Open 279 - Rusty Guillotine Mafia - Game Over!

GreyICE · Post Post #1900 (ISO) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:59 pm

Vigilante Ventriloquist wrote:@GreyICE
Second scum read and favorite unicorn color please

Also I'm about to lynch you for your avatar, you nimnut.

Change it to a different pokemon. I suggest Mudkips.

Vigilante Ventriloquist · Post Post #1901 (ISO) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:01 pm

Equinox wrote:I like ponies.

:goodposting:

Equinox wrote:
Vigilante Ventriloquist wrote:There's no reason town wouldn't rush a day.
Sure, there is. I don't know about you, but I love to hear from people on the guillotine. (Never mind that I'm said person right now and like to hear myself talk.) The information they provide is invaluable. I wouldn't have tried to rush Day 3 even if the tracker was alive and tracked a scumbag to a dead body; I'd want to hear what Shadow Dancer had to say first. Instead, Jarti voted at the start of the day and whined, "Can we just end the day already?" Multiple times. If that's not scum play, I don't know what is.

Oh, you meant at the start of the day. I thought you were referring to something else (and when I say "something else", I mean I just took your post without any context). I actually don't remember the start of day 3 (*adds to mental list of things to put off until the last minute*), but that does sound a lot worse.

Equinox wrote:
Vigilante Ventriloquist wrote:Actually, tbh, I haven't checked to see how Maemuki would work as scum with Fate....it will be done.
I thought I was scum with Fate...?

I said that and everyone thought/thinks I was/am crazy. vOv They don't think my other personality is crazy though. Apparently only the primary personality is necessarily crazy unless you have a crazy altlernate personality (that didn't sound quite so much like a tautology when I was typing it...it also seemed vaguely on-topic at the time, though I'm really not sure how I made that mistake.). The only thing I'm really any sure of at this point is that Fate is scum. Everything points to it. His play. His play in relation to SD. SD's play in relation to him. Your player slot is kind of like the standard model of particle physics if we were to not find the Higgs boson. Everything fits into place so perfectly. Everything. Except when we get to the final test and where's the goddamn Higgs? In short: I don't know. When you give a read and people start saying it makes them question their scum read on you for being so stupid, it creates a little doubt. And it's slightly depressing.

GreyICE wrote:Also I'm about to lynch you for your avatar, you nimnut.

Change it to a different pokemon. I suggest Mudkips.

No.

Vigilante Ventriloquist · Post Post #1902 (ISO) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:05 pm

GreyICE wrote:
That's fine...but also irrelevant. (also it has nothing to do with posting style, I know for a fact what the main account is)

The point is that he will be choosing between AGM and SD to lynch. He is a good scumhunter (regardless of role-claiming choices) and therefore is more likely to pick scum out of the two of them in the off-chance that they are not both scum.

I'm ok with a shadow lynch...but why are we letting AGM scum off the hook exactly?
I do think Jarti's point is valid. I seem to recall Ythill pointing out yesterday that SD was on every single major wagon that happened.
PLEASE LYNCH AGM OVER MY BUDDY.

That's the only thing in your post that really seems out of the norm to me. The rest seems like just normal interaction.

Vigilante Ventriloquist · Post Post #1903 (ISO) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:10 pm

I only meant to quote the second one of those, I think...

GreyICE · Post Post #1904 (ISO) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:13 pm

you mean it's normal?

Lets count em. Despite being the winning wagon on day 2, that VP Baltar ostenably thought was scum, here's how many interactions VP Baltar had with Shadow Dancer before the lynch:

VP Baltar wrote:
SD wrote:Kinda defies the purpose, don't you think. If you asked him and only him specifically he'd of course think about the setup...
not necessarily

VP Baltar wrote:
Shadow Dancer wrote:Don't try to push suspicion aside to Conc and RC now (knowing that I would even follw you).
WTF...what do you mean now? I've been saying this same thing since way back yesterday. I've wanted Concission lynched since I don't even know when. You think this is new?

Shadow wrote:If you were really that sure Sim was town you would not have hard core waggoned him and forced a claim but defended him pushed another waggon.
I hardcore waggoned him? Really? I suggest you go reread that section and check back with me if you still have that same opinion.

The Entire VT = town debate, which was pure theory speculation, and scummy:

Spoiler:

Shadow Dancer wrote:@Baltar: I am still not convinced of your answer. To help your memories.

This
VP Baltar wrote:Unvote, Vote: Simenon

Claim.
was your L-1 vote on Sim

You say you considered him townie and didn't like the waggon and just wanted to speed up the process so town could move on. Now tell me:
i.) What would be the townie motivation to demnand a claim and set some one, whom one considers to be town, on the bring of death?
ii.) Why did you not try harder to defend Sim?
iii.) How did a VT claim convince you to unvote? Even if you don't agree with the site policy of lynching claimed VTs you certainly knew about it (you pointed out something about blind wiki-followers or something like that) and hence you must have known the consequences of a claim. (Well, I guess this now basically loops back to i.)...)
iv.) Why wouldn't, in your opinion, scum just have claimed VT?

Fixed a broken quote tag. -mod

VP Baltar wrote:1) already answered
2) because I already stated that Ythill's wagoning method made no sense and people put their fingers in their ears. I was tired of the day and was trying to get it to the fastest conclusion possible instead of having an argument that people weren't going to listen to me on anyhow when they were just sheeping bad logic in the first place.
3) already answered
4) already answered

VP Baltar wrote:I'm really not trying to be a jerk SD, but I did answer those questions already. I'll do quotes later for you. I'm just a fairly busy dude and don't have time to be repeating myself most of the time.

VP Baltar wrote:I'll explain further on this one rather than just pointing you to the above bolded, even though I think it is self-evident. Essentially, scum have no incentive to claim VT in that case exactly because of the 'lynch VT site-meta' you are lambasting me about. This is an open game, so scum know exactly what roles are in play and what they need to do to get those roles out of play and gain the advantage. If Sim-scum claims VT there, 9 times out of 10 he's just going to get lynched anyway because that's how most towns role. So, he is going to benefit his team much more by claiming Tracker in that situation and attempting to out the real tracker. He may still get lynched, but he greatly improves the chances of his team winning the overall game by playing it that way. That is why scum, particularly a smart player like Simenon, never would have claimed VT in that situation.

VP Baltar wrote:I agree that it looks like a bus from SD, but a scum in hand is worth two on the gallows....or something like that. Killing AGM is a good idea.

Eh, SD is bussing his buddy, lets not lynch SD.

That was IT.

Nearly 150 posts, talking to pretty much the entire thread.

Except... Shadow Dancer.

The man who paused to ask questions to Anti-town, and constantly pushed AGM never had many real questions for SD, his #2 scuread - and the ones he did have were answered like total scummy garbage, and never commented on.

FUCKING NO

FUCKING LYNCH

Equinox · Post Post #1905 (ISO) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:14 pm

Dammit, people, with this game going slow as molasses, I was going to procrastinate, and then you lot just exploded with cases left and right. I'll get unlazy after an exam on Thursday morning... or whenever person of interest shows up in here.

AlmasterGM, you'd better start telling me why Fate is not town. If the "U COASTING" accusation applies to anyone in this game right now, it's you.

GreyICE wrote:When I know equinox's alignment.

I'm town. Now how about that second scum read?

GreyICE · Post Post #1906 (ISO) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:16 pm

If I had to choose probably VV. But VP is enormously obvious.

GreyICE · Post Post #1907 (ISO) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:17 pm

That's mainly off that weak soft defense up there btw. That was scummy as shit. But that's based on VP being his scumbuddy, and VP needs to die like yesterday.

hitogoroshi · Post Post #1908 (ISO) » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:23 pm

Vote Count #67

Fate: Vigilante Ventriloquist, RedCoyote, AlmasterGM (L-2)
LuckayLuck: VP Baltar, Equinox
Chesskid3: LuckayLuck
VP Baltar: GreyICE
GreyICE: Fate

Not voting:

chesskid3

On guillotine:

Equinox

Deadline is on April 19th, 2011, at 2PM Central Time.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to end the day immediately.

With no new votes until deadline, Fate will be placed on guillotine.

RedCoyote · Post Post #1909 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:33 am

Equinox 1905 wrote:AlmasterGM, you'd better start telling me why Fate is not town. If the "U COASTING" accusation applies to anyone in this game right now, it's you.

I just made two large posts on the subject that you didn't acknowledge. Goodness gracious.

I mean, I've got you going after AGM, I've got Grey going after VPB, and I've got VPB going after LL.

SD's flip was, without a doubt, the most critical event in this entire game. Sim's wagon could probably stand a little more analysis, but that was generally "accepted" toward the end of D1, so it kind of lacks the ferocity that was behind the SD lynch. But SD was a scum lynch that had to be fought for tooth and nail. It was an old school, no investigations, scum slipped up, town sunk their teeth in and didn't let go kind of lynch. The scum fought against that lynch, too. You better believe they did. It was a real battle and it gave us a lot of information.

The point I'm making here is that this game is narrowed down at this point. Much more than you, Grey, and (probably) chess are giving it credit for. You especially have a pretty important role to play today given that I'm convinced your slot is town. My heart and mind say that I've got this game down to 4 possible partnerships, and I think you need to give us more credit.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1910 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:46 am

Fate, RC and chesskid need to come vote LL so we can end this day.

Doubtful I will responding to Grey's quote cherrypicking unless someone who I believe to be town actually wants me to. I don't have the patience at this point with this game. I think I've given all the cases a fair shake today, and Fate lynch just doesn't feel right to me in spite of the SD flip. We need to start organizing here.

p. edit - RC - I am willing to compromise on a Fate lynch today if absolutely necessary, but I really don't like it. Do you not see at all how LL or VV are scummy here?

Fate · Post Post #1911 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:48 am

I didn't fight the SD lynch, I was one of the first to fuckin MOVE to him after his scumhop.

The fuck is going on?

GreyICE · Post Post #1912 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:22 am

VP Baltar wrote:Fate, RC and chesskid need to come vote LL so we can end this day.

Doubtful I will responding to Grey's quote cherrypicking unless someone who I believe to be town actually wants me to.
I don't have the patience at this point with this game. I think I've given all the cases a fair shake today, and Fate lynch just doesn't feel right to me in spite of the SD flip. We need to start organizing here.

p. edit - RC - I am willing to compromise on a Fate lynch today if absolutely necessary, but I really don't like it. Do you not see at all how LL or VV are scummy here?

ROFL

FATE WTF WHY AREN'T YOU VOTING HIM WITH ME?

YOU THINK I'M SCUM AND YOUR VOTE IS ON SOMEONE ELSE?

YOU CHEAP LITTLE JOKER, THAT WAS THE LAST AND FINAL SLIPUP.

YOU THINK ME SCUM? YOU FOLLOW YOUR ACCUSATION WITH YOUR VOTE.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1913 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:48 am

On a non-game related note, I'm tired of people copying Fate's gimmick. Stop typing in all caps cause it's annoying as fuck unless your username is Fate, SpyreX or maybe Gammagooey. Other than that, fucking stop it. You're not cute, nor are you making any kind of point.

Grey - you've already admitted to cherrypicking so I don't get what your getting your panties in a twist about. As far as I can tell, you read my iso and chose quotes without any kind of context other than 'SD flipped scum'. The stuff you are pointing to actually shows a very consistent thought pattern of trying to figure the game out if you bothered to actually look at what you're doing. I believed AGM to be scum at that point and I had been arguing for it very consistently. Additionally, most people in the game had a town read on SD until shortly before his lynch. I wasn't the only one. I will tell you that you suck at this game only if you play like it. Not reading the game or paying attention to any sort of context falls firmly into this category. I am quite certain you are capable of playing better than that, so do it. Other than that, I don't really care how much you pout about it because 1) you're not going to get me lynched when I'm town and 2) you're really not going to get me lynched with such a bunch of nonsense.

GreyICE · Post Post #1914 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:53 am

Okay, so now I'm not scum, I'm back to not knowing what I'm doing.

It shows no pattern of trying to figure shadow's alignment out at all. You asked him one set of questions. The answers were so bad they were literally radioactive. You had no followup and never commented on them.

That's not trying to figure out someone's alignment at all. You didn't even have a followup to THIS answer:

Shadow Dancer wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:Why have you been on my ass so much today if I'm a strong town read SD? Also, what do you mean by erratic?
"Erratic" as "highly prone to error" (another bad choice of words, I gues :/ )... And if been on your arse because you did something highly scummy or rather highly idiotic as I cannot help myself but to feel... And that's what I was going to determine...

Holy shit.

I've lynched people for less than that answer and the followup vote 20 minutes later:

Shadow Dancer wrote:So yeah... AGM was scummy scumscum, is scummy scumscum and remains scummy scumscum.

unvote. vote AGM

L-1 again
. If you still think that's so darn scummy then feel free to lynch me instead. But don't blame me then...

And you didn't even comment on either?

Hey VP, why not you start answering what I say, rather than scumplaining about how I won't get you lynched?

'cause you never made the least little attempt to determine Shadow's alignment. That one set of questions? He answered horribly, followed up with a scummy vote, and you did NOTHING to determine whether he was scum. You AVOIDED mentioning him from there on out.

GreyICE · Post Post #1915 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 2:54 am

If you think I'm scum. Vote for me. NOW

If you think I'm town. Answer me. NOW

Do not scumplain about my skill with this game anymore.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1916 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:07 am

When did I say I thought you were scum?

GreyICE · Post Post #1917 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:08 am

VP Baltar wrote:Doubtful I will responding to Grey's quote cherrypicking
unless someone who I believe to be town actually wants me to.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1918 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:10 am

The answer is that I felt AGM more likely to be scum at that point. Had you read the game, you would have seen that. Yeah?

p. edit - that comment isn't about you. it's about other people in the game. ie, if LL wanted me to respond to you, I doubt I would. Quote this a million times so you don't forget.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1919 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:11 am

My god, you really put in no effort at all. This game is so frustrating.

GreyICE · Post Post #1920 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:31 am

VP Baltar wrote:The answer is that I felt AGM more likely to be scum at that point. Had you read the game, you would have seen that. Yeah?

p. edit - that comment isn't about you. it's about other people in the game. ie, if LL wanted me to respond to you, I doubt I would. Quote this a million times so you don't forget.

The answer is that you made no attempt to determine whether Shadow was scum or town.

His answer to your questions was horrible. His vote he made half an hour later was horrible. Your response was...? Nothing.

You made no attempt to determine his alignment. The number of interactions you had with him the entire game can be counted on one hand.

It's scummy as shit.

I'm sure you're going to link me to someone else who doesn't particularly question anyone. Crypto, Fate, Zoraster. The thing is, they don't ask questions, period.

Why would scum bus?

If sd is scum Agm is not ALSO SCUM.

Which means RC scum would bus to have a manipulatable and dumbtownie AGM SO ENTRENCHED in his pocket, AGm would not even QUESTION his read on "MEANIE FATE AND VP WHO TRIED TO LYNCH ME DAY TWO FR SHIT PLAY ARE SCUMMMMMMMMMTEAMMMM"

Notice how he goes after YOU today not me. He's keeping AGM around* to misvote me at endgame, so he can't push me yet.

(*iif sd is scum and agm is town, not entirely sold bc id like to have SOME respect for agms reads as town.)

VP Baltar wrote:
AGM wrote:@VBP: Is what Concession did scummy?
Where's my vote at?

VP Baltar wrote:
AGM wrote:Isn't this a blatant misrep? The quote says Ythill is talking about timetables, but then the analysis says he was saying, "NEED TO LYNCH NOW" … which he said wasn't what he meant, right?
You're saying my quote was referencing Ythill as talking about timetables? I'm confused. Ythill was making a statement that I don't think was in accordance with his claimed desire to gather info. You can choose to accept his explanation or not. I think it was perfectly legitimate to pressure over, AND I also think you're ridiculous if you believe otherwise.[/spoiler]

AGM wrote:NULL
<snip>
VP Baltar (Although I did think he was scum earlier, I'm putting him up here because there are people who are a lot scummier, and my ability to actually read him is limited)
I don't get this. You spent a good part of your post mentioning me, why you think I'm scummy and that people who think I'm town aren't doing enough to explain those reads....and then you say that you can't really read me. At least have the balls to call me scum if that's the way you want to go.

AGM wrote:Why are you deleting the context from my post? Contextually, VPB said "concession is making mountains out of molehills." I said, "If anyone is doing that, it's you." Your question makes no sense given this back and forth.
I think what he's saying is that it was like 10 pages ago, find something more relevant to talk about. Which I agree with. I find it silly that people see a giant post and are calling you town for it because your previous effort was so bad. I think you should be talking about things that are much more relevant to the current state of the game.

VP Baltar wrote:
AGM wrote:The primary proponents of the VPB wagon were Ythill and Percy. I agreed with it; I know there were some others on it as well. here's what you have to say about them:
Well, you're one for two. Ythill I will give is actively pushing my terrible wagon. Concission and you are/were both riding old ass votes that you can't hardly defend, and Percy hasn't made a meaningful post in days due to illness. I find it pretty ludicrous that I'm the leading wagon due to THAT.

AGM wrote:You have me as a high scumread. Are there reasons other than this?
The main reason you're on my scumlist is similar as to why I'm voting Simenon...playing the game from the sidelines. As the day has thickened, we've seen some people actually scum hunting and others, such as yourself, just going along with others and not really doing a whole lot while clutching to votes as long as possible. I'm inclined to believe that there is scum in the mess of people that are without true direction.

VP Baltar wrote:
AGM wrote:You are not my top suspect any more; however, Ythill is still making good points. What do you expect me to do, be the spearhead of every single wagon?
Have you been the spearhead of any thought in this game?

AGM wrote:I'm not clutching to anything; I unvoted you and voted LL based on reads I garnered during my re-read.
Up until your unvote, you were clutching. Additionally, that unvote only came after you were prompted.

VP Baltar wrote:
AGM wrote:VPB keeps saying that both zoraster and I are scum
lol, seriously? I had that feeling at the start of the day today, which I amended shortly after. Looking at my iso, there are only two posts where I linked you and that was short lived. Do tell where I 'keep' saying it though, considering that your big ass theory above hinges on it.

VP Baltar wrote:I like how AGM has the scummiest reaction possible to getting lynched. P. Funneh.

I linked to everything you did with Shadow. The majority of it was setup speculation. You spent almost no time at all doing anything that RESEMBLED feeling out his alignment. You left him the hell alone.

GreyICE · Post Post #1921 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:31 am

VP Baltar wrote:My god, you really put in no effort at all. This game is so frustrating.

Scumplain all the way to lynch, VP.

VP Baltar · Post Post #1922 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:34 am

GreyICE · Post Post #1923 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:37 am

So no explanation for the dichotomy. No explanation for why your longest discussion with Shadow Dancer was about theory. No explanations why you didn't follow up on your questions or the AGM vote. No explanation for why you thought he was scummy without doing any of that followup. No explanation for why the person who said questioning Antitown day 1 was good didn't bother to question the number 2 wagon and a 'good suspect.'

Actually, lets just focus on the last. Did you really think two different SCUM wagons were flirting with lynch threshold?

chesskid3 · Post Post #1924 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:39 am

alright. it's fuckin time.