Mini Normal 1133 - Mafia in Venice

[Klazam]

Because I'm on a iPhone right now. I'll get to a computer tonight. Hence why I said I'll post tonight.

/end

[lewarcher82]

Fatso has requested replacement. I will find someone asap.

[Ythan]

@Ythan - I get where you're coming from. I guess I prefer to be less believing of some things than you.

I'd rather focus on the least believable, is all.

Goddamn flakes.

[Maemuki]

Point taken. Still, you could have warned us earlier.

Agreed Ythan. Agreed oh so very much.

[RedCoyote]

Red, what do you think about my post regarding moz, and the points I made regarding him? Your quotes regarding him in post 186 just seem...wrong...somehow. I'm having a difficult time putting it in to words. You pat him on the back for making a "good point", you thank Exilion for bringing up a point about his contradiction, and give a very gentle endorsement to the moz "wagon", which was only my vote at the point in time.

ICE, some of the stuff you touched on is good, but some of it seems null to me. You're good to show that moz could be distancing with EA, but I don't really think moz is "painting AGar as scummy for no reason". Overall it's about a wash. I didn't feel most of it warranted a separate discussion. Was there a specific point or points you'd like my opinion on?

I think moz has a good point about penpen. I don't remember penpen saying that, and I'm glad he pointed it out.

Once Exilon put moz's weird miller stance into perspective (I had already thought it was odd, but Exilon kind of made it look more scummy than odd), I didn't feel as good about moz.

In regards to the wagon comment, that was me writing too fast and using the wrong word. Should be "a wagon" not "the wagon".

[AGar]

EA, NE, & Ythan: None of you three are voting. Ythan's at least putting effort into this, and prodding. I want to know if forced to vote now who you'd vote for. There's been enough in this game that you shouldn't be avoiding a vote at this point in time.

[Space Pope]

Penpen- Fluff. Though he replaced out early, I'm not holding this too much against the slot.

Budja- Intro post is scummy. Takes the player who is at the forefront of attention, calls his actions that others find scummy, as town tells.

Vote: Budja

[mozamis]

Here and reading up.
Erratus is stirring up reactions. He is guilty of some of the accusations thrown at him (eg. wagonhopping, exaggeration) but at this stage they are more town than scumtells.

vote: plague

not quite with you there. he is commenting on someones comment about the most prominent member of the game. How is that a scum tell? It seems quite a balanced and reasonable thing to do.
But why is he voting plaguepen? That didnt seem logical.

[Necessary Evil]

EA, NE, & Ythan: None of you three are voting. Ythan's at least putting effort into this, and prodding. I want to know if forced to vote now who you'd vote for. There's been enough in this game that you shouldn't be avoiding a vote at this point in time.

You're right. I was focusing too much on penpen and now I'm not sure who to vote for at all. I'll try to have a vote up some time tonight.

Penpen- Fluff. Though he replaced out early, I'm not holding this too much against the slot.

Budja- Intro post is scummy. Takes the player who is at the forefront of attention, calls his actions that others find scummy, as town tells.

Vote: Budja

Please explain your reasoning on penpen. Also, why vote that slot over others? Since you suspect me, what makes Budja a better lynch?

[Exilon]

Well, I'm incredibly tired right now, but felt like I needed to post something. First,
UNVOTE: Erratus

His later posting has made me feel better about him, and therefore I do not feel he deserves my vote. And:

VOTE: Klazam

for lack (I guess) of a better candidate. It's a pressure vote, granted, but hopefully it'll bring something of him.

[Erratus Apathos]

But yeah, I've taken another look at theplague and I can see why he would make that case as town now so

Why the 180, or in your words, what made you change your mind?

My main points against him were 1. the "two FoS's aren't normal thing", which I was wrong about, and 2. targeting me for wagoning while ignoring other wagoners, which I can see his explanation for.

VOTE: Budja because he has not attacked anyone yet.

[Space Pope]

Moz- He is semi defending a prominent player. Budja-scum sees this as an opportunity to 1) distance from a possible lynch if the slot gains support or 2) buddys to a player who is vocal (thus able to guide town away from himself through another player).

NE- Fluff is, well fluff. Since he replaced out I tend to think the player was less dedicated to the game (enforced by it only being the beginning before a player becomes invested), it is semi-reasonable. I voted Budja over you for the fact that I find him scummier. If I can't garner support for Budja, I'll tuck that away for later and pull out my case and vote on you.

EA- While I appreciate the fact you are voting scum, your reasonning is weak and can easily be retracted if need be.

[Necessary Evil]

VOTE: Klazam He's been absent throughout the game so far, and has only showed up after people started talking about him. fatso is about even with Klazam, IMO, but he is getting replaced, so he can wait.

mozamis is another good vote. He's kind of all over the place. I can't get much insight into what he is thinking. But, I don't know, I just can't label him as scum just yet. Still, I wouldn't mind lynching him today.

theplague is a purely opportunistic vote at this point. I was thinking before that he might be town and that hasn't changed. Space Pope looks ok for now, I need to see more from him.

I don't like a Budja vote so much now. His theplague vote was very opportunistic, but, like I said, I can see a townie using his reasoning. I need to see more explanation of his theplague vote before I can know for sure, though.

Is anybody still voting for EA? He's probably town. Move on.

[Klazam]

unvote

All right. I’m rereading. This is what I have to say:

Redcoyote has a really odd confirm post in #3

Agar is correct. That is how you should look at my millerclaim. Just use that as some information, and not a indicator of my scumminess. Townpoints for his very protown thinking.

A really fast wagon built up on EA. I would look for scum among these four (Exilion doesn’t count, he was first) on the wagon. (Agar, Fatso ,Moz, Plague)

I’m not liking Plague’s posts so far. Still in early game.

If I ask you to elaborate that doesn't mean that whatever you say has to be perfect and beyond criticism. Especially when what you say is this.

But, the result of this has been to make him very noticeable and keep everyone on their toes => town tell.

This is the old "acting suspicious is a town tell" argument. And it's not true. And I know of no way to come to this conclusion from a town perspective.

QFT.

Oh, Plague replaced out? OOKAY. Still feels scummy to me.

Moz’s many straight posts was unnecessary. More scummy is the contradictions between posts as pointed out by ICE.

Mae’s vote of me is a very justified vote. I like that vote more than how exilion voted me. It feels as though exilion is just riding the coattails of mae. Its my opinion that “pressure votes” aren’t worth a shit if the person being “pressured” said that he’ll post that night. If I did not post just now, and exilion voted me tomorrow, maybe that vote can be more justified, but as is, NOPE.

NE: Oh boy. My third vote. What makes me a better vote than Moz? Your reasoning was because of my absence. Ok. In the same post, you say that Moz is being scummy . Yeah, you did not directly call Moz scummy, you just say that you wouldn’t mind lynching him, which implies his scumminess, even if you’re not sure. You’re leaving yourself wriggle room here. WHY IS THAT?
/End reread

Ok. Out of all the players, I would say that Moz, NE, or spacepope is scum. Out of these, Moz and SP feel like too easy votes for me to make, so i'll wait on that, but I find NE scummier, due to the reasoning above, so I’ll

vote NEvil

.

[Ythan]

EA, NE, & Ythan: None of you three are voting. Ythan's at least putting effort into this, and prodding. I want to know if forced to vote now who you'd vote for. There's been enough in this game that you shouldn't be avoiding a vote at this point in time.

Let's say Pope. Budja is second atm. Want to reread Klazam though, see how I feel about the growing wagon.

Is anybody still voting for EA? He's probably town. Move on.

He hasn't seemed scummy. I see no reason to think that he is town, though.

[lewarcher82]

Shattered Viewpoint replaces Fatso, effective now.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

Hi.

It's very late at night, and I'm off to bed soon. I'll probably have something to say sometime tomorrow.

[Maemuki]

Mm, so you actually did post. Okay, most of my suspicions on you are cleared. However, I'm still gonna keep my vote for you just to make sure you post more. Your vote on NE seems justified enough...so yeah.

Aside from that, Budja needs to post more (but I see EA beat me to it), and moz needs to answer my question. This time, there's no excuse: Why did you vote for me?

Pope also needs to elaborate more. Besides, outright saying that you're gonna change wagons if they don't work is...fishy at best.

[AGar]

More people need to vote mozamis. F'real.

Posting is awful. Straight up "Hi, this is my fence and I ike it very much."

[lewarcher82]

Votecount 1.6

Fatso -0
Necessary Evil -1 (Klazam)
mozamis -2 (ICEninja, AGar)
Space Pope -2 (RedCoyote, Budja)
Ythan -0
ICEninja -0
RedCoyote -0

Klazam -3 (Maemuki, Exilon, Necessary Evil)

Exilon -0
Budja -2 (Space Pope, Erratus Apathos)
Erratus Apathos -0
Maemuki -1 (mozamis)
AGar -0

Not Voting: Shattered Viewpoint, Ythan

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is March, 18th 2011 at 11:00 AM German Time (GMT+1)

[Space Pope]

I don't like NE's recent vote. Voting someone for not posting, when they say they will by x and x hasn't came yet. Seems like an opportunistic vote.

[Space Pope]

And by seems like, I mean is.

[mozamis]

More people need to vote mozamis. F'real.

Posting is awful. Straight up "Hi, this is my fence and I ike it very much."

Yes i am uncertain. Yes I am sitting on the fence. Anyone that is certain (perhaps you think it is being "confident" ) of someone being scum on day 1 is either a fool, or scum.
Get to grips with this fairly simple concept: people have different styles.

And to answer Maemuki (think thats his name?) I can't remember why I voted you. I think you had OMGUSed someone.

UNVOTE

*PUTS EXTRA PADDED CUSHION ON FENCE, SITS ON IT*

[mozamis]

and urging people to vote for me cos you don't like the way i post?
"Hey, i don't like that guys face, he must be a criminal".

[Klazam]

AGar- could you point out Moz's fencesitting? I dont see it.

Space Pope- Ok, you dont like NE's vote. Why dont you vote NE? What makes Budja a better candiate than NE?

Mae- Fair enough. If i wasnt a badposter, who would you like to vote? Could you signify that with one FOS next post?