Mini 1145 — Plain Mafia (over)

[inHimshallibe]

Alright, no reason to push ICE. Content level is high, will be hard to keep up if scum, and generally benefits town. DarthYoshi reading quite town.

Okay then

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Valern

As ICE points out, he has conveniently been on every major wagon thus far, and ICE seems to have got less scummy, but I still need to reread properly. I also don't like how Valern was voting for me for not offering enough content when I specifically said I wouldn't be able to post much. I'll do a reread tomorrow and let you know what I got.

Hm.

I'm still convinced that Peabody is the best shot we have at hitting scum with our lynch, but it isn't going to happen right now. I'll make a better case later.

I'm convinced by the Trendall cases. EA's 188 is the latest in a series of good points.

UNVOTE: Peabody
VOTE: Trendall

Not quite as "Hm." as Trendall, but still "Hm."

And then, lolz, Peabody.

Ok so I just previewed and realized you guys put Trendall at L-1. Can you guys let me finish my draft before lynching anything? Thanks.

No problem. Welcome to the game.
UNVOTE: Trendall

@Yoshi-I realize I still owe a full post. I had a rough day today, and it isn't ready. I did a read-through, though, and made my decision. I'll expound upon it tomorrow.

But yeah, Peabody's devoid-of-reasoning L-1 vote strikes me as scummy, too. Of course, I find just about everything he says to be scummy, so i may be suffering from tunnel vision.

We ought to be lynching one of {Pine, Peabody, Lucresia, Trendall} today.

Trendall's unvote of Lucresia is odd.

Where? I never voted for Lucresia.

Seems I'm not the only one who made this mistake. I'm surprised you weren't voting Lucresia, I suppose.

[inHimshallibe]

Ok.

Life List

inHim
ICE
EA
DRK
DarthYoshi
Valern

Death List

Lucresia
Pine
Peabody
Trendall
Ranger
crazypianist

Pine, Peabody, Trendall - overtly scummy behavior, from poor reasoning, to lapses in logic/explanation, to suspicious voting behavior
Lucresia, Ranger, crazypianist - you aren't impressing much upon me, so into death stew you go. I really can't remember much of any impact that these players have had on this game.

[DarthYoshi]

I don't think Valern is scum. It's partly his most recent post. In fact, it's largely that. It was a good post.

Is this in reference to his #246 or #248?

Also, @Valern: Super-secret towntell? Rly? If you want to help the town as much as possible before you're NKed (which you are saying is a real possibility), then why not tell us the tell now instead of in post-game?

#244 is the second post in a row from RotN that I find myself agreeing with completely. Either we're a hivemind when it comes to mafia games, or he needs to get the fuck outta my head.

Now for my response to Peabody:

I understand your drift here. You're analyzing my lack of input and filling in my motives. Yes, I did vote Trendall at L-1, and yes, I did want a claim. I did not know I was going to be unvoting Trendall at this point. However, I got to thinking that my vote on Trendall was for all the wrong reasons: I was eager for the day to end, and I was down with the town lynching with whomever they thought was scum. At the time of my unvote, I realized how unproper it was to vote for someone when I haven't fully investigated him. The thing about making cases is that it is simple to pick a person and then decide the reasoning later. If I were to follow through with the Trendall vote, that is exactly what I would have been doing. It's anti-town thinking, and realizing my mistake, I unvoted.

Do you think you were incapable of putting a sound vote on anyone in the game at the time of your Trendall vote? As a head's-up, how you answer this question will determine whether or not I decide to keep pushing your lynch.

Also, what is "good" sheeping or bandwagoning to you? You characterize Pine's sheeping and bandwagoning as the bad kind--and you may well be right--but how would you characterize your own sheeping and bandwagoning, and if it was bad, why is it any different from Pine's?

I'm also noting that you still have no vote out with two days to deadline.

Pending Peabody's answers to my questions, my vote remains here, but depending on how Peabody answers, I'll return to the Trendall wagon.

PEdit:

inHim is pointing out a lot of things that don't really determine alignment. I'll respond to his points against me if necessary when he's caught up, but it's some seriously weak stuff. The fact that he declares Trendall town in 228, says nothing of him in 234, and also calls Valern town in 234 makes me wonder if he's even reading the same game we are.

I would agree with this assessment, but the above two posts from inHim shows reads that are pretty much the same as mine (with maybe one or two exceptions), compared to his earlier posts where I was like "OMGWTFBBQ?"

This includes the read on CrazyPianist, who, aside from his initial post, has contributed very, very little.

I would like inHim to be giving more extensive reasons for his most recent reads, though, since they correspond to the game we're playing now.

[DarthYoshi]

Also, inHim, how 'bouts a vote? Deadline is a-comin' round the bend.

[inHimshallibe]

Also, inHim, how 'bouts a vote? Deadline is a-comin' round the bend.

Will more than likely vote Trendall today.

[inHimshallibe]

Will look at the voting records and go into more detail later, along with that vote.

[ICEninja]

Valern's 246 is goodposting.

Erratus has pretty much only had goodposting for a while.

Ranger is higher on my townlist than he used to be.

Lucresia is more likely scum now than she used to be, especially since she's had a worthless Pine vote for quite some time now.

Pine, out of context, looks more or less fine. However, taking his votes out of ISO and in to the game are pathetically weak or sheepish, without having done much of anything to advance the game.

Trendall is probably scum. I feel like we should lynch a player who has claimed anyway, since 2 of them have. If we force a 3rd claim, it has a higher likelihood of being a power role, and we're also rounding down the number of VTs that scum could hit in a NK tonight. Due to this and my decreasing scum read on Valern, I am still fine with hammering or joining the wagon. I don't have any time to work out the most recent votes, so I'll

Unvote

and place my vote after having a look at the revised vote count to see what Trendall is at.

[Fenhl]

Lucresia has requested a replacement. As always, please help me with finding one.

Vote Count 1.10

Valern	1	Trendall
Pine	1	Lucresia
Trendall	3	Valern	Erratus Apathos	DeathRowKitty
Peabody	4	DarthYoshi	crazypianist1116	RangeroftheNorth	Pine

Spoiler: more info

Not voting: Peabody, inHimshallibe, ICEninja
With 12 living players, a majority consists of 7 votes.
The current deadline is Apr 9 04:07 (paused).

[ICEninja]

Peabody is at L-3, and Trendall is at L-4. We need to rebuild this Trendall wagon.

Vote Trendall.

[RangeroftheNorth]

Unvote
Vote Trendall

Looks like more people support a Trendall lynch, and I'm fine with lynching either Trendall or Peabody.

[DarthYoshi]

@ICE and RotN--you two do realize the deadline has been paused?

[Pine]

I didn't realize either.

[Peabody]

Do you think you were incapable of putting a sound vote on anyone in the game at the time of your Trendall vote? As a head's-up, how you answer this question will determine whether or not I decide to keep pushing your lynch.

I believe I was capable of putting a sound vote down, and in fact, my vote was on Pine. No one (Lucresia aside) considered my case though I thought the case was decent. When I voted Trendall, I saw that my Pine vote was not put to good use because no one else took my case seriously at all. The likelihood of a Pine lynch was low at that point, so I decided to use my vote somewhere else. When I saw the Trendall wagon building, I decided to go with it because of the reasons I stated in my defense. I realized my Trendall vote was bad, so I unvoted.

Also, what is "good" sheeping or bandwagoning to you? You characterize Pine's sheeping and bandwagoning as the bad kind--and you may well be right--but how would you characterize your own sheeping and bandwagoning, and if it was bad, why is it any different from Pine's?

It is not realistic for every player in the game to vote for the same person for different or previously unstated reasons. There are only so many legitimate accusations that could be thrown before dumb/weak reasons are given. The differences between a "good" (or a better word would be "acceptable") bandwagon/sheep vote and a bad bandwagon/sheeping vote is the motivation behind it. A bandwagon/sheep vote is acceptable if either 1) the player truly is convinced by the mounting evidence against the player or 2) if the player is trying to put pressure on the accused person to get a better read. A bad bandwagon/sheep vote is when the player who placed it neither 1) truly believes the person in question is mafia or 2) is trying to get a better read of the accused player.

If you do not believe a person is mafia or if you are not trying to apply pressure, I venture to say the sheep or bandwagon is scummy/bad. My vote was based on neither of those reasons, thus, I unvoted. It was a bad vote by me regardless of Trendall's alignment.

However, a person is expected to pull their weight when they are playing this game. If all a person does is bandwagon or sheep, they do not contribute much to the town and thus become worthless to furthering the town's pursuit after scum. Scum does not scumhunt because there is no scum to hunt. My vote on Pine was not based fully on the fact that he sheeped or bandwagoned, but it was based on the fact that 100% of his voiced suspicion was already previously stated by someone else. He has not pulled his weight, and that lack of genuine scum-hunting led me to believe he is either placing those votes to appear as town or he doesn't want to find scum.

Pine, out of context, looks more or less fine.

However, taking his votes out of ISO and in to the game are pathetically weak or sheepish, without having done much of anything to advance the game.

This is what I've been trying to say all game!

Also, I like Valern's post 246, and now Valern is my strongest town read (and this is NOT because he was defending me). His reasoning was good and his case was solid. It is unlikely for scum to be so thorough in their reasoning. Valern's post has shown that he is legitimately thinking through the implications of his reads.

[Peabody]

@ICE and RotN--you two do realize the deadline has been paused?

I did not notice this deadline was paused. I now have a chance to reread some things before the deadline and place an informed vote.

[Pine]

I think I'm going to have to ask to be replaced out of this game. I've not been able to get into it at all and I'm having a seriously hard time catching up and maintaining a presence. I'm not doing this game justice, and already got prodded once. Please don't judge my replacement harshly based on my poor contribution thus far.

@Mod: Please replace me.

[ICEninja]

Pine seems to be having no trouble keeping up in 2 other games, and starting a 3rd. I don't like this replace out at all.

Looks like deadline will be extended more though, we'll probably get until Sunday which is good. It gives Trendall more time to ignore the points against him and secure himself as scum.

[Pine]

I'm replacing out because this game is having a hard time holding my attention, and I am playing poorly. I'm not enjoying it, barely reading it, and not doing what I can to advance my wincon. Whoever replaces me will do it better justice. Not sure what it is about this game.

[Fenhl]

Lucresia has requested a replacement. As always, please help me with finding one.

Filled by Quilford — thanks!

The deadline will remain paused until a replacement for Pine is found (for details see rule 24).

[ICEninja]

Pity, Pine looks like a new alt. I wanted to look at some past games of his to see which alignment he prefers, and if there are any roles he doesn't like playing, but I don't see any completed games by him.

[crazypianist1116]

Will catch up in about 12 hours or so. I'm really sorry guys, just trying to juggle too many things at once.

[Quilford]

I'm reading over the thread. Hope to get a post up sometime soon.

[Pine]

Not an alt, ICE.

[ICEninja]

Looks like activity is probably going to grind to a halt until pianist, Quilford, and Pine's replacement get caught up.

Thankfully, Trendall continues to improve the case on himself. I approve.

[DarthYoshi]

I think I'm going to have to ask to be replaced out of this game. I've not been able to get into it at all and I'm having a seriously hard time catching up and maintaining a presence. I'm not doing this game justice, and already got prodded once. Please don't judge my replacement harshly based on my poor contribution thus far.

@Mod: Please replace me.

:headdesk

Peabody's responses to me make a modicum of sense. If he were at L-1, and in light of the paused deadline, I would unvote, but otherwise, I like the effect that the wagon is having on Peabody, and I'm in no hurry to unvote (also in part because I am very interested in seeing who Peabody votes for and why). I'm still liking a Trendall lynch and will hammer him if need be. Pending CP's catch-up post, I may be interested in turning the heat up on him as well.

[Pine]

Fuck it. I'll stay and just try to catch up this evening.