Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[Amrun]

^If Zinger flips town, I will suspect MrTrow for this post.

[Exe]

Nope. He should've known better than to claim. Zinger would've been going even if Kcda never made a closing statement.

No one disputed my case against Kcda, and I still don't think anyone has. Him claiming has absolutely nothing to do with the voters of Kcda. Even Kcda didn't go so far as to blame us for him getting second place, so you're big time in buddyville here, Exe.

Don't even try to spin this that way. The point is there are multiple suspects who are degrees scummier than Kcd. The fact that Kcd is in the top two baffles me, and as a result we've lost a power role.
People on this site really don't have any clue how to read a fucking VI, it's what killed Vezok (our cop) in execution mafia and it's what's now fucked our "Elite Bodyguard" (assuming he's telling the truth, which, since I believe he's town, I think he is).


@Trow: I am

not

impressed by that explanation. You're top two reads were dictated by something so small, I can't imagine that making the top 2. Suffice to say, igmeoy

[Tasky]

Mod:

what would happen if the second place in votes had been tied between two players?

If there is a tie for second place, the first candidate chooses from them.

Mod

, does the deadline start after Zinger posts or did it start after you revealed the votes?

After I revealed the votes. This deadline is not so strict as the others, though. It's more thought as a guideline. Both lynchees should at least have made their closing statement by then.

[Tasky]

Zinger just PMed me telling me he is on LA this weak. So I'll extend the Closing Statements phase to saturday/sunday.

[Tragedy]

My list wasn`t random (it was a little rushed though).
Both amrun`s as grey`s stance on 1v1 tradeoffs seemed off to me, to the point they exeeded my initial case on doombunny(reactions to it helped, on all 3)
I believe(d) Kcda`s and Zingers claim
On top of the flavor-claim, the reasons for the lynch-hammer, the selfvote and the posts before seem to be consistent(wrong but consistent).
If the whole 'town should lynch me for info'thing was a trick not to get lynched(for 1 more day, as there`s no way he would have lasted longer) i doubt he would have selfvoted.

The whole (mis)lynch a VT or (mis)lynch a PR argument: agreed(was thinking the same thing)

As for Kcda`s roleclaim: 1 thing got my attention:
apart from the 'what`s so elite about a 1-shot' bodyguard, all attributes match his initial claim/joke: The Doctor (a regenerative(+/- bulletproof) JOAT with an unlimited timemachine).

What the hell? An unlimited time machine?
Where did the idea of unlimited time machines come from?

[GhostWriter]

Tragedy, are you even reading, or are you simply going with this new idea someone put out of Trow being scummy, so now you're attempting to make Trow loot worse?

[Doombunny9]

What the hell? An unlimited time machine?
Where did the idea of unlimited time machines come from?

What is this I don't even. You do realize it was Kcda, correct?

This shouldn't even need to be said but anyone who doesn't vote Zinger today will be under serious scrutiny tomorrow. Voting a confirmable PR over a VT is always bad.

[Tragedy]

He seemed to claim his role AFTER the nomination phase.
Unless I'm wrong again.

[Doombunny9]

You are correct but I don't see what that has to do with anything. You only responded to the unlimited time machines after Trow mentioned them and asked him where the idea came from. If you had been reading the thread you'd have known it was kcda.

[Tragedy]

I seem to not be reading well again. (>x.x<)

So yeah, watching Zinger calling as Casual Bystander then not doing much isn't townie at all, even after voting for himself.

[Tasky]

I was asked by Kcdaspot to bump this thread.

[GreyICE]

Okay, this just pisses me off.

[Amrun]

Zinger is scum and we have his claim. He has self-voted and didn't even make his final post here before going on la.

VOTE: Zinger

[imaginality]

You have to PM the mod an ordered list again, Amrun.

[Amrun]

Oh, my b.

[Zinger2099]

@Amrun

, for the record, I was on LA ever since I voted: Lynch, long before I was even able to make said 'last words'. I have a life outside this game, and since I suspect you do as well I trust you can respect other people's needs to put their lives first. I'd like to know what going LA has to do with being scum, or perhaps you are just mudslinging here?

Alright all, since you have pretty much made it clear I am going to hang today, I have decided that instead of doing whatever I can to dissuade you from making that decision, I will focus my efforts to try and help you catch scum from beyond the grave. I promised a detailed read and you shall have it. Here is my #1 scum suspect, and the case against her:

Amrun

(AKA super scum supreme)
-His first serious FoS/vote was on Kcdspot for rolefishing (post #16)
-Claims masons with GreyICE (post #28)
-Is at first in favour of voting for a lynch early, later claims he misunderstood the duration of the nomination phase (post #79)
-Claims he understood kcd's Doctor Who joke only to later say he didn't get the joke at first (posts #83 and #115 respectively)
-Seems on the fence about kcd (Post #123 and others), maintains that what kcd did was scummy but isn't sold on him being scum
-Goes back and forth with Exe and others about his focus on kcd's joke, appears to backtrack a little under pressure
-Argues that kcd is distancing, not buddying (post #159)
-Points out that she and kcd cannot be on the same scum team together (post #163)
-Says it is obvious she and kcd cannot be scum together (post #238) and even suggests choosing one of them as scum but not both
-Backtracks to say that she and kcd only can't be scum because she hasn't seen a case to prove it (post #242)
-Says no one is more scummy than kcd (post #248)
-Thinks kcd is scum not for the joke but for the several things he's done since (post #253), but hasn't provided any examples anywhere
-Says Doomsbunny is changing his stance (post #279)
-Hints that she might be immune to the lynch today (post #282)
-Asks RedCoyote to stop being so condescending (post #282), later is very condescending towards Zinger (me)
-Isn't sure how to explain her statement in such a way that doesn't make her and kcd look like scumbuddies (post #284)
-Asks why she and kcd are both on GW's scumlist (post #308), and we all know that why me = fry me
-Like's imaginality's replace-in post (post #348), could be buddying to a towny
-Goes back to calling kcd scum (post #384)
-Claims that she has other suspects than kcd (post #390), and has named names but has not explained her 'other' suspicions
-Jumps on GreyICE's Amished vs. Zinger bandwagon,

"lynch zinger with fire!"

(post #448), condescending as mentioned above
-Insists that zinger (me) committed Amished's scumtell in the worst way (post #472), I did not*
-Admits to having had Amished's tell applied to her when she was town and didn't know not to do it (post #478)
-Finally states her full case vs. kcd (for the first time as far as I can tell), and it boils down to only three small points, two of which are a direct reaction to her (post #556), looks more and more like a pre-planned scum vs. scum.
-Again says that I committed the worst case of Amished's scumtell that she has ever seen (post #569), I did not*
-Says my self-vote is the most damning piece of evidence yet (post #599)
-Says that I am scum, and somehow links it to my having gone LA before making this last post (post #637)

*Amished's Scumtell involves expressing that you would feel that the person you replaced was scum if not for the fact that you knew he or she was town. What I did was say that RotN didn't do himself or me any favours by doing the things that made you all suspicious of him (post #442), which is not at all the same as saying that I felt he was acting scummy myself. Perhaps what I said could be considered borderline Amished's Scumtell, but hardly "the worst possible case of it".

Amrun Conclusion:

I believe Amrun is scum because she has gone to great lengths to detail her animosity towards Kcdspot which in the end boils down to three simple points, two of which are things Kcd did in direct response to Amrun's own behaviour. This appears too well contrived to me, and the whole Amrun vs. Kcd argument really does look like a manufactured scum on scum dispute. Also, Amrun has repeatedly appeared to be on the fence about points that she was at other times sure of whenever she was under pressure regarding those points. She balked at RedCoyote's antagonism towards her, choosing to label those comments as condescending and making it a personal issue rather than a game issue. Later she acted in a similarly condescending manner towards me. This shows me that she is not against being condescending, just people being condescending towards her. I define that as a scum-tell because if she were town she would shrug off the comments while scum secretly feel like they deserve it because they are the bad guys, and usually that's why they will take things personally. Amrun has repeatedly stated that she has suspicions on multiple people but has rarely given cause for her suspicions. Even her biggest case was weak in the end. Finally, the person she ultimately became most suspicious of (me) was an easy bandwagon that she jumped on in response to a case GreyICE had made. From there on she practically ceased scum-hunting altogether, instead filling her posts with condescending comments like

"Lynch Zinger with fire!"

and asking why we are bothering to wait when we know Zinger (me) will be today's lynch. She knows how to play this game and has played it well, but ultimately her attempts to appear town are just that: they appear town, until you look closer and see the ruse behind them.

TL;DR

, Amrun is scum because she has contrived a fake argument between her and scumbuddy Kcdspot, because she has a tendency to go after easy targets, she doesn't actively scumhunt or build strong cases, she contradicts herself, she's condescending, she balks under pressure, and she has on more than one occasion shown a desire to rush the lynch. There can be no doubt about it, Amrun is scum.

Secondary Suspects:

(in order of suspicion)
Kcdspot - The biggest contender for scumville, I am confident that the Amrun vs. Kcd arguments were scum on scum
GreyICE - Claimed masons early with Amrun, and has since been more or less on Amrun's side during a number of the biggest debates

Town Reads:

(in order of trustworthiness)
imaginality - Actively scumhunts, and the fact that Amrun buddied up to you gives you very strong town vibes
RedCoyote - When you put pressure on Amrun, she balked and appeared to be genuinely uncomfortable under scrutiny, ++town points

I have null reads on everybody else to varying degrees. Here is my list from most scum to least scum:

1. Amrun
2. Kcdspot
3. GreyICE
4. smargaret
5. Doomsbunny
6. Mr.Trow
7. Exe
8. GhostWriter
9. Tragedy
10. Maxous
11. RedCoyote
12. Imaginality
13. Zinger (me)

I don't really have well built cases to go with most of the people on that list which is why they all received 'null reads' as opposed to scum or town reads, but there are reasons why each are where they are (even though some are just 'gut' feelings).

Well, I won't go on boring you for much longer. As a vanilla town I don't really have a problem with my own lynch, in fact I encourage it. Short of lynching scum, town has the least to lose by hitting a VT, and once my alignment is confirmed I hope that it will allow many of you to look at my posts in a new light, and perhaps even pave the way towards catching those vile scum buggers. That really is the best way to die as town, with an accusatory finger in a deathly rigor pointed straight at scum. Good luck to you town! I hope you catch them all without many more loses on our side.

P.S.

In case anybody missed it early, a 'last words' post isn't complete without a proper claim. As I said above I am a vanilla town, otherwise known as a Casual Bystander in this game. I'm basically a witness to these horrible events and I am trying to help town solve the mystery behind them. My only strengths are my freedom of speech and my vote to lynch.
(The above was obviously paraphrased because direct quoting is against the rules)

Adios everybody! It's been fun!

~Soon to be lynched Zinger

[GreyICE]

Okay.

I'm gonna ask something entirely fucking crazy. Something that should never ever ever be done.

Do we lynch kcdaspot?

His role makes zero fucking sense. None. I know the names are different, but Elite Bodyguard has a VERY defined set of powers. You bodyguard someone and if a kill is submitted against them, the killer and bodyguard both die.

He's really a JOAT. Okay, JOATs don't need to be named JOAT, but I'd think they'd get at least a LITTLE bit better name. NOPE. Similarly, why 2 roleblocks? 1 bodyguard? 1 vig? It makes zero sense.

Now that I have claimed,

the mafia must kill at least 5 members of the town to have a chance to take me out of play for good.

Are you. Fucking. Shitting. Me.

A PR that can't be taken out before DAY SIX with time traveling Roleblocks, vigs, and a bodyguard?

I was initially looking at this as a JoaT before I realized how sick it was. Say we lynch scum on day 3. He can travel back to day 2 and roleblock them. If they submitted the kill, OOPS! Living CONFIRMED town player.

Anyone have a good feeling about this claim?

[Amrun]

That case is bad. Sooooo bad. If, at some point, I need to go through and detail why many of those are outright wrong or misreps, I will. There are a few valid points, but many of those aren't even close.

Btw if you hadn't realized... The mason "claim" was an obvjoke.

I did want to note that I wasn't aware Zinger was on LA previously. I thought he pmed Tasky during the closing statement phase because that is when Tasky posted that he got the PM.

Also, Zinger's understanding of the Amished scumtell is faulty.

P-edit: No, kcdaspot's claim sounds exactly like the sort of fakeclaim scum-kcda makes. However, Zinger is scummier anyway, but kcda can try and prove his claim tonight with a vig shot.

[Doombunny9]

Zingers case on Amrun seems pretty weak and as Amrun said, a lot of the points are crap or null.

@Grey- Yeah, I had a few problems with it too but luckily for us, it can easily be confirmed through his vig kill. He can easily be lynched in the future if he turns out to be lying.

[MrTrow]

Completely missed the potential of the claimed role.
I also see very little reason behind the 'required death of 5 townies to be taken out permanently'-part of it.
only thing i can think of is an up to 4-man scumteam and night-kill-immunity.

I was/am thinking about advising against demanding a confirmation-kill tonight as it will get him killed if true.
A powerfull feature of the infinite-timemachine is the whole 1-in-10 chance on a succesfull kill when he uses it to hide, which goes out of the door the second he can`t hide in time because the target time for his 'prove-yourself-kill' is predetermined.

More on this after i get some sleep. (3am)

simpler things:

^If Zinger flips town, I will suspect MrTrow for this post.

care to explain?

@Tragedy(to completely eliminate questions about the umlimited time-machine):
Kcda`s opening claim was: The Doctor (AKA Doctor Who):
- a timelord (human-like lifeform with the ability to regenerate into a new body 'to cheat death')
- carrier (owner?) of the sonic-screwdriver: the ultimate joat tool
- user (owner?) of the tardis: an infinite timemachine (in fact breaking the spring below the 'return button'(which sends it to whereever it just came from) would send it 'crashing' against the very beginning of time itsself)

The thing i was pointing out was, the similarities between his joke-claim and the closing-statements one.

[Tragedy]

Whoa. You mean it could've possibly been a Fake Role PM, then?
Or he was just hinting his role all along.
Hmm.

[RedCoyote]

No, Grey (although it's refreshing that you're showing a little openness to the game again).

Zinger, a shame you started this game on the wrong foot, because I think we could've worked well together.

Let's get this show on the road, please.

[Amrun]

RC, do you think Zinger is scum or not?

Trow: Because your post read to me as having foreknowledge of Zinger's alignment as town and as an attempt to town-buddy knowing that Zinger was soon to flip town. I still think Zinger will flip scum, but IF he does not, that post will be re-examined by me and will make you far more suspect in my eyes.

[RedCoyote]

No, ma'am, I do not. I've made that pretty clear throughout the day. Neither Ranger nor Zinger had ever even broke the third spot on my list.

That being said, I want him gone over Kcda at this point.

[Amrun]

That was what I meant. I just wanted to know who you wanted dead. I didn't phrase that the best way I could have.

Is this simply because lynching a possible VT is better than lynching a possible PR?