Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[Maxous]

Okay, finished the first read-through.
I finished late so I'll post my general first impression/thoughts and explain the reasoning with quotes etc either tomorrow or Friday.

Amrun is the number one choice for a lynch. Her suspicion on Kcdaspot looks quite artificial. - I'll explain this tomorrow/Friday

As for Kcdaspot himself something does'nt look right either. He accused GhostWriter of being mafia as GhostWriter was 'tunneling' on him (he was'nt) and that is 'what mafia do'(town do it as well). He dropped this suspicion of GhostWriter completely after GhostWriter stopped questioning him.
I.E. accusing GhostWriter of being mafia looked like a deflection.

Amrun and GreyICE are protesting

way

too much that Amrun and Kcdaspot cannot be mafia together.
Amrun at least twice mentioned this when somebody said Amrun and Kcdaspot are among thier 2 biggest suspects. This does'nt neccessarily mean they are mafia together but they are who that person thinks are the most likely to be mafia.
Amrun is not stating 'that is wrong because I'm town etc.' but driving in the idea that they cannot be

together

. This could fit with how she seemed to go out of her way to make Kcdaspot her top suspect early on (more on that, tomorrow/Friday) and Kcdaspot mentioning she is town every second post early game.

There seems to be bit of a case on Doombunney9 which I disagree with. His early post was misinterpreted - where he said the town should talk about things other than the game mechanics. People took this as 'the town should'nt talk about game mechanics at all' which is not what he meant (I think). The other accusation is buddying but I don't see it to be honest.

I did'nt think Ranger of the North was overly suspicious. He won't get a medal for great pro-town work but he seemed more disinterested than anything else. Ironically his replacement has looked more suspect.
However by the way, 'shot himself in the foot' is not saying your replacee was 'scummy'

Tragedy seems to be floating along here. Not neccessarily scummy as some town do it as well..but keeping an eye on her.

I'm unsure about smagaret after the read. I'll look over her again later and see if I can come to a conclusion..(I have a feeling I won't though)

The five players I did'nt mention, I think are town at this point.
Back later then =)

[Zinger2099]

However by the way, 'shot himself in the foot' is not saying your replacee was 'scummy'

To be clear, I never did say that I thought RotN was scummy because I never once felt that he was scum. It would be illogical to get a scum-read on someone I know is town. I simply pointed out that he didn't do me any favours by getting on most of everyone's 'to lynch' list.

The irony is that in pointing out this fact I shot myself in the foot much worse than RotN ever did. Oh well, live and learn. My experience playing this game is from a different forum (I am new to mafiascum, I usually play on Px2), and the meta there is pretty different.

[smargaret]

You know, the one time I saw the Amished tell work, it came from a newbie. I don't buy that coming from a different meta makes things any different.

[Amrun]

I've had the Amished tell applied to me when I was town and didn't know not to do it, but it's less reliable for females due to psychology. Despite having been burned, I still think it's a pretty reliable tell. It doesn't have anything to do with meta. It's a psychology thing.

[Zinger2099]

I've never heard of this amished tell before now. I'd say that has something to do with the meta if it's something that is used here but not elsewhere.

[smargaret]

the newbie I saw caught by it was female, FWIW.

[Zinger2099]

Earlier:

Whenever someone's scumreads strongly resemble 'the easiest players in the game to get lynched' there's a fucking problem.

Recently:

Hey look guys! There's the guy who replaced in for someone we mostly thought was scum, and he acknowledged that RotN didn't play well too! If there was an '

easier

' target for scrutiny, I'm not seeing it. obvscum-obvscum-obvscum.

lol. I am amused by his blatant disregard for his own logic. GreyICE needs to take his own medicine.

[Amrun]

Just because we have a name for it here (and not that many people use it by name) doesn't mean it has to do with meta. The meta part is the name. The psychology holds true anywhere.

Also, #481 is a huge stretch. It's not even remotely the same thing.

[Doombunny9]

1. I have a town read on GW.
2. You're mudslinging.
3. Oh wait, that's all I wanted to say.

1. Yeah, because people who are pro-town NEVER do anything scummy and even if they did, it should be completely ignored because there's absolutely no way they can be scum! Good reasoning there.
2. Erm, how exactly? Because I'm saying you're only picking out the things you want to see? And this isn't legit because...?

This post was terribad. I'm going to have to rethink my stance on you.

in any case.... I may have to claim.... the nature of this game kind of warrants it...

You're allowed one post if you're one of the two candidates for a lynch. There's no reason to do it now unless it's that important.

Also @Kcda- Question ignoring FTW?

[GhostWriter]

We did not do the same thing. I left nothing to the imagination. I specifically said buddying language. No one knew what it was, no one made guesses to what it was, no one made interpretations of it. I then pointed out what I saw as the buddying language. There was nothing more to say on the matter. You denying it, of all things, is certainly not going to make me want to defend my stance. Why defend my stance to the guy I think is scum? As for everyone else, they either agree with it, or they disagree with it.

As for the current trend of suddenly putting the two replacements on the chopping block, what the fuck kind of mafia are you fools playing at? They flip town and then what? We're back right where we bloody started, but a day behind: D2, no real content, all the same suspects as before. No new content based on flip, because they replaced lurkers. They haven't said enough for their flip to provide content. They are NOT good choices for today. Neither one.

[Tasky]

Due to the double replacement, I'm extending the deadline by three days.
New deadline is 03.05.2011, 19:00 CET.

[imaginality]

Confirmed. Have yet to give the thread a detailed once over, but I did skim through making sure to read RangeroftheNorth's posts as well as any particular ones that stood out. I'll say this much, he sure did a good job at shooting himself in the foot. From what I can tell he seems to be in most people's top 3 suspect list (I define most as more than 50%). I can only hope the town judges me by my own performance and doesn't scrutinize me for my predecessor's.

I'm not convinced that any criticism of the player one replaces is a scumtell, if it's specific to certain points, but this very general, complete acceptance of criticism does seem enough to call him out for it. And the last line of 'don't judge me by my predecessor' is scummy in itself.

In post 444 Zinger2099 seems awfully close to saying, "You got me guv, it's a fair cop," in tone if not in words.


Kcdaspot, a different angle on your opening post: if your opening nameclaim was simply a random theme-related joke as you claim, why did you say "Discuss."? What's to discuss about a joke? I can get you posting the joke to make people chuckle - I did - but the 'discuss' does look fishing-y as compared to, say, "Nameclaim: The Doctor. "

Doombunny's 483 I like. Maxous's opening post 475 was better than Chronopie's posts, at least, but that's faint praise though, and a lot of it was just restating points already made.

[RedCoyote]

I can't fault kcdaspot for the Doctor Who reference. If I had been around in the joke phase I probably would have done the same thing. His posts since then however haven't seemed overly productive and actually resemble (most of) GreyICE's posts a lot. They are short, don't explain themselves, and are sometimes even nonsensical. Not sure what he hopes to gain, could be scum.

Agree 100% with this and the rest of your post. Good start.

---

Long story short, you're avoiding the issue.
You're in fact doing just the same as what you accuse Amrun of doing: you're spending more time on "they both could be scum" than scumhunting.
So Zinger is still as scummy as Ranger. Check.

Eh, I'm not going to write him off that easily. I mean, I agree with him anyways. We're simply way too early in the game to start guessing at partnerships. I think he's being fair with his suspicions. Maybe he could be a little more clear (e.g. list), but, you know, this is much better than Ranger.

---

There was a question?

I'm assuming this is directed at me. I asked you why you did a 180 on Amrun.

---

You used an argument for an Amrun-Kcd connection to call Amrun scum. That's crap.

Why not? Amrun is the one who willingly attached herself to Kcda at the hip (as did Kcda, but to a lesser extent).

1. I have a town read on GW.
2. You're mudslinging.

1. So? What does that have to do with anything? You're still scumhunting this game, right?
2. What is that supposed to mean? It looks like Doombunny is trying to engage you on what he sees as a contradiction. Why is that mudslinging?

You completely dodged the issue, Exe.

---

Amrun and GreyICE are protesting

way

too much that Amrun and Kcdaspot cannot be mafia together.

Agreed. This is another good post by another replacement. I like all of our replacements so far. We're batting 3 for 3.

---

As for the current trend of suddenly putting the two replacements on the chopping block, what the fuck kind of mafia are you fools playing at? They flip town and then what? We're back right where we bloody started, but a day behind: D2, no real content, all the same suspects as before. No new content based on flip, because they replaced lurkers. They haven't said enough for their flip to provide content. They are NOT good choices for today. Neither one.

...and GW still shows why he's at the bottom of my list.

---

1. Kcdaspot
   
2. Amrun
   
3. GreyICE
   
4. Tragedy
   
5. Zinger2099
   
6. Maxous
   
7. Exe
   
8. smargaret
   
9. Doombunny9
   
10. MrTrow
    
11. imaginality
    
12. GhostWriter

[Exe]

There seems to be bit of a case on Doombunney9 which I disagree with. His early post was misinterpreted - where he said the town should talk about things other than the game mechanics. People took this as 'the town should'nt talk about game mechanics at all' which is not what he meant (I think). The other accusation is buddying but I don't see it to be honest.

This completely skips

my

case on DB. This guy isn't reading any more closely than Chronopie. Congratulations, you've officially maintained my scum-read from Chrono, and also managed to get some connection points to DB in the process.

1. Yeah, because people who are pro-town NEVER do anything scummy and even if they did, it should be completely ignored because there's absolutely no way they can be scum! Good reasoning there.
2. Erm, how exactly? Because I'm saying you're only picking out the things you want to see? And this isn't legit because...?

This post was terribad. I'm going to have to rethink my stance on you.

1. Except that GW's post doesn't read like your posts, because his actually appear pro-town. Try again.
2. LOL
2.2 I have

NEVER

in my

entire

mafia career seen a town player, when accused of doing something scummy, say "But X did it too! Why is no one suspecting him!" It is honestly one of the strongest scumtells from my opinion, and not only did you commit it, but you also made the CRAPPIEST attempt at deflecting.

Also, you're flailing now. I think I've got some scum under my thumb

You used an argument for an Amrun-Kcd connection to call Amrun scum. That's crap.

Why not? Amrun is the one who willingly attached herself to Kcda at the hip (as did Kcda, but to a lesser extent).

Are you even reading my case? Connection tells do not imply alignment. Connections imply connections, which can later be used if we get alignments. Zinger however, made a case for "Amrun and Kcd seem connected" and then concluded that it made Amrun scummier. This. Makes. No. Sense.

1. So? What does that have to do with anything? You're still scumhunting this game, right?
2. What is that supposed to mean? It looks like Doombunny is trying to engage you on what he sees as a contradiction. Why is that mudslinging?

You completely dodged the issue, Exe.

Ok so first of all, why the FUCK are you defending DB for him? That is so beyond anti-town, it's not even funny. Even if somehow you were right (which, you're clearly not) you should be letting Doombunny handle accusations aimed at him.
Second of all, your response to number 1. is just posturing. Try harder please.
And see my above argument for what mudslinging is. Doombunny is doing it. Stop trying to save him.

Updated top list:

Maxous
Zinger
Doombunny

Amrun is still somewhere near the top. I can't get a solid town-read on her.
RC is inching his way up to the top with his insistence on defending pretty much everyone.

[RedCoyote]

Huh? "Defending everyone"? This has to do with you, remember? I'm asking about your GW read. I'm asking about your accusation of "mudslinging" (which you still didn't define for me).

I think you made a good point in regards to Doombunny whining about how you're not attacking GW, but your followup is crap; I'm going to call it crap. You could've smacked Doombunny down with what you just said (why he's bugging you about GW instead of addressing his own problems), but instead you followed up by saying that GW was a town read for you (as though you were incapable of reading GW as scum) and accuse Doombunny of "mudslinging".

[Exe]

2.2 I have NEVER in my entire mafia career seen a town player, when accused of doing something scummy, say "But X did it too! Why is no one suspecting him!" It is honestly one of the strongest scumtells from my opinion, and not only did you commit it, but you also made the CRAPPIEST attempt at deflecting.

THIS IS MUDSLINGING.

Herp. Derp.

[Exe]

Also, in regards to defending: you defended Doombunny AND Zinger, and then applauded GW for saying we shouldn't lynch the two replacements...that's effectively 3 whole scummy people who you completely deflected the suspicion off of.

[Kcdaspot]

typically when there is a flavor name issued to townies you name claim to narrow down who may or may not be scum because the game my center around flavor more and scum sometime do not have fake claims ready.

I poked fun at that at the beginning with my "doctor" claim.

I REALLY should have noticed amrun doing this earlier but was so full of stupid and burnout from school:

I think you skimmed that post to make me your prime lynch candidate. all you saw was Claim and Doctor and missed my joke entirely.

Sure we have ROLEnames but why say NAMEclaim? that's goes to say that you are not full claiming. you made a bad assumption.

now i'm not sure where you stand but i know that place has little or no ground AT all. you claim you have other suspects... but this tunnel on me is so transparent MIST could've spotted it.

this is my reason for the 180.

My head was burnt out for a while there.

expect something good next post.

[Amrun]

Um, kcd, that was your reason for calling me town. You've just arbitrarily decided to call the same thing scummy.

[GreyICE]

I've had the Amished tell applied to me when I was town and didn't know not to do it, but it's less reliable for females due to psychology. Despite having been burned, I still think it's a pretty reliable tell. It doesn't have anything to do with meta. It's a psychology thing.

in this case it's near 100% though.

He didn't read the thread yet BUT HE READ HIS PREDECESSOR. Who the hell does that as town? As scum? Oh yah. My first scum replace I did EXACTLY what he did in that post.

[Tragedy]

If I were to read Maxous' post about Kcdaspot, GreyICE & Amrun, if I were thinking about their interaction...
It feels like one of the three is trying to breadcrum some scumminess. I can't seem to point it out, but Kcdaspot just calling his foe town while she tries to make him look bad (indirectly) is more stranger than I think of.

[Zinger2099]

So greyICE and Exe can't read. I told you both I am not fully caught up yet.

When I replaced in I quickly skimmed the entire 18 or so pages of the thread. I read every post by RotN and every post by Tasky in detail, only glancing at the others. As a replacement, answering questions about the person you are replacing is usually a big deal in the meta I am familiar with (is it not here?), so it is important to get a good sense of where your predecessor stood in his opinions regardless of your alignment. After that, I started reading the thread in more detail, but it is slow in coming because I have a terrible head-cold (referenced earlier). I don't which is worse, the headache from the cold or the dizzying side-effects of the meds I am taking for it. In any event, reading the thread is taking me approx 3 times as long as usual (not that any of you would be familiar with my usual speed at reading but that's neither here nor there). In my last update I told you I had only gotten as far as Page 10 (Exe's case on Doomsbunny doesn't even crop up until Page 16), so why don't you both give me a chance to finish catching up before you chastise me with insults about my reading skills.

In the two days since I replaced in I have already given more attention to the thread than RotN has given it since it started, so don't tell me that I don't read any better than he has. I have made stances on certain players, commented on my feelings about certain arguments, and am trying my best to contribute and scumhunt despite being 10 pages behind the rest of you and delirious with a head cold. I'd like to see you do better.

I am currently at Page 16. I am taking a break now because my headache is making the room spin. I expect to be fully caught up by later tonight or tomorrow at the latest. When I have done that I will have a much better sense of my reads on certain players because my information will not be out of date.

Most suspicious of: (in no particular order)
Amrun
Chrono
kcd
greyICE

More to come.

Footnote: GreyICE STILL hasn't answered my question. 3rd time pointing this out and still no comment? Can you read? Apparently not.

[GreyICE]

What? Your question as to when I called your predecessor as scum?

Yes, I'm going to throw it people's face tomorrow when you flip red. Now lets make a case on RotN's obvscum replacement.

[GreyICE]

Okay, Zinger is in a bit of a bind. He replaces into a scum slot that's under a ton of suspicion, and manages to commit one of the more reliable scumtells in the book on post 1. How to salvage that?

I'm on page 10 of my detailed re-read (is there a way to have more posts appear per page?).

So far my biggest scum-read is Chronopie (now Maxous), for basically the same reasons GreyICE said in post #226. Also, Post #226 is the most town-efficient post I have seen from GreyICE thus far.

@GreyICE, is there a reason you post in such a confusing manner when it's clear you are capable of sensible posts as well?

I can't fault kcdaspot for the Doctor Who reference. If I had been around in the joke phase I probably would have done the same thing. His posts since then however haven't seemed overly productive and actually resemble (most of) GreyICE's posts a lot. They are short, don't explain themselves, and are sometimes even nonsensical. Not sure what he hopes to gain, could be scum.

I understand Amrun's reasoning for having a scum-read on kcd despite not necessarily agreeing with it. I have gone back and forth from thinking Amrun town to thinking Amrun scum. Currently Null-read.

Doombunny's questions could have been innocent, or they could have been designed to kill relevant discussion. Leaning more towards the idea that there might be an alterior motive behind them. Slightly scummy for now.

Town-reads on GhostWriter, RedCoyote, and Exe for using logic+scumhunting.

This reread is classic for scum. He calls it 'detailed' but it's pretty clearly skimming for things to call scummy and townie. For instance, he considers that Chrono is scum for basically the reasons I said, yet suggests I'm a scumread.

His townreads are for fairly lame reasons. I've seen lots of 'logic' and 'scumhunting' out of scum. He has made no attempt to determine motivations, reasoning, or anything else. He's basically skimming for points.

I called them both scum. I simply called Amrun slightly more scum because Amrun is the one that is slipping up more in my point of view.

Actually you said you were going back and forth, but hey, don't stop a mislynch. And don't provide any reasoning!

Earlier:

Whenever someone's scumreads strongly resemble 'the easiest players in the game to get lynched' there's a fucking problem.

Recently:

Hey look guys! There's the guy who replaced in for someone we mostly thought was scum, and he acknowledged that RotN didn't play well too! If there was an '

easier

' target for scrutiny, I'm not seeing it. obvscum-obvscum-obvscum.

lol. I am amused by his blatant disregard for his own logic. GreyICE needs to take his own medicine.

Yay misrep.

Then there's that fucking horribly whiny AtE up there.


Ranger is scum. His replacement is scum. Obvious suspicion pushing, misreps, AtE, and all the reasoning of... well... fuck all basically.

He's not reading for people he thinks are scummy, he's going for 'Easy targets + OMGUS.'

Every single post after this one should contain a reason why we would lynch ANY person who is not Zinger today.

[Doombunny9]

We did not do the same thing. I left nothing to the imagination. I specifically said buddying language. No one knew what it was, no one made guesses to what it was, no one made interpretations of it. I then pointed out what I saw as the buddying language. There was nothing more to say on the matter. You denying it, of all things, is certainly not going to make me want to defend my stance.

Why defend my stance to the guy I think is scum?

As for everyone else, they either agree with it, or they disagree with it.

You did leave things to the imagination when you just pointed out the posts. There could have been many conclusions drawn from those posts since you didn't explain anything until I pressed you further. Also, I loled at the italicized part. Unless you're 100% sure I'm scum (And if you are, you might want to back off on the tunneling a bit), you have no reason to.

1. Except that GW's post doesn't read like your posts, because his actually appear pro-town. Try again.

Except that it doesn't even matter if you think GW is town or not. I know you think that not explaining how something is scummy is scummy and I know GW was doing it yet you ignored it. Somethings up here.

2.2 I have NEVER in my entire mafia career seen a town player, when accused of doing something scummy, say "But X did it too! Why is no one suspecting him!" It is honestly one of the strongest scumtells from my opinion, and not only did you commit it, but you also made the CRAPPIEST attempt at deflecting.

Except that I don't even care that no one suspects GW. In fact, other than his recent posts, he's been playing very town-like and I get overall town vibes from him. What I do care about is how you're just ignoring everything GW does because he's acting town. This is either the worst attempt at buddying or the worst mason team ever.

Also, you have yet to say how I've been mudslinging.

THIS IS MUDSLINGING.

Herp. Derp.

Uh, no its not. Straight from the dictionary(.com):

mud·sling·ing
[muhd-sling-ing]
–noun
an attempt to discredit one's competitor, opponent, etc., by malicious or scandalous attacks.

(Or in mafia terms, attacking somebody just to make them look bad)

Since I have a reason other than making you look bad (Scumhunting), I'm still curious as to how I'm mudslinging.

Every single post after this one should contain a reason why we would lynch ANY person who is not Zinger today.

My reasoning for why other people are scummy are in my other posts. I'm fine with a Zinger lynch though.