Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[Tragedy]

So wait, let me guess on what's Imaginality's few thoughts about GW.

ISO

#1 : GW made good points about KCDA-AMRUN argument 'n Smarg's question lacking & Dislikes DB Case
#2 : GW's the Towniest of the Town
#7 : Argues that "Not knowing the rules", in GW's case (who 'knew' there would be special mechanics) would be anti-town.
#14 : GW is in the 10th Position of Scumminess.
#21 : Dislikes GW's scum Gut read on him, which was mentioned to possibly make him fly up the list. Apparently, he thinks it was 'overcautious' of GW to do so, and thinks it was fence-sitting on him b4 ISO read = Backs up his 'gut' or 'contradicts' it. GW is #3 in the List.
#22 : Cautiously Specifically called GW based on his scum gut mentioned previously. Honestly doesn't think GW is scum.

Appeal to the Crowd detected.

#26 : "My Sense thinks that that post is Scummy."
#28 : GW is 2nd scummiest person.

Also, while reading his posts towards Zinger, it was sort of the same thing with Amrun.
"Zinger is my Top Two" without any arguments towards him. No extended read was provided from it.
Then he agrees with Smarg's #617 that Zinger > Kcdaspot as the kill.
This is more ridiculous now, imaginality. Why, oh Why?

Also, I found something real interesting;

I was wondering that, too.

Though since VTs are apparently 'Casual Bystanders'

it's possible for other roles to be oddly named too.

Scum detected.

[Tragedy]

List of the Scum

1. MrTrow
2. Imaginality
3. Smargaret

[Kcdaspot]

yeah okay trag is not scum..

[Tragedy]

yeah okay trag is not scum..

Is this sarcasm.. -.-?

[Kcdaspot]

What threw me off about trag was her palling around with c-worl...

top 3? how bout another list?
1. GreyICE
2. smarg
3. imaginality
4. RC
5. C-worl
6. GW
7. mrtrow
8. zinger
9. tragedy
10. EXE
11. amrun
12. Max

@exe... sooooo grey is town cuz meta and gut?

also the imagine case is sexy.

[Kcdaspot]

yeah okay trag is not scum..

Is this sarcasm.. -.-?

nope

[Exe]

Kcd: No, Grey is town because he's obviously town. Stop failing.

[Exe]

Also, that was some mad good posting Trag.

[Kcdaspot]

Kcd: No, Grey is town because he's obviously town. Stop failing.

okay bad way to say that...

take 2.

how?

i need to see good posts.

[imaginality]

There is no contradiction: if there are 2 people on the chopping block, and I send in 3 lists, changing the 2 people each time, then the 3rd one is the exact same as the original list. So I gave him back the original list. But I've gotta ask: where would this line of questioning go?

iso52: "

Didn't get a revised list in

before it ended."

is not the same as "I sent a revised list in, then another list after that."

[imaginality]

@Tragedy, I'll comment on your other points later, but this confuses me:

Also, I found something real interesting;

[quote="imaginality POST #14]I was wondering that, too. Though since VTs are apparently 'Casual Bystanders' it's possible for other roles to be oddly named too.

Scum detected.[/quote][/quote]

Please explain what's scummy about that. I posted that comment some time after Zinger2099 claimed 'just Casual Bystander'. It was clear to anyone reading the following posts by that point that 'Casual Bystander' must be the term for VTs in this game, regardless of whether Zinger2099 was VT or scum who'd been told the VT role PM, because someone would have questioned him about it if it wasn't the correct term for VTs. So I really don't understand what point you're making here.

[RedCoyote]

Why the FUCK is C-Worl your third to last? Please make a case for C-Worl-town for me, so I can see where your head is right now, because that makes absolutely no sense to me.

I'm debating over whether or not I believe his claim. I liked Doombunny and saw few of the same issues with him that y'all did, although I will admit that I'm not particularly happy with C-Worl. He needs to move in my list to reflect this, so I will concede somewhat to you here.

ZINGER VOTED HIMSELF.

Why the fuck is that being ignored?

I don't see how this makes much of a difference. I'm certainly not going to be willing to bank on him being scum over it. I've been in multiple games where town have voted themselves. Additionally, given Kcda's claim, I wouldn't be surprised if Zinger saw more value in giving Kcda a chance to help confirm himself further down the line (as well as force the scum to WIFOM their night actions against him).

---

My list is essentially the same as it was yesterday, with Imaginality rising high enough to get a top 2 spot. Amrun takes the other spot.

Okay. I love how you get straight to the point. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

---

Question for all: did you know our top 2 votes would be public?

I don't think I did, but I don't remember. I don't really care because I post my list often and have no objection to any of my lists being public. I have nothing to hide, nor should any other townie.

---

Self-voting is considered a viable strategy as scum.
It is not, as town.

Why are you pushing this so hard? You really don't think it's at all possible that Zinger voted himself as town? Come on. I could link to at least two games I was in, just off the top of my head, where a townie not only voted themselves, but actually hammered themselves.

If you want to lower the bar to include just pure self-votes, I'm sure I have at least two dozen different examples of that.

---

Either I will get a flip, and know we have a janitor, or I won't, and know we're most likely in a no-flip game. However, I'd like to assume we have a day janitor. I didn't know there was a such thing as a day-janitor until she said it. I was, indeed, implying this might be a no-flip game until that.

I know this is starting to come across as buddying-sounding, and I honestly don't mean for it to, but I wish more players would talk this plainly. Although I do appreciate smargaret summing it up for me pretty bluntly as well. Both of you have done a pretty good job at keeping things down to earth, I think.

---

Everything about the way Amrun has handled her PR so far, and the probable nature of it, makes me think scum PR.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

---

if Zinger didn't know the votes would be revealed but DID know he would be janitored, he may have self-voted to assure he was on the chopping block.

If you are implying that both Zinger and Kcda were scum, I'd be very weary of relying on that sort of good fortune on the part of the town. I'm not a math guru, but I think there's, like, statistically a 3.8% chance of that happening if my numbers are right.

And I said I left hints for RC, or anybody, but I knew RC would catch them bc we have played together before. Those hints started coming after pressure and do not allude to which PR I have.

Yes, and I acknowledged that I picked them up with the advice that you might as well give a full on claim. Now, you wisely avoided this advice (although it was still risky to do so) and ended up not being nominated for a lynch. I don't know if you'll be as lucky this go 'round.

Vague, un-subtle warnings against lynching you are not enough to sway me against it because you're simply not making enough of a commitment to a role. I appreciate you trying to be delicate about your claim, but the fact of the matter is that, in these specific circumstances, I still see you as scummy.

I wouldn't say that, you know, you should use either of our approaches (your not-so-subtle "trust me, you don't want to lynch me" warnings, nor my excessive pressure on a potential PR) as a template for any future games, but I would say that, in this specific situation, this is just how it's going to break for me. If you think you can avoid the nomination process again, then you're right to be hesitant about all the details of your claim, but you know where I stand.

---

Scum detected.

Explain.

---

Kcd: No, Grey is town because he's obviously town. Stop failing.

Cut out this meta crap, please. Grey isn't town simply because he did a similar thing in some other game you guys played together God knows how long ago.

---

1. GreyICE
   
2. Amrun
   
3. Exe
   
4. Tragedy
   
5. C-Worl
   
6. Maxous
   
7. MrTrow
   
8. imaginality
   
9. smargaret
   
10. Kcdaspot
    
11. GhostWriter
    
12. Zinger

Amrun

, I do have something for you though. Do you remember the line of questioning I asked of Doombunny when this day started?

C-Worl

, what role do you have?

[Amrun]

That's my point, about Zinger. He'd only do that if he thought it would be hidden, because he has something to hide, because he is scum. I think, anyway.

And no, I no longer thing kcdaspot has really any chance of being scum. He is town.

As for the stuff about the claim, I have virtually botched the entire game. I'm not going to sit her and argue that I've played it correctly, because I know I haven't. That's beside the point, though.

You've asked Doombunny one question today, that I could find. What is its relevance to me? I think you mean the line of questioning with kcdaspot.

If so, that's part of the reason I believe kcdaspot. My PM just says that I have an unlimited time machine. No clues about scum whatsoever.

[Exe]

Grey isn't town simply because he did a similar thing in some other game you guys played together God knows how long ago.

Is this what I said? I don't think so.

You really don't think it's at all possible that Zinger voted himself as town?

Nope.
Let me bold this because you seem to be repeatedly ignoring it.

Zinger was scummy BEFORE he ever self-voted.
His predecessor was scummy.
He was scummy.
And THEN he self-voted.

Zinger. Is. Scum.

Wtf is wrong with this game. Zinger at the bottom and GreyICE at the top? This is worse than Execution mafia.

[Amrun]

Not my fault this time. >.>

I would like to hear why you think GreyICE is town.

My head is telling me he isn't town. My gut is telling me he probably.

That's the problems with my reads in this game. They're slipping away from me. My head disagrees with my gut in 90% of cases. My head tells me that X people are scummy, but they FEEL town. My guy tells me that Y people are scummy, but they LOOK town.

I was really looking forward to seeing Zinger's alignment to help solidify some things, but even though I'm 90% convinced he's scum, it's not 100%. Ugh.

[Exe]

Tell me why you think GreyICE is scum. I've basically explained my reasoning.

[GhostWriter]

At work, but decided to take my break time before the end of the shift to let you all know why Amrun should be up there with Imaginality come the end of today. Remember those hints she's going on about leaving for RC? The ones they rest of us weren't supposed to catch? She assumed mafia caught them, but not any member of the town other than RC. One person, not everyone, not a few, not a couple, one. I'm gonna guess she knew he was town (because she's pretty much flat-out calling him town) due to the fact that he wasn't on her team. Scumteam, of course. Why else would she entrust something that's as important as role info to one person in the game whose alignment you couldn't possibly be sure of? No doubt the mafia have the info she placed, since she told them what she did herself. They were probably planning to point it out themselves, saying something like "Look what I found! Amrun's not scum, guys, cause I found her breadcrumbs and the gingerbread house it led to didn't have a cannibalistic witch in it!"

[C-Worl]

Hi, I totes got prodded. Will try to catchup soon.

[Tragedy]

@Imaginality: When you mentioned "VTs are apparently Casual Bystanders", you're now claiming that you're a PR, possible scum there. "Just" a Casual Bystander can still mean you're only a VT, and who the fuck would suddenly come back with a second claim that you aren't a VT, srsly. He knows he's a VT when you know the VT's role name.. And it makes it revealing that you aren't a VT at all, so it makes me think you're a scum PR, at the moment.

[GhostWriter]

Or just plain ol' scum. I'd assume they also aren't Casual Bystanders. Killing people usually isn't casually. Unless you're Deadpool.

There is no contradiction: if there are 2 people on the chopping block, and I send in 3 lists, changing the 2 people each time, then the 3rd one is the exact same as the original list. So I gave him back the original list. But I've gotta ask: where would this line of questioning go?

iso52: "

Didn't get a revised list in

before it ended."

is not the same as "I sent a revised list in, then another list after that."

Now you're seriously just nitpicking, which is getting quite sad. I didn't think I'd need to go that far in-depth when I first explained it. And then I got asked about it again, so I went more in-depth. And then I got asked about it again, so I went even MORE in-depth. What is the point you're trying to get at with all of this? Trying to make me look bad, so no one follows me, because they certainly wouldn't nominate me based off of the crap you're bringing to the table.

[Tragedy]

'Would've called GreyICE town, but his disappearance makes him null.

[Amrun]

GW, what are you smoking? They were for everyone. Of course everyone saw them. I knew RC would and asked if he'd seen them at one point. Why would I ever go about doing any of that for one person? Especially since my gut tells me that person isn't town?

Exe: He hasn't scumhunted much at all and I've always seen him aggressivlyscumhunt as town. :/

[Exe]

Think about it for a second.

He scumhunted D1. D2 he became lazy.

What makes more sense.

That suddenly, out of nowhere, he just decided to stop being a good player and be lazy-scum instead?

Or

That he's town, was frustrated by the no-flip, and has lost interest as a result?

You tell me.

[Amrun]

I don't think he scumhunted as much as usual D1.

But I think I'm lleaning town on him.

[GhostWriter]

GW, what are you smoking? They were for everyone. Of course everyone saw them. I knew RC would and asked if he'd seen them at one point. Why would I ever go about doing any of that for one person? Especially since my gut tells me that person isn't town?

RC, I have left several deliberate hints

for you in particular

, since you seem to be reading my posts carefully.

The fact that you have failed to address them at all is raising alarm bells in my mind. You've seen them. I can guarantee scum have seen them.

Bolded it.