Colour Concentration Mafia (Mini 1174) - Over

[Packbat]

RVS first: VOTE: Jedo the Jedi

With that out of the way, I'll place another vote for no color claiming - it may be useful toward the endgame, but scum will try to destroy all three of a color if they know they have two down.

On a related note, the sample role PM seems to imply three of each color - but 13 is

one more

than a multiple of 3. It's possible we have either two scum groups or a third party role.

[Packbat]

@Packbat
I think the uneven spread is the most likely to prevent a colour-claim breaking the game.

Ah, good thought.

[Packbat]

i think its an uneven spread of colour, mine doesn't seem to be in 3

We should stop talking about whether we seem to be in 4 or 3 or whatever.

Agreed - I do not believe we will gain more useful data by doing so.

[Packbat]

@Hiphop
What is the purpose of asking that question?

It's not obvious from context?

[Packbat]

And no color claiming. That gives scum info as to the color breakdown.

Fyi, it is not the above that is the reason why we are not claiming, but the fact that the more one color dies the more the other's of that color gain powers. If one were to claim a color that is already dead, then mafia would know that person has a power.

Therefore, if colors are revealed upon death, any individual who claims to be the same color as some number of corpses paints a bullseye on their head. If colors are not, individual color claims offer little or no additional information to scum.

[Packbat]

There are other effects of color revelation on death which are even more important: for example, if colors were not revealed on death, a color massclaim would immediately reveal to scum the true census without aiding town much in IDing scum (although some effectively-counterclaim things could be done, if a player gained two powers but scum claimed to be their color).

[Packbat]

In the situation that actually pertains, what a color massclaim will do is (in all likelihood) reveal which colors scum has fakeclaimed, possibly making a few of the remaining players conftown.

[Packbat]

That's reasonable.

[Packbat]

Thread's only been open four hours - I'd say if posting hasn't picked up in another twenty, it might be time to start throwing out queries to break the ice.

[Packbat]

Void needs to get wagoned ASAP.

I believe such a wagon would be informative.

UNVOTE: Jedo the Jedi
VOTE: Voidedmafia

[Packbat]

...What are you on about?

Probably some prior game - although the only game I can recall in which both Voidedmafia and I played is still in progress, so I can't be sure.

[Packbat]

Isn't that L-1?

Unvote; Vote: hiphop

That is, in fact, L-1 - StrangerCoug, Glass, xvart, Packbat, Leiskyrie, and hiphop, in that order.

As for Voidedmafia's inquiry, I said with my vote that I believe the wagon on you will be informative. Glass's reason for voting is worth responding to, for example: what benefit would there be for town in announcing publicly for all to see where a townslip has been performed? And if there is no such benefit, why did you ask - just naive curiosity?

[Packbat]

Quite frankly, the way it was worded and with the vote where it is, it looks more like, "I'm voting this guy and I'm hoping he's town and my color to get some powers." That's what I took it as. As far as I can tell, it sure sounded like you wanted them to die to get yourself more power.

For the record, I saw no such interpretation of xvart's post. It read to me as the usual sort of meaningless conversation that often accompanies votes during RVS.

[Packbat]

I'm sure that's not a site-wide record for shortest Day 1, but it beats my personal record by three days and eighty-one posts.

... Yeah, sorry, didn't realize he was at L1, I was skimming the thread and missed it. This is why most people bold it when someone gets to L1.

Isn't that L-1?

Frankfurter, read the thread next time.

[Packbat]

Apropos of nothing (I've just been OCDing over it a bit, it's not game related): Leiskyrie, is your username Greek? I recognize "kyrie", but I can't figure what "leis-" means as a prefix.

[Packbat]

Why would scum no-kill in this situation? The only thing I can imagine is that they weren't allowed to use their new ability if they did, but what ability could be that powerful?

No, I'm serious: anyone have any ideas?

[Packbat]

That's not the best thing to be dwelling on, Packbat.

...yeah, you're right. Too little data.

I seriously suspect given the speed of the wagon that VoidedMafia was bussed.

I think less "bussed" than "scumpartners didn't have time to remove their distancing votes", but I agree. There's probably folk on the wagon voting because they don't want to look divorced from the town mindset.

But I disagree about hiphop. "Generally helpful"? The first thing he did when Voidedmafia hit L-2 was vote for someone else and start jawing about "voided nonsense". The only towny thing about him is that he seemed to be copying Voidedmafia's reasoning with his xvart vote, and that's only "towny" because it's WIFOM.

VOTE: hiphop

[Packbat]

Glass's unvote puts

hiphop at L-2

, for anyone just skimming the thread.

Ghostlin: please, let us know.

[Packbat]

Ghostlin = content tease extraordinaire

Actually now that I think about it, with everyone being a vanilla, the only person that should know of an action being performed would be scum.

So, how can any townie, that is vanilla, know of an action that was targeted at himself? Gambit?

fos Ghost for now

..."for now"?

[Packbat]

Ah, that makes more sense.

[Packbat]

Before anyone lynches anyone, and I just got back from a con so I've not read the hiplop case yet--I've just received information about actions performed during a night phase targetting me. Should I share?

Basically he came in waved info in our faces when we got someone to L1 and then left. Am I the only one who thinks this was an elaborate way to derail a wagon?

It's not impossible. I still want to see what Ghostlin says, but it's certainly possible that that is Ghostlin's intent.

[Packbat]

Meransiel and Leiskyrie.

(I'd like to hear hiplop articulate his case, too. As Emerson said about quoting, "Yet in proportion to your reality of life & perception, will be your difficulty of finding yourself expressed in others' words or deeds." hiplop, why do

you

think hiphop is scum?)

[Packbat]

VOTE: Hiphop

I'm tired of waiting.

UNVOTE: hiphop

I'm not.

If my count's right, it's too late. If Ghostlin is able to post in time, let's hear it, but right or wrong about the vote count I consider hiphop's fate sealed.

Glass unvoted at #132 - hiphop was (and now is again) at

L-2.

[Packbat]

Day 1 or Night 1?

[Packbat]

Okay - I'd say that's definitely useful information. In other words, you're a N1 kill, even though you're not dead until N2. I can see how that would help scum in a game where town deaths give town powers; I'm inclined to believe it, particularly since the story should be confirmed tonight.

Meransiel and Leiskyrie haven't posted today - I'll wait to resubmit my vote on hiphop until they do.

Pre-edit: StrangerCoug is right, of course.

Pre-edit 2: ...like I said, I'll

wait

on resubmitting my vote on hiphop until Meransiel and Leiskyrie have voted.

[Packbat]

EBWOP: pedit 2 should say "have posted", not "have voted".

[Packbat]

hiphop: any reaction to Ghostlin?

[Packbat]

Sigh, hiphop is town.
But fuck, really?

Care to enlighten us?

[Packbat]

That's a hammer. I would have rather waited for Meransiel and Leiskyrie to return before going to twilight, but I suppose we may still hear from them if they log on soon.

[Packbat]

Scum powers:

4: nothing
3: delayed kill
2: kill (delayed kill lost)
1: kill + ninja godfather

Yeah, strong.

This actually makes no sense to me. As I said in-thread, delayed kill is

better

than immediate-kill in this setting until, basically, MyLo or LyLo. The only advantage of immediate-kill is that the detoxer has no time to work - delay means that town doesn't get the powers right away.

[Packbat]

well, just to put a metaphor to this, what I'm hearing is as if the yankees beat [insert bad team here] by a score of 38-0, and didn't get the recognition for most runs scored by a team in a game because the [bad team] committed 17 errors or something rediculous.

If the Yankees beat [insert bad team here] by 38-0 ... well, you don't actually

know

if the Yankees are any good or not. You know they

aren't as terrible

, but it's impossible to tell if they were (a) mediocre, (b) good, (c) excellent, or (d) spectacular.

Even so, I'd say that the town would have to be fairly decent to nail scum D2 and D3, even if you gave them no credit whatsoever for D1.

PEdit: In the Dead Thread, I was told I got the nod because Ghostlin said StrangerCoug and I were town.

[Packbat]

...true.

[Packbat]

@packbat: I picked 38 because it would be the most runs scored by a team in a game in MLB history. If the yankees were just mediocre against [insert bad team], I'm sure they'd still win, but they wouldn't score more runs in a game than any team in history.

How many minis have towns that lynch perfectly? How many of those are against a 4 member scum group? How many of those were against a scum group that (in theory) gets progressively stronger?

Aside from the town execution being flawless (perfect lynching), how many scum mistakes or poor play in this game were unforced vs. influenced by the town pressuring scum into making those mistakes?

Ah, I see what you mean, now. Yeah, I agree that town did well, even if you give them no credit for the accidental hammer D1 - and I'd say town gets credit for pinning one scum to the wall fast enough to make that hammer possible. And the first three lynches came before town had any powers whatsoever.

(That said, I don't think we'll find any comparable past games, being as until very recently minis have been limited to 12. 8v4 is just a bit ridiculous.)

[Packbat]

Colour Claim

The game is safe from a mass claim right at the beginning. I definitely checked that. Assuming the scum split themselves 1/1/2 across the colours (which is why I gave them the colours), it gives scum all the power as far as night targets go, and it really just splits up the game into 3 mini games, with 3v1/3v1/3v2 pools of scum. I ran the numbers and it actually favours scum quite a bit.
The problem with what happened here is that scum fake claimed while obtaining no claim information from anybody else.
What I haven't looked at is a mid-game claim, and I think that is where it breaks down for scum, although not as completely as it did here.

I think for that purpose, I'd run the set up with colours unaware of what colour they are even with death.
This would remove claiming as a tactic. Players will still be able to work out what colour they had in common with dead people, but it wouldn't be as mod-confirmed.

If it's safe from an opening massclaim and usually safe from an endgame massclaim, I think what you need to do is

tell scum that

so they're (slightly) less likely to bone themselves.

[Packbat]

Seacore: do you want to post QT links?

[Packbat]

Battousai's suggestions sound good to me - running the game as a large with uneven color distribution is perfectly feasible, and there are plenty of secondary and tertiary colors to select from. Heck, combine that with not telling people their colors in the PMs and you'll have

loads

of room for confusion as flips go by!

[Packbat]

And, obviously, secondary colors would get powers with deaths of

either

of their primaries.

And, also obviously, you don't have to stick with red-yellow-blue; not only would red-

green

-blue would make perfect sense if you switched from a palette to a rainbow metaphor, CYMK would even add an obvious miller in the form of black and give even more color options (and make blue, red, and green

secondary

colors, with all the delicious confusion that would imply).