Mini 1145 — Plain Mafia (over)

[Pine]

Ok so I just previewed and realized you guys put Trendall at L-1. Can you guys let me finish my draft before lynching anything? Thanks.

No problem. Welcome to the game.
UNVOTE: Trendall

@Yoshi-I realize I still owe a full post. I had a rough day today, and it isn't ready. I did a read-through, though, and made my decision. I'll expound upon it tomorrow.

But yeah, Peabody's devoid-of-reasoning L-1 vote strikes me as scummy, too. Of course, I find just about everything he says to be scummy, so i may be suffering from tunnel vision.

[crazypianist1116]

Just finished reading. Quite an interesting read actually. Lots of stuff happened. Kind of difficult to get a sense of time and who's lurking when you're reading straight through however. So here's what I noticed:

-ICEninja wagon was quite possibly the scummiest wagon I've ever seen. Romanus doesn't read ICEninja's post, and then votes him for reasons blatantly contradicting ICE's post. Trendall jumps on right after him for what seems like no reason whatsoever. We later learn that he never let down his early ICEninja read and was just focusing on getting a read on Lucresia. I'm getting some scum vibes from this as the flip doesn't come until after Lucresia gave her claim post. After Trendall's vote, EA throws down a vote with actual reasons in it! I don't really think it's as valid when ICE comes in and says:

I normally don't like to use meta as a defense, but me making strongly worded votes in the beginning of a game is completely normal for me regardless of my role. I just don't like RVS very much. Your vote on me is just as weak is mine was on you, but your's isn't for the purpose of getting us out of RVS. It's terrible.

While yes EA was being sarcastic when responding to ICE's questions, ICE used this to get out of RVS. No one's going to accept it as a standalone case now, but at the time, it was a very pro-town move by ICE.
Valern then jumps on the wagon for, well, you can go back and read the posts for yourself... Basically another bad vote on ICE.

-Valern's voting patterns. I would have brought up a VCA if ICE didn't do it. Valern has been late on all wagons. The first was copying drk's reasons. The second, I have no clue. The 3rd one on Trendall was somewhat decent but the reasons for voting seem oddly similar to DY's.

-Trendall: So most points have already been brought up, but to reiterate:
Wishy-washy on Lucresia. Bad ICE vote. Current Valern vote seems extremely uninformed and looks like bandwagon hopping in an effort to prevent a self-lynch.

-Peabody: No vote until page 6, and even then, the Pine case was a load of crap. Further the Trendall vote came out of nowhere.

I'm open to a Trendall or Valern lynch today as there's an imminent deadline.

Feel free to bring any comments about Romanus to me. I don't exactly know exactly what he was thinking, but I'll defend him in my place.
I'll give some other reads as I go along, but nothing was as blatant as above.

[Pine]

VOTE: Trendall

That was resolved faster than expected. Thanks for the alacrity, crazypianist. Trendall back to L-1.

[Valern]

I think I clarified this already, but I voted ICE because of his "you're irritating" comment to Erratus more than anything. In context it just read to me like he didn't even care to properly defend himself, so he was going to throw out some name-calling instead and see if that discouraged the wagon on him. I kept my vote on him as long as I did because I felt he was too defensive + defending himself poorly to be town. I feel a lot better about him now that he's stopped being defensive and started doing more scumhunting, but he's still not quite made it to my town list.

I realize this probably comes a little too late to be particularly useful, but I was looking at the wiki pages of quite a few of the people in this game earlier today, and noticed on Trendall's it said he's always been town. This led me to glance at a few of the completed games, and the difference between his posting there and his posting here is truly night-and-day. Certainly not something I'd give much thought to on its own, but given the fact that he's apparently never been scum before, if this is his first scum game it would make perfect sense to see such a big difference in play.

If Trendall flips scum I'm going to be taking a very hard look at DeathRowKitty, who has been one of my stronger town reads most of the game, but jumped ship from Trendall's wagon when it started actually gaining a little steam (and also started posting less around the same time IIRC, although from isoing it looks like there's been a gradual decrease all game, so this might not actually have anything to do with Trendall). I also agree with Yoshi that one of Pine/Peabody is probably scum pending a Trendall scum flip, but it should be obvious by now who I think is the more likely scum out of the pair of them.

And apparently I get rambly when I'm tired. ._.

[Pine]

The post with evaluations on people who aren't Peabody or Trendall is forthcoming, Valern. Probably tomorrow afternoon after work.

[Trendall]

Claim: VT

[Fenhl]

Vote Count 1.8

Erratus Apathos	1	Meransiel
Valern	3	ICEninja	DeathRowKitty	Trendall
Pine	1	Lucresia
Trendall	6	DarthYoshi	RangeroftheNorth	Valern	Erratus Apathos	Peabody	Pine

Spoiler: more info

Not voting: crazypianist1116
With 12 living players, a majority consists of 7 votes.
The current deadline is Apr 8 22:13.

[ICEninja]

I think I clarified this already, but I voted ICE because of his "you're irritating" comment to Erratus more than anything.

Had this been your first vote, that would be fine. But let me quote your previous statement about Lucresia after I pointed out that you seem to be looking for an early lynch:

Exactly.

Unless Lucresia quickly and greatly improves I am not at all opposed to seeing her lynched, even if that lynch ends the day early. As things stand now I feel very confident she's scum.

As I said, she never greatly improved her posting, and he switched his vote to me from a read like that because I told Erratus that he was being very irritating. He

was

being very irritating. That just doesn't look good for you.

I won't do any hammering until Pine comes back with a solid post.

Mod, whats going on with that AMP slot?

[Fenhl]

Mod, whats going on with that AMP slot?

Guess what.

Meransiel is flaking. Please help me with finding a replacement.

[DarthYoshi]

After that last post, ICE is either scumchums with Trendall or probtown. I also concur with him--nobody drop the hammer until Pine brings the content.

I'll admit that Trendall's VT claim is making me re-evaluate my read on him while waiting for Pine's content, but I'm not prepared to unvote.

[Pine]

Sorry guys, I'm working on it now, but having serious problems staying awake. I've had an exhausting couple of days.

[Fenhl]

Meransiel is flaking. Please help me with finding a replacement.

Filled by inHimshallibe — thanks!

[Peabody]

Hey guys,

I know I did not elaborate on my reasoning for voting Trendall. It was a simple bandwagon and sheepish vote because I actually have not reread yet like I said I needed to. I was busy all last night, and in fact, i haven't slept at all last night. This week is really busy for me with schoolwork and responsibilities. I am still willing to reread, but my chances of rereading this week before the deadline are slim.

I don't know if it would be more beneficial for the town if I kept my vote on Trendall for the deadline or if I withdrew my vote until I properly decided who should be lynched. I have no problem with lynching a vanilla claim, and really, I have no problem with Trendall being today's lynch.

I guess, just let it be in the record, that I have not scumhunted much in the direction of Trendall. I don't know his alignment.

Obviously, I'm conflicted between my willingness to have SOMEONE lynched before deadline and my own inadequate reasoning and lack of substantial and evidenced conviction that Trendall is mafia.

unvote Trendall

Although I'm unvoting, I encourage someone who is convicted of a Trendall lynch to take my spot on the wagon.

[Peabody]

EBWOP: I would be COMPLETELY fine with an AMP lynch or a Pine lynch. Just so everyone knows where I stand.

[DarthYoshi]

^The above two posts were written by scum.

Look at Peabody's actual vote--there is nothing except announcing that the vote is L-1 (which is fine, standard operating procedure), and a demand for a claim. Peabody should NOT have been the one demanding a claim, ICE (or whoever stepped forward to say they were willing to hammer) should have been. Peabody also did not give reasons for his L-1 vote, which is telling, since, well, it's freaking L-1. Now that he has Trendall's claim, he unvotes, and, by the by, very diplomatically concedes that his vote was indeed a sheep vote, and proceeds with a whole bunch of gibberish about how really, he's fine with a Trendall lynch, but still unvotes.

What this says to me is that Peabody put Trendall at L-1 just to get a claim, and that he knows Trendall will flip town and wanted to pre-emptively wipe his hands clean after I threw a little heat his way.

Trendall can wait. I wanna see Peabody squeal a little bit.

Unvote. Vote: Peabody.

[DarthYoshi]

EBWOP: Oh, and Peabody unvotes without also re-voting, even though we're half a week to deadline and he proclaims that he is fine with a lynch of three different players.

I get RL shit happens, I really do. But there's no excuse for not having a vote out this close to deadline.

Peabody is scum. Let's lynch him.

[crazypianist1116]

VOTE: Peabody
This is a good choice for lynch.

[RangeroftheNorth]

Peabody admitted he sheepishly voted Trendall, putting him at L-1, even though he wasn't actually suspicious of him at all. That really reeks to me. Peabody's attacks on Pine all game have seemed a little strange to me. They were incredibly adamant, even in the face of next to no evidence. Now, just a few posts after being called on his sheepish vote on Trendall by DarthYoshi, he's trying to backpeddle off of that wagon as best he can, while still advocating that we lynch Trendall.

I think Trendall would be a good lynch, and the posts in his own defense have been incredibly weak, but, right now, I think Peabody would be a better lynch.

Unvote
Vote: Peabody

Preview edit: It looks like other people have started the Peabody wagon in the time I spent typing/watching tv.

[Pine]

Oh thank god. I just spent 12 hours unconscious and was not looking forward to hurriedly finishing the post against Trendall and others. It's half-finished, and I'll clean it up and post it after work, but I've been suspicious of Peabody since page 2 and ready for his lynch since page 4. Glad to see some of you are coming around. Trendall can wait until Peabody flips, and we'll have more concrete information to go on.

UNVOTE: Trendall
VOTE: Peabody

[inHimshallibe]

Yo.

Read the last page on my way to posting hi, saw four posts in a row voting Peabody.

My kind of Town.

Will read these 9 pages and post some thoughts today.

[Pine]

I've complimented Nacho on his use of a JFK avatar as a subliminal "I am trustworthy" message, so your use of a Nixon pic is confusing on the same grounds.

The sudden Peabody wagon probably has 1-2 scum on it. Not me, I've been on Peabody as my #1 for a long time, so the others are looking good to me.

[ICEninja]

I know I've tunneled on Valern a lot, but I'd like to bring this to everyone's attention:

There have been 4 solid wagons during day 1 so far. The wagon on Lucresia was early and fast. The wagon on me was terrible. The wagon on Trendall built up a lot of strength, and the wagon on Peabody seems to have come out of nowhere last minute.

Where was the wagon on Valern? If wagons started so easily throughout day 1 for mediocre reasons, then why has no wagon built on Valern that would have good reasons? Plenty of people put forth some suspicion for reasons that I pointed out. However, no wagon ever formed. Wagons are hard to build on scum during day 1, and fairly easy to build on town. Think about it, if Trendall was scum, would the wagon build on him so fast? Would scum so willingly bus when there were still other options (like Valern) to follow up on?

Then again, the wagon on Trendall totally fell apart at the snap of a finger when the hint of a Peabody wagon showed up. That looks really bad for Trendall, in my eyes.

I don't think we should be lynching Peabody today. It really should be between Trendall and Valern in my opinion. With the exception of Pine, who has been on Peabody since forever, I don't feel like this wagon has built on any solid foundations. The speed at which the Trendall wagon fell apart in the face of a new target seems suspicious to me, and likewise the difficulty it was to get votes on Valern seems suspicious to me.

We're running short on time, so let's come together as town now.

Mod, speaking of time, what does the deadline look like right now, considering the replacements?

[Fenhl]

Mod, speaking of time, what does the deadline look like right now, considering the replacements?

The current deadline is Apr 9 04:07. This was calculated using the posts where I announced that a player is flaking as the starting point, and the posts where I announced a replacement as the end point for a countdown hiatus.

[inHimshallibe]

Vote: Pine

For defending walls. There is a huge difference between a scumtell, nulltell, towntell, and protown and anti-town.

Conciseness is both pro-town and a null tell.
Bad players are anti-town and a null tell.

First terrible post. Voting Pine for defending walls and then going on to discuss things that are not walls.

Peabody really wordy with his first post about AMP and random voting and RVS.

For future reference, I'm noting AMP's late RVS vote because already 25 posts and on the first page, Iceninja's questions seem to have killed RVS. I'm not pointing fingers here yet, but it looks out of place. However, I do understand the temptation for a random vote, but I feel the RVS has been born and has died here on the first page.

^NERVOUS SCUM
VOTE: Peabody

Edited out the bold —Fenhl

I noticed this too. Already had a quick post typed up when I noticed we were already on page 2. I've gotta stop relying on the "Go to first unread post" button. I miss new pages all the time.

VOTE: Peabody

"Noticed"... what exactly? Nervousness, I suppose, though there are no other thoughts to be offered. Pretty vague, don't like it.

If everyone may take notice, on the post where I ask my questions, I clearly state that this information is for my own purposes, and I give no indication that they have anything to do with determining anyone's alignment. That will come soon. For now, I just like to know if people are going to be posting at weird hours or are total newbies. The third question is more of a theoretical one that I hope to someday use to catch lurking scum on. It hasn't happened yet, but who knows. I ask these questions every game, and they don't harm anyone to answer them.

I don't want to discuss or quote directly from the game, as it is still ongoing, but I asked the exact same questions in newbie 1133 and Erratus answered them very differently.

He is lying right now in response to question number 2. Townies don't need to lie.

Vote Erratus Apathos

.

As for the extra mislynch, we get one if a doc/jailkeeper/roleblocker prevents a kill, and gives any vig we have the option to shoot without costing us a mislynch. I'm not against the 12 players at day 1 for these reasons.

Yeah, this is a pisspoor vote. Obvious joking from EA in my opinion being way overblown by ICE.

Trendall's prod response is very likely town.

Oh no! Someone is lying in a way that's completely obvious and intentional about something barely game-related at all! He must be scum!

Sarcasm doesn't make my point invalid. He answered my questions before without stupid responses before, very different then his recent answers. What could have changed since then? His role, possibly.

Be useful and vote Lucresia.

You're telling me to vote someone whom you haven't even made a case against. Why should I vote him?

Is your vote on Erratus serious or a joke?

It is as serious a vote as I can think of making with the information we currently possess.

Forced, forced, and forced.

In her post* I am not a big one on "i'm a girl i'm a girl" or anything, but would rather not be called a him all game if that can be stopped at the beginning

I answered the questions from ICE because although it isn't useful in my opinion, I have nothing to hide or harm by answering it.

Concerning my random vote and wink face. It's a day 1 first vote, I voted random and had no basis. You may not agree with a random vote but it doesn't make me scummy. Also I don't think I get your logic or lack thereof concerning my comment of not losing an important information role on the dreaded night "0". A town player isn't allowed to be happy that main roles that help the town didn't get thrown out the window basically before the game really starts? Why would only a scum be concerned with this? Your quick reaction to vote me off a random vote and no serious allegations makes me curious what you are hiding that you need to shift focus on someone else who has only made their first post in the game.

Don't like any of the last paragraph. Too much turning it around and not enough "lolno".

The last sentence of your post needs some clarification, Erratus.

Are you saying, "Four more votes on Lucresia, who is scum!"?

or

"Scum, please vote for Lucresia?"

Your sentence seems to me to mean the second thing, but I'm willing to wait for your clarification.

This post was remarkably dumb. First meaning was obvious. Second meaning was stupid.

The Lucresia wagon looks good, but I'll keep mine on Peabody for now. Didn't get enough pressure.

Sensey no makey.

Trendall, EA, and DRK leading my town reads as of the bottom of Page 2.

[inHimshallibe]

Ooh, and Valern.