Open 279 - Rusty Guillotine Mafia - Game Over!

[VP Baltar]

If SD flips scum, lynch ViVi. If town, AGM/RC.

Agree with this completely.

I feel like the third is such an enigma, but ah well. I want to start steamrolling the scum here and then we will have a better idea where we are at.

[Fate]

The third scum is always an enigma till LyLo. So it goes

[hitogoroshi]

***

Vote Count #48

Fate: AlmasterGM, RedCoyote (L-4)
Vigilante Ventriloquist: VP Baltar
VP Baltar:

Concission

,

Vigilante Ventriloquist

, Jarti
Jarti: LuckayLuck,

Fate

zoraster:

crypto

,

Fate

,

Luckayluck

,

Jarti

,

Concission

RedCoyote:

VP Baltar

,

Fate

crypto:

Fate

Not voting:

zoraster, Shadow Dancer,

Vigilante Ventriloquist

, crypto,

Fate

, Vigilante Ventriloquist, Concission, Fate

On guillotine:

Shadow Dancer

Deadline is on March 28th, 2011, at 5:00 PM central time.

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to end the day immediately.

With no new votes until deadline, Fate will be placed on guillotine.


***

[Shadow Dancer]

Meh. Sorry. V/LA till monday...

[LuckayLuck]

Town apathy is a terrible thing and pretty much every game I've ever played that has gone this way, I've lost. I know I'm not playing at my best either, so I guess I can't bitch too much, but I do feel like I've been trying to point out relevant things all game (such as wagons that repeatedly stall at L-1) and almost no one is listening to me.

I don't consider this game one of town apathy, a lot of players have very strong opinions.
It turns out that a lot of players have very differing strong opinions, hence a difficulty to gain consensus.

@Jarti: I've seen that you've been, in a frustrated way, commenting on how I've been tunneling on you. Help me un-tunnel. Address my main point against you. This is from a while ago, but still has not had sufficient explanation.

• Jarti changes his stance significantly without explanation.
  • Jarti
    attacks me early
    .
    
  • Jarti states that lynching me makes this game
    easy mode
    .
    
  • Jarti
    accuses me of 'buddy-buddy' language.
    
    
  • Jarti
    OFFERS ME DRINKS
    and treats me as a friend.
    
  • To this time, despite repeated ridicule, Jarti has simply ignored any and all comments I, and others, have made about this egregious oversight.

[Fate]

What about Concission? Why is he town out of the Jarti/Conc issue?

[LuckayLuck]

@Jarti: I'm also extremely curious as to how you can take this tone in subsequent posts - one to almost lynch zoraster, and the other after zoraster claimed redeemed soul.

VOTE: zoraster end the day already

Luck does the fact no substantial wagons formed on me mean I must be scum?

Zoraster had no substantial wagons looking through the mod ISO throughout the game either until this point, and looks like he's town. Everyone ignoring a player slot doesn't make the slot scum.

It gets harder not to want to lynch you, when you've been insistent on tunneling on town players; and one of your main ways of allowing yourself to tunnel on them is shaky PoE posts clearing everyone else as townie.

You take a very neutral point of view here, as if a player who had nothing to do zoraster, in your second post - when you were just about to lynch the guy.

[Fate]

DONT YOU IGNORE ME LUCK

[LuckayLuck]

Why I Think Concission is a Townie

Reason 1: Tone

In a nutshell, it's because of tone. She has been a suspect for the majority of the game; she was very heavily pressured on day one. I thought her responses were coming from a genuinely frustrated townie. It is a tone that I feel is difficult to fake.

I'm trying to imagine how funny all of what you've been saying once I flip town.

The method works back and forth. I'm not betting everything on you-scum but I'm pretty sure, sure enough to be able to start work on looking for your buddy.

Crypto needs to stop tunneling. He's been under the false impression that he caught scum and thus playing quite complacently. Please look into people other than me. Brand them my partner if you like, just DO IT.
VP clearly has no intention to find scum.
Fate's comment on Ythill bothers me. I find his tone quite off for town.

Ok guys. Lynch me now or never. I hate how many people are tunneling on me and don't make a decent case. I feel it is a strong distraction for me from scum-hunt and a demotivator for my mood. So it's something we need to deal with right NOW.

Unvote.Vote:zoraster

Reason 2: A Lost Townie

I don't think it's any secret given how pretty much everyone has been changing reads that in this game, it is difficult to have a good bearing on reads. We have to rely more on our own interpretation of events, which is mostly why everybody is going in several different directions.

sigh my reads are changing like wildfire after Jarti and Fate's posts. Though, I still think LL is town, I think I can go with this:

Unvote.Vote:AGM

Concission seems to genuinely have changed reads 'like wildfire' as she explains here.

Being A Lost Townie isn't an insult - hell, I'm a lost townie. I consider most townies in this game to be, at the time being, mostly lost.

Reason 3: Is Shadow Dancer Scum?

Because if Shadow Dancer is, and we lynch Concission now, then we'd lose a pretty serious piece of information in Concission being the L-1 vote.

I'd prefer an SD lynch

Vote:Shadow Dancer

Come on, we need 1 more vote.

[LuckayLuck]

DONT YOU IGNORE ME LUCK

You get a great big heart from me, Fate <3

[LuckayLuck]

Crypto, here's what mine looks like. Thought I'd share.

crypto

AlmasterGM
Concission

zoraster

Fate

Jarti

LuckayLuck

Vigilante Ventriloquist

RedCoyote

VP Baltar

LuckayLuck

AlmasterGM

Concission

crypto

zoraster

Fate

Jarti

Vigilante Ventriloquist

RedCoyote

VP Baltar

Do I lose credibility for this list? Probably, but it's best to come clean, I find.

[LuckayLuck]

I think we should assume Shadow Dancer is scum, and play off of that.

[AlmasterGM]

I think it's extremely safe to assume SD is scum right now.

And as such, I am very pleased with my Fate vote. He tried INSANELY hard to get that wagon switched off me to SD. That, plus everything Glados said before.

Jarti doesn't look great, but I also don't get what's so awful. I actually agree with her about a lot regarding VPB. His ignorance about the setup is disturbing, and I don't like the way he and Fate are functioning as a tag team. It doesn't feel natural - it feels like they are trying to engineer the way the game plays out by giving us "VPB approved lynches," as it were.

The people voting for VPB need to vote for Fate or vice versa. Either they're both scum (likely) or neither is. If one is scum, then the other one is getting hoodwinked HARD by the other.

[RedCoyote]

Been a little busy with Spring Break stuff, but I'll hopefully post later tonight.

[Jarti]

Luck I did explain. Then I pointed out I explained in my last post and referenced the ISO # where I explained. Whether you like my explanation or not is one thing, but currently you are blatantly not reading my posts and probably just skimming them over if you still don't understand. If you're going to make me out as avoiding the situation, at least make an effort to see if I've actually addressed it or not.

The bolded part concerning zoraster is neutral? It's not even concerning him, it's simply using him as a reference point to the point you were trying to make. You implied me never having a large wagon meant I was likely scum, I pointed to a situation where someone who is very likely town at this point only had one significant wagon and it was very recently and he had gone through the whole game with none. Where does it looks as if I'm trying absolve responsibility for being on the wagon?

[RedCoyote]

The PROBLEM IS I actually don't like zoraster's play. But I feel pretty strongly about that scum QT above. THINKING.

I was with you until I read this. This made me cringe a little bit. Yeah, sure, zora hasn't been around, but this completely undercuts everything you just said above it.

---

I have no idea where I'd put my vote right now barring a CC to zoraster.

Wow, what a cop out. Get out of my game, crypto.

---

Scumbuddy theory be damned, his interaction with that AGM wagon was STILL WEIRD AS FUCK.

I don't know, Fate. I've been holding onto two pieces of information for dear life here.

1) Someone killed Ythill specifically. Someone on the scum team is a very capable player, much better (as town, at least), than I am. This immediately points to you, and this immediately points to VPB. I know both of you are good bets at gauging something like that.

2) Your play is erratic (and not in the normal Fate sense). It's not as simple as the lack of CAPS. Anyone worth anything can use CAPS as scum. You've been a rollercoaster of activity, and it's proportional to Antihero replacing out. There's just this whole scheme that looks like it is beautifully playing out for you.

---

wait, the lynched can actually vote?

meh.

anyhow...zoraster point stands

---

This is VPB's 2nd time making a blatant attempt to act like he doesn't know the set-up. First his misinterpretation of how the vig shot would be done. And now his seemingly being unaware that the on-guillotine can post, despite simenon's posting on d2 and sd saying he'd post toDay. I don't buy it, looks like a gimmick to gain town cred by seeming unaware of the surroundings. Calling out ViVi for being 'scums who can't read the thread' when he himself seemingly never saw simenon's post-guillotine posts.

Wow, when Jarti actually gives the game his attention we get good stuff out of him like this.

However what I don't get is all the BS you gave us earlier today. It's like, I don't know if you are coming or going. Are you faking it now or were you faking it earlier? Because, it's like this, you can't go, in one post, RC is scum, then the next post, RC, want to join me in a Fate lynch?, then the next post, RC is scum, then the next post, VPB is scum. That doesn't work. What is your game, Jarti?

---

This game is seriously making me pissed because everybody and their brother is so apathetic about the game state.

Town apathy is a terrible thing and pretty much every game I've ever played that has gone this way, I've lost. I know I'm not playing at my best either, so I guess I can't bitch too much, but I do feel like I've been trying to point out relevant things all game (such as wagons that repeatedly stall at L-1) and almost no one is listening to me.

Please. If ever I've heard a scripted post. Save it for The Road to Rome.

---

VP is as town as it gets, if here we SCUMPLOTTING VP he'd have all this shit figured out.

You're delusional. The only obvious townies (aside from zora) here are VV and Concission.

---

I don't consider this game one of town apathy, a lot of players have very strong opinions.
It turns out that a lot of players have very differing strong opinions, hence a difficulty to gain consensus.

He's trying to play the town. "All this town apathy is going to lose it for us! I know I'm not the best, but gee whiz, guys!"

I don't know, LL, how you could possibly see me, Fate, and VPB as all part of the same town.

Unvote

;

vote: VP Baltar

[VP Baltar]

I don't even understand how the content of that post led to a vote actually RC. I'd like your bullet points of why I'm scum please.

I find it pretty amusing the scummiest folks want to try to pile on over forgetting the guilliotened person could vote...as if that makes any sense from a scum motivation stand point. If your case is more than that RC, I'd love to hear it.

[LuckayLuck]

ISO 12

Which post is this?

[crypto]

Luck, I've tried several times to find a game you were in via the general forum link you provided us about your meta, and I can't find any. I need you to link me a game you played as town and a game you played as scum (offsite) pronto tonto.

[crypto]

@VP Baltar

, if you could I need you to recall an instance where you took a stance on the issue of night kill analysis as a point of Mafia theory.

@Everyone.

Let's assume for argument's sake (and because we're fucked otherwise) that SD was scum. I want to know what people think of Concission's attitude toward him, especially as his lynch drew closer. I have some things I'd like to point out, but I want to see what other people think before I provide any potential point of easy agreement. I want to hear from AGM, Luck, VV, and RC first. Everyone else, please STFU until

all

of those people have answered.

In my search for asdjkfhagjklfdsgh I've been looking at Ythill's contributions. Check this out.

[LuckayLuck]

Luck, I've tried several times to find a game you were in via the general forum link you provided us about your meta, and I can't find any. I need you to link me a game you played as town and a game you played as scum (offsite) pronto tonto.

Townie (2/21 - 2p2 forums)

In all honesty, I have no relevant game I've played as a scum as of late.

[Fate]

If SD is scum, the VV is powerlynch worthy scum with him, Concission is town, along with all my other townspects. Last scum is TBD.

BUT SD is more likely town IMO, and RC's FURTHER BULLSHIT case pushing (HEY LUCKY. YOU CANT CATCH RC-SCUM WITH TONE. YOU CATCH HIM BY HIS AGENDA), shows how clearly a RC/Jarti/AGM scumteam REALLY IS.

Yes LL's fancy wall convinced me moreso of Conc's alignment, plus the fact tha Jarti's last post said a whole lot of FUCKIN NOTHING.

Vote: RedCoyote

^BOUT TME FOR ONE OF THESE AGAIN. EH VPB? WATCH HIM CALL YOUR VOTE "OMGUS" TOO.

VP IS AS TOWN AS IT FUCKIN GETS.

[RedCoyote]

The writing is on the wall, VPB.

You spent the better the better part of D1 tunneling Concission (although, granted, at the time this was more of a problem I had with Concission, but I have since done almost a 180 on what I think of you and him).

You tried to buy creditability at the last minute during the Sim lynch.

Ythill was killed N1 (I don't care how many times people try and dissuade me from this argument; I'm firmly convinced there was more to this kill than sheer dumb luck).

Your relationship with Fate has been unorthodox and untownielike (especially non-VPB townielike if you want to get meta with this argument, but he's the only player I have yet to see you be critical of to any degree despite consistently labeling him as "neutral" and "meh" up until your recent, forced love affair antics).

Your unabashed, ever-present fencesitting in arguably the most critical decision we've had in this game so far.

You essentially forced the RS to claim today with your casual threats (of course this isn't entirely your fault as a lot of people we're on that wagon, including, likely, the scum Rolecop. That doesn't mean you weren't the most fundamental piece however with your vague threat of an impending hammer).

As Jarti just brought up and I now confirmed, this is your second time falling victim to fundamental misunderstandings of a fairly straightforward setup. The first time could easily be written off as an honest mistake, but this second attempt at casting suspicion on VV is completely awkward and wholly convoluted. Even if SD couldn't vote, I still don't understand the implication at all.

Your recent, fake "let's get it together, town!" pep post.

Either you or Fate need to go. It's no longer acceptable to leave you both around. In a perfect world, I'd want you gone now, I'd want SD to flip scum like I predict he will, and I'd want Fate gone the next day. It may not be all three of you, but if it's not two I would be extremely surprised.

---

I have some things I'd like to point out, but I want to see what other people think before I provide any potential point of easy agreement. I want to hear from AGM, Luck, VV, and RC first.

With the criteria you laid out, I'd say it makes Concission look pretty good. I just looked at his iso though (I don't know if that's cheating or not).

[VP Baltar]

@Fate - I kind of want to, but with SD's continued thread dodging I'm starting to think he was scum. I don't know what RC's history of bussing is, but unless he has a strong one of it he's probably town if SD is town. That being said, I find his entire case of how I am scum masterminding this game entirely laughable and horribly forced in pretty much every point he's making, so....


@RC - Why is it that "either fate or

need to go"? False dilemma much? What happens if one of us flips town? You think the other needs to go then? Fate and I are both obvious fucking town for the realz. Fate has been his usual town self ever since late D1 when he got a kick in the pants and I've been the most consistently present player in this game. I find it quite silly you don't have a town read on at least one of us, if not both.

@crypto - I don't recall a game off of the top of my head really, but my general stance is that its ok to talk about but not always useful. There are sometimes when it is worthwhile to talk about and may reveal likely motivations for the scum. I don't think it's a great reason alone to lynch someone over though. Even if you can see a likely motivation for NKs, there is still the possibility things occur by coincidence so you have to check yourself carefully.

[Fate]

If SD is scum* you think RC is town.

I think he'd bus. I mean I can understand him being wary of you buddying me..but calling it scumONScum and wanting us mkslynched back to BACK?

Scum motivations to hell and back.

On phone so I can't quote...he just said "scum ROLECOP was on that wagon"

He's been dropping scumqt info so cheekily for FAR TOOLOG I'm not moving my vote. Seriously.

If scum avoided the zor wagon cuz they already rolecopped him... I WANT RC HUNG