Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[GreyICE]

/confirm

[GreyICE]

/vote Tasky

Time Travel: Day 3

Erase from History: Mist7676

Time Travel: Day 1

[GreyICE]

Vote: Tasky

[GreyICE]

/confirm

Please tell me I'm not the only one who needs to read the rules another 27 times?

Nah.

Either this is gonna be a linear game of mafia with 1-2 surprises, or we're going to have NO IDEA what's going on on day 5.

[GreyICE]

nameclaim: The Doctor

Discuss.

Who who, who are you/

[GreyICE]

now whos going to claim as dalek so we can have some fun?

DRUMS!

[GreyICE]

Meh amrun is my mason buddy. They tell me I shouldn't lynch my mason buddies before day 3 or so.

[GreyICE]

Works for me. Question for the town:

Should I work out all the evil shit we can do with a time machine and vig shots? Scum could do similar with a time machine and scum shots, but the benefits of having confirmed town "de-flip" seems a lot higher than the "benefits" of having the target of a lynch change.

On a related note, we put NO ONE at L-1 without planning. L-2 is the HIGHEST we go, because otherwise a time traveling scum shot could flip the lynch target.

[GreyICE]

1.1.3 As soon as 2/3 of the players (rounded down) are voting for "Lynch", or as soon as deadline hits, game enters:

1.2 The nomination phase:

1.2.1 Everyone (including dead players) has to send me a PM with an ordered list of who they want to lynch (the list has to include every player, including dead ones).
1.2.2 Deadline for nomination phase is 48 hours. Lists I haven't received when deadline hits will be randomized. If you know you will not be online at nomination, I suggest you send a list ahead of time (you can still change it).
1.2.3 From each list I will take into consideration the first two players who are still alive and count those as the players vote.


1.3 The lynch phase:
1.3.1 As soon as I get all the nomination PM's I reveal all the votes (recall that only the first two living names on a list are votes) made by currently living players. The rests of the list remains secret.
1.3.2 The top two candidates are put on the block and have the right to make one and only one last post. Everyone else may post as normal.
1.3.3 As soon as both lynchees have made their ending statement, everyone (dead players too) has again to send me an ordered list of who they want to lynch (again, dead players have to be included in the list).

No. It is too soon to enter the Nomination phase, as that will result in two candidates being selected virtually at random.

If we do, my #1 will be KCDAspot, and my #2 down will be everyone voting lynch after this post.

[GreyICE]

@GreyICE: How exactly are you saying we would put someone at L-1, seeing as the votes are just "Lynch" or "No Lynch"...?

Also, @

Mod:

In the rules it says that the first nominations are revealed...will we know who everyone nominated? Or just the top candidates?

Meh I didn't notice the secret and simultaneous.

But basically, if we had a nomination at 4 and one at 5, and we killed someone from the 5, we could potentially flop the nomination, bringing us back confirmed town - or confirm people liars.

[GreyICE]

Question: Does any of this really even matter anymore. I'm pretty sure everyone knows by now that there are crazy lynch and night mechanics so there's no need to keep talking about it and going off on tangents. I understand that it may be confusing to some but after three pages, we should be having some discussion about things other than mechanics. So as of right now I'm going to declare this a RQS to (hopefully) get the ball rolling:

@Everyone-What is your opinion of policy lynches and Lynch all Lurkers/Lynch all Liars in particular?
Have you played with any of the people in this game before?
How active are you?

As for me, I only support a policy lynch if there are no better lynches to go off of. I also only follow Lynch all Lurkers if there is other evidence to support them being scum but I am a heavy beleiver in Lynch all Liars since town rarely have a good reason to lie. I have played with Chrono, RC, smar, GW, and Exe before and I try to post three times a day spread out every day.

And one more thing: This shouldn't need to be mentioned but any killing roles should kill and when docs see a dead power role they should go back in time and protect them for an insta-clear.

If you have any relation to Enigma, I have a strong belief in policy lynches.

[GreyICE]

I assume temporal parodox is anything too irritating to work out.

[GreyICE]

Ranger of the North. Page 4. Bookmark it.

[GreyICE]

Ranger of the North. Page 4. Bookmark it.

[GreyICE]

Lemme help everyone else out.

Ranger of the North is scum.

WTF is this town-on-town shit?

[GreyICE]

Because you're wrong, and kcdaspot is town

NYAH!

[GreyICE]

I do think we should avoid lynching until we have someone we want to lynch. That means random voting is probably not a great idea.

I'm fairly suspicious of Amrun and KCD who apparently read the rules, but are still ok with going to the nomination phase this early in the game.

Have you read the rules, Tragedy?
Nominations are submitted by PM to the mod.

Maybe that's what you're talking about, but that clearly wasn't what Mist was talking about

ME: Insert Obligatory Refusal To Answer Pointless Questions Here
GROUP A: Vote: Ranger for refusing to answer pointless questions
GROUP B: Vote: Group A for thinking not answering questions is scummy

There, now that's done with. Can we get on with the game now?

I just quoted you all his posts.

In order.

So yeah.

[GreyICE]

Interesting.

[GreyICE]

Oh by no means stop.

I'm just interested in opinions on Ranger of the North right now.

[GreyICE]

This is a joke clearly based on an ongoing game, so I can't directly say how I feel about that part, but what I can say is why the hell does Ranger ask for us to "get on with the game" when he contributes nothing that could possible move the game forward?
This single post is massively scummy, and combined with the fact that he barely has posted, I'd say we caught scum #1.

Pssst. Grey, do something like this next time you call someone scummy. I have to actually agree with this point now that I see it.

Psst: Doombunny

I have reasons.

@Amrun: Why are you obvscum and how did you fail?

Also, give me some town scum reads, they shall be delicious WIFOM.

[GreyICE]

/prodded.

My Inet fell over the other day, so I'm actually piggybacking on a neighbour's wifi. So that makes me v/

LA

.

But I'm here for a few minutes, so:

I don't have any strong scumreads. Probably due to not having had time to read the thread. I just skimmed though and here are my impressions:

Kcda vs GreyICE looks TvT

Tragedy is a VI (as usual)

Mist can go in the same category as Tragedy.

Deeper impressions on the Kcda vs. GreyICE bit? What's the kcda town tell that stands out for you? My town tell?

[GreyICE]

Dropping your accusation of me, Grey? Was it some sort of test?

Yep. You failed.

[GreyICE]

So guys, page 4. Yes?

[GreyICE]

I'm locating scum.

It's going pretty well.

[GreyICE]

Well you could start by doing some form of scumhunting that does not involve picking on kcdaspot for a joke made during the confirmation phase.

I don't see any real signs that even you think that he's scum - just that his actions were anti-town and a bad idea.

[GreyICE]

Top 3 if we went right now?

1) Chronopie
2) Ranger of the North
3) Amrun

[GreyICE]

Amrun on kcda is not scum on scum, try again smarg. This time with less waffles.

Are me and kcdaspot the only ones who see why Chronopie is going to die unless he explains himself convincingly right quick?

[GreyICE]

Ghostwriter, we should play LoL together sometime.

Ranger completely avoids my point. I am dead-confident in my top scumsuspect being Ranger.

Doombunny is playing extremely passively, though that's basically already been brought up. He'll be high on my list.
Kcd still just reads gut-scummy to me.
Amrun seems pretty much identical to her last game with me, in which I called her as scum. I need to check her meta to see if she always plays the same, though.
Still waiting on Chrono to answer where he got such a specific scum-team assumption. Also waiting on Chrono to actually post more than 1 post.

Compared to a previous experience with Ghostwriter, this GW seems pretty much obvtown.
GreyICE, question: are you trying a different strategy than normal, in your opinion?

P-Edit: GreyICE, are you perhaps referring to Chrono's super-assumptions regarding the scumteam?

Oh no, I see that all the time. I'm referring to this:

Kcda vs GreyICE looks TvT

Skimming the thread is one thing. He didn't even bother to check what was going on, just called the biggest debate TvT. Which was Amrun v. kcdaspot... and he didn't even remember Amrun.

Look at that post. I probably could have written it in the pregame with the players list.

"{First big fight of the day} is TvT"
"{Player X} is a VI"
"{Player Y} is a VI"

"I don't have any strong scumreads. But in a 13 player game, it's a 3 man scumteam and the mod confirmed no third parties. Therefore the most likely scum are:

{Whoever any town players are pushing}
{Random person}
{Random group of two other potential mislynches}"

Fuck, he didn't read the thread enough to know the fight was Amrun vs. kcdaspot, how did he call the scumteam? He didn't. He did nothing. He just posted to look townie.

Posting just to look town, with logic that isn't logic, using posts that don't contain any analysis is SCUM.

[GreyICE]

GreyIce, what do you mean by "waffles?"

Also, Chronopie's in this game? Ick, I'd completely forgotten him.

Amrun, where's your list?

I mean that unless you have a VERY compelling argument that this is a piece of scum distancing, this is either T-T or T-S. So to put kcda AND Amrun high in your lynch list is very weird. Take a stand, which one is scum and why?

[GreyICE]

Top 3 if we went right now?

1) Chronopie

Quit trolling.

No his post was clearly intended to make it look like he was following the game, while providing no input whatsoever, and he clearly was beyond skimming, he wasn't even paying attention.


That's pure scum.

Amrun on kcda is not scum on scum, try again smarg. This time with less waffles.

Maybe not, but one of them is scum and we can stand to lose them both. Just sayin'.

It's not town on town? Why.



__

Quote fixed. Tasky

[GreyICE]

I've said it before, I'll say it again Smarg. Whenever all your scumreads are newer/less experienced/less skilled players, ask yourself if it's really that easy.

The answer is usually no.

I would not be overly surprised if Amrun v. kcda was TvT. If you want my opinion, and I've been holding it back to see the responses, kcdaspot is fairly obvtown and I'll be treating suspicion without reason on him as fairly scummy from here on out. Amrun... is worse. Much worse. That being said, deep under Chrono and RotN.

[GreyICE]

Grey, then we're going to disagree about Kcd's obvtownieness. However, you should note he's down at 5 on my list. Why are you being so defensive about my read on someone else?

I'm pissed.

Whenever someone looks at a fight, and goes "that's town on scum, lets lynch both," well, if I had a dayvig I'd be getting itchy trigger finger.

[GreyICE]

Right now it's Amrun/DB/Ranger/Kcd for me, the last three may shift some.

Smarg

This clearly didn't take a stand on the argument. At all. It provided no analysis, no conclusion, all it did was say that 'my list will contribute towards getting one of the two lynched.'

If Amrun is obvscum to you, then kcda HAS to be town, because this is not a scum double bus.

[GreyICE]

I don't think it's a bus, I think it could be distancing. I'm interested in why you're so invested in denying that this is even a possibility, though.

Because it's STUPID. That's not scum distancing. Like, maybe if that was two great players, yeah, sure, they have a contrived fight in the thread to look town-on-town. But that one didn't succeed in looking town on town, and kcdaspot can't do that. I've lynched him as scum twice so far, and he gets scared of his own shadow under pressure. No damn way that Amrun and him could pull that off.

I deny it because it's FUCKING STUPID

And if you think otherwise, show me how

[GreyICE]

Well Grey has been juping around topics which I'm unsure what to make of at the moment. I also don't like how grey just threw out the possibility of scum v. scum because, even though its unlikely, its still 100% possible as he stated, while it does take good players to pull of properly, that doesn't mean no one else can try. Throwing out any possibilities is anti-town at least.

On the other hand, grey's posting here has came off with "pro-town" vibes as it looks like he's trying to help out and I don't see why scum would post some of his arguements unless it was a scum v. scum which I why I'm still unsure of what to think about this.

UGH

No, throwing out possibilities, especially on day 1, is VERY pro-town. You can revisit the assumptions if they need changing, but in general these are almost certain assumptions not worth revisiting until LyLo:

1) Early day arguments except between two VERY good players are TvT or TvS, never SvS. SvS tends to look more like Consulmaker II (Dramonic and Reck) where they had no good reasons for calling each other scum, and were almost playful about it. And they never worked hard to get each other lynched. If you're not getting a feeling that they're playing a game in the thread, they're either EXCELLENT or it ain't SvS. Frankly, I know kcdaspot isn't as bad as people think, but he's not that good.

2) If two wagons hit L-1 and one is scum, the other is town (I don't think that'll hold in this game, since the nomination process could easily get two scum in there, but when it's one vote, you like... never see two scum L-1 wagons sitting next to each other).

3) If it's taking risks it's probably town - this is often worth revisiting midgame, but scum risks can fall apart so quickly.

4) There's scum in the lurkers - believe me, lurkers are going above every contributing town member, and scummy lurkers go right at the top. Post content or die.

5) Strong, consistent stances are town - again, worth revisiting midgame, but scum tend to waffle more, since multiple mislynches is nice.

[GreyICE]

Hey Red, it's fucking getting old because it's fucking true.

Whenever someone's scumreads strongly resemble 'the easiest players in the game to get lynched' there's a fucking problem. Try an experiment. Make a list of the 5 easiest players in the game to lynch before the game starts. If it's anything like anyone's scumlist on day 1, try and figure out how often all 3 scum are in those five players (hint: not often) and how often the person with strong scumreads on people who are 'easy lynches' are scum (quite often).

kcdaspot is obvtown. If you disagree, make a case or fuck off.
Amrun vs. kcdaspot is not scum on scum. If you don't like that, explain how it was preplanned, or fuck off.

I have no need or desire to appease you. I have no need or desire to go up or down on your scumlist.

Why is Chronopie town?
If I'm scum, how come Ranger of the North is up there, when all of your 'major scum suspects' have expressed suspicion of him?

[GreyICE]

...

Did you really state that I 'implied' something was true, when I said 'it was true?'

Do you know the meaning of the word 'imply' RedCoyote? Does it mean something besides 'I want to paint this person as scummy?'

[GreyICE]

He needs so much dead.

[GreyICE]

You did read #290, right?

Lets see if you can take a firm stand on something this game, Smarg. Analyze post #290, tell me what you see there.

[GreyICE]

I'm fairly suspicious of Amrun and KCD who apparently read the rules, but are still ok with going to the nomination phase this early in the game.

[GreyICE]

The number of people who seem very willing to have both of you die is surprising, to be frank

[GreyICE]

You know what.

I have nothing new to contribute. I am still confident that the scum lie in Amrun, Ranger, Chrono, and Kcd, with only one of Kcd and Amrun being scum.

And other than that, I see a whole lot of noise.

Executive decision.

I declare kcda/amrun town on town.

Who is #3 now.

[GreyICE]

So I'm finally back.

I see I'm getting Flak about declaring

KCDA vs GREYICE

TvT.

It's quite simple. KCDA vs GI was current at the time. The previous conflict had been resolved. Therefore it was not worth commenting on.

--

On my list of:

Ranger
Smargret
{Doombunny/EXE}

I was getting a bad feeling about those four. to the point where I wouldn't mind seeing any of those four hang. It's one of those things that's annoying to put into words.

Okay so you're scum.

Good to hear.

[GreyICE]

Grey... why are you so keen to declare us both town?

i played with you before.

why town hunting as opposed to scum hunting?

nice waffle with amrun.

first he's town v towning me then he's 3rd place in the scum list for you and now he's town again...

wat?

Well you've been town for quite some time.

Amrun is growing on me simply because of the number of scummy people who are happy to see you both dead on the theory that one of you has to be scum, and work is hard, right?

[GreyICE]

Chronopie is scum.

1. Chronopie
2. Amrun
3. Doom
4. Grey (for defense of Amrun - suspicious regardless of Amrun's flip, but moreso if Amrun flips town)
5. Ranger
6. Imaginality

Thanks.

I wasn't aware I was playing with a bad DrippingGoofball.

Mind explaining ANYTHING you post in this thread, smarg?

[GreyICE]

Amrun - scum 101 is to find a townie being wagoned hard and say "Gee, I don't think X is scum, I think they're town." Then you get bonus points when X is inevitably lynched and flips town - you weren't on the wagon, in fact you were against it. You certainly fit the "wagoned hard" part of the definition, and if you flip town, then the whole scenario fits.

I could also see the attack on me/defense of you as a chainsaw defense, but I don't see those as frequently as I see the townbuddy, which is why it's worse for Grey if you flip town.

Or maybe townplay 101 is to FIND SCUM AND LYNCH THEM AND NOT LYNCH TOWN.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO FIND SCUM?

[GreyICE]

Your reads list looks VERY similar to mine.

So what? #1 is my buddy Chronopie who I'm bussing?

[GreyICE]

Amrun - I'm not backing away from the distancing theory; I think it's more than likely that you're scum. However, I recognize that there's a chance that I'm wrong, and that if I am wrong, Grey is likely scum.

Grey, what do you think I'm trying to do? Also, why couldn't you bus your buddy if they're being obvscum?

Ah so he's being obvscum.

Who was the first one to call him scum? Who put him as #1 in their reads list first?

I really don't know what's going on with your slot, and I'm not overly happy about it. I'm giving it a pass because it doesn't feel scum, just BAD. Frankly, if I didn't know there was no serial killer, I'd call this serial killer vibes.

[GreyICE]

Basic logic suggests that Scum will have access to time-travel mechanics. Note that every assumption made follows on logically from the previous. 13 players -> 2-3 scum. Time Travel mechanic -> Scum likely have access. 2 scum in a 13 player game tends to be slightly underpowered, so access to advantages = balance. 3 Scum tends to be slightly on the powered side, so restricting access = balance. therefore it is logical to assume... etc.

Oh good, follow up useless commentary on events that didn't happen with useless commentary on mechanics!

HELLO FUCKING LYNCH

[GreyICE]

@GreyICE: what are your current thoughts about smargaret? scum? lazy town? ..?

I've been burned with giving 'lazy town' a pass too long. The kcda/amrun/mist team was lulz.

That being said, I just don't see a scum tone. I'd be highly disappointed if she was in the top 2 today, barring some spectacularly bad lines from her.

If she's still doing similar on day 3, I'd throw her into the noose in 5 seconds flat.

[GreyICE]

Since I've comepletely forgotten about it until RC reminded me... Grey, feel like answering my question I asked in post whatever (Not going to go back and check since RC quoted it for you)

What question? I'm serious. I have no idea, and I'm mostly reading RC posts to figure out how close to the 'scum' line he is today. I've yet to see him as town though, which could be biasing me. If it's something hiding in a wallpost, it's probably because it was totally worthless.

[GreyICE]

Oh, it was all nonsense. Half of it was just saying that I 'implied' stuff I flat out stated I believed.

If he wants to talk, he can talk, but at the moment he's in the weird 'smarg grey area' where I have little reads but little reason to believe they are scum.

I should really make a town scum list after easter weekend, but you try it on a phone.

[GreyICE]

Oh, it was all nonsense. Half of it was just saying that I 'implied' stuff I flat out stated I believed.

What about the other half? I find it odd that you'd just flat out ignore those parts of his post.

What parts do you think need answering? Can you rephrase them into actual questions?

[GreyICE]

What parts do you think need answering? Can you rephrase them into actual questions?

-">implying I didn't just do this for you"= Not sure

precisely

what RC is saying since I'm too lazy to look at context right now but why did you try to leech off of RC's case for why Kcda is town?
-">implying we didn't already discuss this" = Why did you try to restart the "Chrono is town" case when it was already discussed?
-">implying I base my scumhunting on "who could be partners with who" on D1 of a closed setup when there have been no flips" = Should be fairly obvious: Why did you assume that RC based his D1 reads off of who possible partners are rather than whos acting scummy, especially since no one flipped yet?

- Didn't
- What? I want to lynch Chrono. I have for pages and pages.
- RC didn't seem to even consider if any of the partnerships he suggested made any sense. That's pretty strange, to say the least.

So yeah. It was fucking nonsense, and you should feel bad for repeating it.

[GreyICE]

Are you suggesting that the scum are on different teams Doombunny?

[GreyICE]

Can you point me to a few posts that suggest to you this is one of those scum-scum ballets?

(to clarify: I have a strong town read on you, but I think this theory is batshit)

[GreyICE]

(and yes the strong townread is new. Deal with it)

[GreyICE]

We should have town consensus who will end up there.

Imagine the grid is like:

Ranger of the North

Amrun

Kcdaspot

Top 2, if it were all townies would be RotN/Amrun
But scum put all 3 scum in bottom, so it becomes Amrun/kcda.

So before we go to there, I think everyone should state their top 3 in order. That way if someone unexpected percolates up, we know what's happening is scum driven.

Right now my top 3:
Ranger of the North
Chronopie
MrTrow

Amrun and Kcdaspot get a pass on activity levels from me. I'll be putting them nice and low to keep them out of the top 2. Anyone who contributes posts in the mid-60s day 1 gets a pass in favor of the guy posting 6-7 unless they're OBVIOUS. If you think this means you can get a day 1 pass by contributing interesting content in large amounts day 1, yes, yes it does. Please do so if you're scum.

[GreyICE]

What parts do you think need answering? Can you rephrase them into actual questions?

Why don't you ask me (like you should've done in the first place)?

Why don't you ask me then, like you should do in the first place?

Or was the point not to ask questions but to make people look scummy?

[GreyICE]

I'm going to beat you up in real life, Grey.

Well then what was the point, RedCoyote?

I say "I think kcdaspot is town."

You say "He's implying kcdaspot is town [without saying it]."

Don't say the

implication

isn't clear. When you imply something you are avoiding stating it.

Flat out stating something is very different than implying something.

"I can't figure out the town motivation to do that" = implying scum.
"You're scum" =/= implying scum

Got it?

[GreyICE]

@Kcdaspot: Now you're calling GreyICE, who attacked you, town, then Amrun, who attacked you, Town.
Is every single attacker to you town? Sounds a bit ridiculous there.

Tragedy - please point to this "me attacking kcdaspot" bit.

The reason I wanted to lynch Chrono was not because of me and kcda's big fight in the thread...

[GreyICE]

- What? I want to lynch Chrono. I have for pages and pages.

I can see where I may have caused my confusion. You asked RC why he thought Chrono was town, RC said he already discussed this.

What we want to know is

why you tried to bring up something that was already discussed.

Ahem

Both of you.

Please tell me where this huge discussion from RC on it is.

Go on.

[GreyICE]

I was bolding the buddying language. I have nothing more to do with that. It's why I posted it directly after the post where he says he doesn't see any such language.

Oh okay. I was wondering if you were hopping on the 'oh man, RC presented this amazing case on Chronopie being town why did you ignore it' wagon

[GreyICE]

Um so
I hate to give away town secrets and all
but...

You've obviously got the basic structure right, but I think you're dealing with a lesser likely target, GreyICE. I think SharkFinn is actually scum and I'll tell you why. Because he violated the most reliable scumtell of all-time.

Im replacing Consission, who if it wasnt for me replacing in and seeing his/my role PM, i'd look into him as being scum.

GreyICE is obv town.

Let me quote my good friend Amished on this...

For those of you that don't know what's going on; I've basically come up with a scumtell that if you *criticize* who you replaced in; you're scum. This is a refinement from what I had it (if you read your replacement at all you were scum); but this seems to cover all the instances where I've seen/remember it. If you're town, you really don't have to worry about your predecessor as you know they're town; but if you think that they're scummy; then you're scum. As town, you know that you're not scummy and don't deserve criticism at all.

After the last time I used his tell Amished estimated that when called out it identified scum 10 out of 11 times and was perfect when it was used properly.

VOTE: SharkFinn

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2811869

SharkFinn has been executed. He was the other

Werewolf

.

Maybe this will fail me today.

I think not.

[GreyICE]

Zinger is obvscum too. Red coyote deserves mockery - err, an answer - and will get it as soon as I hit my computer.

If zinger does not show up in the top 2 then scum is responsible.

[GreyICE]

I've had the Amished tell applied to me when I was town and didn't know not to do it, but it's less reliable for females due to psychology. Despite having been burned, I still think it's a pretty reliable tell. It doesn't have anything to do with meta. It's a psychology thing.

in this case it's near 100% though.

He didn't read the thread yet BUT HE READ HIS PREDECESSOR. Who the hell does that as town? As scum? Oh yah. My first scum replace I did EXACTLY what he did in that post.

[GreyICE]

What? Your question as to when I called your predecessor as scum?

Yes, I'm going to throw it people's face tomorrow when you flip red. Now lets make a case on RotN's obvscum replacement.

[GreyICE]

Okay, Zinger is in a bit of a bind. He replaces into a scum slot that's under a ton of suspicion, and manages to commit one of the more reliable scumtells in the book on post 1. How to salvage that?

I'm on page 10 of my detailed re-read (is there a way to have more posts appear per page?).

So far my biggest scum-read is Chronopie (now Maxous), for basically the same reasons GreyICE said in post #226. Also, Post #226 is the most town-efficient post I have seen from GreyICE thus far.

@GreyICE, is there a reason you post in such a confusing manner when it's clear you are capable of sensible posts as well?

I can't fault kcdaspot for the Doctor Who reference. If I had been around in the joke phase I probably would have done the same thing. His posts since then however haven't seemed overly productive and actually resemble (most of) GreyICE's posts a lot. They are short, don't explain themselves, and are sometimes even nonsensical. Not sure what he hopes to gain, could be scum.

I understand Amrun's reasoning for having a scum-read on kcd despite not necessarily agreeing with it. I have gone back and forth from thinking Amrun town to thinking Amrun scum. Currently Null-read.

Doombunny's questions could have been innocent, or they could have been designed to kill relevant discussion. Leaning more towards the idea that there might be an alterior motive behind them. Slightly scummy for now.

Town-reads on GhostWriter, RedCoyote, and Exe for using logic+scumhunting.

This reread is classic for scum. He calls it 'detailed' but it's pretty clearly skimming for things to call scummy and townie. For instance, he considers that Chrono is scum for basically the reasons I said, yet suggests I'm a scumread.

His townreads are for fairly lame reasons. I've seen lots of 'logic' and 'scumhunting' out of scum. He has made no attempt to determine motivations, reasoning, or anything else. He's basically skimming for points.

I called them both scum. I simply called Amrun slightly more scum because Amrun is the one that is slipping up more in my point of view.

Actually you said you were going back and forth, but hey, don't stop a mislynch. And don't provide any reasoning!

Earlier:

Whenever someone's scumreads strongly resemble 'the easiest players in the game to get lynched' there's a fucking problem.

Recently:

Hey look guys! There's the guy who replaced in for someone we mostly thought was scum, and he acknowledged that RotN didn't play well too! If there was an '

easier

' target for scrutiny, I'm not seeing it. obvscum-obvscum-obvscum.

lol. I am amused by his blatant disregard for his own logic. GreyICE needs to take his own medicine.

Yay misrep.

Then there's that fucking horribly whiny AtE up there.


Ranger is scum. His replacement is scum. Obvious suspicion pushing, misreps, AtE, and all the reasoning of... well... fuck all basically.

He's not reading for people he thinks are scummy, he's going for 'Easy targets + OMGUS.'

Every single post after this one should contain a reason why we would lynch ANY person who is not Zinger today.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, GreyICE you're not helping your case.

And you still haven't answered my question.

But whatever. You're obviously one of 'those' types who can't stand having discussion in a civilized manner. That's fine, I can play that game too.

Already answered it, Zinger.

You've hit straight up evading now.

[GreyICE]

Dude.

That's when I called Ranger of the North scum.

It's bookmarked so I can laugh at people tomorrow after the red flip.

[GreyICE]

Yeah, I get that. I want you to explain yourself since RotN didn't even post anything on page 4.

... huh?

Are you quite sure you've read the thread?

[GreyICE]

I'm tempted to vote lynch. I know who I want dead, and I don't think any town player has an excuse for not top 2ing him.

[GreyICE]

Wow, this is epic flailing.

[GreyICE]

Given that I've explained it twice so far, and you've 'failed to understand it' both times while ignoring everything else I said, I'd say there's some dodging going on all right.

You're scum, you're getting lynched today. Relax, it'll be over soon. I'd say you made a good effort, but you replaced into an obvscum slot and were obvscum. So... not really.

[GreyICE]

Are you that fucking dense? I called Ranger of the North scum by page 4, because he was. I'm going to use that to laugh at people tomorrow while they commented on TvT fights and futzed about.

You meanwhile have done shitall but dig your hole deeper and scream and throw an OMGUS temper tantrum.

This'll be FUN

[GreyICE]

....................................................................
I just answered your question

"Too dumb to be scum" is not a gambit I pay attention to.

[GreyICE]

I did say that. About 2 pages ago. Now want to comment on ANYTHING else?

As for gut based, lolno.

I think the potential for confusion is great, but so is the potential for AWESOME

I do think we should avoid lynching until we have someone we want to lynch. That means random voting is probably not a great idea.

Deliberately avoiding taking a stance in RVS,

ALSO DEMONSTRATING HE HADN'T READ RULES

.

I'm fairly suspicious of Amrun and KCD who apparently read the rules, but are still ok with going to the nomination phase this early in the game.

Typical scumbag suspicion pushing. It's fairly obvious that Amrun/kcda thought that the vote on 'no lynch' was for not lynching, not for 'don't lynch YET.'

Have you read the rules, Tragedy?
Nominations are submitted by PM to the mod.

Imma rules guru!

Maybe that's what you're talking about, but that clearly wasn't what Mist was talking about

Imma not gonna comment on anything!

ME: Insert Obligatory Refusal To Answer Pointless Questions Here
GROUP A: Vote: Ranger for refusing to answer pointless questions
GROUP B: Vote: Group A for thinking not answering questions is scummy

There, now that's done with. Can we get on with the game now?

Imma gonna call out that I'm not gonna answer your questions or any others, and lampshade how scummy that is! Because no scum would lampshade their scumminess! (fun fact: In a game I recently got out of, two people jokingly claimed scum. They were both scum. Scum are the MOST LIKELY to lampshade their scumminess).

Nothing gut about it at all, Zinger. He was OBVSCUM. He was going to die day 1. It was useful to see how his buddies would react to me calling it. They ALWAYS react interestingly.

You're stuck in an obvscum slot and are obvscum as well. So you get to die now.

[GreyICE]

Took you long enough. If it's going to take a page and a half of badgering to get you to explain yourself every time I have a question, this is going to get really frustrating really fast.

Dude, why am I playing question and answer with you?

You're obvscum. You've announced it several times. You replaced obvscum. He announced it many times. For fucks sake he's a newbie and he flaked out of ONE of his games where he was acting like a total scumbag? And then you come in and Amshed in the first post and then proceed to grab any ammo and try and OMGUS the fuck out of me for catching you?

Yeah, not overly worried about playing Q&A. Just enjoying all the misrepresentations, deflections, and lies you're throwing out about me while you're defending yourself.

At this point, scumteam, I suggest bussing.

[GreyICE]

Oh for fucks sake
I can and will vote and hammer the hell
Out of day 1 power role claims
So unless it's "Mason" I'd find a better time to spit it out than right before you die so you get to play Q&A with the rest of us. Because somehow I just know two scum aren't going to make it up there, we're never that lucky.

[GreyICE]

Kcda is definitely going, no question. Zinger is a mislynch, but, whatever. I'd be willing to lose Zinger if we could just move to the next phase. Amrun or Grey would be better for the second slot.

...

Are you claiming to have certain knowledge of how people will flip in a two faction game?

[GreyICE]

RC, I don't think anything's changed since I last posted my list a page ago. Zinger is obvscum now, and Maxous isn't doing much better than Chronopie.

I still need to get the bottom five sorted out, and

I will be semi-LA through Monday afternoon

, but I will PM a list to the mod as soon as I get it hammered out in case you surprise me by voting to lynch. If a vote to lynch hasn't passed by the time I get home, I'll probably vote then.

Will let smarg hammer lynch based on this.

[GreyICE]

I also want to make this 100% official.

The ONLY claims that will let Zinger live even one day if we hammer lynch without a claim and he is in the top 2 are:

Mason
Vigilante

Anything and

EVERYTHING

else I will ignore as I gleefully scream at people to lynch him. EVERYTHING. I hammered motherfucking FATE without a fucking claim, I can and will laugh as I do the same to Zinger.

[GreyICE]

1. smargaret - explained. (hopefully)

2. Zinger - Overly concious about people's opinion of what he says, too interested in people forgetting Ranger's actions and trying to discredit Doombunney's questions towards him by pointing out that Doombunney is also suspected. I see that as a mafia tactic.

3. Imaginality - I'm a bit suspicious that he only mentioned that he thinks KCD may of been rolefishing afterthe discussion is brought up again between Amrun and KCD. Why not earlier when he replaced in or soon after? Opportunistic maybe. Quite unsure about this also. I thought he might of been trying to twist Tragedy's words a bit to make her statement appear suspicious. So.. unsure of him.

4. Exe- Unsure about his attempt to push a case on Doombunney and how his attitude seems to be: Ghostwriter 'strongly looks town' therefore his actions should not be questioned etc.

Little surprised that Zinger vanished from the top 2 here. What promoted Exe up from #4 Maxous?



Zinger self voted, so I think that's basically a scumclaim.

[GreyICE]

GreyICE and I are on the same wavelength this game, lol.

You, GreyICE, and smargaret are on the EXACT same wavelength, apparently...

Why Maxous, all three of you?

Chronopie was horrible.
Maxous writes long walls which contain little content. Not impressed.

[GreyICE]

Scum almost assuredly have a copy of AT LEAST the Vanilla townie PM.

[GreyICE]

The above is just a question, since he obviously can't answer it. That's what is bugging me about his claim; the name is elite bodyguard, but the role is like a joat.

He has a vig shot.

A successful vig tonight means he's confirmed town unless the scum get some sort of ability that lets them double kill (spoiler: THAT'S INCREDIBLY OP).

I don't see any reason he shouldn't kill someone scummy tonight.

[GreyICE]

Okay, this just pisses me off.

[GreyICE]

Okay.

I'm gonna ask something entirely fucking crazy. Something that should never ever ever be done.

Do we lynch kcdaspot?

His role makes zero fucking sense. None. I know the names are different, but Elite Bodyguard has a VERY defined set of powers. You bodyguard someone and if a kill is submitted against them, the killer and bodyguard both die.

He's really a JOAT. Okay, JOATs don't need to be named JOAT, but I'd think they'd get at least a LITTLE bit better name. NOPE. Similarly, why 2 roleblocks? 1 bodyguard? 1 vig? It makes zero sense.

Now that I have claimed,

the mafia must kill at least 5 members of the town to have a chance to take me out of play for good.

Are you. Fucking. Shitting. Me.

A PR that can't be taken out before DAY SIX with time traveling Roleblocks, vigs, and a bodyguard?

I was initially looking at this as a JoaT before I realized how sick it was. Say we lynch scum on day 3. He can travel back to day 2 and roleblock them. If they submitted the kill, OOPS! Living CONFIRMED town player.

Anyone have a good feeling about this claim?

[GreyICE]

Does anyone have a way to find out his alignment? Jesus christ please tell us now.

[GreyICE]

Actually wait,
Maybe it's simply a no-flip game because of the possibility of reviving people.

Hmm, maybe it has nothing to with any abilities then.

If it's no flip I'm replacing out.

Jesus christ, I signed up for non-normal mechanics, not "a mish-mash game."

[GreyICE]

Ugh.

I'm sorry, the lack of reveal is seriously sapping my will to play this game. Do people want me to replace out?

[GreyICE]

I'm sorry to do this guys, but I can't give a shit with no reveal. I tried, and I can't.

Replace out

[GreyICE]

Okay, I've decided to stay in, but I have to say quite honestly that I really wish I knew Zinger's alignment.

kcdaspot blatantly didn't follow instructions, and claimed to be using the vig tonight. Coincidentally, a scum kill is missing from day 1.

Now there'll be two kills N2? And this proves him town how exactly?

Blatantly not following instructions and this makes me want to lynch him immediately as lying scum, but I keep getting stymied by the fact that if Zinger was scum then kcdaspot is almost certainly town.

So I'm kind of fucking stuck.

kcdaspot, why the FUCK did you not vig someone night 1 like you were supposed to?

[GreyICE]

kcdaspot blatantly didn't follow instructions, and claimed to be using the vig tonight. Coincidentally, a scum kill is missing from day 1.

What do you propose we do about it?

So I'm kind of fucking stuck.

Then I suppose you should act on what alignment you think Zinger was.

I'm going to see who is vigged tonight. A scum vig goes a long way towards making me feel better, a vig on someone I think is very town makes me sure that kcdaspot dies. Not following instructions is nigh on policy lynch worthy anyway.

Other than that, I guess I'll reread to see who I care about.

[GreyICE]

Vote: Lynch

I will vote for any of RedCoyote, Amrun, or MrTrow.

[GreyICE]

Have you ever expressed suspicion of me before, Grey?

Nope, but you've posted almost as much content as me today.

So I'm lynching someone I don't have a firm town read on who isn't producing content. That probably describes me too at this point, but... it's basically day 1 but more annoying today.

[GreyICE]

I just did vote to lynch.

[GreyICE]

I'd sent a 13 name list to Tasky with my lynch vote. I thought about it, and honestly figured nothing had changed, so didn't change the list. I had it down as 'submitted' in my head

[GreyICE]

Okay, I've decided that if I'm going to stay in this game I owe you slightly more effort than I'm giving it. I will say that the last time I was this unmotivated was in Walking dead, and in that game I had the problem that every single day I had to erase all my town reads and start over from scratch with the assumption that one of them was scum... aka, every day was day 1. The lack of having a single flip to work with leaves me in the same boat here. Well, a similar boat, a strong town read can't become mystery scum overnight, c'est la vie.

Zinger's self-voting is more of a null than people are giving him credit for. Many, many players play the frustrated martyr bit as town. I've seen it too many times to count. OTOH if he knew that he wasn't going to flip, it would be an EXCELLENT time for him to inject some WIFOM into the thread.

For everyone pushing Amrun: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3020678

You basically can't push Amrun AND assume that Zinger was scum, AND assume that the scum knew he'd noflip.

[GreyICE]

If we assume Zinger is town, kcdaspot scum starts to look pretty good to me.

If we assume Zinger is scum, and didn't know about the no flip, this game is going to get awfully painful awfully fast. Do we lynch Amrun today? If she flips... oh, she won't, so we don't know if Zinger was scum who thought he was giving a buddy town cred, town attacking scum, or if scum have pushed two mislynches... I don't see the town winning as a possibility.

I don't see scum going down making that sort of case on a buddy in any case. Too much attention drawn to them. Zinger scum = Amrun town, 90% certainty.

[GreyICE]

I still say C-Worl should be at the top of people's lists. I don't know why he's getting a free pass when GreyICE is somehow obvscum to people.

I don't agree with almost anything RC says. I can't even figure out how to deal with that.

Fuck it.

Vote: Lynch

This game is really frustrating me. No-flip is stupid as all hell.

For me it's because Doombunny was so very much :goodposting: that I'd hate for him to have been scum.

[GreyICE]

I am epically unable to get into this game with no flip. It's very similar to walking dead.

In walking dead, I had to eat all my town reads every day because any of them could be scum.

Here, I have no idea how I'm doing in terms of town and scum reads, because I have no idea where I was yesterday.

I'm going to soldier on, mostly because I realized it wasn't fair to throw anyone else into this, but I seriously just want to see a flip. ESPECIALLY Zinger's.

[GreyICE]

*sigh*

I guess I understand.

I hope everyone understands why it's insanely frustrating to pour 120% into a game, and then get... nothing. And then be told that I should trust the mod and try as I can day 2, and.... have the same thing happen.

Oh and:

Ranger of the North. Page 4. Bookmark it.

Obvscum was OBVIOUS

[GreyICE]

Ashmed tell = total hax

[GreyICE]

In a larger sense, I think this game suffered from a severe lack of design focus. If the goal was to showcase the time travel mechanic, then I think you should have stuck with basic, mini-normal roles. The complex and irritating voting/lynching mechanics were quite a bit to absorb. A 10:3 (perhaps a tad PR heavy) with some time machines could have made the game quite playable. As it was, this game featured:

- Bizarrely non-standard roles: the number of town PRs was limited, but their role conditions were poorly designed, concentrated power, and made ideal use of their PRs nearly impossible.
- Mafia Janitor: Less said the better.
- Mafia Traitor with nonstandard role components: What?

I really think it was just a case of having too many ideas and no one said 'no' to any of them.

[GreyICE]

Not to sound smart, but in a confirmed one-faction game we were not going to beleive that a mafia would be night killed by themselves.
We would of known they were town.

omg. you are right (except for the 1-shot vig). then I guess making the janitor lynch-too was necessary.
I feel stupid now. maybe it was lynch-revives I was worried about after all.

Actually, I would have been very tempted to shoot janitor someone night 1, and shoot-janitor myself night 2 with that mechanic. And then be resurrected via time traveling roleblocker at some point.

Which would have really driven the town insane if they lost to it, but this is why roles like 'doctor,' 'vigilante,' 'roleblocker,' 'jailkeeper,' etc. would have been better ideas.