Mini 1148 -- Spare Me Mafia (Game Over)

[Protoss]

I have 31 pages to read, on top of the rules, so don't expect much from me until I wake up tomorrow in terms of posting.

[Protoss]

I just read Nacho in iso, and I see no reason to be sparing them.

Spare: No one

[Protoss]

FoS: Fishy

For doing setup speculation, the mark of the beast.

this...
Tony is onto something here, and given that Fishy had claimed to not have a vote, something sure is fishy

[Protoss]

uh no
because taht was fucking pregame
and if scum couldn't spare their buddies
they'd be fucking told that

stop playing stupid kthx

I agree with this as well in terms of Fate playing stupid

[Protoss]

However, Fate at the end of page 5 and the top of page 6 is giving me strong town vibes, so I suppose he was possibly playing dumb as a ruse, and not as scum.

[Protoss]

lol Nachoscum is frantic

[Protoss]

I NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER SAID I HAD A TOWN READ ON YOU YOU ABSOLUTE DUMBFUCK.

lol umbrage?
more like dumb rage

[Protoss]

Chess and Dupe still look like very good people not to save.

@chess: why save Dupe?

Hmmm. I've been thinking, and I think it's worth claiming a little further -

My role doesn't interact with the saving mechanic in the normal way. I would rather not be saved today. This will not cause me to die.

I was thinking about going all jester on this; but I thought harder and it turned out to be a terrible idea.

what the fuck?
This is pretty much a scumclaim to me
I am seriously considering saving him for this

When you try to heal undead, what happens? Hmmm? Thoughts?

[Protoss]

ok, so far I've read 7 pages, and I have town reads on Fate and IS, am leaning town on CK3, and am leaning scum on Fishy, Umbrage, and Duplicity. I would be happy if any of these 3 did not receive votes today, or, well, in Fishy's case, apparently, if he DID receive a vote. If noone talks me out of it, or if my read on him doesn't improve in the next 24 pages, I am going to be putting my vote there.

[Protoss]

I know how you all hate thinking and all, but consider this:

If Fishy is scum and not actually lynch immune and we put 3 others up, then scum will get to choose who is saved. They'll pick fishy. Thus "confirming" him as what he said he was.

Very high risk - not a credible scum strategy. Also, I imagine we'd be informed of the resolution process. Naturally, me surviving the lynch doesn't confirm that I'm town, though - it might be possible to balance lynch-immune scum.

@Protoss: why is setup speculation scummy?

I was NOT referring to setup speculation. I was referring to the phrase "the mark of the beast".

Now Protoss, save Fate and realized how futile everything you've done has been.

Fate needs saved? I would definitely lend him my vote.

Spare: Fate

guess not

Protoss sparing no one right now is majorly anti-town.

G.

Of course you're going to mudsling me because you are one of my initial scumreads

I don't know if I trust Freewill

spare: Fate

I am going to go catch up. I still have about 20 pages to read.

[Protoss]

I really like Duplicity's #177
I feel bad for being suspicious of him, whichever of those hydra heads made that post and I share a lot of reads.

Umbrage in #184 is setting fire to a church, and getting away with it. He completely doubts Chesskid3's claim, which, considering he has been softclaiming up until this point, I find fully believable. Chess is reading town to me as of page 8 due to the claim.

Tony then declares he is going to spare his suspects. I like this plan, and it goes well with pulling out at the last moment, something that is always good. Umbrage doesn't like that, I wonder why. He says to "declare FoS", and is being extremely anti-town and against any radical pro-town ideas or claims so far on this page. Umbrage needs to go.

I dislike Duplicity's #182. I believe this is because I am liking one head of the hydra's posting and not the other. Is that the case? If it is not, I fully retract starting to lean town on you and put you back into the null category. I find this post scummy and erasing whatever town cred I had just started to feel you gain.

Fate and IS at the bottom of page 8, in Fate's #199, bring up a good point about Chesskid. He could potentially cause LYLO to be a town-loss, although I suppose that could be worked around since people can choose to vote for noone and a town player could still be saved letting Chesskid martyr himself. Though I find this to be cementing my townread on fate that his mind is exploring those scenarios, let's hope we don't come to the point where that is even remotely a possibility.

I like Klazam's #214, and I will probably spare him for it if he doesn't fuck it up in the next 23 pages. I agree with his reads in it, and am reading town on him finding Fate to be abrasive to the point that he is willing to call him out on it.

I like Chesskid's vig targets. I would heavily encourage you to vig Umbrage over Fate.

I don't agree with Chesskid's #299, but I'm feeling it is more trolling than breadcrumbed. I will take a second look at it if spared, but I don't want to waste time exploring a dead end if I'm just going to be sacrificed.

lol #334 from Klazam attacks Fate, but does what he wants him to do by bolding his name. I feel Fate definitely came out the better from that with Freewill. Everything happens for a reason.

OH MY GOD WHICH WINE IS POISON AND WHICH IS THE ONEY OYU )AEOFIJAOIJAFW WADAFF

they are both poison.

haven't you seen The Princess Bride?

@Fate

Also, what do you think of Chesskid's pardon claim, and IS's rolecop claim? I have seen those roles as scum way more often than town. I have pretty strong town reads on both of them, so I want to believe the claims, but how much should I question them?


Umrage is heavily rolefishing on page 14. Perhaps I am tunneling now, but I have a strong gut-read on him as being scum, and if it isn't going away after 14 pages, my strongest town read agrees with me, and he is dropping terrible noobiesque scumtells, I am not going to back down on this.

Another person I have been disliking through these 14 pages still if FishytheFish. He seems to parrot way too much. The kid can't use his own noggin, and it is making me lean scum on him, especially considering the flavor he claimed.

Umbrage is buddying up to Freewill at the bottom of page 15. I wouldn't be surprised if they were scumbuddies.

I'm through page 15, will catch up more after I get some lunch.
Cheers.

[Protoss]

So Protoss is CK3's buddy? Probably, yeah.

You're my biggest scumread, and you're calling me someone's buddy without a case whatsoever, when I have been working on the endeavor of proving your guilty.

This just damns you all the more to me, and is the typical scum reaction: "herp derp, no u"

by voting someone who already has a spare, protos makes it so the mafia get to choose at least one person not to get saved.

save someone else.
preferably protoss.

Why would I save someone who did that?

I'm sorry, Freewill, but I was unaware that I should be thinking in terms of what scum would do. I am trying to catch up, and still have ~15 pages to read.

That being said, I am not unsaving Fate, because I am making sure he lives, regardless of what anyone else does. If there is another vote on him, good. It just makes another vote on what I find to be my most solid town read, which means it is unlikely to be on scum. We need to save town, and not save scum, to lynch scum. Do you not understand that?

To be honest, I am not even sure what you mean about scum getting to pick on saves. I read the rules, but I must have missed that aspect. If you explain it to where I understand what you are saying, I would consider it, but I still doubt I would pull my spare off of Fate because I don't want the only spare on him to be from scum and to be pulled off at the last moment.

meh. both are pretty bad...

Spare: Klazam

If not me, and between those two, I feel you made the right choice. I was considering saving Klazam, but I wanted to make damn sure he was town because he hadn't really contributed enough to move past leaning for me and become a strong read.

Why the hell would I spare Protoss? He's scum.

Spare: Apok

This is akin to OMGUS in my book. I list you as the person who needs to die today the most out of what I feel are goons. Fishy, however, is probably your Godfather.

If I'm going down today, I'm taking Fishy with me, or

at the least

proving him to be a liar

Apok, in your #816, you list about 5-6 scum or leaning scum.
HOW MANY SCUM ARE THERE OUT OF 13? LOL

Sad to see Klazam replace out, but hopefully his replacement will post more than he has

I'm going to start reading past page 15

[Protoss]

I don't have flavor, either.

I don't want to white Knight Chesskid, because I hate him more than everyone else here combined, BUT LYNCHING A VIG BECAUSE YOU THINK HELL SHOOT WRONGLY IS FUCKIN STUPID.


Yes he's trolling. But when it MATTERS he's actually going to shoot scum.


Now holy fucking hell let's kill Free Will. HE CAME BACK, IGNORED ALL MY POINTS, AND JUMPED ON THE "CHess is dumb kill chess" WAGON.

THIS IS FUCKIN OBVIOUS

I wouldn't be surprised if he was scum with Umbrage, especially considering recent developments I've seen out of Umbrage in responding to my pressure, and where his save vote just went.

NONONO

CHESSKID3 IS SCUM.

THERE IS NO REASON TO THINK HE IS A VIG.

THERE IS PLENTY OF REASON TO THINK HE IS SCUM.

HOW MANY TOWNIES HAVE TO DIE BEFORE YOU SEE THE FUCKING TRUTH?

NOW TAKE OFF YOUR FREE WILL TUNNEL GOGGLES AND PLAY THIS GAME.

Speak of the devil. Typical scum reaction. "No, you're wrong" There is no evidence/case here, just typical scum-WIFOMspiral

Umbrage, also, in his #380, just quotes Fate a bunch to appear pro-town, when in fact, he is just trying to fake it. He said "I don't need to say anything else", when

he hasn't even said anything at all.

Umbrage and Klazam then go on to argue in thread. I am beginning to feel like they may be scumbuddies trying to distance, or perhaps Scumbrage is fed up that Klazam hasn't been that active. That would explain why he replaced out.

Duplicity gets town points for arguing the way sane town would argue against Umbrage's WIFOM.

1) A) I have an unorthodox view of WIFOM - I believe the word WIFOM is overused and that a large deal of actions that are called or put of as WIFOM are things that you can actually draw from.
2) I can agree that he seems to be impulsive, but what difference does that have to a potential second possibly to prevent the 3 way scenario.
5) I do agree with you here, I believe I stated so earlier - A vig along has no chance at being a realistic counter to mafia-mafia saving. There indeed DOES have to be something else - And from the claims we've had today none of them solve it completely.

1. A) It's WIFOM in the sense that the argument "he said this, therefore he's town" can be dispelled with "but scum would know saying that would make them look town, therefore he's scum".
2. I'm fairly certain he doesn't have a governor ability.

He fakeclaims even when town.

Even in this quote, scumbrage just slipped. "He fakeclaims even when town"

He is fakeclaiming

even when town?

Umbrage's wordchoice is a slip here. Don't even act like implying it lets him off. You know he is scum.

Me? Are you fucking high?

I outed Free Will scum, YOU scum, and Duplicity scum.


I defended chesskid after trolling him and getting plenty of reads.

You realize you're really bad at scum, right?

I agree with two of your reads so far at this point of my reading
not bad
I feel like Klazam or Fishy being scum with Freewill/Umbrage is much more likely than Duplicity.
I don't see Duplicity/Umbrage as a scumteam due to their interactions thusfar.

Fate, you're right about Freewill, and wrong about Umbrage. Umbrage is going after chesskid. chesskid is liable to shoot you in the face if you go after him.

Also, Umbrage clearly means it. This guy's town.

I believe that currently we have:
No Safe Votes (6) (Apokalyptika - Nachomamma8 - Klazam -

FishytheFish

- Duplicity - Freewill)
A pretty good list, actually. I'd like Nacho and Duplicity saved from this list. Nacho isn't in the game, which is better than you can say for the others. Duplicity I thought was scum early, but when I reread my gut says town - something about the hydra disagreements sound real.

@Fate: how do you play differently as scum than town?

LOL SPEAK OF THE DEVIL

UMBRAGE IS SO TOWN BRO

Seriously, I'm sitting here about to let you off of the hook because Klazam, Freewill and scumbrage look to be buddying to me so much, and then WHAM you go and deductively let one of them off the hook, because my hook is definitely a fishhook now, and I'm not ever going to give up on Umbrage being scum in this game.

Fate? Buddying to someone as scum?

Are you sane umbrage?

lol this guy is probably town too
he realized scumbrage is insane
that is good enough for me

So why does Fate and Chesskid get to dictate who lives and dies anyways? First off, I dont trust them.

Second of all, I dont trust Tony. Tony has been way too quiet this game, but has been around. He isnt contributing anything, no opinions, no comments, no attacks, nod efenses. Just nothing. In fact, all that Tony has done is park a spare vote on my #1 suspect and disappear.

If I think Chesskid is scum and he needs two votes to survive, its highly unlikely that he could get two random townies to kneel before him and gobble him just to keep him around. No, one of Chesskid's minions have to be voting for him. Klazam has at least came in and taken some shots at people, but Tony hasnt done shit.

If you want further cooperation from me, if you want me to stop asking for Chesskid's head (at least until tomorrow), add Tony to the death list. I dont care who you take off. Otherwise, all youre doing is cementing yourselves as SCUM for protecting a supposedly inconsequential townie (That is likely to be goomba scum).

I disagree with a lot of this, but I feel this is the "I want to be the guy to catch all the scum" town reaction that people will sometimes get when they are playing a game with someone who is taking over it such as Fate is doing in this situation. IS is probably town.

Just because you say so? I think not. Whatever Fate, youre not Mayor McCheese. If someone agrees with me about Tony, they will do as they please.

There is no wrath of Fate, no wrath of Chesskid. They are just scum, protecting their boy Tony. At this point, im advocating that everyone just do whatever the hell they want and not listen to these scumclowns. Spare whoever the hell you want, dont get manipulated by these scum.

However, if he is going to continue pushing reads like this, I wouldn't mind IS dying.

He is pushing on two of my strong town reads, and lumping in someone I am null on. Disliking this. I am still fairly certain he is town, but even someone who is town can be bad for the town's health.

Damn Stranger, I am continiually amazed by your ability to nail the entire scumteam D1.

Maybe I should bus instead of obvdefend my buddies... ill try that next time I'm scum never bussed before...

I'd respond to this, but there's really nothing to respond to. Just empty sarcasm.

Let me take a moment to state something as clear as possible: The main reason I think you could be scum is because you've been ignoring everything everyone says and pushing your own agenda.

I doubt scum would be as obvious as you and chesskid3, but I don't see any other possibilities.

This is another admission that Fate and Chesskid are town if Umbrage flips scum.

My agenda is to lynch scum, so yeah I tend to ignore what dumbfuck townies have to say, and I usually lynch them because they are a liability.

Yeah, I agree with this. There is a difference in someone following the lead of a town power role, and tunneling to the point where they vote wrong in LYLO like I'm afraid Internet Stranger would do with those crap reads.

Umbrage's #447 is using kidnapping as a ploy. That's not scummy or anything. This guy is obvious.

I just fucking messed up all my posts from 19-21, oh well, onwards!

In Umbrage's #523, he wrote: "FACT: Scum will always kill a confirmed power role over anyone else."
Is that why you're trying to put Chesskid on the chopping block?

Hm...

@ Internet Stranger: Do you know of any way we can learn of your investigation result if you are killed tonight?

WOW, REALLY?
LOL

Hm...

@ Internet Stranger: Do you know of any way we can learn of your investigation result if you are killed tonight?

ROLEFISHING.

Right. Because having a dead cop with no means of data retrieval is a good thing. How in the world did you figure that's what scum would say?

Klazam really has to go.

no no no no no
I agree with Klazam
Scum would want a rolecop, it benefits them tremendously for outting power roles. Even if someone is a VT, well, then they know not to night kill them unless they are breathing down their necks.

duplicity comes in with a wall that shows why some people feel they are scum. It is just one of the hydra heads not keeping up with the game

@Fishy: if you're going to claim that shit, claim it. Otherwise you're anti-town and making our life harder. And I don't like when life is hard.

I'm done claiming. I don't have a vote, I don't die if not spared, and I'd rather not be spared - that's all for now.

Remember this, Tony? Why would he not want to be spared?
Remember when you said "mark of the beast"?
I feel like if he is spared, he will die.

Question for everyone: do you really expect three people to die from today's lynch?

I'd expect two

Look, there's just a tad bit too much Tony on the line here.

There surely are better ways to fill a lynch. Like with the Apok/Vezok/Umbrage trio, for instance.

I like this reaction, and I feel the same way. I don't see why I am not being spared right now. I would much rather see Umbrage on the chopping block, at the threat of a CK3 vig on whoever is sparing him. Vezo/IS/Klazam are all people the town could afford to lose more for either having terrible reads or being dumb and unhelpful.

Oh wait, Dupe's already spared by his scumbuddy. Oh well. KLAZAM, COME ON UP HERE AND CLAIM YOUR PRIZE!!!

Fate, in regards to the above quote, remember when I posted earlier in this post that I agreed with two of your reads? I see no fucking way that both duplicity and umbrage are on the same scumteam.

Umbrage: I do not understand your logic for refusing to allow a vig to live one night to see whether he has a real power or not.

This. Let's kill a town powerrole that can be confirmed. Who would want to do that? HMMM.

Okay, two things.

@Umbrage:
How does CK's role work for scum? Mafia are worried above surviving above everything else. So, making scum need 2 votes to survive means that he will HAVE to claim it D1, no matter what. This means that scumbuddies will have to be VERY careful about saving him, since there's not really a chance Mr. Two-Votes-to-live will survive to LyLo, and RC says "look at the voting records" in one of his first posts, meaning that CK will have to rely mostly on town votes to save him, which probably won't come unless he fakeclaims something awesome (and awesome things are usually counterclaimed). And of all things, he claims vig. Now, as scum, that's a fucktarded fakeclaim. You can only go "herpderp I got blocked" for so long. The only way he would be able to get away with it is if scum get two kills everytime chesskid gets 2 votes, but that's ridiculously overpowered and stupid, considering our town counterbalance in that situation would be a rolecop power for two votes. In other words, chesskidscum means that he's quite literally bus fodder.

@Freewill:
Do you know why we have bankable deadlines? So we can have an incentive for having one lynch days. Do we want everyone to die in a blood-crazed frenzy, or do we want to plan our shit out and be tactical and discuss thoroughly? The choice is ours, just like the world.

I really like the above post. Nacho is giving me a strong town read, way moreso than a lot of people who have quadruple the number of posts. I agree that claiming vig as scum is usually a terrible claim. On D1? No fucking way would anyone intelligent make that claim as scum.

I didn't notice the bankable deadlines. We sure have been using it... :/
I personally preach against drawn out days. I feel like it only helps scum manipulate who lives, and who dies. Seeing myself up for sacrificing nearing the deadline isn't surprising, considering how long this cycle has gone.

If there was no claim, CK turns up dead D1, Unless his scum buddies save him.
If there was no claim, I just dont get to investigate. Unfortunate, but its not DEATH.

If there was no claim, CK dies. If scumbuddies try to put 2 saves on someone, people are going to ask why. So, again, CK scum would have to draw all that attention Day 1.

But the fact that CK needs a vote to SURVIVE throws everything off. Why dont I need a vote to live, but he does? I claimed as an example that im about as town as it gets and I dont need a vote to survive, but somehow CK is more townie than me and needs that vote? If those are restrictions for a town, then what could possibly be a restriction for scum? Nothing? They already have an inherent advantage from the setup (assuming they can just save each other), needing two votes is an awesome equalizer FOR THE SCUM.

What balances out Chesskid? Fishy.
Fishy is pretty much an innocent child at this point because his role is too damn broken for him to be scum. Hell, he doesn't NEED a save vote to live, he just goes on surviving. If he was scum, we would be absolutely screwed because the only way we could kill him is by vigging him, and that's just stupid considering the setup is scum-leaning.

Why do you have an optional vote for power? To give town more power over the choosing aspect.
If we are more bloodthirsty, we have more votes to spare.
Thus, we're able to keep chessvig in the game (moar bloodlust), and you can investigate people (more power).
If we want to be more careful, we don't get to keep chessvig, and you don't get to investigate.
Plus, don't you see how you, chesskid, and fishy balance one another out?

Chess - Needs 2 votes to live.
You - Could use 2 votes for bonuses, only need one.
Fishy - Doesn't need any votes to live.


Anyways, I like my Kool-Aid.

I disagree with you here, Nacho. Fishy could easily not be telling us what's up, and in fact, he has said as much. In his iso #9 he says he is "done claiming for now", and then the point is furthered in his iso #11 where he says "I have no intention of fullclaiming, I will just hurt the town".

Isn't him claiming what he has claimed fishy enough? The fact he isn't adding to that, and isn't being pressured, is mind-boggling to me. Noone is gunning for him "because he can't die" by not being spared. Big deal. We have a vig for a fucking reason.

Chesskid

: please vig Fishy. Trust me on this one. His role is the scum-balance of yours. If you are an angel, he is a demon. If you are the yin, he is the yang. You require one more vote, he requires one less.

[Protoss]

I feel like if I were to vote you, and the deadline to end, you would die.

[Protoss]

I am waiting for that point to mind control you.

[Protoss]

I don't see how you can believe Umbrage is town. CK3 and Fate appear town to me. I am not quite sure if it's Klazam or Freewill with them, but I know that Umbrage is scum with Fishy and
I believe that if you are town, CK3 has to be scum
I believe IS is the town cop, and CK3 the town vigilante
I am hesitant to not put a 3rd vote on CK3 because of Duplicity's #784 in reference to Klazam's willingness to take his vote off of CK3, even if Fate is a strong town read, because Fate might just be a townie. Tony Montana's vote is weak as well, as I am questioning whether or not he has even been really reading this game. A vigilante is more important than a townie.

spare: CK3

[Protoss]

Umrage, you are obviously scum, so I should probably ignore you

Vezokpiraka, Fishy not needing a spare vote is suspicious to me, and I don't see why it isn't to you. Like I have said, I believe that if you were to put your vote on him it would possibly kill him. Why else would he claim anything that would be a hindrance? Oh, that role would be imbalanced for scum isn't going to cut it in my eyes. I have read games where there are factions that have mechanics in place where scum and town have a role that acts outside of cycles. With the sparing mechanic, I am seeing what appears to be town powers that require extra sparing. To make up for this, I would not be surprised in the least if there was a scum PR that existed without needing to be saved. These could be the measures in place RC was talking about to not force scum into a voting triangle.


Freewill, I would trust you more if your reads were better. I have read the game completely, and am confirmed to myself, so I don't know what to tell you.

Duplicity, The only thing that I'm willing to claim is that I don't trust TM or Klazam to keep our town vig alive, and I did it because of one of your posts, #784, which advocates considering who is likely to unvote. Scum have the ulterior motive of not keeping town PRs alive. I am making sure that happens.

Town so far to me are like so:

Myself,
CK3 our vig,
IS our cop,
Fate

Leaning town:

Vezokpiraka
Apok
Duplicity
Nacho

Null:

TonyMontana

Leaning Scum:

Klazam,
Freewill

Scum:

Umbrage,
Fishy

Use this list when I die and am clear

[Protoss]

you could do the same. I don't trust you with CK3's life.

[Protoss]

You said I'm either someone who doesn't follow the game at all, or scum, when I am neither.

[Protoss]

Goodbye cruel world
GO TOWN

[Protoss]

You're saving TonyMontana over me, you don't have any room to talk!

[Protoss]

It could be, you know, in his #829 where he lists you as scum
just sayin

[Protoss]

It does if you change from town who doesn't read to town who does, but I believe it is too late anyways.