Lemming Mafia - Mini 1196

[Me=Weird]

/confirm

[Me=Weird]

Per-ry and forest-ry are totally jealous

I am. I'm last or close to it, and I know which one I want but won't get.

Vote: PeregrineV

Quit whining.
Let's see, I know ani, TwistedSpoon, maybe CMAR. Also taz, the guy who got modkilled for linking ongoing games one times. And posted a lot. And was annoying.

Unvote, Vote: Tazaro

[Me=Weird]

I'm feeling fairly happy with my vote right now. I don't recall tazaro doing this so much, and it just reads like jumpy scum trying to blend in.

[Me=Weird]

Actually, taz, no you didn't seem even close to as jumpy in that game as you are here. And that post just reeked of overdefensiveness. Plus, peregrine makes a good point against you.

[Me=Weird]

I don't really get the peregrine case. He's been pretty useless yes, but not scummy. I'm dropping the my taz vote now.

Unvote, Vote: forest_air

First he sheeped a dumb vote from peregrine. Then he voted tazaro with no explanation but "could be scum".

I haven't been able to get engaged with this game very well. Hopefully that will change when I have time this week.

[Me=Weird]

@M=W- Bad post. Its like a prod avoidance post. Your reasoning on F_A is baseless and reads to me as "I need to get someone in here or I will be thought of as a lurker." I understand you are not into the game yet so here is a vote to help you get motivated.

lay. Here are some solid points that explain why I'm laughing at you.
1. My reasoning is not baseless. I very much hated the "could be scum". Furthermore, you haven't made a better vote.
2. I'm not scared of being called a lurker. It often seems like I lurk because everybody else posts quite often and I only post once a day.
3. I don't need to "get someone in here" because I already had had a vote that I would have been able to defend fairly well. Wouldn't scum take the less risky route?
4. You accuse me of just putting stuff in here, and then you vote me to "help me get motivated". Now who's putting stuff in there?

Peregrine's 173 rubs me the wrong way. He defends the case by arguing that other people are voting too, instead of defending the case.

farside, can we get a prod on forest_air?
Also, do the names of the missions have anything to do with what the missions are?

[Me=Weird]

@Me=Weird-My asking mike about a statement he made in response to a question I asked him "rubs you the wrong way"? Like back to front or something?
Which of the 13 words rubbed the hardest?
You know what, maybe your just posting stream of consciousness right now. I went into further detail in 177 and 179. Let's see how those rub you.

Sarcasm: Now a scum-tell. You are vastly overreacting and being more sarcastic than I really see town doing.
As for what you said in 179,

So, I'm asking you why do you think those other two players voted Forest? I didn't see a case, you didn't see a case. Is that normal? Typical? Do you think it's a reason to look into the voting players? Or not?

This doesn't make much sense, and I almost get the feeling you made it up on the spot. Because it sure looked like you were saying there was a case when you wrote "so why are so-and-so voting him?". That makes it sound like you were challenging him. If you were doing what you said you, it would have been better to say "why do you think so-and-so are voting him?".

[Me=Weird]

@Me=Weird-My asking mike about a statement he made in response to a question I asked him "rubs you the wrong way"? Like back to front or something?
Which of the 13 words rubbed the hardest?
You know what, maybe your just posting stream of consciousness right now. I went into further detail in 177 and 179. Let's see how those rub you.

Sarcasm: Now a scum-tell. You are vastly overreacting and being more sarcastic than I really see town doing.

This is not over reaction. This is sarcasm, and very light sarcasm at that. Did you bother reading my posts afterwards on the same topic?
And do you know the purpose of the sarcasm in the post above?

Excuse me? "You know what, maybe your just posting stream of consciousness right now." This looks like a somewhat overreaction, bordering on personal attack. That is so not "Light" sarcasm.

As for what you said in 179,

So, I'm asking you why do you think those other two players voted Forest? I didn't see a case, you didn't see a case. Is that normal? Typical? Do you think it's a reason to look into the voting players? Or not?

This doesn't make much sense, and I almost get the feeling you made it up on the spot. Because it sure looked like you were saying there was a case when you wrote "so why are so-and-so voting him?". That makes it sound like you were challenging him. If you were doing what you said you, it would have been better to say "why do you think so-and-so are voting him?".

They are questions you should ask yourself.

And I get the impression you do not want me to talk to other players like they are intelligent, but should use kid gloves and leading questions. Would that be better?

What are questions you think I should ask myself? And no, I do not "want you to talk to other players like they are intelligent, but should use kid gloves and leading questions.", I was just saying you used very ambiguous wording. You have a scumtastic attitude right now.

"My case was scummy posting. Are you saying it's not scummy posting?"
You could try going into specifics you know, except it's you.

@M=W- How would you think is the best way as scum to stay involved but not become really noticed. I.E> Dont lurk but dont become the center of attention.

Is this an attack on me? Because if it's just a question, you need rephrase it.

ani, where are you? Do you know what I think of people who are pretty active at first and then drop off?

Chuju, I don't believe I have played with togtof.
Also, this is completely off topic, but I just noticed that the new halo smiley is between the angry scum and happy scum smileys. Which is kinda weird.
Also off-topic is that nikanor was actually the first to call me that(mew).

Togtof, why exactly are you voting me now?

Also, Pick: Concrete Mixer

[Me=Weird]

I dont see why it needs to be rephrased. Assuming you are scum, how would you go about playing your game? I play mafia with the assumption that Scum generally dont want to be noticed. You do this by attempting to look as towny as possible. How would you play your game so that attention is not drawn towards you yet make sure that you are active enough so people dont notice you for lurking?

The only conscious difference for me is being more on the lookout for PR tells. It seems very much like you are making out that I am doing what you describe [as how you'd think scum would act]. It needed to be rephrased mostly by your lack of question marks, which threw it off a bit for me.
You have failed to answer my question about why I'm scummy. Answer in your next post or I'll [redacted] you.

Peregrine: I dislike how you say I avoided questions again. You only asked the one time, so saying again is just villifying me. Furthermore, when you did ask, it's not like you were all that clear on what questions, as should be obvious by my asking for an explanation. You also didn't respond anything to me, so why should I answer you? However, I will answer since I'm in a good mood.
1. Yes, though I didn't see much in 177. But how can you even ask this when I just quoted part of 179 at you?
2. Why are you asking me? Too lazy to go look yourself?
3. This and 4 are very broad questions that cannot just be answered. It's a very big difference from noobs like, say, you and togtog doing it and people like yosarian, or pj.
5. Perhaps a reason to look into them a bit more, but judging from this playerlist, it's looking like nothing too different.
6. Because as I said above, it looks like it's not too odd.
7. The whole thing about "Then why are twistedspoon and Jedo voting him?".
8. My my, you are dense. Ever think it's because you've been scummy?

You're really stretching things here. Failure to answer questions and overreactions to them is not only borderline contradictory, but also flat out wrong. So yeah, I'm seriously considering voting you.

[Me=Weird]

Having said that Me=W looking super defensive at the moment. ISO on him doesn't look great at all - why do you have a vote on an inactive slot by the way ? - what did they do to offend you ?

Why am I being "super" defensive? And I have explained my forest vote, though now it's time to move on.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

Stuff I've brought up earlier, such as overreacting, dumb questions, didn't answer one of my questions, attacked me for avoiding questions, when the questions in question(heh) were one's I'd asked if he was wanting me to answer, and he heavily implied that I'd repeatedly ignored lots of questions. Plus being either wrong or lying about me overreacting to them.
And now, most recently ignoring my entire post.

[Me=Weird]

All of your recent posts have been defensively orientated and answering attacks on you - would you actually post anything if there wasn't a particular attack on yourself to defend ?

Have you not read my attacks on forest and peregrine?

I think it would be obvious. But maybe not. So, do you think it's scummy?

Generally, the way to convince people you're town is to explain your suspicions, rather than saying "it should be obvious" or "why do you think so".

So you admit he is scummy./Oh wait, yes you do.

"I'm going to completely ignore the point and strawman."* is what I get out of this. *I

think

I was right about what strawmanning is.

I didn't ignore it, I just figured you felt you answered to the best of your ability. Do you want me to keep up the fight telling you your answers where horrible?

No, but there were some points against you in that post.

Do you want me to pioint out that you did ignore the questions, because you are quoting me quoting you quoting me.

The only questions I ignored were the ones I was asking about, and ones that were either pointless ones asked sarcastically, or the one that if you'd read my posts, you'd know as I directly quoted 179.

[Me=Weird]

re Peregrine, yes I saw that but again post 277 which I presume you were referring to is essentially you responding to an attack from Peregine on yourself as pretty much all your posts recently have been.

Actually, I'd been leading up to an attack on peregrine for a couple posts. If this is meant to be an attack on me, it's an incredibly weak point, especially considering that there are some people who haven't been doing

anything.

Possible V/LA tomorrow.

[Me=Weird]

Not you. Please let it be a dream that jilynne replaced in!

Due to computer problems, no access for up to a week, though I should be back by the weekend.

[Me=Weird]

Hey I'm back. Will post this afternoon.

[Me=Weird]

I didn't like malp's 335. First off, he says that taz has been about the only one contributing, which was not true at all, and I remember times I've replaced in as scum and initially named one main town or scum read. Plus the whole thing about "only" a week til deadline.
Taz, can you please drop the thing about lemming pledge being vanilla. It isn't helpful and is just distracting. Also, are you seriously calling peregrine town because he's new and reminds you of wraith? I played in wraiths first game. He got modkilled, but if he hadn't, he would've gotten lynched anyway. He was scum. New doesn't mean town.
On another note, how am I lurker? I was contributing regularly until computer problems made me go V/LA. You bring attention to 943. I contributed as much or less in that game, though everybody else was just a lot less active. As for the other part, you hit the nail on the head. You knew I was town. Whether consciously or not, that influenced you.
Ironically, jilynne sounds over defensive when she asked how she was over defensive. And I'm just going to not respond to jilynne now, because it won't accomplish anything.
I'm voting peregrine for reasons later on.
Scumbuddies: malpasc, tazaro. Alternate might actually be chuji, with the too townie thing. I wouldn't vote him til lylo though.
In response to your attack, the questions from 218 I asked for clarification on, which you conveniently ignored in 272, after which I answered. Which I never overreacted to. I didn't overreact to togtog either. It genuinely looked to me like he might not have wanted an answer and was attacking me. 296 was not an OMGUS. OMGUS is voting someone purely because they voted you. I voted you because of scumtasticness. Re 432, do you know what a FoS is? Finger of Suspicion. Meaning you suspect mike for it.

If I recall, much of the "cases" on me sound like "he's got a scum attitude!" So, when they drive home their cases with concise bullet points, we'll find out what the specifics are. Then we'll see if I can refute them.

You mean like this?

• Complete refusal to explain
  your own
  suspicions
  
• Strawmanning(ignoring the point and picking at one little thing)
  
• Ignoring my self-defense
  
• Asking distractingly irrelevant questions
  
• Overreactions
  
• Sarcasm and generally having an anti-town attitude.

Hope I didn't miss anything.
Oh yeah, here's a bonus about why malp is scum:
Scum read on malpasc. Reasons: Voted peregrine because deadline is too close, which looks like a lame excuse to vote a high bandwagon. Then he says that he has good reasons. I also really don't like how he keeps calling taz town just because he posts a lot. I also find it scummy how he points the finger at the lurkers. If he does flip scum, I'm going to look at the more active players. He also calls taz town because there are no links to anyone else, and it's way too early to look for connections.
Taz is situational, depending on other flips. He's more of a placeholder almost.

[Me=Weird]

malp, are you seriously saying that taz was the only one contributing? You are so the day 2 lynch. inb4 "lining up lynches OMG scum!"
And then taz accepts the possibility without question? I don't get on one day and you all go crazy?
Peregrines looking like trapped scum to me. First off, ignoring the points he specifically asked for. Then posting distracting records of votes against him. Is this new vote on malp another one that you'll only explain as being obvious or something? I'm probably not going to be able to post again before deadline.

[Me=Weird]

Oversoul, aren't there medicines you should be taking? You come in here screaming how I am scum, but didn't post anything about why until your most recent post.

M=w was sheeping wagons in the beginning with your wagon, Forest Air's wagon, and then Pere's wagon before which he had called useless.

I did not sheep taz's wagon. I started it.
I did not sheep forest's wagon. I joined independently, and I alone had good reasons.
I did not sheep pere's wagon. I changed my mind about him being scum(I previously hadn't thought so), and voted for him while giving my reasons, which I repeatedly backed up.
Abridged version: Your "case" is worthless bs.

Now for the important stuff.

Vote: Chuji Kunisada

A weak point that only works with my main point is that "I had expected someone to die last night" is probably because he was the virtually unsuspected mafia who performed the kill.
What I'm saying is that I role-blocked Chuji Kunisada last night.

[Me=Weird]

Well, that's some good news considering our town lynch yesterday.

What did we decide was best as far as discussing the mission powers? On the one hand, I would prefer scum not to have more information than they already do, but I also don't want town to get all the useless missions.

Another thought which occurs to me: I don't like that other people will know what I will be getting. That could be pretty good information for the scum. Is there something we can do with regard to this? Should maybe the same people get those missions?

Vote: Jedo

This post is a person being fake town. I especially dislike the first sentence.

Quick ISO shows decent scumhunting but all on the same player. I see few reads from him on anyone.

Oversoul has also caught my eye with his comment on Mafia Kills. Maybe he assumes a doc protection because he knows mafia can not be blocked? Unfortunately, mod confirmed kill can be blocked so that idea is out the window. Doesn't mean I am not curious with Oversoul...

Not to buddy, Jedo, but I do have a town read on him and I read that statement as.

Oh good that no one died last night considering we screwed up and lynched a town yesterday. Also, he proposes another plan for town to try and get the better roles and leave the others for scummy players.

I didn't realize that roleblocking a mafia member stops a nightkill if he chose to nightkill. I don't understand your last 2 sentences starting with unfortunately, though. Could you expand on that?

Not to buddy, Oversoul, but that's kind of the point. It's thought of as a scum-tell to comment about the Night Kill. Personally, I don't know that mafia do it any more than town.

Either way, why is everyone automatically assuming it is a roleblock?

If you mean before, it was probably more hoping so as that would strongly point at someone to be scum. If you mean now, maybe because I claimed a role-block? And neither that nor anything else I posted has been responded to by you. I think that you may be overconfident fairly new scum. Which leads me to my next point:
Chuji, I'm sure I dumped some icky sticky stuff on you, so if Oversoul can "confirm" your action, then you're both lying scumbags and I'm going to ensure that you're lynched. Only one tiny possibility that it's not like that.

farside: Under your ruleset, if I were to role-block somebody, it would stop all of their actions, correct?

[Me=Weird]

To your question: the concept I am thinking of is that not very many town actions are actually confirmable by their target. M=W's taking a risk based on this concept is not far-fetched at all.

Right. I would fake a role-block on someone I didn't seem to suspect knowing that there would be fair chance for it to be disproved. That makes complete sense.

Why did you role-block Chuji ? Your top remaining scum reads were Mal and Tazaro ... doesn't make sense you went for Chuji above these two.

Exactly the point. If they're in a scum team, they'd probably be the least likely to submit a kill due to the possibility of tracker or, as may have been the case, roleblocker. I say that because it's possible my RB was irrelevant to the kill.

With the number of power roles that (may be) floating about, use of the role block by town is potentially counter-productive - using it on your 'alternative' on the grounds that he's 'too townie' looks bollocks to me. You've read the 'Role Blocker needs to claim' stuff and sensed an easy mis-lynch. A town Me=Weird role blocks Mal here.

Right- it's high risk, high reward. I used it on chuji because if he is scum, then he by far the most likely to submit a kill. Also, going into WIFOM-y territory here, but if I were scum and wanted an easy lynch, why would I have used it on chuji, instead of who you think I should've, mal?
It's already been stated I think, but saying again. My role-block would not have done anything to the neighborhood, as chuji didn't choose anyone, and it wasn't an active ability.

Can someone please confirm that M-W was the roleblocker and blocked CK or was that just speculation?

I don't get this. Nobody can confirm it. And what do you mean by speculation? I claim to have done that.

You are so infuriating. How have we not confirmed ourselves? Apart from giving you the damn link we can't.

lay. Even if it's confirmed that you were neighbors, you are by no means confirmed town. Otherwise it just wouldn't work if scum picked one of them. Thus, uncomfirmed.

Unvote, Vote: Malpasc

Chuji has remained acting town, but by no means is he close to being thought of as uber-town by me, if that makes sense.
Malpasc on the other hand, well, it's not that I doubt there are 2 rbs, but cement doesn't make sense to me. See, mine is concrete/cement whatever mixer, and I dump it on peoples feet. They can't go anywhere, so no action. Cement looks like dried cement, so I don't see what you'd do with it except throw it at people.
Plus, the way he is so against the possibility of there being two rbs, and so repetitive, screams scum trying to win a dichotomy of me/him.

OK so Me=W is scum number 1,
Mal looks a pretty clear scum number 2

Though this isn't necessarily scummy, you've left my town list. Seriously, 2 scum, both claiming rbs, one of whom is cc'ing the other.

[Me=Weird]

I could understand two cops, since one of them could be on scum's hands, and the mission would disapear with lynches.
2 docs would be highly unlikely, unless there are two scumteams.
2 RBs makes no sense at all. One JK and one RB would be ok, but two RBs is just stupid. Come on, most of the PRs is on town's hands. RB is technicaly an anti-town role, in some way.

What? 2 cops? Maybe approaching balancing if there's one for scum and one for town. If not, not.
Why should there have to be 2 scum-teams for there to be two docs? It's already a weak role due to the unlikelyhood of it being successful.
2 roleblocks is feasible. Note that I said I didn't necessarily doubt that there's 2 rbs, I just found his way of claiming and how it came about as scummy. Plus the other bad stuff I've mentioned before.

M=W role-name explanation is nearly headdesking. You throw cement at someone, but concrete is to dump on people's feet? btw, OMGUS is not nice.

What's your flavor explanation then? And I agree, OMGUS is not nice. Do you have a reason for saying this, or is it normal for you to randomly throw sentences around?

I would reveal my target, but it will be soooooo perfect when I do it that I'd rather wait a bit longer.

Too bad. Reveal now.

For some reason this makes M=W think that hydra is townish.

No. That was because of the hydra's own actions, plus that mal then exceeded them in scumminess.
Also, FTR, I considered changing my action, but by the time I was able to do it, day had started.

Last few times I was scum (admittedly on another site but same theory should apply), scum would leave the townier looking players from doing the kill for the precise reason that they wouldn't want to put them in danger - they are the players most likely to win the game for scum and the worst players to endanger by doing the kill.

I have been scum/read scum QT's several times fairly recently(all completed games), and that almost never happens.

You didn't know this when you did your role block though did you unless I've missed something - (only had time to skim read the Overside-Chuji Mason thing - need to go through it again properly at the weekend) - so this in no way justifies your pick

No, I didn't. You're right. I said that because that would explain why they said they didn't think they'd been roleblocked and oversoul could confirm that, but that doesn't mean I didn't roleblock them.

So you think 2 players can't both be scum because they both claimed RB do you ?

When one of them is ccing the other, and they then try to get each other lynched, I'm slightly inclined to think not, that is correct.

I would really like both you and Mew to answer the questions I posed.

What questions? I've looked through your recent ISO, and maybe I forgot how to read, but I didn't really see any except a couple rhetoric ones.
You know what? I'm actually okay with llama's plan. Although mike seems to have taken a definite stance against me, so I'd prefer llama over mike. But why do you want me and mal to have a neighborhood.

Here you are trying to outguess the mod in order to implicate Mal. Have you not seen the pictures that both Pere and Farside have posted? One shows lemmings standing a pier with blocks of cement around their feet. It is entirely possible that Cement also implies a roleblocking function.

I…what? I'm not outguessing the mod. I just made a brief speculation about cement, and explained my flavor stuff. Also, considered that the cement is there because I poured it on them?

Mew 698- You say it is possible that your RB was irrelavent of the kill, yet you still vote me immediately after claiming the roleblock. Also you rb'd me instead of your top scum picks because they were too suspicious... That doesn't seem right to me. I see a roleblocker blocking them to prevent them from performing the kill or at least from activating their ability they picked.

Yeah, because that was the best lead at the time.
I'm fine with lynching taz. He's done just about nothing pro-town, and quite a few thing's not pro-town. Will vote him later.

[Me=Weird]

How about these questions?

Why don't you address the other part of my post where I've told both of you that you shouldn't have come out so quickly with no information? How about starting with why you thought it to be a great idea to play it like you did, comparing that with what I said about the results you are likely to get from that method?

I think you must have forgot how to read because they were in the previous post (in ISO) from which you quoted.

And I think you shouldn't make it look like they're meant solely for mal.
1. Because a. people were saying any rbs/protects should claim and b. because I agreed.
2. I've already explained this, but whatever. I felt that chuji might well have been scum, and if so, he would've been the one to submit the kill. Incidentally, though at the time it probably

wasn't

the best decision, if they were town it didn't matter, and if scum, it was good.
If the last thing is a question, I'm not sure I understand what it's asking.

Taz- Mew claimed after everyone else had a chance to claim the roleblock.

Not true. Neither kublai khan nor togtof had even posted yet.

Nothing interesting yet. I will claim my target if two more people ask it to me.

I think the RB(s) for tonight should block who they think is scummier, or whatever reason they use to decide to RB someone.

You are fucking kidding me. CLAIM YOUR TARGET NOW! IT'S BEEN DECIDED THAT ROLE-BLOCKERS WILL EITHER TARGET EACH OTHER NEIGHBORS! CLAIM TARGET NOW!!!!!

[Me=Weird]

@M=W:Man what's wrong with you? I'm not changing my mind only because you decided to use Caps and to support Taz.

But what did you have to gain by not telling you're target, knowing that if you did claim your target, it might nail down some scum? Also, several people strongly urged you to claim your target. Speaking of which, this really cinches things for me.

Unvote, Vote: Tazaro

Taz is not auto scum for being roleblocked and Malp voting him was stupid because of it. However, Scum voting their roleblocking target? I dont think so...

Except that taz is very likely scum now. Especially with what appears to be overdefensive caught scum. And in these circumstances, why shouldn't scum rb's vote for their target, assuming for an example scum is mal and taz is target?

I don't think that is wise. The role could come back into play on a later day. The only way to remove a role is by lynching or killing the player.

Actually, I don't think that happens.

MOD: Do missions return on later days, i.e. a mission from D1 come back on D4?

Either way, I am at least somewhat supportive of any doc missions claiming.
I have to agree with mal's point that if taz really was vanilla and scum, he would almost certainly have submitted the kill.

Unlikely I guess but if they are both scum, its possible. If it did lead to a 2nd and 3rd mislynch it would probably leave them close to a win.

The thing that's making you look scummier to me is this, how you keep bringing up very unlikely scenarios and saying "well, it's possible.".

llama, what's up with changing JedoJedi to mikemike for roleblockers? Also, I agree that me and mal should be blocked, though like chuji, I don't see where the KK slot comes in.

[Me=Weird]

Why have i not gone after M=W yet today? well I have been generally flakey I guess. Me playing poorly is the reason. Battou hasn't really said much about M=W all game so reason he hasn't gone there is, he doesn't suspect him like I did

Would you mind saying why you suspect me? IIRC you haven't said much about that.
Obligatory AtE, you're bad at 854.
Not much has changed for me in the one page since I last posted.

Pick: Bookie

[Me=Weird]

Hey. Sorry about this with so many V/LA's, but

V/LA until saturday.

[Me=Weird]

@mike: I've already fully explained why I chose him. If that's not good enough for you, too bad.
I think what shadow's saying is that mine didn't contradict what I said D1. Because I had listed chuji as a suspect, but mal was stating taz as towniest.
mal, that sentence didn't make sense.

[Me=Weird]

This game has sucky timing. The night took up most of my free week, and now I'm

Limited Access until the 13th. Should be on a few time's next week, but no guarantees.

The only thing my tired brain is letting me say right now is that it's really bugging me that llama misspelled predator in his sig.

[Me=Weird]

I've mostly been skimming up to this page and 44, so if I missed anything important, tell me.
I understand why mike is getting heat for not blocking chuji, but why isn't oversoul? Is it just because he got cement and concrete mixer wasn't confirmed? Furthermore, if mike is under heat for not blocking obvious choice chuji, why is nobody voting chuji?
Shadow, why such a strong reaction oversoul? Don't you agree that towniest people should get those?
Out of those four, 3 if you don't count myself, I'd vote llama or jedo, in that order. llama hasn't done much at all in the way of scumhunting, jedo less solid reasons, i.e gut/scumvibes. Plus llama feels like bussing.

If he was scum then obvious choice for the Night Kill

Except I wouldn't be, because it was universally agreed the role-blocks go to me and mal.
Are you still going on about the role-block choice?

[Me=Weird]

EBWOP: About being on both town lynches, so was mal, chuji, and jedo.

[Me=Weird]

The thing about that, though, is that it would mean sacrificing the scum kill, which is an idiotic thing to do especially for something so uncontrollable(for lack of better word. Something that could go just about any way, from insta-lynch to confirmed town).
I'm a bit confused with the whole CK thing. Togtof claimed a doc role, right? And says he used it on CK N1? Is that it?

Also, I just learned I'm going to be out of town over the weekend. So yeah, no access.

Really sorry about all the inconvenience, but after this I should be pretty steady activity wise.
On the other hand, a chance to test out the V/LA stuff.
P-edit: Even though I apparently don't matter, llama's plan looks okay.

[Me=Weird]

I'm here, but there really doesn't seem much to say. I guess we're in the boring stage where we just wait for role stuff to happen. This not counting the obvious mike-scum thing, we're just waiting for mal to pick. Oh yeah, and I just want to say the in no way does the cop thing say anything about chuji's towniness. Let me direct you to Royal mafia, specifically twistedspoon.

[Me=Weird]

1214: In that game, we had two claimed 1-shot cops. One of them was real, and mis-vigged. The other, twistedspoon, was scum and faked an investigation on one of his partners whom he declared guilty and bussed to a lynch. So Chuji claiming to have a guilty on mike means little alignment wise. It's not that I doubt he had an investigation, just that it has no bearing on his alignment. Sorry for taking up so much space for such an inconsequential point.
And no, I don't particularly care about possibly being shot. I'm not exactly an important person right now.
TBH, I haven't had much time to carefully analyze and think about any of the plans lately.

[Me=Weird]

Pick: Bookie

Shouldn't the day be over? Votecount says deadline was the 17th, which was yesterday.
Regarding the game, I'm slightly more on chuji's side right now.

[Me=Weird]

I realize that some of this was said by llama, but it wasn't very comprehensive, so I'll try to make it more so.
Scum knows what limo did, so if they wanted to kill him, they wouldn't have targeted him because he'd switch himself. Assuming for a minute he's town, it's unlikely that, not knowing who their kill might be redirected to, they would have killed jedo through him, which means one of two things happened: 1. scum killed jedo who killed oversoul. If this happened, tog is confirmed scum. 2. Scum killed oversoul, and jedo tried to kill tog and instead killed himself. I don't believe this happened as the plan was, I believe, vig either me or oversoul, which would have resulted in 1. In addition, jedo not only said he probably would follow the plan, but also had tog on his townlist and near the end of the day seemed to have removed oversoul from it. Ergo, I believe 1. happened.
In which case tog would be lying about even committing an action, which would leave him free for the nightkill.
Chuji I believe is also scum because the two ways of no death N1, RB and protect on him, I don't really believe he was the kill, as there were other viable kill options at the time, like jedo, shadow, and kublai IIRC. On the other hand, he may very well have been scum as his interactions with mike and tog were minimal(going of D1 right here).
So, calling it now as a chuji, tog(and mike) scum team.
I say we no lynch so we have at least a chance of less possibilities. And now that the other killing card is dead, only one person will be dead so there should be 2 of me, llama, and shadow.

Looking back on it, that might actually have be less comprehensive than what llama said. Oops.

[Me=Weird]

Very well...

I find myself town in an awkward position with scum's actions. Last night made perfect sense for me to pick Jedo over anyone else. If I picked someone more scummy, there was the possibility of being vigged by Jedo. If I picked someone who was for sure town, there was the chance I would end up killing them.

Here is my reasoning and thoughts for what happened last night. Mafia knew of my power but also knew that I would not pick someone in danger of being killed. That left me with the choice of SD, CK, Llama, Jedo or to not use my power at all. At the end of yesterday, I was considered one of the more Pro-town people in the game. It would make sense to kill me as either I would die from fear of using my power on the wrong person, or a Pro-Town player would die. This is also why I picked Jedo out of everyone because his actions yesterday lead me to believe he was the least pro-town.

Anyways, that is the logic behind my power usage and why I think I was targeted.

Shadow is the best clear we have, so his ruling on missions will be final. I still say we should No Lynch today as there are many possibilities to who is scum.

Possible semi scum-slip here. You see, he ignores the possibility that scum would have attempted to kill another strong player

cough*SK*cough

in the hopes of either kill him, or getting tog through the limo. You'd think he might have thought of that seeing as how he seems convinced scum wanted to get him. Also similar is that he ignored the possibility of scum trying to just kill someone else. Plus mandatory WIFOM about whether scum would realize he might think that.

What a bogus. I was typing a huge post to explain what a huge pile of nonsense llama's case is... But TOG beat me to it... In fact, llama, by your logic, TOG scum would have just killed me, knowing for sure that I would not be protected by limo.

For me llama looks a lot like desperate scum who botched the night kill (again) and now has to face a situation where he's likely going to lose to pure PoE unless he manages to frame supposedly confirmed town players. Remarkable conincidence that he not only calls TOG scum but Chuji as his partner... And trying to "clear" M=W in the process.

Well maybe you

could

post what a "pile of nonsense it is" because I don't see that, and all tog did was a crappy attempt at defending himself.
Also why does the second paragraph not also hold true with tog?

How do Chuji's interactions with mike make your scumdar ping?! He claimed a guilty cop investigation on him. Tell me why he should have done that as mike's partner.

No. Fuck no. I knew this would happen. In the linked game in that post, twistedspoon claimed 1-shot cop, a risky move, and claimed a guilty on one of his partners of his own volition. As opposed to chuji, who was forced to claim a result. Don't say this is something scum wouldn't do.

How is Mew cleared? From my perspective scum team has to be hidding in mew-llama-mal. TOG is pretty town, Shadow is pretty damn town. Also Mew/Mal team seems unlikely. Which makes Llama pretty much scum no matter what. The fact that he has been pushing mew confirmed town for so long makes me think mew is his other partner. His defense of mew is that mew wouldn't try and kill me and waste the RB.

Why? Scum could have thought I had a role and wanted to stop it and stop me. They could have not submitted a kill (either through choice or not on in time). He could have roleblocked someone else and tried to out the doc when I was alive (by claiming he blocked me).

As llama said, the unbold part is pretty hypocritical. Why would scum think you particularly had a role that should both RB'd and killed?
Are you seriously suggesting that either scum did that or didn't submit a kill in time? I'm tempted to quote jedi here about crack. In fact, that's going to be my new response to ridiculous things.

I've been suspicious of him since he entered. I don't recall playing with him when he's been this into POE, and not scumhunting. In fact, I don't think he has even scumhunted at all. His action plan last night gave him a role in which he did not have to use and no one would know.

The fact that he is blaming TOG-scum for Jedo death can easily be seen as picking incorrectly (the three best candidates for kill last night would be a roleblocker, the claimed doc, or myself ) In llama's own words:

JJ
Mike
Oversoul

At least two scum in that trio, maybe three.

M=W and TOG are essentially confirmed town here. I really want to put malp in there but can't quite justify it, he doesn't get lynched today though.

and here:

TOG, thats not my point. I see zero reason for scum to have tried to kill you last night, at all. They KNEW what your power was and that you would use it, so they were instead randomly killing someone else of your choosing. Why would they ever make that kill over SD who you agree is obviously town?

They wouldn't.

You screwed up by not killing SD and trying to pin it on malp.

He thought TOG was so town, but scum have no reason to kill a busdriver. Maybe they thought that he couldn't use it on himself, maybe they thought he would use it to target who he thought was scum [he specifically said that he didn't think Shadow was town for his actions, mal could be scum (in fact, pre mike guilty, he thought mal was the best lynch yesterday) and he didn't think mew was confirmed town, but didn't consider him scum] from who he that was town [his wording showed that he thought llama, mew, myself, and possibly jedo (based on his late posts on jedo just being angry town) were townish]. The fact that they killed TOG is that they didn't know who would be protected by the limo and therefore, had to take a risk.

"Oh my God! Are you smoking crack?" Here are some simple facts: mike scum. mike limo. mike talk to scum. scum know limo.
All the stuff about llama previously thinking tog town, guess what: Night actions change things!

The point is, llama thought TOG was so confirmed town, and then switched him to scum based on the fact that scum allegedly tried to kill him even though he had the busdriver role (which means the chance of killing ANYONE, not just the busdriver, who isn't going to be redirected to scum is a gamble). Llama is pretty damn scum.

Are you saying it does make sense for scum to do that?

I am sorry if I came off as nasty there. I'm just a bit cranky today.
P-edit: And do you have actual statistics there, or are you making numbers up?

[Me=Weird]

Chuji, think. Is it really a town-tell to delay revealing your result? How could that possibly be used as a point to defend yourself? It means nothing alignment-wise.
Also, has no one seen my point about chuji being scum because of the only ways for no kill? Can anyone go back and imagine a scum team that would have to consist of tog, forest, or(checks first post) sabliminal trying to kill him? Also relevant is can you say that he had towny interactions with any of them?
mal, I'm about ready to say that tog may well be town and you partner. Although it must be said that he hasn't been too talkative either.

I'm about ready to lay down a chuji vote. Is there anyone who wouldn't be willing?

[Me=Weird]

Okay, I definitely think chuji is the common factor as scum, so I want him lynched, but I'm not sure if we're no lynching or what. Also, what exactly is the current role plan? I'm sorry, I just don't feel that good right now.

[Me=Weird]

I'm tan. Next is togtof.

Do I need to explain what PoE is?

Are you seriously suggesting that llama and chuji are scum together? Furthermore you have given no reasoning.
Where is togtof? Notice how he's gone with the pressure on him.

[Me=Weird]

Pardon?

@M=W- What pressure? No idea where you are getting your accusations from but I have been here. Now no lynch please.

I meant that you'd gone as the pressure on you left, not you'd gone as pressure on you came.

1- is there anything in your opinion that suggests that mal-llama is not the remaining scum team?
2- what is your opinion about a mal lynch?
3- if you agree, are you agreeing to my night plan?
4- would the worst case scenario of either mal or llama being lynched and flipping town change your reads dramatically and make the current night plan unfeasible for you?

1- Other than a semi-town read on llama, and suspicions of chuji, not really.
2- I could actually get behind this.
3- Not necessarily, I had an idea actually. More on this later.
4- Yes. As above, more later.

@M=W, explain why you didn't give entire role info about cement and concrete all at once? This extra info, why could it not gaurantee 2 role blockers day 2? Refresh my memory on which of cement and concrete you had night 1?

A weak excuse I know, but after a saw it and sent in my action, it slipped my mind, probably because it didn't seem important at the time because there was no way to do that at the time. Because nothing in there suggested multiple roleblocker's. It even used the same word, concrete. Which I had(not cement).

Tog: Why do you want a no-lynch?
Mal: That doesn't actually clear anything up. Try again.

So, I could get behind a mal lynch, but if he's town, tog is essentially confirmed scum unless anyone thinks it is Chuji-llama. If he's scum, it doesn't matter as much cause town couldn't auto lose. In this case I'd suggest block chuji and llama, if the first tog and either one, preferably chuji. My original plan earlier today was to lynch one of CK-llama, block two of the other one, mal, and tog, and have the other take(because I'd forgotten it had already been taken) limo, and

not

have it stolen, so the likely hood of them killing instead was lower. Obviously this can't work unless we lynch chuji.
Basically, I suggest that me and tog take rb's, if we lynch mal-town, I role-block tog, and shadow dancer limo's one of the other's for the possibility of killing themselves. If he's scum, I suggest me and tog rb llama and chuji. SD limos himself and tog. If we decide to lynch anybody else I'll have to think some more.

[Me=Weird]

Chuji: I do not agree with SD's assessment of llama's play. He has created plans that could very possibly screw over scum. While it's true that he's done little individual scum-hunting, he has been helpful through the connections, which are actually important right now, and PoE which despite what chuji seems to think is useful.
In between saying tog was town and calling him scum, there were some…questionable night actions.
I have kind of a problem with 1376 because not only are you ignoring even the possibility of llama-town, if he is town, scum would win. I don't really see town taking that chance, especially with "concrete/cement kill doesn't matter".
WTF at you picking concrete? If you're scum, you can now completely screw over town with that. If you are town then, frankly, I don't trust your judgement with the game.
1402 seems to say that you only picked concrete in the hope of not being lynched because it would eliminate an RB. I am only willing to lynch someone else if I get cement. I've pretty much seen enough, and think it's a chuji-mal team.

Mod: I'm requesting that you reconsider the deadline extension as you said you wanted a majority but agreed with just half. If you do reconsider, Vote: No extension.
Vote: Chuji
You have llama and chuji as being able to pick in above votecount, but they've both picked already.

[Me=Weird]

Short V/LA til Tuesday or so.

[Me=Weird]

Bit busy, so just a quick post right now.
mal's question about tog maybe dying by role block is idiotic as he wasn't targeted by it before and the flavor says he was carrying a bucket. Possibly an attempt to say that scum didn't kill, to divert attention to whoever CK blocked? Depending of course on whether ck actually is scum.
llama: If I get the rb, nobody needs to jackhammer me as there's only one rb left so I wouldn't be in danger.
I say we lynch mal as he's the only one we could all possibly agree on.
Chuji, please claim your target. No reason not to.
Suggested action plan(subject to change):
llama-Jackhammer
mal-Limo
me-Concrete Mixer
CK-Pier
SD-Bomb

I think whoever we lynch should pick limo as SD's getting bomb. Limo could be too dangerous in scum hands and the only one everyone thinks is town is SD.

[Me=Weird]

Sorry, busy couple of days.
While I don't know quite what to think about llama or CK, mal pretty much has to be scum unless it's me-llama and we blocked and killed the same person night one, and I just want to say I wouldn't have done it either. Essentially, most people have me as a second town, which means they think mal is scum.
Furthermore, mal lynch is quite informative as then either me or shadow will die, if it's me scum's probably CK. If shadow, probably llama. I ask you to very deeply consider this should the former happen, shadow. Furthermore, one of CK/llama will be blocked, which would nearly prove who's scum, either by no kill or kill from the other. As such I don't think limo should be used tonight.
I'm pretty confident in this, so

Vote: malpasc

From my PoV, the only way this won't work is if shadow is scum, in which case he very much deserves it.

[Me=Weird]

Are you kidding me? Where did I say I agree with with me/llama or you/mal? I pretty much just said that from my PoV, mal just about has to be scum unless it's you and llama(lol) or shadow. Did you even see how I said I'm not sure at all now about whether it's you or llama.
SD, I couldn't care less right now, but I will unvote just because I forgot llama did too.

unvote

[Me=Weird]

Is this the part where I gloat because I was right and everyone else was either wrong or scum?