OK fellas, I'm doped to the eyeballs! It's WALL TIEM! Wheeeee!
VP Baltar wrote:I never have thought AT hasn't been scummy, because he has and I didn't let my pressure off of him, but people like SD and Simenon chirping around the wagon without doing any of the work did give me pause. Still does.
Double negative hellooooo
But when you say "this wagon is too easy" that is taking the pressure off.
And yeah I know you're a sassmonster, I like a bit of sass too. But it wasn't being sassy that I was going
about, it was the fact that you're sassing Antitown and the way you're doing it.
VP Baltar wrote:Percy wrote:try to establish a noob/scum paradigm, if the player comes and participates and demonstrates non-noob then they must be scum, if they don't then they're useless and worth lynching even if they're not scum. This kind of argument really bothers me.
This is a pretty huge assumption you are making here. When have you ever seen me want to policy lynch anyone as town? I think about 2 seconds of meta would out me as scum if I ever made such a statement. Maybe that's how you play scum, but not me...so perhaps its best to consider what I'm saying as the actual truth.
Hmmmm. You missed my point; I wasn't trying to say you were going for a policy lynch. What I was saying was that this kind of play seems designed to get Antitown lynched. If he did come in and noob all over the place, as you seem to be saying he is, then lynching him will be easier not because you're going to advocate a policy lynch, but because it will seem like less of a loss if he does flip town.
But reading over that paragraph I feel like I'm stretching. Blergh.
VP Baltar wrote:Ythill wrote:My statement was more about Luck's increasing scumminess than the timetable, but I can see how it could be
taken that way.
Soooooo, LL is so scummy that we need to lynch within 72 hours of the game starting. And yet, he flips back to me at the drop of a hat because I'm the leading wagon. Pardon if I find this more than a touch convenient to a scum's interests of 1) ending the day quickly 2) getting VPB out of the game. Now, also pay heed to the fact that LL hasn't even posted since Ythill was 'ZOMG LYNCH NAO'ing.
This is an OK point, as long as you ignore the first sentence. His quote indicates he intended the exact opposite of what you then said.
Concission wrote:@Percy: That's not a contradiction. I'm saying anti should have voted Fate when he was saying Fate is scum either to pressure or to mean a lynch.
When you say "X should vote a certain way", you're saying that people have a liability to vote certain ways, to use their vote in certain circumstances. But you also said that it was a tool, not a liability, to defend yourself for voting VP. It is a flat-out contradiction. Maybe it's not a scumtell, but you can't have this both ways.
Fate wrote:Let's take a look Anti-town's voting record/contribution (keep in mind I'm doing this off pure memory, not his ISO, because his play is that concise):
-Vote Fate for RVS
-Leave it on for mysterious reasons he refuses to explain
-Take it off when my behavior doesn't improve or change at all
-Repeat Percy's stance on me as his own, waffling every which way
-Vote VP at Ythill's request.
Yup.
Not bad, Fate.
Simenon wrote:The number of people pushing it in a short amount of time bothered me, and LL was a better target anyway.
Well you didn't mention that you felt that the wagon was scummy when you left it to vote LL
here, you pointed out a scumtell
here on Antitown and say later that you were trying to defend him somehow, and you don't actually say why the others on the wagon are scum at all - you only identify LL
here without giving reasons, since you seem to believe LL is independently scummy at this point. This is pretty fishy.
LL on Jarti:
LuckayLuck wrote:His explanation for why he asked the question (he didn't even do it in a way that 'explained', he just did it in a matter of fact way...which furthers my belief that he's a townie) was just very good. I don't think a scum would think too much on 'what happens if two scum die and then a townie is put on the guillotine.' Even if they do, I like the way he presented his train of thought. It was done in a townie way.
And that is why I like Jarti's last post and why I have flipped Jarti from 'scum' to 'probably townie' pretty quick.
I've already said that I thought it was a question for the sake of a question, and LL seems to agree with me on that. But LL is trying to argue that it's too strange a question for scum to be asking. I disagree with this read strongly.
Jarti wrote:percury i never established that it was the reads I disagreed with; it was how he came to some reads not feeling matched up to some others mainly his thoughts on luck vs thoughts on sim & con
errrrr...
Jarti wrote:zoraster's disconnect in who is scum is troubling
For the record, this is what zoraster said:
zoraster wrote:Simenon is scum. He points out a case on someone then immediately hedges with a potential meta-defense. His fixation on Ythill posting thoughts about the setup before posting thoughts about the game is bizarre and a half-ass attack....
Luck isn't as scummy as people have made out, I don't think. That's a gut call, but I think people are stretching to make it stick. That's fine in the beginning, but I see more promising avenues.
Concission is combative without providing any real help to the town. I suggest people go back and actually read his "contributions" to the game. It's not just that he's had trouble getting purchase on the game as can happen, but it's that he's trying to seem active by picking some pretty pointless things to quibble over. Admittedly, his posts have come earlier on in the game. I'm looking for improvement from him, but I'm saying scum for now.
So for me that leaves Concission and Simenon as the best lynch candidates. I'd love to hear more from Jarti and to a lesser extent RedC and Almaster.
Now you seem to be inviting Luck onto your wagon, so you don't seem to think he's scummy either. You threw the accusation at zoraster that his scumreads were disconnected, but I don't see how they are or why you think so.
RedCoyote 301 wrote:I happen to agree with his approach to the game (for the most part, that is. Percy shot down his first point, and his third point needed a little clarification, but it was in the right general place).
So the right general place is a case on VP, right?
RedCoyote 301 wrote:I agree with both of these points, but disagree with your VPB case in general. Ythill's point are better, imo. I mean, does Concission just seem more honest to you? I'm having trouble seeing the issue with VPB at that juncture. Maybe he was a touch defensive, but I think you're blowing it out of proportion.
You can't see the case, but like Ythill for making a case against VP?
This is a very waffly, contradictory read to have on someone who's being wagonned. Clarification?
RedCoyote 301 wrote:But you still think AT is scum, right? I guess that's what keeping me from saying that you're right and Percy is just misguided at best or scum at worse.
Say whaaaat? Where does this even come from?
This post by crypto was awesome. In particular,
crypto 317 wrote:AGM's exact words: "Jarti seems to fit the profile of the 'lurkerscum' pretty well." Watch this. "Seems . . . fit . . . profile of . . . pretty well." Don't know about you guys, but to me it smells an awful lot like AGM fears of taking a stance and/or has a vested interest in keeping his options open.
I really like language tells, and this seems like a good 'un.
VP Baltar wrote:Ythill wrote:Scum
Luck (by a lot)
Vote Count wrote:Shadow Dancer: zoraster, Ythill
lol, sure thing.
I also lol'd, and the
follow up was also good.
Jarti wrote:oh someone else finally sees the pikachu for the scum he be VOTE: AlamasterGM
Is dat sum wagonhopping?
This is a good post by Luck, and gives Simenon more scumpoints.
crypto wrote:Zoraster's lastest posts look terrible. An AGM flip would say a lot about him.
Would zoraster-scum dare to waffle on the bus?
Are you saying that Zoraster is bussing AGM or Simenon?
The AGM wagon died down after his big post. He didn't really respond to the argument I bought particularly well of crypto's, but his
point on LL was good.
Ythill wrote:@AGM: For the most part, your logic seems sound. I think your stances are a bit convenient and of course you know I'm rolling my eyes at the fact that it took L-1 pressure to make you analyze the game like this.
Hmmm, I don't know if I'd characterise AGM's positions as "convenient". Which ones are you thinking of?
FTR, Shadow Dancer is scummiest on the AGM wagon. Joining the wagon at L-1 with this:
Shadow Dancer wrote:Alma: Seems to be pretty much active lurking, popping in here and there, dropping some rather innocuous ramarks and disappearing again. I really want to hear more from him, at least some opinion about every player or something like that to start with.
...along with saying other players needed pressure. After realising (ho ho) that it was an L-1 vote, there's no attempt to gauge whether his suspicions were worth the L-1 vote. Then there's this:
Shadow Dancer wrote:Woow... Looks like I missed quite a bit... And I see an Alma post. An its quite a long one :\ On first read I see quite some things that need commenting. But I'm too lazy to write a WOT now. Maybe tomorrow.
Unvote
. for now.
This post is scum city. Voting to pressure and get a read, then unvoting before you even have read the content is terribad. Was it just the length of the post that made you unvote? I have long posts, and you think I'm scum for some reason.
Ythill wrote:I really think the vig should claim and shoot first thing in the morning, and then the RS should claim. At that point, we force the scum to choose between tracker hunting (which allows a bloc core to live and lets the tracker make it bigger if they miss) or killing off the PRs (which means that the tracker will either increase the size of that bloc or get a guilty by the time they are done). Either way, town advantage.
This is the plan. There will be no more discussion.
Zoraster wrote:I don't believe AGM is scum. His content after he came back seem to be fairly town.
Well originally you were all like:
zoraster wrote:Waiting to hear from AGM. Convince me of your towniness, AGM. Or don't. You're not in my top 3 to lynch right now, but I'm perfectly happy to put your head down where the blade's coming.
Then there are some claim shenanigans and you're now saying he's town. zor's play here smells a lot like opportunism.
LuckayLuck wrote:I like the people voting Concission. I think most are townies. I get that Concission has at best been a lurker, and at worst had some scumminess. That's fine. I myself have not found anything particularly townie-ish about Concission.
Concission seems like a "compromise" lynch. It's a lynch everyone can get behind because I don't think anyone can actually defend Concission. That's why I would vote for him, at least...because it's "okay."
I spelt this tactic out quite clearly earlier in the thread, and LL walked right into it. LL gets scumpoints.
wrt Simenon, first there was
Simenon wrote:Unvote Vote Almaster
As I said before, he's flown under the radar. crypto's points are strong
Then,
Simenon wrote:I haven't gotten through AGM's post yet, when I do I'll see if I want to unvote.
Then,
Simenon wrote:Unvote Vote Concission
For my previous reasons and because she hasn't posted in a while and this seems like a fruitful wagon.
Didn't find AGM's reads impressive. His list is a collection of all the leading suspects in the town (except concission, who wasn't a leading suspect then) and all of the recognized townies. Also, he's prone to weird exaggeration; not all of his candidates can be that scummy because there aren't enough scum.
Taking your vote off a wagon you liked
and continue to like
to put it on a lurker? Say what now?
TOWN
crypto
LEANING TOWN
AlmasterGM - Townread from before, some good points, wagon smells very scummy.
Fate
Ythill
NULL
GLaDOS
LuckayLuck - have trouble reading this slot. Need to ISO ASAP.
VP Baltar - His responses to the points presented against him so far has been OK. Still wary.
LEANING SCUM
Concission
zoraster
RedCoyote
SCUM
Jarti
Shadow Dancer
Simenon
Unvote, Vote: Simenon
Not interested in voting Concission at this time.
Hokay. Need to take some more pills and lie down.
