There Will Be Bloodshed (Game Over)


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Post Post #6 (isolation #0) » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:45 pm

Post by Pine »

Checking in. I'm not actually a big fan of random voting stages, so instead I'll introduce myself. My background with this game is mostly from many years of playing it with the kids and staff at the children's camp I've worked at for the last 10 years. I learned it in college, and introduced a tamer version than is played here to the camp. Mafia kidnapped victims, and instead of lynchings, people got arrested. That sort of thing.

I've played a few games on forums, and I learned in a big damn hurry that most of the skills I'd honed in live games were utterly useless in this medium, such as reading body language, analyzing tone and inflection, and straight-up looking people in the eye and asking them blunt questions. Despite that, I've done a lot of research on the Mafiascum wiki on theory, though I'm sure there are some gaps in my ad hoc education.

A word about my playstyle: I'm brash and aggressive, and like to challenge
everyone
, a few people at a time. So don't be surprised if I suddenly launch into a detailed analysis of your actions so far and read entirely too deeply into them. Over the course of the first week or so, I intend to put everyone, likely including myself, under the microscope. The second week, I'll follow up on any leads gained from the first, and look into them a bit more. The idea is that Pro-Town doesn't really have much to hide, but scum has
everything
to hide, and I believe intense, proactive, individual examination to be better tactically than to cast one's net wide and hope to catch scum in their slip-ups.

I think I've rambled enough...let the inane, meaningless votes continue. I find that they're often not so innocent after all.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the wombat of war!"

Act 3, Scene 1 of
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, by W. Shakespeare
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Post Post #7 (isolation #1) » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:46 pm

Post by Pine »

Well, Cookie, until you set a gender, I am resolved to refer to you as an 'it' as well. Bugs me not to know which pronoun to use.
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Post Post #16 (isolation #2) » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:55 pm

Post by Pine »

[winger] wrote:Natalie Portman is so overrated.
Clearly, you didn't see Black Swan.
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Post Post #30 (isolation #3) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:00 am

Post by Pine »

Parama wrote:Calcifer, explain each of those reads in detail, because right now I'm really liking my vote as more than RVS.
Calcifer wrote:I'll let Nacho handle the RVS. My RVS antics are...less than appreciated. :P
Personally, I'm chalking it up to the second quote, for now.

@Calcifer: Thanks for the offer of instruction, but no thanks. I'm savvy enough not to fall into the trap of someone I'm looking hard at as scum. I've pulled that trick in far too many games with novice players while playing as Mafia. Bring them under your wing, gain an ally, give them genuinely good advice, and subconsciously, they'll never suspect you. It also works wonders in cutthroat strategy games, like Risk. Play your opponents against each other while portraying the voice of wisdom, let them bleed each other dry, and sweep them all up when they're spread thin. Same principle applies here; I'm not going to let anyone manipulate my strategy or vote, even subliminally. But thanks for the thought, if you are Town.

Note that that's not a FOS, per se, just wariness. We can talk after this game about our apparently-similar styles.

I'll post in greater detail later. Busy day, even if it is a snow day on spring break. (The video games, they call to me.)

Preview edit @DLG. When I wrote the "fluff and stuff" post, it was going to be only the second player post. And as I've previously stated, I'm not actually a fan of RVS, preferring instead the Q&A or tell-me-about-yourself stuff. Further, I'm a new player in a game of, as far as I can tell, people who largely have a history. I felt an introduction was warranted, in the spirit of laying all of one's cards on the table. And at that time, there was really nothing to challenge or pick apart. In a few hours, around dinner time or so, I intend to sit down and cut apart what's happened so far. The other two posts fall into a similar category-nothing really significant to look at yet. The pronoun thing is actually pertinent (in my opinion,) as, if you haven't noticed, I'm a bit of a stickler for spelling, grammar, and clarity, though I have rarely been accused of being concise. And honestly, Black Swan was the best movie I'd seen all year. I check threads near-constantly, as is the wont of a student with a smart phone and perpetual internet access. Most of those posts, however, are meant to be asides, where ones like this are when I've actually sat down with my computer to type out something. Paragraphs on a smart phone are hard to do and...damn I've rambled a lot. Mostly off-topic, which I suppose actually strengthens your point.

TL;DR-I have ADHD, and check posts a lot. Long posts like this will be common, but also expect short comments on what people have said. The long posts are the serious ones, short posts are generally made from my phone and not intended to be significant.

Preview edit #2: Dammit, I need to write shorter posts. Got ninja'd twice in what was intended to be a brief check-in. Yes, this was relatively brief compared to what you may see later. Apologies in advance for walls of text, I like to ramble. I'll post TL;DR summaries when it occurs to me to do so.
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Post Post #42 (isolation #4) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:20 am

Post by Pine »

Friend wrote:Pine, why don't you like random voting stages when you're implying that you can gain information out of these "not-so-innocent" votes?
I think I missed this, and just now caught it as I went through to do the aforementioned detailed analysis. I don't like
truly
random voting because I feel it is pointless and misleading. Instead of providing useful information, as my first post attempted to do, it instead allows scum a chance to use the excuse of random voting as a shield to hide their first mistake behind. I would rather have the first round of posts be introductions and announcement of play styles, as I did. This provides some solid information that can be fact-checked against the player's history where applicable (i.e. go to my Newbie thread, you'll see the same play style there, and same on the Myth-weavers.com Game 4A, wherein I was a Cop.)
Calcifer wrote:I'll let Nacho handle the RVS. My RVS antics are...less than appreciated. :P
Calcifer wrote:Let's see where this gets us.

Vote: GreyICE.
These seem not to match up, Calcifer. Care to explain?
Preview Edit: It occurred to me that this might have been Nachomamma finally making himself known on the Calcifer Hydra. Challenge not retracted, however, as with a hydra, I feel it is easy to pass little mistakes off as the fault of the other head. Explain, please.
----End of Page One----
Calcifer wrote:I'm fully capable of explaining the reads in detail, but feel it'd be anti-town to do so at this moment.
In what way is explaining suspicions anti-Town? If they're genuine and well-founded, then by all means share your reasons. If they aren't founded in some sort of reasoning, then making that list was a rather scummy thing to do. In my book, pointing fingers without explanation is a scum tactic. For that matter, asserting that an individual is Town or probably Town without backing it up, or defending anyone without obvious reasons this early in the game, is just as suspicious.
Empking wrote:
You both have Friend in your sights already, but aren't providing any reasons. Please do so.
My reasoning was given. Friend is trying to look town.
Empking wrote:
Vote; Friend
- Trying to get C-Worl to have an avvatar. Not completely random.
That's your reason? Among the few things more suspicious than pointing fingers without good reason at this stage of the game is pointing fingers without good reason, and standing by those inadequate reasons. If this were a later Day Phase, I'd think you might be a cop with a guilty result and an inept way of going about executing it. But it's Day One. Provide a good reason. There's no 'or unvote' attached to that, by the way, it's hard to believe that someone would stick to an RVS vote without a reason, and I would like to hear yours.
GreyICE wrote:P.P.S. If that was a short wall from Pine, I say we report him to the moderator, Mastin is running two accounts. My god man, take a minute or two and edit your post down into something that makes sense. I've been diagnosed with ADD, that doesn't mean you have to inflict rambling wallposts on the world :(
I am not Mastin. Correlation does not imply causality.
Anyway, I'll just Vote: No Lynch because I've done it a few times and Mastin is metaing me, so he should see that I'm town when I do it :D
As much as I can understand fucking with someone's head, a No Lynch vote is just...I'm not sure there's a good word for it. Given the explanation, I'm inclined to not think it as scummy as I would otherwise, but...No Lynch isn't a good thing for Town.
silverbullet999 wrote:
I'll post TL;DR summaries when it occurs to me to do so.
Good boy!
I am not your dog. You may be confusing the wolf pup in your avatar with me. Additionally, I may be new to these boards, but I don't appreciate being talked down to.

I think that's all for now. Posts, votes, and discussions not critically assessed were deemed either empty, pointless, or already-addressed. Please note again my distaste for genuinely random voting. Also, if I have yet to comment on you, it is probably because I don't feel your posts thus far were noteworthy. Please contribute. It is only through analysis and discussion that the Town can reliably root out filth, and if you don't participate, you're not helping us towards our WinCon. And only ~1/3 of us want that, and I think you know which third I mean.

--------
Sorry folks, no TL;DR summary. In-depth analyses like this rarely will contain them, because a full enumeration of the points for and against those involved is more-or-less the point.
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Post Post #44 (isolation #5) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:31 am

Post by Pine »

...I am stunned and impressed by your concise and well-considered post, Jerbs. Bravo.
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Post Post #54 (isolation #6) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:43 pm

Post by Pine »

Parama wrote:Pine, your walls will not be read by me. Just FYI.
Friend wrote:Pine definitely seems like he's trying too hard (and I concur with the lack of wall-reading). That sarcastic response wasn't good either.
silverbullet999 wrote:I'll read what you post to me... and your TLDR's... but that's about it.
I find this lazy and irresponsible at best, scummy at worst. Ask me to cut back if you're bothered by verbosity, but not reading posts solely because of their length is only to the scum's advantage, especially when the poster has put a lot of thought and analysis into them.

@Friend: I'll concede that few or none of those votes are, technically, random. However, they are largely inane and pointless. And as previously stated, the innocent ones can provide a screen for a scum's early mistake. Sorting the good from the bad when half the group is just messing around is a lot more difficult than in serious discussion.
@GreyICE: I don't follow your problem with my methods. There was plenty of analysis in that post, though admittedly it was coupled with an overabundance of quotes. I'll cut back on the quotes to avoid this, which hopefully will clear up both your problem and the lazy readers' problems.
@Silverbullet: In retrospect, I probably over-reacted without regard for alternative interpretations of what you'd said. My bad.
@TwoHeadedBoy: From what I've read, there seems to be dissension in the community regarding NL votes. While I agree that it isn't a scum tell, I find it suspicious. That's what I was implying, rather than 'NL votes are a scum tell.'
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Post Post #91 (isolation #7) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:20 pm

Post by Pine »

Okay, I'm going to
really
try to keep this short, but no promises. It is apparent to me now that in this crowd, at least, my actual points get lost when I explain them fully. I find this sad and ironic.
Cookie_of_Death wrote:Pine, conciseness is protown.
I couldn't disagree more, but I won't waste time debating it. Parama's response was just uncalled-for.
@Nachomamma: I can see what you meant re: my first post, but in other games, I've gotten attacked for it right out of the box. It was less about defending my style and more about warning people of what was coming. Your partner's similar style is well-known and required no introduction.
@ConfidAnon: The intent behind my "wall post" was to address and analyze as much as I could at that point. This has served me very well in the past, even in live games, where I have been known to sit silent for half the discussion time and then conduct a point-by-point dissection of what's been said. It is clear to me that this adaptation of live strategy is not being received well in this crowd, and I'm now scrambling to adjust to water that is suddenly over my head.
@GreyICE: 1) Did you really think I thought you were Mastin? No, but as noted above, I was under the mistaken impression that responding to everything was a good idea.
2) Did you really think I became less scummy because my reason entire reason for voting "No Lynch" was I do that when I'm town? That didn't enter into it at all. I was dismissive of it because it was advertised to be for meta/joke purposes only.
C-Worl wrote:No, if that were true I would've voted Pine who had 3 votes on him at the time. I'm legit giving them a chance to respond before I vote.
What specifically are you looking for a response to?

------------

TL;DR: I've gone from being a big fish in a small pond to medium at best in a big pond. Stuff that's been effective for me in the past no longer is. I'm going to scale back the aggressiveness of my style, and would like you all to cut me a small but reasonable amount of slack. I'm going to try and pipe down a bit for the next day or two, and figure out how to appropriately integrate. I'm not going to do anyone any good by getting lynched on Day One for not knowing how to play with the big kids.

Preview Edit: Forgot to mention this @GreyICE-There's actually a mathematical case to be made about 2+2 not equaling 4. I'd probably get dragged out back and shot if I elaborated, though.
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Post Post #93 (isolation #8) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:29 pm

Post by Pine »

Spoiler: GreyICE provoked this.
Actually, I was referring to the interesting problem of repeating decimals. The classic case is where 1 =/= 1. 1/3=.33 repeating, right? And 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1, right? But check it out: .33(r) + .33(r) + .33(r) does NOT equal 1. It never accounts for the infinitely small remainder. Same principle applies to 2+2.

I am not a zombie badge? I'm not sure I follow.
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Post Post #108 (isolation #9) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:55 pm

Post by Pine »

@Cookie: I objected to Jerbs lack of, well, anything in his post. I just didn't feel it was a good idea to go apeshit on his vote against me. Hence my mixed-signals, sarcastic response.
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Post Post #111 (isolation #10) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:03 pm

Post by Pine »

Slaxx wrote:
Alive
:
1. Parama
2. Cookie_Of_Death
3. Empking
4. diddin
5. AGar
6. ConfidAnon
7. Jerbs
8. TwoHeadedBoy (InflatablePie+Fugitive)
9. DLG
10. Friend
11. Calcifer (Nachomomma8+Mastin)
12. Wraith
13. GreyICE
14. nhammen
15. C-worl
16. [winger]
17. Pine
18. evilpacman18
19. silverbullet999

Not Alive (Dead):

None Yet
So, who are you again, Antihero?
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Post Post #117 (isolation #11) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:12 pm

Post by Pine »

*sigh* I wanted to stay on topic, which is why I put the math question in spoiler tags and kept it short. Here's what I meant, elaborated:
Spoiler: The math question
It's just a theoretical glitch in the repeating decimal notation. .33 + .33 + .33 has a remainder of .01. .33333 + .33333 + .33333 has a remainder of .00001. .3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 + .3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 + .3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 has a remainder of .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001. This goes on to infinity, and never actually reaches exactly 1. What the others are missing is that adding fractions does not have this problem, and multiplication glosses over it. I was talking about addition only.

It isn't a
real
problem, because it is the very definition of
not statistically significant
. In fact, it isn't actually a mathematical problem at all, but rather a flaw in the
notation
system. Of course three thirds of a pie equals a whole pie, but if you write the equation the right way, you get a problem. Mathematics is littered with tiny glitches like that, which reflect flaws in how we translate the pure language of math.

Can we be on-topic now?
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Post Post #125 (isolation #12) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:29 pm

Post by Pine »

This is mostly just a sudden gut reaction inspired by GreyICE's point.

Mastin has an established meta, and part of it is this exact sort of thing. There aren't many (good) reasons for Town to put up unsubstantiated lists like that, but a big one is to see who gets defensive or overly concerned about fingers waved in their general direction. Now, I don't know if this was Calcifer-Mastin's purpose, indeed I remain suspicious of him for it, but it serves mine. It may not have been intended as a scum trap, but C-Worl's sprung it anyway and made a big ping on the scumdar.

VOTE: C-worl
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Post Post #130 (isolation #13) » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:12 pm

Post by Pine »

Not sure whose vote that's directed at, GreyICE...you seem to have your doubts about both C-Worl and myself, but not counting his vote and mine, there haven't been any votes at all for the last page and a half or so.

Also going to bed.
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Post Post #169 (isolation #14) » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:47 am

Post by Pine »

Spoiler: In my defense
Good god. Have a nice 10-hour spring break sleep and wake up to a lynch mob.

Re: Going to bed-Seriously? I went to bed. There were a couple of hours of intense back-and-forth, and by the time it was getting into the early AMs, I had had enough. I was declaring my intent not to respond to anything for a while, as I'd be unconscious. Regardless of the fact that I played Starcraft 2 for a while before actually going to sleep.

@DLG: Your reasons boil down to 1) Expressing uncertainty 2) Taking a blow to my ego and actually learning from it and 3) The math discussion, which I didn't actually start, got goaded into, and have tried repeatedly to suppress or end. I'm not sure whether this is tunnel vision or whether you're just squinting as hard as you can in order to make the case you've already decided upon.

Re: Trying too hard: Yeah, I was. So now that I'm trying to back off, as half the thread was clamoring for me to do, it's even more suspicious? I don't get you people. Simply put, I've made mistakes regardless of my alignment. As Town, I've pissed people off and let ego get in the way, and distract people from hunting actual scum. As Mafia, I've gotten too greedy and too obvious. As SK, I've stuck my neck out way too far and gotten noticed. As some other third or fourth party...well, it'd depend on the role, but it still isn't good.

My actions thus far have included a lot of
mistakes
. I screwed up early, and of course I'm trying to fix things now. I put myself into a lose/lose/lose position, and which 'lose' I'm in depends only on alignment. Bad for Town and bad for scum=novice errors. Null tells.

Right now, I'm taking on water. I'll return to actual scumhunting once I've bailed out and gotten back on course. I've noticed things, but I don't think they'd be taken seriously by about half the group right now.
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Post Post #257 (isolation #15) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:44 am

Post by Pine »

Now who's rolefishing, Wraith?

Calcifer, GreyICE, kindly stop buddying up to me so hard. My vote can't be bought by defending me, and I'll damn well defend myself when necessary. Plus, you make all of us look scummy when you do it.
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Post Post #266 (isolation #16) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:35 am

Post by Pine »

TwoHeadedBoy wrote:...scum wouldn't obviously defend their mates so damn hard even on D1...
Eh, you have a point. I'm not used to people defending me, makes me feel like I'm someone's kid brother or something. It's annoying.
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Post Post #312 (isolation #17) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:27 pm

Post by Pine »

nhammen wrote:Bedtime. Will finish catching up tomorrow.
Oh my god! He said he's going to bed! Wagon on nhammen! [/sarcasm]

Spent the day traveling, will get a substantive post up first thing in the morning. I've got a mental list in my head of stuff I've observed.
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Post Post #335 (isolation #18) » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:46 am

Post by Pine »

MFing laptop power cord died, and I'm out of state, so I can't go exchange it (the receipt is at home). Stuck using my phone for now, so the extended post I've been meaning to make will have to wait for Monday.

I don't get the read on Emp that Icey does, but I do on Parama. Need reasoning? View Parama's posts in isolation. He's done practically nothing but lodge votes with poor or no reasoning and tear down the efforts of people scumhunting. Lurking/sniping/counterproductivity.
UNVOTE: C-Worl (The case against him's gotten stale anyway)
VOTE: Parama
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Post Post #343 (isolation #19) » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:33 am

Post by Pine »

My vote on Parama isn't sudden, I've been considering it for days.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me regarding the merits of continuing to pile onto the Friend wagon? We don't want a speedlynch, and forcing him to roleclaim won't likely help. If he's a town PR, he'll get killed by the scum on N1. If he
claims
a PR, most people will be dissuaded from following through, which will get him off the hook if scum. So...why build the wagon this big nine days out from deadline?

Preview edit @Icey: both votes on C-Worl have since been unvoted, though I'm not convinced of his innocence and I'm not taking your word for it sans explanation.
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Post Post #346 (isolation #20) » Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:44 am

Post by Pine »

Well, I'm not involved in any of the arguments, and I'd rather move on to investigating others. I'll grant that Friend is the scummiest at this point, but there's plenty of other things to do. Ignoring that and speed-lynching just gives scum a free pass. To do what you're suggesting they'd have to lurk
successfully
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Post Post #370 (isolation #21) » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:50 pm

Post by Pine »

I'm quite at a loss. So you folks want to speed lynch and
give away
the 9 remaining days we have to scum hunt? We can come back to Friend at any time, he's not going anywhere. I've heard recklessness called pro-Town, but trading away time for the quickest, obvious lynch just doesn't seem wise.
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Post Post #371 (isolation #22) » Fri Mar 11, 2011 5:53 pm

Post by Pine »

EBWOP: THB, you'll find that that second quote answers your first question. I most certainly do
not
propose inactivity. Quite the opposite.
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Post Post #377 (isolation #23) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:12 am

Post by Pine »

And pushing for a speed lynch is a great way to be anti-Town while not appearing it. What's your point?
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Post Post #383 (isolation #24) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:27 am

Post by Pine »

Friend wrote:Speed lynches aren't anti-town. If everyone agrees someone is scum they should lynch them. Waiting around and complaining about a lack of discussion isn't solving anything.
Arright, fine. If you insist.
UNVOTE: Parama
VOTE: Friend
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Post Post #385 (isolation #25) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:33 am

Post by Pine »

What OMGUS? I don't know that you ever voted for me, and you certainly weren't just there. I'm voting for you because of the elaborate and well-established case against you. I just wanted to use the extra time granted to us to hunt your scumbuddies, like Parama. But sure, if you insist on falling on your sword sooner rather than later, fine.
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Post Post #388 (isolation #26) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:59 am

Post by Pine »

So I'm scum when I want to pursue other options, and scum when I finally cave and agree with the group? Circular logic is circular, with the foreordained conclusion of a pointed finger. Anything to divert attention from a scummate, yeah?
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Post Post #391 (isolation #27) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:16 pm

Post by Pine »

I see where you're coming from, I suppose, but that isn't the case here.

So, are people willing to pursue other options, with Friend as our backup in the case others don't present themselves? Or are you all committed to finishing Friend off now?
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Post Post #400 (isolation #28) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:07 pm

Post by Pine »

I wanted to keep scumhunting. Hell, it's -still- my preference. But it seems no one else is even a little interested. So what the hell, fine. You're reading too deeply into it. If we're going with Friend, let's get it over. If not, then let's keep him on the back burner and look at someone else. My biggest suspects are Parama, Friend, diddin, and [winger], in that order.
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Post Post #413 (isolation #29) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:44 am

Post by Pine »

Friend & Empking = scumbuddies?

Smacks of desperately looking for someone to deflect attention onto.
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Post Post #416 (isolation #30) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:06 am

Post by Pine »

Friend wrote:
Pine wrote:Friend & Empking = scumbuddies?

Smacks of desperately looking for someone to deflect attention onto.
Isn't that exactly what you're trying to do with this post?
No.
Empking wrote:I was making a joke.
Oh. My bad.
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Post Post #448 (isolation #31) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:08 pm

Post by Pine »

Friend wrote:Because I'm pissed the fuck off. This is exactly what happened in Succession Mafia. Lynch me now please.
There's a clear least common denominator there. Clever to point out a game with a similar situation where you flipped Town, though.
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Post Post #450 (isolation #32) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:27 pm

Post by Pine »

WTF does that mean, C-Worl? He answered the questions, though belatedly and not very satisfactorily.
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Post Post #455 (isolation #33) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 3:44 pm

Post by Pine »

C-Worl wrote:That's what I mean by playing hardball. He's making us run around in circles to get information out of him and he's mad at us for not listening.
And you're just feeding into it. Friend knows he's going down, and probably doing his best to get as many people looking suspicious before going down and muddy the waters. And he's doing a good job, too. So stop helping him.
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Post Post #460 (isolation #34) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:03 pm

Post by Pine »

Wait what? What the hell is scummy about "Don't feed the troll?" Friend is moving in that direction.
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Post Post #468 (isolation #35) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:21 pm

Post by Pine »

I thought you didn't read walls, Parama?

@Silver: I'm reasonably confident in my vote on Friend.
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Post Post #474 (isolation #36) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:30 pm

Post by Pine »

So content and formatting are bad?

...Got it. I guess.

And I'll grant that your wall is entertaining. I lol'd a few times

@Silver: I thought my post was simple enough for you to understand. Friend is hovering around third place on my scum list, jockeying with Wraith and [winger]. But I'll take the scum we can get now over my favorites.

Hence "pretty confident"
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Post Post #482 (isolation #37) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:40 pm

Post by Pine »

Sarcasm, analysis, and good trolling are an art form. Hiraki's earned my respect for it.

One thing I notices upon re-read...calling DLG obvtown within your analytical post is a clever way for you to subtly plant the idea of your innocence as his replacement as a given.

See? Benefits if actually reading instead of skimming. I notice stuff.
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Post Post #490 (isolation #38) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:29 pm

Post by Pine »

UNVOTE: Friend
I'm willing to give Hiraki a little time to present his case. We've got the time, and the vote can go right back if it isn't convincing.

Friend was at L-2 before.
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Post Post #493 (isolation #39) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:24 pm

Post by Pine »

@Hiraki: I ISO'd Calcifer like you suggested, and you're right, I spotted a few scummy things I had missed when they were spread out. However, I also noticed that at Calc's last town/scum rundown, he had DLG pegged as scum. Considering that you inherited DLG's role and are just now reading those accusations, I wonder whether they hit a bit close to the mark. Especially as you solidified your case against Calc at around the same time you read them.

So the result of ISOing Calc was to drop both you and him from a Townie read to neutral at best.

For reference, I'm looking primarily at Calc ISO posts 18 and 20.
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Post Post #498 (isolation #40) » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:01 am

Post by Pine »

Friend wrote:Yeah so guys, if my lynch is what's needed to get this town in the right direction, I'm perfectly fine with that. If not, let's lynch Pine cause he's scum.
Any port in a storm.
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Post Post #509 (isolation #41) » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:55 am

Post by Pine »

nhammen wrote:I'm gonna echo the others and say that I'd like to know why you don't find Friend to be scum, Hiraki.
I'm still waiting on this, too.

nhammen, what reads do you have so far, aside form those mentioned? Fresh perspective would be nice.
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Post Post #518 (isolation #42) » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:13 pm

Post by Pine »

C-Worl wrote:Well then, those are very valid points.

Mr. Pine, do you have a response to Friend's claims?
I responded to them when they were first made. They were stupid then, and they are now. Read the damn thread, C-Worl
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Post Post #537 (isolation #43) » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:07 pm

Post by Pine »

@Hiraki: Case for Friend
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Post Post #548 (isolation #44) » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:24 pm

Post by Pine »

Hiraki wrote:
C-Worl wrote:Why should Fugitive? You're not making any sense Hikaru. Also, stop ignoring Pine's questions. Why are you claiming Friend to be towny, if you don't give your reason eventually someone will hammer him.
My mistake. Meant Cookie/Anti.

Because no one has made a valid case up, I'm going to assume there is no good case.
So, in other words, your adamant defense of Friend has no basis beyond your say-so. And yet you're vilifying Calcifer on almost exactly those grounds?
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Post Post #561 (isolation #45) » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:45 am

Post by Pine »

AGar wrote:
C-Worl wrote:Why should I get lynched? I haven't done anything wrong (that I know of)
Ummm hey scum.

Hiraki is stalling hardcore here. Definite Friend-buddy.
^This. Hiraki, you've got till noon tomorrow (my time) to make your case.

Or hey, Friend could stop lurking and actually contribute to his own defense. Either way.
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Post Post #570 (isolation #46) » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:54 am

Post by Pine »

#3 also isn't very true. It's almost pure deflection, and the accusation itself had a very weak basis; I answered readily when he pressed me on that.
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Post Post #583 (isolation #47) » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:27 pm

Post by Pine »

That was...schitzophrenically entertaining.
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Post Post #593 (isolation #48) » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:12 pm

Post by Pine »

So Hiraki, are we clear on this? You're going to continue defending Friend simply by dismissing the volumes of evidence, and deflecting onto anyone who pursues how odd that is?

By my clock, 12 hours and 49 minutes to the deadline set forth in P561. And when Friend flips scum, that'll move you to the top of the list.
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Post Post #604 (isolation #49) » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:37 am

Post by Pine »

AGar wrote:Friend's at L-1.

~3 days & 7 hours till deadline.

Let's get a hammer.
I took my vote off Friend a while back when Hiraki started defending him, but the 'grace period' deadline for explaining the case for Friend expires in 4 hours and 23 minutes.

Last chance, Hiraki/Friend.
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Post Post #607 (isolation #50) » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:29 am

Post by Pine »

Well, it's 12:29, and no effort from either Friend or Hiraki to prevent this. Empty defense is empty.

VOTE: Friend
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Post Post #609 (isolation #51) » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:36 am

Post by Pine »

Sorry, nhammen. I'd have waited had I been paying attention to that conversation. Apologies for the faux pas.
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Post Post #623 (isolation #52) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:19 am

Post by Pine »

VOTE: Parama
Not OMGUS. Parama's been at or near the top of my list for a while now, and you can add wagoning to the list of reasons.
My original points against him: Link
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Post Post #627 (isolation #53) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:53 am

Post by Pine »

Ahh. Jumping on wagons without stating your own, independent reasons is scummy when Jerbs does it, but pro-Town when Parama does it. Note that this is completely in-line with my original reasons for voting for Parama on D1.
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Post Post #629 (isolation #54) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:09 am

Post by Pine »

You're aware that your last point contradicts some of your others?
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Post Post #641 (isolation #55) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:27 am

Post by Pine »

But why'd you do it at all?

The way I see it, Parama, you make a habit of misrepresenting whoever you see as vulnerable, ignoring anything that contradicts your premise, and trying as hard as you can to skim others' reasons, distill them, and present them as your own in an effort to win their support. And when anyone appears to be honestly scumhunting or willing to declare support or condemnation for someone you disagree with, you go ahead and paint them blackly too.

All that is remarkably scummy, and I'm surprised that only I saw it in Day One. Though I'm not surprised that a replacement, who read the thread without preconceived notions, saw what I did.
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Post Post #647 (isolation #56) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:21 am

Post by Pine »

Parama wrote:d(''d)
What in the hell is this supposed to mean? I've seen you use it twice now.
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Post Post #650 (isolation #57) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:26 pm

Post by Pine »

Yeah, I figured that out already. Didn't think it was noteworthy enough to waste another post on.

You did, though.
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Post Post #653 (isolation #58) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:24 pm

Post by Pine »

@Silver:
Parama
Hiraki
diddin and C-Worl are duking it out for third.
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Post Post #655 (isolation #59) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:34 pm

Post by Pine »

Hmm. diddin can doublevote, confirmed by mod. I've never heard of doublevoting scum in a normal game, guess he's in the clear.
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Post Post #676 (isolation #60) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:15 pm

Post by Pine »

Parama wrote:Day just started and you're already abandoning the wagon. Great job scum, please come again.
Though now I am INCREDIBLY wary about the Jerbs wagon... eh, bussing and all that is probably a factor here.
^Delayed OMGUS. "Great! He's no longer voting for me, so I can begin tearing him down without looking scummier."
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Post Post #678 (isolation #61) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:18 pm

Post by Pine »

I've made several. Summarized it here.

-you can always ask me to fix those
Last edited by Slaxx on Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #679 (isolation #62) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:19 pm

Post by Pine »

Code fail. Copy paste, or just look at post 641.
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Post Post #681 (isolation #63) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:21 pm

Post by Pine »

No, you didn't.
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Post Post #683 (isolation #64) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:27 pm

Post by Pine »

No, it isn't. You're making things up as you go along, now.
Pine wrote:The way I see it, Parama, you make a habit of
misrepresenting whoever you see as vulnerable
, ignoring anything that contradicts your premise, and trying as hard as you can to skim others' reasons, distill them, and present them as your own in an effort to win their support. And
when anyone appears to be honestly scumhunting or willing to declare support or condemnation for someone you disagree with, you go ahead and paint them blackly too
.
Bolding is for added emphasis on the tactics you're using against Romanus.
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Post Post #685 (isolation #65) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:29 pm

Post by Pine »

@who, Silver?
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Post Post #690 (isolation #66) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:39 pm

Post by Pine »

Parama wrote:Day just started and you're already abandoning the wagon. Great job scum, please come again.
Though now I am INCREDIBLY wary about the Jerbs wagon... eh, bussing and all that is probably a factor here.
Parama wrote:It was awesome until you hopped on it.
^This is you painting someone as unreliable, scummy, or just insulting them.
Parama wrote:I proved him scum before he switched his vote off me.
^This is too, and is also simply untrue.
Parama wrote:That is the equivalent of a scum claim from Romanus, so.
^This is misrepresentation
Parama wrote:There's absolutely no misrep. Those are all things he said, with my name changed to his to prove a point. Still has the same meaning even with the original text. And it shows hypocritical behavior. Now go learn to play mafia so the good players can start lynching right.
^This is all of the above.

Better, Hiraki? Or were you looking for a Cop claim?
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Post Post #693 (isolation #67) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:51 pm

Post by Pine »

Hiraki wrote:Nothing there was scummy. That's regular Parama.

Are you going to PR claim when you get to L-1?
I'll claim my actual role.

And meta is used as an excuse for the scummy behavior of veterans so often around here it's making me want to vomit. Or create a meta that is scummy, so that when I actually am scum, I can fall back on it.

@Parama: Because they're based solely on "Because I said so." You've never adequately explained them, and have based your entire strategy around putting peoples' otherwise innocuous actions. And what the hell do I care what you think? I'm convinced you're scum, and you're committed to framing me, Romanus, and anyone who even
might
be a threat to you or even disagree with you loudly.

Douche baggery is NOT a valid strategy. You focus SO much energy on attacking the person instead of any kind of analysis, that people like Hiraki, who has presumably seen you play as Town in the same manner, dismiss all scummy shit you do.
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Post Post #696 (isolation #68) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:20 pm

Post by Pine »

Where? Where the hell did he point a finger at an "easy D2 lynch?" Or were you referring to Jerbs? Jerbs has like 3-4 votes on him, and no significant previous suspicion on him. So let's put it back on you: where's your case, aside from character assassination of every single player who's voted from you other than the confirmed Townie?
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Post Post #697 (isolation #69) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:21 pm

Post by Pine »

My point: Most or all of Parama's points are based on unexplained "reads," character impeachment, and attacking anything that moves against him.
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Post Post #699 (isolation #70) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:26 pm

Post by Pine »

@Calc: Jerbs looks somewhat scummy, but not so much as Parama. And not as much as some people are making him out to be. He's like fifth or sixth on my list. I also haven't said anything about C-Worl, and he's third on my list. What of it?
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Post Post #703 (isolation #71) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:49 pm

Post by Pine »

Calcifer wrote:Well, a Parama vote is not a good place for your vote to be. You're only looking at his actions at the surface, as opposed to scum intent beneath them. No matter how you look at Jerbs's posting, it's just plain scummy.
You're probably right regarding my vote. No matter how convinced I am of Parama's guilt, it's not gonna happen, and the longer it stays there, the longer I'm going to be Parama's defamation target.
UNVOTE: Parama
VOTE: C-Worl
Volume of scummy activities on D1, has flown mostly under the radar because of newbie status and touches of VI. I'll assemble the full case in the morning, it's getting late.
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Post Post #710 (isolation #72) » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:14 pm

Post by Pine »

C-Worl wrote:
Pine wrote:VOTE: C-Worl
Volume of scummy activities on D1, has flown mostly under the radar because of newbie status and touches of VI. I'll assemble the full case in the morning, it's getting late.
I'm not gonna respect this vote for one reason.
Pine wrote:@Silver:
Parama
Hiraki
diddin and C-Worl are duking it out for third.
So Parama's no longer a good choice because no one's wagoning you so you go straight from your number 1 scumspect to your number 3? I guess you assume you won't be able to get people to wagon onto Hiraki either. So instead of arguing your case toward him your going straight to me in the hopes that people will hop on easier to lynching me. Honestly, I would call all that scummy but since you have so many votes on yourself already, I assume you're just playing defensive regardless of alignment. You also probably assume that hopping on the Jerbs wagon will only make you seem scummier.
Parama's still a great choice for a lynch, but sitting around being the only one with a vote on him isn't
productive
. I skipped Hiraki for now because when I went to make a case against him (instead of you,) I realized that the central issue, his defense of Friend, actually turned out in his favor. I made that list before the end of D1. Hiraki is still in the top five, but I need to re-examine him.

And hey! Congrats on moving to the number two spot! Overreaction to a mere
one
vote against you...check.

@Icey: EPM's performance has thus far been pretty 'meh'. Hasn't moved from a null read the whole game for me. I'm willing to consider it, but care to elaborate?
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Post Post #719 (isolation #73) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:14 am

Post by Pine »

@IC:I see where you're coming from with EPM now. I ISO'd him myself, and it's pretty remarkable. He's made like...two posts with any content whatsoever, and about half of his posts are votes without any reasoning, usually on the strongest wagon. Definitely no longer a null read, but I'm going to keep on C-Worl for now. If others start to see what you saw and pointed out to me, I'll consider giving you my support.
FOS: EPM


@Calc: I think you're cutting C-Worl
way
too much slack because of his newbishness. Maybe in the early part of the game, when there were a couple of us that made rookie mistakes, but a large normal with this cast of characters forces you to gain experience in a big damn hurry. He can't hide behind inexperience any more, and you're enabling that.

I'll start assembling the C-Worl case now.

PEdit: @Romanus: So far. I'm not ready to jump on EPM, and Jerbs has plenty of pressure on him already. I'd rather focus on someone higher up my list than in the middle of it.
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Post Post #727 (isolation #74) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:32 am

Post by Pine »

Holy shit, now
I
want to know what I did, so I can use it again if I ever play scum against you.
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Post Post #733 (isolation #75) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:54 am

Post by Pine »

Okay! The case against C-Worl is ready. Remember how I said I was fond of walls? I've been working VERY hard at conciseness, but it's time to pull out the stops.

He's got too many and way too much fluff in about half of them to go truly post-by-post. I'll hit the notable ones. First number is the ISO number, second is the same post in the real post order. Spoilered for your eyes' sake.
Spoiler:
--3/67: C-Worl's first post of any substance at all. Notice that although C-Worl has the third highest post count, he waited this long to do anything. In fact, he lurked and posted inanities until Calcifer put him on a scum list, at which point he replied within
four minutes
, (indicating he was watching the thread.) The post is devoted to discrediting Calc's FOS, condemning me, defending Parama (scum buddy,) and pointing to Winger as a null tell, then pointing back at Calc and I.
--Over the next few pages, C-Worl continues to get panicky-defensive about being on Calc's scum list, and building a case for NewbTown. What I find especially curious are asking questions that could be easily answered with a simple wiki search. Look at post 7/85 and 10/105. "What is a Hydra?" I'm genuinely NewbTown, and I figured this out with a wiki search the first time it was mentioned. C-Worl wastes time distracting us.
--Posts 123 & 125: Here's where C-Worl really first comes onto my radar. GreyICE says something unrelated, but it gets me thinking and I notice C-Worl's scumminess. Transcribed below:
GreyICE wrote:Given the vast, VAST amounts of time Mastin has put into explaining things and the amount of time that nacho has as well, what makes you think those reads are without reason?

Also, you gonna HATE DrippingGoofball.
Pine wrote:This is mostly just a sudden gut reaction inspired by GreyICE's point.

Mastin has an established meta, and part of it is this exact sort of thing. There aren't many (good) reasons for Town to put up unsubstantiated lists like that, but a big one is to see who gets defensive or overly concerned about fingers waved in their general direction. Now, I don't know if this was Calcifer-Mastin's purpose, indeed I remain suspicious of him for it, but it serves mine. It may not have been intended as a scum trap, but C-Worl's sprung it anyway and made a big ping on the scumdar.
VOTE: C-worl
--ISO posts 11-17 are mostly fluff.
--THB's 158 is a good example of how C-Worl has cultivated a "Too newb to be scum" image, enabling him to get away with scumtells.
--18/190: Here it is, the big giveaway I didn't find until I started ISOing him. At this point, the wagon on C-Worl has been derailed and suspicion has moved on to others, almost entirely thanks to the NewbTown opinions. This is where C-Worl actively propagates the "I'm a newb" defense,
in the same sentence
where he tries to be a voice of authority on strategy. This completely discredits the "I'm a newb defense."
--19/193: Now that he thinks he has a bit of Town cred, he tries to pull people back onto the wagon he supports.
--ISO Posts 20-25: Contributes nothing, mostly fluff and propagation of "Woe is me, people don't like me"
--28/219: This one's an interesting read. First because of the irony that now C-Worl is the one with the 'Goon' title, and second because
no one is this stupid
. He claimed earlier in the thread to have played 5+ games, presumably on other sites, yet he makes a semi-serious argument based on
forum title
? He pushes the newb defense way too hard here.
--30/223: Appeals to emotion, plays to pity, AND reinforces newb defense.
--33/235: Realizes he's getting nowhere, and that he can jump onto the biggest wagon in town without being suspicious. Whines about people respecting Calc/not respecting him as cover. Immediately followed by...
--34/237: Asking for a vote count, to see how close we are to lynching Town.
--Posts 239-242, plus 36/276: Empking makes a good case against C-Worl, C-Worl makes a scummy defense, but the Friend wagon is ramping up so it all gets lost. C-Worl continues scum defense in 36/276 despite the fact that no one remembers the earlier conversation, again trying to take a position of expertise in contradiction of the newb defense.
--Between 38/282 and 39/395, C-Worl takes a 3-day hiatus, showing up to avoid a lurker prod. Magically, it is mere hours after nhammen makes the first case (even a mild one) against C-Worl in days. In 39/395, C-Worl gets defensive (over nothing) and falls back onto the tried and true methods of looking productive while accomplishing nothing: bashing Calc, and "other people have posted a case for my vote, so I don't have to".
--ISO posts 41-54: Nothing of note except ineffective Friend-bashing (the "hardball" line of comments were particularly dumb), fluff, and recruiting for the biggest wagon.
--55/519: "I was trying to end the screaming match between everyone." What the fuck does this mean? The only purpose I see it serving it "Hey, I haven't plead newb in a while, let's say something moronic to reinforce that." Not to mention that C-Worl had been one of the primary instigators of said argument.
--56/535: Lynching VT doesn't matter to C-Worl, because they're useless to him. Also sets up for a future VT claim.
--57/538 & 58/540: AGAIN scrambles to derail even mild suspicion against himself, and push attention back onto the big wagon as soon as possible by referencing valid points that
others
have made.
-->Active lurk to the lynch, doing almost nothing but discredit Hiraki and quote other peoples' cases against him.
-->Friend (VT) is lynched with C-Worl's facilitation. At no point anywhere did C-Worl provide any original thought or evidence against Friend, though he did do whatever he could to keep the wagon up with other peoples' quotes and discrediting Friend's only significant defender.
DAY 2
--Like in Day One, C-Worl lurked and said absolutely nothing until a vote was placed on him. Immediately (2.5 hours later,) he gets way over-defensive to the single vote (66/706), defends Parama AGAIN (mirroring his first post of substance on D1,) and tries to discredit both the person voting for him and Calcifer (67/707). Finally, he equivocated in 68/712 to cover his bases for when I flip Town.

Because I know most of you won't read that...
TL;DR: From the very start, C-Worl has had an active strategy of lurking until he gets noticed, over-defending, and casting aspersions on anyone who suspects him, while contributing NOTHING to the scumhunting efforts. I challenge you to go through C-Worl's ISO and find more than one or two posts that can be conveyed as serious scumhunting, discounting those where he just quotes or parrots others' reasons. Finally and most damning, C-Worl has actively cultivated a NewbTown reputation to deflect attention from his scumtells, while saying numerous things as if from a position of expertise or authority. This is a contradiction.
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Post Post #734 (isolation #76) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:55 am

Post by Pine »

God damnit. Why don't spoilers on this site conform to the way other sites use them?

Slaxx, can you fix that?

-Taken care of sir. Is that acceptable?
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Post Post #736 (isolation #77) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:01 am

Post by Pine »

Thanks for the formatting fix, Slaxx! It's excellent!
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Post Post #738 (isolation #78) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:09 am

Post by Pine »

What's with the waffling on Calc? You went from the most anti-Calc player to CalcTown? I don't find it scummy, per se, as I have a firm Town read on Calc and a growing Town read on you, it's just surprising.
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Post Post #744 (isolation #79) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:49 pm

Post by Pine »

Pay attention, Wraith. It was literally like, 3-4 posts before yours.
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Post Post #747 (isolation #80) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:24 pm

Post by Pine »

Hmm, I can see now why Wraith was deflecting attention. EPM pointed at Wraith, so Wraith deflects to the dead issue of Hiraki's flip. But what was EPM deflecting onto Wraith? My suspicion of C-Worl, or the growing Jerbs wagon?
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Post Post #755 (isolation #81) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:33 pm

Post by Pine »

C-Worl wrote:@Pine, That wall was a humorous read.
Discredit and belittle anyone suspicious, as if from a position of expertise, contradicting "I'm a newwbie" defense.


@Everyone, why exactly is Jerbs scum again?
Defends scumbuddy. I'm thinking Parama/C-Worl/Jerbs/maybe Wraith. C-Worl has defended all three, and (I think) only those three. Yes, I can find quotes if necessary. The other three are given away by the least adept among them.


@Calcifer, (mainly Mastin) I honestly don't care about your Pine read. I just want to know why you suddenly had a huge switch of "reads" during the middle of Day 1.
Falls back on old tactics of diverting attention. And what switch of reads? On me? Mastin spent the first couple pages not certain of me, then pretty sure, then positive. You're actually making shit up now.


@Pine, Also, if I were scum I would have jumped on your wagon the second I got on. I legitimately don't think you're scum. Although, Calcifer's defense of you makes my "Calcifer is scum" theory more plausible.
I don't care what you think of me. And stating the obvious doesn't get you any credit. If you were to produce one
iota
of scumhunting on
anyone
, you might be convincing.
Flaws in C-Worl's inept defense in
green.
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Post Post #758 (isolation #82) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:53 pm

Post by Pine »

C-Worl wrote:Mastin's initial lists had me as scum and then he switched me to town. I even pointed that out (Seeing how you read my iso you should have known that.)
If you actually want a question answered instead of just throwing up a distraction, ask the question such that people who are actually familiar with what you're talking about know what you mean.
C-Worl wrote:Besides I never claimed a newbie defense, other people labeled me with that. I even objected to being called a newb.
Yes, you did:
C-Worl wrote:Yeah, except he's not defending anyone, he's just randomly posting who he thinks may or may not be town with absolutely no reasoning behind any of it.
I may be newb
but this is absolutely atrocious game play in my mind. So since I think he's scum and he doesn't want us to vote Pine, guess what I'm going to do?
Emphasis and color added.
C-Worl wrote:I've been scumhunting Calcifer this whole game yet you claim I haven't scum hunted at all. You even call my scum hunting of Calcifer as my "same old tricks" Now who's contradicting themselves?
Bullshit. You just keep pointing to the same old, tired point, which has mostly been answered, and was originally proposed by someone less scummy than you, repeated by others, and only regurgitated by you, ad nauseum, when it affected you directly.
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Post Post #761 (isolation #83) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:27 pm

Post by Pine »

C-Worl wrote:I said it one time because that's how you people choose to perceive me. I actually consider myself very intelligent and the thought of being labeled as a newb repulses me. I just don't feel like arguing the point with people. I mean you used the same "Newb to these boards" defense on Day 1 yourself.
Yet unlike you, I have made every effort to learn, adapt, and positively contribute to discussion and scumhunting. Aside from your nausea-inducing beating of a dead horse, where have you? Also unlike you, I have not used that as a shield to hide behind nor permitted it to define my play style. You claimed it once, taken advantage of it innumerable times.
C-Worl wrote:As for the question, I asked it a thousand times in a thousand different ways.
And pretty much only that question. And it wasn't even your question, any of those thousand different ways. Nor is it likely to be answered, so you just continue to waste all of our time.

I feel my points have been thoroughly made, and are now being forced into recursion responding to C-Worl. Unless he has something new and relevant to say, I will no longer reply to him regarding his case.
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Post Post #767 (isolation #84) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:14 pm

Post by Pine »

^OMGUS.

Silver's pretty well into the null read section of my list, and Romanus, you're more-or-less null/Town, but that's the reason Silver's voting for you, no matter how he wants to dress it up. You two look more like Town vs Town than anything to me.
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Post Post #772 (isolation #85) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:20 pm

Post by Pine »

C-Worl, Empking, ConfidAnon, diddin, diddin, Hiraki, Calcifer, Parama = 8.

9 To lynch.

Nice try, scum. Hammering someone else is kind of the ultimate deflection, isn't it?

Jerbs hasn't even posted in two full days. I don't think there was a single vote on him last time he checked in.
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Post Post #773 (isolation #86) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:24 pm

Post by Pine »

Then again:
[quote=Jerbs' User Profile]Last visited: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:22 pm[/quote]
An explanation, in a big damn hurry, would be appropriate, Jerbs. At that time, there were four votes on you, and not a peep?
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Post Post #777 (isolation #87) » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:34 pm

Post by Pine »

You've deflected quite a bit when only one person's spotlight is on you. But in this case, there's the added benefit of your statement not being true:
TwoHeadedBoy wrote:Pie won't let me change out vote because I was wrong about friend, and though I'm not as confident as Mastin, I'm pretty sure Pine is town.

If I had a vote it would be on C-Worl for the reasons I listed at the end of yesterday.

~Fugi
Romanus wrote:If Jerbs does flip scum, C-Worl is at the top of my list tomorrow.
@Romanus: Why only if Jerbs flips scum? And I don't follow your last statement regarding scum deflecting for each other, who was that aimed at?
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Post Post #782 (isolation #88) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:01 am

Post by Pine »

Jerbs' ISO is pretty damning, Parama, but I'm not going to help you and C-Worl speed-bus him without final words just because your scumpal can't count to nine.
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Post Post #794 (isolation #89) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:20 am

Post by Pine »

I'm baffled by how you people are getting reads of any quality at all on Jerbs. Maybe it's the experience thing, but all of his posts combined boil down to maybe one solid paragraph.
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Post Post #806 (isolation #90) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:52 am

Post by Pine »

@Calc: You really ought to re-evaluate the newbtown read on C-Worl. He's been hiding behind it practically all game.
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Post Post #810 (isolation #91) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:06 am

Post by Pine »

Arright, the hydra squad has convinced me that a vote on C-Worl just isn't going to be productive. But later, when the field narrows to half a dozen or so and C-Worl is still standing because none of you took him seriously, refer back to the case I made a few pages back for the foundation of yours.

UNVOTE: C-Worl

Okay, now the other people in my top five (at the moment) are Parama, Wraith, Jerbs, and EPM. A vote on Parama would be just as futile right now as it was when i switched off of him, and similar to the reason I'm switching off of C-Worl. Jerbs would result in a premature hammer. There's not nearly enough support for an EPM train to produce pressure and results. That leaves...

VOTE: Wraith

Mostly for reasons others have stated, I'll assemble my own case some time this evening after class.
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Post Post #811 (isolation #92) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:09 am

Post by Pine »

As an aside and in the interests of full disclosure, I have Town reads on both the Calcifer and IceyCupcake hydras (and THB for that matter, despite Pie's tunneling.)

However, as I read the discussion between the pair of hydras that's happened over the last page or so, I just can't shake this nagging, sourceless itch. I have a gut read that
someone
's manipulating
someone
in that mixture, but I have no idea who or to what end.
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Post Post #813 (isolation #93) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:20 am

Post by Pine »

Always with the touchiness, Parama. A simple mention is enough to get you back on the old warhorse. Why not be productive and train up on Wraith? Jerbs at L-1 or L-2 makes little difference, but one more on Wraith would be nice. Unless you didn't mean this?
Parama wrote:Wraith's scumreads are conditional and based on the current leading wagon. Nice to know he's scum.
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Post Post #815 (isolation #94) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:27 am

Post by Pine »

Parama...occasionally, you convince me for a split second that you aren't scum, you're just batshit fuckin' crazy. That was one of those posts.

Then I remember the rest of the nonsense.
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Post Post #818 (isolation #95) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:52 am

Post by Pine »

^Deflection
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Post Post #820 (isolation #96) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:10 am

Post by Pine »

He doesn't have a good answer. He was deflecting, and will almost certainly just parrot old points first mentioned by others from the first dozen pages or so. Curiously, there's been almost nothing new mentioned against me in over a dozen pages, which leads me to think that the people constantly wagoning on me are either scum or afflicted with tunnel vision. THB (Pie) a good example. He decided I was scum within the first couple pages, and hasn't reconsidered it since, despite being attached to Fugitive.
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Post Post #822 (isolation #97) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:46 am

Post by Pine »

Yeah, and I can make a convincing case for Friend as scum, too. Start with a presupposition, and anyone that's smart enough can manipulate the evidence in whatever way they want. My point, Pie, is that you made your decision in the first day or two, when I was still making newbie mistakes. I'll grant that of all the people wagoning on me, you're the only one that appears to have given it a lot of thought. It's why I have you as a (misguided) Town read. Step back away from it and re-evaluate the case, talk it over with Fugi. Fugi didn't come in until a few days after that initial period, and didn't get misled by that initial kerfuffle.

The same thing has happened, in reverse, with C-Worl. Certain vocal people decided early on that he was newbtown, and haven't wavered since.
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Post Post #825 (isolation #98) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:13 am

Post by Pine »

L-1, and that's the only thing you have to say? Really? Nothing else?
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Post Post #830 (isolation #99) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:33 am

Post by Pine »

Well, that's hammer, I guess. Short consultation.
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Post Post #832 (isolation #100) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:37 am

Post by Pine »

Oh...yeah, I just simply failed at image interpretation.
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Post Post #837 (isolation #101) » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:40 pm

Post by Pine »

Every single quote of Wraith's is out of context and/or misrepresented. Wraith is trying to set up Wraith vs Pine lynch for D3.

I'll take it apart D3, twilight now.
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Post Post #868 (isolation #102) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:41 am

Post by Pine »

Wraith wrote:Pine is being framed. I drop my suspicions against him.

Vote: Calcifer
Oh hey! But you aren't.

VOTE: Wraith

Also, if you actually think I'm being framed, why would you vote for the only person who is putting it all on the line for me? You Cop softclaimed and contradicted said claim in one post.

Oh hey! Add a couple more softclaims in the subsequent posts. Flailing to stay alive.
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Post Post #872 (isolation #103) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:01 am

Post by Pine »

I'm not feeling a Romanus lynch. I said it before (I think) and I'll say it again: I think Rom vs. Silver is Town on Town tunnel vision at its worst. And you're sucking others in with reaching cases.
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Post Post #878 (isolation #104) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:11 am

Post by Pine »

silverbullet999 wrote:Pine,

who else is getting sucked in?
Everyone voting for Romanus. They're getting sucked into the Town vs. Town fight.

I thought that was reasonably obvious.

@Wraith: lolfail

@Calc: Like I said, I've got a strong Town read on Romanus. Look at Rom again without all the shit Silver has shoveled onto him.
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Post Post #881 (isolation #105) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:28 am

Post by Pine »

@Silver:
IceyCupcake wrote:
Vote: Romanus


Obv
Calcifer wrote:Romanus is on the scumlist
Wraith wrote:I could go against Romanus, too.
IceyCupcake wrote:I want EPM and Romanus DEAD.
Plus the avalanche of drivel you've shoveled against Rom.
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Post Post #884 (isolation #106) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:06 am

Post by Pine »

Split some more hairs, Silver. Your case on Romanus has gotten 4 other people suspicious of a Townie. He's done a few things that were slightly scummy, but your case has magnified those and minimized the larger number of pro-Town things he's done.

And yes. Like Calcifer, Icey, Hiraki, and half a dozen other cases in this thread alone, I defend my strong town reads.
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Post Post #887 (isolation #107) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:17 am

Post by Pine »

Oh hey! THB's going for two mislynches in a row!
silverbullet999 wrote:You seemed to miss the point of 4
pro-Town things he's done
Expand on this.
I thought about just saying "no" and reminding you that the burden of proof is on you, but what the hell. Sure. I'll do it in a little while when I have time to put up a wall. I don't at the moment.
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Post Post #889 (isolation #108) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:35 am

Post by Pine »

You two confuse the hell out of me.
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Post Post #893 (isolation #109) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:08 am

Post by Pine »

In all fairness to THB, I was getting ready to hammer too. And Hiraki is apparently broken in disbelief that Jerbs flipped Town. He really didn't help his case, there.
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Post Post #898 (isolation #110) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:06 pm

Post by Pine »

C-Worl wrote:
Vote: Pine


He
s highly condescending and hypocritical. Also, so many people have claimed him to be town that I generally want to lynch him just to see how he flips.
In other words,
Image
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Post Post #900 (isolation #111) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:10 pm

Post by Pine »

Crai moar, scum.
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Post Post #913 (isolation #112) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:39 pm

Post by Pine »

diddin wrote:
Pine wrote:Crai moar, scum.
*Implying C Worl is scum for complaining about you being a dick

Srsly though Cworl's vote is pretty crappy, but Pine's attacking him for the absolutely wrong reasons. Remind me again why pine is town plz.

Double Vote: Pine
I didn't imply C-Worl is scum for OMGUSing me. I put together a very comprehensive case against him a few pages back, and my opinion on his scumminess hasn't changed. RTFT.
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Post Post #914 (isolation #113) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:41 pm

Post by Pine »

Oops. Hit submit too soon.
silverbullet999 wrote:So.. Pine.... you said you'd state pro-town rom... I don't see that post yet... yet you posted...

did you forget or just realize there's no such thing as town rom?
I said I'd get to it. Putting together a wall is time-consuming, and I haven't had time this evening for more than quick posts.
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Post Post #916 (isolation #114) » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:22 pm

Post by Pine »

Dude, read the few posts of his before that. Yeah, it was sniping, yeah it was probably unfair. But C-Worl's been annoying the hell out of me all game.
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Post Post #920 (isolation #115) » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:43 am

Post by Pine »

I don't believe in bussing. With people jumping on every hint of pushing too hard as bussing, it's counter-productive in most cases, especially early on. Scum is better off just maintaining indifference to one another. At later stages, it can be useful to an extent, but I don't think we're in the late stages of the game. We're in the midgame.

Players with greater experience, mock away. I know at least one of you will think I'm the stupidest newbie on the site for that statement.
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Post Post #922 (isolation #116) » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:03 am

Post by Pine »

Busy, not lazy.

I have a chunk of time right now, though, so I'll waste a bunch of time pointing out what you should already have seen.
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Post Post #924 (isolation #117) » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:13 am

Post by Pine »

Constantly pointing crap like that out and whining about it is one small part of what makes me think that you're scum, trying to derail the conversation with petty personal crap.
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Post Post #930 (isolation #118) » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:03 pm

Post by Pine »

silverbullet999 wrote:
Busy, not lazy.
Hence the /

sooo where is the wall
If you re-read that, I think you'll find the answer.
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Post Post #933 (isolation #119) » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:37 pm

Post by Pine »

silverbullet999 wrote:
I have a chunk of time right now, though, so I'll waste a bunch of time pointing out what you should already have seen
And if you reread that you see ... well I guess we got a liar now.
A chunk of time I found a more productive use for. This isn't like the end of D1, where Hiraki was stalling and we were all holding off a hammer waiting for him. We've got plenty of time, and your tantrum for my reasoning is low-priority. Like I said, comprehensive replies like you're asking for are time consuming.

And framing all that as lying? Dude.
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Post Post #945 (isolation #120) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:15 am

Post by Pine »

WARNING: Upon review and tabulation of my reasoning, some of it is based upon opinion and some is based upon facts that I am aware of but you cannot verify beyond doubt.

Okay, Romanus' first post is #633.
I'll admit, right up front, that this is where I started liking Romanus as Town. First post and he defends a Townie getting wagoned on. Scum would have NO reason to do this. I can't even think of a good WIFOM reason. He just replaced in, it would be
seamless
to jump on my wagon. But he doesn't. He's got a level head, isn't affected by the tunnel vision that others in the thread have, and sees what I see on Parama. True, this turned out to be incorrect, but why waste time on a wagon that isn't going anywhere unless you actually agree with it?

Over the next page or so, he sets immediately into scumhunting, picking out what were (at the time) unpopular or under-analyzed targets, such as Jerbs and Wraith. Jerbs had been mentioned like, twice prior to that, and Wraith maybe once.
silverbullet999 wrote:VOTE: wraith
Romanus wrote:Silver, you have got to be shitting me. Seriously? That's it? I mean, I think he's scum, too, but why start that wagon with no commentary, no reasoning.

Of course, you don't need justification as just about everyone has made their suspicions of Wraith known.

Unvote


Vote: Silverbullet999


My vote will go back to Jerbs if and when we need a hammer, but for now, Silver has the most recent, most scummy post to date.
Romanus wrote:@ Silverbullet:

1) Your definition and mine of wagon are obviously different. But you obviously don't want anyone to follow your vote because you don't believe you are starting a wagon. Interesting.
2) I will never give details as to my reasoning, and certainly not with a wall. I gave what my reasoning was based on. Townies should want to make up their own mind.
3) There is more than one scum in this game. And putting you in the spotlight is the best use of my vote. And it worked, as this is the most content you have posted in a while.
4) I've answered all your questions, please answer mine.
Here's the clincher about why I think Silver is misguided regarding Romanus. Silver did something strange (though later justified,) and Romanus called him on it. The act of calling him on it was Pro-Town. Rom recognized something weird, and didn't let it slip past. This, however, was the seed of the Silver/Romanus feud.


From there out, the vast majority of Silver's posts and Romanus' posts have been directed at each other. For Romanus' part, almost the entirety of the remainder have been devoted to scumhunting. He hasn't committed any significant scumtells like wagonjumping, lying, OMGUSing (it took quite a while for him to even vote for Silver,) or getting panicked.

I'll reiterate my opinion: Silver vs. Romanus is a Town-on-Town brawl, and you're dragging each other into the mud. Silver just has a more established image as probTown, so most people are taking his side.
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Post Post #946 (isolation #121) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:19 am

Post by Pine »

Hey! That didn't actually take as long as I expected it would.

As for people jumping down my throat about delaying the wall, fucking deal with it. I had a busy weekend, and a lot of the posting I
did
manage was from my phone. And it's HARD to post in detail from a phone, let alone quote and search post archives.

Silver, you seem to zero in on something and when facts don't magically appear to support your questionable position, you take a hatchet to whatever seems most likely to produce results.

And C-Worl is just feeding off of it. The Wraith vote is more productive right now, though.
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Post Post #951 (isolation #122) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:03 am

Post by Pine »

@C-Worl 948: It would have been SO much easier for RomScum to just jump on the wagon. There was so much voting without reasons at that time, it wouldn't have been noticed. But you do have a bit of a point. Deciding which motive is correct is WIFOM, though I find my scenario more likely.
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Post Post #955 (isolation #123) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:43 am

Post by Pine »

A. Something strange: Voting for Wraith out of the blue without stating reasons. For the record, I was actually playing D1 and
I
forgot you had anything on Wraith in D1. Someone with 26-27 pages to catch up on missing it? Remarkably reasonable.
B. Romanus calls you on it: He said his scum reads (which you were not initially in) were based on voting patterns. Stands to reason he set aside those he wasn't interested in, and he missed the fact that it was consistent with D1.

Enough of me defending Romanus. I'm not so arrogant in my Town reads that I'll call him "confirmed," and some of the counter-points have some merit. I'd like to hear from Romanus regarding my interpretation of his actions.

PEdit: Icey, would you mind digging up [winger]'s actions for us? I've done enough archive binging for today, between this and other threads.
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Post Post #957 (isolation #124) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:53 am

Post by Pine »

Anything else? I know [winger] made it onto a low position on my list at one point, but I honestly don't remember why.
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Post Post #959 (isolation #125) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:05 am

Post by Pine »

Well yeah, but inconsistency is consistent with ultimately asking for a replacement.
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Post Post #962 (isolation #126) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:18 am

Post by Pine »

It was more or less true at the time.
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Post Post #965 (isolation #127) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:29 am

Post by Pine »

Post #941 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:29 am
(Last C-Worl post railing against me and my perceived condescending attitude)
Post #944 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:00 pm
(diddin's vote for C-Worl)

Care to try again, C-Worl?
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Post Post #968 (isolation #128) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:13 am

Post by Pine »

Post 941, dude. Read the posts you're responding to.
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Post Post #976 (isolation #129) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:43 am

Post by Pine »

@Rom: Care to comment on my appraisal of your motives?
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Post Post #979 (isolation #130) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:01 pm

Post by Pine »

Easiest, simplest reasons we haven't lynched Wraith:

1) Not everyone is onboard, though most people have some serious suspicions at least
2) How would a second day of quickhammering (in a row) be helpful to Town? We haven't gotten ANY scum yet, and giving up the opportunity to find Wraith's scumbuddies (and give them time to slip and reveal themselves) would be ludicrous.

For my part, your eagerness to speedlynch makes me think reason #2 just bore fruit.

HOS: EPM
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Post Post #987 (isolation #131) » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:01 pm

Post by Pine »

3 days plus a little over 5.5 hours, and 135 posts, totaling about four sentences from you. That's "enough"?
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Post Post #1015 (isolation #132) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:13 am

Post by Pine »

Ehhh...as much as I'm for the Wraith lynch, that actually makes sense, and is consistent with the softclaims and other not-a-VT tells. I'm willing to buy it with a grain of salt.

C-Worl, on the other hand, not so much. I've been ready to lynch him since near the end of D1, and if others are ready to see it too, let's do it. I don't buy the unpressured VT claim at all.

UNVOTE: Wraith
VOTE: C-Worl
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Post Post #1019 (isolation #133) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:13 am

Post by Pine »

Is it me you're calling a ship-jumper? Because I seem to recall C-Worl being at or near the top of my list for a long time, and making a pretty elaborate case for him D2.
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Post Post #1031 (isolation #134) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:31 pm

Post by Pine »

Claiming at L-5
does
sound newbTown. It plays in
perfectly
with C-Worl
abusing
the fact that a third or so of you dismiss all of his scum tells as newbishness.
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Post Post #1034 (isolation #135) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:36 pm

Post by Pine »

Hardly. I left your case alone for days until it was brought up by others.

Besides, I never said you weren't clever. Cleverness, brilliance, and experience are all mutually exclusive.
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Post Post #1035 (isolation #136) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:42 pm

Post by Pine »

If you want to see an example of
actual
tunnel vision, ISO Empking. Decided I was scum on page 6 using a very thin premise (trying too hard? Really?) and hasn't done practically anything else to advance the game except post once every two or three days to avoid prod.
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Post Post #1037 (isolation #137) » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:26 pm

Post by Pine »

The idea that you've thoroughly thought out every post in the game is laughable. My theory actually states the opposite: that you make occasional calculated and clever newb mistakes, in order to give you the license not to carefully plan each post.
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Post Post #1043 (isolation #138) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:47 am

Post by Pine »

The WIFOM nuggets sprinkled liberally throughout nhammen's big post are not to my liking. At all.

Also, C-Worl's last post seems to be suggesting that I'm not scum because the D2 wagon was an effort to bus...which is it, C-Worl? Or are you mixing up your scum motives and your Town cover-story motives?
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Post Post #1047 (isolation #139) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:37 am

Post by Pine »

Romanus is Town. nhammen hasn't gotten much attention, and his posts seem very...agenda-driven. Looks like the C-Worl train is stalling again. Wish you people would make up your mind about him.

UNVOTE: C-Worl One of these days you'll make a slip big enough to get through even the thick skulls of the people who insist on your innocence.
VOTE: nhammen
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Post Post #1049 (isolation #140) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:44 am

Post by Pine »

You seem to have made a Freudian slip in 1042. I wasn't
asking
anything, the question was rhetorical.
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Post Post #1050 (isolation #141) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:46 am

Post by Pine »

EBWOP: *"Freudian slip" is the wrong term for it. But re-read 1042 and see the contradiction. C-Worl is mixing up his stories.
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Post Post #1060 (isolation #142) » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:30 pm

Post by Pine »

Careful, EPM. Silver tends to throw tantrums if you don't immediately produce.
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Post Post #1078 (isolation #143) » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:25 am

Post by Pine »

It looks very much to me like Romanus or EPM are our lynches for today. Neither are my top suspects, but admittedly, I may be suffering from a bit of tunnel vision. I have a strong Town read on Romanus, and a growing scumspicion of EPM. Between the two, it's a no-brainer.

UNVOTE: C-Worl
VOTE: evilpacman18
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Post Post #1079 (isolation #144) » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:26 am

Post by Pine »

:up: L-1

I'd like a claim before anyone hammers
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Post Post #1088 (isolation #145) » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:39 am

Post by Pine »

I forgot about that vote on nhammen. You have a point?

And yeah, I saw Calc claim hammer and went "WTF?"

Still wanted a claim out of EPM, but I guess we're going to find out now.
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Post Post #1110 (isolation #146) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:00 pm

Post by Pine »

:up: Very scummy post

Massclaim is a good idea, C-Worl has a point, though. This looks like an extremely VT-heavy game, so VT fakeclaims are extremely believable. I'd claim VT regardless of role or alignment. Believable if scum and to protect a scarce Town PR if I had one.
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Post Post #1114 (isolation #147) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:51 pm

Post by Pine »

I'm not sure I follow the question, IC. If that was a question.
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Post Post #1120 (isolation #148) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:26 pm

Post by Pine »

I've read all of the arguments for C-Worl as newbTown, and I find them lacking. I don't think he's
ever
gotten a fair shake. Furthermore, the way he is playing is exactly how I'd play as newbScum. Most of what he's done has been taken for granted or glossed over because of his newness.

Also, I just realized that 1110 was a bit contradictory. My opinion on massclaiming evolved as I was posting. MCing is usually a good idea, but I'm not sure how useful it'd be in this case. It seems more likely to get PRs killed than out scum.
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Post Post #1130 (isolation #149) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:02 pm

Post by Pine »

I check my PMs, though I'm not really a fan of how this site handles them. Maybe it's just the skin I'm using. I do sometimes miss them, as they don't pop up first as they do elsewhere.

IceyCupcake is on crack, it looks like, not sure what his "muffin" thing is about, though I noticed the mod mistake a long time ago. I went back over my personal notes on his list, and I don't have scum reads on any of them. The only one I can justify is Hiraki. He's been sitting at a marginal Town read for a long time after my reversal on him during D2.

More when it isn't 2AM. I need to not post tired.
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Post Post #1134 (isolation #150) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:09 pm

Post by Pine »

I'm not sure where you get the idea that scum have a roleblocker.
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Post Post #1136 (isolation #151) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:10 pm

Post by Pine »

STOP POSTING YOU'RE HEMORRHAGING INFORMATION.
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Post Post #1137 (isolation #152) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:11 pm

Post by Pine »

You're also completely missing hints, no matter how subtle or obvious they are. FFS.
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Post Post #1139 (isolation #153) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:31 pm

Post by Pine »

Oh for fuck's sake. Neighborhood could have stayed hidden a while longer had you not jumped to a roleblock conclusion. Still, I'd rather keep
some
of Calc's extensive walls to ourselves for a while. With multiple people having access to it, there's no reason to inform scum where and how we're onto them until we're ready to close the case. If the neighborhood gets whittled down, an infodump would be warranted so that information isn't lost. Until then, let the more marginal cases keep building on themselves.

VOTE: Hiraki

I gave him a pass early in D2 (explained back then) and have not given him another hard look since then. The Mastin VCA case is very strong.
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Post Post #1143 (isolation #154) » Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:55 pm

Post by Pine »

:up: @Neighbors: C-Worl plays the newbie card ("Derp, I don't recognize a semi-common role") and discredits detractors in one go. Mastin's VCA indicated C-Worl-scum. That wool over your eyes? Remove it.

Neighborizer
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Post Post #1151 (isolation #155) » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:39 am

Post by Pine »

Neighborizer doesn't usually change alignment. It's similar to, but not identical to, the Mason Recruiter. IceyCupcake has expressed suspicion at times of other people in the Neighborhood, so I'm guessing he was told specifically that it doesn't alter alignment.

The "mod error" is a misnomer. Slaxx didn't immediately post that the recruitment had succeeded (as he apparently had in earlier instances of its use,) and I missed the PM and was trying to be subtle after that, which Icey assumed meant that he'd gotten roleblocked. Icey jumping to conclusions = "mod error."
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Post Post #1156 (isolation #156) » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:41 am

Post by Pine »

...Except for the fact that the behavior of both claimants, before AND after claim, matches the claim exactly. Not to mention the fact that the Neighborizer claim is confirmed by the other neighbors, which scum would NEVER do. If a fakeclaimed Neighborizer gets killed for any reason, then everyone who confirmed the Neighborizer is auto-scum. Neighborizer is one of the worst fakeclaims.
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Post Post #1160 (isolation #157) » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:59 am

Post by Pine »

Just himself. Recruited Calc N1, THB N2, me N3
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Post Post #1170 (isolation #158) » Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:50 am

Post by Pine »

You really are determined to read every post as narrow as you can, aren't you? Slaxx's post doesn't actually confirm the presence of a Neighborizer, it clarifies how a Neighborizer works in his game.

The fact that three of us are all saying the same thing, and have access to pages and pages of Calc's stuff that wasn't posted here confirms it. Pull your head out of your ass, C-Worl.
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Post Post #1173 (isolation #159) » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:26 pm

Post by Pine »

We haven't posted it for stated reasons, such as not giving the reads away until they're ready to be used, plus the fact that it's pages and pages of material. This QT puts all others to shame.

Still not a fan of the Rom wagon, neighbors disagree. Hiraki wagon gogogo.
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Post Post #1175 (isolation #160) » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:39 pm

Post by Pine »

Well, there's really no point in hiding my role anymore. Neighborized VT.
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Post Post #1177 (isolation #161) » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:43 pm

Post by Pine »

Damn, I just looked up what a "Popcorn" massclaim is. Didn't realize it was a different style.
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Post Post #1179 (isolation #162) » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:56 pm

Post by Pine »

Hirakichu, I choose you!
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Post Post #1180 (isolation #163) » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:57 pm

Post by Pine »

:up: Inspired by diddin's avatar.
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Post Post #1192 (isolation #164) » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:12 am

Post by Pine »

TwoHeadedBoy wrote:Image

Let's have Empking claim next.

~Pie
WTF is that?
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Post Post #1195 (isolation #165) » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:17 am

Post by Pine »

Romanus may be flaking, he has flaked in at least one other game. I suggest Emp pick someone else for now.
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Post Post #1199 (isolation #166) » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:39 am

Post by Pine »

Not sure if they're due prods just yet, but nhammen, ConfidAnon, and Eomanus all haven't posted since D4 started
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Post Post #1239 (isolation #167) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:12 am

Post by Pine »

What the hell are you talking about, Emp? You're really starting to shake my town read. I know explanation isn't your thing, but I'd like one. Speak slowly and use little words.
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Post Post #1242 (isolation #168) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:42 am

Post by Pine »

Empking, are you referring to his vote on you based off of VCA?

The VCA narrows it down to a few candidates, some of whom can be eliminated for various reasons, some disputable. If I understand THB's intentions correctly, you were the only one that didn't get eliminated for some reason or another, and THB removed themselves from consideration because they've seen their role PM and hence know for sure. VCAs don't transfer to others unless the other person agrees on the assessment of all the variables.

Gotta stop posting from phone. Hard to make a cogent analysis.
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Post Post #1250 (isolation #169) » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:03 am

Post by Pine »

@THB: How is agreeing with you buddying?

Empking is rapidly dropping from a neutral-Town to neutral-scum read. And sinking with every post.
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Post Post #1259 (isolation #170) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:14 am

Post by Pine »

I would like to again register suspicion of Hiraki, for reasons already stated. Further, he seems to be the definition of an active lurker in this thread, while I know for a fact he is being active elsewhere on site.
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Post Post #1261 (isolation #171) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:56 am

Post by Pine »

What the hell are you talking about nothing in that post is WIFOM. Hiraki has been lurky but posting elsewhere, and I've already stated my reasons for suspecting him. He hasn't said much since D4 started outside the massclaim.
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Post Post #1263 (isolation #172) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:04 am

Post by Pine »

Active lurking was a new and minor reason. My major reasons are elsewhere.
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Post Post #1264 (isolation #173) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:05 am

Post by Pine »

And it still doesn't make any of that WIFOM. But you're probably just mis-using the term rather than intentionally mis-labeling.
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Post Post #1266 (isolation #174) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:36 am

Post by Pine »

That's a huge stretch. Irrelevant. Suspicion @ Hiraki. Not for lurking, as diddin seems to think pro-Town reasons exist for lurking.
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Post Post #1269 (isolation #175) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:47 pm

Post by Pine »

C-Worl wrote:
diddin wrote:They do. Town PRs might lurk to avoid the Night Kill. Likewise Scum can easily be the most active players in a game.
QFT
You know you have the second greatest number of posts, and the most posts devoid of content, right?
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Post Post #1271 (isolation #176) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:16 pm

Post by Pine »

That said, I'm the top poster, so...yeah. Whatever that does or does not mean.

And yeah. diddin's last few posts have made me re-consider him as "confirmed Town". I've never heard of doublevoting scum, but I'm starting to suspect him. Technically, by Normal game parameters, it's legal.
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Post Post #1272 (isolation #177) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:16 pm

Post by Pine »

Oh. Promised to advertise for this game in sign-ups. Looks fun, need a couple more people.
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Post Post #1281 (isolation #178) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:17 pm

Post by Pine »

TwoHeadedBoy wrote:C-Worl actually has a point.
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Post Post #1284 (isolation #179) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:19 pm

Post by Pine »

Like who, diddin?
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Post Post #1290 (isolation #180) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:32 pm

Post by Pine »

@diddin-Well honestly, how would you play doublevoting scum? I'd hold back at first, acting like a Town PR trying to avoid the NK. Then I'd use it to out myself and let people assume I was a confirmed Townie for the rest of the game. The fact that you're still alive is a tad suspicious in itself, but that strays into (actual) WIFOM and I'd rather not get into it.
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Post Post #1294 (isolation #181) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:50 pm

Post by Pine »

I'm very excited for that setup, but jindori alone is making me reconsider a bit.
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Post Post #1296 (isolation #182) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:10 pm

Post by Pine »

You aren't hated. I actually think I'd like you if I found a game you weren't scum in.
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Post Post #1299 (isolation #183) » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:25 pm

Post by Pine »

^ Weak and hard to believe.
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Post Post #1310 (isolation #184) » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:21 pm

Post by Pine »

Funny you mentioned Mastin's scumhunting, diddin. The last list he had contained two strong scumreads: Hiraki and Romanus. And after that list, he began expressing increased suspicion of you and Empking. Nacho actually found a game with a scum doublevoter.
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Post Post #1313 (isolation #185) » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:09 pm

Post by Pine »

All that means, C-Worl, is that the Mafia is competent. And our protective Town PR (if there actually is one,) hasn't been.

That said, I'm not sold on those three being infallible, as there are some significant differences in their reads.
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Post Post #1320 (isolation #186) » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:17 pm

Post by Pine »

Scum doublevoter.

Granted, it's a hyper-powered superhero game, but yeah.
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Post Post #1322 (isolation #187) » Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:28 pm

Post by Pine »

Pfft. Nacho was the one who provided it as an example.

Meh. I don't actually think diddin's scum. Not entirely sure why we've wasted time on this. I feel like I've been trying to justify an off-hand comment.
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Post Post #1330 (isolation #188) » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:25 pm

Post by Pine »

Pfft. I'm MORE active when scum.

But yeah. I get a big lurkscum vibe. Hiraki for active lurking and Emp for less active lurking.
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Post Post #1347 (isolation #189) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:11 am

Post by Pine »

Hiraki wrote:
Nhammen wrote:Hiraki is an expert user of the WIFOM. Why are you so concerned over the possibility of people seeing this as scum v scum?
Because people think I am scum.

Also, Pine. I've only been lurking to an extent because I'm in Apokragekill mode.
Hiraki wrote:EWBOP: Fuck. I did it again. This is killing me. After re-reading, I could really like some dead Pine scum. His last few posts show this.
Is anyone buying this as something other than scum?
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Post Post #1355 (isolation #190) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:37 am

Post by Pine »

TwoHeadedBoy wrote:Pine also claimed scum in-thread like I pointed out but it seems I'm beating a dead horse, so.
...I did?

I'm not sold on Anti yet. I'm just not following Icey's logic here. Maybe instead of capslock-gasming, you could explain the interpretation?
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Post Post #1361 (isolation #191) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:58 am

Post by Pine »

Fugi, you're starting to get infected by your partner's tunnel vision. I just didn't get it the first time. Ice's last post clarified his position just fine for me.

But if you're looking for a soft defender, look two posts above mine.

Lynches on Empking, Antihero, or Hiraki are all good.
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Post Post #1372 (isolation #192) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:13 am

Post by Pine »

I'm convinced that Anti is the lynch for today. When he flips scum, it'll hopefully give us some clues to go on.
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Post Post #1373 (isolation #193) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:13 am

Post by Pine »

Forgot:
UNVOTE: Hiraki
VOTE: Antihero
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Post Post #1383 (isolation #194) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:27 am

Post by Pine »

Hiraki wrote:
Pine wrote:Is anyone buying this as something other than scum?
After we kill Anti, I want you dead next. There's no way you're getting away with this.
I notice you've said practically nothing against me until I read Mastin's case against you, agree with it, and start voting for you. Your sudden and intense Pine-hatred is pure OMGUS and nervous scum speaking.
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Post Post #1396 (isolation #195) » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:47 am

Post by Pine »

He's suggesting that Icey's Neighborizer role is in the 'Cop' genus.
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Post Post #1467 (isolation #196) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:18 am

Post by Pine »

Slaxx wrote:You have inspired me to run meme mafia, congrats. Or has it been done?
/pre-in

Welcome to the game, Zdenek.

Not much else interesting happened overnight, except that C-Worl's "oh I didn't realize we were waiting" L-1 vote of Antihero was a scum move. His explanation following it exemplifies the read I've had of him hiding his scumminess behind his newbishness.

And as always, THB's multiple personality disorder makes me lol.
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Post Post #1470 (isolation #197) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:29 am

Post by Pine »

I think I've found a replacement for ConfidAnon. Don't want to jinx it by announcing who yet though. He's reading the thread and going to get back to me.
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Post Post #1474 (isolation #198) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:25 am

Post by Pine »

Oh hey! I was useful!

Hoppster, when you get this far, you're up for massclaim.
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Post Post #1482 (isolation #199) » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:51 pm

Post by Pine »

@Zdenek: I previously had a (very unpopular) town read on Romanus. The avalanche of arguments against him have recently begun to shake that confidence.

I'd like your opinion on both of your predecessors' actions.
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