Open 279 - Rusty Guillotine Mafia - Game Over!

[crypto]

Did you know I got banned for calling Adel the Abominable Snowman? That was a hooooooot.

[Fate]

LOL

[Ythill]

@VPB:

I used to be an arguer. I've since found that it doesn't help me find scum. Quite the opposite, actually. There are still places where I will argue with people but this isn't one of them. I didn't state my case against you to debate it with you, I stated it because people were asking me to and I figured they wanted to get a read on me.

I am not "so convinced" that Conc is town, I just think he's somewhat more likely town than scum. And I'm still not explaining why.

@Fate:

Oh, I forgot about that one. But I don't see how that's relevant to your jibe. I found scum 2/3 days that I was alive.

[zoraster]

So I went through all the players today after sleeping on my initial read. One thing that stands out to me is how after a full read I couldn't really remember a thing Shadow Dancer had said. I figured he had been inactive because I barely noticed her presence. So I isoed him.

He has TWENTY-FIVE posts. That's over 10% of all of the posts are his. Admittedly, this COULD just be a problem I'm having. But try and read her. Go on. It'll only take a minute or so.

What the heck is he doing? There's such a thing as helpful setup speculation or even helpful theory discussion or discussion on town strategy. But then there's this. Which is picking and choosing when to interject without actually having to make much in the way of a judgment on any particular player. That's what he's doing. He's made a half-ass effort of tunneling on Anti, but it doesn't feel very sincere to me. Regardless, he's succeeded in being entirely unmemorable, and I think that feels rather intentional.

I stand by my Simenon read, I'm feeling less compelled by my Concission read today but it's worth revisiting. However, I think this is the way the game needs to go:

VOTE: Shadow Dancer

[zoraster]

EBWOP: any hers should obviously be hises

[Fate]

@VPB:

I used to be an arguer. I've since found that it doesn't help me find scum. Quite the opposite, actually. There are still places where I will argue with people but this isn't one of them. I didn't state my case against you to debate it with you, I stated it because people were asking me to and I figured they wanted to get a read on me.

I am not "so convinced" that Conc is town, I just think he's somewhat more likely town than scum. And I'm still not explaining why.

@Fate:

Oh, I forgot about that one. But I don't see how that's relevant to your jibe. I found scum 2/3 days that I was alive.

I'm just saying, if your reads are WRONG or TERRIBAD, its more likely you're town than scum.

Good lord zoraster just voted SD. And he was doing so well too.

[Ythill]

As townie as you seem to me, this stance you're taking is terribly scummy. If I'm town I'm wrong and if I'm right I'm scum? Way to discredit me no matter what I say.

But whatever.

[zoraster]

@VPB:

I used to be an arguer. I've since found that it doesn't help me find scum. Quite the opposite, actually. There are still places where I will argue with people but this isn't one of them. I didn't state my case against you to debate it with you, I stated it because people were asking me to and I figured they wanted to get a read on me.

I am not "so convinced" that Conc is town, I just think he's somewhat more likely town than scum. And I'm still not explaining why.

@Fate:

Oh, I forgot about that one. But I don't see how that's relevant to your jibe. I found scum 2/3 days that I was alive.

I'm just saying, if your reads are WRONG or TERRIBAD, its more likely you're town than scum.

Good lord zoraster just voted SD. And he was doing so well too.

How can you get a town read from SD???? I admit my first reaction when I read the game wasn't "scum scum scum" but it certainly wasn't town.

[Fate]

Lighten up Ythill, it was clearly a joke.

[Fate]

I've played with SD multiple times. I've mislynched him as scum. I've been his scumbuddy.

Etc.

[zoraster]

I've played with SD multiple times. I've mislynched him as scum. I've been his scumbuddy.

Etc.

So what would he do if he were scummy? Play well? Attract attention?

[crypto]

*sniffs RedCoyote*

[Fate]

I've played with SD multiple times. I've mislynched him as scum. I've been his scumbuddy.

Etc.

So what would he do if he were scummy? Play well? Attract attention?

He wouldn't post at all.

[Shadow Dancer]

erm, Fate, you know that the games you are talking about were either marathon or that awkward Lucid Dreamers where I was practically perma-V/LA?

I like Ythill's attitude.

I seriously don't know how some people consider Jarti's last post a town-tell... It explains his previous rather dispensable question to the mod a bit, but that is completely null...

[Fate]

I've played with you in other games, but if you don't want me to defend you just say so.

[Shadow Dancer]

No, we haven't. Nevermind... Just found your meta argument kinda funny...

[Shadow Dancer]

Just finished a reread... Spinning brain just aked me why I'm not in bed, yet... So I'll try 'n keep it short.
I got some bad vibes from Con, Sim and Jarty.
I am also a bit suspicious of Percy and Alma right now...

And after reading Ythill's and LL's strategy arguments again I am still convinced that Ythill's proposed tactic is the best, since most stable, tactic...

I'll elaborate on it tomorrow, good night.

[Percy]

Sweet, luck today, alamaster tomorrow and then it's easy mode imo.

@mod: since town wins with 2 scum dead & one on the guillotine; that means if we lynch 2 scum and have a 3rd scum on guillotine the game will immediately end without us having to play out that next day while the 3rd scum is already gonna die, right?

~``tick tock tick tock lick luck and clean his clock``~

This question to the mod seems like a question for the sake of a question. Whether the mod responded yes or no, it would make no difference to the way we play the game. I also don't understand his reads on Luck or AGM at all.

He explains it a bit here:

fyi, nothing to bank on [but not something to forget] once we lynch 2 scum correctly; any future mislynches become pseudo-reedemed souls;
most extreme example is 2 correct lynches & then we have 3 mislynches; everytime we threw someone on the guillotine & the game didn't end we'd know the person was clear since if they were the final mafia member the game would end & thus we could trust them since we don't have to play out a 3rd scum lynch

This is true. However, I still maintain that this seems much more like setup speculation for the sake of setup speculation, especially after VP Baltar established the "townies think about the setup and try to maximise the town potential" argument. Seriously, why are we thinking about what happens after we lynch two scum successfully when we're yet to lynch a single one?

zoraster's disconnect in who is scum is troubling too willing to forgive in some of his list & too unwilling in other parts I wouldn't expect could possibly be just bad judgement or scum being selective will have to watch the guy

Explain in full, please. zoraster claimed the following reads:
Simenon scum
crypto town
Ythill null
VP Baltar mild scum
Luck null
Concission scum

You appear to think that Luck is more scummy than zoraster, but what other reads do you disagree with? You haven't established your reads on most of the players listed, so...?

in before someone...

Statements like these make ne , simply because I think about things like this a lot more when I'm scum, and this self-consciousness sticks out.

You then go on to say you like Jarti's post. I can't disagree more.

Hmmmmmmmm. Whilst Jarti is leaning scum for me, LuckayLuck is eroding my townread of him.

The other players I wanted to re-read are VPB, Concission, Simenon and Antitown.

VP Baltar

The thing I noticed on my re-read was his read of Antitown. He's fairly clear on his scumread here, and without Antitown posting he declares the wagon/read "too easy" here. In between, Antitown didn't post at all. The only thing that changed was that Ythill said he was town, and Simenon echoing Fate's argument that keeping your RVS vote for too long is a scumtell. Also crypto jumped on the wagon. What in particular made you change your mind, VP?

I'm just trying to find out if AT is actually scum or simply a stubborn ass noob that is clutching to a bad argument out of pride.

This is twice that the VP-sass has been deployed against Antitown. This is the kind of trap I set as scum - try to establish a noob/scum paradigm, if the player comes and participates and demonstrates non-noob then they must be scum, if they don't then they're useless and worth lynching even if they're not scum. This kind of argument really bothers me.
Also,

2) I would like to find out crypto's alignment early so I know if I can trust him or not. Town alliance ftw.

Since this post, you haven't explained/elaborated on your crypto read. Do you trust him or not??

Antitown

Possibly more to come, but I'll wait on VP before saying anything.

His declaration that Fate is scum was met with "this is garbage" from VP, and then there was a simple "no u" response when VP accused him of avoiding questions. I don't know why waiting on VP was important for him to produce content and/or explain his reads.

I still like LL's original point that Antitown was trying to blend in early game, also.

Concission

Well turns out Concission hasn't posted since I posted, and her cognitive dissonance between "voting is a tool not a liability" and "you have a responsibility to vote your scumreads" is still super-weird.

Simenon

I also think that there is scum nibbling on the Antitown wagon, but I don't think it was VBP, and I don't know who it is yet (LL is one of them, the instigator).

Er, you parroted LL when he brought up the blending-in point and joined the wagon. Now you're saying LL is scum *and* implying others attacking Antitown are scum. So what is it about the case on Antitown that makes you now think he's not only town, but that scum are targeting him? Why the 180?

Fate's play this game has been totally forgettable. I don't know if this is a town- or a scumtell yet.

Unvote, Vote: VP Baltar

[Ythill]

One more vote on VPB and I'll switch back.

Also, noting that we need more vote movement in general.

[Antitown]

Apologies for my lack of posting, I will probably be busy for the next few days.

On fate, I am not sure about him anymore. I went from semi-gutscum to town, and now back to null leaning scum. I think that I may be misinterpreting his messages.
My original read on fate had to do with his underwhelming play thus far, as well as something else that I'd rather not state at this point until I know what to make of it.

Re: VP: y u no vote?

Vote: VP

Happy?

Other comments to come when I have time.

[hitogoroshi]

***

Vote Count #7

LuckayLuck:

Jarti, Simenon, crypto, Ythill (L-4)

VP Baltar:

Concission, AlmasterGM, Percy, Antitown (L-4)

Antitown:

LuckayLuck, Fate, Shadow Dancer

Simenon:

RedCoyote,

zoraster

Concission:

VP Baltar

Shadow Dancer:

zoraster

Fate:

Percy

Not voting:

No one.

On guillotine:

No one.

Deadline is on Feburary 27th, 2011, at 11:00 PM central time.

With no new votes until deadline, LuckayLuck will be placed on guillotine.

Vi Style Activity Checker (and a hearty hello to anyone quoting me):
AlmasterGM (1) l Antitown (0) l Concission (1) l crypto (0) l Fate (0) l Jarti (0) l LuckayLuck (0) l Percy (0) l RedCoyote (0) l Shadow Dancer (0) l Simenon (0) l VP Baltar (0) l Ythill (0) l zoraster (0)

***

[crypto]

The VPB wagon fascinates.

Unvote. Vote: RedCoyote.

[Ythill]

One more vote on VPB and I'll switch back.

Re: VP: y u no vote?

Vote: VP

Happy?

Noted.

But I'll keep my word anyway.
UNVOTE: Luck
VOTE: VP Baltar

[Ythill]

Moving Anti back to null and Percy to prob-town as of this post. Neither by a large margin.

[VP Baltar]

lol, mad scum scramble to take me out early. Pile on bros, I'm cool with that because my flip is going to make you have plenty of 'splainin to do.

Unvote, Vote: Ythill

I'll probably have actual responses to Percy in a bit, since he's probably misguided town. These last two votes are from scum though.