ASOIAF: Test of Faith Mafia (Game Over!)

[Thor665]

@Magua - why aren't you voting? Aren't you some hard case who's gonna whomp me in a brawl or something?

[Thor665]

You're expecting brilliance from Nexus that will affect your vote?

Benmage is an anomaly - but if he's cult than all of his 'yo, I'm hunting SCUM, not cult, I catch the scumz, yo!' business is...ballsy considering there's still a scum team with a kill out there and he's been listed as a CR candidate, yeah? I could see him as regular scum, but if cult...woosh.

[Thor665]

Yay, Nexus, potential forward movement.

[Thor665]

Gut.

Probably if I had to put it into words It would come out as 'lurking for advantage and to be forgotten'
CES at least seems to say the occasional strong opinion that is questionable, I feel like he's more out there. Nexus is lurktastic, and something is up with that.

[Thor665]

Yet you push the Nexus wagon as vehemently as you possibly can despite it being based on things that aren't even all that scummy in and of themselves. While I appreciate the use of gut to get stuff happening. Not helping. A CES vote would help though.

So you're saying Nexus=town?

[Thor665]

@Spy - aren't you still voting Benmage? Blood and fire times require you to be on the blood and fire wagon, yeah?

Thor is just acting like Thor, so I don't really know.

I've got a "just acting like Thor" meta and it's unreadable? I'd sort of hoped I always came across as town...

@LB - Hey, I agree with that conclusion.

[Thor665]

@Spy - why would LB be recruit N2? And your theory would require Benny to be recruit first, yeah.
Thoughts?

[Thor665]

Unvote: Nexus
Vote: Cogito Ergo Sum

This town needs electrodes on it's ballsacks.

[Thor665]

Your edit left me with bad grammar, but I do not disagree with the core message.

[Thor665]

Yeah, my bad, but not my issue; Using 'it' as the pronoun for a human being is.

[Thor665]

CES - So you're not CR because you haven't lynched Benmage or Nexus and are trying to lynch the difficult target of Hindu?

Magua - he.

LB - so if it's not Hindu or CES why isn't it Nexus?

[Thor665]

CES - So you're not CR because you haven't lynched Benmage or Nexus and are trying to lynch the difficult target of Hindu?

I also pushed against Maguavig and Magualynch yesterday, but yes, basically.

I like Magua as much as the next guy - but how does that make you not CR exactly? We don't know what Magua is so...

My big problem with this is that I simply do not see Hinduragi as a cult recruiter who goes and hammers hasdgfas -- *regardless* of whether he believed Benmage's claim or not.

This.

[Thor665]

Isn't the logic that Emp is cult regardless of Ben's alignment?

[Thor665]

@Magua - Watcher is a ballsy fakeclaim, especially in a three faction setup. Thoughts?

[Thor665]

@Locke - you called Emp obv. town, he's now about to be lynched as you do nothing. How about you vote CES, I don't think you called CES town, yeah? Who was it you accussed of not having direction today? <--oh, snap, another question. Seriously now, do something.

@Magua/Nexus - bwuh?

[Thor665]

Oh, and I skipped the last 2 pages and am gone all Friday. I'm emotionally comfortable with this.

[Thor665]

Deuced if I know.

I want Nexus, CES, and Locke dead, if I could triple day kill they would be my three guaranteed.
I've got way too many town reads considering the number of cult and scum still left, but since two people I felt were scuzzy yesterday were both scuzzy I see no read to get too wifom on that bullhookey yet. I'm not smart enough to clarify scum/cult reads but will at least say I think CES or Nexus are the CR.

[Thor665]

Gotta be a recruited Vig or something, yeah? No way LB was a pro town kill effort.

[Thor665]

@Emp - I hear you talking but have no idea what you're saying. You're saying the CR has to be one of the Seven Priest classes? Aren't the cult fluffed out as some alternate religion entirely?

[Thor665]

We have a claimed SK and a claimed scum - why would we want to no lynch?

[Thor665]

@Espeo - recruit immune, y/n?

@Emp - fire, go find one.

[Thor665]

@Magua - it was a joke plan, I already made him explain it, we're ignoring Emp now.

[Thor665]

@Magua/Locke - why do you not believe the SK claim? All your discussion at the moment seems to take for granted he is cult, is there something I should know?

[Thor665]

Could you link me to the posts you're using to clear you/Nexus from CES?

[Thor665]

Okay, I'm behind that.

So we lynch Emp.
We tell scum to shoot Hind.
If Hind is scum we're directing them to Espeo or Spy? That seems tenable.

Vote: Empking

[Thor665]

Unvote: Empking

Sure.

[Thor665]

Though he'd basically lost by being tracked to a kill, yeah? Town/Scum/Cult whichever faction he wasn't part of he was now a threat to both of the others.

EBWOP

Locke Lamora (scum)
Thor665 (town)
Empking (scum)
Magua (town)
Nexus (cult/scum)
SpyreX (town/cult?)
Hinduragi (CR)
Espeonage (anti-town, cult?)

Would be my predictions.
Espeo is actually pretty clearly not scum, though maybe cult.
I'm going with you as town as the only player who seems to actually give a fig.
Empking's tracks suggest a clear for Spy on the scum axis.
Nexus is cult scum simply because there really ought to be another scum, and I don't think he's town in any way - though he would probably be one of my last desires for lynch presuming Hind is CR.

[Thor665]

If Espeo is cult he would have shot Spyrex - ergo Espeo is not cult.
Espeo is not scum unless this is a really weird bus from Emp.
Therefore Espeo is SK.
Anyone see any mistakes?
This means town has already lost, yeah? This is balls.

[Thor665]

Locke Lamora (scum)
Thor665 (town)
Empking (scum)
Magua (town)
Nexus (scum)
SpyreX (town/cult?)
Hinduragi (CR)
Espeonage (SK)

This is modified thoughts.

Below is the list with "not CRs"

Locke Lamora (scum) - not CR due to Cow.
Thor665 (town) - not CR due to Cow
Empking (scum) - not CR due to Scum
Magua (town) - not CR due to track
Nexus (scum) - not CR due to track
SpyreX (town/cult?)
Hinduragi (CR)
Espeonage (SK) - not CR due to SK

So it's Hind or Spy unless it's two and they're odd/even but this is getting headache potential. Lack of Spy kill by Espeo either proves Espeo is SK or proves Spy is cult and so is Espeo - yeah?

[Thor665]

@Nexus - you hopped on that one quick - nothing else was worth commenting on? Clearly you're reading along.

[Thor665]

@Hindu - you're voting the same way a self confessed scum is voting - what does this tell you?

[Thor665]

Even if Esp is Cult (or Sk, or whatever the fug), Hidu's vote only makes sense if Hindu is scum or is cult with a kill.

[Thor665]

I'm not sure whether you're an idiot or I am - I'll choose to accept this as a 'not town' claim though. Not that I needed much convincing.

And, yeah, Thor was obv. recruit since Day 4, no ifs ands or buts about it. I've been in such a super obvious and strong position cult definitely wanted me to be one of their recruits.

[Thor665]

But if he's member of cult team why is Spy alive? That's the part meting my noggin. LB was a recruit, not a kill, Spy was a kill not a recruit - derpt-doo, yeah?

[Thor665]

Yes, I have. To quote Conan "enough talk"

Vote: Empking

We're lynching scum - because if we don't lynch scum we (and those pretending to be we) lose the game. It's up to scum to hit the recruiter, and they have inside information we don't that can effect the suspect pool even more now. Unless we're seriously expecting some super awesome revelation I say it's time to make them try to puzzle out their best shot.

[Thor665]

Hindu.

[Thor665]

Yes - if he was cult he would kill the claimed uncultable. The only way he's cult is if SpySpy is also cult.

[Thor665]

So what's your theory on no extra kill N1, N2, N3, N4, as well as the daykill on D4?

That there's probably truth to the weird limited kill nature of his SKness.
I agree the kill thing is weird - but I can't conceive of cult killing LB, you'd want to recruit LB. I'd see Espeo as more likely to be scum than cult - but that's something scum actually has an inside track for when deciding their kills, and we already know who we have to lynch anyway.

[Thor665]

If he recruited the Warrior why would he be targeting kill shots?

[Thor665]

If the Warrior is who would have the kill ability - if Espeo is the Warrior than he's not CR.
If he recruited Warrior than he shouldn't be killing, the Warrior should.

[Thor665]

Okay, I can see the drive there;

But the reverse is - he's a Recruiter with NK ability and a Daykill ability (or recruited Daykill, I suppose) who decided not to mess with Spyrex at all? How does that make any sense? It seems less bizarre to just be - yeah, cult didn't get fakeclaims.

[Thor665]

And, my god, to be an SK who is given *3* kills in a 24-player game. No.

Yeah, this is weird as frell.
Could he just be scum and this is some sort of weird distancing with Emp? That might almost make sense if we get down to near scum majority again and everyone's like - gotta lynch scum, who can we rule out - ah, Espeo totally wasn't scum because yadda, yadda, hey. Let's lynch 'Player X'

That would at least be a potential advancing of a wincon via the claim - though whoever did the other kill, if not scum, would know they're lying. Which then suggests cult had a kill and killed CES, which is even worse than cult killing LB.



Did Bilbo ever suggest his blocks? Because that's the only way LB would have evaded a recruit attempt, and consequently would be the only reason Cult might have wanted to kill him (thinking him scum and unrecruitible), yeah? Looking at Bilbo's iso I got nothing from his end of Day stuff.

But *if* cult tried to recruit LB Night 2
and *if* Bilbo blocked the recruiter
and *if* cult never put two and two together
*then* it could make sense for cult to shoot LB instead of Spyrex...no sir, I don't like it. If you want to go down that road than isn't Spy obvious recruiter and Espeo schmuck recruit?

[Thor665]

@Emp - do you guys have a roleblocker, or are they all goons besides you?

[Thor665]

Well, none of them, but you theoretically want town's help in sussing out a recruiter since you guys can't hit the broad side of a barn - if we know you have a roleblocker we can help group think towards the solution.

If Espeo is mafia you should just tell us though, because than we'll totally lynch him and not you.

[Thor665]

[Thor665]

I'm cult because I know we're relying on scum to kill cult? Derp much?

[Thor665]

Oh, wait, it's because I think you're CR and according to your town case on yourself (in toto) "everyone should know it's not you"

[Thor665]

You seriously think I "jumped the gun" on putting in my input or hearing other people's input?
Sure - keep selling.

[Thor665]

Oh, and if me saying 'let mafia sort it out' makes me obv. cult, than a week earlier when I unvoted because Magua wanted to talk more made me obv. maf/town, amirite? Man, this system is easy to use.

[Thor665]

Wouldn't esp be confirmed not cult via lack of any kills other than scum and lack of kill on you?

I agree Nexus is prob. scum.

[Thor665]

Espeonage = obv. SK
I thought Locke was scum yesterday and said as much when you asked then. I still hold the read.

[Thor665]

By having cult cult me tonight and winning with them.

[Thor665]

So let's see.

Nexus and Locke are prob scum.
Spy is cult or town.
Espeo is SK
Magua is cult.

So I'm down for lynching either the SK or one of the scum bags.
If cult open declares themselves we can lynch from the non claimed.
Then please cult me tonight.
Scum, please don't kill me tonight - you still need to get the CR first, killing me will just put you into kingmaker with SK or Spy, or lose it for you if Spy is CR.

That sounds like a good plan.

[Thor665]

I want someone to declare cult - then I'll probably happily sheep them.

[Thor665]

You're cult.

[Thor665]

You're in one of two situations:
Mafia shoots SpyreX: It's now you + me (town) vs Espeonage (SK) vs Nexus (mafia)
Mafia shoots me: It's now you + SpyreX (cult) vs Espeonage (SK) vs Nexus (mafia).

How do you win?

By being in the second setup and lynching Nexus.
Espeo has no kills left so then we lynch him and CUlt wins and I win - derpy doo.
Does that excite you for my answer?

By being in the first setup - it will actually be Thor (town) Magua (cult) Espeo (SK) and Nexus (mafia)
At that point we lynch Nexus and then no matter who we lynch I lose.

So, as I said, I win by becoming cult.

[Thor665]

Vote: Locke Lamora

Six of one, half a dozen of another.

I'm just going to presume Magus is going (pssst, cult, *wink*) and go with that.

[Thor665]

Do you have some cult related info I should know?

His kill makes no sense as cult.
His "bus" from Emp makes no sense as scum.
His claim of SK makes no sense as town.
He does make sense as an SK with limited kills, as silly as that sounds.

[Thor665]

That he's an SK, as I believe.

[Thor665]

Misleading the scum shot onto SK and away from actual Cult Leader...though I'll admit I'm not sure which is actually the better shot for scum right now. Guess it depends on whether you have one or two buddies currently. Either way, for you, it's better to get SK dead than CR dead - no brainer.

[Thor665]

Other than the sarcasm, sure.

Though I'll add I never said whether or not I thought he was NK immune - I do think he does have some sort of limited kill situation though, otherwise he'd have been killing. That's not hard to figure out.

So if you don't want Espeo to be shot, but think he's cult, why should that tell me anything about you? That works just fine with you being cult and him as well, and at that point all you're doing is debating what flavor of scum he is which is meaningless to my situation if I want to win with cult - frankly it would help me if he was cult because I doubt scum are going to pop a shot at him regardless of if he is cult or SK.

[Thor665]

How does cult not win if Espeonage is limited kill SK?
I already outlined how that worked.

[Thor665]

You're in one of two situations:
Mafia shoots SpyreX: It's now you + me (town) vs Espeonage (SK) vs Nexus (mafia)
Mafia shoots me: It's now you + SpyreX (cult) vs Espeonage (SK) vs Nexus (mafia).

How do you win?

By being in the second setup and lynching Nexus.
Espeo has no kills left so then we lynch him and CUlt wins and I win - derpy doo.
Does that excite you for my answer?

By being in the first setup - it will actually be Thor (town) Magua (cult) Espeo (SK) and Nexus (mafia)
At that point we lynch Nexus and then no matter who we lynch I lose.

So, as I said, I win by becoming cult.

You're disagreeing with the setups you provided now?

[Thor665]

Because, Magua, seriously. I know you're cult, you have to be, everyone else is cult or mafia or SK already.

So, unless cult is stupider than hell you're cult right now.
If you're town than you should go with the reverse, know that I'm cult right now, and your way of winning is by becoming cult. So let's lynch a mafia, recruit my cute backside, and get me to a wincon.

[Thor665]

Oh. and if by some magic you really are town, than town's only chance of winning is lynching scum anyway so...wtf?

[Thor665]

Show me this hypothetical vote count you think that's going to occur tomorrow that leads to a cult win, under the assumption that Espeonage is a limited-kill SK who loses regardless of who is lynched in a 4-way endgame.

Kingmaker. And it's a hell of a lot larger chance than my current chance which is 'snowflake in hell'.
Show me the hypothetical where cult def. loses? They'll have two of needed 3 votes - and since Espeo can't win no matter what they can bribe him with 'at least it'll end the game faster' As soon as you're SK and are claiming with, like four days to go you're basically admitting you've lost.

Are you concerned about what Espeonage is going to say or who he's going to want lynched?

If Espeonage is cult, he knows who the scum are.

If Espeonage is cult and wants to claim that I care about what he says.
If he's not...well, I'm fine hearing it, but I don't see how it will really help.

I've already said I'm happy to sheep any claimed cult.
I have no idea why you want to sheep a claimed SK unless he claims cult first.

[Thor665]

Sooo looks like there's wacky cult hijinks since Esp pretty much just claimed cult with Thor.

Yeah, because a cult with me and kill power in it wouldn't kill a recruit immune town.

He didn't peg me as scum because I'm obv. not scum and am also obv. not cult and am the only player talking remote sense besides, maybe, the openly claimed SK - and that's gakked up!

[Thor665]

Does it make sense as town or mafia?

That's the thing that bugs me about both of your thoughts on Espeo - you keep making up wild and outlandish theories and tag on the "makes no sense" attribute as though it makes a difference - without noting that his play makes no sense whatsoever in any particular vein.

Also, I think his caveat *does* make sense as a limited kill SK who was recruit immune and definitely if he was also NK immune. Because Scum would be fine with a cult killing tool and he'd be immune from cult reprisals.

Also, none of this matters at all unless you want to claim he's scum.

[Thor665]

Because town Vigs are rarely NK immune - derp, he was saying he was town then.

[Thor665]

Hey, Locke, if you're not scum you should claim cult, then I'll sheep you. There is no way this ends badly.

[Thor665]

Hey Thor, I'm cult. We're lynching Nexus. You game?

Yes. It works out great as you or Nexus were my stated lynch desires of the day anyway.

[Thor665]

I don't believe that you're cult, Locke. You're scum.

We've already established that town's plot is to lynch cult today.
Nice to know you're my amazing, magically made it through, town buddy though - I knew it couldn't be Magua.

[Thor665]

Lynch scum today - whatevs.

[Thor665]

Locke is town. So is Thor. They may be cultists but they at least started town.

So...Locke is obv. town and not scum because he asked me if I'd be willing to switch to Nexus without actually voting Nexus?
I mean, I do see some of the vote flow on the 'hey, lynching a buddy, lawl' moment, but without action it means about as much as a valid tell as me going 'I'm town, guys, no, for realz!'
Am I missing something else that is making this clearer?

Also, what makes you so sure on the Magua/Spy situation? "Mutual bus appeal to fake scum to kill the other one" tell?

[Thor665]

@Esp - and wait a minute, are you calling Locke town (or started as town) because he wanted to bus the Recruiter?

[Thor665]

@Magua - wanna switch to Nexus - I'll sheep that, and then you can get over your pet theory that I'm scum with him...because I'm the last town - derp, derp.

[Thor665]

But if your pet theory is correct a Nexus hammer makes you lose - so...what am I missing?

[Thor665]

Okay, I can live with that because we're sheeping cult anyway

[Thor665]

Locke totally just claimed scum/cult partners with Nexus though.
Boo-yah! Thor is right again! I just need to figure out how to get a scary rep so more people sheep me.

[Thor665]

I'm going to presume you're dicking with my head, and I hate you for it.

[Thor665]

Isn't an Espeonage lynch only a good idea if he is Mafia? Or are you claiming him as the obv. buddy? If he's obv. buddy then...wtf on his role.
Also - cult can't recruit normally or they are dorkhats because they didn't recruit me.

So threats are;

Mafia
SK?
Cult

SK is a big threat if he can kill, but if he can kill than really we're already in a kingmaker between him and scum. If he can't kill then basically we're setting him up for a kingmaker between cult and scum with him as the maker.
Also, Magua - if you're claiming SPy as town and you as town than...what, Espeonage recruiter who hasn't recruited anyone? Seriously?

[Thor665]

Hey Espeo, I'm here and posting while you have a vote on Spy.
Feel free to move your reaction test along.

[Thor665]

Vote: Espeonage

Espeo is "testing" with me and Spyrex.
Spyrex is defending him.
Magua is lynching him.
Nexus did a vote and unvote dance.
I'm down for lynching Esp or Nexus.

[Thor665]

Something had to be up when Espeo didn't start testing other people. I predict brilliance on this.
Now it's just a question of you/Magua for Cult...or no cult, or whatever the fug.

[Thor665]

Though if it's you/Magua scu then you owned my face, I'll admit.

[Thor665]

You sons of bastiches!
That debate like two(?) days ago between you guys and basically love sucking on Espeo had me sold there was no way you were aligned together.
I hate you all.
I guess I hate Nexus (Espeo?) for not recruiting me too.
Seriously, AGM over me? What the fug! Benmage was right, I *should* have been recruited.

[Thor665]

I'll withdraw the above but remain hateful of you then.
And if you're town, then Magua is Cult and only recruited one guy? Or Espeo was cult and only recruited one guy? Does not compute.

[Thor665]

How does that make sense?
While we're at it - how did you clear me from Esp partner possibilities. I was able to do it because I know my alignment, and I was able to do you for the defense after testing and the debates two days ago. How did you clear me via any logic?

[Thor665]

I'M NOT A RECRUIT!

Holy gawds, I've been "obv. recruit" for days and during that period I was one of the only people pushing a lynch on the only flipped cult thus far! I hate you and your 'obv. recruit iz Thor' case, and I hate Benmage for starting it.

[Thor665]

So remember when I said this and everyone jumped on me because Empking was obvtown? Yeah..

*spreads arms wide*

[Thor665]

Don't understand why they shot Espeonage the final Night instead of shooting anyone else and winning. Guess they were scared he was going to shoot them, going by SpyreX's posts.

Since I had seen someone "kill" when I came to kill Hinduragi we were convinced he was a regular SK with full kill power and recruitment protection.
So we thought we were heading into 2 cult/2 scum/1 SK lylo. If he didn't have kill protection we would then have won flat out, if he did have kill protection we figured (I figured) we could sweet talk him for the Kingmaker. Meanwhile, if he was NK immune and we killed cult then we would have been setting ourselves up for a lot of fail depending on his NKs - we really just wanted to know what we were dealing with...and were mostly frothing around in confused confusion at the time.

I'm at least happy I kept being weirded out because of all the town reads I was getting off you My Magua gut remains happy and accurate.

@Scum - I support release of our QT. (besides, it's mostly one post of me going 'coordinate for quickhammer?' and then three pages of SPyrex chanting how much I suck about once every five minutes till I showed up again

[Thor665]

Didn't expect that recruitment could be refused. That seems like a *really* bad idea, balance-wise, as you're almost always better off rejecting recruitment. Yeah, Andrius problem, but that's part of being in a cult-game.

Yeah, maybe just daytalk is the viable solution so people don't feel in the dark with their new evil buddies? When you join a cult game you're accepting that your wincon may change - any whining about that is sillysauce.

[Thor665]

MY ROLE PM TOLD ME I HAD TO HATE YOU.

I ALWAYS BELIEVE WHAT I READ!

DON'T WORRY, YOU CAN TRUST ME NEXT TIME, 4 REALZ!

[Thor665]

Wow, that might be one of the most epic WIFOMs ever.
I'm glad I was on the team it helped.

[Thor665]

A future Thor sig possibility;

When WIFOM goes wrong

Espeo: I thought Emp was town because I thought LB and CES were scum. Play make a bit more sense now.
Faraday: ...um, he literally claimed scum in the thread though. Like, he claimed scum.
Espeo: Was he scum though?

[Thor665]

Why not - everyone else does

[Thor665]

Don't be over harsh Spy. The LB, CES and AGM recruit choices made a lot of sense (so did the Magua or Thor choice - and I'll take it as a credit to me playing confused and frustrated that he picked the one more helpful to us) - the LB kill makes...some sense, especially if he figured LB as scum and I could see that making sense to someone who wasn't on the scum team like me (I mean, sure, LB looked obv. town from where I was sitting, but I was on the inside looking out).

The Hindu recruit seems to be the big wtf action to my mind - seems like a kill Spy or kill Empking would have been the smart play there.

That's the only action I think is really questionable for why he did that instead of something else.

[Thor665]

Well, that, and maybe he should have claimed cult to Magua...I dunno, that would have been a dicey play all over.

[Thor665]

Scum QT

Eh, no one is weighing in one way or another - and I think I was the only person who insulted anyone in the QT so; go to.

[Thor665]

Espeo also.

Though I think he out thought himself by Night 2.

[Thor665]

"I'm going to shoot Thor in the face the next chance I get.
Well of course he knew MoI was town- because he was scum the Smurf.
Its not because he's any better than us, he was just scum. "

"I Hope
Hope against all else
that Thor loses.
Then, at least he won't be able to shove a win in our faces. "

LOL Nothing but love Andy. Until you shoot me - then it's eternal hatred forevah!
Though I agree with Faraday's call, c'mon, even Benmage was admitting the wagon was terrible. I think the only thing I'd rub in faces was that, even with the inside track knowledge from the QT, I was still apparently playing lost town so well as to fool most of the Dead QT...not that...well...not that I have a habit of being lost town in endgames...definitely not...right?