There Will Be Bloodshed (Game Over)

[C-Worl]

^ Once again.

[diddin]

I'll waste a bunch of time pointing out what you should already have seen.

See this is the kind of condescending attitude that makes me sick of you.

Constantly pointing crap like that out and whining about it is one small part of what makes me think that you're scum, trying to derail the conversation with petty personal crap.

^ Once again.

[diddin]

I changed my mind. EPM dies tomorrow.

Guess who died last night!

FoS EPM

[TwoHeadedBoy]

I changed my mind. EPM dies tomorrow.

Guess who died last night!

FoS EPM

~Fugi

[silverbullet999]

-Pine

Busy, not lazy.

Hence the /

sooo where is the wall

[Pine]

Busy, not lazy.

Hence the /

sooo where is the wall

If you re-read that, I think you'll find the answer.

[silverbullet999]

I have a chunk of time right now, though, so I'll waste a bunch of time pointing out what you should already have seen

And if you reread that you see ... well I guess we got a liar now.

[nhammen]

WARNING! Incoming End of D2 Wall incoming:


@Pine 733: Good case on C-worl, except you mention the use of newb defense too often, and I do not believe that he has been using a newb defense. You also forgot to add the fact that c-worl has been sheeping frequently to your list of scumtells.

Why is nobody mentioning Wraith?

Why is nobody mentioning EPM? Oh wait! You are both getting mentioned.
Seriously, EPM, if this is the best content you can produce, you really need to try harder.

Hmm, I can see now why Wraith was deflecting attention. EPM pointed at Wraith, so Wraith deflects to the dead issue of Hiraki's flip. But what was EPM deflecting onto Wraith? My suspicion of C-Worl, or the growing Jerbs wagon?

I don't think this was Wraith deflecting. I think that EPM was prod-dodging by producing "content" rather than trying to deflect from something.

@silver 752: Congratulations! You have found more contradictions from Romanus. Just like the ones that Parama found.

@Pine, That wall was a humorous read.

@Everyone, why exactly is Jerbs scum again?

@Calcifer, (mainly Mastin) I honestly don't care about your Pine read. I just want to know why you suddenly had a huge switch of "reads" during the middle of Day 1.

@Pine, Also, if I were scum I would have jumped on your wagon the second I got on. I legitimately don't think you're scum. Although, Calcifer's defense of you makes my "Calcifer is scum" theory more plausible.

I agree about wanting to know about Calcifer's reads. But the comment asking why Jerbs is scum was answered a few posts above that one. And your responses to Pine are full of WIFOM. Not that WIFOM is a scumtell, but it is completely useless. This means that the majority of this post was completely useless.

@Pine 755: You seem to be seeing deflection everywhere, and I don't think it is being used as much as you think it is.

-Rom
... are you serious dude? Do you want me to bolden it for you? Christ now I know how parama felt... Let's try this again

Yeah he has refused to see any case against him, even though there are multiple. He refuses to back down, even when he should.

C-Worl, Empking, ConfidAnon, diddin, diddin, Hiraki, Calcifer, Parama = 8.

9 To lynch.

Nice try, scum. Hammering someone else is kind of the ultimate deflection, isn't it?

Jerbs hasn't even posted in two full days. I don't think there was a single vote on him last time he checked in.

WHOA!! You NEVER point out a false hammer! What if Jerbs had believed that there was a hammer and his reaction told us his alignment? We would be much better off.

BTW: Jerbs is town.

This is true.

How did you know this? I am seriously thinking you are scum, because you are too confident about this.

How is Evil town? I think you is smoking the good stuff.

Last game I was in he was 10x as town as this. He was serial killer.

Which is basically town when you're NK immune, and we lynched him but good, but he was the strongest town read I had in the game. He contributed and did interesting things and thought hard. I think he's avoiding me and this.

Yes yes yes! So much truth here! I have read games that EPM was in, and maybe played with him (not sure) and I have never seen this lack of content.

I have big assignments due Thursday and Friday. I'm gonna call V/LA till Friday night or Saturday. I'll catch up then.

Yo!


End of the End of D2 Wall.

[Pine]

I have a chunk of time right now, though, so I'll waste a bunch of time pointing out what you should already have seen

And if you reread that you see ... well I guess we got a liar now.

A chunk of time I found a more productive use for. This isn't like the end of D1, where Hiraki was stalling and we were all holding off a hammer waiting for him. We've got plenty of time, and your tantrum for my reasoning is low-priority. Like I said, comprehensive replies like you're asking for are time consuming.

And framing all that as lying? Dude.

[Wraith]

Okay, I've been out of town all day, am still hung over, and I have to frantically study all day tomorrow. So it might be a little while before I catch up.

[silverbullet999]

Geez you are getting increasingly frustrating to deal with Pine.

I've asked you to state your case. You said you will. You said you will at a later time when you have some free time. Then you finally say you have some free time but apparently you got distracted and decided to do something else with it. I've been patient and have waited for you to present a case yet you still cease to do so while simultaneously still making posts.

You've said the case I've had on rom is bullshit yet you also claim my case is agreed with others and have them voting or wanting to vote for rom. You keep bitching that "rom is town, leave him alone the case presented by silver is a joke" yet don't supply any reasons... more or less demanding that we just simply trust your almighty vision and wisdom.

To be frank I'm getting sick of it, and I don't know if I'm finding these actions scummy because of how frustrating and arrogant you are becoming or if they are because you are genuinely being scummy but I'd suggest you stop being an arrogant donkey, stop bitching and moaning, and actually make a productive post for once in this game.

[nhammen]

I want EPM and Romanus DEAD. I have a newb-town read on C-Worl, and a 'waaaaaa' read on Silver, but [winger] was just a newb read. I can and do read newbies, and I have the links to prove it, and frankly he read like scum who was trying.

EPM is worse than Romanus. C-worl is a bit scummy, but there are multiple other players that are much worse than C-worl, so I would not support a C-worl lynch at this point. I find silver to be solidly town.

And now Rom is throwing a retarded case at silver.

Long Answer: Calcifer softclaimed a PR D1 when he declared you confirmed town. If I were scum, I would have killed Calcifer that first night, no question. Calcifer was not targeted and is still alive, before he refuted his softclaim. So, first evidence: He's buddying you, who is being framed as scum by the scumteam. When you flip town he'll go "Totally called it guys. Gimme townpoints." Second evidence: He softclaimed PR and is still alive. Third evidence: He lied about being a PR.

This is full of WIFOM. Although, it would also explain why he was willing to make that bet: because scum already knows what alignment Pine will flip with. But that doesn't conform with my townread on Calcifer. I will have to think about this though, because it would explain a lot.

Pine,

who else is getting sucked in?

Everyone voting for Romanus. They're getting sucked into the Town vs. Town fight.

I thought that was reasonably obvious.

@Wraith: lolfail

@Calc: Like I said, I've got a strong Town read on Romanus. Look at Rom again without all the shit Silver has shoveled onto him.

Or without the case from Parama too, I guess. Why are you protecting Romanus so much, Pine?

@Silver:

Vote: Romanus

Obv

Romanus is on the scumlist

I could go against Romanus, too.

I want EPM and Romanus DEAD.

Plus the avalanche of drivel you've shoveled against Rom.

Do you think we are all scum? Or just stupid? Do you think we would all fall for a fail-case? Silver and others raise good points, and the case DOES exist. Deal with that.

He seemed pretty conclusively scum and everyone else was dancing around the hammer when he clearly wasn't going to say anything. I'm mean his fucking post said "I'm a VT." No need to drag things out. Also, it pissed Pie off because he told me I couldn't vote that day. You can get your answers today, no need to throw a fit, your vote on us seems like a massive overreaction IMVHO - you still got your mini wall in and he was going to get lynched anyway. I'm keeping an eye on you for that vote, by the way. Call it an OMGUS if you want, but I rarely see votes on Day 3 with so few reasons and such poor reasoning as this. Your suspicion feels forced and feigned.

I agree that he was pretty conclusively scummy. But that isn't the problem with your hammer. You should have given more time for discussion. You just don't hammer after the day has been open for only 2 real life days. Only scum want to limit discussion like that.

Vote: Pine

He
s highly condescending and hypocritical. Also, so many people have claimed him to be town that I generally want to lynch him just to see how he flips.

What. Do you really think that this is a good reason for any kind of vote? If so, why? If not, then why did you place your vote there?

not sure that works, unless you want to consider pine's attack on wraith simply bussing.

Huh? Explain please. I understood all of the earlier discussion about how scum would have killed softclaimed-PR Calcifer, but I'm not getting this.

Geez you are getting increasingly frustrating to deal with Pine.

I've asked you to state your case. You said you will. You said you will at a later time when you have some free time. Then you finally say you have some free time but apparently you got distracted and decided to do something else with it. I've been patient and have waited for you to present a case yet you still cease to do so while simultaneously still making posts.

You've said the case I've had on rom is bullshit yet you also claim my case is agreed with others and have them voting or wanting to vote for rom. You keep bitching that "rom is town, leave him alone the case presented by silver is a joke" yet don't supply any reasons... more or less demanding that we just simply trust your almighty vision and wisdom.

To be frank I'm getting sick of it, and I don't know if I'm finding these actions scummy because of how frustrating and arrogant you are becoming or if they are because you are genuinely being scummy but I'd suggest you stop being an arrogant donkey, stop bitching and moaning, and actually make a productive post for once in this game.

I agree. Pine's refusal to give his reasoning is frustrating and would be scummy... under normal circumstances. But in this town, that seems to be the standard.

Multiple players have asked Calcifer to explain the contradiction in his lists, and he has posted and... refused to explain.
I asked Antihero to explain the reason that he changed his opinion on Jerbs, and he has posted and... refused to explain.
You have asked Pine to explain his pro-town read on Rom, and he has posted and... refused to explain.

Seriously! How can we scumhunt when many players refuse to answer questions that are asked of them? This is getting seriously annoying. Are our questions invisible? Do you people honestly think that this is pro-town behavior? What the heck is up with you people!?!? FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF [/rant]

[silverbullet999]

Huh? Explain please

What you quoted was in relation to Empking suggesting that masons don't exist

I don't think that quite works since pine is so adamant in attacking wraith.

[nhammen]

I don't think that Empking was saying that Pine and Wraith could be Masons. I think he was saying that scum might think that Pine and Calcifer were Masons, and so would have killed Calcifer, unless one of them were scum. Or at least, I was assuming that that is what he was saying.

[silverbullet999]

hmmm that does make more sense...

[Empking]

I don't think that Empking was saying that Pine and Wraith could be Masons. I think he was saying that scum might think that Pine and Calcifer were Masons, and so would have killed Calcifer, unless one of them were scum. Or at least, I was assuming that that is what he was saying.

Yeah.

[C-Worl]

What. Do you really think that this is a good reason for any kind of vote? If so, why? If not, then why did you place your vote there?

Honestly, the condescending attitude is more or less me not liking him but his lynch would help out the game in a lot of ways. Depending on how he flips we can figure out if Calcifer was full of shit or not and it might get Calcifer to finally explain himself. After, I placed my vote on him I also realized that a wagon on him might get him to stop avoiding Silver's questions and actually answer them. A Pine lynch will also send a message that we are getting sick and tired of people who don't answer our questions which may lead to Antihero explaining himself as well. BC, right now, all these town/scum list that people have built without explanations, all it does is hurt the game. Especially when you have people like Calcifer who derail wagons without a justifiable reason why. Pine's death might actually give us stuff to work on.

[TwoHeadedBoy]

This head will make that long-awaited catchup post (including more reasons for Pinescum) tomorrow on his day off.

In the meantime, Fugi can move our vote if he absolutely wishes to, but I'm moving it back to Pine after I make my case, unless I'm convinced otherwise (which at this point is doubtful).

I have a lot of reading to do.

~Pie

[ConfidAnon]

Pine is being framed. I drop my suspicions against him.

Vote: Calcifer

Not following this. Of all the people to vote, you pick his biggest defender? Considering you believe he was framed, that doesn't make much sense.

How did Jerbs flip VT? Was that mistake on the mod's part? Le soupir.

Give me awhile on this one. I'll have something good by tonight/tomorrow.

I don't like this post - smells of justifying the mislynch post flip, which is scummy.

-------------------------

Wraith's 875 isn't that great. Your discounting different possibilities - that Calcifer would softclaim a PR to give his reads more credibility and/or draw a night kill, the possibility that Pine is scum keeping Calcifer alive to save himself, the possibility that both are scum trying some gambit, or the possibility that both are town being kept alive as a huge barrel of wifom.

This makes it seem like, seeing that not as many people were intent on lynching Pine at the end of Day 2 as there were at the beginning of Day 2, you want to abandon your suspicion of him so as not to be called scummy for still pushing it.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Jerbs lynch. His play was crap, his claim was crap, and he didn't even bother to defend himself or scumhunt. If someone else hadn't hammered I would have.

More mislynch justification, but this is less scummy than Hiraki's as it made some sense given nhammen's prior post.

Vote: Pine

He
s highly condescending and hypocritical. Also, so many people have claimed him to be town that I generally want to lynch him just to see how he flips.

:badposting

Out of three points, only one was a scumtell at all.

This theory is blown to bits by the simple fact that: this game was a day start.

Also this.

Vote: Wraith

[diddin]

Double Unvote, Double Vote: C-Worl

I'm sick of it. You have chosen to do absolutely NO scumhunting today. All you've done is bitch and moan about what Pine's been doing. He's tried to end the argument and you just keep escalating it. Now tell me: Who do you think are scum, and why? Cause I'm not seeing ANY of it.

[Pine]

WARNING: Upon review and tabulation of my reasoning, some of it is based upon opinion and some is based upon facts that I am aware of but you cannot verify beyond doubt.

Okay, Romanus' first post is #633.
I'll admit, right up front, that this is where I started liking Romanus as Town. First post and he defends a Townie getting wagoned on. Scum would have NO reason to do this. I can't even think of a good WIFOM reason. He just replaced in, it would be

seamless

to jump on my wagon. But he doesn't. He's got a level head, isn't affected by the tunnel vision that others in the thread have, and sees what I see on Parama. True, this turned out to be incorrect, but why waste time on a wagon that isn't going anywhere unless you actually agree with it?

Over the next page or so, he sets immediately into scumhunting, picking out what were (at the time) unpopular or under-analyzed targets, such as Jerbs and Wraith. Jerbs had been mentioned like, twice prior to that, and Wraith maybe once.

VOTE: wraith

Silver, you have got to be shitting me. Seriously? That's it? I mean, I think he's scum, too, but why start that wagon with no commentary, no reasoning.

Of course, you don't need justification as just about everyone has made their suspicions of Wraith known.

Unvote

Vote: Silverbullet999

My vote will go back to Jerbs if and when we need a hammer, but for now, Silver has the most recent, most scummy post to date.

@ Silverbullet:

1) Your definition and mine of wagon are obviously different. But you obviously don't want anyone to follow your vote because you don't believe you are starting a wagon. Interesting.
2) I will never give details as to my reasoning, and certainly not with a wall. I gave what my reasoning was based on. Townies should want to make up their own mind.
3) There is more than one scum in this game. And putting you in the spotlight is the best use of my vote. And it worked, as this is the most content you have posted in a while.
4) I've answered all your questions, please answer mine.

Here's the clincher about why I think Silver is misguided regarding Romanus. Silver did something strange (though later justified,) and Romanus called him on it. The act of calling him on it was Pro-Town. Rom recognized something weird, and didn't let it slip past. This, however, was the seed of the Silver/Romanus feud.

From there out, the vast majority of Silver's posts and Romanus' posts have been directed at each other. For Romanus' part, almost the entirety of the remainder have been devoted to scumhunting. He hasn't committed any significant scumtells like wagonjumping, lying, OMGUSing (it took quite a while for him to even vote for Silver,) or getting panicked.

I'll reiterate my opinion: Silver vs. Romanus is a Town-on-Town brawl, and you're dragging each other into the mud. Silver just has a more established image as probTown, so most people are taking his side.

[Pine]

Hey! That didn't actually take as long as I expected it would.

As for people jumping down my throat about delaying the wall, fucking deal with it. I had a busy weekend, and a lot of the posting I

did

manage was from my phone. And it's HARD to post in detail from a phone, let alone quote and search post archives.

Silver, you seem to zero in on something and when facts don't magically appear to support your questionable position, you take a hatchet to whatever seems most likely to produce results.

And C-Worl is just feeding off of it. The Wraith vote is more productive right now, though.

[C-Worl]

Double Unvote, Double Vote: C-Worl

I'm sick of it. You have chosen to do absolutely NO scumhunting today. All you've done is bitch and moan about what Pine's been doing. He's tried to end the argument and you just keep escalating it. Now tell me: Who do you think are scum, and why? Cause I'm not seeing ANY of it.

The FUCK do you expect me to do? Day 1 I screamed till my lips turned blue with reasons why I thought Calcifer was scum. No one listened. Day 2 I brought it up again, again nothing. Day 3, and I'm tired of going after the guy who makes sense to me so I'm going after the guy he's protecting instead, because A) I really don't like Pine, and B) As I said, if Pine flips scum it should prove to people that Calcifer (specifically Mastin) is brainwashing them.

As to why I think Calcifer is scum: He makes these stupid lists right? Never explains them, promised to explain well over a week ago (going on two weeks) but never did. Has since derailed the Pine lynches without any kind of reasoning as to why other than "Mastin had a read"

Since I think Calcifer is scum then: A) Pine is a scum buddy. B) Pine is some random towny he chooses to protect so that if Pine dies, Calcifer gets cleared.

I also think Hiraki is scum for justifying lynches and for the character who he replaced in for. Hiraki felt the need to tell us to forget about that character's posts indicating that there were probably scum slips in them.

[C-Worl]

Okay, Romanus' first post is #633.
I'll admit, right up front, that this is where I started liking Romanus as Town.

Wait, your first big reason for thinking he's town is because he defended you? You do realize that if he were scum and we had gone through with your lynch, and you had flipped town, then it would have earned him town points for defending you. Other than that the rest of your case on him is valid and gives me a Silver scum read.

[IceyCupcake]

Vote Romanus

Scumtells are boring if they're a checklist. Like wee, don't do anything on the checklist and you're town?

No.