Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[Doombunny9]

Why me AND kcdaspot, doombunny? That seems inconsistent with your earlier questioning. You asked me questions (fine), got my answer, and then was basically like, "Okay, I get that."

I got as far with you as I was going to without turning it into a back and forth. I still dislike your reasoning for kcda although you have improved recently which is why you're #2 rather than 1. And yes, it may be true that you and kcda aren't scum together but I still have reads that put one of you there. I have NEVER said you are both scum, just that you are both scummy. My list wasn't about who I thought was the scumteam, it was about who the most scummy people are.

[Amrun]

What about the reasoning don't you like? Why is back and forth bad?

What is the point of FoSing two separate people you don't think are scum together?

If you don't like my reasoning on kcdaspot being scum, why did you agree with mine and proceed to effectively FoS kcdaspot yourself?

Present your unique reasoning on kcdaspot scum, please.

[Doombunny9]

What about the reasoning don't you like? Why is back and forth bad?

I don't think you really understand what a back and forth is. Its when two people just keep repeating the same points over and over in an arguement without getting anywhere. In this case, I can keep questioning you about Kcda but you'd just keep going on about how there was nothing more scummy going on at the time. There's not many good questions I can think of right now regarding this that couldn't be answered with "It was the most scummy post at the time"

What is the point of FoSing two separate people you don't think are scum together?

If I were to only be FoSing and focusing on one, the other would basically get a free pass. Considering how neither of you are more clear than the other, this is a bad idea.

If you don't like my reasoning on kcdaspot being scum, why did you agree with mine and proceed to effectively FoS kcdaspot yourself?

Present your unique reasoning on kcdaspot scum, please.

My reasoning for thinking kcda is scum (as already stated) is that he seems to be buddying up to you, has a lot of fluff posts in comparison to his other posts, seems to just be creating noise be spreading his posts out rather than just all at once, and that his reasoning for a good portion of his cases are weak and unsubstantial. The reasoning that I didn't like from yours was that you called him your top scumread for making a joke which i) i disagree with and ii) was apperantly the best you could come up with for a good portion into the day.

[Amrun]

I did call him my top scumread, not for making a joke, but whatever. I did that on page 1, so it's not like there was more to add to the case, and it's not like a top scumread at that point means a lot.

He has proceeded to keep making himself suspicious, so he has stayed at the top of my list. I don't see how it's that hard to figure out or how that is scummy in any way shape or form.

[Tasky]

LYNCHCOUNT 1.4

LYNCH (1/8): GhostWriter
NO LYNCH (12): MrTrow, Chronopie, Mist7676, RedCoyote, smargaret, Amrun, Tragedy, RangeroftheNorth, Doombunny9, Kcdaspot, GreyICE, Exe

Deadline is 30.04.2011, 19:00 CET.

__

(Pseudo-)Votes

RangeroftheNorth (1): Exe
Doombunny9 (1): RangeroftheNorth, MrTrow
Chronopie (1): Kcdaspot

Not Voting (10): Chronopie, Mist7676, RedCoyote, smargaret, Amrun, Tragedy, GhostWriter, Doombunny9, GreyICE

[RedCoyote]

RC, I voted for Kcdaspot, but votes don't count towards lynch in this game. It's effectively an FoS and I don't see a problem with doing that.

Liar, liar, pants on fire.

Vote: Amrun

Also, I fail to see how asking a direct question of Exe is WIFOM.

Cute. You think I'm going to fall for that? You know full well what you're doing. I've played this game too long. We both know perfectly well what point you were making. WIFOM isn't necessarily scummy, but it sure as heck ain't townie. You trying to act so cute and innocent about it definitely tips it from null to scummy.

By the by, you are actually going on the top of my list, hon. No joke.

---

Working on the assumption of three:

Ranger
Smargret
{Doombunny/EXE}

I look forward to you expanding on this.

---

I forgot that votes were secret. I have bad memory.

Are you going to commit to this game or not? This is the second time you've given us this. Read over the rules or replace out. I know the Mod asked us specifically not to replace out, but, I suspect he would much rather you do it now than after D1.

---

I don't think the questions that Doombunny asked are in any way helpful to finding scum, and thus I see no reason to answer them. That's my general feeling on RQS. I recognize that this feeling isn't terribly common or popular, but it does not reflect on my alignment.

I, for one, could care less if you answer them or not. However, if you choose not to answer them, then you better damn well contribute to the game (not to say that people who

do

answer them don't have to contribute, but you get my point).

Looking over Doombunny9's ISO, he has been consistently posting without doing any serious scum hunting. He's pointed out the problems in other people's theories, and has occasionally agreed with them, but he has yet to put forward any original ideas, and he hasn't done anything to help with finding scum.

I don't get how you could have a scumread on Amrun and a worse one on Doombunny. It's clear that he was helping pressure Amrun here. I mean, did he not, in your opinion, do so genuinely? You say that he's not doing any serious scumhunting, but one of his main targets is Amrun. This just seems a little backwards when you say this.

---

Of note on this last one is the last line. Apparently, you can catch scum with the first one being used as the majority of discussion.

Also, note that he says that we should have more going on by page 3 of a game with extremely weird mechanics. Before that post, Amrun began to suspect Kcda, Smar had begun pointing at Amrun about interaction with Kcda, Exe was pressuring Kcda, and Trow was pressuring Exe. Seems like a good start to me, whilst discussing game related mechanics. I assume mafia know a bit more of the mechanics than we do and he wanted to keep it that way. The buddying to me he feels like he's been doing also bugs me. Especially when talking about Kcda buddying to Amrun.

This is a much better observation than Ranger put together. I think you make some good points here and have some creditable ideas. This gives my Doombunny townread a bit of a blow, for sure.

---

Do we want to release the top three living names on our lists? I'm worried that if we don't and if scum communicates we could wind up with two obvious townies on the chopping block.

I'm releasing my whole list, and I encourage others to do the same. Now, if people don't want to based on silly political views that "townreads should be hidden" or whatever, then, okay, I'm not going to push on that too hard. I don't want to get into a political debate over townreads. Let's just make a truce that if someone doesn't want to give out their townreads, I won't get pissy at them, but, in turn, they can't get pissy when I release my full list. If someone has a problem with this, they need to speak up.

---

Top 3 if we went right now?

1) Chronopie

Quit trolling.

Amrun on kcda is not scum on scum, try again smarg. This time with less waffles.

Maybe not, but one of them is scum and we can stand to lose them both. Just sayin'.

Skimming the thread is one thing. He didn't even bother to check what was going on, just called the biggest debate TvT. Which was Amrun v. kcdaspot... and he didn't even remember Amrun.

I'll give you this. I think he skimmed too, but that is certainly not the biggest scumtell around. Get real, Grey. Especially with all your page 4 nonsense, I think you're doing this for the shock value more than anything else.

---

The last time I see you listing suspects is on Saturday afternoon, Amrun - has nothing changed in your opinion since then?

What's your point? This is kind of antsy sounding. Why would she change her suspicions every two days? It's not like there were any big revelations since then. I don't know what you're trying to get at here.

---

Essentially, you're doing exactly what Chrono is doing: attempting to appear pro-town by calling for relevant discussion, without actually giving any relevant discussions.
Also, your apology for your absence shows that you're clearly more concerned with making peace to notice the real issue, which is a scumtell in my book.

I agree with this completely, but it should be noted that Chrono has a townie leg to stand on with his first post. Chrono should be seen as town far before Ranger, regardless of either players skimming.

---

I really am town, though. I tend to suck early game as town. I don't know why. This is something I really need to work on.

Oh, cry my a river. "Poor me! I'm so town but I can't get it across! Boo hoo! I don't know why! I promise I'll work on it... just don't suspect me, please! ;_;"

kcdaspot and I are OBVIOUSLY not scum together. I mean, seriously. It should be obvious.

No, that's not obvious at all. It's perfectly standard for scum to distance from their buddies. It's not "obvious" that people who suspect each other can't be scum together.

To clarify, to say that both kcdaspot and I are both scum without some sort of extensive explanation as to how this is possible (which I have not seen) is just throwing vague suspicion on the two people that have stirred up the most shit so far and looks very much like opportunistic scum to me.

I've got a perfect reasoning. I don't care for either of y'alls play so it wouldn't phase me in the slightest with losing either of you as town for the chance at lynching one or both of you as scum.

The fact that you're so virulently against it just makes me want to do it more, you know.

---

amrun.. Chrono has the worst post all game. and so... why am i still scum on page 10?

What a horrible reason. You care to elaborate, or are you perfectly fine with looking like you're piggybacking on Grey?

Oh, by the way, why me = fry me, friend.

---

Hell, RC goes missing once in a while. 0.0

It's not really missing, I just don't post as often as you guys do. I don't check the site from my phone. I work and go to school full time. When I log on, I like to catch up on all of my games in one extended sitting for the most part.

Anyways, Amrun knows I've been afk since we're in another game together, she's just trying to make some noise in order to call attention away from her scumminess.

---

1. Amrun
   
2. Kcdaspot
   
3. RangeroftheNorth
   
4. smargaret
   
5. Mist7676
   
6. Doombunny9
   
7. Tragedy
   
8. MrTrow
   
9. Exe
   
10. GreyICE
    
11. Chronopie
    
12. GhostWriter

I'll probably be putting my list in every post from this point forth. It's 12 players long because I'm obviously on the bottom of my list (as I'd expect everyone else to put themselves).

[Amrun]

Would you like to direct me to this supposed "lie?". I don't see it.

Also I didn't mention just you specifically with lurkers. It was still true. Go vGla if you're not available.

I see some of the points against me but not others. All in all, I'm pretty confident I won't be lynched today and that it will be unfortunate for me to be put on the block.

[GreyICE]

Top 3 if we went right now?

1) Chronopie

Quit trolling.

No his post was clearly intended to make it look like he was following the game, while providing no input whatsoever, and he clearly was beyond skimming, he wasn't even paying attention.


That's pure scum.

Amrun on kcda is not scum on scum, try again smarg. This time with less waffles.

Maybe not, but one of them is scum and we can stand to lose them both. Just sayin'.

It's not town on town? Why.



__

Quote fixed. Tasky

[Mist7676]

Guys stop voting people! They dont count!

Vote: Lynch

V/LA FOR TODAY

[Tragedy]

Guys stop voting people! They dont count!

Vote: Lynch

V/LA FOR TODAY

We

"do"

know that...
It was just for

fun and

checking people on whose pretty scummy in their list.

[Doombunny9]

I'm releasing my whole list, and I encourage others to do the same. Now, if people don't want to based on silly political views that "townreads should be hidden" or whatever, then, okay, I'm not going to push on that too hard. I don't want to get into a political debate over townreads. Let's just make a truce that if someone doesn't want to give out their townreads, I won't get pissy at them, but, in turn, they can't get pissy when I release my full list. If someone has a problem with this, they need to speak up.

Fair enough although rather than picking and choosing who goes where exactly since some people are very close, I'm just going to clump people into groups:

Scummy: My top three from before
Null-scummy: Mist (Lurks and doesn't post much when she does. Doesn't post opinions on people and doesn't add much), ROTN (Reasons already stated)
Null: Trow, Chrono, Grey
Null-Town: Tragedy, GW
Town: Exe, RC

@Mist- Can we have your list please? As just stated, you haven't provided any opinions on players at all today. Your last three posts didn't even mention anybody, just talked about votes. In fact, only TWO posts of your involved any actual scumhunting at all.

[MrTrow]

Sorry for my recent inactivity (a diplomacy-game started somewhat sooner than expected), i`ll try to keep/catch up (long weekend coming/should turn out fine).

You claim not to act on lynch-all-lurkers alone, (avoiding to make more scum-slips after already having made one, isn`t a policy, it`s a scumtell).
So why are you, someone who doesn`t believe in going after lurkers, interressted in how passive someone has to be to be considered a lurker?

I don't really understand what you're asking here, could you rephrase it? I don't recall talking about how passive someone has to be to be a lurker in this game.

@Everyone
- What is your opinion of policy lynches and Lynch all Lurkers/Lynch all Liars in particular?
I also only follow Lynch all Lurkers if there is other evidence to support them being scum

- How active are you?

kcdaspot and I are OBVIOUSLY not scum together. I mean, seriously. It should be obvious.

No, that's not obvious at all. It's perfectly standard for scum to distance from their buddies. It's not "obvious" that people who suspect each other can't be scum together.

I have to agree with this one, i still have to dive into the link between those 2. But that 1 post completely destroyed the 'probably not scum on scum vibe' i had.


I also just noticed this:

And one more thing: This shouldn't need to be mentioned but any killing roles should kill and when docs see a dead power role they should go back in time and protect them for an insta-clear.

Note this requires a doc with a timemachine (with all time travelers being 'some kind of hider' even if they have nothing else, this is quite a powerfull role, thus a big assumption)
Posting this in the 'end of mechanics-discussion'-post isn`t really helping you

[Doombunny9]

Note this requires a doc with a timemachine (with all time travelers being 'some kind of hider' even if they have nothing else, this is quite a powerfull role, thus a big assumption)
Posting this in the 'end of mechanics-discussion'-post isn`t really helping you

Have you even been reading my posts? For the

Last

time: Mechanic discussion is fine, just as long as it doesn't get in the way of scumhunting. I have never said that mechanic discussion should stop, only mechanic discussion that everyone understands.

I'm not going to repeat that again.

Also, My "How active are you" question was meant to get a feeling of how active various people would be so I could get a feeling of how well the activity levels would be like.

[Tragedy]

And one more thing: This shouldn't need to be mentioned but any killing roles should kill and when docs see a dead power role they should go back in time and protect them for an insta-clear.

Note this requires a doc with a timemachine (with all time travelers being 'some kind of hider' even if they have nothing else, this is quite a powerfull role, thus a big assumption)

Where did this come from?

[Doombunny9]

The quote came from me and at the time, I was under the impression that everyone had a time machine of some strength. Anyway, if there is a doc with a time machine, he should still be going back to revive dead townies.

[Kcdaspot]

Meh amrun is my mason buddy. They tell me I shouldn't lynch my mason buddies before day 3 or so.

just reading through...

amrun confirmed one post later.

who caught this?

is this real?

[Kcdaspot]

RotN:

scumlist. we need one.

[Kcdaspot]

General question to mod:

Hypothetically: could we go into any phase in the past or future and do our action?

say like if a vig for someone by a specific post "I go to D3 and shoot x before the 2nd votecount."

i don't think that has been cleared up yet.

[smargaret]

1. Amrun
2. DB/Mist
3.
4. Ranger
5. KCD
6. Chrono
7. Grey

Past this is nulltown or town.

Grey, Amrun v KCD is not likely to be TvT, not with the subsequent posts from both of them. If I think either one could be scum, regardless of whether they're scum together, they both go on the scummy side of the list. You should note that I didn't put them 1/2 on my list.

Trow's latest is goodposting.

I find it amusing (read: scummy) that Mist pops in, posts fluff, votes to lynch, and doesn't provide a list or ask any sort of question. Also, the two questions she's asked have not been followed up on at all - there's definitely something going on as far as Mist not contributing. The reason she and DB are tied for second is because I have more to go on from DB (so I'm more confident in my read), and a DB flip would be more informative in terms of connections than a Mist flip, but Mist is slightly more likely to be scum (very slightly, IMO, but Mist has done more scummy things - I just can't be as certain that they're legitimately scum-motivated and not Mist being Mist) and I haven't figured out which way the balance should tip.

[GreyICE]

I've said it before, I'll say it again Smarg. Whenever all your scumreads are newer/less experienced/less skilled players, ask yourself if it's really that easy.

The answer is usually no.

I would not be overly surprised if Amrun v. kcda was TvT. If you want my opinion, and I've been holding it back to see the responses, kcdaspot is fairly obvtown and I'll be treating suspicion without reason on him as fairly scummy from here on out. Amrun... is worse. Much worse. That being said, deep under Chrono and RotN.

[Tasky]

Hypothetically: could we go into any phase in the past or future and do our action?

say like if a vig for someone by a specific post "I go to D3 and shoot x before the 2nd votecount."

I quote the rules:

"2.1.3 You can move only by an integer number of days. In particular this means that you can't travel from day to night or vice-versa."

Clarification: If you travel through time you may only specify what phase you travel to (only night-to-night or day-to-day).

So in your example a Night-Vig could only travel to another night to kill.
A day-vig could travel to another day to kill but wouldn't be allowed to specify which "post" to travel to.

[smargaret]

Grey, then we're going to disagree about Kcd's obvtownieness. However, you should note he's down at 5 on my list. Why are you being so defensive about my read on someone else?

[GreyICE]

Grey, then we're going to disagree about Kcd's obvtownieness. However, you should note he's down at 5 on my list. Why are you being so defensive about my read on someone else?

I'm pissed.

Whenever someone looks at a fight, and goes "that's town on scum, lets lynch both," well, if I had a dayvig I'd be getting itchy trigger finger.

[smargaret]

Me too, GreyICE.

Whenever someone looks at what I wrote and says I said something completely different, well, if I had a dayvig I'd be getting itchy trigger finger too.

[GreyICE]

Right now it's Amrun/DB/Ranger/Kcd for me, the last three may shift some.

Smarg

This clearly didn't take a stand on the argument. At all. It provided no analysis, no conclusion, all it did was say that 'my list will contribute towards getting one of the two lynched.'

If Amrun is obvscum to you, then kcda HAS to be town, because this is not a scum double bus.