TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Chevre]

/soy confirmo!

[Chevre]

Vote: ThAdmiral

You are below me.

[Chevre]

Unvote

this game is a mess. I think a nameclaim is a bad idea; even if factions are randomized, it may be the case that their TV Roles have a factor in any PRs that may exist.

[Chevre]

*vifams reads*

UNVOTE: VOTE: vifam Scum like to keep options open; you really think all those people are scum? plus the people you didnt mention are presumably null.

~hip

Yeah, maybe I went a little overboard with my reads there. I should mull over them so more :X

At first I thought 3IF was overreacting a bit, then I saw that Vifam was so easily swayed by 3IF's opinion. A town would stick to their guns and not change their mind due to a simple statement such as this.

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We will unvote, vote Chevre. Enters, and makes a completely random vote, totally ignoring the somewhat more relevant vezok stuff that was already happening, then unvotes without coming up with a new one, and makes a comment about the nameclaim stuff that was already resolved. We're not seeing any pressing scumhunting motivation from that slot. Unvote, vote: Chevre.
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I ignored because, really, what else was there to say? vezok's idea was a bad one, and plenty of people had already said that. As for the last part of this excerpt of your post, I'll be honest: I didn't have any motivation. When I read those first five pages and saw such a mess, I didn't want to come back and try to sift through it. This isn't a town or scum tell, it's a human being tell.

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The point of the Vezok wagon wasn’t to pressure Vezok. You understand that, right?

It was to gauge the reaction of other players based on how they react to said wagon.
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Rereading this, it doesn't make sense from an individual standpoint. A wagon must consist of multiple players in this game, so the point couldn't have totally collectively been to gauge the reaction of other players, unless you're all some sort of hive mind.

You know that guy you see going into the convenience store when you stop off at that little town on the way to grandma's house? A sort of shifty looking fella who buys a pack of smokes, a couple of lotto scratchers and a tall boy at ten in the morning? The kind of guy you wait for to come out before you and your family go in? Well, that guy is me. My name is Earl. And if you took the time to really get to know me, find out what kind of person I truly am instead of just stereotyping me because of the way I look, well, you'd be wasting your time, because I'm exactly who you think I am. Hell, I'll pretty much steal anything that isn't nailed down.

I'm really truly surprised more people aren't noticing this. I mean, yeah, he foolishly claimed, but the paragraph of claiming reads more like an anti-town role.

IRRELEVANT: All the talk of "blatant sheeping" made me think "bleatant sheeping," and I chuckled a little.

Not wanting to headclaim is about as anti-town as it gets.

Agreed. Personally, I think hydras are unfair and I really don't see the point in them anyway.

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Townies have an incentive to read every single post in a game, as every post brings them close to their goal of lynching all anti-town. Mafia will often skim the posts and only look for subjects they can bring the town's attention to. The joke was fine. I found the fact that he didn't respond to the question more scummy than anything else, as I feel a townie wouldn't have missed a question directly pointed at them.
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I cannot personally hold this as true. A true townie, whose life was somehow threatened, would definitely read all posts; however, as we are human beings on a site where our life is not threatened and our win/loss record doesn't even matter that much, tend to skim every once in a while out of sheer laziness.

1. I have never, ever, ever seen a townie label their vote as being in RVS. Have you ever done this before? Have you even seen other townies do this before?

(this is so not in the right spot in chronological order; It is originally from Post #106)

But yeah, I think tons of people have done it. Starting with something like

Random vote:

I think it's also a generalization to mentally label a vote as RVS if the reason is ludicrous, such as characters in the username or past experiences.

Pappums Leather Jacket in 216 (his spiel on the correct definition of policy lynch): That may have been the definition of ago, but it's perfectly reasonable for a society to morph and mold the definition as time passes. It now predominantly means what killerjester defined it as.
Oh, and while I'm speaking to you: Could you tag your posts with who is posting at the time? I can usually differentiate, but I want to be entirely sure.

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I disagree with this. Yes I think it fairly obstinate to refuse a head claim but I've been in 2 games where the hydra was asked to claim and both refused. In one game the hydra flipped scum; in the other they flipped town. So I see ZeL's refusal null.
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This isn't exactly why we want the heads to claim. You are saying that a hydra claiming or not claiming heads has no impact on it's role, this is true. However, we are wanting them to claim so that one can use meta to reference past games if they so wish.

I don't like Vifam trying to deflect the suspicion on him onto someone else, but I'm going to keep my vote on the Jilynne slot for now. Vifam has enough votes on him at the moment, and I want to keep a close eye on whoever will replace Jil.

Attempt to distance yourself from the bandwagon, noted.

VOTE: Leonshade

I agree with this a whole bunch, considering that Leonshade still wanted to stay on the other wagon even after Jilynne had announced her need to be replaced in the thread.

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ZeL1nK claimed he would kill me Night 1 before I had said ANYTHING in this game what-so-ever.

Ah, nope.

You'd posted in this thread when I said that.

Also, unvote.

That's it?

Still, that's what fueled you to want to vig him? It doesn't really add up.

So I did a search on Vifam. This appears to be the only game he wanted to replace out of. Also, he did it by PMing the mod and made no public announcement in the thread.

Here is what I think about Meransiel. She states that she doesn't care about Day 1, yet she obviously checking the thread for reactions, otherwise she wouldn't be making replies so hastily. Therefore, some part of her mentality is invested in this game, more than she wants to believe.

Vote: Meransiel

, with my other suspects being Leonshade and Junpei/Vifam.

You're totally right. He is. The only thing I can say is that I continue to see Chevre read the thread but not post. But thank you for pointing out Pine's lurking.

You are lying. I've only looked in this thread once. I've already stated that I was demotivated by the first 5 pages. But now I'm glad I finally returned, this is a very enchanting game.

[Chevre]

Chevre's wall post strikes me as the kind of wall post a lurker scum would make after her scumbuddies prodded her and said "hey, you're lurking too much!"

vote: Chevre

OK, I guess that means the mod is my scumbuddy for prodding me. -_- How else was I supposed to catch up?

[quote="Zinger2009]@Leonshade, because I don't know who I should be helping yet. I am keeping my opinions too myself until I do. Also, I am being annoying because I am annoyed, and because it is beneficial for my role to keep myself on people's hate-list (just not too high on it that I end up getting lynched...it's a very delicate balance).[/quote]

Simple: if you're town, you shouldn't be helping anyone. You don't hold your opinions to yourself. The town needs as much information as possible.

Why is it such a big deal that hydras tag their posts? We are one player. We are one mind. You would/should hold us accountable no matter what either head says and truly my meta is much different in hydra because I have to consider his thoughts as well.

lolwutno

You are NOT even siamese twins. You are two separate players who have two separate minds, and have separate opinions. I don't get the use of Hydras AT ALL. Therefore, I prefer that I know the separate heads and that I know who's talking so I can judge them individually.

Meransiel needs to be replaced. She is not actively playing AT ALL; yet a lynch on her is pointless because we have no information. It really isn't fair to the other players in this game.

[Chevre]

Simple: if you're town, you shouldn't be helping anyone. You don't hold your opinions to yourself. The town needs as much information as possible.

And if I'm not town?

Are you saying you aren't town?

[Chevre]

Pinky and the Brain: I've read Post #417 thrice now, and I have to ask, why did you put the case for izak in spoiler? It seems like something a skimmer would just brush right over.

Zinger townslipped. He's town.

You need to explain this.

Meransiel - activity is not measured in post counts. I have provided more information in one post than you have have in all your posts.

Zinger2009, are you town? It's a simple yes/no question.

Also, Meransiel, after your apparent revelation with marco, are you going to contribute now?

[Chevre]

No, not really. Now that I gave you an obvtown, can you please let me lurk quietly? Thank you.

That's not how it works. A mafiate could easily tell us that so-and-so is town by telling us they are mafia and they know this, but we don't give them a free-pass, do we?

And I encourage you to make a "useful post" similar to mine, with your thoughts on the game and players so far, instead of making snarky, one-line comments and looking like a lazy fool.

Pappums Leather Jacket: How do you feel about Meransiel?

MOD: Is replacing Meransiel a viable option? Many players do not agree with her play so far. Like if such a percentage of the players agreed to it, could she be replaced?

[Chevre]

I understand. Those are the rules you laid out at the beginning of the game, and I'm of the mindset that thinks you should play by those rules.

[Chevre]

If Meran is really a member of the town just wanting to try this strategy out, vigging her likely won't derail the strategy in future games. However, if Meransiel is of an anti-town faction wanting to making to Day 2 for some odd reason...well then, vigging her is a good thing. DUH.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Zinger the one who softclaimed Earl Hickey? The role and the character have little correlation, if the mod didn't randomize power roles as well.

[Chevre]

vezokpiraka: Meransiel's play annoys me, it's logically perpendicular to what we consider normal play. It irks me so much, and I know I'm the only one.

[Chevre]

Pine must be using Meransiel's "lurk 'til Day 2" strategy. It's the new "in" thing!

Oh really? So you are saying I can’t make reads on reactions to a particular wagon as an individual based on who hopped on and who didn’t and why they didn’t?

That's not what I'm saying at all. You seemed to be insinuating that the "point" of the vezok wagon was to gauge reactions as players hopped on the wagon. I'm saying that can't be the real "point," because it would require all of you to be working together to accomplish that goal.

[Chevre]

Unvote, Vote: Zinger2009

What more is there to say about this than the fact that Zinger himself has said he is not town? And plus, I guess I kind of do want to see what Meransiel will do for us on Day 2, as much as I hate her playstyle.

MagnaOfIllusion: Then I misunderstood your wording. The point of your vote was to watch others hop on the wagon. It was not the point of the wagon itself.

[Chevre]

Lynch all Liars is a bad thing to think.
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Can you explain this? It always seems in my experience that the majority of people believe this is a good idea.

I think the major problem in this game right now is that people are not taking my advice from #430

We cannot simply ignore one player slot. That's why such a big ordeal ensued when Meransiel asked to be left alone until Day 2.

@Chevre – Who is scum? By this point you should realistically have at least 3 to 4 possible candidates. Looking through your ISO I see many questions but little in the way of developed reads coming from those questions.

Zinger2009 has claimed a third-party, and then tried to backtrack on that claim. He engulfed this in emotional and foolish play. He is my top suspect; therefore, my vote is on him.
Meransiel waiting until Day 2 to do anything big is suspicious. I've tried to think if it could be some sort of role, but I've decided we'll just see what happens on Day 2.
ZeL1nK tell the populace to ignore Zinger is crazy talk. As I've stated above, I feel no one should be ignored.
Pine is lurking suspiciously.
We all really shouldn't forget how suspicious Junpei's predecessor Vifam was, even though she's claimed tracker.
and silverdrummer's fascination with Pine is very odd and anti-town.

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This is BS. I am a human being, and quess what? I read them because I want to find scum. That is the way you find scum, you read and you look for the poster's motivation behind the post.
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I guess your motivation is significantly larger than mine. This game is only one of many things that fill up my life. I still have full faith in the point I made.

From bitching about a player's formatting to telling us we "need to explain" to asking "are you scum" (not going to produce anything useful) to asking Meransiel to contribute, what is any of this going to accomplish? What is this going to do for town? Nothing. This has been Chevre so far, no scumhunting and making asinine comments that dont move the game along.

PitB's spoilering of things in his posts and not petty nitpicking. It seems pointless; you are just asking for players to skim over a spoiler. It doesn't seem as important as the other things in the post. And you do need to explain; have you explained the apparent "townslip" yet? Especially now that you're voting Zinger? I did not ask "are you scum," I asked "are you town;" there is a difference. Zinger was being horrendously cryptic and I wanted a straight yes/no answer from him. And meransiel did need to contribute.

And a vote count would be heavenly.

[Chevre]

silverdrummer: Who is your top suspect besides Pine (I guess in a later post you have revealed this to be marco and Meran), and why?

For resolution on my tiff with Meransiel, in case it is not clear for anyone, I would like to see what she does on Day 2.

ThreeIsFrench: You just declared approximately 1/4th of the players in this game as town, without any reasoning. I need a bit more elaboration.

Town lie. They have reason to lie at some times. For instance, a gambit (which is perfectly legitimate in some cases, Zingers not one of them) is a lie to the rest of town that may be performed by town. Also perhaps some wifom in other scenarios in which town isn't straight to town in order to fool mafia. It's a silly assumption that town never lies and that is bad.

Can you think of other scenarios? Because those seem rather rare.
Also, have you lied during this game?

The end of silverdrummer's Post 896 is fiendishly scummy. He lists five suspects, and then proceeds to vote someone else completely, for an awful and unclear reason. It seems as though he's been caught and is trying some last-ditch OMGUS.

Unvote, Vote silverdrummer

[Chevre]

But why do you have a vote on your 6th suspect rather than your 1st? Or in this case, I'll allow your 2nd.

[Chevre]

silverdrummer: Properly rank the six players on your list, from 1 to 6 where 1 is the scummiest player and 6 is the least scummiest, without any ties, and present a larger case on Nero Cain, since he is the "star of the show."

[Chevre]

silverdrummer: Properly rank the six players on your list, from 1 to 6 where 1 is the scummiest player and 6 is the least scummiest, without any ties, and present a larger case on Nero Cain, since he is the "star of the show."

Why are you insisting that he not include ties?

Because there were obviously some discrepancies in the last list. I don't care if its the smallest twinge of the gut, just fiind something that differentiates between one rank and another.

[Chevre]

@silverdrummer:

If you had to place your vote on either marco or Meransiel, who would it be and why?

@Zinger2099:

Since you believe the most important thing on Day 1 is to keep everyone talking, what are your opinions on Meransiel's early intentions of waiting until Day 2?

[Chevre]

Chevre, the fact that Zinger claimed third-party (despite his retraction) can't be erased from history - why do you think silverdrummer is a better lynch than Zinger?

He was awfully unclear in that post; I'm still not sure if his vote on Neo Chain has been fully rationalized in my eyes. He has cleared it up though, and I admit that it was a hasty vote and a bit spur-of-the-moment.

Unvote, Vote Zinger2099

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Pappums: 3-2-1, just like you.

- He soft-claimed vanilla on the last page. And it was a genuine softclaim, not an I'm-scum-gambiting-so-maybe-people-will-think-I'm-town softclaim

Elaborate.

@Zinger:

If Junpei is wrong for being "allknowing" and incessantly insisting that you are scum, is ZeL1nk wrong for incessantly insisting that you are town?

@silverdrummer:

Would lynching you after the 11th of August being advantageous to the town?

silver's argument on Page 47 with DavidX about Pine being replaced is silly and fruitless. It just shows how eternally stuck silver is on lynching Pine.

@Rainbowdash

: Excluding Zinger2099, who is your top suspect?

And I'm sick of people prod dodging. I take my prods like a man.

[Chevre]

Back from my V/LA.

So why the fuck is Zinger still almost dead?

Half the scum are on the Zinger wagon, one or two on silver, and one elsewhere.

You know this?

QFT. This is a weird statement that is especially out-of-the-blue. No one else has mentioned this theory, I think, before you said it.