Mini Normal 1133 - Mafia in Venice

[Erratus Apathos]

I am tied for most confirmed in this thread with everyone else who has confirmed.

[Erratus Apathos]

Hello everyone, I have an important announcement to make:

I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town! I'm town!

We should now be able to lynch penpen without anyone questioning my motives.
VOTE: penpen

[Erratus Apathos]

What is this pile of spam?

VOTE: Erratus

So Ythan, you're scum this time, yes?

Notice how Exilon calls Ythan scum but votes me. This makes perfect sense.

No, wait. It makes the exact opposite of that.

UNVOTE: penpen
VOTE: Exilon

[Erratus Apathos]

OMGUS

I'm not voting you because you're voting me, I'm voting you for using non-town logic. So it's not OMGUS.

Excellent use of sarcasm in place of an actual defense though, it's a good way to hide the fact that you don't have one.

[Erratus Apathos]

OMGUS

I'm not voting you because you're voting me, I'm voting you for using non-town logic. So it's not OMGUS.

Excellent use of sarcasm in place of an actual defense though, it's a good way to hide the fact that you don't have one.

Trying to use semantics to build an early game bandwagon?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Erratus Apathos

"Trying to use semantics" no
"build an early game bandwagon" yes

lol

Erratus, you are quite funny. hahaha

Look, ma! No content!

VOTE: penpen

Usually when people don't random vote they give some sort of reason. Not the case here.

Hey look at the scumscum trying to start a bandwagon with false-logic.

We've got two down! Easy-sauce.

Okay, then explain how NE is using false logic to say that penpen's post has no content.

Here are some standard questions I like to ask:
1) What is your time zone? This is good to know in case we have some oversees players and we're waiting for a post from them.
2) What is your mafia experience here and elsewhere? I like to know the experience levels from players, just in case there are any first timers mostly.
3) How often can we expect a post from you? Just for my personal reference, mostly.

1) some kinda American one. not that you could tell cause I'm erratic and sometimes I post at 5 am in the morning and then sometimes I post at 5 in the afternoon so basically don't expect me to post at a certain time
2) I guess a few dozen games? The last time I finished one was over two years ago, so I honestly can't remember.
3) I generally aim for once a day, but again I'm erratic and go over and under that a lot so don't count on it either.

How is EA being pro-town at all? He's trying to build a wagon off of semantics. Not something even a hair more likely for scum to do, but semantics. Last I checked, that was a pretty cute little scum trick.

Quote me arguing semantics then. Because I haven't.

ICE...why the bloody hell is EA town if all he did was copy-paste "I'm town!" a lot of times.

That's not all I did

FoS

for not paying attention

For having the best name? Hmm... yes... that's a very scummy thing to do...

FoS

for overexcited sarcasm

[Erratus Apathos]

Okay, maybe I did exaggerate a little. But honestly, it's way too early in the game to have a town read.

...and besides, I wasn't asking YOU. Why did you answer in ICE's place?

It's never too early to have a town read. I have town reads on ICE and NE.

I didn't answer your question, I commented on it.

p-edit: yeah my answers to ICE's questions are vague. I don't post on a schedule, deal with it.

[Erratus Apathos]

YOU TOLD ICENINJA YOU WOULD POST A COUPLE TIMES A DAY. THIS IS YOUR EIGHTH POST IN TWENTY FOUR HOURS. DID YOU LIE TO COVER YOUR TRACKS FOR LATER SCUM LURKING?

Or did you just not have a good idea of how often you were actually going to post?

[Erratus Apathos]

I like the way NE took initiative.

[Erratus Apathos]

Vote: EA (erratus apathos)

for ultra-quick wagoning

Uh... yeah.

Let's walk through what just happened here. I put the FIRST vote on penpen, and I put the FIRST vote on Exilon. Plaguey here somehow comes to the conclusion that this constitutes "ultra-quick wagoning", while ignoring all the people who are, y'know, ACTUALLY WAGONING. Then he puts the FIFTH vote on me, with no hint of reservation. Does this sound like someone who honestly believes that quick wagoning is scummy?

No. No it doesn't. It sounds like someone who is full of shit.

and spamming FoS's.

Bullshit! Two FoS's is obviously not spamming. Why are you distorting the facts so terribly?

Oh yeah. Because you're scum.

UNVOTE: Exilon
VOTE: theplague42

[Erratus Apathos]

Well I'm doing a lot more than just random voting then going to a OMGUS vote.

No, you're not doing more than that. You're doing less than that.

I like the way NE took initiative.

who cares about initiative when its bullshit.

I know, that's why I'm not town-reading people who took bullshit initiative. NE is not one of those people.

As you can see here that agar brought this to light:

lol

Erratus, you are quite funny. hahaha

Look, ma! No content!

VOTE: penpen

Usually when people don't random vote they give some sort of reason. Not the case here.

Hey look at the scumscum trying to start a bandwagon with false-logic.

We've got two down! Easy-sauce.

Agar's post is completely worthless. Why the hell are you quoting it?

But seriously, the whole "I'm town, I'm town, I'm town... etc. thing was really annoying and rather scummy.

No it's not. Not scummy, I suppose I should clarify. Annoying, IDGAF.

Have you read all the new content yet? Do you have anything to say about it or are you just going to focus on the spam wall?

[Erratus Apathos]

Only scum would yell out "I'm town!" (generally)

That's where you're wrong.

[Erratus Apathos]

Semantics = "It's not OMGUS, because this is why I did it!" You're twisting the definition of a word or phrase (in this case, OMGUS) to your liking.

Horse shit. http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Omgus

shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone

primarily because they voted for you.

I WASN'T VOTING FOR EXILON PRIMARILY BECAUSE HE VOTED FOR ME. THEREFORE IT ISN'T OMGUS. YOU LOSE.

I'm liking the EA wagon, especially his latest OMGUS against TP.

I SWEAR TO GOD, AGAR.

THAT. IS. NOT. FUCKING. OMGUS. EITHER.

NOW QUIT BEING A DUMBASS.

So you're saying my random-voting stage vote needs to be NOT random?

No. wtf, where did you get the idea that I said that? Other people cast blatantly random votes and I didn't attack them.

So you're saying I called Ythan scum based on this QUESTION, BEFORE he even posted:

So Ythan, you're scum this time, yes?

Uh... duh? "So Ythan, you're scum this time" is blatantly calling someone scum. The "yes?" on the end doesn't change that, because you're not asking Ythan if he is scum, you are calling him scum and then asking him for confirmation.

YOU TOLD ICENINJA YOU WOULD POST A COUPLE TIMES A DAY. THIS IS YOUR EIGHTH POST IN TWENTY FOUR HOURS. DID YOU LIE TO COVER YOUR TRACKS FOR LATER SCUM LURKING?

Or did you just not have a good idea of how often you were actually going to post?

Are you serious?

The last sentence is serious, the caps lock was just showing how silly it was to take the answers to ICE's questions as anything more than a vague guideline.

Let's walk through what just happened here. I put the FIRST vote on penpen, and I put the FIRST vote on Exilon. Plaguey here somehow comes to the conclusion that this constitutes "ultra-quick wagoning", while ignoring all the people who are, y'know, ACTUALLY WAGONING. Then he puts the FIFTH vote on me, with no hint of reservation. Does this sound like someone who honestly believes that quick wagoning is scummy?

Why are you getting so worked up for?

Cause I got me a scumbag.

Bullshit! Two FoS's is obviously not spamming. Why are you distorting the facts so terribly?

That's YOUR opinion, not HIS

No, actually these aren't anyone's opinions.

These are facts.

I FoS'd twice. That is a FACT. It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

Sound familiar? I'm not distorting facts. You directly said you wanted to start a bandwagon. Or are you just distorting facts?

I said I wanted to start a bandwagon. Wanted. Did I actually start one? I guess if you count Maemuki's random vote as a wagon, but really, no, I didn't start a wagon. Regardless, the problem with your attack on me isn't that you voted me for wanting to start a wagon, it's that you did so

while ignoring the people who actually were wagoning

.

Generally, I believe that people who react like that are generally scum. It's the same as a guilty person calling a lawyer, while an innocent person shouldn't have to.

Yeah, cause your average innocent person understands the complex legal system perfectly.

Oh wait, no they don't! Your comparison is fucking stupid, bro. What the hell does anything I said have to do with calling a lawyer anyways?

FoS's are ways to put suspicion on someone without actually being committal about it.

Okay then genius, how would a townie attack their top three suspects?

Seriously people. He isn't even attacking me because he thinks either of my FoS's are based on craplogic. He is attacking me

because I used FoS's

. That ain't scumhunting, that's attacking my playstyle. HE IS SCUM.

By voting for one person and putting FoS's on two others, you're spreading suspicion around as much as possible and trying to create town-on-town arguments.

OH LOL

HE JUST ADMITTED MY ARGUMENTS AGAINST FATSO AND MAEMUKI ARE TOWN ON TOWN

LYNCH TIME PLEASE

[Erratus Apathos]

Notice how Exilon calls Ythan scum but votes me. This makes perfect sense.

No, wait. It makes the exact opposite of that.

Was this serious?

Yes. I'll concede it was a fair bit exaggerated, but then I don't like dicking around with the RVS.

Seriously dude, chill out.

no thanks, I prefer this state of mind to my normal apathetic self

HE JUST ADMITTED MY ARGUMENTS AGAINST FATSO AND MAEMUKI ARE TOWN ON TOWN

No, I didn't. I said that you're trying to create town-on-town arguments. I never said that you were a part of those arguments. You're trying to get people to attack each other by making it seem like everyone is suspicious.

And where are these town-on-town arguments I supposedly created? Or even arguments that are

potentially

town-on-town? If you quote even one, I will vote myself. Otherwise, you are full of shit.

No, actually these aren't anyone's opinions. These are facts. I FoS'd twice. That is a FACT. It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

Yes, that is a fact. But whether or not it's spamming is a matter of opinion.

WROOOOOOOOOOOONG.

It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

It is normal for townies to have two FoS's out. That is a FACT. TRY AGAIN

See that? That's quote-spamming. Or the post where I spammed "I'm town!" I'm saying the same exact thing, way more than is necessary, to the point where it can be considered annoying. Those things are spamming. Two FoS's is not spamming. Period. You lose, scum.

I said I wanted to start a bandwagon. Wanted. Did I actually start one? I guess if you count Maemuki's random vote as a wagon, but really, no, I didn't start a wagon. Regardless, the problem with your attack on me isn't that you voted me for wanting to start a wagon, it's that you did so while ignoring the people who actually were wagoning.

It doesn't matter whether you did or not. Intent is everything. The reason I chose you out of the wagoners is that you were trying desperately to get a wagon.

Show where I was "desperate" then. I dare you.

And then while you're at it, show how the hell it's even scummy to wagon early. It isn't, but give it a try anyways.

Yeah, cause your average innocent person understands the complex legal system perfectly.

Oh wait, no they don't! Your comparison is fucking stupid, bro. What the hell does anything I said have to do with calling a lawyer anyways?

It's really not that complex. A guilty person wants to defend themself, an innocent person shouldn't have to. Yes, an innocent person will have to defend themself somewhat, but not in the way you are.

Oh look, here comes the "defending yourself is scummy" horse shit!

THE

PLAGUE

IS

SCUM

This is over the top though. I don't see why town would get so worked up over this.

'cause I know AGar is a smart guy, and he should really be acting smarter than he is

[Erratus Apathos]

I don't like that you specifically cast this as being about the lack of content. That was half of the post. The other half was obvious bad logic.

I'd like a response to this.

What are you expecting? I thought AGar's "false logic" referred to NE saying penpen had no content, he clarified what it was about, I moved on. I don't see anything else to say about it.

[Erratus Apathos]

This is what people mean when they say you're arguing about semantics. Look how tenaciously you are interpreting the "yes" portion of the sentence, even though you've been told the intention behind the sentence several times, which would eliminate the need to do that.

Well, yeah, I am arguing semantics now, because now it's relevant. You asked me how I interpreted your post as you calling Ythan scum, I can't really show that without delving into semantics.

Firstly, as long as the question isn't rethorical (And even if it was, it couldn't be considered anything else than a joke), there is implied doubt, no matter how it is structured. Second, if I'm asking confirmation on the fact he's scum, then, as said, it means there is DOUBT, effectively making it a question.

I wasn't saying you had no doubt Ythan is scum, nor that it wasn't a question. But, it's like, if you call up the grocery store and say "You're open right now, yes?" it suggests you believe they're open, but aren't certain. That's how I interpreted your post.

That aside, the POINT is you're taking something seriously that you shouldn't.

You voted me because you believed I was calling ythan scum, yet voted you. Yet you totally failed to reason there was no possible way for me to call him scum (because there was nothing at the time), which destroys that reasoning.

(And in that case, we're (I'm) left with only one other option that remotely justifies your counter-vote: OMGUS. Do you see now where it comes from? You might say you didn't justify your vote like that, but scum usually mask their reasons, so it's not totally unreasonable to think that way.)

I take everything seriously, even the RVS. That said I see your reasoning for thinking my vote was OMGUS.

See? There you go again. Don't impose yourself like that. "it is normal for townies to have two fso's out" IS, no matter how you put it, an opinion. Why? Look at your adjective: "normal". There is no OBJECTIVE way to define the word normal. Even further, saying something is "normal" comes from your perspective and your perspective only. In your experience, that might happen a lot, but for example, in my case, I rarely see FOS's.

Yeah, if you have some weird-ass definition of "normal" maybe. The FACT is that I often FoS early. The word "normal" is indeed subjective, but it isn't subjective enough that it's reasonable to say that early FoSes aren't "normal", given that fact.

Just because you think it's normal for a townie to have two FoSes out, doesn't make it the de facto normal. I never FoS personally. I think they're a waste of time. You're overreacting to that. Someone thought it was scummy you did it. You can't say "No, that's not a fact. This is a fact!" It's is not a "fact" that it is normal for townies to have two FoSes out. Get the fuck over it.

Did I say it was

the

de facto normal? No, I didn't. It is normal for one person to have two FoSes out, and it is normal for someone else to have zero FoSes out. This is not contradictory.

@Ythan - I wasn't saying that he didn't know what OMGUS was. I was saying he was twisting the definition of it to the literal form

Let me get this straight. I'm "twisting" the definition of OMGUS to

the literal definition of OMGUS

? Jesus, there aren't enough s in the fucking world.

He basically said the minute you give any kind of reasoning, even shit reasoning, it's not OMGUS, ignoring the fact that half the time people put a reason onto an "OMGUS" vote that's weak and illogical just to avoid the accusation of OMGUS.

Yeah, and some people post a lot just to avoid the accusation of lurking, but you still look like a moron if you call them lurkers.

I'm really sorry about this, but I want to be replaced. I'll stay in until I find one myself, but I can't keep playing with someone who uses personal attacks and swearing to try to make his point.

I honestly don't see any personal attacks, but I'm sorry anyways.

It's my personal opinion that FoS's are a scumtell. It's not a fact.

Your opinion is one hundred percent baseless.

The desperation was that you completely OMGUS'ed someone, then claimed that you weren't. This was even pointed out by AGar IIRC. I view it as a scumtell because you wanted to avoid accusations of OMGUS in the RVS. OMGUS isn't even a scumtell in RVS, yet you really seemed to want to avoid being accused of it.

I didn't OMGUS anyone. I've already proven this enough times, I'm done proving it. And I do want to avoid being accused of it, scumtell or not, because it implies that I have no reason for my votes,

and I do have reasons for my votes.

[Erratus Apathos]

I wasn't saying you had no doubt Ythan is scum, nor that it wasn't a question. But, it's like, if you call up the grocery store and say "You're open right now, yes?" it suggests you believe they're open, but aren't certain. That's how I interpreted your post.

If that's how you interpreted my post, which is basically how it was supposed to be interpreted, then there's no rational way your accusation back then works. You pretty much said I was contradicting myself because I had called Ythan scum yet voted you, but from this post, you know that I wasn't certain. This doesn't make much sense.

Of course I knew you weren't certain, it was page one for cryin' out loud. I don't see how that doesn't make sense though. The whole reason I found it weird was 'cause it was like you were sayin' "I accuse Ythan of being scum. Vote: Erratus". I think that's weird regardless of how certain your accusation is.

Yeah, if you have some weird-ass definition of "normal" maybe. The FACT is that I often FoS early. The word "normal" is indeed subjective, but it isn't subjective enough that it's reasonable to say that early FoSes aren't "normal", given that fact.

It is completely different when you say "I often FoS early and like this" and "It is normal for one person to have two fos's out early". the first implies meta and is indeed a fact, the second implies you're talking generally and usually see a great number of people doing as you do. E.g. 60% of your games have people who FoS early and therefore it becomes "normal" for you; in my games 5% do and therefore my idea of normality is different from yours. It's pretty much subjective.

I was gonna argue this but it made me realize something that renders my whole point invalid. As I said to ICE's questions, my last finished game was over two years ago. The meta has probably shifted since then. In fact, come to think of it, I have seen FoS a lot less often then I did in 08.

Ugh. I hate admitting I'm wrong. Can we skip the part where I admit I was wrong please?

Now I need to take another look at theplague's attack on me in this context

Yes, this is obviously OMGUS.
But i fail to see why evryone is getting so worked up by EA. Yes, he is obviously trying to cover up his OMGus vote by BS argumunets, but probably just cos he knows he made a mistake.
So neutral on EA so far.

I'm not covering up my vote with BS. I realize my argument against Exilon wasn't exactly case of the year material, but I did think it was worth questioning and I don't think it was a mistake to do so. Really, if I just wanted to OMGUS, I'd have called it that.

I am confused as to why you think BS arguments are neutral though. Since when do townies do that?

Tell me how anything in this is more than just filler to cover an OMGUS vote.

Because I thought the "A is scum, yes? Vote: B" thing was weird. I would have thought it was weird if he had instead asked me if I was scum and voted Ythan, or if he had asked Maemuki if she was scum and voted RedCoyote, or whatever. The fact that he happened to vote me has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHY I FOUND IT WEIRD.

He defends against the OMGUS accusation like he's being attacked by scum trying to wagon him to his DOOOOOOOOOOOOM and basically says "Nuh-uh, I had a reason, it's not OMGUS!"

WTF, how did I react like I was getting wagoned to my DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM? I pointed out that I did indeed have a reason, tacked on the rolling eyes smiley, and left a "you have no defense" remark to prod Exilon into explaining his point. (I didn't actually think he wouldn't have a defense, by the way. I just felt like Exilon's response wasn't taking me seriously enough, and that that sort of comment might make him do otherwise.) How does any of that suggest I'm reacting like I was DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMed?

[Erratus Apathos]

See Erratus? Look what you did. You're scaring the kids away.

Well, I'm genuinely sorry that I offended him, but I honestly don't see what he took offense to

But yeah, I've taken another look at theplague and I can see why he would make that case as town now so

UNVOTE: Space Pope

@Necessary: In 90 you said this:

Very disappointed that penpen is replaced. His recent posting increased my suspicion. His posting was very active-lurky. My vote isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

then in your next post, 129, you said this:

Not too sure on Budja at the moment. I'll keep an eye on him, but I'm moving on for now. UNVOTE: Budja

What made you change your mind?

@Fatso, Klazam: can you two, like, actually get some opinions?

[Erratus Apathos]

But yeah, I've taken another look at theplague and I can see why he would make that case as town now so

Why the 180, or in your words, what made you change your mind?

My main points against him were 1. the "two FoS's aren't normal thing", which I was wrong about, and 2. targeting me for wagoning while ignoring other wagoners, which I can see his explanation for.

VOTE: Budja because he has not attacked anyone yet.

[Erratus Apathos]

I don't like NE's recent vote. Voting someone for not posting, when they say they will by x and x hasn't came yet. Seems like an opportunistic vote.

And by seems like, I mean is.

Why did you feel the need to change "seems like" to "is"?

[Erratus Apathos]

mozamis isn't acting like cowardly scum, he's acting like clueless town.

(I'm not saying "clueless" to insult him or anything, I say that because I believe he genuinely doesn't have a clue who scum is.)

The attitude he takes in 222 is an excellent example of this. He's fence-sitting, but he's not being a coward about it.

[Erratus Apathos]

I really disagree with lynching mozamis, I have a strong read of plain ol' confused town on him.

Instead we should lynch either pappums rat or Shattered Viewpoint. I am not exaggerating when I say that mozamis has done more scumhunting than every player in those two slots

combined

.

[Erratus Apathos]

Can anyone give me a summary of the rat case? Nothing Budja said stuck out at me.

Of course it didn't, nothing Budja said was meaningful! He never scumhunted, he was content to argue with my attackers all day and do nothing else!

I seriously cannot understand how mozamis's not taking stances is scummy and Budja's isn't. That's completely fucking backwards is what it is. Mozamis attacked me and Mae, then dropped both of those suspicions in response to the wagon on him and openly declared that he had no scumreads, and he got wagoned to L-1 mainly for not attacking anyone. While penpen/Budja/pappums,

none of whom have

ever

attacked anyone

, get overlooked. Am I the only one who sees anything wrong with this?

[Erratus Apathos]

I support massclaim and I also support lynching Klazam.

VOTE: Klazam

[Erratus Apathos]

EA: what's your rationale for wanting to lynch me?

Cause AGar said so.

Who should start off the massclaim? Popcorn style?

I'm willing to start

, if a couple more people are willing to claim.

you forgot you claimed miller didn't you?

[Erratus Apathos]

Looking at your ISO you brought up Budja slot 0 times. Now I would definitely say that is pretty scummy. But since you were inactive a bit in the beginning, then had to defend yourself a bit, but more importantly brought up that I left you off, I would say you are town. By bringing it up, you were risking me voting you since you came off the worst of all the other posts in respect to discussion about/with Budjaslot and risking the town not digressing away from you. Self-preservation would have said, "Let Space Pope vote Mae and draw attention to a townie."

wtf are you doin space pope. klazam is scum who forgot he claimed miller.

in fact i changed my mind on mass claiming. we can do it tomorrow if lynching klazam isn't game over

[Erratus Apathos]

Unless Ythan forgot he claimed miller more times than you did, I'm not even gonna bother.

[Erratus Apathos]

Let's see...

Ythan avoided having a definite stance on the Moz wagon.
You avoided having a definite stance on the Moz wagon, AND you forgot your fakeclaim.

Yep, my vote is in the right place.

[Erratus Apathos]

My undying love to whoever gets this over with and hammers the klazammer.

[Erratus Apathos]

The doc should have protected the vig instead of the cop after massclaim, the vig is a better role even if the godfather is NK-immune.

Oh well. Come from behind victories are always enjoyable, even when you're on the other side.

[Erratus Apathos]

The doc should have protected the vig instead of the cop after massclaim, the vig is a better role even if the godfather is NK-immune.

Oh well. Come from behind victories are always enjoyable, even when you're on the other side.

I thought I should have protected Ythan on night 3. I don't see vigs as all that valuable to town since they kill town players most of the time. How would a vig have been a threat to the mafia then?

They kill suspicious town players, the ones you were going to lynch anyways. It's like having an extra lynch every night.