Open 319: Jungle Republic - Day 5: Calamity *GAME OVER*

[The Tick]

@The Tick, just curious why have you refrained from voting up to this point and do you have any other reads?

I don't like to vote until I'm sure someone is scum.

For you, I'll run down my thoughts on everybody in this game piece by piece.

Thor - This Ray wagon you're trying to build irks me. Besides his unwillingness to cooperate with you, it just doesn't have any backbone to it (unless I'm missing something).

BBMolla - Got nothing on him. He loses points for the "self votes don't help the town" spiel during RVS. I'm sure Kabuto was just doing it for laughs.

DeityKabuto - I guess he's stopped all the appeals to emotion and raging. While that's still going to be on my mind, he's scrolling down to null-scum instead of outright scum

DonJosh - No read.

TheFool - No read.

blindfaeth - His interrogation tactics are too thorough to seem Goonish.

Whispersilk - Nada.

CMPunk - I say newbtown just based on posting style.

Ray Montano - No read. He DOES need to speak up more, but that's no problem, until it becomes a persistent issue.

Sky - See Ray.

FightingShadow - See Sky and Ray.

[blindfaeth]

So when's the full moon I'd like to get rid of the werewolves ASAP (:

[Thor665]

@Blind: Your case is good. It's wrong, but it's good.

Town.

Thor if Ray happens to be lynched and flips Town, do you think you would deserve the blame?

Other than the blame Ray deserves, yes, the blame would be mine.
If he flips scum does that make me obv. town, awesome, and do you get all the blame? (because you will - from me anyway )

[Thor665]

Thor - This Ray wagon you're trying to build irks me. Besides his unwillingness to cooperate with you, it just doesn't have any backbone to it (unless I'm missing something).

The case for the sun being bright, ignoring it's luminescence, doesn't have any backbone to it, unless I'm missing something.

[blindfaeth]

unvote;
vote whisper

if for nothing else than a nice little pinch to get her posting content again~

[The Tick]

Thor - This Ray wagon you're trying to build irks me. Besides his unwillingness to cooperate with you, it just doesn't have any backbone to it (unless I'm missing something).

The case for the sun being bright, ignoring it's luminescence, doesn't have any backbone to it, unless I'm missing something.

Very poetic.

Still, for just a couple seconds, pretend you're the teacher and I'm the student. Teach me why we should whack this guy.

[Shadowmod]

Ray Montanon gets officially prodded.
CMPunk is on V/LA and therefore receives no prod until Monday.

[DeityKabuto]

@Blind: Your case is good. It's wrong, but it's good.

Town.

Thor if Ray happens to be lynched and flips Town, do you think you would deserve the blame?

Other than the blame Ray deserves, yes, the blame would be mine.
If he flips scum does that make me obv. town, awesome, and do you get all the blame? (because you will - from me anyway )

Lmao all your suspects always get prodded.

[TheFool]

I've played half a game with DK (I replaced out)
IIRC, you are correct, there were no interactions with me directly. But I still dislike your playstyle.
Besides,
1. The policy lynch was during RVS
2. This.

Fair enough.

CMPunk on V/LA and Ray not responding makes for a slow thread right now :(

[CMPunk]

back officially tomorrow morning, not long home, but exhausted and going to bed, just checking in to let you know im still here

[whispersilk]

unvote;
vote whisper

if for nothing else than a nice little pinch to get her posting content again~

OMG that's mean. This weekend is really tough for me. Sorry everyone. I have lots to read and post, and thought I would have tons of spare time this weekend, but rl reared it's ugly head.

[DeityKabuto]

unvote;
vote whisper

if for nothing else than a nice little pinch to get her posting content again~

OMG that's mean. This weekend is really tough for me. Sorry everyone. I have lots to read and post, and thought I would have tons of spare time this weekend, but rl reared it's ugly head.

It wasn't just mean, a bit newbie too, I suggest he unvotes. --'

[blindfaeth]

Sorry if it came across as mean I did not mean for it to. And I know how life can get busy but I am just not used to you being so quiet. I don't think I'm being unreasonable we haven't really heard from you since Thursday.

[Thor665]

Still, for just a couple seconds, pretend you're the teacher and I'm the student. Teach me why we should whack this guy.

I've said it a few times before and have apparently hit a brick wall with most of the players, but let me try yet another rendition - I'm an optimistic guy;

1. Ray is playing in a way that has no scumhunting - he's keeping reads close to his chest and not putting out any difficulties to prevent him from voting any way he pleases.

This is scummy because it let's him go "always suspected 'Player X' whenever he feels like it and helps him avoid being caught in any sort of contradiction of reads.

2. When approached by a player he believes is town, who is tunneling him, he does nothing to help the player un-tunnel and instead mocks his case and ability to form reads.

This is scummy because if you believe someone is town you don't want them tunneled, and certainly not on you. Also, if you think someone is town you should at least try to get them to talk out their reads and explain your issues with them to educate them - after all, you may be counting on them for your wincon later. Having a player beaten down to the point no one will listen to them is only helpful if that player is not on your side.

3. Refuses to back up statements he made by producing quotes.

This is...well...more annoying than scummy. But if I say something to someone, and they call me on it, I LOVE to produce the evidence to prove I'm right. It ends the debate, makes me feel like a real man and be a stallion in bed with women, and also advances the game onwards. Inability to do this suggests you're, well, just making stuff up and hoping no one will call you on it. Also known as lying. Lying is not pro-town.

4. The only reads Ray has offered have been three scum reads on three lurkers (for the crime of lurking) and one town read on me that he then shifted to a null.

This is scummy because these are wimpy easy reads that scum love (scum on lurkers for lurking) and he called me town while I was attacking him, and then shifted me to null when I kept attacking him, which to my mind suggests I was correct when I said his town read on me was an attempt to buy me off and get me to leave him alone. He shifted it to null right when lots of other players started voting me in, my opinion, a pretty clear setup to allow him to vote me if I became wagon of choice after he'd been calling me town.

Does that help?
Or is water not wet if you ignore the moistness?

[Thor665]

In Whisper's defense she's doing the same thing in another game - so the current lurk is probably null.

[DeityKabuto]

Unvote

About time you give a legit explanation of your vote on Ray >_>

[Thor665]

About time you give a legit explanation of your vote on Ray >_>

That was the third time I've done it.
How about you vote Ray now, we're lynching him.

[DonJosh]

Still, for just a couple seconds, pretend you're the teacher and I'm the student. Teach me why we should whack this guy.

I've said it a few times before and have apparently hit a brick wall with most of the players, but let me try yet another rendition - I'm an optimistic guy;

1. Ray is playing in a way that has no scumhunting - he's keeping reads close to his chest and not putting out any difficulties to prevent him from voting any way he pleases.

This is scummy because it let's him go "always suspected 'Player X' whenever he feels like it and helps him avoid being caught in any sort of contradiction of reads.

2. When approached by a player he believes is town, who is tunneling him, he does nothing to help the player un-tunnel and instead mocks his case and ability to form reads.

This is scummy because if you believe someone is town you don't want them tunneled, and certainly not on you. Also, if you think someone is town you should at least try to get them to talk out their reads and explain your issues with them to educate them - after all, you may be counting on them for your wincon later. Having a player beaten down to the point no one will listen to them is only helpful if that player is not on your side.

3. Refuses to back up statements he made by producing quotes.

This is...well...more annoying than scummy. But if I say something to someone, and they call me on it, I LOVE to produce the evidence to prove I'm right. It ends the debate, makes me feel like a real man and be a stallion in bed with women, and also advances the game onwards. Inability to do this suggests you're, well, just making stuff up and hoping no one will call you on it. Also known as lying. Lying is not pro-town.

4. The only reads Ray has offered have been three scum reads on three lurkers (for the crime of lurking) and one town read on me that he then shifted to a null.

This is scummy because these are wimpy easy reads that scum love (scum on lurkers for lurking) and he called me town while I was attacking him, and then shifted me to null when I kept attacking him, which to my mind suggests I was correct when I said his town read on me was an attempt to buy me off and get me to leave him alone. He shifted it to null right when lots of other players started voting me in, my opinion, a pretty clear setup to allow him to vote me if I became wagon of choice after he'd been calling me town.

Does that help?
Or is water not wet if you ignore the moistness?

UNVOTE: CMPunk
VOTE: Ray Montano

Should DK hammer or should we wait until he responds to his prod?

[Ray Montano]

Well I've just responded. Catching up now.

[blindfaeth]

I thought he was at L-2 again or am I mistaken? B/c I unvoted and voted whisper? I don't have a problem switching my vote back after his response if we think he's our best shot for the day. I think everyone is tired of discussion/getting anxious for the day to end, everyone has grown pretty quiet.

[Ray Montano]

Vote stays on Ray for now. Still not convinced he's aligned with the town.

You realize your vote on me is because you don't agree with the defensive strategy I've employed against Thor...and that's credible enough to convince you I'm not town-aligned? Can you explain how that makes sense?

@Ray - I have no idea what you're even coming at me with there, but am pretty sure you misunderstood what I was saying - I'll restate;

1. Faeth "knows" you claimed an alt and a desire not to provide game info - thus excusing your refusal to help meta yourself.
2. You say it exists.
3. I deny this exists in thread and desire him to show it to me due to a belief it showed up in a scum QT. I ask you if you think he metaed you to be aware of the quote.
4. He provides a quote from Fighting Shadow with a 'lol wrong player' and also defends himself because 'he couldn't be talking in the scum QT right now. So...in other words he does a 50% good defense and a 50% please hang me defense. Par for the course.
5. You accuse me of believing the meta doesn't exist in another game and show me it does, answering nothing I asked and proving me wrong of a stance I never took.

That's my understanding of the flow there.

Whatever your understanding is...doesn't make any sense. Your "belief" is half-assed, you don't truly believe I've stated anything about an alt in a QT or whatever you're trying to claim. Its straight up bull. Evidenced by the fact you drop this later while stating your case on me.

I think he is just trying to keep his cool and avoid the hammer.

Wrong. Thor started his attack on me from the beginning and just because he's wrong doesn't mean he's scum. I've explained why I've believed he's town and I've also explained what I've seen from him that I believe is scummy. Just because I'm not OMGUSing doesn't mean I'm trying to avoid a hammer. It means I'm thinking past myself.

@Ray - preemptive - thoughts on Faeth's vote move?

I think its kind of a way of pandering himself to you, which doesn't sit right with me. If blind were scum and he believed you to be town it would make a lot of sense. Scum generally tend to make a sort of ally of themselves to a town player who they believe to be strong and have great sway in the town's opinion. I think he finds himself coming off a little in the worst in your guys' exchange and needs to find a way to find himself in your good favor.

In my two posts I comment on the state of the game, express suspicion of a player, and follow it up with explanation and a vote. The first point at which I have any idea what Ray thinks about anyone is iso 28, 5 days into the game. And from there on out he largely ignores his three scum-reads anyway, focusing instead on specifically not defending himself.

Don't even pretend like you actually did anything in those two posts. You provided nothing for the rest of the town to discuss. Just because you vote and offer an "explanation" means nothing. Stating "Fluff posting" is nothing to help the town with and it is not pro-town to provide a vote without reasoning the town can discuss. I provided my scum reads, gave ample reasoning as to why they're my reads, and have commented on what's being talked about in the town. When you stated your reads you provided nothing useful. And just because you provide absolutely nothing to discuss does NOT mean I'm ignoring you.

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? HOW DO I PIGGYBACK?

READ POST #214, I POSTED THE MOST BIGGEST READS EVER. LEARN UR PLACE NEWB.

1. Unless you're some sort of skilled alt you better watch yourself.
2. I dare you to deny any of this is piggybacking.

The obvious wagon of win I have - you should join it.
The evidence is in my post above.

Interesting, let's see where being opportunistic takes me.

Unvote
Vote Ray Montano

Why did you Unvote?

For CMPunk's reasoning, a wagon that I had not understood.

Unvote
Vote Ray

Thor you are serious about Ray being scum?

Also since I voted Ray, will be SUPER MEGA AWESOME READS get more attention?

Unvote
Vote TheFool

Whispers has more of a case than Thor atm, and Fool was on my suspects list already.

I don't want to seem like voting hopping, but

Unvote; Vote Thor

Whispers get on his wagon, it doesn't seem like the guy you're voting will be lynched, I hope he is replaced out seemingly since he is inactive, although I still do hold my suspicious via TheFool.

Thor seems like the best lynch for today, and I will do everything in my case to champion for it.

...

Between TheFool and whispers? TheFool. Why do you find CMPunk to be not only not scum, but town?

Unless CMPunk was out the door for his V/LA, it irks me that he didn't respond to his votes.

There's a lot of text I still have to read. This game went nuts in a period of 24 hours. And DK has started up again....

Great way of popping in, contributing absolutely nothing, and avoid marking attention to yourself.

if Ray gets mis-lynched, than beware, I will scold you for it, so if you dare, go ahead and try and make it happen.

If I get mislynched how anti-town does Thor look, in your opinion?

Thor if Ray happens to be lynched and flips Town, do you think you would deserve the blame?

*Quoting this just cause its not an answer* Blame aside, who is the most anti-town player because of it?

Alright here goes. I will try my best to explain what did not sit well with me. Keep in mind that I think/agree that the majority of BB's thoughts/ideas etc are pro-town, it is just a creeping feeling that he is trying too hard to appear noble/townie or whatever.

This is a great way to attack someone while trying to attract as little backlash as possible.

Still waiting to hear from whisper.... did Ray disappear too?

Volleyball tournament, Cedar Point, then Six Flags.

Other than the blame Ray deserves, yes, the blame would be mine.
If he flips scum does that make me obv. town, awesome, and do you get all the blame? (because you will - from me anyway )

In case I do get lynched, don't be stupid tomorrow. YOU could probably garner a lot from the interactions of the players who have been advocated my lynch and defended against it. If you really are a good player you could catch scum off it. Otherwise...you're a sucky town player...or you're scum.

[DeityKabuto]

I thought he was at L-2 again or am I mistaken? B/c I unvoted and voted whisper? I don't have a problem switching my vote back after his response if we think he's our best shot for the day. I think everyone is tired of discussion/getting anxious for the day to end, everyone has grown pretty quiet.

Yea I think he is at L-1 also.

[Shadowmod]

So far FightingShadow has not picked up his prod. Because it is weekend I will give him time until tomorrow and start searching for a replacement when the second prod is due.
Sky is over prod time but will not be prodded until tomorrow because he is on V/LA over the weekend.

TheFool (1/7) - CMPunk , DonJosh , DeityKabuto , whispersilk Sky (0/7) - FightingShadow DeityKabuto (0/7) - DeityKabuto , DonJosh , blindfaeth , CMPunk , Sky , BBmolla , TheFool CMPunk (3/7) - Sky , FightingShadow , Ray Montano , Sky , DonJosh whispersilk (1/7) - DeityKabuto , blindfaeth DonJosh (0/7) - DeityKabuto The Tick (0/7) - whispersilk Ray Montano (5/7) - Thor665 , The Tick , DeityKabuto , TheFool , FightingShadow , DeityKabuto , TheFool , CMPunk , BBmolla , blindfaeth , DonJosh Thor665 (0/7) - blindfaeth , DeityKabuto Not Voting (2/12): The Tick, DeityKabuto With 12 Players alive it requires 7 Votes to lynch / 6 to nolynch. Deadline will be reached on Thursday August 18th 2011, 6:00 p.m. Forum Time [UTC-6].

(expired on 2011-08-18 18:00:00)

till Day 1 Deadline

[DonJosh]

My bad. I had forgotten faeth's unvote.

[The Tick]

Ray, did you really switch your read on Thor to null? Based on what?

For that matter, what originally made you think he was town?