Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[Amrun]

What's really bugging me is that smarg finds Trow scummy for the "discussed points."

I was the only one discussing Trow's potential scumminess.

I'm supposedly smargaret's top scumread.

This makes smargaret scummier regardless of Trow, but I do see a connection there.

[Tragedy]

At least Amrun got the right track on Smargaret.

Right now it's Amrun/DB/Ranger/Kcd for me, the last three may shift some.

1. Amrun
2. DB/Mist
3.
4. Ranger
5. KCD
6. Chrono
7. Grey

Funny how Mist suddenly gets into the list.

I find it amusing (read: scummy) that Mist pops in, posts fluff, votes to lynch, and doesn't provide a list or ask any sort of question. Also, the two questions she's asked have not been followed up on at all - there's definitely something going on as far as Mist not contributing. The reason she and DB are tied for second is because I have more to go on from DB (so I'm more confident in my read), and a DB flip would be more informative in terms of connections than a Mist flip, but Mist is slightly more likely to be scum (very slightly, IMO, but Mist has done more scummy things - I just can't be as certain that they're legitimately scum-motivated and not Mist being Mist) and I haven't figured out which way the balance should tip.

I find it real amusing that Smarg provides a list AFTER Mist comes in.
I see no 'Motives'... Ahem, 'Why' they should be lynched...
Although Smarg marks Amrun as top scum read, where the hell is the good reason?

Amrun - scum 101 is to find a townie being wagoned hard and say "Gee, I don't think X is scum, I think they're town." Then you get bonus points when X is inevitably lynched and flips town - you weren't on the wagon, in fact you were against it. You certainly fit the "wagoned hard" part of the definition, and if you flip town, then the whole scenario fits.

This only reason came AFTER she keeps saying Amrun is the top scum tell. Really. At least we get the reason.. WAY after you keep saying she's scum...

Then, smarg comes in and says Zinger's so scummy without any reason as well. Along with Chronopie.
How the hell imaginality came into the scums list?
How the hell Maxous fails to make up for Chronopie, although he's actually doing a bit better than him?

Why did you originally call back the "AMRUN/KCD" scum tell earlier?

I just noticed smarg never really mentioned myself. -Gulp-

Trying to read.

[Kcdaspot]

hey trag!

list?

[Tragedy]

I'm starting with scum reads first. Durhur, I don't like putting everything into one post right away.

[Kcdaspot]

meh fine.

i'd like it tonite thoo...

if you'd be so kind

[Tragedy]

...And it's 11:52 and I wake up at 7.
It'll take time, Kcdaspot.

But MrTrow/Smarg are obviously suspicious.

[Kcdaspot]

fine...

where's imagine?

[RedCoyote]

IN CASE IT ISN'T CLEAR THAT WAS A JOKE.

let's not have another "Doctor Who" fiasco.

Lol. Good call, friend.

---

working as zinger is apart of the scum team.

Why?

---

I'm sorry, the lack of reveal is seriously sapping my will to play this game. Do people want me to replace out?

Nope. Stop being a princess and deal with it.

---

i believe Doombunny9's non-specific PR claim, because he as good as claimed town PR yesterday, when he said he assumed everyone had a time machine.

Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, that's a good catch. It doesn't necessarily mean he's town aligned though.

---

-=-Jumping around Amrun-=-

Hey, you don't have to sell me there. Sign me up. I'm still fully prepared to see Amrun eat rope.

---

I understand you think that scum probably have time machines but you're missing the point to my question.

I think we're asking Kcda similar things. Do you follow me, Doombunny?

---

I wish I knew what you were trying to say.

She's trying to say you're scum.

---

Is the suspicion on Red Coyote based on Zinger being town or mafia? And in either instance..why exactly? Is it just for thinking Zinger was town?

I'd kind of like to know this as well!

---

Something's still strange of Kcdaspot.
If the -ELITE BODYGUARD- was claimed here, why wasn't he killed?
He mentioned he killed someone, unless by chance, he used the time machine to go back in time or ahead (Is this even possible?) and killed somebody.
I don't know how time machines work the way Tasky uses it.

I can't really read Kcdaspot's posts anymore, so I'll put him back to null...

His claim really just seems so over the top to be fake, in my opinion. It seems like it would really be hard for scum to keep track of all that stuff. Let's just keep the fire to his feet for now, but I appreciate you still shopping the idea that the claim is a tough one to swallow (because it is).

---

it wasn`t intended as a PR-claim.

Yeah, but, I mean, it is. You agree with that, right?

---

Then the next/latest post from MrTrow, he still says smarg is town.
Seriously, there's no chats with Smargaret and it simply feels awkward since MrTrow is ironically concerned with Smargaret, although they don't know the other person's alignment... Or by chance, they do.
Yes, sounds like Trow's defending Smarg here.

Good point, but what is he defending her from? It just doesn't seem like she's facing much heat. I don't know how you separate this from just having a normal town read on her based on reading her posts.

---

1. Amrun
   
2. GreyICE
   
3. Exe
   
4. Maxous
   
5. MrTrow
   
6. smargaret
   
7. Tragedy
   
8. Doombunny9
   
9. imaginality
   
10. GhostWriter
    
11. Kcdaspot
    
12. Zinger

I'm kind of unsure where to put Zinger on my list now. I mean, I'm just going to take a chance and put him on the bottom because I don't really see how he could be scum.

[Amrun]

Want to explain your case on me, RC?

And I already explained how Zinger probably is scum.

[RedCoyote]

I'm tempted to just throw a bunch of links at you for that. You honestly don't remember us going back and forth on D1?

[Amrun]

Yes, yes. I meant taking into account the lynch and d2 and all that.

Why do you think Zinger is town?

[RedCoyote]

I can't think of a plausible explanation as to why he'd be scum.

[Amrun]

Well, what do you think of my explanation of such?

[RedCoyote]

Oh, I do think it's plausible that there is a Janitor. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the role.

You mean, like, the role has to be lynched and then he uses his power? The way I was seeing it is that we lynch a townie, they flip nothing, and, until Zinger (or whoever is Janitor) is lynched, they stay as nothing.

[Amrun]

Well, if there is a janitor, it's probably an x-shot janitor. How I saw such a role used previously is that there was an x-shot mortician to counter it, but even if the janitor died, the flips weren't public.

I think that Zinger voted for himself because he was scum and did not know that vote count would be public. (I didn't know, for example.)

He never provided an explanation for why he did that, either, and I see NO town motivation that could possibly explain it, either -- even you admitted that.

I think he knew his team had a janitor and that he'd be janitored and planned to WIFOM the town as much as possible before dying, making them think he was town and play the game on that assumption.

Of course, maybe he WAS town; we have no way of knowing. I had a scumread on him, though, so I am inclined to think he is scum.

Nothing really excuses that selfvote, imho.

[Tasky]

@mod, i assume by 'first nominee, selects second nominee in case of ties', you select directly from first nominees list(due to time-medling-protection) and there is a way to handle 3+ way ties for first place

Yes, I choose directly from first nominees list. Any other tie that can't be resolved this way (e.g. 3 way tie for first place) will be decided randomly.

[MrTrow]

@Kcda, yes the idea remains the same, abilities to travel to and kill N0 would still make you d1-lynchable. And whether it requires 4 or 5 kills isn`t relevant (the detail that you, called a number for unclear reasons, when asked about it, the reason and the number don`t match)
But more importantly the difference between 4.5 or 1 kill: I find it hard to believe you missed that option, considering your votes indicate you had him as town.
Did you still consider Zinger town when you made your claim?

So you're clearing smarg on basis of asking the mod about flips?

Ok situation: this is an open-flip-game with a janitor-powered mafia-faction, however nowhere in the rules does the mod state the flips are 'normally open'
This can be done for 2 reasons:
1. It was simply forgotten or ,as no rule about it has been stated, the default situation is to be assumed: Which is a lucky break for scum.
2. It was left out on purpose, probably because 'town not knowing flips are normally-open' makes the janitor more powerfull (as in situation 1 but intentional)

The janitor-containing-faction already knows it`s normally-open-flips and by asking the question:
1. They throw out their lucky break.
2. Inform town of the possibility of (semi)closed-flips that no-one was even thinking about.

- How does Smargaret-scum result in GreyICE-town?

> This part shows a minor connection towards MrTrow & Smargaret, since Amrun thought that Smarg attacking GreyICE would possibly not show a scumbuddy connection with each other.

Was part of a 'you`re fighting pretty hard against TvS lets lynch both, for someone claiming to be pro 1-1 tradeoffs' @amrun
The no scumbuddy explenation was given as a response to this question

Mist:hard(near impossible) to read + Imaginality: the biggest thing to go on is his opening-list, i might get into that list later, but the smargaret-read caught my eye:
- The 'in reading the thread- not looking so good': true (at least true enough to leave as a mislynch), going into iso to clear a (non-obvious potential) mislynch, is not something i would consider pro-scum.

> When he's interesting of Smargaret of "Reading the Thread but Portraying Badly" is 'True', which would

leave to a mislynch

towards Smarg. However, why so not-so-obvious potential mislynch? Why did you say this about Smarg instead of myself, whose reading badly here as well?

This wasn`t my read on smargaret, it was one on imaginality:
imaginality-scum could have easily mislynched(he would know it was a mislynch) smargaret, given the 'reading badly' thing:
He however goes into an iso-read and comes to the conclusion smargaret is somewhat cleared.
He deliberately shot down the option for imag-scum to lynch smarg-town: therefore imag=town or smarg=scum

it wasn`t intended as a PR-claim.

Yeah, but, I mean, it is. You agree with that, right?

A probable clumsy claim that could have easily be 'swept under the rug' by emphasising the 'i assume everyone does' instead of pointing out his 'non vanilla setup assumption' that has appearantly managed to sneek by at least you.
But yes a claim non the less.

[imaginality]

Sorry - I will either be fully caught up and posting regularly again within 24 hours, or I will replace out if I can't pull my weight. I haven't lost interest in this game, it's just been an emotionally gruelling weekend.

[Maxous]

RE: The connection between Mr.Trow and smargaret.

I would be lying if I said it never crossed my mind with them not mentioning each-other much and smargaret calling Mr.Trow's posts 'goodposting' but to be calling them scumbuddies without a flip is generally not a good idea. If smargaret does flip mafia - which I hope to find out sooner rather than later - then we can look into connections.
Does anybody have a reason why Mr.Trow is mafia apart from this possible connection?

Also for the record I will be assuming Worst Case Scenario that Zinger was town.(for MYLO/LYLO purposes later etc.) Hmm although I say this, I won't base my suspicions on the assumption Zinger was town..if that makes any sense.
To be honest he seemed to have a 'poor me' attitude.. he may of indeed self-voted as town.

Also, why would Zinger self-vote just to ensure to use a lynch janitor ability on himself? Can't the mafia lynch janitor target any lynch?
I don't like that reasoning from Amrun and I'm a bit concerned about why she is insisting so much that Zinger was mafia. I understand that she is acting under that assumption but why question Red Coyote about not beleiving it?

Not to mention there may not be a mafia lynch janitor at all.

[Amrun]

RC is free to disagree.

I just wanted to hear his response.

I'm not sure RC is town this game but I can't find anything to peg him as scum and this concerns me.

[GhostWriter]

It bothers you not to be able to see RC as scum?

[Amrun]

No, I do see him as scum, but I can't pinpoint a reason why.

[Tragedy]

Before I get to the 3rd scummy person on top of my list...
GreyICE, why did you put MrTrow on top of the list earlier than simply ignored him?
There was no direction of posts towards him either.

[Maxous]

I'm not sure RC is town this game but I can't find anything to peg him as scum and this concerns me.

Why does this concern you?
If there is nothing to peg him as scum then he probably is'nt.

Okay, why do you think he is scum in this game then?
And why was'nt he in your top 4 list that you provided earlier?

[Amrun]

Iirc he was number 5 on that list.

RC is giving me gut scum, which means my sunconscious is picking up on SOMETHING, I just don't know what. I don't always get this from RC, so it's not just playstyle.

It troubles me because if he really is scum and I can't pinpoint why, it will be hard to build a case and thus hard to take care of him.

I had this problem in a recent game. I KNEW someone was scum but had no formal case and it took me until endgame to lynch him as the last scum, and that was a difficult task.

My feeling isn't as strong with RC here as it was with that player, but it still concerns me.