TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[PeregrineV]

/confirm

[PeregrineV]

You know that guy you see going into the convenience store when you stop off at that little town on the way to grandma's house? A sort of shifty looking fella who buys a pack of smokes, a couple of lotto scratchers and a tall boy at ten in the morning? The kind of guy you wait for to come out before you and your family go in? Well, that guy is me. My name is Earl. And if you took the time to really get to know me, find out what kind of person I truly am instead of just stereotyping me because of the way I look, well, you'd be wasting your time, because I'm exactly who you think I am. Hell, I'll pretty much steal anything that isn't nailed down.

You can't be him because My Name Is....

Wait a minute. I see what you did there.

Vote: Zinger

!

[PeregrineV]

You can't be him because My Name Is....

Wait a minute. I see what you did there.

Vote: Zinger

!

Ok, so no comment on ANYTHING else going on in the game?

Actually, you're doing a slamdunk job ATM. Vifam might be scum, but the response sounds like it would be from town also. But, that's probably because I'm soft-hearted.

Jily got Snarky, which is the first time in 5 games or so. So either she's growing some

cojones

through experience, or she's more confident because she has "team" to back her up.

Bad vibes from DavidX, because while it's OK to follow up a joke vote with a joke question, you throw in real questions to. Not continue the joke past that unless it's netted you some other information.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.
Vote:chkballin

I'm suspicious of DavidX also, so you can buy my vote with your promised wall about his scumminess.

[PeregrineV]

@Pinky & the Brain- Yes.

Actually, you're doing a slamdunk job ATM. Vifam might be scum, but the response sounds like it would be from town also. But, that's probably because I'm soft-hearted.

1. Just because I am active and doing a ‘slamdunk’ job doesn’t mean you should be happy to just let me do all the work.
2. Fence-sitting on Vifam noted.

1. You're not, we're all here. But still doing a great job.
2. Sure, if you mean the "is-he-scum?" or "isn't-he-scum?" fence.

@Peregrine

– Please clarify … were you intending to counter-claim Zinger’s Earl name-claim? I didn’t think so when I read it but Zinger indicated he thinks you might be.

No, not in any way. I just like how the name of the show is in itself a statement/nameclaim.

Thoughts on DavidX? And on Leonshade's last post?

[PeregrineV]

@Pappums- You caught me, this is only my third day in a row posting (oops, it's Saturday now so I guess I skipped Friday ).

My vote is on chkballin for fake promising reads, but not liking the posts of DavidX. I think MoI is town, but probably because I like the posting style.

Leaning town on Killer, want Marco to throw out some reads while waiting.

[PeregrineV]

@Zinger- Than the more important question is "Do you win with town?". Otherwise, you know that it won't end well for you.

@Chkballin- Yes, thank you. Now I can go back to

Unvote.
Vote: DavidX

@Meren- but you are here every page to tell us why you're not going to post. Why not thoughts/reactions on the posts up until yours?

[PeregrineV]

Here is a sample from another mafai game of a self-aligned who sounds something like Zinger.

Sam Warren "the Loner", Self-Aligned Seeker

Item: A worn out picture of a gold miner.

Living on the outskirts of Dreven is difficult, especially with the desert so close, but you make do with what little you have, which amounts to no more than a one room shack, outhouse, and well. You’ve been on your own since your daddy left to hunt gold in the northern mountains when you turned nine. One day while going through the junk your daddy left behind, you found a scrape piece of parchment detailing the birth of a boy in Dreven City. This boy couldn’t be you, because the wild witch woman, Ilana, helped your mother deliver you before see died of pregnancy. It appears you have kin living in Dreven, an older brother, and you mean to find him during your next three-day excursion in the city.

You have three days to find your brother, and each night you may visit a person’s house to see if they are your brother. Each night you visit the wrong person you will receive a clue to your brother’s identity. If by the end of the third night you fail to find him, you will leave Dreven forever. The gold rush fever has gotten in your blood, and like your father, you will leave to seek your fortune.

If you find your brother you will become a

member of Dreven City

. Until you find him, you are Self-Aligned and can only win by living during your visit to Dreven.

Mod Notes:

If the brother is killed before Sam finds him, Sam blames the town and becomes

Lawson Gang Goon

.

If the brother is found they form a Mason Group with a One-Shot Night Kill
If three days pass and Sam doesn’t find his brother he leaves the game with a Self-Aligned Win

[PeregrineV]

Boss finally left town, but I'm going home. Will catch up tonight.

[PeregrineV]

@Meran- I think you asked me why I voted DavidX. Probably the same reason you did. Iso up to 20 looks too noncommittal, esp. for day1. Also, good chkballin summary. It's gotten better with 23+, so I'll probably unvote when better comes along.

@Junepei- I'm glad for the pickup in activity, but Zingers got 14 of 16 votes now. Continuing in the same vein post after post if not scummy is really unproductive. It also leads me to the questions: Do you think Zinger is scum? If so, who are his partners? If not, why are you trying to lynch him?

In general, I see the arguements against Izak, but am going to trust Meran in this that this is how he plays (for now).

Agree with Pine=bad, but think he'd care more if he were scum. So I'd rather wait for replacement.

Can't believe that all 4 lurkers are town, but everyone seems to have their reads out pretty early. maybe I'll just go cross-index them. Won't that be fun...

[PeregrineV]

@Junpei- You are correct, 12 of 14 as of last VC. Either way, I'm not for lynching claimed town PRs day1. If they live, they have to explain themselves each and every day. And every time they flip town, we can trust the results, and if they flip scum, we can probably backtrack to see who they're protecting.

@Nero- Is he getting heat for his Pine vote? I actually saw more people voting Pine.

[PeregrineV]

@MoI- Just so you know, your claim of having been neighborized twice can also be read to say "I can talk to 2 other people outside the thread." And that you were selected by 2 independent processes that have a single convergence point of you. Any ideas why that might be, because I find it frankly astonishing.

Also, what do you think the chances are that both are town?

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV has been prodded (1)

Sorry guys still here. And still not going to vote for one of the three PR claims today. But also need to catch-up since the last post.

[PeregrineV]

Hoppster and TheFonz are currently not in the game as individuals, but as hydra parts (I think). Can you guys go back and quote the posts you made (as individuals) under the hydra accounts, so that ISOs are more correct?
Thanks.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.
VotE: 3isFrench

At least DavidX appears to be trying more.

Silver will either be investigated or killed at this point, so it's probably a wasted lynch. Aside from the Pine fascination, looks to be town.

Zinger I think is town-3rd party-mafia in that likelihood order.

[PeregrineV]

@Nero- Well, I've been suspecting 3isF for about 25 pages now, but I was put off by the fact DavidX suspected him, and I liked DavidX's posting even less.

DavidX has since made better posts, but a look at 3isF indicates the same is not true for him.

I don't care if he is a "major wagon" for today. Why would I vote to lynch Zinger or Silver based on my opinions I've already given? I guess if they have or do change I would, but so far they haven't.

Instead, why don't you join me in voting 3isF? Together, we can make his lynch happen!!

@Killer- This makes me sad.

Hi I'm killerjester with strep throat. My life's been pretty full with ... not making out with pretty girls.

[PeregrineV]

Instead, why don't you join me in voting 3isF? Together, we can make his lynch happen!!

hip, I think he is talking about us.

NA1

Are you
24) ThreeIsFrench

from the OP???

[PeregrineV]

Instead, why don't you join me in voting 3isF? Together, we can make his lynch happen!!

hip, I think he is talking about us.

NA1

Are you
24) ThreeIsFrench

from the OP???

I am nintendoaddict1, in a hydra with hiplop.

hiplop and another person were ThreeisFrench.

The other person had to /out.

Myself and hiplop are this hydra.

idk what OP is...

NA1

OP=Opening post

OK, so 3isFrench replaced by hipaddict1 (both hydras, and with one player continuing on the replacing hydra).

Got it.

[PeregrineV]

Back from my V/LA.

So why the fuck is Zinger still almost dead?

Half the scum are on the Zinger wagon, one or two on silver, and one elsewhere.

[PeregrineV]

@Jun- That is a really crappy answer. I don't like it.

Let's see what Vezok says.

And didn't someone else claim something? They need to give their results too.

Awaiting MoI's neighbor dilemma.

[PeregrineV]

No, that's not me discrediting you. That will be up to Vezok, depending on what he says.
This is me stating my opinion.

[PeregrineV]

No, that's not me discrediting you. That will be up to Vezok, depending on what he says.
This is me stating my opinion.

So you are saying that your opinion as no more substance than "eh, I dont like it".

Yes, I am giving my opinion. I find your explanation about choosing Vezok to be very suspect. For example, out of all the players and 50+ pages of posts, something made you go "Hmmmmm, this tickles my fancy. I'll watch him tonight."
Just wondering what it was.

[PeregrineV]

He is right. I went nowhere.

But I don't understand why you tracked me?

@people who are confused at the fact that I chose Vezok, I'm fine with answering any questions regarding it.

I have only 1 question. Have you played with vezok before?

No sir, I had no meta behind my reasoning for choosing Vezok anyway.

@Thad & Jun-
Even the target is confused as to why he was chosen, which shows why their is general confusion.

However, the Meransiel Q&A clears up a lot more. I would have thought a tracking of the vig claim would be more logical, but it was your choice in the end.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine has never taken a very strong stance this game, and avoided the entire debate yesterday, despite apparent belief that both of the top wagons were on town. I cannot see town aligned pony making that move.

So, you can't see why a town-aligned pony would not vote either of the top 2 vote-getters when that pony believed them both to be town?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine has never taken a very strong stance this game, and avoided the entire debate yesterday, despite apparent belief that both of the top wagons were on town. I cannot see town aligned pony making that move.

So, you can't see why a town-aligned pony would not vote either of the top 2 vote-getters when that pony believed them both to be town?

Not when you take all factors into account. First it was a JK claim from the leading wagon, which you seemed to think was more likely town of the few, and you didn't take the counterwagon. Second is that you did NOTHING to stop either of the wagons, but just sat back and put your vote on somepony one else taking the whole Fluttershy stance to the disagreement. You know what town normally does when they see two town reads fighting? The STOP THE FIGHT by trying to prove why both people are town to everypony else, or at least prove why their pick is more likely scum. You did neither, but just sat back the entire time.

Were you like MoI and KJ in thinking that the posts from silver were VT softclaims?

I disagree. I can think all day both are town, but I don't know.
I know Zinger's meta, and believed his 3rd party claim, and even posted a similar possible 3rd party role form another game.
But, in the end, I don't KNOW, which is a strong factor is trying to stop 20 people from lynching the top two wagons.
I did state my opinion for everyone to read, and Silver put forth more effort to live than Zinger (or his actions were less forgivable), so he was lynched. That's part of the game and the way it's played.

I don't recall Silver softclaims, but he's claimed VT today.

[PeregrineV]

@andrew- since you've been outed, please provide your thoughts, reasonings, etc. behind choosing MoI as your day1 neighbor.

We you aware he was also neighborized by another player the same day?

@Bravo- maybe you're thinking of hider?

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine - You can guess who I want thoughts on. Also respond to the rest of my inital case if you can.

This is a Large, so the type of non-commital character Peregrine has is rather understandable.

For my response, I'll make it easy and quote Meransiel, since that sums it up very efficiently. ( will go back and look over Oversoul again)

@silver- so know you've done claiming, who are your top three scum suspects, and who are your three "town" reads? A why would be great, and links to back up facts (as differentiated from opinion).

@Jun, Rodion, DavidX- While I enjoy a discussion of mafia theory as much as the next person, taking up pages with it strongly discourages re-reads in later days.
And, who are your top three scum suspects, and who are your three "town" reads? A why would be great, and links to back up facts (as differentiated from opinion).

@Andrew- I'm not understanding your posts as fully as I like. Please spell out words and use small ones to help me understand it better. And confused about why you would not give your reasons for choosing MoI. The cat is already out of the bag, so to speak, so the evasion is suspicious. So, to ask directly since you've already mentioned that you

would

recruit scum, did you recruit MoI thinking he was scum?
What are your thoughts on him now?

@Castle- I like your presented case on Rodion, but not getting the scum vibe from the posts. If you still feel he is scum, who would you most likely think are his scumbuddies?

Vote:Izak

Someone keeps mentioning "that's the way he plays", but have you done an ISO on him?

@Izak- Since you're currently voting Andrew- what do you think of his recent posts and reasoning?

[PeregrineV]

Top 3 would be in order:

Andrew
Silver
Zel1nK

I don't want to have to write up reasons why on all of them when I've articulated each of them already.

Yes i see the reasons for the other sixteen thousand scummy people, but there are too many lynch targets that look like scum. Note that I'm voting silver because Andrew if scum is very likely neighborizer, which isn't nearly as dangerous as whatever silver might be.

You see, I'm ok that they are your scumpicks, but then I ask the question, you think Andrew is scum neighborizor with Silver who is also a scum power role with Zel1nk who is also scum?

Yeah, I'll have to go back and look for your arguments, because I don't seem to remember you putting for any good reasons for any of them. But hey, that's why this is a forum game!

[PeregrineV]

And again Peregrine dodges the demands to give his reads on people, and tries to demand reads from others.

That's anti-town if not outright scummy.

UNVOTE: Andrew
VOTE: Peregrine

Reads. You've been dodging this and fence sitting for far too long. You have no right to demand of others what you yourself have provided sweet F.A of.

Reads: DavidX: null

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine

Top 3 town reads:

Rodion
Zinger
Vollkan

Top 3 scum reads (I will not elaborate because all those reads are direct consequences of my discussions and were already explained - if you really want me to elaborate, let me know):

Meransiel
Castle Bravo
Junpei/Andrew (pending results of Andrew's answers)

Top 3 town reads (serious version - wonder how many people I managed to irritate with my former one ):

Chkballin
Pinky and the Brain
Pappums Leather Jacket

Ballin and Pinky are there for pretty much the same reasn. They made respectable efforts in fact checking and managed to catch people lying. While lying is not a failproof way of finding scum (check Zinger's fakeclaim), their willingness to go the extra mile is commendable. Ballin did that on the 3isF/Hipaddict "double Vifam vote" case and Pinky did that on the "Meran says there is no scum JK" case. Other than that, I don't see any scumtells coming from either.
As for Pappums, it's not technically a town read as much as a way of saying that for now I will not let him be lynched without anything short of a smoking gun kind of evidence. I'm getting the feeling that a good ammount of the players here are willing to follow MoI with few/no questions asked and that is anti-town even if MoI is in fact town aligned. Without Pappums here it can all derail pretty fast, as at times he seems to be the one player willing to question MoI instead of sheeping.

I would like an elaboration, please, since I have a town read on Meransiel, and Captain Bravo (and you might be biased since he's voting you and tunneling you hard, so can you add a read #4?), and was wondering if you do not believe Junp's claim, or do you think he is a scum tracker?

Understood on town reads. Thanks!

[PeregrineV]

I never said they were a scum team Peregrine, they are just the scummiest people in the game in my opinion. I can't form a scum team based on connection logic at this point.

Also how about giving a real set of reads like David and I did back in day 1?

I've actually decided to do so through a conversational method with the rest of the town as they share their thoughts. This will not only encourage interaction between myself and others, but will increase my interest in the game. And, when we're done, I will post a fantabulous

scummary

of who is scum and why!

Also, I think the scum are on a team, so the "scummy people" thing weakens your case against them, at least to me.

[PeregrineV]

Unvote.
Vote: Oversoul

Someone suggested an ISO on him, so I did.

[PeregrineV]

I'll be out of town and posting/reading will be null/minimal during this time.

V/LA Friday Aug 12 to Mon Aug 15

[PeregrineV]

Pre Game- Rainbow Dash(Cop)
D1- MoI(Cop)
D2- Andrew(Cop)
N2- Pappums(Made Guard)
D3- ZeLinK(Cop)

Also mafia had to have hit me.
Each night I can choose a person to guard me, so if I am NK'd they are NK'd, but the trick is if I choose to use that ability during the night and no one tries to kill me I get majorly fucked. If I use it and I'm not targeted then not only can I not use an ability for the next two days, but I can also never use that ability again.

You're claiming an insanely powerful role. Like... INSANELY powerful. I can't emphasise enough how powerful that role actually is, if you're town and telling the truth.

I'd like to hear why this role is INSANELY powerful. He gets a one-shot kill-redirect at the expense of another player, but punished if he's not the target, and another try if he is. Even combining with role-cop the power overall seems...elaborate but not powerful.

[PeregrineV]

@Nero- I 'm guessing one town. Colors are for roles Green=vanilla townies, blue=power roles

@Rainbow-So you think DMSIS might be telling the truth, so you want to lynch him to confirm you? lol...whatever happened to scumhunting instead of townlynching?
Conversely, Andrew was confirmed scum from DMSIS Iso 31-34, so why lynch him again?
Also, Oversoul did claim, and was the one re-directed.
You may be town, but you've just suffered a big-time credibility loss in my eyes.

@Everyone else- Wouldn't Vengeful Townie kill their killer? Would they still do so if their killer was bulletproof?

[PeregrineV]

Ok time for my gambit to end. I am a town night role cop. That is it. I gambitted with the other roles so that I could stay alive longer and pump out more results. I felt I needed to stay alive since I recieved both alingment and role. I feel I did a good job since I`ve confirmed a few townies and have now caught a second scum. PerigrineV is a Holy SK. I`m assuming that he is the reason we have the second night kill lately. Maybe he wasnt shooting earlier because he didnt want us to hunt for 3rd party are maybe the Holy part of his role has something more to do with his role then just the flavour. Any way I feel he is the lynch for today since more than likely there are more than one mafia members left. So by lynching him we will have one less kill each night. That being said.

Vote PerigrineV

lol...no.

I'm not a Holy SK, or anything cool like that.

So either 1) you were redirected
2) You're full of it, and tired of keeping track of your own lies, so decided to self-destruct.

Vote: Shotty

And since your "gambit is over", you may want to provide your real targets so we can stop making the wrong assumptions and drawing the wrong conclusions.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, fullclaim NOW

Ok, I am not a SK, holy or unholy.

Would you like me to claim a power role with these three people voting me?

DrShotty, CastleBravo, Izak

Not going to happen.

[PeregrineV]

Fine.

Scumdar™ time!

Castle Bravo - 9/10

PeregrineV - 8/10

drmyshottyizsik - 8/10

silverbullet999 - 7/10

Meransiel - 6/10

David Xanatos - 6/10

vezokpiraka - 5/10

Banshee - 5/10

Nero Cain - 5/10

ThAdmiral - 5/10

ZeL1nK - 4/10

TheJakalope - 4/10

Rainbowdash - 4/10

MagnaofIllusion - 2/10

FourseenCircumstance - 2/10

Mysterio - 2/10

Castle Bravo - 9/10

-claimed mafia goon

PeregrineV - 8/10

- "scum" as per 3rd scumread

drmyshottyizsik - 8/10

- voting me along with you and your top scumread

Do you see any problems with your list? It's starting to look somewhat arbitrary when it doesn't follow the rules of logic.

@David- I played D&D so everything was either Holy or Unholy (Avenger, water, light)

[PeregrineV]

Yeah I read your post and I am still not convinced. I am all for killing Castle Bravo with extreme vengeance and prejudice...

You need to vote for me to do that.

Role claim:

mafia goon

Why aren't you and MoI voting? I'm a scumread it's stupid for me to be vengeful.

Vote, vote little ball.

Hmm. You "claimed" and lived.

Here you go

Role claim:

holy serial killer

So, if I live, you're just an idiot.
Hell, even if I die, I still believe the above.

[PeregrineV]

Well, at least with this few players and three flips, I can do a decent VCA.

[PeregrineV]

Heading to a work meeting now, but I did see your posts Banshee, and will address them today (real day). And anything else that came up.

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine: Why did you claim Holy SK yesterday? I have a theory but I want an answer from you directly. Also, are you serious about doing a VCA?

To show that Castle Bravo claiming Mafia Goon didn't make him Mafia Goon. And to show that Shotty was full of it.

And yes, I've already started on it. I did one in Cold War Mafia that snagged me scum, but no one believed it. Of course, we had a town vig so he nailed him that night, but we also had two scum teams to deal with. I'm hoping this one will be easier overall (one team only I hope), but the replacements is kind of a pain to calculate.

[PeregrineV]

I thought that Peregrine was trying to taunt Castle Bravo into vengekilling him rather than Rainbowdash. I didn't want to announce that before Peregrine could explain because I didn't want to give him a ready-made explanation.

I would like to wait for Peregrine to do the promised VCA. I'm not sure how much stock I put in them personally but I think anything that gives us more information is good and maybe others can see things in them that I would miss.

That would have been OK too, assuming he was actually town and Vengeful (which he was). But I'm still not sure why he went all crazy and such.

Will do VCA Tuesday when I'm back at work.

And I haven't fully caught up, but I'm not a SK, and I don't think there is one, since there has been only 2 "religious" kills out of 6 nights.

[PeregrineV]

We have 20 days to lynch. Can we use them this time?

[PeregrineV]

EBWOP:

And I forgot:

@Peregrine

: Are you still working on a VCA?

Not until today. Wasn't going to work on it if I woke up dead (so to speak).

[PeregrineV]

I vote me to claim first. Me claiming first is hammered!

And since TV should be fun to watch

1) I'm a CIA agent.
2) I'm a graduate student in English.
3) I'm a double agent.
4) The actress who plays me is super hot and recently pregnant.

Any guessers?

[PeregrineV]

You're Sydney Bristow of Alias?

Roleclaim?

DING DING DING!!



Yes!!

Sydney Bristow, vanilla town

[PeregrineV]

Meransiel next.

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine

: Any progress on the VCA?

I'm on 1.6, but the system is good and will go pretty fast. I plan to finish late today or tomorrow.

[PeregrineV]

No reason not to wait for it.

On day4 now.

[PeregrineV]

Lol...the data is in. Now I add the alignments.

So, now I'm curious. What is the hurry?

And I have stated I didn't work on it over the night phase. It would piss me off too much to do all the work and then end up dead the next morning. So I waited. Ding, I was alive, I go back to work on it. It's not that confusing.

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine:

The pace of the game largely determines the players' levels of interest in it. Fast-paced, exciting games hold the interest far better than slow-moving, inactive games. Lack of interest in a game usually translates into a scum win in my experience.

Do you disagree?

Actually I do. Speedlynches always benefit scum. I haven't done it, but look at completed games with the winner in the title, and the number of pages. I'm guessing smaller number of pages, more likelihood of a scum win.

VC's done. But now I'd like to hear from everyone about how many scum do they think are left.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, just post your bloody VCA. No-one gives a flying monkey fuck any more. There's no way of knowing how many scum there are, and it isn't relevant to your VCA, since it's already done. You are either trying to stall us for as long as possible, or hoping to adapt your VCA after you get opinions on the remaining scum. Possibly both. Whatever it is, it's VERY scummy.

SO JUST POST IT.

LOL..ok


Day1 Day1 Day1-244 Day1-297 Day1-373 Day1-421 Day1-527 Day1-651 Day1-731 Day1-857 Day1-913 Day1-942 Day1-999 Day1-1056 Day1-1214 Day1-1308 Day1-1350 Day1-1393 Day1-1465 Day2- 1542 Day2- 1563 Day2- 1582 Day2- 1686 Day2- 1821 Day2- 1906 Day2- 1942 Day2- 1984 Day2- 2089 Day3-2248 Day3-2270 Day3-2631 Day3-2394 Day4-2453 Day4-2480 Day4-2507 Day5-2665 Day5-2697 Day5-2775 Day7-2816 Day7-2843 Day7-2866 Day7-2889 Day7-2945 Day7-2970 Day8-3034 Day8-3094
List Name Team 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 1.9 1.10 1.11 1.12 1.13 1.14 1.15 1.16 1.17 1.18 1.19 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 4.1 4.2 4.3 5.1 5.2 6.1 7.1 7.2 7.3 7.4 7.5 7.6 8.1 8.2
16) andrew94 andrew94 Mafia Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Mysterio chkballin chkballin chkballin chkballin chkballin chkballin chkballin chkballin Silver Silver Silver Silver
8) Banshee Banshee Junpei Junpei Junpei Junpei Junpei Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 Fourseen Fourseen Fourseen Castle Bravo Castle Bravo drmyshottyizsik Silver Silver Silver Silver Fourseen Fourseen Silver
18) Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Town Rodion Rodion Rodion Rodion Rodion Rodion Rodion Rodion andrew94 chkballin Oversoul Oversoul Oversoul Rodion Rodion Rodion PeregrineV PeregrineV
7) chkballin chkballin Town Vezo DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver andrew94 Oversoul Oversoul Oversoul Oversoul
11) David Xanatos David Xanatos Fourseen Fourseen Junpei Junpei Junpei Junpei Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 andrew94 andrew94 PeregrineV PeregrineV andrew94 Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo PeregrineV PeregrineV PeregrineV Fourseen Fourseen PeregrineV PeregrineV
12) drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik Mafia Zinger2099 Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver andrew94 Oversoul Oversoul Silver
24) Fourseen Fourseen Town drmyshottyizsik Junpei Junpei Junpei Junpei Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Oversoul Fourseen Oversoul Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Silver Fourseen Fourseen
17) izakthegoomba izakthegoomba Junpei Junpei Meransiel Meransiel Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo drmyshottyizsik Silver Silver Fourseen Fourseen Fourseen Fourseen Silver
21) Junpei Junpei Town Rodion volkan volkan volkan Fourseen Meransiel Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 andrew94 Silver Silver Silver Silver andrew94 Castle Bravo Fourseen Fourseen
25) killerjester  killerjester  Town Vezo Mysterio Mysterio Mysterio Mysterio izakthegoomba Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 Oversoul Oversoul Castle Bravo Oversoul Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo
3) MagnaofIllusion MagnaofIllusion Town Rodion Junpei DavidX DavidX DavidX Silver izakthegoomba Silver DavidX DavidX DavidX Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Pappums Leather Jacket Pappums Leather Jacket Pappums Leather Jacket Pappums Leather Jacket Pappums Leather Jacket Pappums Leather Jacket Pappums Leather Jacket Silver Silver Silver drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo drmyshottyizsik
1) Meransiel  Meransiel  Junpei DavidX Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver drmyshottyizsik Silver Silver Silver andrew94 Oversoul Oversoul drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik Fourseen
23) Mysterio Mysterio Rodion volkan volkan Junpei Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Oversoul Oversoul Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo drmyshottyizsik
10) Nero Cain Nero Cain volkan Junpei Junpei Junpei TheJakalope TheJakalope Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver andrew94 drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik Oversoul Oversoul Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo drmyshottyizsik Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver
26) Oversoul Oversoul Mafia Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik
5) Pappums Leather Jacket Pappums Leather Jacket Town TheJakalope TheJakalope TheJakalope TheJakalope TheJakalope TheJakalope Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 TheJakalope TheJakalope TheJakalope TheJakalope TheJakalope izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba
4) PeregrineV PeregrineV Town chkballin chkballin chkballin chkballin DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX Fourseen Fourseen Fourseen Fourseen Fourseen Oversoul Oversoul Oversoul Oversoul drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik
14) Pinky and the Brain Pinky and the Brain Town volkan Junpei Mysterio Mysterio izakthegoomba Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Silver Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Silver Silver izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba Oversoul Oversoul Oversoul
9) Rainbow Rainbow Town Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 PeregrineV PeregrineV PeregrineV PeregrineV Oversoul andrew94 izakthegoomba andrew94 andrew94 Oversoul Oversoul Oversoul Oversoul Meransiel  Meransiel  Meransiel  drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik
22) Rodion Rodion Town DavidX Junpei Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 DavidX Meransiel  Meransiel  Meransiel  Meransiel  Meransiel  Meransiel  andrew94 andrew94 Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo
27) silverbullet999 silverbullet999 Andrew Andrew Andrew Junpei Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain Nero Cain izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba Fourseen Fourseen Fourseen Fourseen Fourseen
20) ThAdmiral ThAdmiral Town Andrew Andrew Junpei Junpei DavidX DavidX DavidX Junpei Junpei DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX DavidX Silver Silver Silver andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 andrew94 Oversoul Oversoul Oversoul Oversoul Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo
19) TheJakalope TheJakalope ThAdmiral ThAdmiral ThAdmiral ThAdmiral ThAdmiral Meransiel Meransiel Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 andrew94 andrew94 Oversoul Oversoul Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo drmyshottyizsik PeregrineV PeregrineV Fourseen PeregrineV Fourseen Fourseen
2) vezokpiraka vezokpiraka Junpei Junpei Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 ZeL1nK Rodion Rodion Rodion Rodion Rodion Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo Castle Bravo drmyshottyizsik PeregrineV PeregrineV Silver Silver Silver
13) volkan volkan Town Mysterio Mysterio Mysterio Mysterio Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099 Zinger2099
15) ZeL1nK ZeL1nK Town Vezo Junpei Junpei Zinger2099 Zinger2099 izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba andrew94 drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik drmyshottyizsik Mysterio Mysterio Mysterio
6) Zinger20992099 Zinger2099 Town PeregrineV PeregrineV Meransiel Junpei Junpei izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba izakthegoomba Silver Silver Silver Silver Silver

pedit: If we gonna play herp-derp town, I beg the mafia to kill me tonight.

Hmm..it's in Excel, so are file postings possible?

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: silverbullet999

I guess we wait for Pere's VCA?

I'm pretty confident in this vote:

VOTE: silverbullet999

no. You are far away from an excellent player.

Why does it matter what scum role you are? This is like a "If you can't guess my scumbuddies you can't lynch me" type defense.

vote:SB

Also not sure why we're waiting on Pere's VCA.

VOTE: Silver

Yeah. That crossed the line.

VOTE: Silver

You wanna hammer Meran?

@Silver:What alignment are you and I can add it to the VC before I re-post.

[PeregrineV]

Also take a screenshot of it, host it on photobucket and paste as image is an alternative

Yeah, I guess I'll do that.

[PeregrineV]

K

[PeregrineV]

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B_Zl8M ... h&hl=en_US

It's currently posted as a read only google doc.

Since the general patience level ITT is less than my ten-year old, it's data only. It takes time to do more analysis, and no one wants to wait.

Any complaints? Don't use it.

[PeregrineV]

Enough with the lunatics running the asylum. Last time I saw someone this lynch-happy it was the investigated godfather.

Start making real cases or get lynched.

[PeregrineV]

I'm saying after the fantabulous Silver lynch were he was town, and now we have 8 left alive and an unknown number of mafia, that unsubtantiated cases that are quick and crappy are very much in the mafia's interest.

pedit- @Izak- I'm not going to make you prove it to me yet, but you do have to provide real solid reasons for voting people if you are town and want to win.

[PeregrineV]

Because I don't know yet. I would have said Mysterio, but I guess he was lurking scum, just lurking town.

I have to re-read and look back over things. Don't you do that when you get new information in a game?

[PeregrineV]

How exactly is the Meran vote "unsubstantiated"?

He left a bigger skid mark than Wile E. Coyote when Silver put a spotlight on him. There's no reason for Town to react like that in the slightest.

OK, why would scum do it?

[PeregrineV]

A quick read of his ISO shows that after the Sotty lynch all he's done is stall and argue aginst lynches and NOT taken a single stance against anyone. This very much reeks of scum sitting back.

He's our lynch today.

In contrast, Izak has taken only stances of people and done little else. You regarding that as much better?

Yes. TownIzak taking a stance and scumhunting looks 100x better thn scumPere stalling and NOT scumhunting.

Show me where Izak is scumhunting. Show me his posts where your name can't be substituted for mine.

With 2-3 scum left (27 players, 6 scum is not high), one or two misvotes and it's over. So, if you are town, you will understand my reluctance to vote.

Will read and respond in details to other stuff later.

[PeregrineV]

Because we've had two Vengefuls, and Silver's record for martyrdom would make me think twice about bomb possibilities. Also, at this late stage, fears of Silver being taken seriously could factor into it.

So you're thinking Meran is thinking a third vengeful and backed off? And what "record for martyrdom"? Silver has only died once this game, and none before now.
Why would we not take Silver seriously? He sounded sincere enough, and we have time.

And according to scum votes, Andrew voted Silver 36% of the time, Shotty voted Silver 24% of the time, and Oversoul voted Silver 41% of the time. He was either THE top vote of scum, or they weren't voting.

[PeregrineV]

I was sure Silver was scum based on the things around Shotty and his overall play, so I'm sort of stuck right now.

From the opposite perspective, here are the things I think I know:

• Izak is town. I'm almost sure of this.
  Vezok is town based on his post right after Magna got killed. I don't think that was deliberate.
  David seems really town to me too.

That's four town (including me) that I am not voting for today and that I am sure aren't scum. I think there is probably a cult-flavoured vig on the scum side, though. That would come up non-goon and would explain the extra kills. I don't understand why we haven't seen any lately though.

My main suspicions are between Peregrine as this vig (Shotty trying to be clever?) and Meransiel because I am afraid I'm suffering from confirmation bias because I was so sure Meransiel wasn't scum based on behaviour at the start of the game. More or less null reads on Nero Cain and TheJakalope, though I agreed with Nero's logic a lot around the Silver issue which makes him seem townier to me.

Meh, I want Meransiel to explain why he backed off so hard from Silver. I don't want to vote him without better reasons than I see right now.

Peregrine is my top suspicion. I haven't liked the minimal posting style, the delays on promised material and the general attitude. Town should WANT to help town win, not act like they're doing us a big favour by offering content. I don't really know how to do a VCA or I'd do one for myself.

Actually, that just pinpointed what was bothering me. Peregrine isn't doing a VCA for himself to try to figure things out, he's doing one as a big favour for us. Why? I would be doing it for myself and THEN sharing it with others to try to figure things out; Peregrine is acting as if he's not even interested in figuring them out for himself, but only in helping us. That's plain weird to me.

I'm not voting him right now, but that's where my vote would land if I were going to vote right now.

One post is used to build a case, not determine alignment.

Also, the vote count analysis is for me. But, since I hope other town members can use it, I posted it. It is in Excel, but if they doesn't work I'll post the data in PDF.

The point is that it is for me, and I mentioned it so we wouldn't be so quick to lynch. I find that scum gets jittery near the endgame and likes to keep the fast day1 pace of lynch and go. This of course leads to their win. Town wants to slow it down and talk.

[PeregrineV]

I don't really know how to do a VCA or I'd do one for myself.

It's not hard, but is also not a science.

It's about looking at behavior patterns, and is only one tool to be combined with all others.

For example, until yesterday, there were 46 vote counts throughout the game.

Player	Votes on Silver	Percent of votes
10) Nero Cain	27	59%
26) Oversoul	13	41%
16) andrew94	10	36%
1) Meransiel	14	30%
12) drmyshottyizsik	9	24%
8) Banshee	5	11%
19) TheJakalope	5	11%
17) izakthegoomba	3	7%
2) vezokpiraka	3	7%
11) David Xanatos	0	0%
4) PeregrineV	0	0%

So, based on just one aspect, the heavy amounts of scum spending a lot of time voting Silver, I could conclude Nero and Meran were most likely scum, since that's where a lot of their votes are also.
However, since I haven't looked at the dead town percentage who voted Silver, it's not a true statement. But, I would look and compare, and take it into account with other game play and behavior.

A simple version would be to look at the day1 vote count that lynched Zinger:

Day 1 Vote count 17

Zinger

14 - Vezo,

Mysterio, Junpei, Hipaddict

, Izak,

Pappum,, KillerJester,

DavidX,

Vollkan,Rainbow,Cherve,Pinky

, Banshee,

Shotty

. (Lynch)

Silver

6 -

Oversoul

, Nero, Mera ,

Zinger

,

CHKBallin

,

Andrew

Hipaddict

1 -

PeregrineV

Izak 1 -

ZeL1nk

,

Andrew

1 -

THAdmiral

Nero 1 -

Silver

Pappums

1 -

MOI

Not Voting: 2 -

Pine, Rodion

.

Looking at it, you have to ask yourself, was Shotty the only scum who wanted to lynch Zinger? Or were there more than on his lynch?
Is it reasonable to assume that two scum were voting Silver, but is there more?

You would use this to determine who to look for, and their actual voting posts, and everything else.

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine:

Did you ever complete the VCA? Do you feel you learned anything useful from it, if so?

Completed data collection, but still doing the analyze part. One aspect is knowing what to look for. Since I don't know, I'm guessing three scum remaining.

But, it helps if others are able to use the data, and that's the reason I posted it.

[PeregrineV]

Stopped at 3197- I have to go now. Will pick it up later.

[PeregrineV]

@Banshee, Izak- I'm not slwoing us down. I've not asked anyone to quit posting. I'm asking for a hold to the voting. Use FoSes or call it a TEMP VOTE, so intentions are clear before we do damage that can't be undone.

@Izak- I haven't accused you of not participating. What I'm looking for is reasons, cases, logic that others can follow, etc. In short, discussion about WHY you think such and such, not just THAT you think such and such.

[PeregrineV]

I will clear up some confusion.

A. I am not a Serial Killer. I'm not Bulletproof. I have sent in zero night actions this entire game.

B. Since I'm not a Serial Killer of any sort, I'm not an X-shot or whatever.

C. My alignment and win condition is town.

@Meran- I like how you go from Pere is null to Pere is the SK with no shots left. That's a step from null. But, that's minor compared to all the other stuff your coming up with. Two teams? Two teams of 3? Or two teams of 4? If two teams of 4, we have 5 mafia and 3 town left? And not only that, but one "team" has no night kill?
So, there is not two teams. So, I'm trying to figure out why the hell you would bring something like that up.

@Everyone- How does anyone know whether it's lylo or mylo at all? I've asked how many scum are left, but nobody answers. I expect scum not to say, but guessing at roles without guessing numbers? Is it 2, 3, 4, or 5? And why do you think so?

[PeregrineV]

I'm way more awesome than you.

A. Given you are vezok, no you aren't.
B. Your character cannot be possibly as cool as mine. Period.

Interesting.

Because I GOT THE COOLEST CHARACTER EVARR.

Mass name claim? I don't know how that can hurt.

I didn't post because it wasn't my turn for mass claim and I got proded. YAY.

I'll continue the mass claim because there is no point to stop it now.

I'm Jack from LOST VT.

@Vezok- Please reconcile the "coolest character evarr" with "Jack from Lost, VT". Otherwise, I'm thinking you got a cool role, but a crappy fakeclaim, otherwise, stuff below makes no sense.

I suggest a mass name claim because it starts discussion because I like to be in character.

unvote
vote castle bravo

Oh come on. Everyone draws awesome roles only I'm stuck with a stupid VT.

[PeregrineV]

@Everyone- How does anyone know whether it's lylo or mylo at all? I've asked how many scum are left, but nobody answers. I expect scum not to say, but guessing at roles without guessing numbers? Is it 2, 3, 4, or 5? And why do you think so?

I thought I already answered, but I think there are three scum left in one team. There may be only two but MoI was postulating many more than could possibly be true right now. I want to err on the maximum caution side and say three because we don't KNOW there aren't three. If there are only two, yay. But we can't know that. Three is the most there can be of SCUM. The SK thing I don't think can be true because as I've repeatedly said I can't find one single instance of an X-shot SK. So my final answer is, there are three scum total in one scumgroup and one is an X-shot vig.

Please tear apart the logic if I'm obviously wrong.

So you think there is a whole separate team of scum? That number 3? And that we've gotten all the scum on the other scum team?

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine I think the most likely answer is either 2 scum, or 2 scum 1 SK.

Two scum PRs against a bunch of town ones in 22:5 or 21:5:1 makes enough sense. 21:6? Not likely.

9 person- 2 scum
12-13 person- 3 scum
16 person- 4 scum
20 person- 5 scum
24 person- 6 scum
27 person- ???

Since we have 3 down, I'm going with 3 (although I would like 2) on only one team. The reason for this is that there are not multiple NKs, so I don't think 2 teams.

Also, a SK that doesn't kill seems weird to me.
A Mafia vig may make sense, given a smaller scum team, given them extra kills makes sense. But why wait until night3 and night4 to use them? Maybe looking to hit power roles (they did), but I know Junpei claimed day1, so in theory they could have done it then. Another thought would be some sort of trigger that took place that allowed them to use the kills.

Either way, I may believe a smaller scum team since we also have 2 vengefuls, and if those are assumed to hit town, then that would explain the small team in a large game. And also no protective role.

With that being said, I'd like everyone else's opinions on that.

Now, since catching the last few will not be easy, the thing to do is go back and look through earlier play, when scum wouldn't feel as if they have to be so careful. I looked through Vezo, so I'm waiting for his response, but that is what I plan to do, and recommend others do SOMETHING to catch scum today.

Pedit- I just read the whole DavidX- Meran back-and-forth thing with the 2 team speculation. But no one else pitched in about it. I think it's one team, and now I know you two do also.

[PeregrineV]

Fine.

Scumdar™ time!

Castle Bravo - 9/10

PeregrineV - 8/10

drmyshottyizsik - 8/10

silverbullet999 - 7/10

Meransiel - 6/10

David Xanatos - 6/10

vezokpiraka - 5/10

Banshee - 5/10

Nero Cain - 5/10

ThAdmiral - 5/10

ZeL1nK - 4/10

TheJakalope - 4/10

Rainbowdash - 4/10

MagnaofIllusion - 2/10

FourseenCircumstance - 2/10

Mysterio - 2/10

Bringing up the scumdar posts. Why? Because it's from before, and we can compare it to now. This was on day4.

Castle Bravo - 9/10 (Dead town)

drmyshottyizsik - 7/10 (Dead scum)

Meransiel - 7/10 (Alive)

Junpei - 7/10 (Dead town)

silverbullet999 - 7/10 (Dead town)

PeregrineV - 6/10 (Alive)
David Xanatos - 6/10 (Alive)
vezokpiraka - 5/10 (Alive)
Banshee - 5/10 (Alive)
Nero Cain - 5/10 (Alive)

ThAdmiral - 5/10 (Dead town)
ZeL1nK - 4/10 (Dead town)

TheJakalope - 4/10 (Alive)

Rainbowdash - 4/10 (Dead town)
Rodion - 3/10 (Dead town)
MagnaofIllusion - 2/10 (Dead town)
killerjester - 2/10 (Dead town)
FourseenCircumstance - 2/10 (Dead town)
Mysterio - 2/10 (Dead town)

Can you talk about how your reads have changed since then, specifically how Meran is more town than before.

Pedit- That's right. He said this

By the way. This is not mylo, because we have 2 anti-town factions.

meaning a mafia team and a serial-killer-that-doesn't-kill-and-is-bulletproof-and-outed-by-the-mafia.
Sorry I read it wrong.

[PeregrineV]

Wow, town could not wait to lose.



Well, since my suspects were Nero (for Silver tunneling) and DavidX (for growing more townie since day1) I feel a little better.

And my newest scumtell when close to a win is players in a hurry.

Well played scum.....

@Jason- Great modding. I liked the flavor and the roles, and the work put into it. Thanks!!