Open 279 - Rusty Guillotine Mafia - Game Over!

[Fate]

Who the hell? Oh great. Claim scum and save us the walls.

[RedCoyote]

How wonderful. Because Antitown didn't realize several days ago that he'd never bother to give this game an honest try, right? I'm going to really tear into the next person I see do the whole "I'll post later... I'll post later... I'll post later... eh, can't keep up, replacing out" shit. It seems like the longer I play on MS the more agitated I get with flaking. This isn't even a particularly post heavy game. I guess the posts are a bit longer than average, but still.

Ugh. I echo what Fate says. I really don't want to have to read through an entirely new player and have to hear him respond to the hundred different little issues in this game. Then again, I guess at least Antitown was mostly a blank slate.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Unvote: VP Baltar

I have six town reads.

Middling Town

zoraster
LuckayLuck

Weak Town

RedCoyote
Jarti

Very Weak Town

Ythill
VP Baltar

Which happily leaves seven players I can vote in good spirits. But they are far more difficult to sort. I have typed up three separate votes now, but I keep deleting them when I reread the player to make sure I like my vote. (The order has been: Simenon, Concission, and then Percy, for the record). I am unhappy without my vote on anybody right now, but I need rest; I clearly will need to read the game again before deciding where my vote will go.

Nap time.

[crypto]

Regrettably, I'm going to have to be a hypocritical asshole and request reasoning.

[crypto]

I plan on doing a reread of the last few pages and posting something substantial later today.

And I agree with Fate. Stop walling or I too will post nothing but one- or two-liners all game.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

It figures. Using two "pairings" because my reasoning touches on both players in some respects.

{LuckayLuck, Jarti}

: I played with LuckayLuck years ago (he was Town), and his play here is consistent with his play way back when. His thought processes while reading the game have largely been the same as mine -- I had the same general reactions to Ythill's plan (that confirmed innocents surviving are better than possible tracker results later in the game, though I disagree over the person on the Guillotine "taking charge") and to Jarti's early play (her thought-process about Redeemed Souls at LyLo is definitely a Town thought process), and I have not had any trouble following his logic. I also think LuckayLuck is actively trying to catch scum, as evidenced by his changing lists and rereads.

For those who suggested that Jarti's question is scum-motivated and worrying about endgame (Fate is the one I formally noted, though I recall at least another player mentioning it), I find that an unreasonable objection. Scum who have questions that concern endgame scenarios are going to ask the Mod by PM, not in bold text in the middle of the game-thread. This certainly isn't the strongest Town Tell around, but it's enough for me to think Jarti is Town for now.

{Ythill, VP Balter}

: I originally had Ythill as "weak town," but my read continually faltered as VP Baltar posted and brought out points I was not catching on my first readthrough -- for example, the one that resonated with me was the fact that Ythill had a solid scum candidate and yet voted elsewhere. In the end, though, I was getting the feeling that Ythill and VP Baltar are both probably Town and just stepping on each other's toes over slight philosophy differences, and not alignment differences.

{zoraster}

: I feel like he has been scumhunting; his posts read very genuinely to me so far. Can't really explain it beyond this.

{RedCoyote}

: This one I remember my reasoning less, but I think there were a couple of his wall-posts that I read and was just nodding along with for the most part. Also, I have seen his play as scum before (he was a Cult Leader), and there I latched onto him fairly quickly. I may have to reread that game to make sure there are not parallels, but I have not been stricken by anything yet.

[Concission]

Anti Prod post. Sorry busy weekends extended to busy early weekdays. I'll get my thoughts in soon 'nuff.

[AlmasterGM]

I'm going to try and keep this shorter since people are complaining about the walls; if I skipped something of yours you wanted a response to, let me know.

VP Baltar: I haven't seen any mafia-esque qualities to his play.

I am surprised by the wagon that was formed on him. It was by shady characters,

so I think VP Baltar is a townie. I liked the way he responded under pressure.

The primary proponents of the VPB wagon were Ythill and Percy. I agreed with it; I know there were some others on it as well. here's what you have to say about them:

I think AlmasterGM could be townie.

Percy: Unremarkable. Originally had a minor read of him as town but I've discarded that as I actually mis-read him.

Ythill: I like the way he has explained himself at all junctures and his activeness. I tend to think he's town.

No where do you mention any of us as being "shady;" in fact, you have a town read on two of the three. Please explain this discrepancy.

AGM, in your ‪post 411‬, could you explain your issue with LL, especially in regards to what he had to say about D1? I don't quite understand the disconnect, but it feels like this is an important point you're making.

Sorry, I don't understand the question. I think I've explained why I think LL is scum in multiple times. I also just commented on him above.

Why's your vote still on VPB after all that?

x_x Forgot to move it, actually.

Unvote. Vote: LL

LL's #430 on Jarti is good.

Ythill's #434 on LL is even better.

I don't get this. You spent a good part of your post mentioning me, why you think I'm scummy and that people who think I'm town aren't doing enough to explain those reads....and then you say that you can't really read me. At least have the balls to call me scum if that's the way you want to go.

I am being very up front with my read. If it were lylo between you, me, and any of my town reads, I would be voting for you. However, despite the fact that I have found some things you do scummy, you are also making lots of other posts. There are also a lot of people who are more blatantly scummy than you. So, you're getting put on the backburner.

You have me as a high scumread. Are there reasons other than this?

[AlmasterGM]

Also, with regards to the GLaDOS replacement ... annoying, no offense to her. Totally disagree with the town read on LL and Jarti. Ancient meta seems like a bad reason to ignore otherwise scummy behavior.

[LuckayLuck]

VP Baltar: I haven't seen any mafia-esque qualities to his play.

I am surprised by the wagon that was formed on him. It was by shady characters,

so I think VP Baltar is a townie. I liked the way he responded under pressure.

The primary proponents of the VPB wagon were Ythill and Percy. I agreed with it; I know there were some others on it as well. here's what you have to say about them:

I think AlmasterGM could be townie.

Percy: Unremarkable. Originally had a minor read of him as town but I've discarded that as I actually mis-read him.

Ythill: I like the way he has explained himself at all junctures and his activeness. I tend to think he's town.

No where do you mention any of us as being "shady;" in fact, you have a town read on two of the three. Please explain this discrepancy.

Antitown was on it. Bam! Explained. I'll just quote a past post of mine on that.

Off of the shadiness of the players voting VPBaltar as well as how he acts under pressure, I upgrade my opinion of VPBaltar to "He's a townie."

I'd like to mention Antitown stood quiet when the only alternative to his wagon was me

(it would look mafia-ish for him to "revenge-vote" me and put me as the lead wagon, right? So, instead, he jumps on the VPBaltar wagon when it looks like it can take off)

. By far, I think an Antitown lynch is the best lynch.

I actually skimmed Fate's post a little here and did a little bit of a double take as I took that last sentence out of context. I now realize that I've actually pretty much echoed Fate exactly

(though I'll claim to have come to the conclusion independently)

. That is:

1) Antimage voting to lynch VP is all sorts of shady
2) VP terrible lynch
3) Antimage great lynch

Also, let me remind that

at the time

I said the wagon was shady, I considered AlmasterGM to be my #2 scum suspect. So There was not only #1 (Antitown) but also #2 scum suspects on VPBaltar. I think that's ample reasoning for being surprised by shady characters being on the wagon.

Don't too appreciate you taking my reads out of context in timing (as reads do change). If you researched the 'flow of the game' at that moment when I made the post, it would make complete sense.

[LuckayLuck]

Also, with regards to the GLaDOS replacement ... annoying, no offense to her. Totally disagree with the town read on LL and Jarti. Ancient meta seems like a bad reason to ignore otherwise scummy behavior.

How is saying annoying not ridiculously offensive?

I welcome Glados. She's off to an okay start, but I'm surprised at the different direction she's taken her reads in.
Not only does it stray from the path of what the majority of players think at the moment, but also the selection of characters she has reads on is unexpeted; missing some of our more prolific players.

[VP Baltar]

show me an insincere argument that I didn't later account for.

I never called you insincere really, but I do think you're being kind of a limp noodle when it comes to your scumhunting this game. You've been dancing around the things I've said about Concission for awhile without much force and now you're picking up that you've been called out. I kind of also was getting the vibe of you cheering from the sidelines when people were making their LL and AGM cases. I just don't see a great deal of commitment from you on your reads. I do like that you seem to be getting a little more fire in your belly now that my vote is on you.

Also VPB did you seriously just use the word "scumzors"?

>.> It's this damn pokemon avatar.

I already did. What you quoted was prompted by #323. Now look two posts above yours.

Yeah, you ninja'd me.

The primary proponents of the VPB wagon were Ythill and Percy. I agreed with it; I know there were some others on it as well. here's what you have to say about them:

Well, you're one for two. Ythill I will give is actively pushing my terrible wagon. Concission and you are/were both riding old ass votes that you can't hardly defend, and Percy hasn't made a meaningful post in days due to illness. I find it pretty ludicrous that I'm the leading wagon due to THAT.

You have me as a high scumread. Are there reasons other than this?

The main reason you're on my scumlist is similar as to why I'm voting Simenon...playing the game from the sidelines. As the day has thickened, we've seen some people actually scum hunting and others, such as yourself, just going along with others and not really doing a whole lot while clutching to votes as long as possible. I'm inclined to believe that there is scum in the mess of people that are without true direction.


So far I like GlaDOS' analysis, but I also know that he's a very accomplished player, so I'm still a little wary given Antitown's behavior and poor Fate vote explanation. Probably willing to give GlaDOS some more time in the game though before I make a judgement on alignment.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Also, with regards to the GLaDOS replacement ... annoying, no offense to her. Totally disagree with the town read on LL and Jarti. Ancient meta seems like a bad reason to ignore otherwise scummy behavior.

It's a good thing my ancient meta is not the only reason I think LuckayLuck is Town, then.

~

I just checked back on the game I had with RedCoyote, and I am going to knock him down to "Very Weak Town." In that game (Large "Normal" 92), I caught him on very subtle posts pushing a Cult agenda (such as subtly directing opposing scum teams into killing the claimed Mason group who he could not recruit, and trying to gauge the Town's reaction to a Townie claim while I had correctly deduced that the Cult could only recruit Townies). Obviously those types of tells are inapplicable to this game, so I suppose I was not likely to catch parallels in play to begin with.

[AlmasterGM]

How is saying annoying not ridiculously offensive?

I'm meant that it was annoying we had to get a replacement, not that Glados is annoying.

Well, you're one for two. Ythill I will give is actively pushing my terrible wagon. Concission and you are/were both riding old ass votes that you can't hardly defend, and Percy hasn't made a meaningful post in days due to illness. I find it pretty ludicrous that I'm the leading wagon due to THAT.

You are not my top suspect any more; however, Ythill is still making good points. What do you expect me to do, be the spearhead of every single wagon?

The main reason you're on my scumlist is similar as to why I'm voting Simenon...playing the game from the sidelines. As the day has thickened, we've seen some people actually scum hunting and others, such as yourself, just going along with others and not really doing a whole lot while clutching to votes as long as possible. I'm inclined to believe that there is scum in the mess of people that are without true direction.

I'm not clutching to anything; I unvoted you and voted LL based on reads I garnered during my re-read. Yes, I agreed with some other people's arguments, but I don't think it's fair to say I'm playing from the sidelines when I've given plenty of my own analysis.

[VP Baltar]

You are not my top suspect any more; however, Ythill is still making good points. What do you expect me to do, be the spearhead of every single wagon?

Have you been the spearhead of any thought in this game?

I'm not clutching to anything; I unvoted you and voted LL based on reads I garnered during my re-read.

Up until your unvote, you were clutching. Additionally, that unvote only came after you were prompted.

[Fate]

There goes my D1 lynch fodder *sigh*
UNVOTE:
VOTE: AGM

[AlmasterGM]

For the last time - I didn't get a chance to post for 2-3 days and the thread exploded in the interim. This forced me in to the position of playing catch up, which inevitably means a lot of your reads are going to be echoes. I tried to do as much of my own analysis as I could, but I'm not going to make shit up just to sound original. If you can not get over this, then whatever. There is really nothing more I can say in response at this point.

[hitogoroshi]

***

Vote Count #16

AlmasterGM:

Jarti, Simenon, Shadow Dancer, Fate (L-4)

VP Baltar:

Concission,

AlmasterGM

, Percy,

GLaDOS

, Ythill

GLaDOS:

LuckayLuck,

Fate

, crypto, RedCoyote

Shadow Dancer:

zoraster

Simenon:

VP Baltar

LuckayLuck:

AlmasterGM

Not voting:

GLaDOS

On guillotine:

No one.

Deadline is on Feburary 27th, 2011, at 11:00 PM central time.

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to end the day immediately.

With no new votes until deadline, AlmasterGM will be placed on guillotine.

Vi Style Activity Checker (and a hearty hello to anyone quoting me):
AlmasterGM (0) l Concission (0) l crypto (0) l Fate (0) l GLaDOS (0) l Jarti (1) l LuckayLuck (0) l Percy (1) l RedCoyote (0) l Shadow Dancer (1) l Simenon (1) l VP Baltar (0) l Ythill (1) l zoraster (2)

***

[VP Baltar]

Antitown should be GLaDOS in the last votecount, hito

Ah, I replaced 3/4ths of the "Antitown"'s with "GlaDOS"'s, but missed the most important one. thanks! -hito

[Fate]

For the last time - I didn't get a chance to post for 2-3 days and the thread exploded in the interim. This forced me in to the position of playing catch up, which inevitably means a lot of your reads are going to be echoes. I tried to do as much of my own analysis as I could, but I'm not going to make shit up just to sound original. If you can not get over this, then whatever. There is really nothing more I can say in response at this point.

Guilty conscience lol.

[crypto]

AGM

's first wall had me seriously doubting my scum read on him. Upon reread, I'm not seeing anything that actually distinguishes him as a townie. I still dig the mental image of his head in a hoop.

FOS: AGM.

Percy

continues to be a nonentity.

Jarti

has that smug unfettered snipe-from-the-sidelines air that I find people with too much information often have. He's also playing the "Look at me; I am the epitome of recklessly simpleminded town and I'm totally un-self-conscious of my untrustworthy play style!" card really,

really

hard.

FOS: Jarti.

I feel like

Coyo

puts way more effort into exposing Simenon-scum than actually pushing for Simenon's lynch. Considering he's so fiercely anti-Simenon, I'm surprised he doesn't push harder for Simenon's lynch. Something to mull over.

I've been leaning

Fate

-town but I'm not remotely sold. I think that time and time alone will enable me to produce a reliable read on him. (Night kill bait goes here.)

GlaDOS

looks town as hell, but as a rule I try to be wary of replacements who read and type up catchup analyses before reading their role PM.

Taken at face value,

Balto

's play is ruthlessly pro-town. Do not take this statement to imply anything. I'm as wary as him as everyone else, but only on an intuitive level.

Concission

is lurking hard. It's also worth noting that the sky is blue. For some reason I was waffling on my read on her. But looking back at her text walls, I don't see so much as a semblance of scum hunting, and truly insightful comments are few and far between. Nothing she's said looks like there's much if any honest inquisitiveness to it.

FOS: Concission.

Shadow Dancer

means nothing to me. Some of the things he says rub me as scummy, but at other junctures my gut tells me he's a false lead.

Take away his scummy buddy-buddy style and

LuckayLuck

doesn't look too bad. Some of the things he says, and the timing of some of his observations and stances, indicate a town thought process. He's been forced to spend a lot of energy defending himself. I'd kill to see less of that and more analysis of other players; I think that's the key to deciphering his motives.

Ythill

is town.

Zoraster

's second post—his catchup analysis—looked town. Since then he's done nothing pro-town. He doesn't take stances, doesn't interact with other players, and doesn't produce reads. This brings me back to my point about wariness of replacements who read the game and type up their catchup analyses before opening their role PMs.

FOS: zoraster.

Simenon

—whateva, man.

Four FOSes for three scum. Swell. We should lynch between AGM, Concission, Jarti, and zoraster today.

Unvote. Vote: Concission.

[Fate]

Kill bait? Me? But I'm not even being productive!!!

[Fate]

When did Glados say he read before he read his role PM? Thats akin to cheating and lame as fuck

[VP Baltar]

Concission is lurking hard. It's also worth noting that the sky is blue. For some reason I was waffling on my read on her. But looking back at her text walls, I don't see so much as a semblance of scum hunting, and truly insightful comments are few and far between. Nothing she's said looks like there's much if any honest inquisitiveness to it.

Remember when I was saying all of this stuff pages and pages ago?

[VP Baltar]

in fact,

Unvote, Vote: Concission

So down with this.