There Will Be Bloodshed (Game Over)

[Empking]

Vote; Friend

- Trying to get C-Worl to have an avvatar. Not completely random.

[Empking]

You both have Friend in your sights already, but aren't providing any reasons. Please do so.

My reasoning was given. Friend is trying to look town.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; Pine

- Yeah its distinctly scum trying too hard.

FoS: C-Worl

- Too many fluff posts.

FoS; [winger]

- His last post.

[Empking]

I'll admit that for now.

1.pine
2.cworl
3. [winger]

in no particular order

Those reads are almost suspiciously good.

[Empking]

Empking expand.

Your reads are exactly the same (and in the same order) as mine. Just wierd.

[Empking]

FoS: Silver

- I see the logic in his last post but it seems wierd that all the other weren't worthy of a vote but Wraith was.

[Empking]

^^

Good posting.

Wagon me for a while if you're bored, people. EmpKing is always up for that.

I have to admit that a wagon on you might be needed to make your attitude a bit more productive.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: C-Worl

C-Worl's bending over voting Pine pushed him over Pine for me.

[Empking]

Yeah, because I'm the one that got pissed that people suddenly started changing their votes just because Mastah Calcifer said so, that makes me scum. Honestly, you people are sheep.

Says the king of sheep himself. "Ooh we're bandwagoning Pine? I'm up for that." "Wait we're not doing that? Better get off this wagon ASAP."

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Pine

[Empking]

I'm not trying to boss everybody around because Pine and Friend are fine wagons. I don't have any need to boss people around.

[Empking]

unvote vote Friend

Lynch all Liars - he's not my Friend this game.
Also I agree with Icey on Emp, but I'm still too lazy to post anything of substance on the matter.

Parama

The last game we were in together. The only posts I made were (to paraphrase) "Yeah what Parama says." That doesn't seem like bossing people around to me.

[Empking]

Well, I'm not involved in any of the arguments, and I'd rather move on to investigating others. I'll grant that Friend is the scummiest at this point, but there's plenty of other things to do. Ignoring that and speed-lynching just gives scum a free pass. To do what you're suggesting they'd have to lurk

successfully

Seriously, Calcifer, this guy is town?

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; Diddin

I can definitely go with this. (Especially due to my new town read on Friend.)

[Empking]

"To many people"?

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Pine

[Empking]

What OMGUS? I don't know that you ever voted for me, and you certainly weren't just there. I'm voting for you because of the elaborate and well-established case against you. I just wanted to use the extra time granted to us to hunt your scumbuddies, like Parama. But sure, if you insist on falling on your sword sooner rather than later, fine.

OMGUS doesn't have to be based on votes, only, you know...

And silver, you can look through my posts. It's there. It'll be like a little game!!

Friend, the question silver's referring to is why you found those two lines of Wraith scummy. And I've looked through your posts, and you've never answered that question. Could you do so now?

My goodness. I don't knoe about you but I for one won't be giving Calcifer's reads a second thought after reading this travesty. In fact.

Unvote

Vote: Pine

[Empking]

What OMGUS? I don't know that you ever voted for me, and you certainly weren't just there. I'm voting for you because of the elaborate and well-established case against you. I just wanted to use the extra time granted to us to hunt your scumbuddies, like Parama. But sure, if you insist on falling on your sword sooner rather than later, fine.

OMGUS doesn't have to be based on votes, only, you know...

And silver, you can look through my posts. It's there. It'll be like a little game!!

Friend, the question silver's referring to is why you found those two lines of Wraith scummy. And I've looked through your posts, and you've never answered that question. Could you do so now?

My goodness. I don't knoe about you but I for one won't be giving Calcifer's reads a second thought after reading this travesty. In fact.

Unvote

Vote: Pine

Unvote

Vote: Pine

I was making a joke.

[Empking]

^Wraith is scum.

+1

[Empking]

Scum want Pine to live. Scum want Pine to live.

[Empking]

I really don't even remember what this game's about anymore. Lemme reread for the next 6 weeks.

Pine is scum. There saved you a bit of time.

Vote Pine

[Empking]

Cal; What does that voting pattern suggest? Why does it suggest that?

[Empking]

Cal; What does that voting pattern suggest? Why does it suggest that?

Also: Confidence is inversely proportional with the amount of information you have.

[Empking]

FOS; Calc

- Don't by the confidence truth be told.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Jerbs

- The lack of Pine death is going to doom us all, BTW.

[Empking]

Vote; Pine

- That's not moving. See you in 72 hours.

[Empking]

Pine is being framed. I drop my suspicions against him.

Vote: Calcifer

Oh hey! But you aren't.

VOTE: Wraith

Also, if you actually think I'm being framed, why would you vote for the only person who is putting it all on the line for me?

You Cop softclaimed and contradicted said claim in one post.

Oh hey! Add a couple more softclaims in the subsequent posts. Flailing to stay alive.

Short answer: buddying scum

Long Answer: Calcifer softclaimed a PR D1 when he declared you confirmed town. If I were scum, I would have killed Calcifer that first night, no question. Calcifer was not targeted and is still alive, before he refuted his softclaim. So, first evidence: He's buddying you, who is being framed as scum by the scumteam. When you flip town he'll go "Totally called it guys. Gimme townpoints." Second evidence: He softclaimed PR and is still alive. Third evidence: He lied about being a PR.

Simple Answer: I'm not the Cop. There, I solved it for you.

This theory is blown to bits by the simple fact that:

this game was a day start.

Because as we're all aware masons do not exist.

[Empking]

I don't think that Empking was saying that Pine and Wraith could be Masons. I think he was saying that scum might think that Pine and Calcifer were Masons, and so would have killed Calcifer, unless one of them were scum. Or at least, I was assuming that that is what he was saying.

Yeah.

[Empking]

C-Worl's probably new unlike the shameless ship-jumper (Actually he's not (to be completely honest about it) being shameless but trying to pretend to be reasonable.)

[Empking]

I'd almost expect the Pine wagon to consist soley of town. He's not an easy lynch and the fact that Calc refuses to let him be lynched distracts the town. And that's on the off chance he's town.

[Empking]

-EMP

I'd almost expect the Pine wagon to consist soley of town.

coincidentally

Pine (2): Empking, TwoHeadedBoy

It was meant to be a response to Calcifer's post about using Vote Count analysis to decide EPM was scum.

[Empking]

This thread was locked before right?

[Empking]

I can support mass claim and I can also support the case on Rom.

Vote: Rom

[Empking]

Mod: Would neighbour recruits be declared as such upon death?

[Empking]

VT

Rom

[Empking]

SilverBullet

[Empking]

Seriously, six VT claims? I'm speculating at least two of them are lying.

Ssshhhh

[Empking]

Not-Fugi: Are you positive that the logic that proves you to be scum is unshakable?

And I said it before and I'll say it again. Only town would vote Pine, Calcifer held too much power for it to be anything but a futile, dangerous lynch that benefits scum very little.

[Empking]

Yep, 95.7% positive. (It's not based solely off that single wagon.)

~Fugi

You're not Not-Fugi, you're Fugi! I want the other head.

[Empking]

Not-Fugi: Are you positive that the logic that proves you to be scum is unshakable?

And I said it before and I'll say it again. Only town would vote Pine, Calcifer held too much power for it to be anything but a futile, dangerous lynch that benefits scum very little.

Did you see how quickly the Pine wagon built up? There's no way that there wasn't scum on that wagon.

Use your brain. Who is scum on that wagon? If its just me then you forgot that you would still be going "Did you see how quickly the Pine wagon built up? There's no way that there wasn't scum on that wagon." even if I wasn't on it.

[Empking]

Okay, here's my speculation for the remaining setup:

3 scum goons
1 scum roleblocker
1 scum godfather/some other weak scum PR
3 town PRs that have already claimed
1 weak investigative role (ie Watcher or something)
1 other town PR
3 VTs

Wraith: Why are you telling scum what to claim?

Vote: THB

- If Pie is posiotive he's scum then there's not much to talk about.

[Empking]

Who else is unclaimed. I'd say anyone left can claim just so we have more to work with.

Be patient. We have about 11 days until deadline. Let's keep going in order.

Vote: THB

- If Pie is posiotive he's scum then there's not much to talk about.

You're an idiot. And nice OMGUS, bro.

~Fugi

Its not OMGUS if there's a reason. The two of you have mutually claimed scum. That's as good a reason as you'll come across.

[Empking]

Everybody:

There are two possibilities: THB thinks that people playing like THB are definitely ("positive") scum. This means THB is scum (and he thinks I'm a traitor and looking for bussing points.)
THB is lying. This means he's scum. Its that simple.

[Empking]

3) You're scum.

No that's part of 1. (Yeah I can't remember why I decided I had to be a traitor.)

Pine: THB supposedly thinks that [actions THB has done] makes one 100% scum. If he is not scum then he can't possibly believe that (Yes?). So he's either scum or he doesn't believe it (Yes?) If he doesn't believe it then why did he say it? Because he's scum. What bit don't you get

[Empking]

Empking, are you referring to his vote on you based off of VCA?

The VCA narrows it down to a few candidates, some of whom can be eliminated for various reasons, some disputable. If I understand THB's intentions correctly, you were the only one that didn't get eliminated for some reason or another, and THB removed themselves from consideration because they've seen their role PM and hence know for sure. VCAs don't transfer to others unless the other person agrees on the assessment of all the variables.

Gotta stop posting from phone. Hard to make a cogent analysis.

I don't think I agree but therre's an easy way to find out:

THB: Have you ruled out Romanus from contention of being scum?

[Empking]

THB: One word: "Positive". You're positive I'm scummy for things that you yourself are guilty of.

[Empking]

Can we wait for the remaining twits to claim before the finger pointing starts?

Why the change of heart? (You were perfectly happy finger pointing before.)

[Empking]

Emp: No, I'm positive you're scum for doing some of the things we've done PLUS some other things we haven't done. You seem to be so focused on the fact that we're finding you scummy for something we've also done that you're ignoring the scummy things that you've done that we haven't.

Like being second on a Pine wagon. Oh waitb that can't be it. What scummy thing did I do and not you?

Mainly because you're the one talking.

And you're scum.

We've had like not-EmpKing for four days, a day of you being irritatingly wrong isn't gonna convince me that you're town.

Can we wait for the remaining twits to claim before the finger pointing starts?

May I ask why you're being deliberately anti-town?

(Seriously is it too much to ask that at least one other player (even before we get to scumhunting) not needing another round in the newbie queue. Wraith telling scum what to claim was bad enough, then THB and C-Worl decided that half-way through a Massclaim was the best time to get out of the woodwork without you playing like this.)

[Empking]

Emp: No, I'm positive you're scum for doing some of the things we've done PLUS some other things we haven't done. You seem to be so focused on the fact that we're finding you scummy for something we've also done that you're ignoring the scummy things that you've done that we haven't.

Like being second on a Pine wagon. Oh waitb that can't be it. What scummy thing did I do and not you?

Why did you answer your own question and then dismiss it as though that wasn't it?

Clever (if it worked), but I'm not going to let you slide that easy.

Unless you want to argue that my vote belonging to scum would cause the Day 2 wagon to speed up (compared to if my vote was town) then the fasct that you were also the second vote on a Pine wagon is a very real factor.

If you want reasons other than that Pine vote with the 6 person wagon then I also don't like the safe"ish" Pine vote Day 1,

The competing wagon that had every chance of going through is now a "safe"ish"" vote now? I guess with VCA anything goes.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: Hikari

1278 sounds like an admitance of bussing. (Or rather annoyance when it didn't seem to work.)

[Empking]

I would like to point out that Nhammen is saying that he agrees with THB's VCA but has decided that that means he's not going after Romanus. That's somebody looking or an excuse to not bus his buddy.

[Empking]

Yeah Icey is probanly right on this point (Though when thinking about it I'm not sure if outting yourself to help town is readily apparent as the best move.) His claim does seem like the classic scum claim in other respects.

Unvote

Vote; Anti

[Empking]

See you really can't lynch somebody for not realizing that plan (which TBH I'm not so sure is flawless due to a risk of Counterclaim.)

What's the downside of a hider claiming to save a townie? The scum might shoot into scummy mislynches hoping to hit the hider?

That quote doesn't seem to fit in with the latest plan.

[Empking]

I agree that lynching anti based on the fact that he's failtown is stupid as fuck, even if he deserves it. Our vote is NOT under the premise that he's town that failed, our vote is on anti because he's scum. Grey's motivations for the vote feel a bit sketchy, but I don't think looking into it that much is worthwhile because his claim and actions still read super town to me.

~Fugi

I agree with this completely.

[Empking]

See you really can't lynch somebody for not realizing that plan (which TBH I'm not so sure is flawless due to a risk of Counterclaim.)

What's the downside of a hider claiming to save a townie? The scum might shoot into scummy mislynches hoping to hit the hider?

That quote doesn't seem to fit in with the latest plan.

I've executed that plan. It's fairly fucking flawless as long as moderators are smart and keep not putting multiple alignment-confirmation roles in normals.

That's GOOD hider play.
Mediocre hider play is you just claim hider. It's also the right play if you're not willing to run the gambit (which, to be fair, has its share of risks).
bad hider play is you hide behind obvtown that you hope won't be nked to become faux-bulletproof.

Have yo ever seen (not executed but seen) a player play like that? I know that I'll play a Hider like that in the future but I'm not sure I would have played a Hider like that in the past. The convenience issue is a much bigger one in my mind.

[Empking]

[redacted] - Will discuss later.

I fakeclaim a lot as town, tbh. Offhand, Sherlock Holmes has finished. BUT ANYWAY yeah.

Yes I think that's the problem. I don't think you can generalise from yourself to Antihero in this respect.

[Empking]

Yeah, but he can claim something.

?

That claim was raw fucking scum.

I concur.

[Empking]

WE WAIT UNTIL COUNTERCLAIMS. If there is a CC, Anti is scum. Or just an AWFUL cop.

If Anti was a Cop I'd have expected him to be on the Pine wagon in order to keep his town results alive. (Plus its still ridiculously convenient.)

[Empking]

WE WAIT UNTIL COUNTERCLAIMS. If there is a CC, Anti is scum. Or just an AWFUL cop.

If Anti was a Cop I'd have expected him to be on the Pine wagon in order to keep his town results alive. (Plus its still ridiculously convenient.)

^scum. I didn't think Pine was scum, so I'm wasn't jumping on his wagon.

But you were OK with Jerb's lynch

[Empking]

Well, no, but I couldn't make that big of a 180 without screaming "I HAVE EXTRA INFO!"

Not really.

[Empking]

2 Cops isn't making much sense to me.

Can we agree at least one of them is probable scum?

Who's the second Cop?

[Empking]

Vote: Hikari

- I'd like to remind everyone that Mastin had a town read on me wheras Grey was certain on Anti's guilt and Pine had half the townies in the game voting for his lynch.

[Empking]

EmpKing - Mastin, weak townread, Nacho, scumread, me, scumread.

Grey: Mastin wanted me lynched?

[Empking]

At the least post a case on emp

Look back one day.

~Fugi

Isn't your main reason for voting me because he don't like having a list of seven green names? That's not really a case.

[Empking]

At the least post a case on emp

Look back one day.

~Fugi

Isn't your main reason for voting me because he don't like having a list of seven green names?

No.

~Fugi

Oh so it that second or something? What's your top reason?

[Empking]

It smells to me that a scumbag is trying a last-ditch attempt to save his buddy

Who is the scumbag and who is the buddy?

[Empking]

It smells to me that a scumbag is trying a last-ditch attempt to save his buddy

Who is the scumbag and who is the buddy?

It works whatever slot you put your's and Zdenek's names in. I make a big WoT about how you and your buddies are scum and

that's

all you have to say about it?

How was Zdenek making a last ditch attempt to save me? And how did I attempt to save Zdenek (surely the best way would be to self-vote?)?

In all honesty I think your reads are in the better half (not as good as mine but still reasonable.)

[Empking]

I could have sworn one of you was voting Hiraki right now

So? Seriously so?

[Empking]

So EmpKing isn't even BOTHERING to pretend he's town anymore, he's trying to WIFOM us about his buddies while he sinks under the ocean.

How so?

[Empking]

PS: Emp, failing to accurately defend yourself like you did in your last post is not a TOWN move. At this point, if you're town, then you know you're town, then you know your lynch would be bad for town. YOU NEED TO DEFEND YOURSELF IF YOU'RE TOWN.

You have 24 hours to at least try or I will vote you.

Grey: You're scum.
Pine: You're scum.
THB: My magical fetish says you must be scum. (Which is what his VCA amounts to)
Everyone else: I'm scum and you're not.

What can I defend myself with? There's no argument (other than THB's fetish which I think we can all agree is really stupid) for why I'm scum.

[Empking]

Provide a quote where I called the neighbourhood scum?

[Empking]

OK you thought I was calling those players those things and yet you considered finding THB, Pine asnd Grey scum more voteworthy than actually claiming scum? That doesn't seem very believable.