ASOIAF: Test of Faith Mafia (Game Over!)

[Setael]

If Vezok flips scum those that actively chose to not vote uber-VI Vezok and instead went with LMP have juicy, juicy scum waiting to be picked hiding in that list.

How is joining an RVS wagon in any way "actively choosing" LMP over Vezok? If Vezok flipped scum, I'd actually look at you as a likely buddy for trying to tie random voters to him.

Why is getting off an L-3 (I think) wagon a scum-tell when Saint K's vote was the first vote and clearly RVS? Should he be required to keep his RVS vote on a wagon if he doesn't see it as valid?

Why is it scummy to get on but we're not allowed to question anyone who gets off?

vote: MoI

[Setael]

Here’s the clincher … how was voting you taking your obv-fake claim seriously? I know you very well fake-claim pointlessly out the wazoo.

But you took my joke counter-claim of your vig claim DEADLY seriously. And it clearly was a joke. I’m not a moron who out himself as Vig Page 1 to a joke claim. I would have just shot you if that was the case.

So if you knew her vig claim was a joke, and your cc was a joke, why did you vote DGB? Especially with all these juicy scum on the LMP wagon, why not single out the one you found scummiest and vote them?

I note that you’ve ignored the conditional aspect of my statement. Cudos.

While you're noting things, take down that I think you're scum. (Why are you always scum?)

DGB, if I weren't married, or if I were Mormon, I'd propose to you. For reelz.

You do realize Mormons aren't polygamist, right? Joke fail.

[Setael]

So, why, yes, seeing as there are a couple walls of text already, I am going to shamelessly jump on the SK wagon. The "I'm rusty as hell" card (like most cards) + very weird answers to questions (by the way, the rusty-card is considered one of the weird answers) isn't going to cut it. Sorry SK.

Not seeing this at all. "I haven't been around awhile and wanted to play longer with LMP," is a far cry from playing an "I'm rusty" card. Crap reason to join a wagon with momentum.

Ping! There's so much packed in here it's amazing. A vote can either be shameless or supported by stuff, if you want to term them like that, but this uses the shameless card to play as carefree wind-in-my-hair Townie while nervously putting in a little 'this and this seems off' to justify jumping on. Using the fact that there have been wallposts to directly justify jumping on the SK wagon when there is a middle ground, after all, is shamelessly manipulative in pretending to be the helpful Townie in not posting too much. And the apology? There's no sincerity in the decision to have posted that apology (a sincere decision doesn't require a sincere apology - I mean that it looks inorganic as a part of the post).

Also, stop making connections, especially such vague ones. "Something going on" is a useful thing to say in case one of them looks like a more or less attractive target later on. And it is fake fake fake scumhunting, completely divorced from analysis of context.

I agree with this so hard.

I actually like Maemuki as scum better than MoI at this point. Especially after votes like this one:

Vote: MoI

Vezok is his sacrificial scum-bus-buddy he was prepping for later.

unvote, vote: Maemuki

[Setael]

Saetal's point on MoI is that he disagreed with what you and Emp are pushing on SK. Yeah, *big* scumtell there.

What thread are you reading?

[Setael]

Magua is scum. States he might vote MOI because he hasn't liked what he's read, then says he's not reading the LMP/LB/MOI posts because it's all noise but then chooses LMP as scummiest of the three. If he's not reading the LMP/LB/MOI interaction he'd have no real reason to switch his suspicion from MOI to LMP. (The only reason he's given for this is the speed at which MOI's wagon grew. Not good enough.) So either he's lying about not reading, or he's manufacturing reads.

His Maemuki vote is also suspect. All he's said about her is a general statement that he thinks she's scummy after asking AGM all these questions about why he was voting SK over Mae.

It's possible he's buddies with MOI or Mae or both. The *pressure* he's put on either of them could easily be soft bussing. There's also a chance he's trying to link himself to TownMOI to get cred when MOI flips.

unvote, vote: Magua

@Andy: Whether scum or town, in the games I've played with Faraday he was for the most part charming and light hearted and I don't recall him ever antagonizing a specific player, or allowing another player to get to him. I don't know what to make of his play here. Do you have meta reasons to see this as more scum Faraday than town Faraday?

I'm not confident that MOI is scum. I hate Kast's vote. Partly because it's purely based on the assumption he and vezok are buddies and partly because it's the only thing he's bothered to post all game. I don't get the impression it's scum bussing a partner, more like scum watching a strong townie go down in flames and content to just sit back and let it happen. I don't like MOI as the lynch today. Though I was voting him for more than Thor repped me as, it still was never strong enough to justify this kind of wagon.

[Setael]

My vote should be on Magua.

Corrected - ooba

[Setael]

I don't think it's a given that Magua is CR instead of mafia.

Well, obviously not. That would be naughty.

It was either MoI or SK, and I fancy a MoI lynch.

Why is Magua out of the picture for you?

[Setael]

First off, I was asked to vote either MoI or your hydra. I considered MoI scummier. My vote would've gone to SK otherwise, but I thought the idea of the game was to lynch scum?

This really bothers me, and it bothered me when you voted before. Now you're excusing your vote because a player asked you to, when supposedly you don't know that player's alignment.

I also hate the WIFOM you're using about why you unvoted. Scum are just as likely to do what you did in order to try to look townie (especially if they know the wagon is about to flip town), as they are to sit on the wagon and keep their mouth shut.

unvote, vote: Nexus

[Setael]

Sure you can. (Maybe not the wifom, but you know, other stuff.) Here, maybe these questions will help.

What about Andy's play made you post this?

Andy:

unvote vote: MoI

Happy?

What did you find scummy about MoI and SK? Why are they the only 2 you were considering voting? Why did you choose MoI over SK?

Did you ever reread Magua? If so, what did you think?

[Setael]

@DGB: What stalling are you taking about? He's V/LA for 2 more days. He checked the thread while on vacation.

[quote="MOI"]@MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 3pm EST until Wedensday for an actual Vacation. I will likely only have very limited Internet access via Phone during that time.[/quote]

Rather than criticisizing anyone who talks about anything but MOI and freaking out that he's not posting WHILE V/LA, we should be discussing other scumminess, of which there is plenty. (I'm looking at Magua, Mae and nexus).

[Setael]

@DGB: What stalling are you taking about? He's V/LA for 2 more days. He checked the thread while on vacation.

@MOD – I’ll be V/LA from today at 3pm EST until Wedensday for an actual Vacation. I will likely only have very limited Internet access via Phone during that time.

Rather than criticisizing anyone who talks about anything but MOI and freaking out that he's not posting WHILE V/LA, we should be discussing other scumminess, of which there is plenty. (I'm looking at Magua, Mae and nexus).

[Setael]

Well, if anyone has a right to be impatient, it's me since I've been playing way too much skype mafia lately. I think it's ridiculous, however, that the first wagon is being dangled by several players as they yell, "Anyone who dares to even THINK about anything but this wagon is highly suspect!" when most the reasons for voting MOI in the first place are hardly airtight. It's being used as an excuse to avoid looking elsewhere and a reason to ridicule those who actually try.

[Setael]

I'm just confused. This is not what I would expect from MoI town at L-1, but nor is it what I would expect from MoI scum. I still think we should wait until his V/LA is officially over. There's a chance the weirdness is just due to lack of time and V/LA distractions.

[Setael]

You'll especially like a claim from me.

Can't think of any town motivation to say this when you have only a few votes.

vote: Benmage

[Setael]

Town has no reason to soft claim like you did. They would, instead, I don't know, maybe scum hunt and get a more attractive wagon going. Try to get out of it without making themselves a NK target. Scum motivation is obv - makes your fake claim more believable later on. Scum is also not concerned about being a NK target, so.

[Setael]

Ok yeah, bad logic.

unvote

V/LA until Tuesday.

[Setael]

I'll try to read up and post tonight. Tomorrow morning at the latest.

[Setael]

I'm not finished reading, but I keep falling asleep so I'm going to post this and then finish tomorrow.

@DGB, LMP & AGM: what's the scum motivation for someone predicting a janitoring of their flip?

I have no experience with a janitor, but based on the fact that no one seems bothered by posts 461 - 463 (DGB & LMP call for a hammer based on the janitor comment and then AGM hammers), clearly it's something that scum would feel comfortable attacking MoI for. I think one of {DGB, LMP, AGM} are likely scum. LMP definitely the most likely since DGB and AGM are obvtown.

[Setael]

I would prefer that no one hammer as I have sprouted a second head and we would like to post before the day ends.

[Setael]

That hammer was immensely scummy, especially considering I had just asked for a little time. I'll be shocked if SK flips scum.

[Setael]

That hammer was immensely scummy, especially considering I had just asked for a little time. I'll be shocked if SK flips scum.

On the minuite chance that SK is town then scum caught right here.

Whether SK is town or scum, that hammer was scummy. It was clearly made solely to stifle discussion.

[Setael]

Espeonage is definitely scum, and not just for his reaction to SK's claim (which is scummy regardless of SK's flip). If for some reason I'm not here to post tomorrow, town needs to look back at the posts Espeonage clears Benmage and vezok for in comparison to the rest of his initial post.

[Setael]

Waiting on approval of our name. In the mean time...

Scum Reads

Espeonage

- In his first post, Espeonage says that by page 4 of the thread he was sure MoI was town based on meta. Questions why people were voting MoI and singles out Kast's vote in Post 98 in particular as being weak (this will be important in a moment)
- He gives Benmage "town points" for his post at the bottom of Page 5, which consists of nothing more than two pieces of equally awful sheeping on Spy's attacks on MoI...

as well as Kast's vote - which Espeonage had already written off as bad

. Note the admission on Benmage's part that he hadn't read the entirety of the game up to that point. This will also be relevant shortly.
- Espeonage returns to Benmage later for his two posts on Page 14, again giving him "town points" for "trying to unstagnate the game"... except these two posts basically entailed again admitting to not having read the game, putting MoI at L-1 (this is the same person Espeonage had written off as town, remember) and only realising that his vote was in fact the L-1 vote after having placed it.

- Then he clears vezok as town for one post on pg. 3 where he’s attacking SK. Says nothing else about him other than declaring him town and asking him to “try” after he sheeps Thor with a Benmage vote.

- His reasoning for putting me as his #2 is basically active lurking. Though I admit my activity level hasn’t been the best, this attack definitely applies to both Benmage and vezok and yet he gives them a town pass.

So basically, his reads are contradictory and make no sense. Likely scum buddying to townies that he doesn’t want to go up against. And then declaring scum reads on easy prey (SK and me).

- There is also, of course, Espeonage’s play re: the SK wagon. This has been hashed out enough, by Spyrex in particular.

- And then there’s Maemuki who was obvscum. Her vote is terrible (already highlighted by Bilbo) and her second post is horrible - waffling on MoI and undermining her own reads to avoid responsibility.

LMP

Scum would’ve been highly motivated to see MOI mislynched. After the janitor statement, they’d have felt confident seeing it through to a lynch without too much repercussion. Of those who pushed it to a lynch, LMP is most likely scum. Listed me as a top scum read with no reasoning. AGM asked him about it and he didn’t respond. Need to ISO him.

hascow

Scummy reaction to SK’s claim. “I see something off about it too. Not sure if it's what you see, but I see something.” Scum waffling. Way too easy for him to make up whatever as the thing he supposedly saw if SK flips town. If whatever is being seen is just based on the vanilla pm in thread, why be so cryptic? If it’s something else, why soft claim here?


SK is flailing town. Espeonage is scum regardless of SK’s alignment. He should be today’s lynch.

vote: Espeonage

[Setael]

1. Setatel doesn't understand wagon momentum.

Explain what you mean by this. Are you referring to your original SK vote?

2. I have played with vezok ALOT. I feel like I can actually read his alignment fairly well. I judged him town.
3. Ummm, no. Vezok is town based on a strong meta understanding. ben is town because of reasons I have explained already...

Are you saying your town read on Benmage and Vezok had nothing to do with the

content

of their posts? Even a gut read has to be based on

something

, so what was it?

and you are scum for active lurking AS WELL AS completely ignoring most of what was important whenever you did post.

Because I didn't have a scum read on either of the 2 main wagons, that means I ignored "what was important"? If all I'd done d1 was sheep everyone else and vote MoI or SK like Ben and vezok did, then I'd be town?

I don't expect you to defend Mae, but you can't escape how incredibly scummy her posts were. The fact that yours are pretty scummy as well is just icing on the cake.

Um, hello?

What exactly am I supposed to say in response to people just voting for me but not explaining why? Unless I missed some explanation in Hind's post.

*caught for wrong reasons*

This.

Happy with a lynch of either cow or Espeonage.

[Setael]

(Still haven't heard back about the hydra name. Probably should've quoted that as CyberSet.)

PEdit: my vote's on Espeonage

[Setael]

Oh, my vote's not showing up. Probably because I can't post as the hydra yet? Consider my vote on Espeonage.

[Setael]

hey so just chiming in with a few extra little things against espeon so as to prevent him from totally going under the radar again

- Espeonage has been active lurking since his first main post. Ironic, since that's his sole reason for putting me as his #2 scum pick.

- His push against me has been really scummy. He asks people to explain their town read, but never follows up when he's ignored.

- His attack has been really soft. He's not going after me like I'd expect a townie to who thinks i'm scum. Instead, it's subtle pushing that looks like an attempt to avoid too much attention.

- Looking back at his reaction to SK's claim, the "I like how the scummy post comes just after I say that SK is town" is especially bad, like he's trying to say it before someone can attack him for it.

more detail on these is in the works but we just wanted to get it out there now in case someone hammers SK.

Um, hello?

What exactly am I supposed to say in response to people just voting for me but not explaining why? Unless I missed some explanation in Hind's post.

*caught for wrong reasons*

This.

How so?

The last sentence in his post is undermining his own defence; he's basically implicitly saying "the points I saw in Hind's post are bad, but maybe there was something I missed that was on the money?" in an effort to make himself look less aggressive and nonthreatening. It's a fairly common scum thing to do when a wagon is building on them for reasons they think are mostly bunk.

[Setael]

What Spyrex said.

vote: Espeonage

This is the one that needs to happen today. He gets a scummy for Most Likely to Flip Scum.

[Setael]

Espeonage, please enlighten me as to what is "important" and why my suspicion of you is not... "important".

[Setael]

THANK YOU.

Yes, still waiting on hydra name approval.

[Setael]

Empking, can you please share the scum motivation for Benmage to pull this gambit? They could possibly both flip town, while Esp is scum. So, no brainer.

@Esp: What does it mean to say "this has gone far past OMGUS?" Does that mean you think we have solid reasons for thinking you're scum? Because... we do. So just saying over and over that we don't is ridiculous. (And is also what scum is likely to do, FYI). The "if people recall" is so sketchy. First, we were never on you for omgus. Second, you're pushing so subtly without bothering to give reasons and while attempting to not draw too much attention. Not to mention the active lurking (which is the ENTIRE case you had on me. Though now it's magically transformed to a case based ENTIRELY on "omgus".) You're scum. You need to die.

[Setael]

I think everything is true about this claim except alignment.

Right. So, if Cyber or Esp flips mafia, I'm pretty sure this is a bus.

Wrong.

[Setael]

LOL. Idiots.