The Mafiascum World of Warcraft Thread

[xRECKONERx]

If we start doing more raids we can use EPGP but I don't see us getting to that point.

[Flameaxe]

Yeah, I've only found DKP/EPGP useful in 25 mans (or way back when, 40 mans). 10 people is generally fine to deal with using rolls and civility. Hell, if anyone gets all butthurt about loot in raids, they need to rethink the fact that they are playing a game anyway.

[AGar]

Fuck yeah I rock at recruitment. Lol.

[InflatablePie]

I recruited one person.

I'm useful now. Maybe.

[tanstalas]

Working sucks. Haven't been on in like 4 days

Oh, and if any of you need any LW stuff let me know, not sure if you guys have a LW or not, will cut ya a deal on chaos orb stuff

[dramonic]

i THINK sis is leatherworker...

[InflatablePie]

Oh hey:

- Frostbolt damage has been increased by 10%.
- Fingers of Frost bonus damage applied to Ice Lance has been increased to 25%, up from 15%.

I picked a good time to roll a Frost Mage.

[crywolf20084]

I'm so close to hitting 80 (as i still dont own cata) on my main on skullcrusher so i'm completely ignoring LB right now. @_@

[Flameaxe]

i THINK sis is leatherworker...

I am, but I'm probably going to switch it to a gathering profession to boost my income for a bit. I've realized that the flask market on this server is shit, and need another raw mats source.

After that I'll switch it back to tailoring over leatherworking for moonkin/resto.

[InflatablePie]

Oh look, the guild tabard finally matches the rest of my gear.

[xRECKONERx]

I should really change that tabard color -_-

[xRECKONERx]

Okay, so Brock has started dicking around in Dreamweaver & Fireworks to try and put a site together, but if you check the MotD, he could really use some more help with it.

By the way, awesome job on the new recruits guys. Now make sure we're all actually active and online when they are so they feel like we're not an abandoned ghost town.

In personal gratification news, I'm halfway to 84 on my Elemental Shaman, and I'm already out-DPSing my geared-for-raids Shadow Priest. lulz

[AGar]

Woop woop 20. Lol.

If he wants some help, shoot him my e-mail. It's the same as my RealID, which I think I posted in here somewhere.

Apparently I never did. It's NW.Thrash.Unreal@gmail.com

[crywolf20084]

i'll make an appearence on LB later today/night. and maybe a bit this weekend.

[AGar]

I'll be on later today, probably from 3 EST till 10ish with about an hour and a half break somewhere in there for dinner.

[xRECKONERx]

Alright, for the time being, I've made Brock a special rank: co-founder. He was one of the original four people to found the guild, and the other two have left, so he definitely deserves some recognition for that. We're going to sit down tonight and attempt to figure out some kind of strict system for ranks and then I'll propose it to you guys here.

[JDodge]

y'know, i was kind of under the impression when we as an MS group founded that this would be a democratic sort of order until we got to the recruitment process and not a reck-and-everyone-he's-fuckingocracy

perhaps i'm just jaded and cynical from my cybernations days wherein i helped establish a completely new alliance only for us to be merged into a different one by the group-of-friends founders who made sure they were the only ones who benefited from the merge, but it seems as if a small group of people have got it in their head that they're "founders" and can do what they want with no recourse (with the exception of dram, who is still one of the nicest people i've ever met on the intarwebs)

to be more specific, here is an exact list of my points against everything:

1. a complete and utter lack of communication, as explained by the following anecdote:

as was said earlier in the thread, i began research and work into a website for the guild roughly a week or so ago; not wanting to say anything on it until i was absolutely sure on our best course of action would be (which i determined would be to hop onto a pre-made site like GuildPortal at the start and either create a heavily personalized site on their framework depending on how customizable it is or create our own thing and launch it only once it's complete). i woke up this morning to see plastered everywhere "Brock is working on a website for us! let us know if you can help!" or something similar. apparently this was due to the fact that i didn't check in with reck and he "didn't know i was actually working on it" or something similar, and due to the fact that even though he told brock i was working on one, brock seemingly completely ignored that in favor of just deciding to do his own anyways

2. power to the (certain) people!

i've noticed a trend wherein the only people who hold any power within the guild above and beyond everyone else are:

Reck
Dram
Brock

what do these three have in common? i shouldn't have to spell it out to you

when i brought up that Brock had a competitive advantage if he was creating a site in parallel with me because he had MoTD rights, i was told that we all did in a rather backpedally manner:

(2:14:13 PM) wtfxwill: I upped everyone from MS.net + Brock to new ranks after our discussion in the WoW thread.
(2:14:28 PM) wtfxwill: But I don't remember if I did you because you weren't online.
(2:14:45 PM) wtfxwill: Actually, I probably didn't BECAUSE you weren't online and I only did online members >_>

right, because we were content to allow a sort of oligarchy to form until i questioned it

i came on after i went to work to see that brock has been given a special rank, which see above for the three who have powers over the rest of us

3. the chasing away of and then acting like a prick towards former members

see: tans drama earlier in thread; i still feel that the way he was treated after he was gone

after all that he did for us

was disgusting in every way, shape, and form

4. power-hunger

it seems quite obvious to me that reck has taken his position as guild leader to mean he's in charge, when i was pretty sure that when we founded as a group our idea was to sort of democratically do things, with reck agreed upon as the functionary leader

most recently, it seems as if he's unilaterally decided to give brock special powers as co-founder, and i disagree with that because lazercannonpewpew or whatever it was is dead. it died when we refounded and changed our name to modus operandi. we are all co-founders, we all poured ourselves into the guild, we all agreed on a direction to take, we all agreed on everything.

we are a people united, not a people dictated.

this is not the decision-making process i agreed on, this is

those are the main four reasons why my next log-on will be either rolling a new character or typing /gquit. i'll be back when you guys pull your heads out of your asses and either toss reck out on his or take him down the peg he so desperately needs to go.

- written by jd, agreed upon by cay

[crywolf20084]

obligatory post saying i actually agree with this.

[xRECKONERx]

JD, I tried to explain this earlier.

#1) The lack of communication wasn't on my part. It was on yours. You said you volunteered to make a website; I said okay; Then I heard nothing else. Brock, who doesn't even read this forum, informed me last night, "Oh, by the way, I downloaded Dreamweaver so I could work on a guild website," and I told him, "Oh, well I know JD mentioned something about making a website, you should check with him," and his response was to send out a message to the entire guild letting them know that we should all start collaborating on a website. I literally

do not care

who is working on a website and who isn't, but JD, you had no communication with us about the fact that you were working on one past "I'll do it!", and Brock wasn't "completely ignoring" your work on a site by working on one, he was taking initiative… and he clearly did your efforts, otherwise he wouldn't have changed the message of the day.

#2) I have power because I'm the Guild Master. That's it. Otherwise, I haven't done a damn thing besides change ranks around. You yourself even nominated dramonic to be in charge of the Guild Bank… which, besides me being the GM, is still the only real leader/power role in the guild. Brock sat me down and talked to me and expressed his concerns over the fact that he & I started this guild (from the original purchase of the charter and everything), and he gets very little recognition for that. There was never an oligarchy - if it was just "Reck and all his friends lalalalala" then my friends Kole, Lauralee, and Stacey would have power in the guild. They don't. I've asked multiple times for Council position suggestions and everyone has pretty much ignored me. Nobody's really stepped up with any ideas, or any eager volunteers for the Council, so I cannot be blamed for there not being enough officers.

Dram has power because everyone agreed to it, I have power because hurr-durr I am the Guild Master, and Brock, who didn't even HAVE power until TODAY, is being made a co-GM because he was there from the start and does deserve some form of power/leadership in the guild itself.

#3) Don't say "members". It's "member". It's tans. Nobody chased him away. He left because we weren't raiding enough. And by the way, it isn't just me that was acting like that towards him. A majority of the members were saying things in Guild Chat, too, and generally disliked the way and the reasons he left the guild.

#4) I fail to see how I am "power-hungry". I mean, seriously, this is like a ten-person guild on a MMORPG. What kind of power do I wield, exactly? I can… edit nametags on the guild bank… and change ranks. You are crying that I'm power hungry because I made Brock a co-GM… well, that's literally the ONLY decision I've made non-democratically. Yes, we're all founders. Unfortunately, there can't be ten GMs. That's why I made a proposal (one would say… democratically) and presented my plan for tiers in the guild, what each role should do, and so on and so forth. Dram was fine with it, AGar was fine with it, you responded to the post and didn't raise any issues, Kairyuu was fine with it, and BBM was fine with it.

I then came to you guys asking people what kind of focus they wanted. Your contribution so far has been to ask questions (to me, generally) about what kind of guild we want, what our focus is, what our requirements are… after I've brought these things to the rest of you to decide on. I've done nothing in a non-democratic fashion other than promoting Brock, and that was for no reason other than the fact that he helped pitch in to get the guild started, buy our first bank tab, get things rolling. We didn't consult him at all on changing the guild name, or setting up the ranks, or anything. He hasn't been a part of the democratic process, and him being set up as a co-GM is a show of good faith that despite the fact he can't communicate with us forum-wise, he's still important to the guild as a whole.

I wish you would reconsider your stance, here, because I do not see how I'm this power-hungry, dictator that has seized control of Modus Operandi. If you want, I'll even hand control over to a neutral party who everyone can agree on, like dramonic. I do not care about being a Guild Master, I just want to play the fucking game and have a good group of people to do it with.

[xRECKONERx]

And I'm serious about the last bit. I'm so fucking tired of drama, be it through JD whining about something here, or me being accused of being power hungry, or tans complaining that I jokingly changed his public note/officer note, or Brock getting pissed off at me for not giving him proper power.

I'll take a Council position and let someone else have complete control if it means everyone will stop bitching and start playing the game again.

[JDodge]

JD, I tried to explain this earlier.

#1) The lack of communication wasn't on my part. It was on yours. You said you volunteered to make a website; I said okay; Then I heard nothing else. Brock, who doesn't even read this forum, informed me last night, "Oh, by the way, I downloaded Dreamweaver so I could work on a guild website," and I told him, "Oh, well I know JD mentioned something about making a website, you should check with him," and his response was to send out a message to the entire guild letting them know that we should all start collaborating on a website. I literally

do not care

who is working on a website and who isn't, but JD, you had no communication with us about the fact that you were working on one past "I'll do it!", and Brock wasn't "completely ignoring" your work on a site by working on one, he was taking initiative… and he clearly did your efforts, otherwise he wouldn't have changed the message of the day.

Right, his response was not to attempt to get into contact with me, but seize creative control over the entire project.

This is the issue here

. I understand that you don't care, but this is like if we were shooting a movie or something and one day you decided to replace the producer without telling him, or making any effort whatsoever to talk to him. It is not my fault that you did not check with me. It is not my fault that you assumed that I wasn't doing anything when I was just making sure all the ducks are lined up before anything happens, like I have been this entire time during our founding process (we needed to decide on a guild structure before we started recruiting, not afterward; our history so far is completely lined with overly-rushed and rash decisions made by the few and carried out apathetically by all).

What you call taking initiative I call seizing control completely and icing me out as nothing more than a mere collaborator.

#2) I have power because I'm the Guild Master. That's it. Otherwise, I haven't done a damn thing besides change ranks around. You yourself even nominated dramonic to be in charge of the Guild Bank… which, besides me being the GM, is still the only real leader/power role in the guild. Brock sat me down and talked to me and expressed his concerns over the fact that he & I started this guild (from the original purchase of the charter and everything), and he gets very little recognition for that. There was never an oligarchy - if it was just "Reck and all his friends lalalalala" then my friends Kole, Lauralee, and Stacey would have power in the guild. They don't. I've asked multiple times for Council position suggestions and everyone has pretty much ignored me. Nobody's really stepped up with any ideas, or any eager volunteers for the Council, so I cannot be blamed for there not being enough officers.

Dram has power because everyone agreed to it, I have power because hurr-durr I am the Guild Master, and Brock, who didn't even HAVE power until TODAY, is being made a co-GM because he was there from the start and does deserve some form of power/leadership in the guild itself.

This is a new start, and we are all here for it. He deserves nothing of the such until he has proven he deserves it, same as anyone else. Where was my shiny title and rank and stuff when I was the one who started the real 100% push for an MS guild when I first started playing? Where's my stuff for putting in for a bank tab as well? Where's BBM's special stuff for moving over his main at his own expense in order to bolster our ranks? Where was Tans' special stuff for paying for a month for Cay, buying me WoTLK, depositing all that stuff in our guild bank, buying a tab of his own, and allowing us to use his Vent server? What about Kai? What about Pie? What about Cay even though she didn't get a chance to do much of anything with us?

#3) Don't say "members". It's "member". It's tans. Nobody chased him away. He left because we weren't raiding enough. And by the way, it isn't just me that was acting like that towards him. A majority of the members were saying things in Guild Chat, too, and generally disliked the way and the reasons he left the guild.

well it's members now, three of them

#4) I fail to see how I am "power-hungry". I mean, seriously, this is like a ten-person guild on a MMORPG. What kind of power do I wield, exactly? I can… edit nametags on the guild bank… and change ranks. You are crying that I'm power hungry because I made Brock a co-GM… well, that's literally the ONLY decision I've made non-democratically. Yes, we're all founders. Unfortunately, there can't be ten GMs. That's why I made a proposal (one would say… democratically) and presented my plan for tiers in the guild, what each role should do, and so on and so forth. Dram was fine with it, AGar was fine with it, you responded to the post and didn't raise any issues, Kairyuu was fine with it, and BBM was fine with it.

You are not a GM as an elected official, nor are you a GM as a leader. You are a GM as a functionary. I am fine with the tiers and the like, but don't contrarily change things around later on when you decide you want to give someone else another perk for no reason.

I then came to you guys asking people what kind of focus they wanted. Your contribution so far has been to ask questions (to me, generally) about what kind of guild we want, what our focus is, what our requirements are… after I've brought these things to the rest of you to decide on. I've done nothing in a non-democratic fashion other than promoting Brock, and that was for no reason other than the fact that he helped pitch in to get the guild started, buy our first bank tab, get things rolling. We didn't consult him at all on changing the guild name, or setting up the ranks, or anything. He hasn't been a part of the democratic process, and him being set up as a co-GM is a show of good faith that despite the fact he can't communicate with us forum-wise, he's still important to the guild as a whole.

Really? Cause I kind of assumed the people who had regular contact with him such as yourself were informing him of what was going on and getting his opinion. Is this going to be a lack of communication that's my fault again?

I wish you would reconsider your stance, here, because I do not see how I'm this power-hungry, dictator that has seized control of Modus Operandi. If you want, I'll even hand control over to a neutral party who everyone can agree on, like dramonic. I do not care about being a Guild Master, I just want to play the fucking game and have a good group of people to do it with.

I want my complaints addressed in a satisfactory manner, I want a structure standardized and decided upon, I want people to stop putting the cart before the horse, I want people to start communicating with each other through whatever channels are necessary to get the job done.

These are my demands, and that is what it will take to get me back.

[AGar]

JDodge, just out of curiosity, what structure would you propose? Seriously, Reck has tried to propose a structure, and I believe I was the only one to give input on that of any kind.

What's the big deal about Brock being a co-GM?
What's the big deal that the website changed hands? It's not a spectacular website, it's a pre-made template that churns out a bunch of APIs from blizzard. And honestly, we needed

something

going soon, considering not everyone in the guild is a MS user.

Seriously, I don't get what the big deal is.

[JDodge]

JDodge, just out of curiosity, what structure would you propose? Seriously, Reck has tried to propose a structure, and I believe I was the only one to give input on that of any kind.

I'm pretty sure I agreed to the structure. My issue is that one was not in place before we began recruiting.

What's the big deal about Brock being a co-GM?

There is literally 0 reason for him to have that position.

What's the big deal that the website changed hands? It's not a spectacular website, it's a pre-made template that churns out a bunch of APIs from blizzard. And honestly, we needed

something

going soon, considering not everyone in the guild is a MS user.

I wanted to over time (using something as a short-term solution) build our own website. We can pull from those APIs, too, we just need to build the systems to do so with.

[AGar]

What's the big deal about Brock being a co-GM?

There is literally 0 reason for him to have that position.

He put in for the original charter. As far as I'm informed, we didn't repurchase anything, and this wasn't a "from-scratch" guild. Why wouldn't he be deserving of it? We're not a strictly MS guild, as we've opened up recruiting, and it seems we haven't always been a straight-MS guild. I feel like this is nothing really worth arguing.

What's the big deal that the website changed hands? It's not a spectacular website, it's a pre-made template that churns out a bunch of APIs from blizzard. And honestly, we needed

something

going soon, considering not everyone in the guild is a MS user.

I wanted to over time (using something as a short-term solution) build our own website. We can pull from those APIs, too, we just need to build the systems to do so with.

Well this is the short-term solution. Reck and I already talked about the APIs and building something from scratch today. I see no problem with multiple people working on the actual website for long-term, unless you have something already half-built and aren't telling us this. If you thought you were going to build it on your own, I either worry for your sanity or question if you've taken on a project like that before. I've seen a single person try and build up an entire site - it usually ends in disaster if they're not a professional at this. Again, you might be, but I'm guessing the likelihood is you aren't if you were researching the possibilities before.

[JDodge]

What's the big deal about Brock being a co-GM?

There is literally 0 reason for him to have that position.

He put in for the original charter. As far as I'm informed, we didn't repurchase anything, and this wasn't a "from-scratch" guild. Why wouldn't he be deserving of it? We're not a strictly MS guild, as we've opened up recruiting, and it seems we haven't always been a straight-MS guild. I feel like this is nothing really worth arguing.

So? He's not the only one to have put in for stuff. I'd argue that we in essence refounded the second we changed our name and we all joined up. Aren't guild charters 10 gold? some people have put in for entire bank tabs, which cost way more.

What's the big deal that the website changed hands? It's not a spectacular website, it's a pre-made template that churns out a bunch of APIs from blizzard. And honestly, we needed

something

going soon, considering not everyone in the guild is a MS user.

I wanted to over time (using something as a short-term solution) build our own website. We can pull from those APIs, too, we just need to build the systems to do so with.

Well this is the short-term solution. Reck and I already talked about the APIs and building something from scratch today. I see no problem with multiple people working on the actual website for long-term, unless you have something already half-built and aren't telling us this. If you thought you were going to build it on your own, I either worry for your sanity or question if you've taken on a project like that before. I've seen a single person try and build up an entire site - it usually ends in disaster if they're not a professional at this. Again, you might be, but I'm guessing the likelihood is you aren't if you were researching the possibilities before.

The issue is not multiple people working on the website, it's creative control and the fact that nothing was coordinated between the two of us.