Open 319: Jungle Republic - Day 5: Calamity *GAME OVER*

[Sky]

@Sky - fitz's insanity on me yesterday and pairing with DJ makes some sense for his seer claim - if he's a wolf why not claim a 'clear' on someone like DK who he oddly and blatantly defended? Why do you think he chose someone to 'clear' that was so derpy as regards his actions to them? Do you think he's scum who didn't look back to see if his claim would work, or what?

Of course I do. He didn't think much on this one. This could be believable if DJ hadn't been at L-1 yesterday. That confirms everything.

Thor, do you notice that shift in Sky's playstyle now that he has the advantage in this situation?

I've noticed a shift in mine. This decision has gone on for too long and has worn me out. You'd feel this way too if you'd already lost.

[Thor665]

Thor, do you notice that shift in Sky's playstyle now that he has the advantage in this situation?

Of course.

@Sky - so your belief is that fitz is just really dumb scum? Because, usually I note scum try to make their reads...y'know...work with their fakeclaim. I would tend to expect sloppiness a bit more from town - thoughts?

[sageamagoo]

Argh... schoolwork earned me a prod...

Sorry, I've been reading the thread but haven't had time to actually post.

Making a draft now...

[Shadowmod]

New page, new votecount, no changes, here you are:

DonJosh (0/4) - sageamagoo sageamagoo (0/4) - DonJosh Sky (2/4) - DeityKabuto , DonJosh , havingfitz , DeityKabuto , sageamagoo havingfitz (3/4) - Sky , DonJosh , DeityKabuto Not Voting (1/6): Thor665 With 6 Players alive it requires 4 Votes to lynch / 3 to nolynch. Deadline will be reached on Monday October 10th 2011, 6:00 p.m. Forum Time [UTC-6].

(expired on 2011-10-10 18:00:00)

till Day 3 Deadline

[havingfitz]

@fitz - explain the scum motivation step by step that allowed Sky to realize she should fakebreadcrumb when she did. What set her off that day, and what weakness to the validity of the breadcrumbs do you see? (sageamagoo - feel free to weigh in here if you'd like)

Also - could you explain this post and combine it with your plot of not claiming?
"I agree with the comments regarding the seer. Unless the seer has been very unlucky and has investigated The Tick and TheFool his or her information could either out a wolf if they've been successful or can at least clear one or two players as not being wolves which would narrow the field down. The objective today should be to eliminate wolves first. Obvious scum of any kind would be nice to lynch but preferably a wolf."

I feel this response is a bit rushed ass I want to get something posted but have not had time the last few days. Regarding Sky's motivation for breadcrumbing....once you brought the topic up it was out there for scum to consider. The motivation would be to have in his back pocket should he need to use it. It was so hidden it was not likely to be discovered if it wasn't needed. As for Sky in general...as I have stated previously...I had a town read on Sky most of the game (or at least he was overshadowed by others) so until his seer claim I had no idea he was a wolf. As for breadcrumbs in general...I tend not to do them. You stated you tend not to do them. I find them to be WIFOM and in a open set up...an easy means to back up a fakeclaim or draw out a real PR. My comments about the seer and DJ weren't breadcrumbs so much as they were a hint to town in case I was killed.

As for the post above...as I have mentioned. I was trying to not come across as a seer and not put too much suspicion on DJ. I knew he was a wolf but was not sure who his partner was. You were option 1 and CM was option 2. I had been focused on you since D2 so I was already committed and if you had been a wolf I can only hope my death would have pointed town towards you...and following my investigation of DJ and my subsequent comments about his possibly being linked to you...that DJ would have been revealed as well.

I should be around for most of the weekend so I should have more time for discussion.

[Thor665]

Why were CM and I the buddy wolves? Why not DK or sageamagoo?

[DeityKabuto]

Argh... schoolwork earned me a prod...

Sorry, I've been reading the thread but haven't had time to actually post.

Making a draft now...

It's okay. Thoughts on havingfitz recent post?

[havingfitz]

Why were CM and I the buddy wolves? Why not DK or sageamagoo?

BBmolla (aka sage) never really did anything to attract my attention so I didn't waste my time on that player. Similar to Sky and whisper. I had the three of them lumped as town IMM. DK was scummy/suspicious as usual but that's how he usually plays. And actually...he had made some posts that were out of character for him (ie good) earlier in the game. So lesson learned re: DK...if he does something pro-town he's scum.

Through process of elimination that didn't leave me with many more options for scum. D2 I was focused on finding scum of any variety and hoping for a wolf find at night. So when I focused on you D2 it was because I genuinely thought you were scum (mafia OR wolf). CM same thing only less than you. D3 after I had the wolf result on DJ was when I started to see what I thought were connections between the two of you and thought you could possibly be wolf as well. Since I had already been on you like white on rice D1 I didn't have anything to lose by continuing to press you. When that was going nowhere I went for option 2 (CM) and resigned myself to investigate you last night.

The only thing in my game that I feel has worked against me is not voting DJ when he was at L-1. As mentioned earlier...I had so much RL crap going on at that time it was all I could do to avoid prod/replacement and keep up my efforts towards you. In hindsight I was right towards you, you just weren't the optimal variety (wolf).

TL:DR - DK and sage never peaked my suspicion coupled with POE pointed towards you and CM....along with what I thought was genuinely poor/anti-town play.

Sky and DJ are wolves.

[Sky]

@Sky - so your belief is that fitz is just really dumb scum? Because, usually I note scum try to make their reads...y'know...work with their fakeclaim. I would tend to expect sloppiness a bit more from town - thoughts?

I feel like I'm restating here. I do not thing fitz is a really dumb wolf, only slightly. Yes, DJ was a bad choice for his fake claim, but it isn't the worst, he gave a mediocre case as to why he didn't actively pursue a DJ lynch. However, what he overlooked, and we all overlooked was the fact that DJ was at L-1 for a brief period of time, which is where the stupidity came in.

[Shadowmod]

Oh wolfcrap.... Technically I'd have to force replace DonJosh now... But I really don't want to do that at this stage of the game any more... I guess I'll just send him a another big fat oversized prod and hope that he'll post and not go from lurking straight into his V/LA...

(expired on 2011-10-10 18:00:00)

till Day 3 Deadline

[havingfitz]

I do not thing fitz is a really dumb wolf, only slightly. Yes, DJ was a bad choice for his fake claim, but it isn't the worst, he gave a mediocre case as to why he didn't actively pursue a DJ lynch. However, what he overlooked, and we all overlooked was the fact that DJ was at L-1 for a brief period of time, which is where the stupidity came in.

Or another scenario (aka fact in this case)..."fitz" could be telling the truth and DJ

is

a wolf and you are fakeclaiming seer. The L-1 situation could have been potentially handled differently but some other things that could have been handled differently might include:

Sky making his "authentic seer" breadcrumbs on D1 prior to getting prompted by Thor on....what was it...D3?
Fitz making his "fake seer" results not be so inconvenient (ie say DJ is town and attack sage leaving out the whole DJ at L-1 complication)
Fitz playing it safe and making his "fake seer" results reflect no controversy (ie no guilty results [sound familiar]).

Things are what they are. I think the lack of a smooth scenario gives more credence to my actions validity.

Also...DK...Sky seems to be growing more suspect in your mind based on your last few posts. If you genuinely feel that way and are not content to ride coat tails I would urge you to unvote me. All the wolves need for the win is Thor deciding my way. I don't see sage flipping since he is town and therefore knows I'm telling the truth. At least you should come to a decision you are sure of before you place your vote. If you have any doubt continue to flesh it out with Thor and/or me.

[havingfitz]

Post/Pre-edit...

your posts right before mine scared the crap out of me mod.

I thought Thor had hammered me and wolves had won.

Please do not post large modly post's like that during such a critical time.

[sageamagoo]

@fitz - explain the scum motivation step by step that allowed Sky to realize she should fakebreadcrumb when she did. What set her off that day, and what weakness to the validity of the breadcrumbs do you see? (sageamagoo - feel free to weigh in here if you'd like)

Also - could you explain this post and combine it with your plot of not claiming?
"I agree with the comments regarding the seer. Unless the seer has been very unlucky and has investigated The Tick and TheFool his or her information could either out a wolf if they've been successful or can at least clear one or two players as not being wolves which would narrow the field down. The objective today should be to eliminate wolves first. Obvious scum of any kind would be nice to lynch but preferably a wolf."

I feel this response is a bit rushed ass I want to get something posted but have not had time the last few days. Regarding Sky's motivation for breadcrumbing....once you brought the topic up it was out there for scum to consider. The motivation would be to have in his back pocket should he need to use it. It was so hidden it was not likely to be discovered if it wasn't needed. As for Sky in general...as I have stated previously...I had a town read on Sky most of the game (or at least he was overshadowed by others) so until his seer claim I had no idea he was a wolf. As for breadcrumbs in general...I tend not to do them. You stated you tend not to do them. I find them to be WIFOM and in a open set up...an easy means to back up a fakeclaim or draw out a real PR. My comments about the seer and DJ weren't breadcrumbs so much as they were a hint to town in case I was killed.

As for the post above...as I have mentioned. I was trying to not come across as a seer and not put too much suspicion on DJ. I knew he was a wolf but was not sure who his partner was. You were option 1 and CM was option 2. I had been focused on you since D2 so I was already committed and if you had been a wolf I can only hope my death would have pointed town towards you...and following my investigation of DJ and my subsequent comments about his possibly being linked to you...that DJ would have been revealed as well.

I should be around for most of the weekend so I should have more time for discussion.

Well, I can't add much besides the fact that in day 1 Sky looked fairly scummy and FightingShadow looked very town-oriented.

I'll answer Deity's 20 questions since he feels uncomfortable answering three questions, supposedly this is too fast of a rate. I still don't see the connection between Shadow and me. I can't personally speak for Shadow but I know I'm asking the questions I'm asking because I find Deity suspicious.

1. How many games have you played on MS?
Completed 2, replaced into 1. Currently playing one more.
2. On a scale of 1-10, how well would you consider yourself overall?
As a player? Oh I don't know. Probably like a 2. I'm fairly new to forum mafia.
3. How do you feel about policy lynching?
Don't know what it is.
4. Do you think that Ray will actually flip scum?
Quite possibly. Too early to tell. The wagon is stupid though.
5. List 3 Reasons you think Ray is scum or not, provide examples.
Jesus, the game is like a day in. I can't give reasons just yet. I don't know what he is.
6. How much have you actually contributed this game?
Odd question. Needs to be more specific. I'll give you an odd answer: 6 posts.
7. How much has anyone actually contributed this game?
Again, this question needs to be phrased differently. 130 posts.
8. Why do you think not answering questions is scummy?
Because you're hiding from a scumhunter (i.e. everyone) if you were town there would be no reason to hide.
9. Are you familiar with the current setup, have you played a Jungle Republic game before, if not, than do you have any questions?
Nope.
10. Have you heard the name "DK" or "DeityKabuto" before entering this game?
I was going to use the Donkey Kong reference, but it just got used. Sorry kid, I don't know you.
11. How do you feel about No-Lynching?
In this game, it could be quite a possibility. With the two factions of scum and all. Town isn't the majority for long.
12. Why do you see everyone as a sexless non-entity, that is a false statement, ya' know?
Dude....what?
13. Are you male or female?
Male
14. How many games have you won as Town?
On forum mafia, none
15. How good are you contributing to the Town?
I believe we are missing a preposition. I think I'm alright...
16. How many people in this game, and Who do you actually know here or are familiar with?
Missing another word. There are 12 people if that's what your asking. I know Shadow from the other game I'm playing.
17. Is English your first language?
Yessir.
18. Do you enjoy asking questions?
Yeah.
19. Do you enjoy answering questions?
Yeah.
20. How many questions have you answered so far and what is your capacity (limit) to how much you can actually answer?
In my life I have faced countless questions. In this game, well I'll go for the direct number and say 20.

If this was an attempt Deity to simulate how you felt when I asked my three questions, then it didn't work. I will answer all questions thrown at me, I can't guarantee you'll get the answer you're looking for.

As for the rate I asked them to you, I don't see what the issue is. It seems to me you post here quite frequently so I don't know why you would have a problem answering questions. If anything, you should enjoy answering questions because it gives you something to contribute.

Furthermore, you said you just enjoyed answering questions. There should be no issue. Honestly, you're confusing the hell out of me. You are also most recently dodging that question about slinging accusations.

I know I don't have much evidence, but this hell of a lot better than my random vote. It just seems that Deity got a bit too defensive when asked a few questions.

Unvote: CMPunk
Vote: DeityKabuto

I am sure he is scum. Appaeals to emotion and fear are noted. Someone hammer this scum

This makes me nervous. Appeals to emotion and fear are not scumtells. You're insistence on using them to get someone lynched is sketchy.

I understand the votes for DK because of his borderline troll behavior. However, it feels like an attempt to muscle through a quicklynch - which you can see in the quotes below -

Claim, DK.

I really am willing to take the risk of DK being a VT. I still can't even fathom his kind of play with his 1000 posts. It doesn't add up.

bothers me a lot. I know I said I would be willing to hammer. I am, if the trolling continues - however, it feels like people are trying to blur the line between a policy lynch and an actual suspicion lynch. Anyone trying to force this lynch through quickly (barring escalation in DK's trolling) is very suspicious.

Okay. Since vote count was messed up, your first reaction if he really was at L-1 would be to play it safe and unvote, does this mean you don't find him scummy, what was the purpose of your vote on the wagon if you weren't ready to lynch?

This is actually a good question.

UNVOTE: Ray Montano
VOTE: CMPunk

For the reasons stated above.

P-edit: responding to this post:

I do not thing fitz is a really dumb wolf, only slightly. Yes, DJ was a bad choice for his fake claim, but it isn't the worst, he gave a mediocre case as to why he didn't actively pursue a DJ lynch. However, what he overlooked, and we all overlooked was the fact that DJ was at L-1 for a brief period of time, which is where the stupidity came in.

Or another scenario (aka fact in this case)..."fitz" could be telling the truth and DJ

is

a wolf and you are fakeclaiming seer. The L-1 situation could have been potentially handled differently but some other things that could have been handled differently might include:

Sky making his "authentic seer" breadcrumbs on D1 prior to getting prompted by Thor on....what was it...D3?
Fitz making his "fake seer" results not be so inconvenient (ie say DJ is town and attack sage leaving out the whole DJ at L-1 complication)
Fitz playing it safe and making his "fake seer" results reflect no controversy (ie no guilty results [sound familiar]).

Things are what they are. I think the lack of a smooth scenario gives more credence to my actions validity.

Also...DK...Sky seems to be growing more suspect in your mind based on your last few posts. If you genuinely feel that way and are not content to ride coat tails I would urge you to unvote me. All the wolves need for the win is Thor deciding my way. I don't see sage flipping since he is town and therefore knows I'm telling the truth. At least you should come to a decision you are sure of before you place your vote. If you have any doubt continue to flesh it out with Thor and/or me.

Yeah... I'ma not flippin now. DJ is such scum and I am very willing to believe your case because you confirmed him as a wolf. Also, I dislike Sky's ISO.


P-edit P-edit: I agree. Unvote, DK, please.

[sageamagoo]

Did anyone else notice Sky mentioned DJ only 3 times in the entire course of this game before day 4?
I have to lol at his description of DJ once he finally notices he exists.

CMPunk- scum. Look at her posts. Look at what she's contributed. Look at how she takes no active stance in this game.
DeityKabuto- scum. Vote flops way too much. Follows others easily. Posts a lot of fluff.
TheFool- scum. Also seems to be taking a less active stance in this game. Latched onto both wagons yesterday. Doesn't like the idea of lynching someone on the wagon.
whispersilk- null scum. Scumhunts, although terribly too slow. Spends too much time with DK. Lacks confidence in actions. Wishes to use others to prove a point.
blindfaeth- null scum. Active scum hunter. I don't like the unvote on CMPunk just because of Thor. Flip flops too much.
havingfitz- null scum. Shadow didn't contribute much. So far he has just tunneled Thor for basic reasons. Need evidence from him.
Thor- null. Prone to tunneling, but with some decent reasons, besides Montano. His argument against blind has some reasoning, like the flip flop reads. There is also a natural progression as to voting blindfaeth.
BBmola- null. nothing outwardly suspicious about this kid other than the fact that he's never here.

don_josh- null. Maybe a smidge town. Same reasons as BBmola. His play style reminds me of myself, so I see him more as town in this light.

Lack of mention says alot to me. Distancing yourself from your partner is scummy.

[Sky]

All I can say is at least I did breadcrumb. What is your insurance that your results would be revealed upon your death? There isn't any. Your argument about convenience and smoothness is totally irrelevant. Lies can always be smooth and truth not so, as well as vice versa so this proves nothing.

sageamagoo, thanks for comparing me to FS who probably posted less than ten times on Day 1 and made little contribution at all. You're obviously confused about distancing. If I was distancing, I wouldn't compare him to myself. Also, I'd probably bus him or something to further get the idea that we are distant, notice I did not do that. Also notice that my read could be due to the fact that he was gone for upwards of about two weeks, and if you don't think that plays a factor when reading somebody you're wrong.

[DonJosh]

Sorry, guys, there's just not much to say at this point in my situation.

[havingfitz]

CMPunk- scum

. Look at her posts. Look at what she's contributed. Look at how she takes no active stance in this game.

DeityKabuto- scum

. Vote flops way too much. Follows others easily. Posts a lot of fluff.

TheFool- scum

. Also seems to be taking a less active stance in this game. Latched onto both wagons yesterday. Doesn't like the idea of lynching someone on the wagon.
whispersilk- null scum. Scumhunts, although terribly too slow. Spends too much time with DK. Lacks confidence in actions. Wishes to use others to prove a point.
blindfaeth- null scum. Active scum hunter. I don't like the unvote on CMPunk just because of Thor. Flip flops too much.
havingfitz- null scum. Shadow didn't contribute much. So far he has just tunneled Thor for basic reasons. Need evidence from him.

Thor- null

. Prone to tunneling, but with some decent reasons, besides Montano. His argument against blind has some reasoning, like the flip flop reads. There is also a natural progression as to voting blindfaeth.
BBmola- null. nothing outwardly suspicious about this kid other than the fact that he's never here.
don_josh- null.

Maybe a smidge town

. Same reasons as BBmola. His play style reminds me of myself, so I see him more as town in this light.

I thought this was interesting....thx for bringing it up sage....you made this post on D2 after you claim to have investigated whisper and before ~investigating Thor on N2. I suppose it is ok to still consider whisper null scum with your ~innocent result on him since you could be inferring that he is still mafia...but why investigate Thor on N2, who you have as null in this D2 quote while you have DM, DK, and TheFool all listed straight up as scum. Why did you investigate nullThor over three scumPlayers? And funny that the only person you refer to as town is DJ. Good stuff.

tl:dr; Sky is a wolf full of BS.

[havingfitz]

EBWOP...
"while you have DM, DK, and TheFool all listed straight up as scum" should have read
"while you have

CM

, DK, and TheFool all listed straight up as scum."

Also, DJ...I would think town being accused of being a wolf would have more interest in the game.

[sageamagoo]

sageamagoo, thanks for comparing me to FS who probably posted less than ten times on Day 1 and made little contribution at all. You're obviously confused about distancing. If I was distancing, I wouldn't compare him to myself. Also, I'd probably bus him or something to further get the idea that we are distant, notice I did not do that. Also notice that my read could be due to the fact that he was gone for upwards of about two weeks, and if you don't think that plays a factor when reading somebody you're wrong.

No, you're the one who made little contribution day one. For a "seer" you really didn't do much scumhunting. You made 15 out of the 480 or so posts day one (not much of a difference from FS). At least FS tried to figure out who was scum for logical reasons instead of saying "OMG! DK is obv-scum! Who cares about anyone else? DK DIES SOON!!!" and then at night, you go all like, "I'll investigate Whisper, even though I haven't mentioned her at all yesterday."

Yep. World's best seer at work. [/sarcasm]


Fitz is the one. Lets lynch sky now.

[sageamagoo]

@sky- you're right that I used the term "distancing" incorrectly, what I meant was that you ignored him for most of the game, so people never really paired you together. Sure, you didn't bus him, but it's not like you made any move to prove your "slight town read" on him (which was the only thing you said all four (I counted this time) times you mentioned him.)

[DeityKabuto]

oh ok anyone cc werewolf?

[sageamagoo]

...man, I just realized that I'm getting really worked up over this. It's just a game...

@DK- I'm not familier with cc used in this context. What's it mean?

[havingfitz]

I believe he means counter claim.

Zzzzzzzzzzz

[Sky]

I thought this was interesting....thx for bringing it up sage....you made this post on D2 after you claim to have investigated whisper and before ~investigating Thor on N2. I suppose it is ok to still consider whisper null scum with your ~innocent result on him since you could be inferring that he is still mafia...but why investigate Thor on N2, who you have as null in this D2 quote while you have DM, DK, and TheFool all listed straight up as scum. Why did you investigate nullThor over three scumPlayers? And funny that the only person you refer to as town is DJ. Good stuff.

tl:dr; Sky is a wolf full of BS.

I've explained this already. Part of my night decisions are finding people who won't end up dead. That being said, Thor was going to be the focus of Day 3, which he was, so naturally I checked him out. And defended him when I got an inno result. That was bad, but such is life.

sageamagoo, thanks for comparing me to FS who probably posted less than ten times on Day 1 and made little contribution at all. You're obviously confused about distancing. If I was distancing, I wouldn't compare him to myself. Also, I'd probably bus him or something to further get the idea that we are distant, notice I did not do that. Also notice that my read could be due to the fact that he was gone for upwards of about two weeks, and if you don't think that plays a factor when reading somebody you're wrong.

No, you're the one who made little contribution day one. For a "seer" you really didn't do much scumhunting. You made 15 out of the 480 or so posts day one (not much of a difference from FS). At least FS tried to figure out who was scum for logical reasons instead of saying "OMG! DK is obv-scum! Who cares about anyone else? DK DIES SOON!!!" and then at night, you go all like, "I'll investigate Whisper, even though I haven't mentioned her at all yesterday."

Yep. World's best seer at work. [/sarcasm]

Fitz is the one. Lets lynch sky now.

You do know that there are various strategies to playing an investigative role? I had to stay under cover. If I seemed like the most pro town player ever, and drawn a lot of attention to myself, guess who would have gotten killed Nigh 1? The seer, and a lot of good that would do. Please observe that Thor and I are also the only two in this game to have never been prodded. Don't call me out on a lack of posts.

@sky- you're right that I used the term "distancing" incorrectly, what I meant was that you ignored him for most of the game, so people never really paired you together. Sure, you didn't bus him, but it's not like you made any move to prove your "slight town read" on him (which was the only thing you said all four (I counted this time) times you mentioned him.)

What don't you understand about the fact DJ was gone for about two weeks with no replacement? Observe also that I spelled his name wrong, with an underscore and everything.

CC means counter claim. I don't know what DK is asking with this.

[havingfitz]

I've explained this already. Part of my night decisions are finding people who won't end up dead. That being said, Thor was going to be the focus of Day 3, which he was, so naturally I checked him out. And defended him when I got an inno result.

That was bad, but such is life.

My sentiments exactly with my failure to hammer DJ yesterday when he was at L-1.

You do know that there are various strategies to playing an investigative role? I had to stay under cover. If I seemed like the most pro town player ever, and drawn a lot of attention to myself, guess who would have gotten killed Nigh 1? The seer, and a lot of good that would do.

Please observe that Thor and I are also the only two in this game to have never been prodded. Don't call me out on a lack of posts.

Again...my sentiments as well in not pressuring DJ to attract your wrath at night.