not liking three different role claims (BP, VT, Doc) but there are things he's done that can fit with Doc. I could go either way on Furc. I think DP is a better choice than Furc. Bad reaction in page 1 or 2 to having 1 vote on him in RVS, claims some role information about ThAd being town in the middle of D1, but refuses to give any details. ThAd doesn't know anything about it. DP switches wagons to a moving Bunny wagon with some very questionable reasoning (two of his top suspects were on that wagon and he said the other one was more scum motivated - I think he still hasn't answered about that unless I've missed it.) And then there's the more recent stuff. DP has been in my top two. I'm comfortable with DP/Amrun lynch right now.

unvote vote: DP

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@Scott, an odd night vig is a great indicator that there will be another vig.

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Also some of Furc's play has been consistent with a doctor.

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Checking in. Going out to dinner tonight for my oldest brother's birthday and then I'll do some catchup after that.

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I'd encourage DP votes. I haven't seen any new developments reading back to catch up that make him look good. I disagree with (bvoight's? The guy with the mouse picture) defense of DP. It smells of WIFOM to me.

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Also noticed a couple people buddying to The Fonz. And I think Furc blew the Sathoris PM thing out of proportion as long as it wasn't game related, but we have our instructions from the mod since Sotty made a post about it.

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Furc how can you guarantee the scum have fake claims?

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@Furc: I was scum in Wickedjestr's large mafia game (New York 115) and we didn't have fakeclaims issued to us. Come to think of it, I've never had a fakeclaim given to me the couple times I've been scum here. Does it happen a lot in Theme Park?

[EGL]

unvote

vote:Amrun

Hammer. I believe! I BELIEEEEEEEVE!

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I still like DP votes.

VOTE: DavidParkerLewisCan'tLose

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More DP votes please.

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Fonz, RedCoyote flipped. He was a town vig.

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Would it make sense to say that, regardless of Smarg's alignment, there's probably some sort of scum on the Smarg wagon IFF there are two scum groups?

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Hey gang. Sorry I haven't been around lately. I've had the flu. I still have it but it's starting to get better. I'll catch up soon on what I missed.

[EGL]

It's looking like 8 vs 4 vs 2
unless Vietnamese Soviet mafia, and Soviet mafia are different, which I

HIGHLY

doubt.
I'm guessing the other mafia are capitalist ? Not all soviet area characters are mafia, so I believe we have yet to see the other mafia's name. It is probably American.

THOUGH I'm sure Fonz is allied with the deceased gonnano and is scum, if I am right about that, he is on the 2 person team and we need to get someone on the 4 person team so that the 2 person team will still be able to submit kills... if they can still submit kills. Perhaps they just have a Godfather/Thief combination or something similar revolving flavor that doesn't enable them to kill. I doubt they submitted a no kill, and noone has come out with a doc protect or having lost a night live.

I would love to claim that I had a ploy setup to where I lost a night life last night and was trying to trap someone who misclaimed and counterclaim them, but I don't, sadly.

If there are two mafias then I'm guessing most of the other team would be on the Gonnano wagon, wouldn't they? I'm also curious about that other wagon. I need to look it up to see which one but I remember making mention that I thought there were scum on it. Someone said it's not worth mentioning unless I felt there was a big concentration, which I did feel that way, but neglected to respond in kind.

[EGL]

smargaret - 7 - ThAdmiral, LynchMePls, Furcolow, Sathoris, Beasts of the Sea, Lowell, Stephoscope

This wagon seemed to stall at 7, didn't it? The next vote count had dropped to five. My thinking was that if there were a lot of town in this group of seven then Smarg would have been lynched by both mafia groups if he's town or an opposing mafia group if he's scum.

[EGL]

Except I'm not on either scum team, Furc.

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That's the flaw in your logic.

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@Thad, did we ever find out who Smarg's supposed neighbor is?

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Umm, I think that's because smargaret claimed dude.

Because you're the one who pointed out smarg claimed.