Open 324 - Ninja Mafia (End. No Drama, please!)

Cobblerfone · Post Post #9 (isolation #0) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:22 pm

You don't care for RVS? May I ask why, and why you're randomly voting now?

Nobody has any numbers in their name, so I'll

Vote: Hikari Link

Might as well.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #10 (isolation #1) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:24 pm

Oh yeah, I forgot, 18 players. So are we no-lynching today or tomorrow? I wouldn't mind waiting 'til tomorrow.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #12 (isolation #2) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:32 pm

Link wrote:The reason I don't care for RVS is because I don't really see it as a particularly telling of anything. But I'm voting, because even though it seems to have no real effect, somehow it leads to legitimate discussion every time. Like magnets, I can't figure out how the fuck this works, but apparently it does, so I figured might as well try it out.

'K. Yeah, that's the theory. RVS can be useful as a starter. Though I tend to prefer personalized questions. The game is just a wee bit large for me to realistically do that though.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #22 (isolation #3) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:41 pm

Ray wrote:No-lynching no matter the situation?

Because of the win-statistics. Having an odd number alive during the day increases the town's chances of winning, so long as there's only one scum group. Which there is.

Kcda wrote:FOS: Cobbler

KC's town. I have a couple o' theories as to what pinged yo' scumdar. Mind telling me exactly what it was?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #32 (isolation #4) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:50 pm

Never experienced lurker scum. Now tell me why you're fishing for what the town finds scummy?

PREVIEW: I had no idea that when I joined Ninja Mafia that it would be so literal.

Why do you play mafia?
For fun, and a challenge.

Why are you not scum?
Cause of my role PM and because of the actions I'll take in the future.

What will you be known for this game?
:shrug:

Cobblerfone · Post Post #36 (isolation #5) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:57 pm

matt wrote:How the hell do you have a town read on somebody so large that you can blatantly defend them before page 1 is even over?

I'll tell you once RVS is completely done.

matt wrote:That shouldn't concern you yet. Care to answer my earlier question?

Why not?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #40 (isolation #6) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:59 pm

Matt are you going to tell me why I shouldn't be concerned?

Vote: projectmatt

Cobblerfone · Post Post #46 (isolation #7) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:25 pm

Link wrote:I don't think it is particularly uncommon to ask about what people consider scumtells. It's actually a good tool for keeping players honest. If you answer one way and then try to use the tell another way later, it's definitely scummy. Any tool that can be used to find inconsistencies is good.

That makes sense. Too bad you answered it instead of matt. Still, that's a plausible town-motive. Still, I'm noting this. Though, you also defended me in the same way, so it's less notable.

Unvote

Yeah, I feel like we're already out of RVS so I'll just tell you why I have a town-read on Kcda: His brashness and how he went and made a FOS in its own little post. Now this isn't the most clear explanation, but you see what the heart of the reason is, right?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #67 (isolation #8) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:00 pm

projectmatt wrote:The largest flaw in KDCA's scumhunting is that he is using my "tone" as an argument as to why I am sided with the mafia.

Then why are you sided with the mafia? I see what Kc sees. I hope I can get a more solid scumread later but now:

Vote: projectmatt

again.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #78 (isolation #9) » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:30 pm

Link wrote:A good point. What was that, Cobblerfone?

Added mind-pressure, obviously.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #126 (isolation #10) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:14 am

Tomie wrote:Why aren't you trying to persuade others to go for a no-lynch today or tomorrow? The only time you tried was during the RVS.
...
It's actually a post from Matty, but I want a serious response from Cobbly to this.

Since I prefer no-lynching tomorrow instead of today I'm waiting until it's actually D2 to persuade. The thing with that post is that he didn't deny he was scum, rather he disagreed with the reasons he was scum. That, along with the added push on his wagon made me decide to vote him again.

Quilford wrote:Anyway Cobbler is probably scum

Why? Is it meta or general?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #137 (isolation #11) » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:31 am

matt wrote:1. Marking down a random town read on page 1 for no specific reason. 2. There is no reason to use "o'" and "yo'" here. It just comes off as forced.

It's the way it sounded in my head. Also, "yo'" is shorter than "your".

Matt wrote:Ooh, a contradiction! He was asked why he made that vote before, and he said "it added mind pressure" and now instead he says that he voted me again because my wording in that post was bad. I, okay. Seeing something and voting it to add "mind pressure" and then later claiming it was for an actual reason gives away a few major tells.

No, I didn't vote you to add "mind-pressure" (which, when we start using outside of the original purpose to describe something quickly, it does start to sound stupid, admittedly.

). The reason I quoted you and asked that question was to add pressure to your response, in the same way the standard "are you scum?" question is used.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #182 (isolation #12) » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:32 pm

@Maruchan: Please explain your, shall I say, "hyperness"? I know you have a lot of things to respond to, but it does remind me of a certain scum that also seemed extremely townish. Tomie knows what I'm talking about.

Link wrote:Cobblefone: "Mind-pressure" vote seemed pretty shady, like it was an excuse to not look like sheeping, as others have said. Also, a flag goes up in my head whenever I read this sort of argument. It's clear misrepresentation of someone's words. It's not like actual scum are going to come out and actually say "I'm not scum for that reason." It's not like there is some rule that requires them to make only true statements, so why would scum word something in such a way? And this excuse here uses the same logic. Scum are not required to tell the truth.

Scum-slips are all in the wordings, mate.

Project wrote:Cobblerfone: Scum based off of the wall I posted and his lack of reaction.

Excuse me if I like to keep my posts wider than they are tall. Plus, I knew that if I refuted your case "point by point" it would lead to back and forth tunneling posts.

Descent wrote:@ Cobbler: Your thoughts on your wagon? Do you believe scum is currently on your wagon?

Out of the people voting me, Quilford is the most likely to be scum, but I don't believe it's a scum-wagon, simply because it's only three people. (officially)

Cobblerfone · Post Post #204 (isolation #13) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:28 am

VOTE: Maruchan

He's scum.

Maru wrote:You're question about No Lynching. I would rather No Lynch d1, or No Lynch once we get to Mylo. If we NL day one though, we would all have to make in-depth scum-charts on all players so as to allow the scum to make a non-random night kill, so we can analyze said night kill better. Random Night Kills do not help town whatsoever, they merely cause less townies. However, seeing how someone flips might be helpful to analyze their interactions with people during the day, but if I was doing a Random NK, I would chose a lurker, so it gives the town less info. Yes I realize analyzing the night kill is a bucket full of WIFOMy goodness, that is unreliable as fk, but it still is SOMETHING.

This sounds more like scum trying to seem town than overanalyzing town. Iso him, read his quote walls, tell me that it doesn't sound like he knows the alignment of the people he responds to. Here's a sample:

Maruchan wrote:

Link wrote:Answer to question #4 is about on par in terms of scumminess with projectmatt. In general you seem town, but this kind of sticks out. Claiming that you are going to look scummy later doesn't mean your scumminess will get a free pass.

Oh I completely understand! But ask Twistedspoon and Quilford how scummy-town I can look. Also go read my wiki, the 2 games that are at the bottom of my incomplete list. You'll see in time I will be the scummiest town player, and will probably be lynched for it. I'm not saying this is okay, I'm merely giving you guys a heads up.

The "posting a list of reads of every player that's posted despite the fact the game's barely started AND it's mostly null for all of them" is just icing on the cake.
----
Thoughts on Projectmatt and hiplop:
Hiplop is only scum if project is. There's no reason to randomly call a building wagon town if Hip is scum and the wagon is town.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #297 (isolation #14) » Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:37 am

Tomie wrote:Why do you prefer no-lynching D2 over D1?

Frankly, because skipping the first day would've been boring, and would've made it as though it were a night start.

Link wrote:No, I''m fairly certain you're thinking of genie wishes. Most scum I find are due to actions rather than wording. From my experience, scum are the ones that try to twist people's wording against them. Still my top scum pick. Maruchan case didn't help you much either, but at least you didn't jump on the hiplop wagon.

That's scumtells. Scum-slips are amazing, amazin' things. But alright.

@Projectmatt: No, of course it isn't vice-versa. I'd prefer if the people on Hiplop voted you or Maruchan. Or, that's what I wrote in this response, but after I read that exchange between you and Kc, I think you're town, meaning hiplop is probably lazy-town (or incredibly weird scum).

Cobblerfone · Post Post #381 (isolation #15) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:24 am

Kcdaspot wrote:
BBmolla wrote:
Ray Montano wrote:That case is crap. It doesn't mean anything. If you can actually put statements side by side and point how they directly contradict each other then there'd be something of substance there. But there isn't, so you're not building it. Because there's nothing to be built upon.
You're throwing a case to throw a case out there and pull a wagon on someone just to create a wagon.
That's not pro-town and it would be a terrible way for a town player to play.

Just to reinforce this,

Kcdaspot wrote:Ray is getting scummy. I hate 131 with a passion.

My PM wagon is dead so...

VOTE: BBMolla

only wall? "everyone is town."

NOPE.

KCDA is just jumping wagon to wagon trying to get anyone lynched but himself.

BTW i'm weaker than this?

Really?

Considering his case is untrue (you've been an early voter, if not the first vote on all wagons IIRC) then yeah of course your case is stronger. I can lynch Molla as a compromise lynch. I still prefer Maruchan. I especially didn't like his "woe is me" type post about messing up the quotes.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #397 (isolation #16) » Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:40 pm

After my experience with Muffin I'm willing to sheep the Hiplop vote.

Killy wrote:To clarify, you think messing up quotes is a scumtell? I must've read that wrong..

No, the appeal to emotion was scummy.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #434 (isolation #17) » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:00 am

Yeah, we're at the 18th page in an 18 player game. For the sake of everyone's future sanity I suggest we agree to lynch one of the leading wagons soon.

VOTE: Hiplop

To follow my own advice.

Tomie wrote:Uhm, no, I don't? In case you've forgotten, the player you are talking about was on my scumlist the whole time ._.
But Cobbly, what do you think about the case against you from Matty? Not asking you to respond to it, but do you think Matty is looking scummier due to it and why or why not?

Ah, but you

did

know the player I was talking about.

That was a long time ago. I saw it as null. It was his half-page exchange with Kc about... Molla? that made me think he was town.

These quotes were there already. What made you go look into MaruMaru around this time?

That post came after a night of thinking about this game. Maruchan was just reminding me too much of Viscera, so I ISO'd him to make sure. I added the quotes so people would know what I was talking about without having to go look it all up themselves.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #483 (isolation #18) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:27 am

While I always like anti-scum WIFOM, there's just too much that can go wrong.
----

Link wrote:First of all, what is wrong with 18 pages? Really, I think it's kind of short. More players equates to more pages, I'd imagine. i can't really see why he would be opposed to discussion that helps us find scum and see where everybody's head is at. I have the same problem with Empking's response in support of this. Finding the best possible lynch is always preferable to the easiest or fastest lynch, I believe.

Me wrote:VOTE: Hiplop

To follow my own advice.

So basically, he just created a "legitimate" reason for himself to jump on the hiplop wagon.

Me wrote:Thoughts on Projectmatt and hiplop:
Hiplop is only scum if project is. There's no reason to randomly call a building wagon town if Hip is scum and the wagon is town.

So basically, he's jumping on a wagon that he apparently doesn't even necessarily think is scum.

Me wrote:After my experience with Muffin I'm willing to sheep the Hiplop vote.

And even outright admits it.

1: 18 pages is not "the end". It's the signal that we should start wrapping things up. With 18 players it'll take a few pages to settle down.
2: I'm surprised you didn't call me out on not jumping on Molla instead.
3: I trust Muffin's scumread over my townread.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #484 (isolation #19) » Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:39 am

Me wrote:While I always like anti-scum WIFOM, there's just too much that can go wrong.

To elaborate: Suppose a goon/roleblocker, the doc, and the watcher all target the cop. Now the Watcher risks exposing the doc and himself, possibly getting the doc lynched and himself nightkilled. We do get one scum lynched, but we lose

two

PRs. Three if you count the cop. And if we have four there's a ninja that makes the fourth useless anyway.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #523 (isolation #20) » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:12 am

Link wrote:1. I've seen Day 1s with less players go on for longer. I think the number of pages signifies nothing. The reason we have a certain amount of time is so that we can use it.

And how many of those games ended in a town win? Taking too much time can suck the life out of town.

Link wrote:3. So you trust zMuffinMan, who took about a week to read the thread and apparently can't be arsed to post much more than a scum read on one of the most popular wagons of the day, over yourself?

Enough for a D1 lynch.

Kcda wrote:@muffin: i think meta is a terrible arguement...

Meta is the best argument.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #545 (isolation #21) » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:59 am

Is Maru's wagon going to go up? 'cause I'm in if so.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #548 (isolation #22) » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:06 am

Empking wrote:We need competing wagons. If
everyone
votes Maru we'll get nowhere.

You sir, are a comedian.

Maruchan wrote:lol go ahead and lynch me and waste your miss-lynch off of two posts i made. I honestly don't really care. This is one of my least-favorite games I am currently in due to all the sheeping, trying to lead town by Kcda, and crappy play that has been exhibited so far.

This is a scummy post. Appeal to emotion? Check. Vaguely trying to reduce moral? Check. Can we please lynch him now?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #553 (isolation #23) » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:14 am

Maruchan wrote:
Cobblerfone wrote:

Maruchan wrote:lol go ahead and lynch me and
waste your miss-lynch
off of two posts i made. I honestly don't really care. This is one of my least-favorite games I am currently in due to all the sheeping, trying to lead town by Kcda, and crappy play that has been exhibited so far.

This is a scummy post. Appeal to emotion? Check. Vaguely trying to reduce moral? Check. Can we please lynch him now?

Please point out the AtE in me telling you I don't care about you?

Bolded.

hiplop wrote:
hiplop wrote:glad we have the scumteam though

half*

Glad we half the scumteam? What?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #556 (isolation #24) » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:19 am

Maruchan wrote:So me notifying the town that I am a waste of a mis-lynch is Appealing to Emotion?

Yes, the most basic form of AtE. And nothing else in the post pointed to it being honest dismay. It's AtE because it's plays to the fear of mislynching.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #560 (isolation #25) » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:30 am

Maruchan wrote:
I play the same as scum or town to make my meta invalid in cases against me

Sure you do.

I actually meta'd a town game of yours. You seemed more focused in it and more confident in your reads even somewhat early on without all that rosy-footin- around null-scumin' and null-townin'.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #713 (isolation #26) » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:19 am

Hiplop is definitely scum now, whether it was a scumslip or a planted slip.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #769 (isolation #27) » Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:11 am

Hiplop wrote:

Why would any townie be motivated to respond in such a nonsensical, condescending manner? This is nothing more but an attempt to look superior when somebody points out your own scumtells.

??? Again, my personality.

Now, I would give suspicion points to the person you quoted. Except, I have no idea who it is. Seriously, at least put the name in the first quote you quote.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #771 (isolation #28) » Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:14 am

Maruchan wrote:M'kay forgot to do this yesterday (I think) so my list from towniest up top to scummiest down below!

Link
Muffinman
Tomie
Ray
Descent
stormer
chkflip
cavjj
projectmatt
Cobblerfone
Bbmolla
singersinger
empking
kcdaspot
hiplop

Everyone from Stormer to BBMolla are my "I don't care or know anything about em" group.

You're trying too hard. If you're scum, Jester's definitely town, since you're trying to look town with this list, right after KJ's posts his.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #783 (isolation #29) » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:30 am

Killer, that was awesome. Can we lynch Maruchan with this newfound momentum?

Vote: Maruchan

Cobblerfone · Post Post #798 (isolation #30) » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:59 am

In response to my previous post I guess that's a no. And Hiplop goes back into more solid lynch-range if Killer comes back.

Unvote

Vote: Hiplop

Cobblerfone · Post Post #801 (isolation #31) » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:46 am

My mistake Killer was on Molla.

Either way, I'm just going to pretend I'm on both Hiplop and Maruchan.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #837 (isolation #32) » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:01 am

And I thought Muffin had killed the momentum.

VOTE: Maruchan

Cobblerfone · Post Post #881 (isolation #33) » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:10 pm

projectmatt wrote:@Ray
I unvoted earlier and CSL didn't pick it up.

Based off of the players who I would prefer not to lynch today, and based off of the fact that Cobbler doesn't seem interested in scumhunting, but is instead backing up the two popular wagons and for failing to town tell even slightly at any point in the game, I'd say he's a probably good candidate for scum.

Scumhunter wrote:I also thought the criticism of him (I believe it was from cobblerfone) about his tone towards people seemed like noobscum buddying.
My internet's being spotty right now so I don't have the patience to check right now but I'm fairly certain that part of the case came from Kcda.

projectmatt wrote:Based off of the players who I would prefer not to lynch today, and based off of the fact that Cobbler doesn't seem interested in scumhunting, but is instead backing up the two popular wagons and for failing to town tell even slightly at any point in the game, I'd say he's a probably good candidate for scum.

I'm on a popular wagon because it's page 36 on D1. It's also my petwagon so don't even start. (Page 36 is also the reason I'm not providing a whole lot of analysis.)

Cobblerfone · Post Post #882 (isolation #34) » Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:12 pm

Wow, I didn't know the "Q+" carried over from when I had to exit my browser. I also forgot a "/quote" Here's the above post in better formatting:

SH wrote:I also thought the criticism of him (I believe it was from cobblerfone) about his tone towards people seemed like noobscum buddying.

My internet's being spotty right now so I don't have the patience to check right now but I'm fairly certain that part of the case came from Kcda.

PM wrote:Based off of the players who I would prefer not to lynch today, and based off of the fact that Cobbler doesn't seem interested in scumhunting, but is instead backing up the two popular wagons and for failing to town tell even slightly at any point in the game, I'd say he's a probably good candidate for scum.

I'm on a popular wagon because it's page 36 on D1. It's also my petwagon so don't even start. (Page 36 is also the reason I'm not providing a whole lot of analysis.)

Cobblerfone · Post Post #895 (isolation #35) » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:13 am

I might be V/LA. Or I might just not have access for a day/two days. I'm not really sure. If I'm gone for four you should probably just replace me but I don't think it's likely I'll be without access for that long. Still, fair warning.

Ray wrote:Because trying something different and not sheeping will put a target on your back from some of the louder players right? Which is not something YOU probably want.

Seriously? Seereeuslee? (Woah, I actually checked my iso to see how many posts I had compared to yours. I was honestly flabbergasted when I saw I had 35 to

your

41.)

Cobblerfone · Post Post #930 (isolation #36) » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:19 am

This developement is interesting but would probably be better suited for a later gameday. Reads: Junpei made a townslip, Scumhunter seems like he's really trying. (Well, so does Junpei.)

Cobblerfone · Post Post #941 (isolation #37) » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:56 am

Killy wrote:I read that as a VT claim as well.

+townpoints for Junpei.

Are those townpoints for noticing it or for using an early claim as a scumtell?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #943 (isolation #38) » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:02 am

killerjester wrote:Both, actually.

There was no reason for Maruchan to early claim as he did.

Hmm. Interesting, while I do think Maruchan is scum I believe he was plausibly depressed enough to early-claim. Plus, I've seen town early-claim. Also, pointing out an additional piece of evidence can be just as much of a motivation for scum as for town, and the amount of attention a player gives to a game has nothing to do with alignment. (Unless, they simply don't prefer an alignment, in which case it's still more down to personality.)

Cobblerfone · Post Post #980 (isolation #39) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:30 am

Well, the hurricane's past me, and everything's still working. So, I guess I won't be on V/LA after all.

Molla wrote:In regards to KCDA, he's pushy and sporadic and
tunnels town members
for no reason, but I think that's just him, not him being scum. I feel if he were scum he wouldnt have 170 posts, it brings too much attention to him.

Scumslip? I did something similiar in speed mafia as town, but it still seems off. Why not players? Maybe I'm just being picky. Anyway, it's page 40. Can we please wrap this up? I'm willing to vote Maruchan or Hiplop right now. Can we please lynch one of these two?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #992 (isolation #40) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:04 am

BBmolla wrote:
Cobblerfone wrote:
Molla wrote:In regards to KCDA, he's pushy and sporadic and
tunnels town members
for no reason, but I think that's just him, not him being scum. I feel if he were scum he wouldnt have 170 posts, it brings too much attention to him.

Scumslip? I did something similiar in speed mafia as town, but it still seems off. Why not players?

Because I don't think he's tunneled anyone whose actually scum as of yet.

Wait,

that's

your response? So it had nothing to do with using "town member" for "resident of the town" instead of "member of the town faction"? This response is scummy. Is it possible that we have all three scum right here? Plus a probable lurker scum (Descent?) or a leader scum (Kc? Killer?). I think we're all set. I'd be fine with the lynching of Maru, Hiplop, OR Molla today. (Though I just hope we can carry on with lynching one of the two that already have wagons and deal with Molla D2/D3.

)

Cobblerfone · Post Post #995 (isolation #41) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:17 am

killerjester wrote:Cobbler, in which situation would we not lynch until Molla D3?

Eh? Either No-lynch D2 or Hiplop/Maru-lynch D2.

Cobblerfone · Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:02 am

Killer wrote:OH! Nevermind. That was me insinuating that a hiplop/Maru team is unlikely. And that if one of them flipped scum, then we wouldn't lynch the other so Molla wouldn't be lynched D3.

While all of their scumminess is independant, I can actually see this as Maruchan and Hiplop bussing each other.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1023 (isolation #43) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:41 pm

Link wrote:Really? It's possible, but it just seems like a fairly unlikely bus to me.

Both are scummy, Hiplop's a weak player and Maru thinks himself a scummy player anyway. With the way the day evolved if they distance themselves they can at least save one of their supposedly weaker mafiosos. Plus, there was one post from Maru that caught my eye that seemed more like him catching a "scumtell" from his partner. I should know, I've done this both times I've been scum. I'll just have to look for it in the morning.

Why do you think that if one of them is scum the other must be town despite both being scummy? (Well, okay you have Hiplop as a townread, but just go with me for a second.)

Cobblerfone · Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:09 am

Found the thing that looked more like Maru calling out a scumbuddy, his very first read on Hiplop:

Maruchan wrote:hiplop - Seriously? We start off the game with a RVS, which is fine. We then progress to talking about video-games, a bit off-topic but is OK for early-game. You then disappear for two hours and come back to answer the RQS, BUT WAIT. You can't just answer them, you have to turn them into a joke. You then comment about missing a page, so OK, we expect you to go back and read it and post thoughts. You disappoint us in our expectations. You then tell us you get mad-town reads off of the scummiest player in the game, without explaining the reads, or elaborating in any way shape or form. You then disappear again. If you wouldn't mind, Please point out the town reads on Matt you mention!
Scum-null

Hiplop does something mildly annoying, (Joke with RQS) Maru calls him out.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1129 (isolation #45) » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:26 am

Projectmatt wrote:

Cobblerfone wrote:
Thoughts on Projectmatt and hiplop:
Hiplop is only scum if project is. There's no reason to randomly call a building wagon town if Hip is scum and the wagon is town.

Post 297, page 12. Nothing that appears terrible at first. He got me as a town read, which means that he believes hiplop is town. Pairing us up as scum was pushing us, but calling us both town because of something town I did really makes no sense. Stay tuned for futher contradictions.

Cobblerfone wrote:
@Projectmatt: No, of course it isn't vice-versa. I'd prefer if the people on Hiplop voted you or Maruchan. Or, that's what I wrote in this response, but after I read that exchange between you and Kc, I think you're town, meaning hiplop is probably lazy-town (or incredibly weird scum).

Post 397, two posts after Cobbler's "hiplop is town" thing. Just a straight up contradiction after calling hiplop town. Go re-read his "experience" with Muffin. It's on page 16. It makes no sense for his mind to be sporadically changed.

Did I have a town read on you at that point? I'm pretty sure I didn't.

Post 445, page 22. This post is terrible because instead of actually pushing for his scum read, this post says "um i'm going to vote who i think is scum, but ONLY if everyone else supports me. He's afraid to branch out in any way, shape or form. If you pay slight attention to his play you'll notice that.

Uh, yeah, duh. If we

all

stuck to our petwagons nothing would happen. Sometimes it pays to be a useful sheep.

Also, he should have a scum read on me since hiplop is scum but he literally doesn't respond or address me ever.

Fair point. Though I really do trust Muffin (and if he's wrong I would take that into account for my read on him), and Hiplop has been really scummy since then. Plus seems to be enough of a VI-ish player to do something like that as scum.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1186 (isolation #46) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:28 am

@Projectmatt: I checked my ISO; there is no indication that I thought you were town at that point.

Cobblerfone · Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:15 am

projectmatt wrote:Cobbler, the post in question is where you marked me down as town because of my interactions with KDCA.

When were you talking about that? All well, I already responded on that.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1238 (isolation #48) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:52 pm

Ugh, stalling tactics...Page 50...must overcome inability to talk in complete sentences due to fatigue...

I've given my opinion on them all, except Kcda. He's probably town. Though I'm keeping an eye on him.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1240 (isolation #49) » Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:02 pm

Maruchan wrote:I want your opinion on him in the scenario if IF I FLIP TOWN. liek again. plz

My opinion on all three of them has nothing to do with your alignment.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1368 (isolation #50) » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:07 am

Junpei wrote:He can not vote himself and have the day end in an NL, which would essentially give mafia a free kill/shot at a PR while town is forced to repeat the previous cycle and eventually waste the NL with a lynch on Maruchan anyway.

Ah, but there's an even number of players alive, in which case, the mafia don't truly get a free shot. (Granted there's the possibility of a doc.) Or do they? I'm too tired to do maths.

Also, I'm pretty sure Maru is L-2.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:58 pm

I'm not sure I believe Maru, nor am I confident in what he's deduced. But if his wagon dies I'll hop on Molla.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1437 (isolation #52) » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:13 pm

I'm back from V/LA.

Singersigner wrote:I've found that more often than not, when a scummy player is night killed, it's because the mafia was threatened by them.
This could mean either one of two things:
1. They thought he was a PR.
2. His reads were surprisingly accurate.

This looks like scum throwing out a red herring. My first reaction was that they actually thought everyone would go with Maru's final words that hiplop was "confirmed" town to him, and thus wouldn't be lynched. I'll look through the end of the day to look for unnatural looking reactions in the morning. For now though:

VOTE: Singersigner

And yes, I notice the irony in that this also looks like a red herring.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1438 (isolation #53) » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:14 am

Hmm... The only posts that seem off to me are Kcda's and Killer's today. Plus Singer. Though I can read her post as a legitimately concerned townie.

VOTE: Kcda

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1440 (isolation #54) » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:22 am

Scumteam

Kcda
Killer
Empking
Singersigner

Town

Descent
Junpei
Javert?
projectmatt
Molla

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1442 (isolation #55) » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:42 am

How interesting that you don't comment on any townreads. It was a kneejerk thing, but now I'm actually concerned.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1444 (isolation #56) » Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:49 am

In post 1443, Empking wrote:
In post 1442, Cobblerfone wrote:How interesting that you don't comment on any townreads. It was a kneejerk thing, but now I'm actually concerned.

Well that's because I don't care about your town reads.

Just you eh?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1449 (isolation #57) » Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:47 am

@Empking: As the mod of both of my completed scum games do you believe that I'm following my scum-meta or that after two games I would try to subvert my meta?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1452 (isolation #58) » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:02 am

Scumteam because they seem coordinated in their reactions to Hiplop's death. (Though I'm not sure about Empking anymore)

Junpei I think has been covered, he seems like he's honestly trying, Javert is similiar. You, I've covered, your bout with Kcda. Molla seems honest today. I think I put Descent on their by mistake.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1453 (isolation #59) » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:09 am

Oh yeah, I remember now, I was going to put a null catergory in there and to use a scale like other people but decided to only go with the notable reads.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1464 (isolation #60) » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:18 am

In post 1419, Kcdaspot wrote:[oh man].

what in the [heck] is going on...

VOTE: molla

I don't have any clue who's scum any more.

He votes for Molla who was a scumread for him D1, so the last part sounds especially fake.

KillerJester because, as Junpei call him out on, votes me when he thinks both Molla and I are scum, even though Molla is easier to lynch. This can be scum lynching the tougher but still plausible to be lynched player killed before the the easier wagon is lynched or calling his partner (Molla) scum while voting for me instead.

Empking was OMGUS.

Singersigner was explained.

(I also see why I had Javert as town now, he did research on Molla's meta before voting.)

Cobblerfone · Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:50 am

Killer wrote:Now explain how that fits your weak theory of coordinated scumteam reactions.

And don't try to paint me and Molla as partners, especially when you have him down as a town read.

Hmm... I'm not sure anymore what made me think you guys were coordinating.

That part with Molla is a hypothetical.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1489 (isolation #62) » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:58 am

@Killer: Why did you unvote me?

@Projectmatt: What towntells?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1504 (isolation #63) » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:49 am

Descent was horribly inactive, but I'm getting town-vibes from Glowball's posts. I have a tentative townread on him.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:38 am

Junpei wrote:So he is scum because you did not like his RVS vote and he has different reads than you? Yeah, not buying that at all.

Junpei, you know they're the same slot right? If you do, then well sorry scum-man but you ain't foolin' me.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:56 am

You've been replaced fo'.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:09 am

In post 1521, Junpei wrote:
In post 1517, Cobblerfone wrote:
Junpei wrote:So he is scum because you did not like his RVS vote and he has different reads than you? Yeah, not buying that at all.

Junpei, you know they're the same slot right? If you do, then well sorry scum-man but you ain't foolin' me.

Yes I realize they are the same slot. How does that change my point? He found the slot scummy for those reasons? I honestly don't believe it.

You're simplifying too much.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1529 (isolation #67) » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:42 pm

In post 1528, Junpei wrote:Scumhunter, I agree, glowball take a deep breath, explain how in the world an RVS vote and a disagreement on reads with your previous slot owner makes him that scummy.

However, he would say those things so you'd ask that question, how is that hard to see? His emotional breakout is in no way warranted though.

So much WIFOM.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1530 (isolation #68) » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:43 pm

Know what?

VOTE: Junpei

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:59 am

In post 276, projectmatt wrote:
Mist7676 wrote:Checking his ISO (Thanks KCD) he calls you prob scum than doesn't comment any more on you. Not even a vote even though you have been his only scum read at the time. He also calls you "prob scum" not definant scum. Doesn't that seem suspiscious.

The flaw here is that you are trying to say that me thinking BB is more likely town compared to other players mean that we are scum partners. I'm really not sure how to respond to this since if I think that somebody is possibly town, or if I think the town is missing the mark on a lynch completely, I will jump in. This is one of those times.

This is the post that gave me a townread on projectmatt. I think it's honest.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1555 (isolation #70) » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:54 am

In post 1554, Scumhunter wrote:unvote, vote kcdaspot

I just got done explaining why glowball is likely town and you jump on a wagon that should be dying with no explanation.
Yea, not just going to assume you are just anti-town anymore.

Wait, when? Do you mean Killerjester?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1556 (isolation #71) » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:56 am

My mistake, no that comment does make sense.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:51 am

In post 1561, killerjester wrote:Well his entire point in #1527 was, "I'm buying into glowball's AtE." There really isn't any content to disagree with, you were more correct to say, "It means nothing to me."

However, his vote on Kcdaspot is pretty bad, and I DO disagree with that. Maybe Scumhunter isn't living up to his name because he's scum.

Wait wait wait wait,

WAIT

! Hold the phone- How do

you

know he hasn't been finding scum when the only person he's voted for that's flipped is Maruchan?

VOTE: KillerJester

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1580 (isolation #73) » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:07 am

Projectmatt wrote:
killerjester: I want his list of updated reads. The ISO just seems to show him flip-flopping on who he thinks the scum is quite a lot...

1)-I looked through his iso and saw six votes. Half of which were for BBMolla.
2)-Flipflopping is a nulltell anyway.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1594 (isolation #74) » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:00 am

In post 1592, killerjester wrote:zMuffinMan was to make sure you're reading closely <: Junpei, enjoy your honorary 1/10 townread. One of a kind.

What buddying crud.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1596 (isolation #75) » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:04 am

In post 1595, killerjester wrote:
In post 1594, Cobblerfone wrote:What buddying crud.

You sound a little jealous

Don't detour this. I'm surprised you didn't claim that line was a test too.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:45 am

@Killerjester: Junpei has responded; are you claiming it was a test or not? Also, no more "tests".

@Junpei: Do you believe that scum are more likely to be consistent and rational or irrational? How do you handle it when you notice a player makes a contradiction?

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:18 pm

In post 1611, killerjester wrote:
In post 1608, Cobblerfone wrote:@Killerjester: Junpei has responded; are you claiming it was a test or not? Also, no more "tests".

In post 1600, killerjester wrote:Take what you will, I'm not looking to earn points, just letting you know where you stand in that I won't ever try to push your lynch this game. I kind of expected a skeptical reaction. In fact, I'd be pretty damn surprised if you weren't. Cobbler also lives up to his 4/10 read for similar reasons.

So no, it wasn't a test. But I liked both of your reactions anyway.

What don't you like about my tests?

I don't see where you say it wasn't in the quote.

Your tests give you an out. Also, why did Muffin become scummier to you?

@Junpei: Yes, I meant rational or logical from a town point of view. As for me, it depends and I'll give two catergories:
1) Consistency of playstyle, how intelligently a player plays, how they play, etc: If their apparent thought process does not make any sense whatsoever with what they type then that player is scummy.

2) If a player makes a contradiction between two statements: Then it needs to be explored and pointed out, and depending on how they respond makes them scummier or townier.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:20 pm

Oh and the inverse is not necessarily true. Just because a player is consistent doesn't mean they're town.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:27 pm

In post 1616, Junpei wrote:Cobblerfone, why are you asking these questions?

Because you seem especially obssessed with logic and I wanted deeper insight into your thought process. The questions I asked were general enough that you would probably answer them about the same whether town or scum, so it avoids WIFOM that I would've gotten if I had asked about anything in particular.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:43 pm

In post 1619, killerjester wrote:
In post 1614, Cobblerfone wrote:Your tests give you an out. Also, why did Muffin become scummier to you?

He didn't.

@Junpei, you may have a point. But I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Killerjester wrote:
...
zMuffinMan - 6/10 ↓
...

Yes he did. And you just said it wasn't a test. So what gives? And why did it take you this long to respond?

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:48 pm

Killerjester wrote:But I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Right about what?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1656 (isolation #82) » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:34 am

Hikari Link wrote:I also find it suspicious that he can't seem to keep his reasoning straight. He's not sure of why he said things which I find strange for town. Seems to me a townie has a grip on why he suspects the people he does and why he thinks others aren't suspicious. On the other hand, scum have to manufacture reasons, so it's harder to keep straight why they say and do what they do.

I'm sorry, how is this not a nulltell? I said that I couldn't recall/see my reasoning, my reasoning that hasn't been posted. If I were scum I could make up reasoning.

It's WIFOM, but that's why it's null instead of town.

Hikari Link wrote:Kcdaspot: He's suddenly very quiet after all of that activity yesterday. The Marchan and hiplop flips seems like they genuinely shocked him and it looks to me like he's now confused and just doesn't know what to do, which strikes me as town. I can't see why he'd just sort of drop off in activity if he were scum. I'd imagine as scum, he wouldn't let the town flips phase him and would just keep charging forward with the same bravado he had yesterday. I want to see more from him today though and I'm curious what his suspect list is now.

Have you played with him? Here's the thing: If Kcda is town, he's doing this because he's depressed that he was wrong and it's inherent in his personality. If Kcda is scum he's doing this because he either thinks it's townish, or is unsure how to continue.

@Link: How often do you find scum in your previous games? Like once per game or what?

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:39 am

Junpei wrote:Also, I think that I don't believe your "not in order" thing. Your vote is on chkflip yes, but earlier you said that singer was, indeed your top scum read. However then you go on to contradict this very fact by saying that you are voting chkflip, and he is second on your list. However you mentioned that the list is not in order, so this would seem to reason that chkflip is the scummiest person to you. However you said singer was the top scumread for you, so this makes no sense.

The top reads can be at the top and the weakest reads at the bottom with everything else inbetween being mixed up. Plus List of names versus List of scum. What happened to logic.

Junpei wrote:As expected, you only care about your personal state in the game, not the towns' state in the game. As such, you are scum.

No, it just means he's a VI. Don't make me vote you again.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1764 (isolation #84) » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:52 am

Everyone that thinks Singer's posting a code is being so paranoid. What could she even be posting as scum? They don't have a rolecop, and why would they have a code like that since it would count as cryptography. I think it's just nonsense.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1766 (isolation #85) » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:49 am

@KillerJester, why is Junpei the towniest town that ever towned a town just because he noticed an indiscrepency in your reads list?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1773 (isolation #86) » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:06 am

In post 1768, killerjester wrote:I'm playing a game that Kc is modding in [REDACTED], in which he stated he's having trouble with activity because of college. As far as what CSL is doing with him, I'm lost.

@Cobbler, to make you jealous. And it worked. (Yea not really, I just have a very strong town read on him, and that one post followed by his skepticism sealed the deal for me)

Remind me again why you put MuffinMan as scummier on your list. Or was it a mistake? It's been coming out in bits and pieces so I'd like to know exactly what was and what wasn't a test and what purpose the tests served in one post.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1776 (isolation #87) » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:22 am

In post 1774, killerjester wrote:However, I put zMM as scummier on my list with very similar intentions. The first person to question it, "Hey! You never said zMM was any scummier until just now! What gives?" would prove they are reading the thread closely. This one worked out as intended, and as a result I find Junpei to be all but confirmed town. If everyone really hates how I'm doing this though, I'll stop.

You're saying you did a scummish thing on purpose to find out who's paying attention. Despite the fact that the mafia would be looking for any scummy thing at all to latch onto that they can use.

I'm not buying it. For one it's anti-town in a way that I can't see town doing, for two it doesn't make any sense at all. Paying attention does not confirm someone as town. Especially since you've already done a "test" that could put the mafia on their toes.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1779 (isolation #88) » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:56 am

In post 1778, killerjester wrote:
In post 1776, Cobblerfone wrote:You're saying you did a scummish thing on purpose to find out who's paying attention. Despite the fact that the mafia would be looking for any scummy thing at all to latch onto that they can use.

I'm not buying it. For one it's anti-town in a way that I can't see town doing, for two it doesn't make any sense at all. Paying attention does not confirm someone as town. Especially since you've already done a "test" that could put the mafia on their toes.

I'm not saying Junpei passed the test and "LOL AUTO TOWN"

There's a million other examples of him being town.

Then the "test" was pointless.

Killerjester is scum. I do not believe the MuffinMan thing was really a test. I think he just made the whole thing up at an attempt to get townpoints and buddy up to Junpei. This is why it doesn't make any sense, but he's trying to make it look like it does.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1784 (isolation #89) » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:42 pm

In post 1783, killerjester wrote:That's a terrible argument. How does that make me scum?

Because it would be fake.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1786 (isolation #90) » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:11 pm

It's unbelievable. You act scummy to townhunt. You're using nulltells to townhunt.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1822 (isolation #91) » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:00 am

Funny and I was talking about Viscera earlier too.

killerjester's wagon is going nowhere.

VOTE: Kcda

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1913 (isolation #92) » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:14 am

@Viscera: What's different from my meta from the game I

replaced

into?

(Aside: I believe Viscera wants me gone because I played with him when he was scum.)

In post 1872, Kcdaspot wrote:i don't think it's that. something stinks.

Kcda is town. End of story.

UNVOTE:

In post 1879, VisceraEyes wrote:
In post 1875, Kcdaspot wrote:town.

Just the one word? That constitutes the entire catalog of your thoughts on Junpei? That's a pretty strong statement in and of itself. Junpei, you're not moved at all by the fact that Kcda thinks so highly of you?

In post 1883, VisceraEyes wrote:It's close...I haven't ISO'd you down yet, and admittedly I HEAVILY skimmed the last 30 something pages of this game. You didn't do anything OUTSTANDING in that time, so as of right now, yes...that constitutes the whole of my thoughts on you at this time. Obviously since we're having this discussion that's likely to change, but right now you are correct. Although I have to say, the way you want to lynch glowball's slot over letting CSL replace someone in who could possibly be HELPFUL in this game gives me pause. When I'm done with Cobbler, I'll do a full read on you. Fair?

Yeah, you're probably scum. I'll placeholder-vote you until I finish reading your wall.

VOTE: Viscera Eyes

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1914 (isolation #93) » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:16 am

In post 1910, Javert wrote:2.) Cobblerfone, earlier in the game you complimented killerjester about his list that was missing a player (calling it "awesome"), but lately you've been attacking killerjester for the same thing. Why the change?

1.) The first time it contributed to a townie lynch, so I was wrong.
2.) The second time's reasoning sucks and is unbelievable.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1915 (isolation #94) » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:35 am

This is the most I'm willing to quote for now:

Spoiler: Case Reply

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1916 (isolation #95) » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:39 am

Oh, and that "fluff" post: that was a response to Quilford's plan. And if by "reverse WIFOM" you mean "Anti-scum WIFOM" then that was also in response to Quilford's plan.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1927 (isolation #96) » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:06 am

VE wrote:No, the quote right there is 204. Try again.

WHY DIDN'T ANYONE LABEL IT THAT WAY OR POST IT IN COHERENT ORDER? And what does it contradict?

VE wrote:No, I'm pointing out what you're doing...latching onto something 'scummy' to use against a town-member to achieve a mislynch. His actions weren't scummy, the test was, and apparently it was by design. Has he hurt town in some way? Has he lied, or claimed a power role needlessly, or lurked or ANYTHING that can be called anti-town? I don't know, because I'm busy getting you lynched. But I'm guessing not, because THIS is the only thing you've got against him.

Doing something scummy on purpose is anti-town.

Kcda is town because I think that post is coming from a town mindset.

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1928 (isolation #97) » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:10 am

@Junpei: What points were stronger that I didn't answer?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1930 (isolation #98) » Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:28 am

Hey Viscera, what did the townread contradict? Hey, hey, hey, Viscera, what did it contradict that hasn't been explained?

All of your points are reaching. Seriously, what was up with that "way I write point"? I am town, that's all the proof I need that your points are weak. I'm pretty sure all points I haven't mentioned now are related to the ones that I did. Except the one about lurker-scum. However, is there a scum-motivation for me to lie? What's more likely, me lying about something that many believe to be a scumtell or anti-town, or simply disagreeing with how lurky cymru was, or forgetting?

Cobblerfone · Post Post #1932 (isolation #99) » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:00 am

VE wrote:Hey Cobbler! The point was that you lied SPECIFICALLY to justify your then scumread. He was pointing out that you thought he was town and asking what had changed and you were saying 'No, I never thought you were town' when you said specifically that you thought he was town. You even went so far as to claim that you went back through and confirmed that no, you never thought he was town and never said as much in the thread. Which I'm pointing out was ALSO a lie. You're a liar, you're trying to deceive town, and you're going to FUCKING HANG BY THE NECK.

What are you talking about? Are you talking about Hiplop? Please be specific! It's so frustrating when people aren't specific! If it was Hiplop you were talking about then I believe I already answered this: Situations change and a player's scumminess changes. If this is the case and if I were scum, I wouldn't have contradicted so blatantly. I can't prove that, but it's the truth.

I have disputed your points. But I'm going to put this here as a reminder to myself,

stop talking to VE and start talking to the town.

VE if you're town, and that's a big if, you are tunneling yourself way too deep, stop it.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:00 am

VE wrote:For those of you following along at home, after Cobbler dies and flips scum,

For the record, if I die and flip town, I want you all to kill this sucker. Violently. I have never gotten this mad at a person over a mafia game before. He is either scum or completely useless, he's refusing to come out of his little tunnel to hunt the real scum.

Junpei wrote:Here's what you're going to do cobbler. You are going to quote VisceraEye's whole post, and then go point by point refuting everything.

Fine

.

VE wrote:In Newbie1116, he was unafraid to give his reads

Where have I shown fear to show my reads? If you mean not posting them all in big

catch-up posts

then duh, I didn't replace into this game! Ask Muffin or Killerjester, they've played with me as town before too (KJ and I won't be able to go into too much detail because the game isn't over yet, but we're both dead at least). And Empking's been the mod of 2/3 of my scum games. I have three meta's at this point and all of them are evolving: Town meta, scum meta, and replacement meta.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:38 am

Spoiler: The Cobbler File

What's amazing is that he's still alive...and still acting scummy. It's time for him to go guys. Cobbler, it sucks that we haven't gotten to play on the same team yet. Maybe next time bro.

Look at him, being all coy because he

knows

we're not on the same team.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:40 am

He is correct about which quote was 297.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:50 am

In post 1977, whispersilk wrote:
In post 1968, Kcdaspot wrote:Whisper: 5 town 2 null 1 scum.

that's it. He couldn't let it marinate He had to post that. PAGE 2.

you see the problem in that right? do i have to explain myself again?

Sorry, would you mind explaining again?

I don't really see scum asking this. Updated town reads list:

stormer

Javert (Town.)

Viscera Eyes

Killerjester (If VE is Scum KJ is town.)

BBmolla (Town.)
Glowball (Town.)

Scumhunter

Junpei (Town.)
Empking (Town.)

zMuffinMan

Hikari Link

projectmatt (Town.)
Whispersilk (Town.)
Kcdaspot (Town.)

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:05 am

Singersigner got deleted when I was bunching the townreads together. I don't have a strong townread on her. She would be blank.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:21 am

In post 1981, Empking wrote:Now that everyone's said their piece are we able to congeragate around a couple of wagons to have people put their money where their fingers are.

Cobbler: Any reason you can see for that null read?

You mean singer? The blank reads are null or scum. Mostly null. I don't really see how a null read can be explained.

Singer is slightly townier though, now that I remember their was that thing with Quilford.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:53 pm

In post 1989, Junpei wrote:Hm, okay so Cobblerfone, are you conceding that you did indeed contradict yourself by calling PM town and then saying that you never called PM town? I am referring to 297.

I was mistaken. Depending on your definition of contradiction, yes.

VE wrote:If I were scum and caught like you I'd probably be angry too.

I don't get angry as scum; I get nervous, though I try to hide it.

In post 1991, VisceraEyes wrote:[Man], I just reread Cobbler's defense and it doesn't make any sense. I'm going to go back through and point out why, but I'd like everyone to go back and read my case, read the points I made against him, then go back and reread his defense paying particular attention to what specifically he's defending. I'll hold off on disputing his defense until I hear some opinions.

Ugh.

Quick! Somebody dig me out of here! The tunnel's gonna collapse on itself!

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:22 am

In post 1999, VisceraEyes wrote:Ask and ye shall receive. His case and responses are spoilered out for clarity's sake. Each of his points have a roman numeral that corresponds to my response on the bottom.

Spoiler: Case and Response
In post 1975, Cobblerfone wrote:

In post 32, Cobblerfone wrote:
Never experienced lurker scum
. Now tell me why you're fishing for what the town finds scummy?

PREVIEW: I had no idea that when I joined Ninja Mafia that it would be so literal.

Why do you play mafia?
For fun, and a challenge.

Why are you not scum?
Cause of my role PM and because of the actions I'll take in the future.

What will you be known for this game?
:shrug:

The bolded is a blatant lie. I was in a game with Cobbler where he was town (My meta analysis will follow my case) and I was scum. My partner was a supernewb and lurked HARD the ENTIRE GAME. I was able to keep suspicion off him for the most part, we swept town [/flex] but the fact remains, he lurked. IIRC, Cobbler even called him out on it a couple times...gotta check my FAX tho.

I)
This has been covered. If other people think lurking is a scumtell I'm not going to be able to convince them it isn't. If I had a lurker teammate (and the game was in the early stages and I wouldn't know if I had one yet or not if I were scum) I wouldn't lie about my own experience, if I really wanted to influence the game I'd simply say that I didn't think it was. Further more, since this is a meta argument, why would I remove an oppurtunity to bus? I love zem buses.

In post 36, Cobblerfone wrote:
matt wrote:How the [heck] do you have a town read on somebody so large that you can blatantly defend them before page 1 is even over?

I'll tell you once RVS is completely done.

Ooo, maybe looking to gauge reactions from people for some scumhunting? Can't wait...

In post 46, Cobblerfone wrote:
Link wrote:I don't think it is particularly uncommon to ask about what people consider scumtells. It's actually a good tool for keeping players honest. If you answer one way and then try to use the tell another way later, it's definitely scummy. Any tool that can be used to find inconsistencies is good.

That makes sense.
Too bad
you answered it instead of matt.
Still,
that's a plausible town-motive.
Still,
I'm noting this.
Though,
you also defended me in the same way, so it's less notable.

Unvote

Yeah, I feel like we're already out of RVS so I'll just tell you why I have a town-read on Kcda:
His brashness and how he went and made a FOS in its own little post
. Now this isn't the most clear explanation,
but you see what the heart of the reason is, right?

There are a couple of things I don't like about this post. First, notice how infirm he is on any kind of opinion he might have.
Though,
he could just be intimidated in this big game.
Still,
that doesn't excuse not taking a stance on the matter.
Though,
I guess it could just be d1 paranoia.
Too bad
we don't know who we can trust.
But you see what I'm saying, right?

Second, THIS was what he was withholding from town until RVS was over. That he thinks Kcda is town because he FoS'd someone. Really. Honestly, read it again. I even italicized it to set it apart. WHY would he need to wait until RVS is over to say that? There's no good reason. It reads like it's something he saw some townie do with a town motivation in a different game. It stinks. I don't like it.

II)
The first part is my personality. And again since this is partly meta, I think I'm more brash as scum anyway.

The second part has good reason on my end: If I didn't wait until RVS was over I wouldn't be able to use what I think was a towntell under the circumstances for anyone else. Scum could try to fake it, making it useless.

In post 67, Cobblerfone wrote:
projectmatt wrote:The largest flaw in KDCA's scumhunting is that he is using my "tone" as an argument as to why I am sided with the mafia.

Then why are you sided with the mafia? I see what Kc sees. I hope I can get a more solid scumread later but now:

Vote: projectmatt

again.

What I don't like about this post (AND Kc's for that matter) is this. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that those four 'getting to know you' questions will help town find scum. Period. Nothing in the content of the questions OR the possible answers will do ANYTHING to help town find scum. Period. Yet they're buddying up early on saying that PM is scum based on his answers. Ridiculous. And Scummy.

III)
Differences of opinion. What makes you think the questions and answers weren't able to do so? Now
you
aren't explaining properly.

REMOVED KCDA RELATED QUOTE

In post 182, Cobblerfone wrote:@Maruchan: Please explain your, shall I say, "hyperness"? I know you have a lot of things to respond to,
but it does remind me of a certain scum that also seemed extremely townish. Tomie knows what I'm talking about.

Link wrote:Cobblefone: "Mind-pressure" vote seemed pretty shady, like it was an excuse to not look like sheeping, as others have said. Also, a flag goes up in my head whenever I read this sort of argument. It's clear misrepresentation of someone's words. It's not like actual scum are going to come out and actually say "I'm not scum for that reason." It's not like there is some rule that requires them to make only true statements, so why would scum word something in such a way? And this excuse here uses the same logic. Scum are not required to tell the truth.

Scum-slips are all in the wordings, mate.

Project wrote:Cobblerfone: Scum based off of the wall I posted and his lack of reaction.

Excuse me if I like to keep my posts wider than they are tall. Plus, I knew that if I refuted your case "point by point" it would lead to back and forth tunneling posts.

First of all, bolded is proof positive that Cobbler lied about my first point. He specifically remembers that game (it wasn't long ago.) Tomie was in it too...she was the doctor and I SMOKED her (Sorry Tomie, wish you were still here...this game needs ur uber-detectivity)

As for the italicized bit, he's attempting to justify his lack of defense against a reasonable (in my opinion) case against him.

IV)
I remember the game. Do you remember
exactly
what happened in the last three games you finished? Because there's two games between this one and Newbie 1116 for me. The italicized is what's happening between you and me right now. And it is friggin' annoying, it's reminding me of my first newbie game. And I hardly use "friggin'".

VI)
REMOVED KCDA QUOTES

In post 483, Cobblerfone wrote:While I always like anti-scum WIFOM, there's just too much that can go wrong.
----

Link wrote:First of all, what is wrong with 18 pages? Really, I think it's kind of short. More players equates to more pages, I'd imagine. i can't really see why he would be opposed to discussion that helps us find scum and see where everybody's head is at. I have the same problem with Empking's response in support of this. Finding the best possible lynch is always preferable to the easiest or fastest lynch, I believe.

Me wrote:VOTE: Hiplop

To follow my own advice.

So basically, he just created a "legitimate" reason for himself to jump on the hiplop wagon.

Me wrote:Thoughts on Projectmatt and hiplop:
Hiplop is only scum if project is. There's no reason to randomly call a building wagon town if Hip is scum and the wagon is town.

So basically, he's jumping on a wagon that he apparently doesn't even necessarily think is scum.

Me wrote:After my experience with Muffin I'm willing to sheep the Hiplop vote.

And even outright admits it.

1: 18 pages is not "the end". It's the signal that we should start wrapping things up. With 18 players it'll take a few pages to settle down.
2: I'm surprised you didn't call me out on not jumping on Molla instead.
3: I trust Muffin's scumread over my townread.

Reverse WIFOM? Really? Honestly? Those were ALL valid points against you Cobbler, and REVERSE WIFOM is the best defense you can think of?

VII)
I covered this. "Anti-scum WIFOM" refers to Quilford's post. That's why there's a dividing-bar there.

In post 484, Cobblerfone wrote:
Me wrote:While I always like anti-scum WIFOM, there's just too much that can go wrong.

To elaborate: Suppose a goon/roleblocker, the doc, and the watcher all target the cop. Now the Watcher risks exposing the doc and himself, possibly getting the doc lynched and himself nightkilled. We do get one scum lynched, but we lose
two
PRs. Three if you count the cop. And if we have four there's a ninja that makes the fourth useless anyway.

This post is useless. Fluff. Pointless. AND scummy.

VIII)
Why is it useless? It elaborated on a prior statement.

In post 523, Cobblerfone wrote:
Link wrote:1. I've seen Day 1s with less players go on for longer. I think the number of pages signifies nothing. The reason we have a certain amount of time is so that we can use it.

And how many of those games ended in a town win? Taking too much time can suck the life out of town.

Link wrote:3. So you trust zMuffinMan, who took about a week to read the thread and apparently can't be arsed to post much more than a scum read on one of the most popular wagons of the day, over yourself?

Enough for a D1 lynch.

Kcda wrote:@muffin: i think meta is a terrible arguement...

Meta is the best argument.

This is one of the first posts indicating that Cobbler is more interested in lynching than he is in actually lynching SCUM. It's scummy behavior. Why WOULDN'T you want all the time necessary to pick the BEST lynch? You've had misgivings about ALL your reads, you said so yourself that you don't really trust your reads. He's trying to end the day because he knows that town is the most popular wagon and he wants to secure a mislynch.

IX)
BECAUSE OF NEWBIE 1116! GAH! THIS IS WHY I AM MAD AT YOU. MY READS ARE NOT LOCKED IN PLACE ONCE D1 ENDS. MY POSTS THIS DAY ARE PROOF ENOUGH.

In post 545, Cobblerfone wrote:Is Maru's wagon going to go up? 'cause I'm in if so.

See? And to think if the day was over, you wouldn't have had this opportunity to pick someone more scummy. Now what was all that 'let's end the day already' nonsense?

X)
If his wagon hadn't gone up and instead we had lynched sooner, or if we had lynched him immediately on the next page, you wouldn't have had to have read all of these pages.

In post 1129, Cobblerfone wrote:
Projectmatt wrote:

Cobblerfone wrote:
Thoughts on Projectmatt and hiplop:
Hiplop is only scum if project is. There's no reason to randomly call a building wagon town if Hip is scum and the wagon is town.

Post 297, page 12. Nothing that appears terrible at first. He got me as a town read, which means that he believes hiplop is town. Pairing us up as scum was pushing us, but calling us both town because of something town I did really makes no sense. Stay tuned for futher contradictions.

Cobblerfone wrote:
@Projectmatt: No, of course it isn't vice-versa. I'd prefer if the people on Hiplop voted you or Maruchan. Or, that's what I wrote in this response, but after I read that exchange between you and Kc,
I think you're town
, meaning hiplop is probably lazy-town (or incredibly weird scum).

Post 397, two posts after Cobbler's "hiplop is town" thing. Just a straight up contradiction after calling hiplop town. Go re-read his "experience" with Muffin. It's on page 16. It makes no sense for his mind to be sporadically changed.

Did I have a town read on you at that point? I'm pretty sure I didn't.

What about that bolded bit? That came directly from one of your posts.

In post 1186, Cobblerfone wrote:@Projectmatt: I checked my ISO; there is no indication that I thought you were town at that point.

Must not have read post #297. *shrug*

XI)
I blame the way he setup the quotes. It made it look like the quote on top was 297 and the bottom one was 397. In fact, once I'm done I'm going to see that actually is 297 and what is supposed to be contradictory.

In post 1776, Cobblerfone wrote:
In post 1774, killerjester wrote:However, I put zMM as scummier on my list with very similar intentions. The first person to question it, "Hey! You never said zMM was any scummier until just now! What gives?" would prove they are reading the thread closely. This one worked out as intended, and as a result I find Junpei to be all but confirmed town. If everyone really hates how I'm doing this though, I'll stop.

You're saying you did a scummish thing on purpose to find out who's paying attention. Despite the fact that the
mafia would be looking for any scummy thing at all to latch onto that they can use.

I'm not buying it. For one it's anti-town in a way that I can't see town doing, for two it doesn't make any sense at all. Paying attention does not confirm someone as town. Especially since you've already done a "test" that could put the mafia on their toes.

How is coming out with a plan that successfully netted him someone who's by his estimation now confirmed town? And no one even had to die to confirm it! Why are you so against someone reading someone else as town? And further, why do you care how he plays the game? It's not like he tried to derail one of your wagons, or is suspecting you in any way, or did anything to harm town. This is a classic example of exactly what he's talking about. Mafia looking for any scummy thing at all to latch onto that they can use.

XII)
Can I not question the method? Again if I said "My muffin had peanuts in it this morning. That means you have to be town." Would you not call me out on it. This is the scummiest point against you.

_______________________________________________________________

I) He missed the mark entirely in defending this point. I was pointing out that he was lying. I don't care who does or doesn't think lurking is a scum tell. The fact of the matter is that he lied to town saying he'd never experienced lurker scum, in my opinion to further his agenda.

I. Did. Not. Lie. Explain how this post (lie or not) can further this "agenda" of which you speak.

II) Whether it's part of his personality or not, it's a known fact that scum, unless they're extremely good, will flounder around and refuse to commit to opinions about even the most trivial of things. In this case, he was floundering around about 'taking note' of something. Seriously? And for the record, someone commenting on their own meta is meaningless because if they're scum, they could just be lying or deliberately leaving out parts.

So if you use meta on player how can they defend themselves without meta? (I believe I used the wrong word to describe my scumself anyway, I'm not brash, more like firm?)

The second part isn't a good reason at all. First, RVS is RANDOM VOTING STAGE…meaning that even scum aren't trying to 'drop town tells' or anything because everyone's vote is 'random' and it doesn't matter what we do. And furthermore, what's to stop scum from using that 'town-tell' (which, by the way, is still "he FoS'd someone in its own post") the rest of the game? It's nonsense.

It wasn't a vote. It wasn't random. Who's ever heard of a random FoS? It's only a towntell for RVS really.

IV) Actually, yes…I remember what's happened in all the games I've been in, scum OR town. It's part of playing the game…you have to remember
certain
things in order to be successful.

That's part of recognizing patterns. But very few people have a perfect memory. Especially if it was of something they disliked.

VI) I find it telling that you removed the Kcda quotes in spite of the fact that I left them in there. Why not leave them in there and be like 'WTF are these Kcda quotes doing in a case against me?' My guess? Because you didn't want a connection to be drawn between you and Kcda, but didn't want to be accused of altering my case…so you removed the quotes and indicated specifically that you did so…allowing town to draw their own conclusions.

I removed them because they have nothing to do with me. There is no connection between me and Kcda. Your points about the supposed connection between me and him are pretty meh-filler.

VII) While it's true that I thought anti-scum WIFOM was part of your defense against those points, the fact remains that you didn't defend against those points at all. For instance, WHY should we start wrapping things up at 18 pages on d1? And how in the [heck] is admitting that you sheeped Muffin a defense against someone claiming you admitted that you sheeped Muffin?

1) Because long days drain the life out of the town and the game in general.
2) What defense? Sheeping ain't a scumtell.
3) I am not scum. See point 2.

VIII) And in what way was the original post helpful in any way? It looks to me like you're trying to look like you're contributing when you're not contributing anything at all.

No it was an afterthought. This is not a good point, my post was not a scumtell in any way.

IX) My point was that he was more interested in lynching and ending the day than he was in actually finding scum. Do you see a defense of that point anywhere? All I see is him defending why he wanted to end the day. Nothing about 'No, I thought my read was accurate and was pushing to get him lynched'. Just 'Yeah, I wanted to end the day…and I'm mad at YOU about it! GRRRRRZ AtE GRRRRRZZZ

Yes, I wanted to end the day. Long days drain the life out of town; they're more detrimental than a mislynch. And if they're combined with a mislynch it made it pointless.

X) Actually, I would, because these pages would have been taken up with the following day and I'd still have to read them. Because I'm town. That's what town does. Reads the whole thread and finds the most likely scum candidate based on WHAT HE'S READ.

1) No, because the pages wouldn't exist.
2) No, that's what dedicated players do, town or scum. It doesn't make sense for scum to not read the thread anymore than for town. Heck, we've had discussion on the amished-tell which involves scum reading things that town supposedly don't.

XI) I blame the fact that you were lying to town TWICE. You've been caught in a contradiction. Call it what it is. You told town that you never thought PM was town. You then lied and said that you ISO'd yourself and that in fact you never stated as much in thread. Which was a lie. As I illustrated. I don't care how his QUOTES lined up, you said you ISO'd yourself. That was a lie. How was
I
able to find it when I didn't even say it?

I honestly don't remember if we had the "real" numbers in ISOs yet or if I just didn't look. I read up to the top quote. I didn't have a town read up to that quote. I did not lie.

XII) Please, do so. Ask him why he did it that way. Ask him how the fact that he did it that way gave him that read. I'm all about that. But you didn't do that. You called him scummy for it. EXACTLY WHAT YOU WERE SAYING HE WAS PLAYING INTO.

Um. Didn't I? I asked him if that specific thing gave him a read, he answered, I said no that doesn't make sense, and he was free to respond with how it makes sense.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:27 am

VE wrote:Second, THIS was what he was withholding from town until RVS was over. That he thinks Kcda is town because he FoS'd someone. Really. Honestly, read it again. I even italicized it to set it apart. WHY would he need to wait until RVS is over to say that? There's no good reason. It reads like it's something he saw some townie do with a town motivation in a different game. It stinks. I don't like it.

VE wrote:
How is coming out with a plan that successfully netted him someone who's by his estimation now confirmed town? And no one even had to die to confirm it!
Why are you so against someone reading someone else as town?
And further, why do you care how he plays the game? It's not like he tried to derail one of your wagons, or is suspecting you in any way, or did anything to harm town. This is a classic example of exactly what he's talking about. Mafia looking for any scummy thing at all to latch onto that they can use.

Contradiction. So Viscera, are contradictions scummy or not?

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:07 am

In post 2024, VisceraEyes wrote:I'd like everyone to take note of the fact that Cobbler's been at L-2 for a while and there has been no attempt by scum to 'mislynch' him by sheeping onto my very GOOD case.

Oh hey, look, he's telling his buddies to lynch me. Isn't that quaint?

Maybe it's because your case is rubbish and lynching me while sheeping it would be scummy; what with a lot of it being circumstantial.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:10 am

In post 2022, Empking wrote:Cobbler: Don't waste your vote be a smarty. Come and join the BB party.

I think I'd rather no-lynch. Though if I have to it's better than a player I know is town.

@BBmolla: If you're town start to contribute more, please.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:36 am

In post 2034, killerjester wrote:I'm not sold on a Cobbler lynch. And why do you get the impression I still want to lynch glowball's slot?

Also, Cobbler, have you explained your town read on BBmolla?

I think I did. It looked like he really did think being lynched would be okay.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:41 am

In post 2036, killerjester wrote:Ah okay, why am I town if VE is scum?

Because I think he gave away that you were town here:

VE wrote:How is coming out with a plan that successfully netted him someone who's by his estimation now confirmed town? And no one even had to die to confirm it! Why are you so against someone reading someone else as town? And further, why do you care how he plays the game? It's not like he tried to derail one of your wagons, or is suspecting you in any way, or did anything to harm town. This is a classic example of exactly what he's talking about. Mafia looking for any scummy thing at all to latch onto that they can use.

I don't think he would post this if you were his buddy.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:49 am

Hmm... I just realized that if you're scum, that means VE is probably town then. VE is more annoying though with his tunnelling and gigantic cases. I don't care if he hides them in spoilers, I have to read them either way. So I hope that out of the two of you, if either, that he's scum.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:56 am

Junpei wrote:The main issue I have with his wanted a conclusion to the day is that he is unsure of his reads, yet still wants to dive ahead.

D1 is my least favorite day to drag out, particularly because of N1116, I'd prefer to have a number of pages = to the number of players plus maybe a quarter so I can get a context for how good my reads are while still being able to get the groundwork in on my reads.

VE wrote:Now, as far as the whole 'buddying that hard being indicative of one or the other', have you read the rest of their interactions throughout the rest of the game? The buddying turns to distancing into buddying into distancing so often it makes me nauseous.

Hey, question: Have you read a scum game of mine? (Open: I forget the number is pretty short, though I was on V/LA during part of it.)

VE wrote:Okay, I'm reading town on Empking because combined with his town meta and generally town-feeling responses, Cobbler appears to be appealing directly to him in this post (Empking has stated that he has an aversion to cases.) Empking is also NOT on the Cobbler wagon, and it feels like Cobbler wants to keep it that way.

Is it possible you're town?

VE wrote:
zMuffin: YOU'RE SCUM!!!!

lol j/k.

Nevermind.

Project wrote:1. Do you think that Ve is scum because of his case on you? If so, what makes you think the case is scum motivated? If not, why is he scum?

2. Does this mean that the current players who aren't on your wagon are scum, and therefore we can find several scum through the list of these players:

Empking
killerjester
Kcdaspot
zMuffinMan
Scumhunter

Those are the players not voting you. Who are the buddies within them?

1: Because the points are no good and he's not conceding on any of them, particularly the meta-points. Yes, I like meta for gutscum-hunting, but he's using comparisons with replacement-town-me to say I'm scum.

2: The second line was partly a joke. But out of those players the only ones I don't have a strong townread on are Muffin and Scumhunter. While they post in good chunks, it's somewhat infrequent and it's hard to get a read on them. Out of the players on my wagon, stormer would be scary since he's gone AWOL.
Everyone else seems pretty townish, though again it feels to me that Link has dropped in activity from D1, so again, it just brings him into question for me. Also, why did you leave out Singer and Javert?

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:24 am

In post 2081, Junpei wrote:Until you go point by point explaining how each is a nulltell I won't believe you as I see scum tells. The cobbler case is well built, and the fact that he is responding to scum tells as "no they are not" is telling if you are wrong.

A nulltell is a tell that both scum and town can do. Let's go through the points you thought were valid and see how many of them are null:

In post 2062, Junpei wrote:
Cobblerfone's first point isn't even a direct answer to the argument laid out by VisceraEyes, he definitely contradicted himself and Viscera's point remains valid.

(I'm assuming this refers to the "Never seen lurker scum comment") Forgetting or not agreeing or a combination of both is not a scumtell, and is not unbelievable. I know, because it's a fact.

Junpei wrote:
Cobblerfone's second point is basically him saying his personality is waffling, which isn't a personality, that is covering for a scumtell by saying something is that we can't ever prove isn't (or is, for that matter). Secondly, the issue here cobbler is that you had a town read on someone "so large that you can blatantly defend them before page 1 is over", and you stalled your reasoning on it. Then when you finally did reason it, it was a small town tell, if that even. I believe you're talking about this as his brashness (how is that a display of brashness?) and this as his single post Fos (how is that a town tell?). This is a poor reason, and Viscera's point remains valid.

Viscera contradicts himself on this point later where he then says that I'm scum because I called another player scum for using an awful towntell, but using a poor (in your opinion) towntell, (especially in RVS) is not a scumtell. Hmm... Ya know, I just noticed something.

Junpei wrote:
Cobblerfone's third point is poor as well. He is saying that he also sees what kcdaspot sees in PM's answers to 3 and 4 (I highly disagree that there was anything wrong with them, but that aside...) cobbler never explained why they were wrong. For those of you who have forgotten, these were PM's answers. There is nothing really wrong with them at all, in fact there is nothing to really say about them. Later, kcdaspot elaborates that he means it is the tone and that while Links' answers weren't trying to be friendly, PM is. Which, is completely stupid. It isn't a matter of opinion, cobbler, it is a matter of fact. Viscera's point remains valid.

Junpei wrote:
Cobblerfone's fourth point is that he remembers that there was a certain scum who was townish, but not that there was a certain scum that was lurking, even though he commented on the latter in game. I don't buy it, Viscera's point remains valid

Which playstyle am I more likely to remember and place more significance on: The guy who's too towny-to-be-town scum that posts HUGE walls, or lurker scum who actually does post regularly? I mean, it's not like he prod-dodged all the time. He didn't did he?

Junpei wrote:
Cobblerfone's sixth point isn't something I agree with because it is elaborating on a point that didn't need to be elaborated on, and he does it in a second post, for no reason. But it isn't that big of a deal, and unless viscera was planning on posting libraries of fluff from cobblerfone, it isn't necessary to the case.

I posted it in a second post because I realized that I better explain myself. Again, null.

I'll have to look up points 7-9.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:53 am

In post 2083, Junpei wrote:1. I don't believe that you just forgot

2. How did he contradict himself? Seems like you were the one who contradicted yourself.

3. Well if I"m about to make a proclamation such as "never seen lurking scum", I would have to be certain about it, or close to certain.

1. I'm so tired of this point I decided to look it up to see if it's even correct. During D1 in that game posted at least once every day, while frequently skipping one day. The longest he went without posting was four days, which happened once.

2. Yes, I acknowledged that, he still contradicts himself with point ten.

3. I don't even need a three.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:54 am

The player is "Cymru"-such and such a number- If you want to look up his ISO yourself.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:12 pm

Okay, let's see... Point seven, I think that's the ending the day sooner:

I saw a long D1 suck the life out of the town and the game in Newbie 1116. Naturally, I didn't want the same to happen here. And in my opinion, it has.

Junpei wrote:2. How did he contradict himself? Seems like you were the one who contradicted yourself.

Also, it's less a contradiction, more of a realization. I still think KJ used a scummy towntell. But that's what makes "tells" so imperfect to begin with. You can't really generalize, you have to go situation to situation. Especially since KJ and I used different "towntells" anyway.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:01 pm

Link gets a townread from me, for working so hard on a case between two other people. I am way too lazy to read all of that though.

I will claim if somebody off of my wagon asks me to/threatens to hammer.

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:11 pm

In post 2094, Junpei wrote:
In post 2092, Cobblerfone wrote:Link gets a townread from me, for working so hard on a case between two other people. I am way too lazy to read all of that though.

I will claim if somebody off of my wagon asks me to/threatens to hammer.

Allow me to translate:

"Some guy made a case response against me, he is town because he is trying hard. I don't really know how hard he is trying or even if his facts are right, but I'm going to assume that they are as I haven't read his post because I'm 'lazy'. Yes I realize his points are against me, but they can still be right can't they?..."

Okay last part I added, but it was practically implied. I don't know why you aren't going to cross-check what Link is saying, perhaps because you're scum and don't want to put forth the effort in a game you are already dead in?

pedit: Empking, may I suggest going to the hardware store and buying some rope? Because at the rate you're posting useless and meaningless posts, you're gonna need some.

The point is: Why work so hard against a townie? What's the point? Unless... Have you read it? Does it setup a Viscera lynch for when I flip town?

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:15 pm

In post 2097, Junpei wrote:
pedit:
Mafia might want to work hard against a townie....

But, I was L-2 at the time...

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:18 pm

In post 2099, Empking wrote:

What is your current read on Link and why?

Null. Because he's null posting.

What do you think of Cobblers' rebuttal and why?

Not scummy.

How am I flailing?

I agree with Empking here. He practically posts the same thing as BBmolla and when he asks you why you ignored BB you call him flailing. What?

VOTE: BBmolla

Maybe Kc's right about him being the scum PR?

Cobblerfone · Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:24 pm

I'm going to bed. No hammering me until someone off my wagon asks and until I can claim.

I don't want my something-hour absence to be an excuse for impatient scum to hammer.

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:42 am

Okay, since people unvoted me for safety and with all the votes together I would be lynched, I'll claim.

I am the cop.

Descent is innocent. I even breadcrumbed this in case I was nightkilled ever, I'll go find it.

VOTE: No Lynch

I suggest we no lynch instead of risking running up another PR. If I die tonight the mafia won't be able to claim doctor, If I don't die the doctor probably won't make any saves anyway, and we'll finally have an odd number of players.

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:44 am

In post 1440, Cobblerfone wrote:
Scumteam

Kcda
Killer
Empking
Singersigner

Town

Descent
Junpei
Javert?
projectmatt
Molla

In post 1453, Cobblerfone wrote:Oh yeah, I remember now, I was going to put a null catergory in there and to use a scale like other people but decided to only go with the notable reads.

This is the breadcrumb and the coverup explaination.

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:50 am

P.S. I like the way Viscera ignored my post where I debunk his "my partner was a total lurker"-point.

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:37 am

In post 2134, Javert wrote:
1.)
We are not No Lynching when it is possible this game has a Doctor. We have been over this already.

2.)
You claim you had an innocent result on Descent/glowball, and that you "crumbed" your result. If that's the case, please explain why your original explanation for your five town reads was:

Post 1452, Cobblerfone wrote:Junpei I think has been covered, he seems like he's honestly trying, Javert is similiar. You, I've covered, your bout with Kcda. Molla seems honest today.
I think I put Descent on their by mistake.

There is no way anybody would think you actually an innocent result on Descent after you made such a statement. Your "cover-up" explanation certainly does not make me think you had a result on Descent, either.

Looks to me like you're trying to take down a power role before you get lynched. If we have a Cop, I would not suggest counterclaiming at this point, because it looks to me like Cobblerfone is already laying his flowers beside his grave.

1.) The doctor will have to protect me. If there isn't a doctor the doctor can't save anyone. If there is a doctor I doubt the mafia and the doctor will both target me.

2.) The explanation makes no sense. How could he get on the town list that way? He would've been above "TOWN". If it were really accidental he would be on the scum list. Also, notice the "I think".

In post 2135, Javert wrote:
3.)
Also:

In post 1504, Cobblerfone wrote:Descent was horribly inactive, but I'm getting town-vibes from Glowball's posts.
I have a tentative townread on him.

Why only have a "tentative" town read on somebody you supposedly 100% know is Town?

4.)
Why did you choose to investigate Descent on Night One?

3.) Because there's no inthread explanation for a solid townread.

4.) Descent was inactive. If he were scum I thought it'd be unlikely for him to be caught soon, and if he were town I'd figure scum would never nightkill him and if I ever had to reveal him at least I'd be forcing them to kill a vegetable.

----
I don't see how Javert can't be scum now to be honest. I'm up for his lynch or a no-lynch.

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:07 am

But you have a chance of knowing half the setup. I'll admit if I live I'm not completely confirmed, but the chance of knowing half the setup and preventing the mafia from coasting on a doc-claim later on/being able to trust a doc-claim completely is the best thing to do now. And if I am the cop and there's a ninja I'm like you said, the only chance of finding the mafia, so you can see why

I

would be suspicious of you.

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:39 am

Oh yeah, to avoid confusion for the possible Watcher, the possible Tracker shouldn't target me.

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:43 am

Also, your latest position doesn't match up with your reason for hopping on my wagon:

In post 2090, Javert wrote:
Unvote: glowball / Descent, Vote: Cobblerfone
.

I have been avoiding posting in this game because I am not interested
in the slightest
in the most recent pages. They are boring, and I don't find anyone as 'convincing' as they seem to think they are.

But here's the important part. This game is on
page 84
and it is only
Day Two
. And it needs to stop.

I heartily suggest everybody just move along and start compromising. I vastly prefer to vote BBMolla or glowball / Descent over Cobblerfone, but this day is going nowhere and has been going nowhere for a long while.

Here it's almost like you're begrudgingly voting me, but now that I've claimed cop you don't even want to try my idea to see what happens.

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:59 am

In post 2168, VisceraEyes wrote:Because cops don't play scummy. Cops play lurky.

I have two games as cop off-site if you want to compare (though in those I found scum in the first possible night and got lynched immediately afterward, so it's kind of different). Though honestly I have no idea why I would want to lurk. Yeah it lowers my chance of being killed, but it also lowers my effectiveness in the day-game. And it's boring.

It doesn't look like anyone wants no-lynch or Javert-lynch.

VOTE: BBmolla

The problem with the tracker targeting me is that it doesn't confirm my alignment. If he sees me go somewhere and nobody dies, it only proves I'm either the Cop or the Roleblocker. I say, watcher targets me tonight, and if I don't die the tracker can target me the next night as well.

@Mod: Let's say a power role like doctor or cop is roleblocked: Will the Tracker/Watcher see that they went anywhere?

My thinking for my breadcrumb was: I put him at the top of the town list despite him not posting much at all. If I were to be nightkilled and people started looking for "Well who did he target N1?" I figured people would be able to see it was Descent. It wasn't elaborate, but I didn't want to risk too much for a lurker-townie.

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:15 am

@Viscera:

Why no comment on my proof that Cymru wasn't a lurker on D1?

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:22 am

In post 2084, Cobblerfone wrote:
In post 2083, Junpei wrote:1. I don't believe that you just forgot

2. How did he contradict himself? Seems like you were the one who contradicted yourself.

3. Well if I"m about to make a proclamation such as "never seen lurking scum", I would have to be certain about it, or close to certain.

1. I'm so tired of this point I decided to look it up to see if it's even correct. During D1 in that game posted at least once every day, while frequently skipping one day. The longest he went without posting was four days, which happened once.

2. Yes, I acknowledged that, he still contradicts himself with point ten.

3. I don't even need a three.

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:31 am

In post 2179, VisceraEyes wrote:I didn't say inactive, I said lurky. You commented on it yourself in that game Cobbler, stop trying to misrepresent my case and just die please.

We're dealing with two definitions here: The normal internet definition of "lurking" which I used in that game. And the mafia definition of "lurking" which is "not posting" which since it was a question from another player, I assumed that's what was meant.

In post 2180, Hikari Link wrote:
In post 2178, Cobblerfone wrote:
In post 2084, Cobblerfone wrote:
In post 2083, Junpei wrote:1. I don't believe that you just forgot

2. How did he contradict himself? Seems like you were the one who contradicted yourself.

3. Well if I"m about to make a proclamation such as "never seen lurking scum", I would have to be certain about it, or close to certain.

1. I'm so tired of this point I decided to look it up to see if it's even correct. During D1 in that game posted at least once every day, while frequently skipping one day. The longest he went without posting was four days, which happened once.

2. Yes, I acknowledged that, he still contradicts himself with point ten.

3. I don't even need a three.

That doesn't seem like proof. You are telling us only how much he posted, not what he posted. Was he active lurking?

The question that I answered in this game where the whole controversy comes from didn't specify "active lurking".

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:29 pm

Before I log off for the night I just want to make sure we're all agreed:

N2; Tonight

Doctor: Targets me
Watcher: Targets me
Tracker: Targets somebody else

N3; If I'm still alive

Doctor: Decides for themselves
Watcher: Decides for themselves
Tracker: Decides for themselves

Cobblerfone · Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:23 pm

In post 2202, Empking wrote:
In post 2200, Junpei wrote:
In post 2199, Empking wrote:Tracker should be off him. Doctor off him too.

"do this guys, trust me~~"

No, that ship has sailed before the game started, unless you have a good reason for this, no.

Why do [/i]I[/i] need a good reason. Shouldn't you support it just because its the best thing?

Tracker: Pointless. Cobbler will die sooner or later.
Doctor: Messes up any Watcher results. No need to keep a roleblocked Cop alive who has so many people calling for his blood.

Empking, does your faction have a ninja?

Cobblerfone · Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:51 am

In post 2237, Descent wrote:Okay, doing a read through still, because you people have posted way toooooo much.

Anyway someone can give me a quick run down of what has happened that has been important to the town so that I don't really miss anything.

I'm Cop, you're confirmed-innocent all other power-roles are targeting me so the Watcher can know who is what and can catch fake-claims.

Cobblerfone · Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:54 pm

In post 2250, VisceraEyes wrote:Because I don't believe his claim for a second. Like, why would he just claim cop out of the blue? And unbidden? He said he would claim when someone asked him to. And why would he play like a scummy piece of shit? Cops are more use to town NOT claimed, why would he act scummy ALL GAME knowing that he's a cop?
Spoiler: Hint
He's not

Like I said, I'm more than willing to lynch Kcda, but only if I'm totally convinced that I'm not going to be able to get Cobbler lynched...and I'm not, because he's the scummiest player in the game (with Kcda being a close second) claim or no.

Because acting scummy is a conscious choice. Or even a solid, definable, thing.

In post 2264, singersigner wrote:Can everyone other than VE explain why they're still voting for Copper?

I'm fully prepared to lynch Copper tomorrow if the plan doesn't pan out like we're hoping. If he's scum, he's gunna have to think of a hell of a proper way to cover his tracks with this one.

Can we lynch Kcdaspot now??

Preview Edit:
Oh...woo!

I approve of this nickname in all instances in which I am an outed cop.

Cobblerfone · Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:20 am

In post 2296, killerjester wrote:
In post 2294, VisceraEyes wrote:Why do you deflect the question KJ?

There are 4 scum.

But my top 5 are BBmolla, singer, zMM, projectmatt, and Scumhunter.

Why zMM

and

projectmatt?

Cobblerfone · Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:54 am

[quote="In post 2310Cobblerfone has exhibited scummy behavior all game. Will YOU vote for him if not Kcda? Be careful how you answer.

To be honest, I believe he's scum so thoroughly I'd stake my life on it.

Remembering

how he played in the last game we were in together

, there's literally no way he's town. Absolutely no way. Cobblerfone is scum. Kcda I'm less sure of, but I'd vote for him in a heartbeat to save us from mislynch. Even if I had to vote BB I probably would, but I'd prefer not to, as I've stated. Do you find BB to be scummy?[/quote]

1) I think it'd be hilarious if you were nightkilled/lynched then.
2) I was a replacing VT in that game, I'm an /in-from-the-begining-cop in this one. With a couple more games of experience inbetween.

In post 2316, killerjester wrote:
In post 2297, Cobblerfone wrote:Why zMM
and
projectmatt?

They're simply both in my top 5 scumreads. I'm fairly certain one, if not both of them, are scum.

So you believe it's likely that Muffinman is bussing Projectmatt?

Cobblerfone · Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:47 am

In post 2320, Kcdaspot wrote:
In post 1968, Kcdaspot wrote:Whisper: 5 town 2 null 1 scum.

that's it. He couldn't let it marinate He had to post that. PAGE 2.

you see the problem in that right? do i have to explain myself again?

Let me expand on this once more.

Instead of letting the game go on. allowing more people to post and getting a better picture Molla Posts reads. like detailed reads as if thats how he's gonna commit. Why so early in the game? Why did he not wait?
What would be the town purpose of putting that list so soon when it's so early?
There is no way I can justify it.

How I see it he jumped the gun. Not as town but as scum. He wanted to be seen as town so badly that he wanted to post something like that to gain the town's confidence early on.

Otherwise: why would he not wait to get a clearer picture? Why not wait until all have posted so that he has GOOD reads to commit to? I can not see it any other way.

He was trying to SEEM town. This makes him scum.

This is what I thought was bad about Maru and he flipped town. Why use evidence that is proven null-town ingame? And it doesn't even apply because Molla says he was asked for them. (And I'll check this.)

Cobblerfone · Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:02 am

Link did not ask for his first set of reads. Maruchan did ask for his thoughts though.

In post 127, Hikari Link wrote:
...
WALL TRIMMED
...

BBmolla wrote:
Maruchan wrote:
BBmolla
- You come in, with 2 full pages already down. Answer some RQS that was buried way down on page 2, meaning you obviously at least MILDLY read through the game. Complain saying the game is going fast (Read: lots of content), but tell us you don't have any thoughts yet? This yells lurky mc lurkalot to me. "Hey guys, let me answer the RQS that I obviously noticed meaning I HAVE read the thread, then say I have no thought on the thread so far, due to there being to much info in the thread." -goes back to his little hole. Not even an RVS to try to see how people react to a vote from you?
null-scum

Glad I wasn't ignored, was going to see how long till someone would mention my one post.

I don't have any thoughts as of writing this sentence. I'm rereading. D1 discussions are rather nonsensical until someone slips up. And then 90% of the time it's a ML anyway.
I don't like to participate in RVS, I think it's bogus.
I answer questions because I prefer them to random votes, although all in all I don't think responses to questions are all that different regardless of alignment.

PM is probably scum. The degree of seriousness was immediate and I find this tends to come off of scum more than townmembers. I've never played anything with him, so I'd need to compare his "tone" to others games. Eye on him. Not completely sure.

KCDA seems town for now. Town points for the early FoSes, actively calling people out like that without fear generally is town.

Hip gives no reasons for his "town reads". Nothing else really of interest yet, although he's pleasant and gives off a bit of a townie feel.

Maru is probably town. For the analysis. Subject to change.

Link is probtown. Responses seem legit.

Cobbler reads town to me.

Ray may seem anti town, but I'm pretty sure he always gives off that feel, having played a game with him. Still, worth to keep an eye on.

Don is null.

Honestly just waiting for this phase to end. I'll throw up a vote when I see fit.

Gonna have to disagree on the hiplop point, because I don't trust people with no reasoning behind their posts. Not sure I approve of the claim that your lurking was reaction fishing, but the rest of your post reads fairly town. Any suspicions so far now?

...
WALL TRIMMED
...

I did find this though. It sounds like scum-to-scum. If Molla flips scum, Link gets scummier,I think. Otherwise, probably town.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:48 pm

In post 2418, VisceraEyes wrote:Also, I'd like everyone to note that Cobbler has been lurking HARD since Kcda rejoined the party. No comments from the claimed cop who's likely to die tonight if he's really the cop? Nothing?

PEdit:
lmao in his pants. It was information. Just because someone doesn't lolwut every post like you doesn't mean they're scum Kc, try again.

I can't post reads without tipping off the mafia who I might target. The only thing I can think to say is Muffinman being on multiple mislynching wagon looks bad, especially for him. So if Kcda flips town, I'd be more weary of him, unless Molla is also town (since it'd be a choice between town and town). That's it though.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:52 pm

They might ignore me otherwise, which could make me paranoid. Or if they didn't it could theoretically make the town paranoid if I posted reads. Besides, it's the end of the day. There's no way Kc or Molla aren't being lynched.

Cobblerfone · Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:03 pm

Nothing's really changed anyway. KJ and Junpei still seem off but probably town. Kcda got kind of null but he's gut-town. Molla is null but if he's scum it'd be too good to be true with everything. VE might've gotten townier, but he was obvtown to me when he was scum so I'm still suspicious.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:58 am

In post 2431, VisceraEyes wrote:I like how you're only thinking up to today's lynch in terms of finding scum, but thinking about your night-actions at the same time.

What does this mean? I thought I knew what you meant but this line puzzles me.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:50 am

In post 2451, killerjester wrote:
In post 2449, singersigner wrote:Seriously. He was at L-1 and you decide to switch to someone at L-4?

Nope. Kcda was L-2 and BBmolla was at L-3. Now it's quite the opposite, which is
directly
in line with his read that BBmolla is scummier. But thanks for trying to misrepresent him. Scumhunter, wanna jump on this BBmolla wagon now?

Currently:
BBmolla L-2
Kcda L-3

KJ/Kcda/Javert/fourth?

VOTE: Kcdaspot

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:53 am

In post 2451, killerjester wrote:
Scumhunter, wanna jump on this BBmolla wagon now?

Scumhunter = 4th?

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:04 am

Idea

If KJ/Javert is the tracker,

Don't

target me. And if Kcda is scum, scumhunter can't track me either. Anyone else can track me. If you are a doctor you may target me regardless, obviously.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:06 am

There should be no disagreement with this. KJ was with me saying the tracker targeting the cop could be confusing, and Javert said he wasn't going to listen to plans if he was a PR anyway.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:13 am

It's so if they're mafia and are seen by the watcher they can't fakeclaim tracker, in case they don't have a ninja and fakeclaim tracker while claiming it was a ninja that killed me.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:00 pm

In post 2480, Scumhunter wrote:Cobbler, if I were a tracker, I'd be tracking you 100% regardless of what you say. The benefit of potentially catching you out in a lie far outweighs the potential downfall of added suspicion upon oneself as tracker in the unlikely, very specific scenario of theoretical watcher + theoretical ninja both being on you. Not to mention that with only one scum sending in the kill potentially effectively 0 with ninja there is really no better use for tracker than to track a claimed cop at this stage.

But. If I'm mafia and the tracker is going on me, then what prevents me from saying I was blocked while some goon that knows that they are most likely not going to be tracked from killing instead?

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:03 pm

And assuming I am mafia, why wouldn't I play it safe that way? Granted, if Kcda is the roleblocker (which I doubt considering I believe he's either been bussed or is town) then I could see this as being some kind of orchestration. And if he does flip roleblocker you can target me. Otherwise, no.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:11 pm

In post 2486, Scumhunter wrote:Cobbler, what I don't get here is why you don't want someone to track you to confirm your claim? If I'm town pr I want my claim to be validated by a confirming report, particularly so when I've been highly suspected. Unless of course, no tracker report can validate your fake claim...

It only applies to you if Kcda flips mafia goon. If he flips town or maf-PR track me to your heart's content.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:26 pm

In post 2488, Junpei wrote:
In post 2487, Cobblerfone wrote:
In post 2486, Scumhunter wrote:Cobbler, what I don't get here is why you don't want someone to track you to confirm your claim? If I'm town pr I want my claim to be validated by a confirming report, particularly so when I've been highly suspected. Unless of course, no tracker report can validate your fake claim...

It only applies to you if Kcda flips mafia goon. If he flips town or maf-PR track me to your heart's content.

That did not answer the question.

You seem like scum pushing for a terrible idea.

Because it's obvious to me. I don't know who's the tracker. Therefore, I can't fakeclaim a target if I were mafia since it's only 3/some number of people that wouldn't target me as tracker.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:40 pm

In post 2490, Junpei wrote:Cobbler, stop pretending to be overly selfish.

If you are town, look through a town in general mindset, not a 'I'M COBBLER AND IM COP" mindset.

Tracker goes on you, no questions asked.

Why? Again the only reason tracker is going on me is so I can't fakeclaim I went somewhere when I didn't or that I didn't go somewhere if I did. What I'm proprosing does the exact same thing. And if Kcda flips either scum-PR anyone can target me as tracker.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:45 pm

How does it not make sense? If I were mafia and if there's a tracker there's

still

a larger chance of the tracker being among the people I am NOT barring from tracking me.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:53 pm

They don't have any idea of the setup anyway. And they know that depending on the circumstances the tracker is amongst those three anyway.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:01 pm

In post 2497, Hikari Link wrote:
In post 2496, Cobblerfone wrote:They don't have any idea of the setup anyway. And they know that depending on the circumstances the tracker is amongst those three anyway.

But if the Tracker and Doctor are on you for sure and we have a Watcher, then nobody but the people who target you tonight can claim Tracker or Doctor in the future.

True. But in that case, there's a doctor, and the tracker will be allowed to target me after that. My plan is in case there isn't a doctor.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:10 pm

In post 2499, Junpei wrote:
In post 2498, Cobblerfone wrote:
In post 2497, Hikari Link wrote:
In post 2496, Cobblerfone wrote:They don't have any idea of the setup anyway. And they know that depending on the circumstances the tracker is amongst those three anyway.

But if the Tracker and Doctor are on you for sure and we have a Watcher, then nobody but the people who target you tonight can claim Tracker or Doctor in the future.

True. But in that case, there's a doctor, and the tracker will be allowed to target me after that. My plan is in case there isn't a doctor.

Your plan doesn't make sense even then.

Just concede to what is obviously right (our plan) and stop trying to push for a horrible idea post-lynch. You are being very scummy

Why doesn't it make sense? What pro-town thing does it prevent versus what anti-town thing does it prevent? If all three are scum it prevents them from killing me unless they have a ninja. In which case the watcher might know who the tracker is.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:16 pm

In post 2501, Junpei wrote:So your plan requires the following to be effective:

1) All 3 to be scum

2) The fourth scum not willing to kill (lol)

3) no ninja

Yeah, it's an awful plan.

So... You know 100% Kcda is town then?

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:18 pm

In post 2502, VisceraEyes wrote:I'm not going to presume to tell the PRs what to do myself...only humbly request that the Doctor consider adding me to his randomizer one or two times if Kc flips scum, and if Cobbler is looking too scummy to be real...based on my case against Cobbler and his connections with Kc.

Oh my goodness. Really?

Really

? I'm sorry how did you expect this post to be read? I'm assuming it wasn't supposed to be seen as scum trying to get the doctor off of me so your team can both block and attempt to kill me in the same night?

Forget my plan then.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:20 pm

In post 2504, Junpei wrote:
In post 2503, Cobblerfone wrote:
In post 2501, Junpei wrote:So your plan requires the following to be effective:

1) All 3 to be scum

2) The fourth scum not willing to kill (lol)

3) no ninja

Yeah, it's an awful plan.

So... You know 100% Kcda is town then?

So... you know 100% kcda is mafia then?

No. That's why scumhunter was only barred from tracking me if Kcda flipped goon.

Cobblerfone · Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:24 pm

In post 2508, VisceraEyes wrote:Honestly, I don't give a SHIT how you read my post Cobbler. You're scum.

@Junpei
K. Just a suggestion.

Do you really have to curse

every

time you call me scum?